What's the point of running Templar healers now? (PTS natch potes)

Callous2208

I have yet to read it all. Someone give me a quick recap. Is my nord stamplar a god among mortals now?

Illurian

KochDerDamonen wrote: »

Illurian wrote: »

KochDerDamonen wrote: »

Illurian wrote: »

KochDerDamonen wrote: »

Lyserus wrote: »

KochDerDamonen wrote: »

This is a good thing.

Templars were never good healers/supports, they've been broken. Any class can dps, any class can tank (DK and NB moreso in vTrials) but you might maybe see a sorc off-healer rarely.

Down with the op free sustain

so...are u saying

Make any class can dps
Make any class can tank
Templar is never good healer, they are not best dps and tank either, they are just broken so nerf them even more
Sorceror can doing anything best, but not healer, so let them op at healling too?

@Lyserus I'm saying Templar was not providing a healthy amount of support and healing, they were grossly over-supplying in both categories and preventing other classes from even being a choice. They should have received dps-usability and mitigation buffs in the same patch, but the nerfs to their healing and utility is absolutely justified.

I say this as someone who mains a templar healer.

By this logic, magsorcs should also be thrown off a cliff. Why play a magicka dps that isn't a Sorcerer? But no, they weren't even touched.

Templar may have over-compensated in terms of resource support live, but with the global CP changes and overall resource reduction, I would argue that current Templars would have had an adequate amount of resource support.

@Illurian i did not say anything about sorcerers being fine, did i? This contradicts nothing of what I had said. Regardless of the status of the classes in terms of dps and mitigation disparity, templar has provided too much group health and resource sustain. It provided more than other classes, and more than was necessary to complete any content while othet classes could barely provide any resource support and less health.

Exactly, Templars had a niche of being chosen as healers. DKs (and NBs) worked great as tanks, and Sorcerers as dps because god damage.

You might have had a case if you advocated reducing the amount of resource support Templars provided, but agreeing with its removal entirely is simply a knee-jerk reaction that isn't justified, especially taking into account the global resource management nerfs. There is literally no reason to run a Templar at all. They aren't the best tanks, aren't the best dps, and now aren't the best healers.

It is precisely not my fault that Zos doesn't have balance in whack. When the reason to use templars as healers is "no one else can restore a noticable fraction of the resources" my thought is that it's broken. It's not a good unique reason to use a class for something if they're simply the only one that can do it correctly.

I stand by saying the nerf is justified. I also think the classes are imbalanced and suffer from a lack of (or too much) identity. Enemies all take the same damage from different damage types, crits, no locational damage, no reason to want to be in melee range over ranged. Hence there's very little zos can do to make the classes unique without just giving them a very core mechanic that is necessary to perform a role and keeping it from others.

Abolish classes, make mobs more varied that meaningful unique traits could be given to the classes without shoehorning them into a role, or club classes into dedicated roles. These are the three extremes that ESO seems deadly afraid to move towards. Until they do, we're in a limbo of imbalance where everything 'works' up until certain content difficulties.

So you can't say "huh huh blame ZoS, not me" and then also say "I totally agree with ZoS" when discussing changes. You are either for or against. Also, no one is blaming you for the changes, but discussing/debating on why they are/aren't justified.

It is precisely a good reason to use a class because of its unique capability. That is what creates niches. It is, imo, good for certain classes to excel at certain aspects of the game and fall behind in others. Templars fall behind in tanking and dps, but excelled at healing due to resource support. That is was a unique niche, and wasn't a bad thing.

Nerouyn

Illurian wrote: »

Uhm. Read the bolded part again. Both morphs are affected.

Conceded and that's not what I would have done. I would have left one morph pbaoe so that there's an additional effect morph of both styles.

Though at least you can just not morph it if you prefer pbaoe.

Illurian wrote: »

And yet Wardens will get perma major mending, but you don't seem to have a problem with that.

Why lie? That's sad and desperate.

Wardens can only get class-derived major mending by healing someone under 50% health and if you're throwing out heals to people who are that heavily wounded constantly - which you would need to maintain it permanently - then something's probably horribly wrong.

Illurian wrote: »

Templars have no source of Major Mending now, aside from heavy attacking with the restoration staff.

Nightblades and sorcerers have had to suffer that pretty much since the introduction of the major mending buff.

Now everyone is on a more equal footing. Awesome.

Firerock2

Nerouyn wrote: »

Illurian wrote: »

Uhm. Read the bolded part again. Both morphs are affected.

Conceded and that's not what I would have done. I would have left one morph pbaoe so that there's an additional effect morph of both styles.

Though at least you can just not morph it if you prefer pbaoe.

Illurian wrote: »

And yet Wardens will get perma major mending, but you don't seem to have a problem with that.

Why lie? That's sad and desperate.

Wardens can only get class-derived major mending by healing someone under 50% health and if you're throwing out heals to people who are that heavily wounded constantly - which you would need to maintain it permanently - then something's probably horribly wrong.

Illurian wrote: »

Templars have no source of Major Mending now, aside from heavy attacking with the restoration staff.

Nightblades and sorcerers have had to suffer that pretty much since the introduction of the major mending buff.

Now everyone is on a more equal footing. Awesome.

Where is Templar's Hardened Ward then? That would be equal footing

idk

It seems that devs wanted to level the playing field for trial healing and such.

Phinix1

Can someone please explain the rationale for yanking away Templar's Major Mending but allowing Warden healers to keep it?

Lyserus

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

On a serious note....I'm done with this game.

I need to figure out how to cancel Morrowind possibly as well.

If y'all need anything I'll read the forums but moving to Elite Dangerous and some GR Wildlands off and on

Hey in all seriousness can you send stuff to me

@Lyserus in PCNA...need anything you willing to give away let the templar fellow hold a bit longer before warden arrives

Cêltic421

Phinix1 wrote: »

Cêltic421 wrote: »

So repentance no longer restores stamina to the group, shards and orbs share the same timer...Ugh

The only good thing I like us now shards will give templars resources. At a cost.

KochDerDamonen wrote: »

This is a good thing.

Templars were never good healers/supports, they've been broken. Any class can dps, any class can tank (DK and NB moreso in vTrials) but you might maybe see a sorc off-healer rarely.

Down with the op free sustain

You are the only one that thinks they are not good healers lol

You forgot that both Shards and Orbs now restore Stamina or Magicka whichever is lower. So if you are a magicka user that just roll dodged, too bad for you no useful resources!

Pointless patch of pointlessness has determined not enough RNG in game. Proceeding to add RNG to critical resource management tools.

Yea I did forget. Like playing lotto.

Cadbury

Well, at least there's one positive for me.

I'll be playing the rarest class in game come June.

Lol

Illurian

Nerouyn wrote: »

Illurian wrote: »

Uhm. Read the bolded part again. Both morphs are affected.

Conceded and that's not what I would have done. I would have left one morph pbaoe so that there's an additional effect morph of both styles.

Though at least you can just not morph it if you prefer pbaoe.

The skill *and* all its morphs are affected. Please read it again.

Also, PBAOE = Point Blank Area of Effect. This means that it hits an area in front of you, not how you think BoL functions currently. (Best example i can think of PBAOE is Puncturing Sweeps).

Nerouyn wrote: »

Why lie? That's sad and desperate.

Why resort to ad hominem? That disregards your entire argument, legitimate or not.

Nerouyn wrote: »

Wardens can only get class-derived major mending by healing someone under 50% health and if you're throwing out heals to people who are that heavily wounded constantly - which you would need to maintain it permanently - then something's probably horribly wrong.

The point is, Wardens will get Major Mending where it counts. With the HoTs running, if your group is at 100% anyway, it doesn't matter if you have Major Mending or not. But once your group starts falling below 50%, you will get Major Mending automatically by simply healing them, which will enable you to burst heal back up to full. Rinse and repeat.

Nerouyn wrote: »

Illurian wrote: »

Templars have no source of Major Mending now, aside from heavy attacking with the restoration staff.

Nightblades and sorcerers have had to suffer that pretty much since the introduction of the major mending buff.

Now everyone is on a more equal footing. Awesome.

Everyone except Wardens.

MaxwellC

As a DK I find the removal of major mending completely stupid for you templars especially when they done screwed repent for the rest of the group.. GG balancing on ZOS; this is the exact reason why I've taken a vacation away from this game.

SaRuZ

Get in line for your next BiS class!

Warden.

Best Healing Class? Warden
Best Tanking Class? Warden
Best DPS Class? Warden

How do I play as a Warden? Buy Morrowind.

Think Warden will get nerfed? Think Again! As long as it is behind a paywall, you too, can be OP for the super low price of 69.99!

KochDerDamonen

Illurian wrote: »

KochDerDamonen wrote: »

Illurian wrote: »

KochDerDamonen wrote: »

Illurian wrote: »

KochDerDamonen wrote: »

Lyserus wrote: »

KochDerDamonen wrote: »

This is a good thing.

Templars were never good healers/supports, they've been broken. Any class can dps, any class can tank (DK and NB moreso in vTrials) but you might maybe see a sorc off-healer rarely.

Down with the op free sustain

so...are u saying

Make any class can dps
Make any class can tank
Templar is never good healer, they are not best dps and tank either, they are just broken so nerf them even more
Sorceror can doing anything best, but not healer, so let them op at healling too?

@Lyserus I'm saying Templar was not providing a healthy amount of support and healing, they were grossly over-supplying in both categories and preventing other classes from even being a choice. They should have received dps-usability and mitigation buffs in the same patch, but the nerfs to their healing and utility is absolutely justified.

I say this as someone who mains a templar healer.

By this logic, magsorcs should also be thrown off a cliff. Why play a magicka dps that isn't a Sorcerer? But no, they weren't even touched.

Templar may have over-compensated in terms of resource support live, but with the global CP changes and overall resource reduction, I would argue that current Templars would have had an adequate amount of resource support.

@Illurian i did not say anything about sorcerers being fine, did i? This contradicts nothing of what I had said. Regardless of the status of the classes in terms of dps and mitigation disparity, templar has provided too much group health and resource sustain. It provided more than other classes, and more than was necessary to complete any content while othet classes could barely provide any resource support and less health.

Exactly, Templars had a niche of being chosen as healers. DKs (and NBs) worked great as tanks, and Sorcerers as dps because god damage.

You might have had a case if you advocated reducing the amount of resource support Templars provided, but agreeing with its removal entirely is simply a knee-jerk reaction that isn't justified, especially taking into account the global resource management nerfs. There is literally no reason to run a Templar at all. They aren't the best tanks, aren't the best dps, and now aren't the best healers.

It is precisely not my fault that Zos doesn't have balance in whack. When the reason to use templars as healers is "no one else can restore a noticable fraction of the resources" my thought is that it's broken. It's not a good unique reason to use a class for something if they're simply the only one that can do it correctly.

I stand by saying the nerf is justified. I also think the classes are imbalanced and suffer from a lack of (or too much) identity. Enemies all take the same damage from different damage types, crits, no locational damage, no reason to want to be in melee range over ranged. Hence there's very little zos can do to make the classes unique without just giving them a very core mechanic that is necessary to perform a role and keeping it from others.

Abolish classes, make mobs more varied that meaningful unique traits could be given to the classes without shoehorning them into a role, or club classes into dedicated roles. These are the three extremes that ESO seems deadly afraid to move towards. Until they do, we're in a limbo of imbalance where everything 'works' up until certain content difficulties.

So you can't say "huh huh blame ZoS, not me" and then also say "I totally agree with ZoS" when discussing changes. You are either for or against. Also, no one is blaming you for the changes, but discussing/debating on why they are/aren't justified.

It is precisely a good reason to use a class because of its unique capability. That is what creates niches. It is, imo, good for certain classes to excel at certain aspects of the game and fall behind in others. Templars fall behind in tanking and dps, but excelled at healing due to resource support. That is was a unique niche, and wasn't a bad thing.

@Illurian I did not say I completely agree with zos. I said the nerfs were justified. I think it's positive to take away this trait of templars that made them the only healers.

I do not agree that 'healer' is an acceptable niche in this game, unless all classes have a definite role to fill. Referring back to my 'three extremes', that would be acceptable if DK was the tank, and Sorc and NB were the mage and rogue dps classes. Currently the game does not work like this, but somewhere dangling inbetween the extremes.

Strider_Roshin

Excellent changes! Reason to still use a Templar Healer? Breath of Life; it's still the easiest healing class in the game; only now other classes can potentially be stronger, but it requires more skill.

Zenimax is finally rewarding skill! Thank God!

zaria

KochDerDamonen wrote: »

Cêltic421 wrote: »

So repentance no longer restores stamina to the group, shards and orbs share the same timer...Ugh

The only good thing I like us now shards will give templars resources. At a cost.

KochDerDamonen wrote: »

This is a good thing.

Templars were never good healers/supports, they've been broken. Any class can dps, any class can tank (DK and NB moreso in vTrials) but you might maybe see a sorc off-healer rarely.

Down with the op free sustain

You are the only one that thinks they are not good healers lol

@Cêltic421 Broken, I said they are not good but broken. As in, they were grossly outperforming other classes while the other classes were mostly incapable of filling the healer role in serious content at all.

Sorry if I worded this in an unclear way.

Templar has an skill line for healing, makes sense they would be the best healers because of that.

DaveMoeDee

How can 180 degrees be a cone?

I hate that they don't want classes to have specialties. I like having alts and I like that their skills favor certain styles. I feel pretty confident that this is the only MMO I will ever play because I hate the non-stop skill changes.

Nerouyn

Illurian wrote: »

The skill *and* all its morphs are affected. Please read it again.

Ok that does seem like overkill.

I'd much prefer them this way but it would be better to give players the choice.

Illurian wrote: »

Also, PBAOE = Point Blank Area of Effect. This means that it hits an area in front of you, not how you think BoL functions currently. (Best example i can think of PBAOE is Puncturing Sweeps).

Incorrect.

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=pbaoe

Point Blank Area Of Effect - Usually used in fantasy gaming. The "Effect", usually a spell or weapon is cast over a predefined radius from the spells point of origin. an EMP blast would be a good example of PBAOE.

The PBAOE from the EMP blast has disabled all vehicles within two miles of the source.

Rushed ceromony is precisely this - a PBAOE.

Puncturing sweeps is a short range cone effect.

And BoL (breath of life) wasn't a part of this conversation so who knows why you're talking about it.

Illurian wrote: »

Why resort to ad hominem? That disregards your entire argument, legitimate or not.

No, it's completely obvious that you lied.

It wouldn't be possible for Wardens to maintain major mending permanently from class skills which is absolutely what you claimed, unless they were constantly healing players under 50% health.

So lie it is. Which you conceded.

Illurian wrote: »

The point is, Wardens will get Major Mending where it counts. With the HoTs running, if your group is at 100% anyway, it doesn't matter if you have Major Mending or not. But once your group starts falling below 50%, you will get Major Mending automatically by simply healing them, which will enable you to burst heal back up to full. Rinse and repeat.

But then went back to lieing. Oh well.

Illurian wrote: »

Nerouyn wrote: »

Illurian wrote: »

Templars have no source of Major Mending now, aside from heavy attacking with the restoration staff.

Nightblades and sorcerers have had to suffer that pretty much since the introduction of the major mending buff.

Now everyone is on a more equal footing. Awesome.

Everyone except Wardens.

me_ming

KochDerDamonen wrote: »

This is a good thing.

Templars were never good healers/supports, they've been broken. Any class can dps, any class can tank (DK and NB moreso in vTrials) but you might maybe see a sorc off-healer rarely.

Down with the op free sustain

Well, good luck then managing your resources. While you're at it learn to fully buff yourself as well, because I for one am no longer using combat prayer and moreso use your own Warhorn if you want Major Force. I am done supporting when the game punishes my every skill in my kit.

PS: what do you mean any class can tank in vtrials? Are you kidding me? Try running a main tank NB and an off-tank sorc and compare your group DPS with a main tank DK and an off-tank DK. DKs are the only viable tanks in vtrials. Anything outside the DK class is pointless. DKs provide buffs and debuffs to bosses that Sorcs, NBs and Templars could never do.

me_ming

KochDerDamonen wrote: »

Lyserus wrote: »

KochDerDamonen wrote: »

This is a good thing.

Templars were never good healers/supports, they've been broken. Any class can dps, any class can tank (DK and NB moreso in vTrials) but you might maybe see a sorc off-healer rarely.

Down with the op free sustain

so...are u saying

Make any class can dps
Make any class can tank
Templar is never good healer, they are not best dps and tank either, they are just broken so nerf them even more
Sorceror can doing anything best, but not healer, so let them op at healling too?

@Lyserus I'm saying Templar was not providing a healthy amount of support and healing, they were grossly over-supplying in both categories and preventing other classes from even being a choice. They should have received dps-usability and mitigation buffs in the same patch, but the nerfs to their healing and utility is absolutely justified.

I say this as someone who mains a templar healer.

Hahahaha. you a main templar healer? I highly doubt.

Balance is when there is diversity among all classes and races and types. Balance is when there are strengths and weaknesses among all classes and races, so you get to decide what class you want to play. The templar is beast in healing because it's kit not only offers healing but support skills too (ie major mending, resource management, buffs and debuffs, etc). It doesn't have the burst damage that NBs and Sorcs have. What you want is a game with only one race and one class. How fun is that?

Nerouyn

Illurian wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Rushed Ceremony: This ability and its morphs now heal friendly targets in a 180 degree cone in front of you, instead of all targets in a radius around you.
Developer Comments: Rushed Ceremony has been an extremely potent heal, and we wanted to adjust its effectiveness without making the ability heal for less. With these goals in mind, we made it so the ability only heals targets in front of the Templar. This makes the ability require more strategic positioning and gives the healer more control over who gets healed. You can now position yourself to ensure an ally being attacked will be healed, rather than another player standing in the back.

I just noticed what might be one source of confusion. Which ability are they talking about?

Rushed Ceremony doesn't heal targets around you. It heals a single target at range (or 2 with one morph).

Healing Ritual heals all targets around you.

Syrani

Phinix1 wrote: »

Can someone please explain the rationale for yanking away Templar's Major Mending but allowing Warden healers to keep it?

I can explain: $$$$$$$$$

Rygonix

Still not sure what it is with this odd fetish of mmo developers smacking the "holy knight" class with the nerf bat over and over while fawning over any class with a nature theme attached to it. However being a Templar/holy knight player for as long as I have played MMO's I am simply numb to the effect by this point.

Keep firing away ZoS..

Nerouyn

Rygonix wrote: »

Still not sure what it is with this odd fetish of mmo developers smacking the "holy knight" class with the nerf bat over and over while fawning over any class with a nature theme attached to it. However being a Templar/holy knight player for as long as I have played MMO's I am simply numb to the effect by this point.

Keep firing away ZoS..

It's obviously a conspiracy of smelly, evil hippies to hurt the poor.... er I mean disgustingly rich church.

Narvuntien

Clearly I am missing something... because I only see a buff.

hmsdragonfly

Firerock2 wrote: »

Nerouyn wrote: »

Illurian wrote: »

Uhm. Read the bolded part again. Both morphs are affected.

Conceded and that's not what I would have done. I would have left one morph pbaoe so that there's an additional effect morph of both styles.

Though at least you can just not morph it if you prefer pbaoe.

Illurian wrote: »

And yet Wardens will get perma major mending, but you don't seem to have a problem with that.

Why lie? That's sad and desperate.

Wardens can only get class-derived major mending by healing someone under 50% health and if you're throwing out heals to people who are that heavily wounded constantly - which you would need to maintain it permanently - then something's probably horribly wrong.

Illurian wrote: »

Templars have no source of Major Mending now, aside from heavy attacking with the restoration staff.

Nightblades and sorcerers have had to suffer that pretty much since the introduction of the major mending buff.

Now everyone is on a more equal footing. Awesome.

Where is Templar's Hardened Ward then? That would be equal footing

Never seen the boom shield?

Firerock2

hmsdragonfly wrote: »

Firerock2 wrote: »

Nerouyn wrote: »

Illurian wrote: »

Uhm. Read the bolded part again. Both morphs are affected.

Conceded and that's not what I would have done. I would have left one morph pbaoe so that there's an additional effect morph of both styles.

Though at least you can just not morph it if you prefer pbaoe.

Illurian wrote: »

And yet Wardens will get perma major mending, but you don't seem to have a problem with that.

Why lie? That's sad and desperate.

Wardens can only get class-derived major mending by healing someone under 50% health and if you're throwing out heals to people who are that heavily wounded constantly - which you would need to maintain it permanently - then something's probably horribly wrong.

Illurian wrote: »

Templars have no source of Major Mending now, aside from heavy attacking with the restoration staff.

Nightblades and sorcerers have had to suffer that pretty much since the introduction of the major mending buff.

Now everyone is on a more equal footing. Awesome.

Where is Templar's Hardened Ward then? That would be equal footing

Never seen the boom shield?

You're joking right?

Why don't you play the class on the PTS [snip]

[Edit for baiting]

me_ming

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

Excellent changes! Reason to still use a Templar Healer? Breath of Life; it's still the easiest healing class in the game; only now other classes can potentially be stronger, but it requires more skill.

Zenimax is finally rewarding skill! Thank God!

So every templar is unskilled?! lol. You obviously have not played a templar healer before.

Oh by the way let me remind you that whether you're a PvPer or a PvEer, you have benefited from breath of life. I hope next time when you're in cyrodiil and you are at 1HP and your sitting on AoE your templar is facing you. Because then you are just an unskillful player not making sure your templar healer is looking at your direction.

Majeure

So Warden's going to give better resource support to your group now due to being able to provide Minor recovery buffs to the whole group instead of just yourself. Having access to spears via orbs since they are the same thing now. Major Mending access where Templar doesn't, list goes on. GG.

Oh and sorc now has the better BoL, like they weren't already better at everything else in this game, why get a Templar healer again? Get your healers to reroll or replace them I guess.

Oh but Templar has a whole skill line for healing, not just one bomb heal ... with skills like the now defunct Repentance, and Healing Ritual, LOL what is that skill even trying to be, amirite? Well hey, at least stamplars will now get to pop their Repentance when they need it, and everyone else can forget about that skill ever existing.

Ohhgrizyyy

Illurian wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Templar

• Aedric Spear
  • Spear Shards: The synergy from this ability and its morphs now restore Stamina or Magicka, whichever percentage is lower. The amount restored is now based on your character level instead of your Max Resource. The synergy also has a shared cooldown with the Necrotic Orb synergy.
  • Luminous Shards (Spear Shards morph): This morph now causes the synergy to also restore an equal amount of Magicka or Stamina to the casting Templar, with a 20-second cooldown.
    Developer Comments:
    This reduces the need to have a Templar to constantly feed Stamina to your Stamina DPS and Tank, while making the Spear Shards synergy more useful to Magicka builds.

• Dawn’s Wrath
  • Eclipse:
    • This ability and its morphs now last for 3.5 seconds, down from 6 seconds, but can no longer be removed with Break Free. After the effect ends, enemies will gain CC-immunity.
    • Reduced the cost of this ability and its morphs by approximately 20%.
  • Power of the Light (Backlash morph): Fixed an issue where the damage from this morph could be dodged.
  • Purifying Light (Backlash morph): Fixed an issue where the heal from this morph could not critically strike.
• Restoring Light
  • Mending: This passive ability now increases the healing done by Restoring Light abilities by 6/12% based on the target’s missing health, up from 5/10%.
  • Repentance (Restoring Aura morph): This morph now restores Health and Stamina based on your character level instead of your Max Resource. It also only restores Stamina to the casting Templar, but continues to restore Health to the casting Templar and his allies.
    Developer Comments:
    This will be a buff if your Maximum Stamina is below 29,700 and a nerf if it is above.
  • Rushed Ceremony: This ability and its morphs now heal friendly targets in a 180 degree cone in front of you, instead of all targets in a radius around you.
    Developer Comments:
    Rushed Ceremony has been an extremely potent heal, and we wanted to adjust its effectiveness without making the ability heal for less. With these goals in mind, we made it so the ability only heals targets in front of the Templar. This makes the ability require more strategic positioning and gives the healer more control over who gets healed. You can now position yourself to ensure an ally being attacked will be healed, rather than another player standing in the back.
  • Sacred Ground: This passive ability now grants Minor Mending instead of Major Mending when you are standing in your Cleansing Ritual, Rune Focus, or Rite of Passage areas of effect.
    Developer Comments:
    With a similar goal to reducing uptime on Major Mending as noted with the Igneous Shield change, Templars having 100% uptime on Major Mending by just standing within their areas of protection is stronger than we’d like and is one of the reasons they are the most desirable healer in endgame situations. We’ve changed the bonus to Minor Mending instead, but have increased the bonus from the Mending passive to compensate slightly.

The one silver lining I saw with the Morrowind CP changes was the fact that Templars would still be able to aid in resource management. However, with Repentance no longer restoring stamina to the group, and Spear Shards sharing a synergy cooldown with Necrotic Orb, what is the point of running a Templar healer? The main niche of having a Templar over any other class as a healer was the fact that Templars could support resource management so efficiently. I understand the want to reduce that, but to remove it altogether? That's a bit too far.

I understand that Major Mending was too common, but removing it completely from Templars, the only class that has an entire skill line dedicated to healing, makes no sense.

Overall, I'm very disappointed by the patch notes, and hope that some serious reconsideration is done before it appears on live.

Also, I find it hilarious that the strongest class at the moment (mag sorcs) were completely untouched, while everything else suffered significant nerfs.

I personally find it funny they may be the strongest from a PvE standpoint but the strongest when it comes to PvP is a Stam DK

KochDerDamonen

me_ming wrote: »

KochDerDamonen wrote: »

This is a good thing.

Templars were never good healers/supports, they've been broken. Any class can dps, any class can tank (DK and NB moreso in vTrials) but you might maybe see a sorc off-healer rarely.

Down with the op free sustain

Well, good luck then managing your resources. While you're at it learn to fully buff yourself as well, because I for one am no longer using combat prayer and moreso use your own Warhorn if you want Major Force. I am done supporting when the game punishes my every skill in my kit.

PS: what do you mean any class can tank in vtrials? Are you kidding me? Try running a main tank NB and an off-tank sorc and compare your group DPS with a main tank DK and an off-tank DK. DKs are the only viable tanks in vtrials. Anything outside the DK class is pointless. DKs provide buffs and debuffs to bosses that Sorcs, NBs and Templars could never do.

@me_ming I do the resource and buff managing, templar healer main

I did not say every class can tank in vTrials. I said DK and NB can, and NB is an off-tank thing that pops up occasionally.

me_ming wrote: »

KochDerDamonen wrote: »

Lyserus wrote: »

KochDerDamonen wrote: »

This is a good thing.

Templars were never good healers/supports, they've been broken. Any class can dps, any class can tank (DK and NB moreso in vTrials) but you might maybe see a sorc off-healer rarely.

Down with the op free sustain

so...are u saying

Make any class can dps
Make any class can tank
Templar is never good healer, they are not best dps and tank either, they are just broken so nerf them even more
Sorceror can doing anything best, but not healer, so let them op at healling too?

@Lyserus I'm saying Templar was not providing a healthy amount of support and healing, they were grossly over-supplying in both categories and preventing other classes from even being a choice. They should have received dps-usability and mitigation buffs in the same patch, but the nerfs to their healing and utility is absolutely justified.

I say this as someone who mains a templar healer.

Hahahaha. you a main templar healer? I highly doubt.

Balance is when there is diversity among all classes and races and types. Balance is when there are strengths and weaknesses among all classes and races, so you get to decide what class you want to play. The templar is beast in healing because it's kit not only offers healing but support skills too (ie major mending, resource management, buffs and debuffs, etc). It doesn't have the burst damage that NBs and Sorcs have. What you want is a game with only one race and one class. How fun is that?

Yes 90% of my playtime is on my templar. There is no diversity in healing. Templars being the only healers is not diversity. It is not diverse for every healer to be a templar that is either an Altmer, Breton or Argonian.

You see tanks of all sorts up to vDungeons, and dps of every class and resource til then too. Healers? Templar. Templar. Templar. Maybe the one off sorcerer healer, I know I have one of each class. Four argonians, four healer specs, I didn't even level the nightblade to 50 because it was depressing how weak they all were compared to templar. This is not diversity.