PTS Feedback Thread for Skill Line Unlocking Changes

ZOS_GinaBruno

This is the official feedback thread for the changes to skill line unlocking. Specific feedback that the team is looking for includes the following:

• Did your currently-created characters have all of their skill lines intact?
• If you created a new character, how long did it take you to unlock all of the weapon/armor skill lines?
  • Did you understand what it took?
  • Did you understand how to unlock new skill lines?
• Do you have any other general feedback?

usmcjdking

@ZOS_GinaBruno

I think this is a good idea, but a little too non-intuitive. When you equip a weapon for the first time, that should automatically post a message saying "SKILL LINE UNLOCKED" and give you a prompt to immediately open to that skill line.

The others should NOT be invisible but should be grayed out as if they are 'locked'. Hovering your mouse over a grayed skill line should tell you DIRECTLY how to unlock them This serves two purposes:

#1 We have some pavlov next level *** happening where players can associate equipping weapons/armor to unlocking skill lines.
#2 Players can see how to unlock those skill lines by hovering over the grayed out options for some of the more complicated unlocks (undaunted, allians war, WW/Vamp).

Enodoc

This is a nice idea. Although I think it's a bit odd that your race's innate natural affinity doesn't exist for five levels.

Hayhurst

If you create a CP630 template character the Racial Skill line does not show.

Created two templates and both suffer from the same issue.

sly007

Hayhurst wrote: »

If you create a CP630 template character the Racial Skill line does not show.

Created two templates and both suffer from the same issue.

There are no racial passive in the pts yet.

Attica-Centurius

Unlocking skill lines is very easily done by killing critters, one hit and skill line unlocked. Don't know if this is the idea behind this.

Attica-Centurius

Crafting skill lines also unlock after reading a knowledge book, don't know if that is the same for weapon skill lines.
Actually quite a nice experience.

potirondb16_ESO

I hated it !

Unlocking skill... ain't working for me, and wouldn't have been if I had been a new player, the fact that you can't see what's out there isn't helping you choose your path, I didn't like it.

What would have been ok is that we had the base option and the message about how to unlock specific skill line... that might have work but otherwise I feel like it's good from an RP perspective but as far as an MMO player would care this is shady...

I don't think that system is a good idea, I already see half a thousand player asking how to unlock this or that skill line and some who won't even know such skill line exist... that would end up badly ! lol

MopeyHat

potirondb16_ESO wrote: »

I hated it !

Unlocking skill... ain't working for me, and wouldn't have been if I had been a new player, the fact that you can't see what's out there isn't helping you choose your path, I didn't like it.

What would have been ok is that we had the base option and the message about how to unlock specific skill line... that might have work but otherwise I feel like it's good from an RP perspective but as far as an MMO player would care this is shady...

I don't think that system is a good idea, I already see half a thousand player asking how to unlock this or that skill line and some who won't even know such skill line exist... that would end up badly ! lol

So much this. It's the opposite of intuitive. And you can still gain experience in a skill line you can't see. I would rather see stronger indicator for skill lines that have abilities and passives available (e.g., the "new" icon next to a skill line and its parent category in the tree).

rsantijw13

been doing the equipping of at least one of each armor type for 3 years to level each as i level up to have the option of doing more when i hit 50. Now when i hit 50 i have to spend more time unlocking skill lines. Sorry but while i am not a hardcore player a method that has been in use for 3 years should not be removed from the game. Seems like the catering for this game is directed towards new people who A. Grind to 50 then to CP160 with out learning the game and B. The people that havent invested 3 years financially into this game. There is love lost for me and this game. So much that i dont even tell people about it anymore. Stopped being a walking rep for this game over the last 6 months. The feeling of" hey you have paid for this game for 3+ years but we dont care about you we want people to buy the game" is very strong. I felt that while you like my money you dont really want me as a member of the game.

Archon_Ravage

I dislike the changes here.

On a 630 template warden
Crafting skills didn't max out, maybe not intended to, but all traits researched, when I walked up to a crafting table to unlock them. Had I not read the patch notes I defiantly would have struggled a bit, same with killing something to unlock weapons. I just don't feel it's necessary to hide the skills as I like being able to see all the skills right away to see how I might want to play that toon. I realize it's no challenge to unlock them but seems like unnecessary work.

As with the crafting skills not maxed out I was hoping craft 160 gear to actually test how the warden plays, but currently I feel I can't test the way I was hoping(imagining?) to test.

Maybe I'm expecting to much and that's fine, I'll still try to stick with it to do my part.

My two cents.

Mojmir

This is a waste of time and too late in the game to implement.why the constant need to slow down your playerbase? What next a 20 hour timer before you can level a skill?

MissBizz

If you created a new character, how long did it take you to unlock all of the weapon/armor skill lines?
At level 4 and have not yet unlocked them all (obviously)

Did you understand what it took?
Yes. As a new player/character I felt it would be very clear that I did gain a skill line, and why.

Did you understand how to unlock new skill lines?
Not for crafting yet. (remember, faking being new here...) but I did manage to unlock one crafting profession via a skill book on a shelf. THIS showed me there is crafting, so maybe I should snoop around more.

Do you have any other general feedback?
I was very hesitant of this change when I read about it, but starting out as a new character it did make a lot of sense, and really did help the skill screen seem much more manageable.

I would think that automatically granting the skill line upon equip would make a WEE bit more sense. This way you're not "in the heat of battle" with things popping up telling you, and it's something you can easily cause yourself.

FoulSnowpaw

The weapon skill line unlock change seems good. New players are not overloaded with tons of skill lines and is more simple.

Docmandu

Really don't like this system. Think it makes it more obscure / difficult for new players. I get what the idea behind it is, just think the implementation is too confusing.

Maybe at least show all the skill lines, but show a tooltip on how to unlock them. As it currently is, I can already imagine some people playing to Level 50 CP630 without knowing there's more skill lines.

daedalusAI

Just created a new toon to test it:

• The first time you open your skill panel there are only explanations on how to purchase a skill - nothing else
• No indication that you can unlock more skill lines by equipping a certain combination of items - a new player playing a sorcerer will assume he only needs light armor and thus won't unlock the medium or heavy skill line
• If there is no indication of additional skill lines how would you discover something like undaunted, vampire, werewolf etc. without know of them beforehand?

Slightly off-topic but strangely there are only 4 feedback threads:

• I'm already going mad seeing there are still ratings everywhere instead of percentages: what does 2191 critical rating of sun fire tell a new player? But you do use percentages in the character window because logic.
• I still can't see possible morphs without having to purchase a skill first and risk wasting that skill point if the possible morphs are just trash.
• Shouldn't there be an additional explanation for the critical strike tool-tip in the character window informing about the critical strike multiplier? Is a critical strike 100, 200, 300% of base damage.
• If skill lines have to be unlocked why do I already see my riding skills in my character window when I don't even have a horse at the start of the game?

Enodoc

A proposal I have seen elsewhere is to keep the skill lines locked, but to have them greyed out instead of hidden. Then you know what skill lines are available, and clicking on one would say how to unlock it. This way, you aren't stuck thinking that the game potentially only has 3 skill lines.

daedalusAI wrote: »

If skill lines have to be unlocked why do I already see my riding skills in my character window when I don't even have a horse at the start of the game?

They're not skills

Zakor

I like the new system so far but theres one thing that's a little bit off:

If you put on the random white armor found in the tutorial (which I assume new players would do also since they don't have any armor) and just go on and on you will get messages like "Rank 3 in Light Armor unlocked" but don't even have the light armor line nor know how to obtain it.

Suggestion here:
Enable the armor lines in the moment you rank them up. Else it's too confusing.

daedalusAI

Enodoc wrote: »

A proposal I have seen elsewhere is to keep the skill lines locked, but to have them greyed out instead of hidden. Then you know what skill lines are available, and clicking on one would say how to unlock it. This way, you aren't stuck thinking that the game potentially only has 3 skill lines.

daedalusAI wrote: »

If skill lines have to be unlocked why do I already see my riding skills in my character window when I don't even have a horse at the start of the game?

They're not skills

Yes they're no skill lines - but if the idea is to hide elements until you've unlocked them there is no logical reason as to why you can see your riding skills without even owning a horse.

Another thing: with no indication on how to unlock skill lines how does one get the idea that you need to kill an enemy with both a 1h and a shield equipped to unlock that skill line?

Just equipped a 1h weapon and I can't unlock the skill line. It's even more pathetic considering I kill them with my 1h weapon and not my shield.

Darlon

Better way would be to grey skill lines out before they're unlocked instead of just not showing them. That way a new player would see that they're there and what needs to be done to unlock it (tooltip maybe ?).

Don't really like the fact that you have to wear 3 armor pieces to unlock a certain line...

takai.kurosawab14_ESO

Adjust the One-handed and Shield skill line so it unlocks after a kill with a one-handed weapon equipped only, in conjunction with unlocking after a kill with a one-handed weapon + shield. I spent a good 20 minutes killing things w/ a 1-hand mace but never unlocked it until I found a shield and equipped it.

There is no in-game hint or obvious condition that a shield needs to be equipped, as you can still go around killing things with a 1handed weapon.

While it was confusing running around with a mace and not unlocking the skill line, it did however bring back fond memories of running a single 1-handed weapon as an offensive option in the single player TES games. I miss those days.

EDIT: While we're at it, there's also no in-game hit or obvious condition for unlocking armor skill lines by wearing 3 of those pieces.

DeCarn

I think simply equipping a weapon should be enough to unlock the skill line associated with that weapon.

Also, soul magic skills are not available on max level templates.

Archon_Ravage

Suggestion.
I think the unlocking of skill lines should be included in the tutorial only for true new people. This would allow for explanation of how one acquires skill lines in eso. Then when you skip the tutorial you have them all already unlocked like normal, you skipped the tutorial you probably have some idea what your doing in this game.

As stated in my first post it just seems like necessary work, especially for people that have been playing for a while.

Dominoid

daedalusAI wrote: »

Enodoc wrote: »

A proposal I have seen elsewhere is to keep the skill lines locked, but to have them greyed out instead of hidden. Then you know what skill lines are available, and clicking on one would say how to unlock it. This way, you aren't stuck thinking that the game potentially only has 3 skill lines.

daedalusAI wrote: »

If skill lines have to be unlocked why do I already see my riding skills in my character window when I don't even have a horse at the start of the game?

They're not skills

Yes they're no skill lines - but if the idea is to hide elements until you've unlocked them there is no logical reason as to why you can see your riding skills without even owning a horse.

Another thing: with no indication on how to unlock skill lines how does one get the idea that you need to kill an enemy with both a 1h and a shield equipped to unlock that skill line?

Just equipped a 1h weapon and I can't unlock the skill line. It's even more pathetic considering I kill them with my 1h weapon and not my shield.

This point shouldn't be overlooked. The skill line doesn't appear until you have three pieces of the same armor typ on, but you are still earning XP from the kills leveling the line you don't "have" yet. The solution above owkrs or lowering the required armor count to one.

Attica-Centurius

First off didn't really reply to the main question:
No I did not understand what it took, had to read patch notes to find out.
One hand and shield was a bit weird since just a one handed weapon doesn't do anything.

Took me one hour to get all skill lines (because I couldn't find a third heavy armour piece..-.- ) Else would have been like 10 seconds thanks to critters.

And here is some general feedback and perhaps daring idea's;

I actually like this new system and if it's going to stay then won't mind rolling with it.
For the experienced community nothing really interesting will change.
Focusing only on new people experience, which Morrowind should bring in by the many of course.

- Keep the books to unlock skills (so people can unlock skill lines which they didn't knew existed)

And now the daring part;
Only show the unlock-able skills instead of going from no clue about skill lines to all the (redundant) information at once.
So level 1 till level 4 for two handed will only show Uppercut and at level 4 Critical Charge will appear.

This will focus people on the skill they can use so they get the time to understand each skill.
Why would I want to know what Eruption does if I don't know anything about meta builds and can read about that when my character is properly leveled (or even before and people can use interwebz for those extra yet redundant information.)
It should also create a desire to level up any skill line, just to see what skill might await me next.

Also for a second idea;
I wouldn't mind the discovery of a skill line to be a bit harder and weapon specific.
One Hand and shield block an attack.
Two Handed heavy attack
Dual Wield killing blow
Destruction Staff killing blow
Restoration Staff heal self or other (which procs from heavy attack if not mistaken)
Suggesting only because of roleplaying purposes without making it much harder. But killing blow everything is a bit simple.

Coolio_Wolfus

Attica-Centurius wrote: »

I wouldn't mind the discovery of a skill line to be a bit harder and weapon specific.
One Hand and shield block an attack.
Two Handed heavy attack
Dual Wield killing blow
Destruction Staff killing blow
Restoration Staff heal self or other (which procs from heavy attack if not mistaken)
Suggesting only because of roleplaying purposes without making it much harder. But killing blow everything is a bit simple.

One Hand and shield - killing blow or block an attack.
Two Handed - killing blow <- otherwise insta unlock in the prison tutorial.
Restoration Staff - killing blow or heal self/other

As for listings it would be nice to list the options but instead of showing skill lines when selected the skill lines could have an overlay saying or hinting at requirements to unlock.

An example using guilds -
No skills -
< Guilds > Several NPC guilds have their own quest and skill lines.

Mages unlocked -
< Guilds >
< Mages > Skill line
< Fighters > [Undaunted and other dlc guilds (subject to dlc accessability) shown greyed out]

I feel this would help newer players know they are available without just blanking everything.

olsborg

Not a fan, make it a choice in the gameplay settings pls.

Kendaric

Not a fan of the system at all. If the system is meant to stay, please consider making it optional.

Zarrakon

I don't really think this is particularly good for anyone.

• If you're experienced (i.e. have played one character to level 10), the skill lines really aren't overwhelming. The categories keep them nice and organized, and all this change does is add extra annoyances (e.g. I now have to find 3 pieces of heavy/medium armor to unlock the heavy/medium skill lines on my new alt?). Something I *would* like is the ability to 'hide' or regroup skill lines on my characters myself, e.g. create a tab with all the skill lines I plan on using grouped under one heading (to make it easier to navigate).
• If you're new to the game, this is going to slightly lower the number of things people need to look through to plan out their character at the start, and just lead to confusion where you get level 50 altmer magicka sorcerers with 2h/bow because those were their first weapons, and as far as they can tell those are the only weapons with skill lines available. (If you don't believe this would happen to anyone, try visiting Auridon sometime and reading the zone chat).

If skill lines have to be unlocked, at least gray out the locked ones but still have them as options. Or, even better, make the unlocks account-wide.

janusdef

I understand the thought behind no overwhelming a new player with a plethora of choices, but on the flip side, how are they to make choices without knowing their options? Sure, they can consult third party resources, but wouldn't it be easier to just do it in game? This is where all the relevant tooltips will be updated as they are updated (instead of relying on what could be old data from third party sources)

F7sus4

For new players - all trees shown instantly at least made them aware of all possible weapon types and combinations. Without that - I can bet that there will be at least one player reaching his very first CP160 without knowing e.g. Dual Wield actually exists etc.