Skill Point Exploit & Account Suspensions

out51d3r

Montayva wrote: »

My personal case is beyond the point here. The issue in this matter is the blanket ban Zos did, which affected MANY innocent parties, and the lack of thought and effort on ZOSs part put into solving issues on cheaters and exploiters.

I agree. I'm pointing to your case alot because you actually supply some proof. There's no doubt in my mind that the issue extends beyond you.

Gruffysb16_ESO

Ackwalan wrote: »

I'm not buying it, and neither did ZOS:

[snip]

The Ban has made no difference to me at all, what concerns me most is the fact that they knew about this issue, did nothing about it for a week and made no attempt to advise the community.

[Edit for Flaming]

Ackwalan

Gruffysb16_ESO wrote: »

Ackwalan wrote: »

I'm not buying it, and neither did ZOS:

[snip]

The Ban has made no difference to me at all, what concerns me most is the fact that they knew about this issue, did nothing about it for a week and made no attempt to advise the community.

So you abused it till it was fixed. You can try to justify your actions, but I'm not buying it.

[Edit to match quoted content]

Gruffysb16_ESO

Ackwalan wrote: »

Gruffysb16_ESO wrote: »

Ackwalan wrote: »

I'm not buying it, and neither did ZOS:

[snip]

The Ban has made no difference to me at all, what concerns me most is the fact that they knew about this issue, did nothing about it for a week and made no attempt to advise the community.

So you abused it till it was fixed. You can try to justify your actions, but I'm not buying it.

You obviously haven't read anything I've posted or linked and that's fine Ackwalan you can simply be wrong, I don't have to justify myself to you.

[Edit to match quoted content]

MajBludd

I understand peoples skepticism to those that say they did nothing wrong. It is because of the lack of any real responsibility from ZOS to handle these situations in a logically manner.

You had and have peoples using CE that go unpunished or their bans are quickly lifted even after we have seen them exploit, cheat, etc from videos to themake admitting it themselves.

This has forced people to take one side or the other rather then listening and waiting for the outcome of the investigation to decide if somebody is guilty or has unknowingly exploited, as is the case with many players with this bug.

All I can say is if you have never cheated or exploited and despise those that do, I hope never to see you be banned or suspended for something like this issue. So, you don't have to hear people judge you as a liar a cheat. When you know for a fact you are not.

Gruffysb16_ESO

MajBludd wrote: »

I understand peoples skepticism to those that say they did nothing wrong. It is because of the lack of any real responsibility from ZOS to handle these situations in a logically manner.

You had and have peoples using CE that go unpunished or their bans are quickly lifted even after we have seen them exploit, cheat, etc from videos to themake admitting it themselves.

This has forced people to take one side or the other rather then listening and waiting for the outcome of the investigation to decide if somebody is guilty or has unknowingly exploited, as is the case with many players with this bug.

All I can say is if you have never cheated or exploited and despise those that do, I hope never to see you be banned or suspended for something like this issue. So, you don't have to hear people judge you as a liar a cheat. When you know for a fact you are not.

I agree MajBludd, I couldn't have said it better myself.

Arch_White

DoShazarr wrote: »

Arch_White wrote: »

Congrats to all that had their suspension lifted, mine apparently will not be lifted. Moral of the story: If you find an exploit, you might as well overly abuse it because you will be suspended and quite possibly not unsuspended regardless of what you do.

Wow I can't even...

Has it ever occurred to you that perhaps reporting it yourself would be a better option?

Do people even know that if they find a bug (that they unintentionally exploited) and report it, ZoS will actually thank them?

I just don't understand this kind of thinking lol.

How did you get all the way to my comment without reading that people did exactly that and were still suspended?
You don't understand because you haven't read the entire thread.

Cêltic421

hope they were sent an email or they might not even notice lol[/quote]

Lol right. Start the suspension when they first attempt to log back in lol than they will notice.

Aurie

ManwithBeard9 wrote: »

Yarlenzey wrote: »

If it can be used in-game, then it isn't cheating.

If an error is AVAILABLE in game - then hire more people to create a higher quality product in the first place
Revise your procedures before releasing flawed software and don't penalise players who used the product AS IT WAS DELIVERED.

It would be more appropriate to suspend your staff without pay for three day.
How is this not obvious to you? Why is this the player's fault?

Read the ToS

Right. So here is the small print....aka Terms of Service.


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ZeniMax reserves the right to change the price for any Purchased Virtual Currency or to bundle Purchased Virtual Currency in any amount with other Services or access to other Services at any time and without providing notice to You. You will have no right to a refund as a result of any change in the price or bundling at which Purchase Virtual Currency can be obtained, subject only to the Statutory Obligations (as defined in Section 1). In the case of Complimentary Virtual Currency, ZeniMax reserves the right to change or limit the amount of Complimentary Virtual Currency granted as part of any ongoing or continuous promotion, to discontinue any promotion or to bundle Complimentary Virtual Currency in any amount with other Services or access to other Services at any time and without providing notice to You.

Virtual Currency is not transferable to, or redeemable for, any sum of real currency or monetary value from ZeniMax or any other person at any time. ZeniMax prohibits, and does not recognize any purported, transfers, sales, gifts, or trades of Virtual Currency. Virtual Currency will only be used by You to obtain virtual goods within a Game (e.g., durable goods that become part of Your inventory in the Game and consumable or single use items that are used and expire after use within the Game) or other Downloadable Content, through one or more Services, as determined by ZeniMax in its sole discretion. You agree not to sell or transfer, or assist others in selling or transferring Virtual Currencies or any amounts thereof. Evidence of any attempt to use, sell or transfer Virtual Currency in any manner that violates these Terms of Service may result in revocation, termination, or cancellation of the Virtual Currency and/or Your use of the Services without refund and/or immediate suspension or termination of Your Account.



3. Limited License to Use

Subject to the terms in these Terms of Service and Your compliance with all of the terms and conditions in these Terms of Service, ZeniMax grants to You, for Your personal and private use only, a non-exclusive, revocable, nontransferable license to use Services (including any Content which is made available by ZeniMax (including but not limited to Game Mods that You download from a ZeniMax website) as a part of a Service and then solely in connection with such Service) as set forth in these Terms of Service.

You may not (a) distribute, publicly perform or display, sell, transmit, publish, edit, reproduce, sublicense, rent, lease, loan or otherwise transfer any Game, Software, and/or Content, including without limitation any access keys; (b) modify, adapt, reverse engineer or decompile the Software, or otherwise attempt to derive source code from the Software; (c) create any derivative works based upon any Services; (d) otherwise use any Services except as expressly provided in these Terms of Service; (e) copy or download any Software or Content unless the Content is a Game Mod available for download from a ZeniMax website or is Downloadable Content (other than Virtual Currency) or You are otherwise expressly authorized to do so in writing by ZeniMax; and/or (f) remove, obscure, or alter copyright, patent, trademark, or other proprietary rights notices affixed to any Services. Any commercial use is prohibited absent written permission by an authorized representative of ZeniMax.

ZeniMax actively enforces its intellectual property rights to the fullest extent of the law. If You are found to engage or facilitate the engagement of infringing and/or illegal activity, including, but not limited to, making unauthorized copies and/or distributing Services, ZeniMax may in its sole discretion restrict, suspend, or terminate Your Account or Your access to some or any Services, and/or pursue further legal action against You. Please note that these activities may constitute civil wrongs and/or criminal offenses and ZeniMax reserves the right to take such action as appropriate in the circumstances. You agree to reimburse ZeniMax for any liabilities, damages, losses, costs and expenses incurred by or suffered by ZeniMax arising from or related to any attempted or actual unauthorized or illegal conduct by You, or through the use of Your Account as more particularly described in Section 13.

ZeniMax reserves title to the Services and all rights to any Services not specifically granted under these Terms of Service, including without limitation all rights of reproduction, modification, distribution, display, disassembly and decompilation and all copyright, patent, trademark, trade secret, and other proprietary rights and interests. Your use of Services is subject to the intellectual property rights of ZeniMax and except for the express licenses granted in the first paragraph of this Section 3, ZeniMax does not grant You any licenses or rights to patents or other intellectual property. Content, Software and Games are licensed, not sold, to You.

All Services and all intellectual property rights in the Services are owned by ZeniMax or its licensors and are protected by United States, other jurisdictions, and international copyright, trade dress, patent, and trademark laws, international conventions, and other laws protecting intellectual property and related proprietary rights.

With the exception of the first paragraph of this Section 3, this Section 3 shall survive the termination of these Terms of Service.

ZeniMax may, in its discretion, make available to You one or more application programming interfaces and associated documentation (each an "API") to allow You to create, download, enable, use, or associate Content (excluding Game Mods), that modifies or otherwise provides enhanced features to the user interface ("Add-ons") for a Game. The API and Add-ons are Software for purposes of these Terms of Service and are subject to these Terms of Service and the Supplemental Terms applicable to the API and the Add-Ons. Notwithstanding anything to the contrary in these Terms of Service, if the Supplemental Terms for an API or Add-on directly conflict with specific terms and conditions in these Terms of Service or any other Supplemental Terms, the Supplemental Terms for an API or Add-on will control, but solely for purpose of the specific API and Add-on and not for any other purpose.

4. Beta Tests

In its sole discretion, ZeniMax may contact You to review and evaluate, or playtest, one or more Games, aspects of Games, or online features prior to commercial release for the purpose of identifying program errors and obtaining feedback. You will be asked to provide to ZeniMax certain feedback and suggestions regarding Your evaluation of the Game(s) or feature(s). Your participation is subject to these Terms of Service and other applicable Supplemental Terms, such as a beta testing agreement and a non-disclosure agreement.

By accepting our invitation and playtesting the Game and/or features, You also agree that to the extent permitted by law: (i) playing an unreleased Game is at Your own risk and You understand that the Game and/or Game features may include known or unknown bugs, (ii) any value or status indicators that You achieve through any playtest may be erased at any time, including, but not limited to, upon commercial release; and (iii) ZeniMax has no obligation to make these Games or features available, or available without charge or to fix errors or bugs identified by You.

Beta Test accounts are non-transferable under any circumstances.

5. Paid Services

Some Services require payment of a fee. You must have an Account and pay the applicable fees to participate in those Services. For information about subscription fees, membership fees and other fees for particular Services, visit Your particular Service's product page or Customer Services at support.bethsoft.com.

FEES ARE PAYABLE IN ADVANCE AND, EXCEPT AS OTHERWISE REQUIRED BY APPLICABLE LAW AND SUBJECT TO THE STATUTORY OBLIGATIONS (AS DEFINED IN SECTION 1), ARE NOT REFUNDABLE IN WHOLE OR IN PART.

ZeniMax reserves the right to change the fees or billing methods at any time upon notice to You through Your Account. If You pay a periodic (e.g., monthly) subscription or membership fee for a Service, ZeniMax will provide You with at least thirty (30) days advance notice of any such changes. Your continued use of the Service thirty (30) days or more after ZeniMax provides such notice of the changes means that You accept such changes. If any change is unacceptable to You, You may cancel Your subscription or membership at any time with such termination being effective at the end of the then-current subscription or membership period for which You previously paid, but ZeniMax will not refund any fees or prorate fees for any subscription or membership except as prohibited by applicable law and subject to the Statutory Obligations (as defined in Section 1).

If Your use of the Services is subject to applicable governmental charges (including but not limited to sales tax, value added tax (VAT), goods and service tax (GST) or other taxes), then You must pay for those charges. Your total price may include such governmental charges or such governmental charges may be separately identified from Your Paid Service(s) fees as shown during the payment process. Failure to invoice You for any such charges does not relieve You of the liability to pay such charges.

As the Account holder, You are responsible for all charges incurred on Your Account, including, but not limited to, applicable taxes, and all purchases made by You or anyone that uses Your Account, including, but not limited to, Your family or friends.

Payment Options for Your Services.

Subscribers/Members in North America, South America, or Asia (including Australia and New Zealand but excluding India). If You reside in North America, South America, or Asia (including Australia and New Zealand but excluding India) and purchase Services from ZeniMax, then You must pay fees using the payment methods made available by ZeniMax for the particular Service (the "Payment Methods") and You agree to the terms and conditions applicable to each Payment Method You choose. Payment Methods may vary by Service and the terms of Your subscription or membership will be in Your Account details. When You provide credit card or other Payment Method information to Bethesda, You represent to Bethesda that You are the authorized user of the credit card or other Payment Method. You must provide current, complete, and accurate information for Your billing account. You must promptly update all information to keep Your billing account current, complete, and accurate (such as a change in billing address, credit card number, or credit card expiration date), and You must promptly notify Bethesda if Your credit card or other Payment Method is canceled (for example, for loss, theft, or expiration). Changes to Your Payment Method information can be made by contacting Customer Services at support.bethsoft.com.

Some Payment Methods require or permit you to choose automatic renewal of Your subscription or membership. In such cases, You are agreeing to permit Bethesda to automatically charge Your credit card, bank card, debit card or other Payment Method associated with Your Account for an automatic renewal of Your current subscription or membership preferences to the applicable Service. You may cancel Your subscription or membership at any time with the termination being effective at the end of the then-current subscription or membership period by revising Your selection in Your Accounts page, or contacting Customer Services at support.bethsoft.com. In order to sign up for automatic renewal, You must keep a valid credit card number or other Payment Method number or information associated with Your Account. Your subscription and membership will automatically renew on the expiration date of the then-current subscription or membership term that You previously subscribed to or were a member of, at a fee no greater than Bethesda's then-current price at the time of renewal, excluding any promotional and discount pricing, unless You cancel Your subscription or membership. To the extent permitted by applicable law, if You have subscribed or registered for or requested an automatic subscription or membership renewal, You agree that Bethesda may charge you or may continue charging You on an automatic recurring basis for Your current subscription or membership preferences unless You cancel Your subscription or membership at least thirty (30) days prior to the expiration of the subscription or membership. If You have subscribed for an automatic subscription or membership renewal but do not have a valid credit card and/or other valid Payment Method information on file and Your subscription or membership expires, You will not be able to receive the benefits associated with the subscription (e.g., resume Game play or any paid Services usage) or membership benefits without updating Your Payment Method information. Bethesda reserves the right to utilize third party credit card updating services to obtain current expiration dates on credit cards provided by You to Bethesda. Customers who use a third party Payment Method may incur additional payment processing fees charged by such third party to its customers, and may not be able to automatically renew subscriptions or memberships.

All Other Subscribers/Members of All Territories Not Specified Above. If You reside outside North America, South America, or Asia (including Australia and New Zealand but excluding India) and purchase Services from ZeniMax, then You must pay fees using the payment methods made available by ZeniMax for the particular Service (the "Payment Methods"), and You agree to the terms and conditions applicable to each Payment Method You choose. Payment Methods may vary by Service and the terms of Your subscription or membership will be in Your Account details. When You provide credit card or other Payment Method information to ZEL, You represent to ZEL that You are the authorized user of the credit card or other Payment Method. You must provide current, complete, and accurate information for Your billing account. You must promptly update all information to keep Your billing account current, complete, and accurate (such as a change in billing address, credit card number, or credit card expiration date), and You must promptly notify ZEL if Your credit card or other Payment Method is canceled (for example, for loss, theft, or expiration). Changes to Your Payment Method information can be made by contacting Customer Services at support.bethsoft.com.

You may choose automatic renewal of Your subscription or membership. If You choose this option, You have agreed to permit ZEL to automatically charge Your credit card or other Payment Method associated with Your Account for an automatic renewal of Your current subscription or membership preferences to the applicable Service. You may cancel Your subscription or membership at any time with the termination being effective at the end of the then-current subscription or membership period by revising Your selection in Your Accounts page, or contacting Customer Services at support.bethsoft.com. In order to sign up for automatic renewal, You must keep a valid credit card number or other Payment Method number or information associated with Your Account. Your subscription or membership will automatically renew on the expiration date of the then-current subscription or membership term You previously subscribed to at a fee no greater than ZEL's then-current price at the time of renewal, excluding any promotional and discount pricing, unless You cancel Your subscription or membership. If You have subscribed for or requested an automatic subscription or membership renewal, You agree that ZEL may continue charging You on an automatic recurring basis for Your current subscription or membership preferences unless You cancel Your subscription or membership at least thirty (30) days prior to the expiration of the subscription or membership. If You have subscribed for or requested an automatic subscription or membership renewal but do not have a valid credit card and/or other valid Payment Method information on file and Your subscription or membership expires, You will not be able to receive the benefits of the subscription (e.g., resume Game play or any paid Services usage) or membership without updating Your Payment Method information. ZEL reserves the right to utilize third party credit card updating services to obtain current expiration dates on credit cards provided by You to ZEL. Customers who use a third party Payment Method may incur additional payment processing fees charged by such third party to its customers, and may not be able to automatically renew subscriptions or memberships.

Digital and In-Game Merchandise and Merchandise Purchases.

In addition to the above, the following terms apply to pricing of and payment for any digital goods and in-game consumables ("booster packs", digital goods outside of any Game (such as a wallpaper, or a character outfit), and digital downloads of other products) (collectively, "Merchandise"). Unless otherwise noted, any Merchandise You purchase is immediately downloaded and will be applied to Your Account or Game(s) upon purchase. The prices for Merchandise displayed for such items are subject to change at any time without notice.

Early Game(s) Access/Trial Subscriptions.

For some Services, ZeniMax may offer You early access to a Game and/or a trial subscription or membership. Such Services may require You to sign up for an Account and/or a subscription or membership under the terms described above. If You accept a free trial subscription or membership for a Game that requires a subscription, and the trial period expires, You will not be able receive the benefits of the subscription (e.g., to resume Game play or any paid Services usage) or membership without updating Your information and/or purchasing the paid subscription or membership Services. ZeniMax is under no obligation to notify You in advance of the free trial subscription or membership expiring and You will be responsible for all charges incurred. Trial subscriptions and memberships are not transferable.


6. Availability of Services and Content; Game Maintenance, Patches, Updates; Termination of Services

ZeniMax does not guarantee that any Services will be available at all times, in all countries and/or all geographic locations, at any given time, or that ZeniMax will continue to offer any particular Services for any particular length of time. Except as prohibited by applicable law and subject to the Statutory Obligations (as defined in Section 1), ZeniMax reserves the right to change and update Content without notice to You. ZeniMax also reserves the right to refuse Your request(s) to acquire Content, and to limit or block any request to acquire Content, including, but not limited to, Downloadable Content and Game Mods, for any reason.

ZeniMax may patch, update, or modify a Service at any time with or without notice to You. Notwithstanding the foregoing, ZeniMax has no obligation to make available any patches, updates or modifications or correct any errors or defects in the Services. ZeniMax makes no guarantees about the persistence or availability of any user names or other personas at any time and assumes no liability for lost or deleted Account data. Except as prohibited by applicable law and subject to the Statutory Obligations (as defined in Section 1), You agree that ZeniMax will not be liable for any interruption of the Services, delay or failure to perform, any loss of Content (including, but not limited to, UGC, Game Mods and Downloadable Content), and/or Account data (including, but not limited to, Character data) resulting from any causes whatsoever. ZeniMax reserves the right to offer new Services, change and/or discontinue certain Services at any time in its sole discretion.

Except as prohibited by applicable law and subject to the Statutory Obligations (as defined in Section 1), ZeniMax may restrict, suspend, or terminate Your access to some or any Services at any time. Should ZeniMax make a material change to the Services, it will provide You notice within the time period specified when You joined the particular Service, or if no time period for notice of material changes was specified, then within thirty (30) days of the date such notice is either (at ZeniMax's discretion) provided to You via email or is posted on the applicable product or ZeniMax Service or on Your "My Account" section.

In response to a violation of these Terms of Service, ZeniMax may issue You a warning, suspend or restrict certain features of Your Account (including, but not limited to, user names), selectively modify or remove or revoke Downloadable Content at an Account and/or device level, immediately terminate any and all Accounts that You have established and/or temporarily or permanently ban Your Account, device, and/or machine from accessing all or certain Services.

ZeniMax may terminate Your access to and/or use of the Services (i) for violating these Terms of Service, (ii) if ZeniMax, in its sole discretion, deems that Your information is untrue, inaccurate, not complete or incomplete; (iii) if Your use of such Services infringes on or is suspected of infringing on another's rights or any intellectual property; (iv) if You or Your Account reflects inappropriate Content and/or violates these Terms of Service. Any and all Content (including, but not limited to, Software, Content, and Downloadable Content) will be considered forfeit immediately in the event of any cancellation, closure, or termination of Your Account by ZeniMax.

If ZeniMax terminates an Account, it may terminate other Accounts that share the same characteristics, such as the name on the Account, email address, mailing address, Internet Protocol address, or credit card number or other Payment Method. ZeniMax reserves the right to use any means necessary and permitted under applicable law to identify and terminate Accounts.

You acknowledge that in such circumstances, ZeniMax is not required to provide You notice before taking action to restrict, suspend or terminate Your access to or use of Services, and/or Your Account. If ZeniMax terminates Your Account, You may not use any Service again without ZeniMax's express written permission. ZeniMax reserves the right to refuse to keep Accounts for, and provide Services to, any individual. You may not allow individuals whose Accounts have been terminated by ZeniMax to use Your Account.

If Your Account, or a particular subscription or membership for a Service associated with Your Account, is terminated or suspended and/or if any Downloadable Content is selectively removed, revoked or garnished from Your Account and/or if Your device is temporarily or permanently banned from accessing some or all of the Services, no refund will be granted, no Downloadable Content will be credited to You or converted to cash or other forms of reimbursement, and You will have no further access to Your Account or Downloadable Content associated with Your Account or the particular Service except where any action has been taken against Your Account or device in error and subject to the Statutory Obligations (as defined in Section 1). If You believe that any action has been taken against Your Account or device in error, please contact Customer Services at support.bethsoft.com.

7. Your Right to Cancel Your Account

You have the right to cancel Your Account or a particular subscription or membership to a Service at any time. Additional cancellation terms in respect of a particular subscription or membership may be specified when You subscribe, in Your Account information, or in notices for subscription or membership renewals. Generally, when You cancel a subscription or membership the cancellation will be effective at the end of Your then-current subscription or membership period.

Contact ZeniMax's Customer Service at support.bethsoft.com to cancel Your Account or any subscription or membership to a Service.

ZeniMax reserves the right to collect fees, applicable governmental charges (including sales tax, value added tax (VAT), goods and service tax (GST) and other taxes), or costs incurred before You cancel Your Account or a subscription or membership to a Service. You are also responsible for any amounts owed to third-party vendors or Content providers before Your cancellation. Any delinquent or unpaid fees and other unresolved issues must be settled before You establish a new Account.

8. Rules of Conduct

Except as prohibited by applicable law and subject to the Statutory Obligations (as defined in Section 1), ZeniMax has the right, in its sole discretion, to modify, restrict, suspend, or terminate Your access to the Services. As noted above, this could result because (i) Your information is untrue, inaccurate, not complete or incomplete; (ii) Your activities infringe on or are suspected to infringe on another's rights or any intellectual property; (iii) ZeniMax in its sole discretion determined that You or Your Account reflects inappropriate Content; or (iv) You or activities taken under or with Your Account violate these Terms of Service. Other Supplemental Terms pertaining to Your Service and/or Game, such as a Code of Conduct, provide guidance on behavior that ZeniMax deems to be inappropriate and specify restrictions on Your Account, Your use of the Game, or Your participation in the Services.

You agree not to use any Service to:

Take any action or upload, post, transmit, promote, or distribute any illegal Content, including, but not limited to, any UGC or any Game Mods;

Take any action or upload, post, transmit, promote, or distribute any Content that infringes or violates any third party rights;

Engage in, take any action associated with, or participate in any type of child solicitation, grooming behavior, pedophilia, or predatory behavior in any form;

Harass, stalk, threaten, embarrass, spam or do anything else to another user of any Services that is unwanted, such as repeatedly sending unwanted messages or making personal attacks or statements about race, sexual orientation, religion, heritage, etc.;

Take any action or upload, post, transmit, distribute, or communicate Your or any person's real-world personal information;

Impersonate any person or entity, including, but not limited to, ZeniMax, ZeniMax's partners' or affiliates' employees, or falsely state or otherwise misrepresent Your affiliation with a person or entity;

Take any action, organize, transmit any Content, effectuate or participate in any activity, group, or guild that is harmful, tortuous, abusive, hateful (including "hate speech"), racially, ethnically, religiously or otherwise offensive, obscene, threatening, bullying, vulgar, sexually explicit, defamatory, libelous, infringing, invasive of personal privacy or publicity rights, encourages conduct that would violate a law or is, in a reasonable person's view, objectionable and/or deemed to be in the sole discretion of ZeniMax inappropriate;

Promote, upload, transmit, encourage or take part in any activity involving hacking, cracking, phishing, taking advantage of exploits or cheats and/or distribution of counterfeit software and/or Virtual Currency or virtual items. In an effort to continuously improve the Services, You and other players discovering exploits, cheats, cracks or other inconsistencies are required to report them to ZeniMax;

Take any action or upload, post, transmit, promote, or distribute any Content or software code that may contain a Trojan horse, virus, worm, spyware, time bombs, cancelbots, corrupted data, malware, malicious code, or other computer programs that may damage, interfere with, intercept, expropriate or disrupt the Services, including, but not limited to, any Game(s), personal information, or confidential or proprietary information;

Take any action that permits You to collect personally identifiable information, personal information, or aggregated and/or anonymized statistics of others;

Engage in disruptive behavior in chat areas, game areas, forums, or any other area or aspect of the Services. Examples of disruptive behavior include, but are not limited to, conduct which interferes with the normal flow of gameplay or dialogue within a Service, vulgar language, abusiveness, hitting the return key repeatedly or inputting large images so the screen goes by too fast to read, use of excessive shouting [i.e., all text in capitals] in an attempt to disturb other users, "spamming" or flooding [i.e., posting repetitive text], commercial postings, solicitations and advertisements, posting advertising or promotional messaging, chain letters, pyramid schemes, or other commercial activities;

Attempt to get a password, Account information, or other private information from anyone else. As a reminder, ZeniMax employees will never ask You to reveal Your password.


ZeniMax may report certain incidents to law enforcement and other authorities, including, but not limited to, disclosing Account information, in the good faith belief that it is required to do so by law, or that doing so is reasonably necessary to comply with legal processes; when it deems it necessary or appropriate to disclose certain information to law enforcement and other authorities, such as to investigate actual or suspected fraud or violations of law, breaches of security, or breaches of these Terms of Service and/or Supplementary Terms; to respond to any claims; or to protect the rights, property, or personal safety of ZeniMax, its customers, or the public.

Unless otherwise specified, there is no requirement or expectation that ZeniMax will monitor or record any online activity on the Services. ZeniMax reserves the right, but is under no obligation to monitor communications within, through or across the Services, such as in-Game or on forums. ZeniMax also reserves the right to access and/or record any online activity on the Services, and You give ZeniMax Your express consent to access and record Your activities. This includes, but is not limited to, Your consent to access, record, and turn over any online activity where ZeniMax believes that disclosure is necessary to comply with the law, to combat fraud and/or to comply with a judicial proceeding, court order, or legal process served on ZeniMax or to comply with an order from a government entity or other competent authority, or when ZeniMax has reason to believe that a disclosure is necessary to address potential or actual injury or interference with ZeniMax's, Your, or another user's rights, property, or operations, or to protect others who may be harmed or may suffer loss or damage.

You agree that in its sole discretion and without notice, ZeniMax may remove Content from any Service, take whatever steps it deems necessary to abridge or prevent behavior of any sort in Services, including, but not limited to, in any Game(s). Subject to the Statutory Obligations (as defined in Section 1), ZeniMax has no liability for Your or any third party's violation of these Terms of Service.

If You encounter another user who is violating a code of conduct, please report this activity to ZeniMax by contacting ZeniMax Customer Service at support.bethsoft.com. If You are in-Game, You can report an issue using an in-Game help feature where applicable or You may contact Customer Service directly at help@zenimax.com.

9. Your Use of the Services

You further agree not to access, create, or provide any other means through which the Services, including, but not limited to, any Game(s), may be used or accessed by others, such as through server emulators.

You may not participate, take part in, initiate, or engage in actions that impose an unreasonable or disproportionate load on the infrastructure hosting the Game(s) and/or Services.

You agree not to use any hardware or software or any other method of support that is not authorized by ZeniMax or that may in any way influence or advantage Your playing abilities, or influence or advantage Your use of the Services. Third party tools, the use of "bots", "speed hacks", "deep-link", "page-scrape", "robot", "spider", algorithms or other programs that copy or monitor any part of the Services (including, but not limited to, the Game(s) and/or forums), software that transmits, manipulates, or distributes (including, but are limited to, "mirroring") the data stream or any aspect of the Services to another computer, server websites or other publication or distribution media, or software that permits You to use Services without human input are examples of methods not authorized by ZeniMax.

You acknowledge that You do not have the right to create, publish, distribute, create derivative works from or use any software programs, utilities, applications, emulators or tools derived from or created for certain Content (such as Game(s)), except as authorized in writing by an authorized ZeniMax representative. You may use the Software to the extent expressly permitted by these Terms of Service and the EULA.

PLEASE NOTE THAT ANY VIOLATION OF THESE TERMS OF SERVICE MAY CONSTITUTE CIVIL WRONGS AND/OR CRIMINAL OFFENSES AND ZENIMAX RESERVES THE RIGHT TO TAKE SUCH ACTION AS ZENIMAX IN ITS SOLE DISCRETION DEEMS APPROPRIATE IN THE CIRCUMSTANCES.

ZeniMax in its sole discretion may implement various forms of filtering, blocking, or monitoring of IP addresses, MAC addresses or proxies used to use, play or access the Services, including without limitation blocking or filtering measures that restrict Your ability to use, play or access the Services. ZeniMax in its sole discretion may restrict access or certain features or Services to any person, territories or geographic areas.

10. Third Party Sites and Products

Services m

Aurie

And...of course the rest of it got truncated.....


But the message is, do you seriously think anyone has actually read this all the way through?

Elsonso

Aurelle1 wrote: »

And...of course the rest of it got truncated.....


But the message is, do you seriously think anyone has actually read this all the way through?

Yes.

Juli'St

Cheater, seems ok, exploit's with addons, seems ok... macro editable, server side, seems ok...

...make mistakes about a BUG (your FAULT ZOS) = ban!

Serious, ZOS?

DarkAedin

Both of my tickets have been closed and unanswered past the "a toon on your account has exploited blah blah blah."
Then i got a survey
Ive been questing through 3 zones a day. I assume based on other players in this thread that i got dinged for gear farming in bangkorai.

But i have no clarity from zos on which boss i farmed. How many times, how many extra skillpoints, or how to prevent this in the future. How is this 3 day suspension teaching me anything other then "leave the game"

smackysmacks

This is literal crazy land. It's not like some technical exploit that some hacker crew is taking advantage of to gold farm or win in pvp or something.

It's killing a dungeon boss in a public dungeon more than once.

Let that sink in.

The fact that is deemed an EXPLOIT rather than a bug that should have just got fixed by an emergency patch is what the issue here. I can only imagine how the banned players must feel about it.

Seriously. Whoever is in charge of this clown show needs to get the boot. I really hope the gaming media pick this up and run with it because this is heinously wrong for so may reasons.

ManwithBeard9

smackysmacks wrote: »

This is literal crazy land. It's not like some technical exploit that some hacker crew is taking advantage of to gold farm or win in pvp or something.

It's killing a dungeon boss in a public dungeon more than once.

Let that sink in.

The fact that is deemed an EXPLOIT rather than a bug that should have just got fixed by an emergency patch is what the issue here. I can only imagine how the banned players must feel about it.

Seriously. Whoever is in charge of this clown show needs to get the boot. I really hope the gaming media pick this up and run with it because this is heinously wrong for so may reasons.

It is an exploit the same way the survey writ was an exploit. It was an unintended bug that can be easily avoided and only when repeated becomes an exploit.

And no one will get fired for this, there will be no media firestorm. Users were given a 3 day suspension, not an IP ban, they didnt come to your house and kick your dog, sleep with your mom. No one outside of the nerd rage on these forums will care people got punished for exploiting an unintended mechanic in game.

SteveCampsOut

SantieClaws wrote: »

Regrettably my guild has now lost one of it's senior members over this

A good person who was most upset to be accused of being intentionally dishonest and now no longer feels happy or comfortable being in Tamriel. Someone who had been a fellow traveller since 2015.

One good person lost without need is far too many.

Yours with paws
Santie Claws

I just lost my assistant guild leader on EU because of this. Her character had skill points to spare before this supposed exploit that she wasn't using, why on earth would she need to exploit for more? It's idiotic.

Majeure wrote: »

Yeah, that's pretty damn lax for intentionally abusing what is most obviously a bug. 3 days, really? That's barely a vacation, they would be back in no time gloating in guild chat. ZOS cmonBruh

So from what I've heard it wasn't just a 3 day ban. These accounts are now on a list of known "Exploiters" and have been told if it happens again their accounts will be locked. This is beyond the pale for someone who fell afoul of this unintentionally!

Lavennin

I sometimes kill group bosses repeatedly. For many reasons, but I can recall doing that for a few times.

I was lucky, because those bosses don't happen to be bugged. Otherwise I'll stop playing this game. And I'd like to keep playing.

3 days is not a big deal, I can take a 3 day break. But I can't be punished unfairly. It's different, and it's more than I can take. So if stuff like this happened to me, I'd leave for good. No amount of fun can justify a wrong punishment.

Fingers crossed that I won't randomly stumble upon one of their bugs and get banned. After all, bugs are sort of, well, everywhere.

Lord_Hev

SteveCampsOut wrote: »

So from what I've heard it wasn't just a 3 day ban. These accounts are now on a list of known "Exploiters" and have been told if it happens again their accounts will be locked. This is beyond the pale for someone who fell afoul of this unintentionally!

Source please?

SteveCampsOut

Lord_Hev wrote: »

SteveCampsOut wrote: »

So from what I've heard it wasn't just a 3 day ban. These accounts are now on a list of known "Exploiters" and have been told if it happens again their accounts will be locked. This is beyond the pale for someone who fell afoul of this unintentionally!

Source please?

I'm sorry? And you are? I am not the person who received the email or the ban. The source would be that particular person's email. I'm just relating what was told to me. I am not going to name names and I couldn't post the email even if I wanted to as I don't have a copy and posting private emails is against the TOS. So pardon me if I don't gratify your need for documentation. Believe it or don't. It's no skin off my back.

smacx250

ManwithBeard9 wrote: »

smackysmacks wrote: »

This is literal crazy land. It's not like some technical exploit that some hacker crew is taking advantage of to gold farm or win in pvp or something.

It's killing a dungeon boss in a public dungeon more than once.

Let that sink in.

The fact that is deemed an EXPLOIT rather than a bug that should have just got fixed by an emergency patch is what the issue here. I can only imagine how the banned players must feel about it.

Seriously. Whoever is in charge of this clown show needs to get the boot. I really hope the gaming media pick this up and run with it because this is heinously wrong for so may reasons.

It is an exploit the same way the survey writ was an exploit. It was an unintended bug that can be easily avoided and only when repeated becomes an exploit.

Do you actually know what the survey map bug was? Because if you do, you are being very disingenuous with this statement. In case you don't know, it required that you approach the survey, and when it appeared, open up your banking assistant and deposit the map in the bank. Then after looting the survey, you leave the area, take the survey map out of the bank, and go back to the survey site. Repeat, repeat, repeat. There is absolutely no way that could be otherwise be considered "normal gameplay".

Lord_Hev

SteveCampsOut wrote: »

Lord_Hev wrote: »

SteveCampsOut wrote: »

So from what I've heard it wasn't just a 3 day ban. These accounts are now on a list of known "Exploiters" and have been told if it happens again their accounts will be locked. This is beyond the pale for someone who fell afoul of this unintentionally!

Source please?

I'm sorry? And you are? I am not the person who received the email or the ban. The source would be that particular person's email. I'm just relating what was told to me. I am not going to name names and I couldn't post the email even if I wanted to as I don't have a copy and posting private emails is against the TOS. So pardon me if I don't gratify your need for documentation. Believe it or don't. It's no skin off my back.

Did someone *** in your coffee?

DarkAedin

Lord_Hev wrote: »

SteveCampsOut wrote: »

So from what I've heard it wasn't just a 3 day ban. These accounts are now on a list of known "Exploiters" and have been told if it happens again their accounts will be locked. This is beyond the pale for someone who fell afoul of this unintentionally!

Source please?

Although i appreciate where u are coming from, pls read through the whole thread. At this point in the thread, we are past casting any blame on players. Blame is on zos' bad handling of the situation.

This is an extremely easy bug to exploit unknowingly.

Ive been playing on and off since beta, when tam 1 dropped the game changed that brought us players back to the older zones to spam farm all types of bosses for gear drops.
Tam 1 has been out for a while, so an older player doesnt pay attention to skillpoint gain when focused on gear grinding.

New players had no way of knowing anything.

From a thread on the bug report forum we now know that zos new about this bug b4 it went live.

There was -NO- warning of any type to players from zos that an exploit bug was on live and how/what to do in order to not to get in trouble.

Zos sent out a blanket 3 day suspension and after that lifted some after 24 hrs and responding to tickets.

For me personally, ive been banging out skillpoint quests on my new warden, ive been completing around 3 zones a day including skyshards and group delves + pvp + dungeons.
As per this thread im assuming i was dinged bc of my grinding for lowbie 7th/spriggan, but ive done a ton of content and i actually dont know which boss got me into trouble.
Zos refuses to answer any question and closed both of my tickets immidiately.
They are also refusing to tell me how to prevent this in the future.

The concept of a suspension is a punishment to the player for doing something wrong, and to let the person reflect on what they did and learn from it. Pls to tell me how im supposed to learn from this if zos refuses to give me -any- clarity.

Elsonso

ManwithBeard9 wrote: »

smackysmacks wrote: »

This is literal crazy land. It's not like some technical exploit that some hacker crew is taking advantage of to gold farm or win in pvp or something.

It's killing a dungeon boss in a public dungeon more than once.

Let that sink in.

The fact that is deemed an EXPLOIT rather than a bug that should have just got fixed by an emergency patch is what the issue here. I can only imagine how the banned players must feel about it.

Seriously. Whoever is in charge of this clown show needs to get the boot. I really hope the gaming media pick this up and run with it because this is heinously wrong for so may reasons.

It is an exploit the same way the survey writ was an exploit. It was an unintended bug that can be easily avoided and only when repeated becomes an exploit.

The problem with this exploit is that it coincides with part of the intended game play. ZOS expects people to farm dungeon bosses for set items. It is the only way to get certain parts of the set, and RNG does not exactly work in the player's favor here. It has to be done multiple times, possibly over days.

Unlike the survey writs, players routinely farm dungeons, and are expected to repeatedly kill dungeon bosses.

Everyone should have the extra skill points removed. Only people with the intent to exploit should have been suspended. In this case, intent is more challenging to determine. People can kill the same boss in the same dungeon many many times and not have any intent to gain illicit skill points.

I also want to point out that we still do not know the scope of this bug. Say a player kills a boss and gets a skill point, then kills again and gets another one. Say they are alert enough to realize that there is a bug, and writes the ticket. They wisely stay away from that boss, now that they know. Is the bug limited to just that boss? Is it on every dungeon group event in the game? Do they stay away from all group events, or just that one? Is the next boss they kill going to give them a skill point? When an exploit happens during normal game play, to an extent and scope that is unknown, does ZOS just expect the players to log out and stop playing until fixed? Weeks or months later? ZOS is not always as quick with a fix as they were this time, and it is not like ZOS lets anyone know what they are doing.

Meanwhile, people who are intentionally violating the ToS by running endless circuits in zones using automation software to farm XP, gold, and materials, get to play for weeks without as much as a glance from ZOS.

modaretto

Woeler wrote: »

Moi_523 wrote: »

Well this kinda sucks because we just happened to be doing that public dungeon (myself and 2 others) that day. One of us had missed the group event boss when it was up so we went back to kill it again. We also were around the dungeon several times in order to get all the bosses for the achievement and and passed by the group event many times. We did not camp it like so many others did but are getting punished because their programming was *** up. Thanks a lot ZOS. There was NO WAY to prevent from getting an extra skill point when we killed it again for the other group members that missed it...

4 people in my guild that went to do all the public dungeons with their new wardens to get the skillpoints from there were also banned.

Great job banning people for playing the game.

How unfortunate, good thing my guildies were busy elsewhere.

Really well done with the bans though, it's hardly accidental to take advantage like that and it's very good and healthy behaviour to react like this. Completely support and thanks for your work.

MajBludd

Hardly accidental? Is that why my suspension was lifted after they decided to unvestigate?

MajBludd

Investigate*

MajBludd

I'm sure some people did exploit this intentionally, but some dud not. The extent of who did and who didn't and how they determined that, I am not sure how they came to that conclusion.

out51d3r

@SteveCampsOut

@Lord_Hev isn't trying to be a jerk. He's been in here arguing against this suspension wave for a while. And he probably finds your claim plausible. A request for proof isn't always an attack.

In this thread, we have somebody that posted proof that they reported this bug, but got suspended for it anyways. People actually providing proof of their claims is unfortunately rare, considering how easy it is to do in a situation like this. I'd like to see more of it. I find your claim plausible, and would love to see evidence of it, if it exists.

Elsonso

out51d3r wrote: »

Lord_Hev isn't trying to be a jerk. He's been in here arguing against this suspension wave for a while. And he probably finds your claim plausible. A request for proof isn't always an attack.

In this thread, we have somebody that posted proof that they reported this bug, but got suspended for it anyways. People actually providing proof of their claims is unfortunately rare, considering how easy it is to do in a situation like this. I'd like to see more of it. I find your claim plausible, and would love to see evidence of it, if it exists.

There is no proof. Only images purporting to be proof. It takes 5 minutes, using commonly found tools, to make an "email from ZOS" that says anything you want, or to show that some ticket was written. Unless a moderator steps in and reveals it for what it is, no one is going to know anything different. Hopefully, the moderators are willing to do that. Perhaps we should be using the Report feature when someone posts "proof" and ask them to check on it. I dunno. Really, it isn't any of our business whether it is true or not. It might be in their interest to delete skillful fabrications, though.

What SteveCampsOut says, as a third party observer, is just as valid as any proof that could be provided. You either believe, or you don't.

I find what has been said about false positives to be plausible, in the face of no opposing statements from ZOS. It certainly would not be the first time we have seen indications that ZOS ToS Enforcement got giddy with excitement and went ban happy.

I will say that ZOS has, in the past, taken steps to fix it when they get ban happy and start banning innocents (alleged innocents). If anything, they get unban happy. Out of the 300 suspended this time, I bet 1/3rd of them, or more, end up being reversed.

out51d3r

lordrichter wrote: »

Unless a moderator steps in and reveals it for what it is, no one is going to know anything different. Hopefully, the moderators are willing to do that. Perhaps we should be using the Report feature when someone posts "proof" and ask them to check on it. I dunno. Really, it isn't any of our business whether it is true or not.

As a legitimate user of this service, it is very much my business whether legitimate users are being punished, despite following the TOS and doing exactly what ZOS asked them to do.

The idea that the veracity of evidence can only be decided by the moderators is extremely dangerous, and anti-consumer. You don't allow companies to investigate themselves if you want to get consistently fair and true results.