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Why is Cliff Racer undoggeable?
ManDraKE
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Is not a channeled attack, is an instant cast, why is undoggeable? the last thing we need in this game is another spameable ranged undoggeable skill.
11
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deepseamk20b14_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭I know right? They really want to kill medium armor builds.Hey everyone! Look! It's a signature!12 -
Sigtric✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Their reasoning stated is because it would be too easy to dodge. I say if that's the case it needs to be changed visually so it's not so easy to dodge, but that's just me.
(this information was on the first ESO Live that showed the Warden)
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Scrub: Chews-on-Beavers - 50 EP DK Tank | Vera the Wild - 50 EP magicka Warden | Sigtric the Axe - 50 EP Dragonknight Crafter | Sigtric the Blade - 50 EP Lost Nightblade | Sigtric the Savage - 50 EP magicka Templar | Vibeka Shadowblade - 50 Ep Stealthy Ganky Nightblade |
Show Me Your Dunmer
[/center]4 -
SanTii.92✭✭✭✭✭
✭Their reasoning stated is because it would be too easy to dodge. I say if that's the case it needs to be changed visually so it's not so easy to dodge, but that's just me.
That's a reason, but not the most important one. It has to be undodgeable because other than a dot, mag wardens at least, don't have any other form of reliable dps. If you could roll dodge cliff racers wardens virtually wouldn't be able to touch any stam based char unless they mssd it up really hard.When the snows fall and the white winds blow,
the lone wolf dies, but the pack survives.
Arg | Pc Na | Factionless Mag Warden.0 -
ManDraKE✭✭✭✭✭
✭Their reasoning stated is because it would be too easy to dodge. I say if that's the case it needs to be changed visually so it's not so easy to dodge, but that's just me.
(this information was on the first ESO Live that showed the Warden)
things are not doggeable or undoggeable based in how hard/easy to see the visual effect is. Single target instant-cast abilities are doggeable, that is how the combat is. In order to be undoggeable it needs to be a channeled ability.
If they want the ability to be undoggeable, then it needs to be a channel, like jabs or radiant.Edited by ManDraKE on May 4, 2017 2:19AM3 -
Xvorg✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Their reasoning stated is because it would be too easy to dodge. I say if that's the case it needs to be changed visually so it's not so easy to dodge, but that's just me.
That's a reason, but not the most important one. It has to be undodgeable because other than a dot, mag wardens at least, don't have any other form of reliable dps. If you could roll dodge cliff racers wardens virtually wouldn't be able to touch any stam based char unless they mssd it up really hard.
Hmmm, but there are some things... what was the name... ah yeah... weapons...Sarcasm is something too serious to be taken lightly
I was born with the wrong sign
In the wrong house
With the wrong ascendancy
I took the wrong road
That led to the wrong tendencies
I was in the wrong place at the wrong time
For the wrong reason and the wrong rhyme
On the wrong day of the wrong week
Used the wrong method with the wrong technique5 -
Idinuse✭✭✭✭✭
✭$40
Edited by Idinuse on May 4, 2017 2:50AMSed ut perspiciatis unde omnis iste natus error sit voluptatem accusantium dolorem que laudantium, totam rem aperiam, eaque ipsa quae ab illo inventore veritatis et quasi architecto beatae vitae dicta sunt explicabo. Nemo enim ipsam voluptatem quia voluptas sit aspernatur aut odit aut fugit, sed quia consequuntur magni dolores eos qui ratione voluptatem sequi nesciunt. Neque porro quisquam est, qui dolorem ipsum quia dolor sit amet, consectetur, adipisci velit, sed quia non numquam eius modi tempora incidunt ut labore et dolore magnam aliquam quaerat voluptatem. Ut enim ad minima veniam, quis nostrum exercitationem ullam corporis suscipit laboriosam, nisi ut aliquid ex ea commodi consequatur? Quis autem vel eum iure reprehenderit qui in ea voluptate velit esse quam nihil molestiae consequatur, vel illum qui dolorem eum fugiat quo voluptas nulla pariatur?8 -
NightbladeMechanics✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Their reasoning stated is because it would be too easy to dodge. I say if that's the case it needs to be changed visually so it's not so easy to dodge, but that's just me.
(this information was on the first ESO Live that showed the Warden)
It's a spammable.
If the person is dodge rolling it, they'll run out of stam before the Warden runs out of whatever he's casting it with. Making it undodgeable is not solving any problem because there is no problem to begin with. It's just removing counterplay to make the new class stronger.
By ZOS' logic, any ranged spammable with a travel time should be undodgeable like this ability. Where's my undodgeable Funnel Health? lolKena
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Sigma957✭✭✭✭✭I think there are enough roly poly's evading skills, enough times I have fired of crushing pulse to see the "dodged" come up on screen is bs, so there is another skill that can't be dodged, might be time to learn to block instead of roly poly away into the sunset .2 -
olsborg✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Tons of spells are easy to see coming at you, dark flare, crystal fragments, snipe, stone fist(kinda) and more, but they are all dodgeable, how else does a medium armor build mitigate hard hitting dmg, blocking you say? well my medium armor sustain build with 2800 stamina regen just loves to shut down the whole point of his build (regeneration)(by blocking).
Why do wardens get one thats not dodgeable?, let me answer that for you, p2w.
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PvP only9 -
Sugaroverdose✭✭✭✭✭
That's how you think stuff should work, in fact concealed weapon and flame lash should return to undodgable state dodge is silver bullet now while it shouldn't be.Their reasoning stated is because it would be too easy to dodge. I say if that's the case it needs to be changed visually so it's not so easy to dodge, but that's just me.
(this information was on the first ESO Live that showed the Warden)
things are not doggeable or undoggeable based in how hard/easy to see the visual effect is. Single target instant-cast abilities are doggeable, that is how the combat is. In order to be undoggeable it needs to be a channeled ability.
If they want the ability to be undoggeable, then it needs to be a channel, like jabs or radiant.1 -
Darlon✭✭✭✭✭Their reasoning stated is because it would be too easy to dodge. I say if that's the case it needs to be changed visually so it's not so easy to dodge, but that's just me.
(this information was on the first ESO Live that showed the Warden)
things are not doggeable or undoggeable based in how hard/easy to see the visual effect is. Single target instant-cast abilities are doggeable, that is how I think the combat should be. In order to be undoggeable it needs to be a channeled ability.
If they want the ability to be undoggeable, then I think it needs to be a channel, like jabs or radiant.
Fixed that for you...1 -
SodanTok✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Far better thing would be to fix block so it is usable defense on medium armor build. Not something that costs 10k stamina if you block 3 light attacks.
It is more costly to hold block on damn medium stam char than magicka (in amount of resources, % wise obviously not)Edited by SodanTok on May 4, 2017 9:59AM2 -
Strider_Roshin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Because it's easy to dodge. Granted half the abilities in the game are easy to dodge, but this is the only ability that rule applies to. Also they hate medium armor.3 -
DeadlyRecluse✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Well you see, dodgeable skills are skills like Dark Flare, things that have a long, interruptible cast time, long travel time, and hit hard.
The cliff racer DOESN'T have that cast time. That's what makes it a good choice to be undodgeable.
Wait...Thrice Empress, Forever Scrub12 -
RinaldoGandolphi✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Because its simple
NO ONE evades or gets away from the Cliff Racer.....NO ONE
If you played TES 3: Morrowind, you would know this.
It won't be until the 3rd Era when Saint Jiub kills most of the Cliff Racers off that this will change....Sorry Vestige, your just an insignificant nobody that is no match for the all mighty Cliff Racers!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UAakwqJbH_o
Edited by RinaldoGandolphi on May 4, 2017 12:24PMRinaldo Gandolphi-Breton Sorcerer Daggerfall Covenant
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BohnT✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Hm but my snipe has a 1 second cast time and flies extremely slow, why is it dodgeable again?2 -
Why is Cliff Racer undoggeable?
to buy MorrowindDC|EP|AD EU .:. Claymore - all classes DK/Sorc/Nb/templar .: Retired :.
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Philosophy of the poor .: "What you cannot beat ..zerg him " :.2 -
STEVIL✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Hm but my snipe has a 1 second cast time and flies extremely slow, why is it dodgeable again?
Off one template character...
Lethal arrow - 7332, auto-poison status, major defile for 10s
Relevant passives: up to +12% damage based on range, higher wpn crit, raised wpn dam by LA/HA
Cutting dive - 5663 physical damage
relevant passives: 4 ulti every 8s and +2% damage to this for every Ac slotted on bar
yeah i see your point... its hard to see any advantage in like say hitting power that could lead one to think snipe morph might have any reason to be dodgeable and cutting dive not.
they are almost twins, you know, like Arnold and Danny.
More seriously tho: If you lifted cutting dive as is with undodgeable, made it the "other morph" for snipe beside lethal arrow with its undodgeable, no cast time, no defile, no auto-poison and doing about 75% of the base damage of lethal arrow - is there any question it would become the "crystal blast" of those morphs and almost never be used??.
Not that skill by skill comparison is valid - you cant compare two houses from inside of one closet.
But, on the broader issue, am i missing the other warden undodgeable skill or the other class which has no undodgeable non-ulti attack? Why does the warden having one somehow bring up the raisins of outrage?
Edited by STEVIL on May 4, 2017 1:59PMProudly skooma free while talks-when-drunk is in mandatory public housing.
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"The good way I used to get good kills *with good skill* was good but the way others kill me now is bad."1 -
ManDraKE✭✭✭✭✭
✭If the animation is too easy to see, then change the animation. Cliff racer should work like the rest of the skills in this game, single-target instant cast abilities that are not a channeled or an AoE/Cone attack, are doggeable, period.Fixed that for you...
Feel free to go back to previous PTS patch notes when they did a consistency pass for doggeable/undoggeable things, is explained there. They also explained in the ESO live during that time, that the behaviour of the skills should be consistent, you should be able to know what is doggeable/undoggeable based on the type of the skill (instant, channeled, single target, aoe, etc)Edited by ManDraKE on May 4, 2017 2:23PM2 -
Takes-No-Prisoner✭✭✭✭✭
✭Strider_Roshin wrote: »Because it's easy to dodge. Granted half the abilities in the game are easy to dodge,
Edited by Takes-No-Prisoner on May 4, 2017 2:33PM2 -
Minno✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭RinaldoGandolphi wrote: »Because its simple
NO ONE evades or gets away from the Cliff Racer.....NO ONE
If you played TES 3: Morrowind, you would know this.
It won't be until the 3rd Era when Saint Jiub kills most of the Cliff Racers off that this will change....Sorry Vestige, your just an insignificant nobody that is no match for the all mighty Cliff Racers!https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UAakwqJbH_o
Was just playing it a few nights ago. If we are going to follow this direction, we should also have them detect you out of stealth. I swear they have night vision in that damn game lol.Minno - DC - Forum-plar Extraordinaire
- Guild-lead for MV
- Filthy Casual1 -
Minno✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭If the animation is too easy to see, then change the animation. Cliff racer should work like the rest of the skills in this game, single-target instant cast abilities that are not a channeled or an AoE/Cone attack, are doggeable, period.Fixed that for you...
Feel free to go back to previous PTS patch notes when they did a consistency pass for doggeable/undoggeable things, is explained there. They also explained in the ESO live during that time, that the behaviour of the skills should be consistent, you should be able to know what is doggeable/undoggeable based on the type of the skill (instant, channeled, single target, aoe, etc)
It's because they are trying to offset the warden having poor PvP DPS. TBH, they should have an undodgable ability, but it should not be ranged unless it gets changed to a channel.Minno - DC - Forum-plar Extraordinaire
- Guild-lead for MV
- Filthy Casual1 -
Xvorg✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭There was a rule they published some weeks about... something about AoE ad channels not being dodgeable, while single target do...
I like the way they break their own rules...Sarcasm is something too serious to be taken lightly
I was born with the wrong sign
In the wrong house
With the wrong ascendancy
I took the wrong road
That led to the wrong tendencies
I was in the wrong place at the wrong time
For the wrong reason and the wrong rhyme
On the wrong day of the wrong week
Used the wrong method with the wrong technique5 -
SanTii.92✭✭✭✭✭
✭Their reasoning stated is because it would be too easy to dodge. I say if that's the case it needs to be changed visually so it's not so easy to dodge, but that's just me.
That's a reason, but not the most important one. It has to be undodgeable because other than a dot, mag wardens at least, don't have any other form of reliable dps. If you could roll dodge cliff racers wardens virtually wouldn't be able to touch any stam based char unless they mssd it up really hard.
Hmmm, but there are some things... what was the name... ah yeah... weapons...
weapons hmm, you mean a destro staff. Wait, are you refering to destructive touch? Is that what you think wardens should be slotting? ok..It's because they are trying to offset the warden having poor PvP DPS. TBH, they should have an undodgable ability, but it should not be ranged unless it gets changed to a channel.
It's obvious that not many tried to fight with a mag warden as a non support / healing ulti spamer. When they notice that they have nothing at it's disposal except a Dot and a ground aoe that continously fail to hit agaisnt any competent player they won't be asking for nerfs to the only reliable skill.
When the snows fall and the white winds blow,
the lone wolf dies, but the pack survives.
Arg | Pc Na | Factionless Mag Warden.0 -
Xvorg✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Their reasoning stated is because it would be too easy to dodge. I say if that's the case it needs to be changed visually so it's not so easy to dodge, but that's just me.
That's a reason, but not the most important one. It has to be undodgeable because other than a dot, mag wardens at least, don't have any other form of reliable dps. If you could roll dodge cliff racers wardens virtually wouldn't be able to touch any stam based char unless they mssd it up really hard.
Hmmm, but there are some things... what was the name... ah yeah... weapons...
weapons hmm, you mean a destro staff. Wait, are you refering to destructive touch? Is that what you think wardens should be slotting? ok..It's because they are trying to offset the warden having poor PvP DPS. TBH, they should have an undodgable ability, but it should not be ranged unless it gets changed to a channel.
It's obvious that not many tried to fight with a mag warden as a non support / healing ulti spamer. When they notice that they have nothing at it's disposal except a Dot and a ground aoe that continously fail to hit agaisnt any competent player they won't be asking for nerfs to the only reliable skill.
I was talking more about that skill called force pulse...Sarcasm is something too serious to be taken lightly
I was born with the wrong sign
In the wrong house
With the wrong ascendancy
I took the wrong road
That led to the wrong tendencies
I was in the wrong place at the wrong time
For the wrong reason and the wrong rhyme
On the wrong day of the wrong week
Used the wrong method with the wrong technique0 -
SanTii.92✭✭✭✭✭
✭Their reasoning stated is because it would be too easy to dodge. I say if that's the case it needs to be changed visually so it's not so easy to dodge, but that's just me.
That's a reason, but not the most important one. It has to be undodgeable because other than a dot, mag wardens at least, don't have any other form of reliable dps. If you could roll dodge cliff racers wardens virtually wouldn't be able to touch any stam based char unless they mssd it up really hard.
Hmmm, but there are some things... what was the name... ah yeah... weapons...
weapons hmm, you mean a destro staff. Wait, are you refering to destructive touch? Is that what you think wardens should be slotting? ok..It's because they are trying to offset the warden having poor PvP DPS. TBH, they should have an undodgable ability, but it should not be ranged unless it gets changed to a channel.
It's obvious that not many tried to fight with a mag warden as a non support / healing ulti spamer. When they notice that they have nothing at it's disposal except a Dot and a ground aoe that continously fail to hit agaisnt any competent player they won't be asking for nerfs to the only reliable skill.
I was talking more about that skill called force pulse...
Ok, let me get this straight. You want cliff racer dodgeable, and suggest that wardens should pick force pulse on it's place, because, you can't also dodge those? Not to mention dropping a set piece, and that it just hits far less. Have you ever dueled as a mag warden?Edited by SanTii.92 on May 4, 2017 5:11PMWhen the snows fall and the white winds blow,
the lone wolf dies, but the pack survives.
Arg | Pc Na | Factionless Mag Warden.0 -
Minno✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Their reasoning stated is because it would be too easy to dodge. I say if that's the case it needs to be changed visually so it's not so easy to dodge, but that's just me.
That's a reason, but not the most important one. It has to be undodgeable because other than a dot, mag wardens at least, don't have any other form of reliable dps. If you could roll dodge cliff racers wardens virtually wouldn't be able to touch any stam based char unless they mssd it up really hard.
Hmmm, but there are some things... what was the name... ah yeah... weapons...
weapons hmm, you mean a destro staff. Wait, are you refering to destructive touch? Is that what you think wardens should be slotting? ok..It's because they are trying to offset the warden having poor PvP DPS. TBH, they should have an undodgable ability, but it should not be ranged unless it gets changed to a channel.
It's obvious that not many tried to fight with a mag warden as a non support / healing ulti spamer. When they notice that they have nothing at it's disposal except a Dot and a ground aoe that continously fail to hit agaisnt any competent player they won't be asking for nerfs to the only reliable skill.
The warden is plagued by being to much of a support.
They should have spread the buffs across all classes, given the warden more well designed dps abilities, and adhered by their own ruleset for why an instant cast ranged dps ability should be dodgeable.
If the animation was the reason, the right move was to change the animation/cast time. Instead they got lazy and added it as undodgable instead.
That's why people don't like it as undodgable; we agree their dps sucks but that's no reason to violate the rules they setup.Minno - DC - Forum-plar Extraordinaire
- Guild-lead for MV
- Filthy Casual4 -
Autolycus✭✭✭✭✭
✭Is not a channeled attack, is an instant cast, why is undoggeable? the last thing we need in this game is another spameable ranged undoggeable skill.
They addressed this on ESO Live. It's because it is extremely easy to see coming and is not instant damage like most spammables are; there is a moderate delay before any damage actually occurs. The nature of this skill, if it could be dodged, would render it almost useless as it will be countered too easily to be balanced for the caster. There is still plenty of counterplay to it without it being dodgeable.2
