Regarding patch 3.0: time for open-world smallscalers to pack their bags

Rickter

but with it being a global "nerf" instead of class specific, you could go cost reduct jewels glyph instead of spell/weap dmg glyphs and still be able to fight like you do now. you wont notice the loss of the dmg glyphs because everyone will need to build for sustain more thoughtfully now than ever before.

almost like it was all planned that way. .

Derra

thankyourat wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

thankyourat wrote: »

Most of the changes in this patch actually benefit solo players. mainly the nerf to sustain. The reason 1vX has gotten harder is because of how high sustain has become if X can sustain forever it means 1 will eventually get Zerged down. They siphoner cp passive is ridiculous though. Idk how they though light attacks reducing your opponents regen was a good idea

I personally don´t think so.

It always required resources to get into a position where you could solo in the first place. You won´t realistically make it to that point with the resource changes.

Resource management on pts is worse (we´re talking way worse) than it is currently on nonCP - and you don´t see many soloers there for that reason.

I´m personally just disappointed that everything i feared in that regard will happen without further adjustments. We get a lot new and exciting sets that won´t see any use (alongside some old interesting sets that become obsolete) because anyone not wearing sustain focused sets won´t be competetive. Nice...

We will be forced into more sustain sets, maybe even some magicka builds will run drink instead of food now. I ran drink in 1.6 on my magblade. I don't think that's a bad thing though as it is now some builds don't run any recovery and still sustain fine. every update I find it gets harder to play solo. Players are literally just holding block or stacking shields until someone comes to help them. I feel the less survivable players are the easier it is to kill them. If sustain stays the way it and players just keep getting stronger 1vXing players of your same CP will be impossible no matter how skilled you are. Not to mention these sustain nerfs may push people out of heavy and into light and medium. That in itself will be a huge boost to solo play

The question remains. I already have to run one sustain set and enchant regeneration. That´s coupled with 1 utility and 1 damage set.
I don´t think people will be able to run damage sets or utility sets anymore as sustain simply becomes too important.

Also full dmg builds bypassing all sustain were mostly heavy armor centered stamina builds, magplars or light armor sorcs with harness.
Heavy receives a nerf (justified).
Harness should imo see a big nerf for sorcs.
I don´t understand the changes to light and medium.

Alite

Everyone will need to have a balanced setup now and won't be able to get carried solely by cp when it comes to sustain, I don't see what's so bad about that.

Derra

Rickter wrote: »

but with it being a global "nerf" instead of class specific, you could go cost reduct jewels glyph instead of spell/weap dmg glyphs and still be able to fight like you do now. you wont notice the loss of the dmg glyphs because everyone will need to build for sustain more thoughtfully now than ever before.

almost like it was all planned that way. .

Are you reading what i wrote?

I already don´t enchant full dmg and i don´t know any light or medium armor builds that does without running out of recources except for harness hardened stacking sorcs (which i think should have been nerfed).

Derra

Alite wrote: »

You'll need to have a balanced setup now and won't be able to get carried solely by cp when it comes to sustain, what's so bad about that?

Ok now i´m running:
bloodspawn - utility and stamina sustain
lich - magica sustain
bsw - dmg
2x magica rec 1x spelldmg enchanted. Thief mundus.

Do you feel that setup is unbalanced?

With the coming changes i will run most likely 5 amber 5 seducer maelstrom weapons with poisons.
amber - sustain mag and stam
seducer - sustain mag
As much regen as i need on jewelry.

That second setup - solely focused on sustain is a lot less "balanced" than the one i´m running now. But that´s ofc only my opinion.

Darnathian

Xsorus wrote: »

Caltrops:
Multiple player characters can now stack this ability and its morphs in the same area and damage the same target.
Reduced the size of this ability and its morphs to 8 meters from 12 meters.
Reduced the duration of this ability and its morphs to 12 seconds from 30 seconds.
Reduced the cost of this ability and its morphs by approximately 50%.
Increased the damage of this ability and its morphs by approximately 75%.

Look at this ***..

this change right here, makes me instantly lose faith in ZOS

How many layers of these will u have to get through on a breach now. With siege on u. GG

Lana_Jaff

I think everybody that fails to acknowledge the points that the OP is stating are probably just a bunch of mindless/useless zerglings that gets exposed on a daily basis.

rfennell_ESO

People complain about how softcaps were removed.

These changes are akin to softcaps in many ways, in that they take away from max "stat"ing something to get the highest benefit.

People cry "burn the whole thing down, the sky is falling".

It's really not so terrible...

QuebraRegra

zuto40 wrote: »

im packing right now, anyone know any good new mmo's?

I like ESO, I really do, but things too often go in directions they shouldn't, and other things which should be addressed go unaddressed since launch even.

That said there are few alternatives for the console community, but there is hope:
https://conanexiles.com/

Sallington

That caltrops change had me lol'ing.

Valencer

Derra wrote: »

thankyourat wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

thankyourat wrote: »

Most of the changes in this patch actually benefit solo players. mainly the nerf to sustain. The reason 1vX has gotten harder is because of how high sustain has become if X can sustain forever it means 1 will eventually get Zerged down. They siphoner cp passive is ridiculous though. Idk how they though light attacks reducing your opponents regen was a good idea

I personally don´t think so.

It always required resources to get into a position where you could solo in the first place. You won´t realistically make it to that point with the resource changes.

Resource management on pts is worse (we´re talking way worse) than it is currently on nonCP - and you don´t see many soloers there for that reason.

I´m personally just disappointed that everything i feared in that regard will happen without further adjustments. We get a lot new and exciting sets that won´t see any use (alongside some old interesting sets that become obsolete) because anyone not wearing sustain focused sets won´t be competetive. Nice...

We will be forced into more sustain sets, maybe even some magicka builds will run drink instead of food now. I ran drink in 1.6 on my magblade. I don't think that's a bad thing though as it is now some builds don't run any recovery and still sustain fine. every update I find it gets harder to play solo. Players are literally just holding block or stacking shields until someone comes to help them. I feel the less survivable players are the easier it is to kill them. If sustain stays the way it and players just keep getting stronger 1vXing players of your same CP will be impossible no matter how skilled you are. Not to mention these sustain nerfs may push people out of heavy and into light and medium. That in itself will be a huge boost to solo play

The question remains. I already have to run one sustain set and enchant regeneration. That´s coupled with 1 utility and 1 damage set.
I don´t think people will be able to run damage sets or utility sets anymore as sustain simply becomes too important.

Also full dmg builds bypassing all sustain were mostly heavy armor centered stamina builds, magplars or light armor sorcs with harness.
Heavy receives a nerf (justified).
Harness should imo see a big nerf for sorcs.
I don´t understand the changes to light and medium.

It's mostly heavy armour builds that get a little crazy, and some overperforming item sets. Havent seen a single light/medium build giving a bunch of experienced players real trouble, unless some seriously cheesy set was involved or whatever.

Seems like the general theme of this update is giving everyone less resources to do well with - and in turn making everyone easier to kill because of that. Typical that theyre treating a problem they themselves caused (heavy armour overbuffing and overperforming item sets) with a sledgehammer.

The fact they see CP as the root cause instead of all the ridiculous gear options and uncounterable abilities they added with thieves guild, dark brotherhood, shadows of the hist, one tamriel and homestead is why Im afraid the PvP in this game is never really going to be in a really good state anymore. Just band-aid solution after band-aid solution.

Integral1900

In response to the post




Yay




That is all

melloni_aleb16_ESO

zuto40 wrote: »

im packing right now, anyone know any good new mmo's?

a mmorpg not balanced by zenimax staff


however, the solution is not to play , not renew eso plus , don't buy form the store and don't buy morrowind ; and see how it evolves Eso following him.... .

I doubt happens , but it is a pity, if managed properly would be a great game

Rickter

Derra wrote: »

Are you reading what i wrote?

I already don´t enchant full dmg and i don´t know any light or medium armor builds that does without running out of recources except for harness hardened stacking sorcs (which i think should have been nerfed).

no need to get rude. I was thinking more along the lines of 1 regen and 2 cost reduc.

and FYI: i run serpent mundus and full weapon dmg jewels glyphs, by the way and sustain fine on noCP campaign.

NightbladeMechanics

Derra wrote: »

Rickter wrote: »

@Derra - how is sustain way worse on the pts than it is on a noCP campaign? I didnt see too many skills cost increase in the patch notes just the changes to CP which arent taken into consideration on the no CP pvp campaigns.

as the the OP - i dont think small scale is dead. They want to do away with the infinite sustain builds. which we all agree they should. So lets give it a chance. if it doesnt work, zos will revert things back. we've seen changes changed back again. They moved their direction based on direct player feedback

I´ve also never seen a true infinite sustain build that also dealt dmg (excluding harness).

Really?

HiImRex

lol @ "this patch is going to bring back skillful play"
it will do the opposite

Here's what the patch does in a nutshell-

huge nerfs to sustain on all fronts, hvy armor overnerf, the major stam sustain nerf (global cost increase... 30% cost increase on vigor!!!), nerf to the survivability mechanics of templars/DKs, nerf to the sustain mechanic of nightblade

Here's what that means-

players will generally do less damage - need for 3 of 4 classes to balance regen & damage, most likely through jewelry glyphs & mundus stone
players will generally take more damage - heavy armor being so overnerfed means players will switch to medium/light and become squishier
active healing will be less powerful - lower damage numbers and higher heal cost = less impactful active healing

Passive gameplay gets huge buffs as a result-

Passive DPS buffed via Proc Sets- 3.0.0 nerfs damage potential through increase in resource cost. Top-meta proc sets add high DPS without a corresponding resource cost, meaning that while everyone's global damage potential is nerfed, proc-set damage potential remains the same = straight and substantial buff to the power of proc sets

Passive Sustain buffed via Proc Sets- 3.0.0 similarly nerfs healing through increase in resource cost and also through the removal of major mending from the 2 classes that rely on major mending to provide tankiness. This makes sets like Troll King/Malubeth/Engine Guardian even more desirable than they are now

Sorcs master class-

Shield stacking gets buffed - since players will generally do less damage (or inversely have less sustain) shield stacking (which currently can sustain quite nicely against full damage mega sustain builds on live) is buffed as the result of this patch.

mSorcs will blow everyone up even faster - proper mSorc players can put intense pressure even on tanky heavy armor players. 3.0.0 nerfs heavy armor & sustain to the point where most players will be pushed into light/medium = 8k frag / curse / wrath / implosion clown fiesta all day everyday.

Dark Exchange barely touched, Sorcs still get to keep their big damage and have sustain - huge sustain nerf to everything vs. a 0.2 second cast time increase to dark exchange, arguably already the strongest resource management ability in the game on an already powerful class. What else needs to be said? Good luck bashing streak/BoL->Dark Deal spam, and ready your wives for your Fengrush Viper/Tremorscale full damage Stam Sorc overlords.

Proc Gankers rejoice-

Many more players in light/medium, most players with less burst or sustain. 1 hit procset ganking buffed as a result.

TLDR-

ORC + Troll King BIS for stam small scale any class
Proc set / regen glyph new top tier meta for templar/DK/nightblade
Sorc only viable 1vX class w/any real build options
Sorc master race in general
Procset gankers their close 2nd

Enjoy your "skillful" / "active" morrowind PvP

Glamdring

Rickter wrote: »

@Derra - how is sustain way worse on the pts than it is on a noCP campaign? I didnt see too many skills cost increase in the patch notes just the changes to CP which arent taken into consideration on the no CP pvp campaigns.

as the the OP - i dont think small scale is dead. They want to do away with the infinite sustain builds. which we all agree they should. So lets give it a chance. if it doesnt work, zos will revert things back. we've seen changes changed back again. They moved their direction based on direct player feedback

For sorcs theese patch notes are almost the same as playing in no CP campaign. For stamina though in medium there is a major nerf. But i guess ZoS thinks sorcs need some help to be competetive vs other classes. LoL

RMerlin

Xsorus wrote: »

Caltrops:
Multiple player characters can now stack this ability and its morphs in the same area and damage the same target.
Reduced the size of this ability and its morphs to 8 meters from 12 meters.
Reduced the duration of this ability and its morphs to 12 seconds from 30 seconds.
Reduced the cost of this ability and its morphs by approximately 50%.
Increased the damage of this ability and its morphs by approximately 75%.

Look at this ***..

this change right here, makes me instantly lose faith in ZOS

This basically takes a PvP skill, and turn it into a PvE skill without an ounce of thinking as to the effect on PvP. The end result is it will go from being a basic CC form into a pure DPS skill.

I think about a raid of 24 spamming caltrops, Eye of Flame and Magicka Detonation, while wearing VD. Getting through any breach will be "fun"...

ZOS, this is a PvP line skill. Keep it focused 100% on its use in PvP, and give PvE a different PvE AoE if they need it so badly. But don't divert a PvP skill toward PvE - even PvE players are unhappy at having to "grind" PvP levels to gain it.

RMerlin

I agree that they needed to do something regarding resource management, however I'm not optimistic about these listed changes. Personally I was a big fan of the original soft cap mechanics. Yes, it made maths more complicated. But having some form of soft capping or diminishing return curves ensures that you can't just stack everything into one specific stat, and get Godly results out of that one single stats. It already forced us to make more balanced builds, rather than the almost universal 50-0-0 balance (or close to it) we all use with our primary stat.

Having some level of complexity should be expected. This is an RPG, not a FPS.

Rickter

rmerlb16_ESO wrote: »

I think about a raid of 24 spamming caltrops, Eye of Flame and Magicka Detonation, while wearing VD. Getting through any breach will be "fun"...

ZOS, this is a PvP line skill. Keep it focused 100% on its use in PvP, and give PvE a different PvE AoE if they need it so badly. But don't divert a PvP skill toward PvE - even PvE players are unhappy at having to "grind" PvP levels to gain it.

This. I was a little surprised that they actually converted this to a pve skill without moving it into a pve skill line. and it bothers me that they are encouraging the conformity to the META. again a META is the game developed outside of the game so to speak. The PLAYERS decided caltrops was a good source of PvE DoT dmg, not ZOS. but now ZOS is embracing that logic and conforming to a meta which no longer makes it a meta which kinda defeated the whole purpose! kind of a slap in the face.

Sallington

rmerlb16_ESO wrote: »

Xsorus wrote: »

Caltrops:
Multiple player characters can now stack this ability and its morphs in the same area and damage the same target.
Reduced the size of this ability and its morphs to 8 meters from 12 meters.
Reduced the duration of this ability and its morphs to 12 seconds from 30 seconds.
Reduced the cost of this ability and its morphs by approximately 50%.
Increased the damage of this ability and its morphs by approximately 75%.

Look at this ***..

this change right here, makes me instantly lose faith in ZOS

This basically takes a PvP skill, and turn it into a PvE skill without an ounce of thinking as to the effect on PvP. The end result is it will go from being a basic CC form into a pure DPS skill.

I think about a raid of 24 spamming caltrops, Eye of Flame and Magicka Detonation, while wearing VD. Getting through any breach will be "fun"...

ZOS, this is a PvP line skill. Keep it focused 100% on its use in PvP, and give PvE a different PvE AoE if they need it so badly. But don't divert a PvP skill toward PvE - even PvE players are unhappy at having to "grind" PvP levels to gain it.

Seriously! Put something in the freaking Undaunted skill line if PvE needs a non-class, non-weapon ground AOE.

Derra

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Rickter wrote: »

@Derra - how is sustain way worse on the pts than it is on a noCP campaign? I didnt see too many skills cost increase in the patch notes just the changes to CP which arent taken into consideration on the no CP pvp campaigns.

as the the OP - i dont think small scale is dead. They want to do away with the infinite sustain builds. which we all agree they should. So lets give it a chance. if it doesnt work, zos will revert things back. we've seen changes changed back again. They moved their direction based on direct player feedback

I´ve also never seen a true infinite sustain build that also dealt dmg (excluding harness).

Really?

Honestly. Not really no. Unkillable tanks - yes. People that were a real threat (by other means than healing their allies) - nope.

Speaking from a duo perspective here.

Neloth

Idk, my dark conversion magsorc sustain won't change at all.

#trollface

Master_Kas

rmerlb16_ESO wrote: »

I agree that they needed to do something regarding resource management, however I'm not optimistic about these listed changes. Personally I was a big fan of the original soft cap mechanics. Yes, it made maths more complicated. But having some form of soft capping or diminishing return curves ensures that you can't just stack everything into one specific stat, and get Godly results out of that one single stats. It already forced us to make more balanced builds, rather than the almost universal 50-0-0 balance (or close to it) we all use with our primary stat.

Having some level of complexity should be expected. This is an RPG, not a FPS.

WTB 1.5 with minor tweaks.

Blackfyre20

Quantum_V wrote: »

Vanguard’s Challenge
2 - Maximum Health
3 - Maximum Health
4 - Healing Taken
5 - When you taunt an enemy Player, they deal 50% less damage to all other Players but 100% more damage to you for 15 seconds.


Can somebody tell me this is not true?

This isn't real right?

KingJ

Blackfyre20 wrote: »

Quantum_V wrote: »

Vanguard’s Challenge
2 - Maximum Health
3 - Maximum Health
4 - Healing Taken
5 - When you taunt an enemy Player, they deal 50% less damage to all other Players but 100% more damage to you for 15 seconds.


Can somebody tell me this is not true?

This isn't real right?

It's real one of the BG set you can test if you aren't invited to the morrowwind beta.

CavalryPK

Quantum_V wrote: »

Vanguard’s Challenge
2 - Maximum Health
3 - Maximum Health
4 - Healing Taken
5 - When you taunt an enemy Player, they deal 50% less damage to all other Players but 100% more damage to you for 15 seconds.


Can somebody tell me this is not true?

Wow. I see a taunt that could actually work on a real player. It gives incentive for the player to Focus DPS on you versus your mates. or force them the retread and regroup. If this is actually a thing...

Magus

I have played this game for its entirety with the exception of playing Wildstar during the caltrop bug a month after launch where standing in caltrops made you invincible and absorb all siege damage. With this new caltops change, I fear that will be the thing to make me quit again depending on how it plays out. I can already picture a keep breach or a flag having 30 caltrops on it, each ticking for a minimum of 2k damage. Stepping onto a keep flag will instantly kill you with one tick doing 60k DPS. Not to mention everywhere being a snare. Yeah, no thanks.

Minno

Derra wrote: »

Rickter wrote: »

but with it being a global "nerf" instead of class specific, you could go cost reduct jewels glyph instead of spell/weap dmg glyphs and still be able to fight like you do now. you wont notice the loss of the dmg glyphs because everyone will need to build for sustain more thoughtfully now than ever before.

almost like it was all planned that way. .

Are you reading what i wrote?

I already don´t enchant full dmg and i don´t know any light or medium armor builds that does without running out of recources except for harness hardened stacking sorcs (which i think should have been nerfed).

Flip side, all that CP normally spent on resource Regen will not be spent on stam/defense cost reductions.

And resistance now equals 5280 at 100 CP, completely negating sharpened with thick skin/Ironclad being the major dmg reductions replacing hardy/Elemental defender.

They might need to tinker with the Regen, but I would like for them to review the sets we have and see if the resource return "flavors" can make up the nerf while also adding counter play.

TheBonesXXX

PvP ability being changed for PvE. Man carebears are spoiled.