So are hybrid builds viable again?

Anti_Virus

Don't have access to the PTS, but can you finally make a hybrid build now?

cmetzger93

Was curious about this as well.

Anti_Virus

I would hope so.

Countcalorie

they might very well be looking at the cp change to bow expert to master at arms. u will still need pelinals AND mediocre max stats but yes there going to be buffed somewhat.

clocksstoppe

As long as your damage output scales with resource pools, I don't think so.

Alp

Until we get some soft or hard caps on the stats back people will aim for going as high as possible with either stamina or magicka. Sadly.

Turelus

I was wondering the same.

I still can't see them being as strong as a full focus build, but they might be better fit sustain using two pools instead of the one.

Doctordarkspawn

Basicly no.

amasuriel

No. Damage will still be based on the relevant stat pool + spell / weapon damage. Pelenials can match the spell / weapon damage, but your resource pool size will still gimp your damage.

NightbladeMechanics

Multiple new hybrid sets and the new direct damage CP star going all the way up to 25% damage = hybrids will not only be viable, but some hybrid builds will be pretty beast. @usmcjdking come drop some enlightenment on this thread.

Xvorg

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

Multiple new hybrid sets and the new direct damage CP star going all the way up to 25% damage = hybrids will not only be viable, but some hybrid builds will be pretty beast. @usmcjdking come drop some enlightenment on this thread.

Actually sorcs are n°1 choice for hybrids due to the passive that increases both, spell and weapon dmg. Besides, having a small poll on one res can be easily compensated with Dark Exchange.

I've been running one for the last 2 patches and I suppose it's gona get a great time from now on...

F7sus4

No.

Anti_Virus

Well that sucks.

Bladerunner1

Seriously, how does anyone definitively say no at this time? The devs say they're lowering the ceiling and we don't know by how much until it's tested.

It's pretty obvious you'd no longer be able to run with the same Meta rotation without trading lots of weapon/spell damage and lowering stats to get more stat recovery. Hybrids don't typically have that problem since they can rely on two stat pool recoveries. And the champion points allocated for dps and stat regen buffs will give more for hybrid builds since they will have more front-loading.

All signs point to hybrids getting closer to closing the gap on meta DPS by at least a little, but the exact numbers are still up in the air.

From my own personal experience, hybrids DPS is really awful on live. There's approximately a 25% drop in dps. This happens with medium Pelinals gear, maxed out weapon/spell damage and a few Magicka damage skills tossed in among stamina DPS skills.

How much of a DPS drop will there be for a pure meta build with Morrowind? If it's 25% less then yes, hybrids could be viable.

Xvorg

Bladerunner1 wrote: »

Seriously, how does anyone definitively say no at this time? The devs say they're lowering the ceiling and we don't know by how much until it's tested.

It's pretty obvious you'd no longer be able to run with the same Meta rotation without trading lots of weapon/spell damage and lowering stats to get more stat recovery. Hybrids don't typically have that problem since they can rely on two stat pool recoveries. And the champion points allocated for dps and stat regen buffs will give more for hybrid builds since they will have more front-loading.

All signs point to hybrids getting closer to closing the gap on meta DPS by at least a little, but the exact numbers are still up in the air.

From my own personal experience, hybrids DPS is really awful on live. There's approximately a 25% drop in dps. This happens with medium Pelinals gear, maxed out weapon/spell damage and a few Magicka damage skills tossed in among stamina DPS skills.

How much of a DPS drop will there be for a pure meta build with Morrowind? If it's 25% less then yes, hybrids could be viable.

I insist, in sorc is not that bad if you build them with heavy hitting skills and CC. Sure, your survaibility is not great, but you can actually kill.

And even better than pelinal's is slimecraw, in heavy hitting skills and high crit chance you notice the minor berserk buff.

usmcjdking

Hybrids will be extraordinarily strong in PVP and PVE this patch. They'll fall just shy of competetive in PVE and will likely be stronger than most builds in PVP.

The loss of cost redux doesn't bother the hybrid too much with the changes to magicka steal and orbs/shards. It is very difficult on live for a hybrid to run him/herself out of resources, so the changes won't affect them too much. They will also benefit in PVE significantly more than other specs due to regen being the supreme sustain star and hybrids naturally having 2 lines of regen via Pelinal's and naturally have reduced stat consumption because they have no primary/secondary stat.

Hybrid still has issues though, might re-bump the thread.

TL, DR:

Hybrid literally unaffected by these changes. Hybrid still has issues, though.

Rohamad_Ali

I'm going to say yes . Started testing one day one and there are some strong indicators it will be stronger then before .

Anti_Virus

Nice, How so can someone explain?

WillhelmBlack

Only if you combine worth while skills. There's not many builds I can think of that warrant using both mag and Stam skills.

We will see more balanced attributes though like in the old days.

Anti_Virus

WillhelmBlack wrote: »

Only if you combine worth while skills. There's not many builds I can think of that warrant using both mag and Stam skills.

We will see more balanced attributes though like in the old days.

Could I use draw essence, and whip on a stam dk if I tried a hybrid?

Pallio

Play however you want, as long as it is fun, you are doing right.

WillhelmBlack

Anti_Virus wrote: »

WillhelmBlack wrote: »

Only if you combine worth while skills. There's not many builds I can think of that warrant using both mag and Stam skills.

We will see more balanced attributes though like in the old days.

Could I use draw essence, and whip on a stam dk if I tried a hybrid?

Not really worth using whip, im definitely going to try a full DK AoE build tho using a little used crafted set and also a hybrid NB tank using Pelenials and Fury. These are for PvP.

Anti_Virus

Pallio wrote: »

Play however you want, as long as it is fun, you are doing right.

Not when I can't deal much damage.

Wing

there really has not been any point to trying to hybrid for a long time, there are stamina and magicka versions of just about everything you need from a design aspect (CC, AoE, single target dps, self heals, buffs, etc.) and with a limited selection of skills on your bars its just not really viable.

I'm sure there are some niche things you could do, but I want to draw your attention to the word "niche"

ADarklore

Here is the problem, with the HUGE reduction to sustain, people are going to NEED to stack max stats now more than ever. I think ZOS' idea will backfire... they previously stated they wanted people to spread out resources but by making resources more valuable, they are now forcing people to continue stacking max stats just to remain viable.

cschwingeb14_ESO

The reduction to mighty and elemental, and the new master of arms that affects all kinds of damage is a right step for hybrid play.

But pelinals is just such a massive waste of set bonuses, it's tough to make it work. The 5-piece needs to increase weapon and spell damage to

Blackfyre20

I have an idea for a hybrid build that I am going to try out that I am pretty excited about. Definitely not a min/maxed character but could be pretty viable and very fun for PVP. The CP buffs for hybrids are nice, although I am hoping my build will work in non CP campaigns and BGs too. @NightbladeMechanics mentioned new hybrid friendly sets which I am am curious to see. Is there anywhere to see the new sets btw or is that all covered under the NDA?

Just as important as the buffs to hybrids though is that the nerfs to everyone else make the opportunity costs for making a hybrid lower. Additionally, I think some current hybrid friendly sets and a lot of food/drink options help to make resource management easier than drawing from a single pool. Not saying they are going to be the new meta but they may just become a bit more viable.

arkansas_ESO

Blackfyre20 wrote: »

I have an idea for a hybrid build that I am going to try out that I am pretty excited about. Definitely not a min/maxed character but could be pretty viable and very fun for PVP. The CP buffs for hybrids are nice, although I am hoping my build will work in non CP campaigns and BGs too. @NightbladeMechanics mentioned new hybrid friendly sets which I am am curious to see. Is there anywhere to see the new sets btw or is that all covered under the NDA?

Just as important as the buffs to hybrids though is that the nerfs to everyone else make the opportunity costs for making a hybrid lower. Additionally, I think some current hybrid friendly sets and a lot of food/drink options help to make resource management easier than drawing from a single pool. Not saying they are going to be the new meta but they may just become a bit more viable.

Everything in the actual new zone, including quests and new gear sets, is included under the NDA.

itsfatbass

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

Multiple new hybrid sets and the new direct damage CP star going all the way up to 25% damage = hybrids will not only be viable, but some hybrid builds will be pretty beast. @usmcjdking come drop some enlightenment on this thread.

It's actually being nerfed to 15% from it's current state of 25%. A total LOSS of 10%.

Blackfyre20

cschwingeb14_ESO wrote: »

The reduction to mighty and elemental, and the new master of arms that affects all kinds of damage is a right step for hybrid play.

But pelinals is just such a massive waste of set bonuses, it's tough to make it work. The 5-piece needs to increase weapon and spell damage to

This is a great suggestion. Or add max stats, similar to trainee.

NightbladeMechanics

Blackfyre20 wrote: »

I have an idea for a hybrid build that I am going to try out that I am pretty excited about. Definitely not a min/maxed character but could be pretty viable and very fun for PVP. The CP buffs for hybrids are nice, although I am hoping my build will work in non CP campaigns and BGs too. @NightbladeMechanics mentioned new hybrid friendly sets which I am am curious to see. Is there anywhere to see the new sets btw or is that all covered under the NDA?

Just as important as the buffs to hybrids though is that the nerfs to everyone else make the opportunity costs for making a hybrid lower. Additionally, I think some current hybrid friendly sets and a lot of food/drink options help to make resource management easier than drawing from a single pool. Not saying they are going to be the new meta but they may just become a bit more viable.

The details are under NDA. I haven't actually seen them myself. I'm not logging onto this pts. I don't have much time for testing unfinalized stuff, and I don't want to spoil it for myself.