Dragonknight Morrowind PVP Concern

Asgari

Hello everyone,

I am not going to talk about the changes to DK in this update, what I am going to bring up which concerns me the most is the lack of necessity for a DK in a group now, small or large. Regardless of the nerfs DKs are taking that gut what makes a DK unique, the class only now brings one thing to a group that no one else does. Minor brutality.

Is wasting a slot in a pvp group for such a minor buff really needed?

Sorcs now root 100x better than DKs can with their aoe root and streak combination. Also the change to dodge roll talons is even less effective seeing as you cant just keep someone locked down along with how costly DK skills are.

Standard was very useful for the Major Defile - 250 ult cost; But now Warden has a aoe Major Defile through the use of a skill.

Zenimax you have now just under a month before Morrowind is released to us all. PLEASE take into consideration things like this with how the patches are going forward. Each class should bring something unique to a group, but with these changes you are making, DK just has no real place in pvp anymore.

Kilandros

We've phased out DKs entirely from group PvP composition. Guildies with DK mains were told to reroll.

Dracindo

"One of us. One of us."
-Nightblades

Stamden

Kilandros wrote: »

We've phased out DKs entirely from group PvP composition. Guildies with DK mains were told to reroll.

Same story here, bringing a DK worthless compared to what a Sorc or Magplar brings to the table. No serious PvP group is going to be bringing this class with it.

Mag DKs have too high of ability costs and are forced to run heavy armor. They just run out of resources immediately.

Stam DKs got completely gutted this patch and are useless. You're better off with any other stam setup.

Kilandros

Here's the problem with DK in competitive group PvP:

1: It's not a viable healer. Those spots go to Templar/Warden.

2: It's second rate AoE damage. Those spots go to Bomblades.

3: None of DKs ultimates are needed. Negate is infinitely more effective and costs less than Standard. AoE Major Defile will be more consistently/reliably available from Warden as a base skill.

4: Stamina group builds will be mostly Sorcerer who will have the best sustain thanks to Dark Deal and the best Stamina utlity ultimate in Negate.

5: If a group even runs a tank in PvP (we don't), DK will not be the ideal PvP tank class next patch.

6: Snares. Any group who wants Immobilizes/Snares is using Sorcerers to spam Encase. Encase, as OP points out, is about 100x more effective. That gap will be even greater next patch with the Immobilize immunity after dodge roll because Encase will still apply a potent snare while talons will not.

wimhwimladimf

ITT: I cant perma block anymore complain.

Asgari

wimhwimladimf wrote: »

ITT: I cant perma block anymore complain.

Did you read? Or did you just come in here to troll? Because the work block or anything revolved around those changes isnt even brought up. so thank you for your useless input.

H4RDFOX

Is this just speculation based on what you read, or actively playing PTS/BG's/Cyro? DK's will still be viable in my opinion. I mean, what happened when nightblades got the crap end of the stick (nerf)? We kept playing.

Asgari

H4RDFOX wrote: »

Is this just speculation based on what you read, or actively playing PTS/BG's/Cyro? DK's will still be viable in my opinion. I mean, what happened when nightblades got the crap end of the stick (nerf)? We kept playing.

Obviously cant speak about certain things but this is not based on speculation.

Durham

If you can't kill a current DK you need to learn to play the game... perma blocks not actually perms block... 90% of stam DKs with shields are not block builds ... the use shield for defense and defile application ... They have no mobility ... no get away.... they stand your ground... this is why they excel at duels compared to night blades... this did not mean they needed a nerf..... what is the use of a stand your ground meta if you can't stand your group.... Right now this meta is stand and die meta...

Ghost-Shot

Kilandros wrote: »

We've phased out DKs entirely from group PvP composition. Guildies with DK mains were told to reroll.

I think Kirin and I will probably be the only people on mag DK's in our groups, and I'm seriously considering going back to my stamplar. One patch we got, one *** patch.

Moglijuana

Ghost-Shot wrote: »

Kilandros wrote: »

We've phased out DKs entirely from group PvP composition. Guildies with DK mains were told to reroll.

I think Kirin and I will probably be the only people on mag DK's in our groups, and I'm seriously considering going back to my stamplar. One patch we got, one *** patch.

I'll keep playing my DK. Will it be good? One build..YES. The rest? Not so much...

Aerem

@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_BrianWheeler
Please understand we aren't asking for large buffs to make DKs super strong.

All DKs want 2 things: passive that are relevant and lower skill costs.

These two changes would not transform the class into gods. It would just allow for us to have a little less pressure on our sustain. With the changes across the board to sustain in CP and hard hits to battle roar and other class defining passives along with many skills costing upward of 3.5-4k magicka sustaining DKs, especially in a pvp context is going to be very difficult. These changes would go a long way.

Aerem

Moglijuana wrote: »

Ghost-Shot wrote: »

Kilandros wrote: »

We've phased out DKs entirely from group PvP composition. Guildies with DK mains were told to reroll.

I think Kirin and I will probably be the only people on mag DK's in our groups, and I'm seriously considering going back to my stamplar. One patch we got, one *** patch.

I'll keep playing my DK. Will it be good? One build..YES. The rest? Not so much...

Any chance you would be willing to dm me that build? I have a few ideas I would love to bounce off of you as well.

DisgracefulMind

Agree completely with you, Asgari. DKs lack anything to bring to the group, which is extremely concerning. As @Kilandros pointed out, we've already phased out DKs from our groups. Even PvE groups are phasing them out in favor of Sorcerers.

It would seem, overall, that DK is just being tossed aside with complete refusal from ZoS to improve it.

Veg

We've been reduced to this as our only viable playstyle in morrowind

https://youtu.be/lzFBiKD_Wv4?t=3m37s

If we have enough damage then we dont have enough sustain or mitigation to kill anything.

If we have enough sustain and mitigation then we dont have enough damage to kill anything.

So now were back to useless tanking that accomplishes nothing and gets EVERYONE angry at our class. They also left igneous shield completely bugged for the lulz.

At least templars (closest things to mDK's in pvp) can still have enough damage to kill things without being a glass canon that just dies right away.

Yuke

Mastermind decision from ZOS sadly.

Check which class has the highest population. Nerf it to the ground. Force highest population to buy new expansion for a new class with similar tank gameplay (replace fire theme with ice theme).

Thats how evil masterminds work sadly.

Poliwrath

Yuke wrote: »

Mastermind decision from ZOS sadly.

Check which class has the highest population. Nerf it to the ground. Force highest population to buy new expansion for a new class with similar tank gameplay (replace fire theme with ice theme).

Thats how evil masterminds work sadly.

too bad warden also does no dmg with its 1 ice ability. would have been cool as an ice mage

MaxwellC

@Princess_Asgari
We lost a lot and get back a small change for the first time in a long time but then we get more nerfs. The passives of the DK class.. .I have stressed what I believe to be two PTS forums ago stating that our passives are outdated. They do not suit what makes the DK a threat anymore as the underlying changes have disrupted that. Skills from a PvP stand point are almost all irrelevant like who cares about a standard of might that provides the same amount of defile a single shield bash can do and soon to be an AoE skill the warden can do.

There was a lot of changes many people asked for one PTS ago and 95% of them did not make the cut; even with the outcry of support for it but hey one class got a change because of an outcry and that wasn't the DK class.

Quantum_V

They shall not clip our wings...

PainfulFAFA

Quantum_V wrote: »

They shall not clip our wings...

bruh

NightbladeMechanics

The aoe Major Defile on Warden kinda made DKs optional in large group play. Encase had already overshadowed talons. I warned about this.

NightbladeMechanics

@Quantum_V @Aerem

We'll make it work. Don't stress.

Joy_Division

Every class should bring something unique and potent to a group. As the OP noted, core elements of the DK are obtainable elsewhere by other classes in PvP that excel in other aspects that DKs do not.

NightbladeMechanics

DisgracefulMind wrote: »

Agree completely with you, Asgari. DKs lack anything to bring to the group, which is extremely concerning. As @Kilandros pointed out, we've already phased out DKs from our groups. Even PvE groups are phasing them out in favor of Sorcerers.

It would seem, overall, that DK is just being tossed aside with complete refusal from ZoS to improve it.

Meanwhile PvE groups phased nightblades out two patches ago. At least sap essence, hemorrhage, and reaper's mark keep us viable as destro ult bots for PvP groups...

Qbiken

Veg wrote: »

We've been reduced to this as our only viable playstyle in morrowind

https://youtu.be/lzFBiKD_Wv4?t=3m37s

If we have enough damage then we dont have enough sustain or mitigation to kill anything.

If we have enough sustain and mitigation then we dont have enough damage to kill anything.

So now were back to useless tanking that accomplishes nothing and gets EVERYONE angry at our class. They also left igneous shield completely bugged for the lulz.

At least templars (closest things to mDK's in pvp) can still have enough damage to kill things without being a glass canon that just dies right away.

@Veg
Gear/setup?? Looks interesting
Some people watching this will probably feel dk´s need nerf because "infinite sustain" myth.....
But did anyone die?

Derra

H4RDFOX wrote: »

Is this just speculation based on what you read, or actively playing PTS/BG's/Cyro? DK's will still be viable in my opinion. I mean, what happened when nightblades got the crap end of the stick (nerf)? We kept playing.

The time NB was maybe in a similar spot to DKs now was when they were a stamblade without a bow pre patch 1.6.

Ever since 1.6 NB was never even remotely close to the state of absolute uselessness that DK are currently in.

Vapirko

Unless they've got some major changes in the works right now, I think we've seen the end of the DK in PvP. I actually think they're going to be fine for PvE dps, but for PvP you won't play DK especially stam DK, unless you want to cripple yourself. We've got some time to go, but at this point they either need to completely reverse the changes made to DK passives or have completely reworked the class, which obviously isn't happening.

DisgracefulMind

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

DisgracefulMind wrote: »

Agree completely with you, Asgari. DKs lack anything to bring to the group, which is extremely concerning. As @Kilandros pointed out, we've already phased out DKs from our groups. Even PvE groups are phasing them out in favor of Sorcerers.

It would seem, overall, that DK is just being tossed aside with complete refusal from ZoS to improve it.

Meanwhile PvE groups phased nightblades out two patches ago. At least sap essence, hemorrhage, and reaper's mark keep us viable as destro ult bots for PvP groups...

Oh I definitely agree. NB also needs A LOT of help. I mean, a lot. It's really sad, and I really hope ZoS gives you guys some love soon. Just really scary when PvE raids start reducing their class composition to almost all one class. Saw it happen when DK was king DPS, seeing it happen now with Sorc. If anything shows how strong something has the potential to be, it would be high-tier raids.

Really hope ZoS works on the utility for DKs, though. Hate seeing some of my good friends feeling upset over their mains not being viable ):

Veg

Qbiken wrote: »

Veg wrote: »

We've been reduced to this as our only viable playstyle in morrowind

https://youtu.be/lzFBiKD_Wv4?t=3m37s

If we have enough damage then we dont have enough sustain or mitigation to kill anything.

If we have enough sustain and mitigation then we dont have enough damage to kill anything.

So now were back to useless tanking that accomplishes nothing and gets EVERYONE angry at our class. They also left igneous shield completely bugged for the lulz.

At least templars (closest things to mDK's in pvp) can still have enough damage to kill things without being a glass canon that just dies right away.

@Veg
Gear/setup?? Looks interesting
Some people watching this will probably feel dk´s need nerf because "infinite sustain" myth.....
But did anyone die?

I'll get some kills on glass canon pugs that forget to heal but i only have 33k magic and 2k spell damage in that build.

Here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LMMcOuD_H2A&t=72s
some nb and people killed themselves on me

I'll post the build if i cant make a proper fighting build by morrowind. Wouldnt want to infect pvp with even more cancer.
I really dont enjoy tanking like that all the time. I want to fight other players but this is just the only thing mDK's can do now

Qbiken

Veg wrote: »

Qbiken wrote: »

Veg wrote: »

We've been reduced to this as our only viable playstyle in morrowind

https://youtu.be/lzFBiKD_Wv4?t=3m37s

If we have enough damage then we dont have enough sustain or mitigation to kill anything.

If we have enough sustain and mitigation then we dont have enough damage to kill anything.

So now were back to useless tanking that accomplishes nothing and gets EVERYONE angry at our class. They also left igneous shield completely bugged for the lulz.

At least templars (closest things to mDK's in pvp) can still have enough damage to kill things without being a glass canon that just dies right away.

@Veg
Gear/setup?? Looks interesting
Some people watching this will probably feel dk´s need nerf because "infinite sustain" myth.....
But did anyone die?

I'll get some kills on glass canon pugs that forget to heal but i only have 33k magic and 2k spell damage in that build.

Here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LMMcOuD_H2A&t=72s
some nb and people killed themselves on me

I'll post the build if i cant make a proper fighting build by morrowind. Wouldnt want to infect pvp with even more cancer.
I really dont enjoy tanking like that all the time. I want to fight other players but this is just the only thing mDK's can do now

@Veg
Can spot Malubeth and Lich set, need to figure out the last set you´re using xD
Are you on EU server BTW? Looking for some people to do some small scale PvP with