PTS Feedback Thread for Skill Line Unlocking Changes

static_recharge

It would be nice if the skill lines weren't just completely hidden. I would prefer if they were visible, but greyed out / or otherwise indicated that they were locked and when you hover over them it would tell you how to unlock them. They could be clickable to let the user view the skills within, but not spend any points until it was unlocked.This would give more information to the new players and give them reminders that there are more skill lines to try while still limiting them so they don't feel overwhelmed, while still letting them see what is available so that they can make informed decisions for the direction they want to take with their character.

To prevent cluttering of the skill line window, the greyed out skill lines could be separated from the unlocked ones in different sub-categories so that the user has to knowingly open the unlocked section to view what is there. Both the unlocked and locked sub categories would be able to be collapsed or expanded when the user clicks on the titles for each respectively.

Example:

Weapons:

• Unlocked

  • Dual Wield
  • Bow
• Locked

  • One Hand and Shield
  • Two-Handed
  • Destruction Staff
  • Restoration Staff

Elderskrye

Hayhurst wrote: »

If you create a CP630 template character the Racial Skill line does not show.

Created two templates and both suffer from the same issue.

Same thing on 1 template Dunmer Warden

Agalloch

The old system is better than the one from PTS

LadyNalcarya

Frenkthevile wrote: »

potirondb16_ESO wrote: »

I hated it !

Unlocking skill... ain't working for me, and wouldn't have been if I had been a new player, the fact that you can't see what's out there isn't helping you choose your path, I didn't like it.

What would have been ok is that we had the base option and the message about how to unlock specific skill line... that might have work but otherwise I feel like it's good from an RP perspective but as far as an MMO player would care this is shady...

I don't think that system is a good idea, I already see half a thousand player asking how to unlock this or that skill line and some who won't even know such skill line exist... that would end up badly ! lol

Yeah, its terrible from a new player point of view. One thing i loved back in 2014 was the greatness, the variety, of skills that the game showed me
Change back, it was better.

Cant agree more. All those possibilities were very exciting.
And yeah, I agree that skill lines shouldnt be hidden, maybe just greyed out (and of course it should be explained in game).
Otherwise new players might think that, for example, their dk is limited to that 2-hander they picked in Wailing prison.
I understand why they decided to put something like this in game, but I think is un-intuitive and might be more confusing for new players than the current system. After all, being able to play as you want (well, in solo content) is one of the main selling points of this game, and any TES game provided you that freedom, so that's what new players would expect if theyre familiar with the series. On the other hand, more mmo-focused players would probably like to plan their characters in advance, and being able to see all available abilities helps a lot.

P.S. Some people would say its obvious... But nope, it's not. Many things you'd consider obvious (after playing this game for a decent amount of time) arent so easy to figure out for new players. If you check the chat in starting locations, especially during free to play events and huge discounts, you'll see new players wondering about all this "obvious" stuff.

e.gamemarkb14_ESO

This creates far more confusion then helps. Leave this system as it is on live, allow everyone to see the skills lines and all the perspective skills. This is a core feature that works as is for this game.

Godspeed

The new skill locking system is atrocious and extremely laborious. Took a little over an hour to unlock what I needed on a template.

I can see where a new player would play a substantial amount of time not even knowing about some skill lines. Until they learn about them on forums and reddit etc.

As a paying customer I consider Dev time being wasted fixing things that aren't broken unacceptable conduct. I would honestly like to know who is responsible for this idea and 3 different reasons why they think it would benefit the game.

DSWATMAN

Just to make sure the anomoly is reported. The Race Trait passives don't always come up for you to populate. On one character, I got them. On the next one I rolled I have still not been able to put skill points into my racial passives.

eldermadmax

well had to box my first beetle down and then the option to equip came up, but it wasn't my weapon of choice and until i preformed a certain task of the sort did the option happen(ie...mage's guild , thieves guild and so on....
None of the quest npc's talk to you?as in no vocal! is this ususal for this beta?

eldermadmax

can mini maps ever be added to the pts?? good golly it is hard to find your way around in there LOL
run for a bit check big map run check ets

agabahmeatshieldb14_ESO

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

This is the official feedback thread for the changes to skill line unlocking. Specific feedback that the team is looking for includes the following:

• Do you have any other general feedback?

I do not think that this is a positive change for new players, as I think it will create more confusion than it will save in the long run.

It has happened more than once that I've talked to players who didn't know they had a specific skill, or what a certain skill was called or actually did, but I have never once in my time playing the game heard anyone complain about seeing all the skill lines.

In my opinion it is better for new players to see all the options open to them from the start. This may be slightly overwhelming at first, but it also works as an introductory course in the armor and weapon types and the crafting lines available to them. Without having to receive any explicit instruction, new players can look and see that there are three types of armor, which do different things. They can see that Dual Wield and One Hand and Shield and Two Handed are all different and distinct weapon types, and that crafting in the game is separated into typical (by MMO standards) categories.

If players then dig deeper into the skills and passives, they can learn more about the different types of staves, or the difference between an axe and a dagger, or why light and medium armor are separate as opposed to a game like Skyrim. They don't have to, but they can.

Basically, I feel that the availability of skill lines from character creation acts as an implicit tutorial. Unless you want to replace this with some sort of explicit quests, which seems like an ungainly solution and way more work than necessary, I say just leave the system as it currently is on Live.

ArtOfShred

I have one suggestion for this system. While I am against it, as it feels unnecessary - my suggestion is to allow weapon/armor skill lines to unlock when one piece of armor or a weapon is equipped, rather than being dependant on killing blows or having to equip 3 pieces.

peacenote

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

This is the official feedback thread for the changes to skill line unlocking. Specific feedback that the team is looking for includes the following:

• Did your currently-created characters have all of their skill lines intact?
• If you created a new character, how long did it take you to unlock all of the weapon/armor skill lines?
  • Did you understand what it took?
  • Did you understand how to unlock new skill lines?
• Do you have any other general feedback?

I did both.

Currently created characters: As far as I noticed, all the skill lines for there.

New character:

- I didn't try unlocking all of the lines, so can't really answer.
- Even after reading patch notes, couldn't figure out how to unlock the soul line.

Templated max new character:

To me, this is the equivalent of existing players power-leveling a new toon. This will always be something existing players want to do. This was an awful experience. Frustrating not to see things that I know should be there. This should not be implemented for existing players with new characters.

Other feedback:

Please don't implement this. Instead of seeing complexity as a new character (which results folks to join zone chat, guilds, and make friends to ask questions) it looks deceptively simple to start a new toon. It makes the game seem to have less depth, which is off-putting for an MMO and an Elder Scrolls game. It's not enjoyable for current players starting new characters or new accounts, and doesn't invite new players to explore the depths of the game and know all of the options. You won't even know about a weapon type unless you loot it, notice it, and equip it. Need three pieces for armor? This is inconsistent. Equip one piece of armor and you will assume there is no skill line for armor, because weapons only require an attack.

I like the ideas others have had to still show the skill lines, but gray them out, if it is really necessary to change things from how they are. I suppose it is OK to require a killing blow from a weapon for the line to "unlock." However this is still inconsistent as you don't have to do anything to gain your class skills. I really feel that what you had before was better. When I was a new player, it helped me engage in the community faster and ask more questions. Why do we want to change that?

Melos-TheMadChimera

personally I'm not a fan, i think its better to see everything before hand both as an experienced and new player.

Being able to see and preview all skills and skill lines let one both get an idea of how they want to build the character, and for a new player gives them an idea of whats out there to try.

lungbutter89

While I understand the intent of the system, I do not feel like the implementation is actually going to do what it is supposed to do. Instead of simplifying things for new players, I feel like its actually making things more complicated. I for one do not think this system should be implemented at all.

If it is going to be implemented, then like many here I would suggest the following: the grayed out skill line with the requirements to unlock it listed, simpler unlocking for the armor skill lines (1 piece equipped), and the racial skill line unlocked from the beginning.

Alendrin

I didn't like skill unlocking at all. I am the type who likes to read the skills to see what appeals to me. If you insist on this path I think you should at least be able to see the skill lines and inspect them prior to unlock. I new player might not even realize certain things exist.

Sreja_Bone

Have to say, this seems like a solution searching for a problem. I do like the upfront explanation of how to open a skill line, explicitly stating that a kill with the pertinent weapon unlocks it.

That said, if I'm an absolute newbie to rpg's, how do I even know what's available? If I'm a vet of other games, but new here, same question as well, plus wondering when/where I get my spear, polearm, whip, etc. that doesn't even exist in this game (thus far). And what about the armor lines? I saw no mention of opening those, though I might have missed it.
In neither case can I begin to plan ahead and will have to resort zone chat, and zone chat in the starter zones can be brutal, not to mention intentionally misleading.

philips666_18b16_ESO

Did your currently-created characters have all of their skill lines intact? yes

If you created a new character, how long did it take you to unlock all of the weapon/armor skill lines? a few houres
Did you understand what it took? yes but its a litlle bit confusing
Did you understand how to unlock new skill lines? yes
Do you have any other general feedback?
i dont like this change i prefer to see all the possibilities i have with my character, i am afraid that change could confuse new players

Zarrakon

I've already commented once in this thread, but since this still hasn't changed...

This idea is stupid. Whoever came up with this was probably really searching hard for an idea to present at a meeting that would make it seem like they'd accomplished something for the week. This does not solve an existing problem, this does not make the game friendlier to new users (it actually does the opposite - how many people do you think won't realize that dual wielding is a thing now because they don't see a skill line for it?), and it has received (in this thread) near-universally negative feedback.

I personally don't like the skill window, but that's only because I have to keep switching between trees to change up my bars. This is something that's actually a pretty common problem - people have different bar setups for PvP and PvE, or AoE fights and single target fights. Some people address this with addons, but it would be a lot friendlier to new players if there was a tab they could just drop all their commonly-used skills in, or some way to organize loadouts that can be swapped on the fly between battles. Of course, this would take a little more work than just disabling skill trees on new characters, but it'd actually be useful and appreciated.

max_only

Weapon skill lines should unlock upon equipping.

Armor skill lines should unlock upon receiving experience in that armor in addition to the "3 item rule".

I had 1 piece of light armor on and the line leveled but I didn't have the line unlocked, that was confusing.

RaddlemanNumber7

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

This is the official feedback thread for the changes to skill line unlocking. Specific feedback that the team is looking for includes the following:

• Did your currently-created characters have all of their skill lines intact?
• If you created a new character, how long did it take you to unlock all of the weapon/armor skill lines?
  • Did you understand what it took?
  • Did you understand how to unlock new skill lines?
• Do you have any other general feedback?

I checked 4 of my existing 12 characters. They had all their skill lines, including the weapon skills they'd never ever used. Those who had never done DB did not have that skill line.

I created a new character but did not have enough time to open all the skill lines. The requirements to unlock each particular skill are far from clear. I unlocked the weapon and armour skill lines I wanted to use. I tried to open Legerdemain and failed, although I had unlocked locks in the tutorial, sneaked around a bit, tried and failed to pick a couple of pockets once outside, and paid off my bounty to a guard.

As far as general feedback goes, I do not see any benefit in this change. It is not fixing something that is broken. It can only serve to confuse new players even further at the very beginning of the game in a situation that already has a steep learning curve. It blinds new players to some possible lines of advancement. It could easily lead them to make ill-informed decisions about the allocation of skill points and attribute points that they will very likely come to regret almost immediately. Being ignorant about such important things in a game is not an entertaining or rewarding experience.

Sreja_Bone

Noticed today that if you equip a weapon with no offhand equipped and make a kill, no weapon line unlocks (currently on live 1h&s unlocks in this circumstance).

More confusion for a new player, especially when there is a statement on screen about equipping a weapon and making a kill unlocks that line and you are only given one weapon if you skip the tutorial; if the lines aren't visible, how is one to know that there is no one-handed line - especially as it is a stock line in TES games. Confusion for a vet player as well (I fully expected 1h&s to unlock), had to check variables; no armor equipped/no offhand equipped to determine what was causing it to remain locked. Easy enough, but entirely unnecessary and a bit unfriendly.

Docmandu

Glad ZOS took all this feedback.. and changed... oops nevermind..