AD - another campaign that we will lose (Vivec NA)?

doublestuffed

Agrippa_Invisus wrote: »

Juli'St wrote: »

http://imgur.com/a/SNEl1

On Image, the exemple. EP try again the EMP. There is an old saying of war: "To kill the lion stronger, the subject uses the weaker lion."

This is the same morning where at about 8:30 am Central the DC held Faregyl, Roe, and Alessia and were 1 keep away from Emperor as well.

DC is not your friend. EP isn't either. We're just honest about it.

Neither is AD

Juli'St

Juli'St wrote: »

More one time, AD try ASH and more one time, AD lost a home. Some AD work to EP. More one EMP elect for AD at ASH.

http://imgur.com/a/ypgeV

Agrippa

What you say? (right now in Vivec)

Agrippa_Invisus

Juli'St wrote: »

Juli'St wrote: »

More one time, AD try ASH and more one time, AD lost a home. Some AD work to EP. More one EMP elect for AD at ASH.

http://imgur.com/a/ypgeV

Agrippa

What you say? (right now in Vivec)

As I said before. EP isn't your friend. If we're strong enough to crown, we will. If not, we don't.

After the crowning, the best thing you could do for your own points earnings is get Roe/Nik back asap, take Ash, and then push Rayles/Glade. Let EP grab Warden and NiMohk and take Alma Ruma for yourselves and then gatecamp DC.

That kneecaps DC and keeps EP busy. Suddenly you're pushing closer to second.

AD's not getting first this campaign. The thing to do that's in your own best interest is to take the easier path to second, which is to stick a knife in DC and catch up to their lower score.

Juli'St

Agrippa_Invisus wrote: »

Juli'St wrote: »

Juli'St wrote: »

More one time, AD try ASH and more one time, AD lost a home. Some AD work to EP. More one EMP elect for AD at ASH.

http://imgur.com/a/ypgeV

Agrippa

What you say? (right now in Vivec)

As I said before. EP isn't your friend. If we're strong enough to crown, we will. If not, we don't.

After the crowning, the best thing you could do for your own points earnings is get Roe/Nik back asap, take Ash, and then push Rayles/Glade. Let EP grab Warden and NiMohk and take Alma Ruma for yourselves and then gatecamp DC.

That kneecaps DC and keeps EP busy. Suddenly you're pushing closer to second.

Sure, i understand this. But, here i talk about AD strategy and tatic's.

antihero727

Juli'St wrote: »

Agrippa and Vapirko

Dont make mistakes about this topic. Idea here is to be constructive and not to the contrary.

Here I speak of strategy, principles - inclusive. Hence the images and, as in a diary, as in a diary, what has been happening in Cyrodiil at this time.

Of course, for AD to advance, will have to make a certain 'pact' with DC - after all, it is DC to play second place. AD is completely OUT of the dispute, with a ridiculous score. Attacking DC, at that moment, is a brutal, childish, 'silly' mistake. If AD intends to advance his score, as things stand today in Cyrodiil, he will have to draw a limit on his actions to Nikel and not advance to ASH.

DC continues with a large population on the server, although many have moved to Sotha. I think the last week has been enlightening and definitely proves what you are saying here.

The issue is that if it isn't your opinion it's wrong.

Agrippa_Invisus

Juli'St wrote: »

Agrippa_Invisus wrote: »

Juli'St wrote: »

Juli'St wrote: »

More one time, AD try ASH and more one time, AD lost a home. Some AD work to EP. More one EMP elect for AD at ASH.

http://imgur.com/a/ypgeV

Agrippa

What you say? (right now in Vivec)

As I said before. EP isn't your friend. If we're strong enough to crown, we will. If not, we don't.

After the crowning, the best thing you could do for your own points earnings is get Roe/Nik back asap, take Ash, and then push Rayles/Glade. Let EP grab Warden and NiMohk and take Alma Ruma for yourselves and then gatecamp DC.

That kneecaps DC and keeps EP busy. Suddenly you're pushing closer to second.

Sure, i understand this. But, here i talk about AD strategy and tatic's.

Let me restate then. My previous post was in the context of : "If Agrippa was an AD guild/raid leader". I'm not, obviously, but if I was that's what I'd do.

Juli'St

ASH and the resulted - again and again and again and again

AD elect more one EMP

http://imgur.com/a/qUdBj

Juli'St

After EMP, EP try Fare

http://imgur.com/a/7irLk

So, i cant say more nothing, AD, literally, are completelly desmoralized. Bad strategy...

Juli'St

So, now who read this topic understand WHY AD NEED a 'pact' with DC to make something?

Need more 'pictures'?

Iskras know strategy, Iskras know yor faction, like u or not this fact! :P

Juli'St

Resulted about bad strategy, bad ideas (ASH, again):

http://imgur.com/a/cLNHe

Crispen_Longbow

The problem is you can’t expect people to care about winning a campaign when they have no control over winning.

It’s been over 3 years since this game was released. Every campaign win boils down to who has the strongest guilds playing in non-primetime hours. It’s that simple. If AD wants to win the campaign you need a Strong Night and Day crew. That’s all it takes. Most of us realized this years ago so we don’t play to win the campaign. We just have fun when it’s our time to play.

If ZOS wants to move in a direction of caring about campaign wins, create 3 subsets of scoring.

1. Primetime Scoring (5 PM EST – 1 AM EST)
2. Night Scoring (1 AM EST – 9 AM EST)
3. Day Scoring (9 AM EST – 5 PM EST)

You still gain AP, Leaderboards, capture keeps, resources etc the same way it works now, none of this would change. Instead of 1 overall campaign win break it up into 3 separate time blocks. If you are a primetime player you choose which campaign and which 8 hour block you would like to sign up for. This 8 hour block is tied to your reward. You can still play 24/7 but you just choose which timeframe you want to receive rewards for.

It would be even better to automatically put you in the time zone you play the most. Let’s pretend that EP has overwhelming day crew that caps the map with basically no resistance for 8 hours. EP players see that they have a dominate presence in the day. So the EP players that only care about getting a reward would natural just choose to be part of the “Day Crew” score campaign even though that’s not the majority of time where they play during the campaign. By automatically assigning you to an 8 hour block of where you played the most during the campaign would stop this type of behavior.

I believe this would be a step in the right direction to start getting people to care about campaign wins.

Back to your original point, If you want AD to win the campaign, just start building or recruiting guilds for Day and Night. That is the “Strategy” you need to win the campaign.

Juli'St

Crispen_Longbow wrote: »

The problem is you can’t expect people to care about winning a campaign when they have no control over winning.

It’s been over 3 years since this game was released. Every campaign win boils down to who has the strongest guilds playing in non-primetime hours. It’s that simple. If AD wants to win the campaign you need a Strong Night and Day crew. That’s all it takes. Most of us realized this years ago so we don’t play to win the campaign. We just have fun when it’s our time to play.

If ZOS wants to move in a direction of caring about campaign wins, create 3 subsets of scoring.

1. Primetime Scoring (5 PM EST – 1 AM EST)
2. Night Scoring (1 AM EST – 9 AM EST)
3. Day Scoring (9 AM EST – 5 PM EST)

You still gain AP, Leaderboards, capture keeps, resources etc the same way it works now, none of this would change. Instead of 1 overall campaign win break it up into 3 separate time blocks. If you are a primetime player you choose which campaign and which 8 hour block you would like to sign up for. This 8 hour block is tied to your reward. You can still play 24/7 but you just choose which timeframe you want to receive rewards for.

It would be even better to automatically put you in the time zone you play the most. Let’s pretend that EP has overwhelming day crew that caps the map with basically no resistance for 8 hours. EP players see that they have a dominate presence in the day. So the EP players that only care about getting a reward would natural just choose to be part of the “Day Crew” score campaign even though that’s not the majority of time where they play during the campaign. By automatically assigning you to an 8 hour block of where you played the most during the campaign would stop this type of behavior.

I believe this would be a step in the right direction to start getting people to care about campaign wins.

Back to your original point, If you want AD to win the campaign, just start building or recruiting guilds for Day and Night. That is the “Strategy” you need to win the campaign.

"Back to your original point, If you want AD to win the campaign, just start building or recruiting guilds for Day and Night. That is the “Strategy” you need to win the campaign."

Yes, in general, to beguine win something. Ty for advance.

Satiar

Come into a thread and see @Agrippa_Invisus talking Bloodthorne, what year is this??!

Agrippa_Invisus

Satiar wrote: »

Come into a thread and see @Agrippa_Invisus talking Bloodthorne, what year is this??!

It's 2017.

For more details, see: https://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/

Ilpagliaccio

It's still 1971 to me, damn it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0rdF7o08KXw

Juli'St

More one time, more one fail...more 'the same'...

http://imgur.com/a/lVgZv

After the disgraceful performance this morning (my schedule - something around 6 hours ago) AD manages to regain FARE - me and another small group of ppls, we resume FARE. And it was from this that AD managed to make bigger jumps, first, ROE, then Alessia and so on. Everything was going well until, when we conquered the North EP, DC had taken King and Farragut - leaving free Arrius and Chalman (where our scroll is) so we could take, however, greed prevailed.

DC picked up one of the EP scrolls and a group of ADs simply decided to forget Chalman and follow the EP scroll. Result, all were annihilated (AD) and we lost the first chance to regain our scroll.

We lost Nikel and Brindle at the same time.

AD needs to understand, to conquer something, will have to make pacts - at this point with DC.

Agrippa_Invisus

Juli'St wrote: »

More one time, more one fail...more 'the same'...

http://imgur.com/a/lVgZv

After the disgraceful performance this morning (my schedule - something around 6 hours ago) AD manages to regain FARE - me and another small group of ppls, we resume FARE. And it was from this that AD managed to make bigger jumps, first, ROE, then Alessia and so on. Everything was going well until, when we conquered the North EP, DC had taken King and Farragut - leaving free Arrius and Chalman (where our scroll is) so we could take, however, greed prevailed.

DC picked up one of the EP scrolls and a group of ADs simply decided to forget Chalman and follow the EP scroll. Result, all were annihilated (AD) and we lost the first chance to regain our scroll.

We lost Nikel and Brindle at the same time.

AD needs to understand, to conquer something, will have to make pacts - at this point with DC.

Really committed to that third place finish, eh?

DC are not your friends, nor your ally. They will soak your faction for points any day of the week. How often are Brindle and Roe blue while AD pounds away at Sejanus or BRK?

Juli'St

...and that mistakes at EP scroll make more and more bad consequences:

http://imgur.com/a/Nizp5

We lose BB and the chance to lose our last scroll.

Juli'St

Agrippa_Invisus wrote: »

Juli'St wrote: »

More one time, more one fail...more 'the same'...

http://imgur.com/a/lVgZv

After the disgraceful performance this morning (my schedule - something around 6 hours ago) AD manages to regain FARE - me and another small group of ppls, we resume FARE. And it was from this that AD managed to make bigger jumps, first, ROE, then Alessia and so on. Everything was going well until, when we conquered the North EP, DC had taken King and Farragut - leaving free Arrius and Chalman (where our scroll is) so we could take, however, greed prevailed.

DC picked up one of the EP scrolls and a group of ADs simply decided to forget Chalman and follow the EP scroll. Result, all were annihilated (AD) and we lost the first chance to regain our scroll.

We lost Nikel and Brindle at the same time.

AD needs to understand, to conquer something, will have to make pacts - at this point with DC.

Really committed to that third place finish, eh?

DC are not your friends, nor your ally. They will soak your faction for points any day of the week. How often are Brindle and Roe blue while AD pounds away at Sejanus or BRK?

I know this. The German no was friend from Russia in 1939, but Russia made a pact of 'non-aggression' in order to transfer its industry to the Caucasus. This - this non-aggression pact - gave time for the Russians to reorganize and defeat the German offensive in Stalingrad and Moscow (Germany reached 45 km from Moscow).

Just to illustrate.

Agrippa_Invisus

Juli'St wrote: »

Agrippa_Invisus wrote: »

Juli'St wrote: »

More one time, more one fail...more 'the same'...

http://imgur.com/a/lVgZv

After the disgraceful performance this morning (my schedule - something around 6 hours ago) AD manages to regain FARE - me and another small group of ppls, we resume FARE. And it was from this that AD managed to make bigger jumps, first, ROE, then Alessia and so on. Everything was going well until, when we conquered the North EP, DC had taken King and Farragut - leaving free Arrius and Chalman (where our scroll is) so we could take, however, greed prevailed.

DC picked up one of the EP scrolls and a group of ADs simply decided to forget Chalman and follow the EP scroll. Result, all were annihilated (AD) and we lost the first chance to regain our scroll.

We lost Nikel and Brindle at the same time.

AD needs to understand, to conquer something, will have to make pacts - at this point with DC.

Really committed to that third place finish, eh?

DC are not your friends, nor your ally. They will soak your faction for points any day of the week. How often are Brindle and Roe blue while AD pounds away at Sejanus or BRK?

I know this. The German no was friend from Russia in 1939, but Russia made a pact of 'non-aggression' in order to transfer its industry to the Caucasus. This - this non-aggression pact - gave time for the Russians to reorganize and defeat the German offensive in Stalingrad and Moscow (Germany reached 45 km from Moscow).

Just to illustrate.

Wait, did you just non-ironically quote Ribbentrop - Molotov pact from Pre-WW2?

I... can't... even...

Oh, and Comrade Stalin, your gates are open. Right now.

Juli'St

At last, finally, after a mistakes sequence:

http://imgur.com/a/OVjh6

AD need another direction, need new lead's, new people and this people need care about your own faction.

Satiar

While Agrippa is correct about DC not being ADs friend, I don't agree on strategy. I've won quite a few campaigns by teaming up on first place team and pounding them into third. Beating up on 2nd place faction gets you 2nd place, not first. Playing to win means bringing down first place point gain to where it can be caught.

Of course, the current first place faction would rather you all fight for who gets 2nd place

Agrippa_Invisus

Satiar wrote: »

While Agrippa is correct about DC not being ADs friend, I don't agree on strategy. I've won quite a few campaigns by teaming up on first place team and pounding them into third. Beating up on 2nd place faction gets you 2nd place, not first. Playing to win means bringing down first place point gain to where it can be caught.

Of course, the current first place faction would rather you all fight for who gets 2nd place

In a tight race, you might be correct. It's not tight, though. As I napkin-mathed earlier, it takes nearly double the earnings differential between AD and EP than it does with AD to DC.

Sometimes you are stuck with a non-winning position. The most self-interested course of action at that point is to assure as high a ranking as is reasonably possible to insure additional gold and item rewards across the entire faction, and the pride of not being last place.

Satiar

Agrippa_Invisus wrote: »

Satiar wrote: »

While Agrippa is correct about DC not being ADs friend, I don't agree on strategy. I've won quite a few campaigns by teaming up on first place team and pounding them into third. Beating up on 2nd place faction gets you 2nd place, not first. Playing to win means bringing down first place point gain to where it can be caught.

Of course, the current first place faction would rather you all fight for who gets 2nd place

In a tight race, you might be correct. It's not tight, though. As I napkin-mathed earlier, it takes nearly double the earnings differential between AD and EP than it does with AD to DC.

Sometimes you are stuck with a non-winning position. The most self-interested course of action at that point is to assure as high a ranking as is reasonably possible to insure additional gold and item rewards across the entire faction, and the pride of not being last place.

I've never fought for second place, the logic doesn't appeal to me

But, I suppose that'll have to wait for next time. I'm still surprised EP has been so active during patch launch. Normally at least the guilds take a break to grind.

Agrippa_Invisus

Satiar wrote: »

Agrippa_Invisus wrote: »

Satiar wrote: »

While Agrippa is correct about DC not being ADs friend, I don't agree on strategy. I've won quite a few campaigns by teaming up on first place team and pounding them into third. Beating up on 2nd place faction gets you 2nd place, not first. Playing to win means bringing down first place point gain to where it can be caught.

Of course, the current first place faction would rather you all fight for who gets 2nd place

In a tight race, you might be correct. It's not tight, though. As I napkin-mathed earlier, it takes nearly double the earnings differential between AD and EP than it does with AD to DC.

Sometimes you are stuck with a non-winning position. The most self-interested course of action at that point is to assure as high a ranking as is reasonably possible to insure additional gold and item rewards across the entire faction, and the pride of not being last place.

I've never fought for second place, the logic doesn't appeal to me

But, I suppose that'll have to wait for next time. I'm still surprised EP has been so active during patch launch. Normally at least the guilds take a break to grind.

Remind me to invite you to poker then.

You can't win every hand. Sometimes you cut your losses and move on.

Satiar

Agrippa_Invisus wrote: »

Satiar wrote: »

Agrippa_Invisus wrote: »

Satiar wrote: »

While Agrippa is correct about DC not being ADs friend, I don't agree on strategy. I've won quite a few campaigns by teaming up on first place team and pounding them into third. Beating up on 2nd place faction gets you 2nd place, not first. Playing to win means bringing down first place point gain to where it can be caught.

Of course, the current first place faction would rather you all fight for who gets 2nd place

In a tight race, you might be correct. It's not tight, though. As I napkin-mathed earlier, it takes nearly double the earnings differential between AD and EP than it does with AD to DC.

Sometimes you are stuck with a non-winning position. The most self-interested course of action at that point is to assure as high a ranking as is reasonably possible to insure additional gold and item rewards across the entire faction, and the pride of not being last place.

I've never fought for second place, the logic doesn't appeal to me

But, I suppose that'll have to wait for next time. I'm still surprised EP has been so active during patch launch. Normally at least the guilds take a break to grind.

Remind me to invite you to poker then.

You can't win every hand. Sometimes you cut your losses and move on.

i remember a much stronger spirit of defiance when I fought for ya in Bloodthorne!

Some Things are just not meant to be, but epic wins do not arise from favourable circumstances. If there's one place to take the risk and make the unlikely play, it's in a computer game !.... not when I'm playing for rent money

Juli'St

"about DC not being ADs friend"

No one are discussing who is or not friend here, i talk about strategy and tatic, take advantage of a particular situation to try something. What I've been posting here proves and proves every single word of mine, simple.

Agrippa_Invisus

Satiar wrote: »

Agrippa_Invisus wrote: »

Satiar wrote: »

Agrippa_Invisus wrote: »

Satiar wrote: »

While Agrippa is correct about DC not being ADs friend, I don't agree on strategy. I've won quite a few campaigns by teaming up on first place team and pounding them into third. Beating up on 2nd place faction gets you 2nd place, not first. Playing to win means bringing down first place point gain to where it can be caught.

Of course, the current first place faction would rather you all fight for who gets 2nd place

In a tight race, you might be correct. It's not tight, though. As I napkin-mathed earlier, it takes nearly double the earnings differential between AD and EP than it does with AD to DC.

Sometimes you are stuck with a non-winning position. The most self-interested course of action at that point is to assure as high a ranking as is reasonably possible to insure additional gold and item rewards across the entire faction, and the pride of not being last place.

I've never fought for second place, the logic doesn't appeal to me

But, I suppose that'll have to wait for next time. I'm still surprised EP has been so active during patch launch. Normally at least the guilds take a break to grind.

Remind me to invite you to poker then.

You can't win every hand. Sometimes you cut your losses and move on.

i remember a much stronger spirit of defiance when I fought for ya in Bloodthorne!

Some Things are just not meant to be, but epic wins do not arise from favourable circumstances. If there's one place to take the risk and make the unlikely play, it's in a computer game !.... not when I'm playing for rent money

I'm also the commander who, on the last day of Thornblade season 2, threw a DC scroll into the middle of an AD raid. Giving away 15 points per hour saved us dozens more as we retained our home scrolls and regained our home keeps as the two fell into infighting.

Sometimes you make sacrifices now to make gains later, or retain more important ground.

That's not lack of defiance, that's knowing the value of what you have.

And trust me, on Bloodthorn, I knew we weren't getting 1st place. We were mathematically eliminated weeks before the end of the campaign.

Satiar

Agrippa_Invisus wrote: »

Satiar wrote: »

Agrippa_Invisus wrote: »

Satiar wrote: »

Agrippa_Invisus wrote: »

Satiar wrote: »

While Agrippa is correct about DC not being ADs friend, I don't agree on strategy. I've won quite a few campaigns by teaming up on first place team and pounding them into third. Beating up on 2nd place faction gets you 2nd place, not first. Playing to win means bringing down first place point gain to where it can be caught.

Of course, the current first place faction would rather you all fight for who gets 2nd place

In a tight race, you might be correct. It's not tight, though. As I napkin-mathed earlier, it takes nearly double the earnings differential between AD and EP than it does with AD to DC.

Sometimes you are stuck with a non-winning position. The most self-interested course of action at that point is to assure as high a ranking as is reasonably possible to insure additional gold and item rewards across the entire faction, and the pride of not being last place.

I've never fought for second place, the logic doesn't appeal to me

But, I suppose that'll have to wait for next time. I'm still surprised EP has been so active during patch launch. Normally at least the guilds take a break to grind.

Remind me to invite you to poker then.

You can't win every hand. Sometimes you cut your losses and move on.

i remember a much stronger spirit of defiance when I fought for ya in Bloodthorne!

Some Things are just not meant to be, but epic wins do not arise from favourable circumstances. If there's one place to take the risk and make the unlikely play, it's in a computer game !.... not when I'm playing for rent money

I'm also the commander who, on the last day of Thornblade season 2, threw a DC scroll into the middle of an AD raid. Giving away 15 points per hour saved us dozens more as we retained our home scrolls and regained our home keeps as the two fell into infighting.

Sometimes you make sacrifices now to make gains later, or retain more important ground.

That's not lack of defiance, that's knowing the value of what you have.

And trust me, on Bloodthorn, I knew we weren't getting 1st place. We were mathematically eliminated weeks before the end of the campaign.

Giving that scroll away was good tactics, ive happily let EP keep dc scrolls when we're behind because it's a strong pug magnet.

Anyways. Once you're eliminated you're eliminated. But I'll never fault someone for making an effort before than. Hell, the last time I lost a campaign I came third making sure the faction I hated came second. Striving for second place is just.... ugh. Really only if you're completely eliminated and have no chance, or if the pride is just hurting that bad.

Juli'St

Satiar, Agrippa

...dont forghet AD here...4rd place... oups, dont have 4rd