Regarding patch 3.0: time for open-world smallscalers to pack their bags

Kay1

Quantum_V wrote: »

Vanguard’s Challenge
2 - Maximum Health
3 - Maximum Health
4 - Healing Taken
5 - When you taunt an enemy Player, they deal 50% less damage to all other Players but 100% more damage to you for 15 seconds.


Can somebody tell me this is not true?

I can't wait to have that 48k stam dk spamming this on me while I'm running on my tree

Wrubius_Coronaria

Fasold666 wrote: »

I really don't know why ZOS is making it easier for zerg players with every single patch. Now even the weird bow light attack spammer/lightning staff heavy attack spammer will have their use...
The amount of solo players (real ones, not the 'solo players' that run with 10 other 'solo players') is highly decreasing every patch. How can one mess up the pvp potential so bad?? ( this game definately used to have it)

You really have no idea? The reason is quite simple in fact, and they're even repeating that in every new patch notes (almost).
Raising the floor and lowering the ceiling. (reducing the gap between experienced players and beginners). That's all. And by doing this, the game is accessible, easily playable to a large number of players.

The consequence with that is skilled gameplay (especially smallscale and 1vsX) become more difficult for many reasons. For example : changes to batlle spirit (reducing the healing received to 50% from 20% was the first wich affected a lot solo players), the removal of dynamic ultimates, poisons cost increase, snares, nerfs to streak, dodgeroll and sprint, proc sets. Skilled gameplay is less important than gear nowadays. and the list continue.
Edit : I'm sure how the map of cyrodiil is designed and the important deftick encourage players for zerging more.

And it also change badly the behaviour of the less experienced players. Wich are zerging more for many reasons. Like they don't play with a pvp guild, they don't group with others, have no clue about how to play with a decent level and stick with others randoms for increase their survivability and they're following their zergs faction. Less pvp guilds than after game release. This is why this game is more zerg friendly actually.

Yesterday, I came back a short moment in pvp (non cp azura) after one month break and I regret it already. After fews minutes played, my feeling were mostly negative. I do no agree with Zenimax and lot of change they made, but the behaviour of players is also a important part of these problems.
Pvp is fun in my opinion (when it's not all about zergs, but these moments are too rare now). But trying to find some good fights and being constantly crushed by 10+ players and nothing else, because nobody want to lose time to time and want easy alliance points and victory turn the experience in something extremely frustrating. The funniest is a lot of players avoid 1vs1 or smaller fights for coming back with large numbers.

Derra

Shazah wrote: »

Fasold666 wrote: »

I really don't know why ZOS is making it easier for zerg players with every single patch. Now even the weird bow light attack spammer/lightning staff heavy attack spammer will have their use...
The amount of solo players (real ones, not the 'solo players' that run with 10 other 'solo players') is highly decreasing every patch. How can one mess up the pvp potential so bad?? ( this game definately used to have it)

You really have no idea? The reason is quite simple in fact, and they're even repeating that in every new patch notes (almost).
Raising the floor and lowering the ceiling. (reducing the gap between experienced players and beginners). That's all. And by doing this, the game is accessible, easily playable to a large number of players.

The problem with this is - eventually the game becomes unenjoyable for most hardcore players of any form or shape.
Those on the other hand are vital for a games survival and growth as those players tend to be content creators (twitch, addons, theorycrafting, youtube guides etc.).

The problem really is: As a developer you can´t fix stupid - but they can "fix" smart.

Rickter

You're still going to have to deal with heavy armor perma blockers. so i wouldnt count heavy armor wearers out just yet. We;re still going to have to deal with them and they will need to be focused and or burst down.

AhPook_Is_Here

Quantum_V wrote: »

Vanguard’s Challenge
2 - Maximum Health
3 - Maximum Health
4 - Healing Taken
5 - When you taunt an enemy Player, they deal 50% less damage to all other Players but 100% more damage to you for 15 seconds.


Can somebody tell me this is not true?

That's the way taunts worked in Warhammer online for the most part (without the bonus damage to the taunter and without a set to make it work). The point of taunts debuffing damage was to make tanks useful in pvp and boy were they, nothing like a chosen tank running guard over a line of nasty sorcerers and zealots CCing in blobs.

Didn't some of the devs come from there? I'm surprised this wasn't in at launch as it was really one of the best pvp applications for tanking ever innovated imo.

ManDraKE

Rickter wrote: »

You're still going to have to deal with heavy armor perma blockers. so i wouldnt count heavy armor wearers out just yet. We;re still going to have to deal with them and they will need to be focused and or burst down.

with block draining twice as much stamina, and constitution nerfed (plus other sustain nerfs), is going to be really hard -if not imposible- to permablock, you will run out of stam quickly. That being said, the idiotic 1h&s ultimate needs a cost increase, you don't even need to permablock nowadays, just hold block till you generate enought ultimate

OdinForge

False. Good players will continue to adapt, the nerfs affect everyone and everyone will be easier to kill especially bad players.

You will still get 1vX'd and still 1vX.

DHale

Small group of 6 killing solo players will still be a thing. I promise.

Wrubius_Coronaria

Derra wrote: »

The problem with this is - eventually the game becomes unenjoyable for most hardcore players of any form or shape.
Those on the other hand are vital for a games survival and growth as those players tend to be content creators (twitch, addons, theorycrafting, youtube guides etc.).

The problem really is: As a developer you can´t fix stupid - but they can "fix" smart.

Populars mmo like ESO works as a consensus. They try to satisfy the larger number, playerbase. Not a minority of players to the detriment of the majority.

Most 1vsX and smallscalers adepts are not representative of the average pvp population.

And I disagree with that statement, they're not totally vital for the survivability of the game. They're helpfull for keep the interest in game for some kind of players, no more.

They fixed already some stupids things in the past, but the root of problems is, they should stop to delete many tools for some playstyles. So yes, they can fix stupid, but the behaviour of players is quite difficult to modify or predict with some changes from their perspectives (developpers).

Quantum_V

AhPook_Is_Here wrote: »

Quantum_V wrote: »

Vanguard’s Challenge
2 - Maximum Health
3 - Maximum Health
4 - Healing Taken
5 - When you taunt an enemy Player, they deal 50% less damage to all other Players but 100% more damage to you for 15 seconds.


Can somebody tell me this is not true?

That's the way taunts worked in Warhammer online for the most part (without the bonus damage to the taunter and without a set to make it work). The point of taunts debuffing damage was to make tanks useful in pvp and boy were they, nothing like a chosen tank running guard over a line of nasty sorcerers and zealots CCing in blobs.

Didn't some of the devs come from there? I'm surprised this wasn't in at launch as it was really one of the best pvp applications for tanking ever innovated imo.

This set has literally no use in Cyrodiil apart form zerging solo players down. In a XvX situation, a single player getting debuffed is not even considerable to the outcome of the fight, tanks will continue to be useless in these scenarios. But hey, now tanks can contribute to zerging solo players down, right? 'Cause having 6 guys hitting a solo player wasn't a good enough advantage, now the solo player deals 50% less damage... That's pretty cool.

Qbiken

Subversus wrote: »

Admit it you're salty cause they absolutely destroyed magdk sustain

Implying that magdk had sustain to begin with xD (beside from resourcgain from using ultimates, which is also getting nerfed in the next patch)

rfennell_ESO

AhPook_Is_Here wrote: »

Quantum_V wrote: »

Vanguard’s Challenge
2 - Maximum Health
3 - Maximum Health
4 - Healing Taken
5 - When you taunt an enemy Player, they deal 50% less damage to all other Players but 100% more damage to you for 15 seconds.


Can somebody tell me this is not true?

That's the way taunts worked in Warhammer online for the most part (without the bonus damage to the taunter and without a set to make it work). The point of taunts debuffing damage was to make tanks useful in pvp and boy were they, nothing like a chosen tank running guard over a line of nasty sorcerers and zealots CCing in blobs.

Didn't some of the devs come from there? I'm surprised this wasn't in at launch as it was really one of the best pvp applications for tanking ever innovated imo.

You should have seen the way they made taunts (many of which were frontal cones) work in EQ2.

The taunt forced you to switch targets to the tank and you couldn't change targets for the duration...

It made for some very interesting group fights.

AhPook_Is_Here

rfennell_ESO wrote: »

AhPook_Is_Here wrote: »

Quantum_V wrote: »

Vanguard’s Challenge
2 - Maximum Health
3 - Maximum Health
4 - Healing Taken
5 - When you taunt an enemy Player, they deal 50% less damage to all other Players but 100% more damage to you for 15 seconds.


Can somebody tell me this is not true?

That's the way taunts worked in Warhammer online for the most part (without the bonus damage to the taunter and without a set to make it work). The point of taunts debuffing damage was to make tanks useful in pvp and boy were they, nothing like a chosen tank running guard over a line of nasty sorcerers and zealots CCing in blobs.

Didn't some of the devs come from there? I'm surprised this wasn't in at launch as it was really one of the best pvp applications for tanking ever innovated imo.

You should have seen the way they made taunts (many of which were frontal cones) work in EQ2.

The taunt forced you to switch targets to the tank and you couldn't change targets for the duration...

It made for some very interesting group fights.

I bet that was received with some mixed emotions. I missed eq2, had a few friends playing it but never took it for a spin. I can just see it now, 2 tanks circling each other trying to stay out of each others cones will taunting the opposing tank's friends so they can soak without being soaked.

Xsorus

Pfft, If you think Taunting in Warhammer or EQ2 was nasty you should of seen how it worked in Rift with its original PvP line passive for Warriors

It bloody let Tanks apply a 15 second 65% damage debuff on the target with taunts, that you couldn't purge

And you could build your rank to have two 15 Second Single Target Ones, and two 15 second AOE taunts.

Anyway i'm going to run the set on my Nightblade as a support build

Tremors/Transmuation/Vanguards.

Going to run around debuffing and buffing people and ruining their day.

rfennell_ESO

AhPook_Is_Here wrote: »

rfennell_ESO wrote: »

AhPook_Is_Here wrote: »

Quantum_V wrote: »

Vanguard’s Challenge
2 - Maximum Health
3 - Maximum Health
4 - Healing Taken
5 - When you taunt an enemy Player, they deal 50% less damage to all other Players but 100% more damage to you for 15 seconds.


Can somebody tell me this is not true?

That's the way taunts worked in Warhammer online for the most part (without the bonus damage to the taunter and without a set to make it work). The point of taunts debuffing damage was to make tanks useful in pvp and boy were they, nothing like a chosen tank running guard over a line of nasty sorcerers and zealots CCing in blobs.

Didn't some of the devs come from there? I'm surprised this wasn't in at launch as it was really one of the best pvp applications for tanking ever innovated imo.

You should have seen the way they made taunts (many of which were frontal cones) work in EQ2.

The taunt forced you to switch targets to the tank and you couldn't change targets for the duration...

It made for some very interesting group fights.

I bet that was received with some mixed emotions. I missed eq2, had a few friends playing it but never took it for a spin. I can just see it now, 2 tanks circling each other trying to stay out of each others cones will taunting the opposing tank's friends so they can soak without being soaked.

It really turned into the dps trying to time the tanks taunt and evade it so they could unload on the healers.

It was a real healer battle while the tanks were up and maintaining taunts on the opposing group. While the tank taunt forced your target focus on the tank, you could still aoe the tank.

Lucky28

Quantum_V wrote: »

AhPook_Is_Here wrote: »

Quantum_V wrote: »

Vanguard’s Challenge
2 - Maximum Health
3 - Maximum Health
4 - Healing Taken
5 - When you taunt an enemy Player, they deal 50% less damage to all other Players but 100% more damage to you for 15 seconds.


Can somebody tell me this is not true?

That's the way taunts worked in Warhammer online for the most part (without the bonus damage to the taunter and without a set to make it work). The point of taunts debuffing damage was to make tanks useful in pvp and boy were they, nothing like a chosen tank running guard over a line of nasty sorcerers and zealots CCing in blobs.

Didn't some of the devs come from there? I'm surprised this wasn't in at launch as it was really one of the best pvp applications for tanking ever innovated imo.

This set has literally no use in Cyrodiil apart form zerging solo players down. In a XvX situation, a single player getting debuffed is not even considerable to the outcome of the fight, tanks will continue to be useless in these scenarios. But hey, now tanks can contribute to zerging solo players down, right? 'Cause having 6 guys hitting a solo player wasn't a good enough advantage, now the solo player deals 50% less damage... That's pretty cool.

that's assuming there are any solo players left after this patch. it's gonna be so zergy, i guarantee it

Fatalyis

DHale wrote: »

Small group of 6 killing solo players will still be a thing. I promise.

Ha yeah...that's the truth...and teabagging you afterwards

glavius

AhPook_Is_Here wrote: »

Quantum_V wrote: »

Vanguard’s Challenge
2 - Maximum Health
3 - Maximum Health
4 - Healing Taken
5 - When you taunt an enemy Player, they deal 50% less damage to all other Players but 100% more damage to you for 15 seconds.


Can somebody tell me this is not true?

That's the way taunts worked in Warhammer online for the most part (without the bonus damage to the taunter and without a set to make it work). The point of taunts debuffing damage was to make tanks useful in pvp and boy were they, nothing like a chosen tank running guard over a line of nasty sorcerers and zealots CCing in blobs.

Didn't some of the devs come from there? I'm surprised this wasn't in at launch as it was really one of the best pvp applications for tanking ever innovated imo.

Taunts in warhammer were more balanced. It was 30% value, there was a very clear animation showing you were taunted, and you could hit the taunter 3 times to clear it. Worked well there.

Anazasi

alan_jaff wrote: »

Congratulations ZOS, you're in the process of successfully taking away all the available tools for solo/smallscale players in open-world PvP.

If we look at the context as a whole, with the latest patches ZOS removed counterplay almost entirely while being outnumbered, with the way certain abilities functions. (Unbashable SA, effective projectiles that can no longer be reflectable, undodgable/unblockable abilities & ultimates).

Now they've basically nerfed all sources of sustain significantly, including some sets for both magicka and stamina that could provide efficient sustain-to-damage ratios.

So what will happen in 3.0? Shocker! The non-counterable mechanics that are largely used becomes much more efficient due to the outnumbered people getting worn down easier than ever, in addition to not being able to pressure people 1vX in comparision to before due to the ways you'll have to itemize. Which leads to VERY LITTLE room to outplay.

I really don't want to be that guy but I have to say that this is the last straw for every smallscaler. Unironically, a majority of every patch note's balance section is like taking away from the poor and give to the rich. Within every patch you guys keep making this a numbers game, where is the fun and excitement in that? And let's be honest here, the only people that has been satisfied with the so called "balance changes" are probably the ones getting defeated while outnumbering you, like they should've been because they obviously lack game-knowledge. Yet you keep rewarding these players and engourage dumbed down game mechanics.

Although, I do get that you guys want to cater a wider audience. However, you aren't thinking of the negative consequences AT ALL.

For somebody that have been playing on and off since beta, I've seen every stage that this game has gone through. Legitimately, for years ZOS have been told by the community in BIG quantities
"don't do this, don't do that", whenever they've gone ahead with a change that could potentially be game-breaking.

I'm starting to assume that, the whole concept of smallscale in Cyrodiil is some kind of unwanted activity that you guys at ZOS want to get rid off entirely. If you keep up with this game design philosophy then have fun with losing parts of your loyal playerbase.

Conclusion:

ZOS have just came to a point where they've power crept the game substantially. What I mean is that every release of new content cause unbalance.

Game developers are primarily doing this to push new content/DLCs, as it gives an incentive to buy it for new player experiences. (This is where battlegorunds comes in to the picture). And I think we all can agree that they've gutted solo play in Cyrodiil COMPLETELY for majority of the classes.

Ultimately ZOS have effectively rendered Cyrodiil useless from a skill/competitive/challenge-seeking viewpoint. Good job!

So, if you fail to acknowledge the real points I'm making on the initial post regarding the core game mechanics and how it will play out, and you think that opting for a heavily sustain-based build or vice versa will help you in solo play. Then I honestly think you've not understood my complete thought process.

I don't care if X or Y are going to use A and B now, what I care about is how surprisingly stupid they've handled everything and not taken care of stuff seperately that clearly was the issue. They're obviously just bringing in more issues to the game.

If you're a solo player, this game will no longer provide a CONSISTENT GOOD GAME EXPERIENCE due to game mechanics. Of course it will work sometimes, but what's the point of playing and seeking a playstyle in content that's not virtually viable 95% of the time?

Any relevant thoughts or questions? Then type below.

Thanks.

Edit: pasted one of my answers from the comment section to the main topic because it covered a lot.

Edit 2: added my conclusion in response to my initial post to provide a more in-depth explanation of my thought processes and opinions.

I hear small scale is moving to battlegrounds? Wonder if that might work for you.

Derra

Anazasi wrote: »

alan_jaff wrote: »

Congratulations ZOS, you're in the process of successfully taking away all the available tools for solo/smallscale players in open-world PvP.

If we look at the context as a whole, with the latest patches ZOS removed counterplay almost entirely while being outnumbered, with the way certain abilities functions. (Unbashable SA, effective projectiles that can no longer be reflectable, undodgable/unblockable abilities & ultimates).

Now they've basically nerfed all sources of sustain significantly, including some sets for both magicka and stamina that could provide efficient sustain-to-damage ratios.

So what will happen in 3.0? Shocker! The non-counterable mechanics that are largely used becomes much more efficient due to the outnumbered people getting worn down easier than ever, in addition to not being able to pressure people 1vX in comparision to before due to the ways you'll have to itemize. Which leads to VERY LITTLE room to outplay.

I really don't want to be that guy but I have to say that this is the last straw for every smallscaler. Unironically, a majority of every patch note's balance section is like taking away from the poor and give to the rich. Within every patch you guys keep making this a numbers game, where is the fun and excitement in that? And let's be honest here, the only people that has been satisfied with the so called "balance changes" are probably the ones getting defeated while outnumbering you, like they should've been because they obviously lack game-knowledge. Yet you keep rewarding these players and engourage dumbed down game mechanics.

Although, I do get that you guys want to cater a wider audience. However, you aren't thinking of the negative consequences AT ALL.

For somebody that have been playing on and off since beta, I've seen every stage that this game has gone through. Legitimately, for years ZOS have been told by the community in BIG quantities
"don't do this, don't do that", whenever they've gone ahead with a change that could potentially be game-breaking.

I'm starting to assume that, the whole concept of smallscale in Cyrodiil is some kind of unwanted activity that you guys at ZOS want to get rid off entirely. If you keep up with this game design philosophy then have fun with losing parts of your loyal playerbase.

Conclusion:

ZOS have just came to a point where they've power crept the game substantially. What I mean is that every release of new content cause unbalance.

Game developers are primarily doing this to push new content/DLCs, as it gives an incentive to buy it for new player experiences. (This is where battlegorunds comes in to the picture). And I think we all can agree that they've gutted solo play in Cyrodiil COMPLETELY for majority of the classes.

Ultimately ZOS have effectively rendered Cyrodiil useless from a skill/competitive/challenge-seeking viewpoint. Good job!

So, if you fail to acknowledge the real points I'm making on the initial post regarding the core game mechanics and how it will play out, and you think that opting for a heavily sustain-based build or vice versa will help you in solo play. Then I honestly think you've not understood my complete thought process.

I don't care if X or Y are going to use A and B now, what I care about is how surprisingly stupid they've handled everything and not taken care of stuff seperately that clearly was the issue. They're obviously just bringing in more issues to the game.

If you're a solo player, this game will no longer provide a CONSISTENT GOOD GAME EXPERIENCE due to game mechanics. Of course it will work sometimes, but what's the point of playing and seeking a playstyle in content that's not virtually viable 95% of the time?

Any relevant thoughts or questions? Then type below.

Thanks.

Edit: pasted one of my answers from the comment section to the main topic because it covered a lot.

Edit 2: added my conclusion in response to my initial post to provide a more in-depth explanation of my thought processes and opinions.

I hear small scale is moving to battlegrounds? Wonder if that might work for you.

No CP no battlegrounds for some people

Lucky28

Anazasi wrote: »

alan_jaff wrote: »

Congratulations ZOS, you're in the process of successfully taking away all the available tools for solo/smallscale players in open-world PvP.

If we look at the context as a whole, with the latest patches ZOS removed counterplay almost entirely while being outnumbered, with the way certain abilities functions. (Unbashable SA, effective projectiles that can no longer be reflectable, undodgable/unblockable abilities & ultimates).

Now they've basically nerfed all sources of sustain significantly, including some sets for both magicka and stamina that could provide efficient sustain-to-damage ratios.

So what will happen in 3.0? Shocker! The non-counterable mechanics that are largely used becomes much more efficient due to the outnumbered people getting worn down easier than ever, in addition to not being able to pressure people 1vX in comparision to before due to the ways you'll have to itemize. Which leads to VERY LITTLE room to outplay.

I really don't want to be that guy but I have to say that this is the last straw for every smallscaler. Unironically, a majority of every patch note's balance section is like taking away from the poor and give to the rich. Within every patch you guys keep making this a numbers game, where is the fun and excitement in that? And let's be honest here, the only people that has been satisfied with the so called "balance changes" are probably the ones getting defeated while outnumbering you, like they should've been because they obviously lack game-knowledge. Yet you keep rewarding these players and engourage dumbed down game mechanics.

Although, I do get that you guys want to cater a wider audience. However, you aren't thinking of the negative consequences AT ALL.

For somebody that have been playing on and off since beta, I've seen every stage that this game has gone through. Legitimately, for years ZOS have been told by the community in BIG quantities
"don't do this, don't do that", whenever they've gone ahead with a change that could potentially be game-breaking.

I'm starting to assume that, the whole concept of smallscale in Cyrodiil is some kind of unwanted activity that you guys at ZOS want to get rid off entirely. If you keep up with this game design philosophy then have fun with losing parts of your loyal playerbase.

Conclusion:

ZOS have just came to a point where they've power crept the game substantially. What I mean is that every release of new content cause unbalance.

Game developers are primarily doing this to push new content/DLCs, as it gives an incentive to buy it for new player experiences. (This is where battlegorunds comes in to the picture). And I think we all can agree that they've gutted solo play in Cyrodiil COMPLETELY for majority of the classes.

Ultimately ZOS have effectively rendered Cyrodiil useless from a skill/competitive/challenge-seeking viewpoint. Good job!

So, if you fail to acknowledge the real points I'm making on the initial post regarding the core game mechanics and how it will play out, and you think that opting for a heavily sustain-based build or vice versa will help you in solo play. Then I honestly think you've not understood my complete thought process.

I don't care if X or Y are going to use A and B now, what I care about is how surprisingly stupid they've handled everything and not taken care of stuff seperately that clearly was the issue. They're obviously just bringing in more issues to the game.

If you're a solo player, this game will no longer provide a CONSISTENT GOOD GAME EXPERIENCE due to game mechanics. Of course it will work sometimes, but what's the point of playing and seeking a playstyle in content that's not virtually viable 95% of the time?

Any relevant thoughts or questions? Then type below.

Thanks.

Edit: pasted one of my answers from the comment section to the main topic because it covered a lot.

Edit 2: added my conclusion in response to my initial post to provide a more in-depth explanation of my thought processes and opinions.

I hear small scale is moving to battlegrounds? Wonder if that might work for you.

that's everyone's answer to that complaint, but it's no excuse. there is a difference between battlegrounds and open world solo/small scale PvP.

NBrookus

Indeed. BGs are like an appetizer... and will eventually get dull with the same layouts and scoring.

Takllin

Xsorus wrote: »

Caltrops:
Multiple player characters can now stack this ability and its morphs in the same area and damage the same target.
Reduced the size of this ability and its morphs to 8 meters from 12 meters.
Reduced the duration of this ability and its morphs to 12 seconds from 30 seconds.
Reduced the cost of this ability and its morphs by approximately 50%.
Increased the damage of this ability and its morphs by approximately 75%.

Look at this ***..

this change right here, makes me instantly lose faith in ZOS

I'm going to get a full raid at some point to all throw caltrops on the same breach and watch people melt instantly to 24k dps

zyk

I would love 3.0.0 from a small group/solo POV if not for

- Caltrops change
- CP siphoner (change this to effect HP regen only?)
- New sets like the taunt set; taunts should not be relevant in PVP outside of emotes and perhaps tells

What really bothers me about the Caltrops change is that from a PVP POV it is an example of a balanced, well-implemented ability. It's part of an Alliance War skill line but is being changed to for trials?!! @ZOS_BrianWheeler please help!

Cathexis

Lucky28 wrote: »

Quantum_V wrote: »

AhPook_Is_Here wrote: »

Quantum_V wrote: »

Vanguard’s Challenge
2 - Maximum Health
3 - Maximum Health
4 - Healing Taken
5 - When you taunt an enemy Player, they deal 50% less damage to all other Players but 100% more damage to you for 15 seconds.


Can somebody tell me this is not true?

That's the way taunts worked in Warhammer online for the most part (without the bonus damage to the taunter and without a set to make it work). The point of taunts debuffing damage was to make tanks useful in pvp and boy were they, nothing like a chosen tank running guard over a line of nasty sorcerers and zealots CCing in blobs.

Didn't some of the devs come from there? I'm surprised this wasn't in at launch as it was really one of the best pvp applications for tanking ever innovated imo.

This set has literally no use in Cyrodiil apart form zerging solo players down. In a XvX situation, a single player getting debuffed is not even considerable to the outcome of the fight, tanks will continue to be useless in these scenarios. But hey, now tanks can contribute to zerging solo players down, right? 'Cause having 6 guys hitting a solo player wasn't a good enough advantage, now the solo player deals 50% less damage... That's pretty cool.

that's assuming there are any solo players left after this patch. it's gonna be so zergy, i guarantee it

Sanct16

Takllin wrote: »

Xsorus wrote: »

Caltrops:
Multiple player characters can now stack this ability and its morphs in the same area and damage the same target.
Reduced the size of this ability and its morphs to 8 meters from 12 meters.
Reduced the duration of this ability and its morphs to 12 seconds from 30 seconds.
Reduced the cost of this ability and its morphs by approximately 50%.
Increased the damage of this ability and its morphs by approximately 75%.

Look at this ***..

this change right here, makes me instantly lose faith in ZOS

I'm going to get a full raid at some point to all throw caltrops on the same breach and watch people melt instantly to 24k dps

And then the breach gets negated and you feel stupid.

IxSTALKERxI

Sanct16 wrote: »

Takllin wrote: »

Xsorus wrote: »

Caltrops:
Multiple player characters can now stack this ability and its morphs in the same area and damage the same target.
Reduced the size of this ability and its morphs to 8 meters from 12 meters.
Reduced the duration of this ability and its morphs to 12 seconds from 30 seconds.
Reduced the cost of this ability and its morphs by approximately 50%.
Increased the damage of this ability and its morphs by approximately 75%.

Look at this ***..

this change right here, makes me instantly lose faith in ZOS

I'm going to get a full raid at some point to all throw caltrops on the same breach and watch people melt instantly to 24k dps

And then the breach gets negated and you feel stupid.

Pretty much.

We used to stack caltrops in tower farms back when they still had doors and when caltrops stacked but even that could sometimes get negated through the wall.

RMerlin

Sanct16 wrote: »

Takllin wrote: »

Xsorus wrote: »

Caltrops:
Multiple player characters can now stack this ability and its morphs in the same area and damage the same target.
Reduced the size of this ability and its morphs to 8 meters from 12 meters.
Reduced the duration of this ability and its morphs to 12 seconds from 30 seconds.
Reduced the cost of this ability and its morphs by approximately 50%.
Increased the damage of this ability and its morphs by approximately 75%.

Look at this ***..

this change right here, makes me instantly lose faith in ZOS

I'm going to get a full raid at some point to all throw caltrops on the same breach and watch people melt instantly to 24k dps

And then the breach gets negated and you feel stupid.

Caltrops can easily be recast (and they even reduced the casting cost on it). Negate, not so much.