I want to kill spys from my own faction!

Winnamine

BooskySG wrote: »

I keep seeing DiE and VE brought up as examples of X guild getting hate for swapping factions,yada yada muh faction purism claim. That's an amusing, albeit ignorant, claim. DiE got hate for swapping which faction they nightcapped for--the major reason the numerous TF campaigns ended up being red nightcapped daily.Yeah, the infamous string of TF campaigns that EP won that were noncompetitive. Simply put, ruining competition off-hours by stacking the faction that could compete against them--although barely as EP was outnumbered 5+ to 1 during the time period. I could also go into detail about how DiE brought drama over with them, e.g., blatant attempts at poaching members, telling DIE members they couldnt run with friends because their friends were in X guild,DiE starting *** with Crys, etc. To the wholly ignorant,yes, the DiE hate could be seen as hurr durr muh faction purism, but it wasnt.

As for VE, any hate they get in any of faction's zone chats was earned on a personal basis I'm sure and not from their bazillion faction swaps from campaign to campaign and even mid-campaign at times.

Inb4 more conflation of attempts to retain competitiveness in Cyro campaigns with faction purism. Oh wait, no one cares about Cyro objectives or campaign wins anymore and everyone plays every faction. What a shocker lol

Edit: Almost forgot to mention that DiE and Alacrity were having beef at the same time DiE swapped over to EP, so there's yet another layer to that drama fest of a faction swap

It was Venatus, actually, not Alacrity.

And sure, VE and DiE, and subsequently Havoc, had plenty of their own drama going on, but that doesn't negate the hate they got for faction hopping, and they did. They really did.

And like you said, EP was outnumbered when DiE switched, their switch was necessary at the time, it was just ill timed because immediately after, AD collapsed when Venatus left and Alacrity stopped being competitive.

Winnamine

Soul_Demon wrote: »

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

Soul_Demon wrote: »

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

Soul_Demon wrote: »

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

Soul_Demon wrote: »

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

@Soul_Demon Campaign victory rewards, AP, and former emperorship were all next to worthless long before ZOS removed faction locks from campaigns.

Since the locks were removed, our rates of AP gains have been increased, but more valuable goods have been added to AP vendors. Over all, AP has a stronger conversion rate and a stronger market for its goods than back then.

The gold you acquire from campaign victory rewards has been increased since the locks were removed. Note that items, including the old Master weapons, come from end of campaign rewards, which are a different mail entirely and not linked to winning the campaign at all.

And emperorship was arguably easier to get back then because there were more campaigns, meaning more first place people at any given time and more maps to be night capped. It's still stupid easy to get, and groups conspire to trade emps all the time in NA/PC Haderus.

So if anything....these things that you say were weakened because of multifaction play have gotten stronger over time...although for reasons completely unrelated to multifaction play. Your argument doesn't hold water.

I don't see the same thing you see.......but if you say it has gotten stronger and better from then to now with multi faction homing on same camps ect and ultra cheap camp swapping......do we have more servers and a larger population? Why did we have to consolidate servers just to populate two or three now rather than four or five fully populated as we had then?

Proof rests with our servers and in current population. For some, they may like those changes, but its a mere shadow of population of the community prior to the opening up of the flood gates. "I just want to play with my friends" is what started all of it when the mechanism already existed- we now play the end result.

You see what you want to see, not what's actually there.

Players quit because of lag and poor game balance, not multifactioners. Look at their complaints for yourself.

I see....so, my points don't 'hold water' and now I 'see what I want and not what is actually there'. Who could refute such solid logic so well explained and backed up with examples.

You should reread my and Winnie's posts.

I have and in both case see multi faction players who continue to post in support of something that is clear to most of the community isn't good for the game.

I'm a DC only player. Have been since very early 1.6. I don't even PvE with another faction character.

You should try to look at our points objectively instead of continuing to make assumptions.

For example, I question how much of the community really considers multifaction play bad for the game. Where is that perception coming from exactly? Lol

Here is what I see....you started the game December 2016, and the other poster started in October 2014.

I have listened and tried very hard to remain open minded regarding a different opinion, but in order to speak about things prior to your start dates you would need to have been here. You have every right to an opinion and I am glad you are voicing it, but in order to walk you through step by step I would need to make up for several years of play. I cant do that in a forum post.

Let me use your line here as I think it has particular relevance "You should try to look at our (my) points objectively" by reading what I posted. If there are parts of those explanations that don't make sense to you, maybe there are those in your playing 'circle' that could share background on what was actually happening then so you can get a better idea of why I have a different opinion on this issue.

Until then I am glad you have a different opinion, but I simply do not agree with it and as stated the proof is in our population and number of active campaigns we have.

Oh dear, no I've been playing since beta. I only started using the forums in 2014.
#assumptions

NightbladeMechanics

Winnamine wrote: »

Soul_Demon wrote: »

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

Soul_Demon wrote: »

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

Soul_Demon wrote: »

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

Soul_Demon wrote: »

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

@Soul_Demon Campaign victory rewards, AP, and former emperorship were all next to worthless long before ZOS removed faction locks from campaigns.

Since the locks were removed, our rates of AP gains have been increased, but more valuable goods have been added to AP vendors. Over all, AP has a stronger conversion rate and a stronger market for its goods than back then.

The gold you acquire from campaign victory rewards has been increased since the locks were removed. Note that items, including the old Master weapons, come from end of campaign rewards, which are a different mail entirely and not linked to winning the campaign at all.

And emperorship was arguably easier to get back then because there were more campaigns, meaning more first place people at any given time and more maps to be night capped. It's still stupid easy to get, and groups conspire to trade emps all the time in NA/PC Haderus.

So if anything....these things that you say were weakened because of multifaction play have gotten stronger over time...although for reasons completely unrelated to multifaction play. Your argument doesn't hold water.

I don't see the same thing you see.......but if you say it has gotten stronger and better from then to now with multi faction homing on same camps ect and ultra cheap camp swapping......do we have more servers and a larger population? Why did we have to consolidate servers just to populate two or three now rather than four or five fully populated as we had then?

Proof rests with our servers and in current population. For some, they may like those changes, but its a mere shadow of population of the community prior to the opening up of the flood gates. "I just want to play with my friends" is what started all of it when the mechanism already existed- we now play the end result.

You see what you want to see, not what's actually there.

Players quit because of lag and poor game balance, not multifactioners. Look at their complaints for yourself.

I see....so, my points don't 'hold water' and now I 'see what I want and not what is actually there'. Who could refute such solid logic so well explained and backed up with examples.

You should reread my and Winnie's posts.

I have and in both case see multi faction players who continue to post in support of something that is clear to most of the community isn't good for the game.

I'm a DC only player. Have been since very early 1.6. I don't even PvE with another faction character.

You should try to look at our points objectively instead of continuing to make assumptions.

For example, I question how much of the community really considers multifaction play bad for the game. Where is that perception coming from exactly? Lol

Here is what I see....you started the game December 2016, and the other poster started in October 2014.

I have listened and tried very hard to remain open minded regarding a different opinion, but in order to speak about things prior to your start dates you would need to have been here. You have every right to an opinion and I am glad you are voicing it, but in order to walk you through step by step I would need to make up for several years of play. I cant do that in a forum post.

Let me use your line here as I think it has particular relevance "You should try to look at our (my) points objectively" by reading what I posted. If there are parts of those explanations that don't make sense to you, maybe there are those in your playing 'circle' that could share background on what was actually happening then so you can get a better idea of why I have a different opinion on this issue.

Until then I am glad you have a different opinion, but I simply do not agree with it and as stated the proof is in our population and number of active campaigns we have.

Oh dear, no I've been playing since beta. I only started using the forums in 2014.
#assumptions

See what he said to me? lmfao This guy..

Soul_Demon wrote: »

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

Soul_Demon wrote: »

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

Soul_Demon wrote: »

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

Soul_Demon wrote: »

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

Soul_Demon wrote: »

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

Soul_Demon wrote: »

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

@Soul_Demon Campaign victory rewards, AP, and former emperorship were all next to worthless long before ZOS removed faction locks from campaigns.

Since the locks were removed, our rates of AP gains have been increased, but more valuable goods have been added to AP vendors. Over all, AP has a stronger conversion rate and a stronger market for its goods than back then.

The gold you acquire from campaign victory rewards has been increased since the locks were removed. Note that items, including the old Master weapons, come from end of campaign rewards, which are a different mail entirely and not linked to winning the campaign at all.

And emperorship was arguably easier to get back then because there were more campaigns, meaning more first place people at any given time and more maps to be night capped. It's still stupid easy to get, and groups conspire to trade emps all the time in NA/PC Haderus.

So if anything....these things that you say were weakened because of multifaction play have gotten stronger over time...although for reasons completely unrelated to multifaction play. Your argument doesn't hold water.

I don't see the same thing you see.......but if you say it has gotten stronger and better from then to now with multi faction homing on same camps ect and ultra cheap camp swapping......do we have more servers and a larger population? Why did we have to consolidate servers just to populate two or three now rather than four or five fully populated as we had then?

Proof rests with our servers and in current population. For some, they may like those changes, but its a mere shadow of population of the community prior to the opening up of the flood gates. "I just want to play with my friends" is what started all of it when the mechanism already existed- we now play the end result.

You see what you want to see, not what's actually there.

Players quit because of lag and poor game balance, not multifactioners. Look at their complaints for yourself.

I see....so, my points don't 'hold water' and now I 'see what I want and not what is actually there'. Who could refute such solid logic so well explained and backed up with examples.

You should reread my and Winnie's posts.

I have and in both case see multi faction players who continue to post in support of something that is clear to most of the community isn't good for the game.

I'm a DC only player. Have been since very early 1.6. I don't even PvE with another faction character.

You should try to look at our points objectively instead of continuing to make assumptions.

For example, I question how much of the community really considers multifaction play bad for the game. Where is that perception coming from exactly? Lol

Here is what I see....you started the game December 2016, and the other poster started in October 2014.

I have listened and tried very hard to remain open minded regarding a different opinion, but in order to speak about things prior to your start dates you would need to have been here. You have every right to an opinion and I am glad you are voicing it, but in order to walk you through step by step I would need to make up for several years of play. I cant do that in a forum post.

Let me use your line here as I think it has particular relevance "You should try to look at our (my) points objectively" by reading what I posted. If there are parts of those explanations that don't make sense to you, maybe there are those in your playing 'circle' that could share background on what was actually happening then so you can get a better idea of why I have a different opinion on this issue.

Until then I am glad you have a different opinion, but I simply do not agree with it and as stated the proof is in our population and number of active campaigns we have.

Um what? I have played ESO since early beta and have PvPed extensively in every group scale and play style since spring 2015. I spoke to no time period prior to then.

And population and number of active campaigns are not causally related to multifaction play or faction loyalty. I explained why already.

What happened to that first account from beta and the second one from spring 2015 then? Mine, as all the others I am aware of had to be changed over from the account creation tag to a new one for forum posting that wasn't the @name....it was tied to the start date of the account.
Username NightbladeMechanics Joined December 2016 Visits 35 Last Active 2:08PM Roles No Roles Points 1,376 Platform PC Badges 18

And in fact you keep speaking to a time when the rule set was different regarding multi faction playing, the cost to change campaigns, emp trading that resulted in the passives being dropped, and the ability to home different chars on the same server. Even in this very response you are speaking to populations you were not around for.

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/3698372/#Comment_3698372

I am guessing there is some hidden meaning in posting a link to ""Due to the overwhelming response..., we’ve decided .... Curse to retain its... PvP burst..." from January 17, 2017?

Haydenmango

Filthy spies should be punished!!!!

But seriously cross faction play is dumb imo because it ruins the purpose of a war when people can switch sides whenever they want. There currently is no pride, honor, or even purpose in your faction doing anything because your faction is actually made up of all 3 factions.

Your enemies yesterday may be your allies today,
that keep that was defended for hours is taken later on by the same people that were defending it,
having faction pride instantly means you are "taking the game to seriously" since those enemies are actually some of your allies friends so you shouldn't want to fight them,
your own "allies" won't help you in certain fights because you are attacking their friends,
your own "allies" cuss you out and put you on ignore for killing an enemy that happened to be their friend,
a huge group of enemies switches to your faction just to get their friend emperor and then they return to their previous faction once their friend is dethroned,
someone switches to their enemies faction to pick up a scroll to prevent that faction from capturing it,
someone realizes another faction is going to win the current campaign so they switch to it stacking the odds even more,
guilds switch factions to "balance" pvp meaning that giant zerg thats been killing you for months is now fighting with you or vice versa,
everything feels like a joke because your arch-enemies are beloved by your own faction,
etc. etc. etc.

I guess people just want to "play the game" aka "have battles with their buddies" but I believe "play the game" should mean "have battles with other factions" though I am willing to accept that may just be my point of view.

MattT1988

I have mates on all three factions and I'll play with them if I want to. Faction loyalty is overrated and outdated. It's a *** game not a real war, get a grip people.

White wabbit

MattT1988 wrote: »

I have mates on all three factions and I'll play with them if I want to. Faction loyalty is overrated and outdated. It's a *** game not a real war, get a grip people.

Yes it's a game , but I would like to be able to enjoy this game without idiots ruining it

Zinaroth

Winnamine wrote: »

Soul_Demon wrote: »

Winnamine wrote: »

Soul_Demon wrote: »

Rickter wrote: »

I wish there was a way to "flag" them and an icon or special characters would appear by their name on both nameplates and whenever they spoke in text

Great idea.....personally I feel like 90% of the unsavory activity in zone chat can be attributed to the players who are either multi faction or spies. Simply place an alliance icon next to their names in zone chat for what faction chars they have homed on the server. Could assist the faction loyalist in 'picking through' the multi faction "just playing with buddies" and boosting spy hard idiots who turn zone toxic.

Haha oh dear, I disagree completely. At least on PC/NA, those "faction loyalists" of yours tend to be the loudest, angriest, most intolerant blowhards that zone chat ever sees.
Probably because the kind of people who take a game so seriously that they have a problem with other players playing other sides don't tend to have a lot of perspective/a sense of humor.
****Exception for real RPers, you got your immersion, I get it, that's how you enjoy the game****

I see.....so if I read this correctly what you suggest is that by having the ability to change to a different character at any moment from any faction on the same server, this creates a friendly environment where people are less apt to worry about turning any particular area toxic. I mean just because you have only one faction doesn't mean it makes sense that you would not create a negative environment there because you would then be stuck in it......that is crazy talk.

Yeah, makes perfect sense now that you have laid it out for me....sounds legit to me.

Actually...yes. The people I know who play all 3 factions are some of the nicest, friendliest players in the game. That's why they play multiple factions, they have friends everywhere and want to play with them. If you're playing just to play with friends, here for the social aspect, you don't tend to be a hateful troll in zone chat.

Also, my comments referred to "faction loyalists," not merely players who only play one faction, but the ones who consider that a virtue. For reference, ask anyone on EP about the hate DiE got when they rerolled red, or when VE rerolled to DC, not to mention the hate both guilds got from their old factions for being "traitors." Those guilds rerolled literally just to help balance pvp by moving from the most populated faction to the current least populated faction, and the amount of hate and nastiness they encountered for their trouble was absolutely despicable. And you know what? It's not just rerolls and multifaction players who get that hate. These people love to take it upon themselves to police their faction, and any player or guild who doesn't act or play the game the "right" way, become targets.

I have hair raising examples of all of this, but I'd prefer not to get banned for naming and shaming.

BooskySG wrote: »

I keep seeing DiE and VE brought up as examples of X guild getting hate for swapping factions,yada yada muh faction purism claim. That's an amusing, albeit ignorant, claim. DiE got hate for swapping which faction they nightcapped for--the major reason the numerous TF campaigns ended up being red nightcapped daily.Yeah, the infamous string of TF campaigns that EP won that were noncompetitive. Simply put, ruining competition off-hours by stacking the faction that could compete against them--although barely as EP was outnumbered 5+ to 1 during the time period. I could also go into detail about how DiE brought drama over with them, e.g., blatant attempts at poaching members, telling DIE members they couldnt run with friends because their friends were in X guild,DiE starting *** with Crys, etc. To the wholly ignorant,yes, the DiE hate could be seen as hurr durr muh faction purism, but it wasnt.

As for VE, any hate they get in any of faction's zone chats was earned on a personal basis I'm sure and not from their bazillion faction swaps from campaign to campaign and even mid-campaign at times.

Inb4 more conflation of attempts to retain competitiveness in Cyro campaigns with faction purism. Oh wait, no one cares about Cyro objectives or campaign wins anymore and everyone plays every faction. What a shocker lol

Edit: Almost forgot to mention that DiE and Alacrity were having beef at the same time DiE swapped over to EP, so there's yet another layer to that drama fest of a faction swap

You NA PvP boys have an astounding ability to come into every thread created on the alliance section of the forums, no matter the topic, and make it all about your own megaserver and the politics/drama going on there. One could be tempted to apply a broader perspective, in which a generalisation about your nation is involved; but I guess that would be too generalizing and ignorant of me. I am however truely amazed at this behavioural pattern you exhibit...

NightbladeMechanics

Zinaroth wrote: »

Winnamine wrote: »

Soul_Demon wrote: »

Winnamine wrote: »

Soul_Demon wrote: »

Rickter wrote: »

I wish there was a way to "flag" them and an icon or special characters would appear by their name on both nameplates and whenever they spoke in text

Great idea.....personally I feel like 90% of the unsavory activity in zone chat can be attributed to the players who are either multi faction or spies. Simply place an alliance icon next to their names in zone chat for what faction chars they have homed on the server. Could assist the faction loyalist in 'picking through' the multi faction "just playing with buddies" and boosting spy hard idiots who turn zone toxic.

Haha oh dear, I disagree completely. At least on PC/NA, those "faction loyalists" of yours tend to be the loudest, angriest, most intolerant blowhards that zone chat ever sees.
Probably because the kind of people who take a game so seriously that they have a problem with other players playing other sides don't tend to have a lot of perspective/a sense of humor.
****Exception for real RPers, you got your immersion, I get it, that's how you enjoy the game****

I see.....so if I read this correctly what you suggest is that by having the ability to change to a different character at any moment from any faction on the same server, this creates a friendly environment where people are less apt to worry about turning any particular area toxic. I mean just because you have only one faction doesn't mean it makes sense that you would not create a negative environment there because you would then be stuck in it......that is crazy talk.

Yeah, makes perfect sense now that you have laid it out for me....sounds legit to me.

Actually...yes. The people I know who play all 3 factions are some of the nicest, friendliest players in the game. That's why they play multiple factions, they have friends everywhere and want to play with them. If you're playing just to play with friends, here for the social aspect, you don't tend to be a hateful troll in zone chat.

Also, my comments referred to "faction loyalists," not merely players who only play one faction, but the ones who consider that a virtue. For reference, ask anyone on EP about the hate DiE got when they rerolled red, or when VE rerolled to DC, not to mention the hate both guilds got from their old factions for being "traitors." Those guilds rerolled literally just to help balance pvp by moving from the most populated faction to the current least populated faction, and the amount of hate and nastiness they encountered for their trouble was absolutely despicable. And you know what? It's not just rerolls and multifaction players who get that hate. These people love to take it upon themselves to police their faction, and any player or guild who doesn't act or play the game the "right" way, become targets.

I have hair raising examples of all of this, but I'd prefer not to get banned for naming and shaming.

BooskySG wrote: »

I keep seeing DiE and VE brought up as examples of X guild getting hate for swapping factions,yada yada muh faction purism claim. That's an amusing, albeit ignorant, claim. DiE got hate for swapping which faction they nightcapped for--the major reason the numerous TF campaigns ended up being red nightcapped daily.Yeah, the infamous string of TF campaigns that EP won that were noncompetitive. Simply put, ruining competition off-hours by stacking the faction that could compete against them--although barely as EP was outnumbered 5+ to 1 during the time period. I could also go into detail about how DiE brought drama over with them, e.g., blatant attempts at poaching members, telling DIE members they couldnt run with friends because their friends were in X guild,DiE starting *** with Crys, etc. To the wholly ignorant,yes, the DiE hate could be seen as hurr durr muh faction purism, but it wasnt.

As for VE, any hate they get in any of faction's zone chats was earned on a personal basis I'm sure and not from their bazillion faction swaps from campaign to campaign and even mid-campaign at times.

Inb4 more conflation of attempts to retain competitiveness in Cyro campaigns with faction purism. Oh wait, no one cares about Cyro objectives or campaign wins anymore and everyone plays every faction. What a shocker lol

Edit: Almost forgot to mention that DiE and Alacrity were having beef at the same time DiE swapped over to EP, so there's yet another layer to that drama fest of a faction swap

You NA PvP boys have an astounding ability to come into every thread created on the alliance section of the forums, no matter the topic, and make it all about your own megaserver and the politics/drama going on there. One could be tempted to apply a broader perspective, in which a generalisation about your nation is involved; but I guess that would be too generalizing and ignorant of me. I am however truely amazed at this behavioural pattern you exhibit...

1) the NA server serves four continents.

2) they're making observations from their personal experience, which happens to be on the NA server.

You're the one making generalizations and creating arbitrary hate.

BooskySG

Winnamine wrote: »

BooskySG wrote: »

I keep seeing DiE and VE brought up as examples of X guild getting hate for swapping factions,yada yada muh faction purism claim. That's an amusing, albeit ignorant, claim. DiE got hate for swapping which faction they nightcapped for--the major reason the numerous TF campaigns ended up being red nightcapped daily.Yeah, the infamous string of TF campaigns that EP won that were noncompetitive. Simply put, ruining competition off-hours by stacking the faction that could compete against them--although barely as EP was outnumbered 5+ to 1 during the time period. I could also go into detail about how DiE brought drama over with them, e.g., blatant attempts at poaching members, telling DIE members they couldnt run with friends because their friends were in X guild,DiE starting *** with Crys, etc. To the wholly ignorant,yes, the DiE hate could be seen as hurr durr muh faction purism, but it wasnt.

As for VE, any hate they get in any of faction's zone chats was earned on a personal basis I'm sure and not from their bazillion faction swaps from campaign to campaign and even mid-campaign at times.

Inb4 more conflation of attempts to retain competitiveness in Cyro campaigns with faction purism. Oh wait, no one cares about Cyro objectives or campaign wins anymore and everyone plays every faction. What a shocker lol

Edit: Almost forgot to mention that DiE and Alacrity were having beef at the same time DiE swapped over to EP, so there's yet another layer to that drama fest of a faction swap

It was Venatus, actually, not Alacrity.

And sure, VE and DiE, and subsequently Havoc, had plenty of their own drama going on, but that doesn't negate the hate they got for faction hopping, and they did. They really did.

And like you said, EP was outnumbered when DiE switched, their switch was necessary at the time, it was just ill timed because immediately after, AD collapsed when Venatus left and Alacrity stopped being competitive.

DiE had drama with Venatus in addition to the well-known drama they had with Alacrity at the time? When did Igni Ferroque dissolve anyway? Hell, a certain DiE subset still has some residual dislike going on considering certain Alacrity people's interest in Havoc getting bodied on BDO,etc.

I never denied DiE got hate for swapping factions. I scoffed at the claim that it was because of faction purism. DiE got hate because they swapped to the faction that won the previous campaign, brought loads of drama with them(certain elements of said drama still exist to this day),largely contributed to the half-year reign of EP PvDoor TF cycles,and insulted everyones' intelligence by claiming the swap was purely for "balance". Yeah, a well-known,night-capping crew swapping to the winning faction,while in the middle of major drama with their old faction, was "balance". Please, no one is stupid enough to believe that self-serving,savior narrative. Nothing but love for Moon, but that load of bs was classic. Almost as funny as when VE borrowed it hook,line,and sinker to the same effect.

If DiE gave a *** about balance, they wouldn't have had a full raid stacked at Arrius mine nightly while playing AD, period--fun fights but far from balanced. It's like people don't understand that you can positively effect balance via inaction. Have a full raid while your faction has 70+ to the enemy's 10ish people? Simple, don't contribute to pushing objectives and definitely don't show up at a scroll temple 70v10 or 70v4 and claim "looking for competitive fights". If the DiE swap was solely for balance, DiE would've went DC for TF 1. Inb4 the usual albeit wholly ignorant posturing claim of "but NM".

Edit: Also, even though Luv and Dream led Alacrity was weak, it was still a top 3 AD guild at the time.

Zinaroth

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

1) the NA server serves four continents.

So does the European megaserver. Besides this is irrelevant.

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

2) they're making observations from their personal experience, which happens to be on the NA server.

No... They are discussing NA megaserver guild politics/drama which might in some way be related to the topic. But they do not relate it to the topic and it is clear that their intention isn't to provide anything productive to the discussion but just to bash each other. Let's not attribute people who come on forums to argue over PvP drama any grand motives, shall we?

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

You're the one making generalizations and creating arbitrary hate.

Probably less than the people I actually adressed... But regardless I never claimed otherwise.

BooskySG

Zinaroth wrote: »

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

1) the NA server serves four continents.

So does the European megaserver. Besides this is irrelevant.

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

2) they're making observations from their personal experience, which happens to be on the NA server.

No... They are discussing NA megaserver guild politics/drama which might in some way be related to the topic. But they do not relate it to the topic and it is clear that their intention isn't to provide anything productive to the discussion but just to bash each other. Let's not attribute people who come on forums to argue over PvP drama any grand motives, shall we?

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

You're the one making generalizations and creating arbitrary hate.

Probably less than the people I actually adressed... But regardless I never claimed otherwise.

Oh sorry, Grand Arbiter of What's On-Topic, forgive us NA players for discussing NA matters on a site hosted on an NA server. Please forgive us, oh Grand Arbiter of What's On-Topic. We shall go back to OP's original point of "hurr durr muh spais". That will be productive for sure, definitely hasn't been talked to death since release.

Soul_Demon

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

Winnamine wrote: »

Soul_Demon wrote: »

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

Soul_Demon wrote: »

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

Soul_Demon wrote: »

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

Soul_Demon wrote: »

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

@Soul_Demon Campaign victory rewards, AP, and former emperorship were all next to worthless long before ZOS removed faction locks from campaigns.

Since the locks were removed, our rates of AP gains have been increased, but more valuable goods have been added to AP vendors. Over all, AP has a stronger conversion rate and a stronger market for its goods than back then.

The gold you acquire from campaign victory rewards has been increased since the locks were removed. Note that items, including the old Master weapons, come from end of campaign rewards, which are a different mail entirely and not linked to winning the campaign at all.

And emperorship was arguably easier to get back then because there were more campaigns, meaning more first place people at any given time and more maps to be night capped. It's still stupid easy to get, and groups conspire to trade emps all the time in NA/PC Haderus.

So if anything....these things that you say were weakened because of multifaction play have gotten stronger over time...although for reasons completely unrelated to multifaction play. Your argument doesn't hold water.

I don't see the same thing you see.......but if you say it has gotten stronger and better from then to now with multi faction homing on same camps ect and ultra cheap camp swapping......do we have more servers and a larger population? Why did we have to consolidate servers just to populate two or three now rather than four or five fully populated as we had then?

Proof rests with our servers and in current population. For some, they may like those changes, but its a mere shadow of population of the community prior to the opening up of the flood gates. "I just want to play with my friends" is what started all of it when the mechanism already existed- we now play the end result.

You see what you want to see, not what's actually there.

Players quit because of lag and poor game balance, not multifactioners. Look at their complaints for yourself.

I see....so, my points don't 'hold water' and now I 'see what I want and not what is actually there'. Who could refute such solid logic so well explained and backed up with examples.

You should reread my and Winnie's posts.

I have and in both case see multi faction players who continue to post in support of something that is clear to most of the community isn't good for the game.

I'm a DC only player. Have been since very early 1.6. I don't even PvE with another faction character.

You should try to look at our points objectively instead of continuing to make assumptions.

For example, I question how much of the community really considers multifaction play bad for the game. Where is that perception coming from exactly? Lol

Here is what I see....you started the game December 2016, and the other poster started in October 2014.

I have listened and tried very hard to remain open minded regarding a different opinion, but in order to speak about things prior to your start dates you would need to have been here. You have every right to an opinion and I am glad you are voicing it, but in order to walk you through step by step I would need to make up for several years of play. I cant do that in a forum post.

Let me use your line here as I think it has particular relevance "You should try to look at our (my) points objectively" by reading what I posted. If there are parts of those explanations that don't make sense to you, maybe there are those in your playing 'circle' that could share background on what was actually happening then so you can get a better idea of why I have a different opinion on this issue.

Until then I am glad you have a different opinion, but I simply do not agree with it and as stated the proof is in our population and number of active campaigns we have.

Oh dear, no I've been playing since beta. I only started using the forums in 2014.
#assumptions

See what he said to me? lmfao This guy..

Soul_Demon wrote: »

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

Soul_Demon wrote: »

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

Soul_Demon wrote: »

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

Soul_Demon wrote: »

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

Soul_Demon wrote: »

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

Soul_Demon wrote: »

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

@Soul_Demon Campaign victory rewards, AP, and former emperorship were all next to worthless long before ZOS removed faction locks from campaigns.

Since the locks were removed, our rates of AP gains have been increased, but more valuable goods have been added to AP vendors. Over all, AP has a stronger conversion rate and a stronger market for its goods than back then.

The gold you acquire from campaign victory rewards has been increased since the locks were removed. Note that items, including the old Master weapons, come from end of campaign rewards, which are a different mail entirely and not linked to winning the campaign at all.

And emperorship was arguably easier to get back then because there were more campaigns, meaning more first place people at any given time and more maps to be night capped. It's still stupid easy to get, and groups conspire to trade emps all the time in NA/PC Haderus.

So if anything....these things that you say were weakened because of multifaction play have gotten stronger over time...although for reasons completely unrelated to multifaction play. Your argument doesn't hold water.

I don't see the same thing you see.......but if you say it has gotten stronger and better from then to now with multi faction homing on same camps ect and ultra cheap camp swapping......do we have more servers and a larger population? Why did we have to consolidate servers just to populate two or three now rather than four or five fully populated as we had then?

Proof rests with our servers and in current population. For some, they may like those changes, but its a mere shadow of population of the community prior to the opening up of the flood gates. "I just want to play with my friends" is what started all of it when the mechanism already existed- we now play the end result.

You see what you want to see, not what's actually there.

Players quit because of lag and poor game balance, not multifactioners. Look at their complaints for yourself.

I see....so, my points don't 'hold water' and now I 'see what I want and not what is actually there'. Who could refute such solid logic so well explained and backed up with examples.

You should reread my and Winnie's posts.

I have and in both case see multi faction players who continue to post in support of something that is clear to most of the community isn't good for the game.

I'm a DC only player. Have been since very early 1.6. I don't even PvE with another faction character.

You should try to look at our points objectively instead of continuing to make assumptions.

For example, I question how much of the community really considers multifaction play bad for the game. Where is that perception coming from exactly? Lol

Here is what I see....you started the game December 2016, and the other poster started in October 2014.

I have listened and tried very hard to remain open minded regarding a different opinion, but in order to speak about things prior to your start dates you would need to have been here. You have every right to an opinion and I am glad you are voicing it, but in order to walk you through step by step I would need to make up for several years of play. I cant do that in a forum post.

Let me use your line here as I think it has particular relevance "You should try to look at our (my) points objectively" by reading what I posted. If there are parts of those explanations that don't make sense to you, maybe there are those in your playing 'circle' that could share background on what was actually happening then so you can get a better idea of why I have a different opinion on this issue.

Until then I am glad you have a different opinion, but I simply do not agree with it and as stated the proof is in our population and number of active campaigns we have.

Um what? I have played ESO since early beta and have PvPed extensively in every group scale and play style since spring 2015. I spoke to no time period prior to then.

And population and number of active campaigns are not causally related to multifaction play or faction loyalty. I explained why already.

What happened to that first account from beta and the second one from spring 2015 then? Mine, as all the others I am aware of had to be changed over from the account creation tag to a new one for forum posting that wasn't the @name....it was tied to the start date of the account.
Username NightbladeMechanics Joined December 2016 Visits 35 Last Active 2:08PM Roles No Roles Points 1,376 Platform PC Badges 18

And in fact you keep speaking to a time when the rule set was different regarding multi faction playing, the cost to change campaigns, emp trading that resulted in the passives being dropped, and the ability to home different chars on the same server. Even in this very response you are speaking to populations you were not around for.

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/3698372/#Comment_3698372

I am guessing there is some hidden meaning in posting a link to ""Due to the overwhelming response..., we’ve decided .... Curse to retain its... PvP burst..." from January 17, 2017?

I am guessing neither of you two do, in beta we reported our findings so we had forum accounts that converted over to general forum after......getting pretty clear you both bought second accounts (for reasons) or both lied and were caught. No other explanation- and in both cases not really spokespeople for the community as a whole regarding what is good for the community.

I am sure there is some really, really interesting story to how (reasons) or you sold your computer to traveling gypsies- that will be lie too. This is getting really comical. Winnie, click on your icon and tell me what the date of start says there? About that story of how you just started posting a year after beta....what was that?

Soul_Demon

.

Soul_Demon

Why is it the multi faction playing seem to be the forum warriors who post at every single thread that even hints at it not being a good thing with such veracity? No real explanations of why its a good thing, but I am not seeing why its so important to preserve what has allowed boosting and pvdooring to become so prevalent.

NightbladeMechanics

Soul_Demon wrote: »

Why is it the multi faction playing seem to be the forum warriors who post at every single thread that even hints at it not being a good thing with such veracity? No real explanations of why its a good thing, but I am not seeing why its so important to preserve what has allowed boosting and pvdooring to become so prevalent.

PvDoor and buff campaigns were a larger issue while faction locks were in place than they are now.

Multifactionism increases social value and depth of the game, which is an mmo for crying out loud. It's a social game before it's a competitive one.

And my link was to a particular comment in that thread. Go read the damned comment and replies to it instead of blowing more hot air. Do I seriously have to hold your hand?

My start date is February 2014. My main forum account was banned for naming but not shaming in a humor post during that big irrational crackdown last summer. There were many perfectly civil casualties, and ZOS has since loosened moderation accordingly. My game account is intact and has never received disciplinary action in any capacity from ZOS. I've been around from the beginning and am eminently qualified to share my opinions regarding the state of the game.

Also notice that multifaction players comment in response to toxic faction loyalists complaining and raging about them. This very thread is accusing multifaction players of operating maliciously against the factions and asking ZOS to kill on sight... Other threads demand faction locks despite their utter failure as a game feature years ago.

RapidUrsa

I have a question for you OP! What if you play as an Imperial?

NightbladeMechanics

Zinaroth wrote: »

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

1) the NA server serves four continents.

So does the European megaserver. Besides this is irrelevant.

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

2) they're making observations from their personal experience, which happens to be on the NA server.

No... They are discussing NA megaserver guild politics/drama which might in some way be related to the topic. But they do not relate it to the topic and it is clear that their intention isn't to provide anything productive to the discussion but just to bash each other. Let's not attribute people who come on forums to argue over PvP drama any grand motives, shall we?

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

You're the one making generalizations and creating arbitrary hate.

Probably less than the people I actually adressed... But regardless I never claimed otherwise.

You extrapolated people talking about past events on the NA server into a jab at "our country." I pointed out your narrow, jaded perspective by noting that the NA server serves half of the world. Plenty relevant.

Winnie highlighted toxicity in the faction loyalist community by recalling hate that past guilds have received for switching factions in order to contribute to more balanced server populations.

Boosky said that those guilds received hate not simply because they rerolled factions, but because they had preexisting individual drama or rerolled factions for ulterior motives, like enforcing a buff server for PvEers.

100% on topic and relevant points.

Soul_Demon

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

Soul_Demon wrote: »

Why is it the multi faction playing seem to be the forum warriors who post at every single thread that even hints at it not being a good thing with such veracity? No real explanations of why its a good thing, but I am not seeing why its so important to preserve what has allowed boosting and pvdooring to become so prevalent.

PvDoor and buff campaigns were a larger issue while faction locks were in place than they are now.

And my link was to a particular comment in that thread. Go read the damned comment and replies to it instead of blowing more hot air. Do I seriously have to hold your hand?

My start date is February 2014.

Let me help you with this one last time, right click on your own avatar and read the top part of the window that comes up
Username NightbladeMechanics Joined December 2016

And I read your link, it was an attempt to not answer direct questions by letting the reader 'guess' and fill in the blank as to why you gave dates that were not reflected on your account. Not one, not two, but in fact three dates. Good tactic for school kids, but it doesn't work on some as well as others. I saw you were referencing the sig line and avatar being two different names- so (reasons) you have purchased not one, not two but in fact three different accounts because?.......Here is the part where the cloak and dagger is supposed to kick in and we insert explanation with you never really saying why. But we both know what that is already, don't we? The simplest of them....you lied.

Pvdoor was much, much more expensive and harder to do because of the AP cost to change over frequently and number of servers limited the utility of such a thing- cheaper cost and allowing multiple alliances to be homed on the same camps moved the activity from occasional, to where it now is commonplace. We now have fewer players and few servers and the ability to home multiple chars on the same camp of different alliances has further degraded that AvAvA dynamic.

NightbladeMechanics

Soul_Demon wrote: »

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

Soul_Demon wrote: »

Why is it the multi faction playing seem to be the forum warriors who post at every single thread that even hints at it not being a good thing with such veracity? No real explanations of why its a good thing, but I am not seeing why its so important to preserve what has allowed boosting and pvdooring to become so prevalent.

PvDoor and buff campaigns were a larger issue while faction locks were in place than they are now.

And my link was to a particular comment in that thread. Go read the damned comment and replies to it instead of blowing more hot air. Do I seriously have to hold your hand?

My start date is February 2014.

Let me help you with this one last time, right click on your own avatar and read the top part of the window that comes up
Username NightbladeMechanics Joined December 2016

And I read your link, it was an attempt to not answer direct questions by letting the reader 'guess' and fill in the blank as to why you gave dates that were not reflected on your account. Not one, not two, but in fact three dates. Good tactic for school kids, but it doesn't work on some as well as others. I saw you were referencing the sig line and avatar being two different names- so (reasons) you have purchased not one, not two but in fact three different accounts because?.......Here is the part where the cloak and dagger is supposed to kick in and we insert explanation with you never really saying why. But we both know what that is already, don't we? The simplest of them....you lied.

Pvdoor was much, much more expensive and harder to do because of the AP cost to change over frequently and number of servers limited the utility of such a thing- cheaper cost and allowing multiple alliances to be homed on the same camps moved the activity from occasional, to where it now is commonplace. We now have fewer players and few servers and the ability to home multiple chars on the same camp of different alliances has further degraded that AvAvA dynamic.

Go read the rest of my post. I added an edit 9 minutes before you posted your original reply. You really don't read, do you? lol You're completely off base and have been embarrassing yourself trying to bash me of all people this whole time. I sincerely did not expect to have to spell all of this out for you!

And PvDoor buff servers were locked down by entire guilds to keep entire campaigns one color for pve buffs back when emperor buffs were a thing. Faction locks were entirely not an obstacle for them. This is no longer a behavior because pve buffs were removed, also not related to multifaction play. Overall, the campaigns are healthier because pve buffs aren't around, and people can switch factions to fight against a zerg when one shows up to paint a map one color.

NightbladeMechanics

@Soul_Demon would you like to come to my house and see my beta monkey? I'll let you pet him.

Soul_Demon

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

Soul_Demon wrote: »

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

Soul_Demon wrote: »

Why is it the multi faction playing seem to be the forum warriors who post at every single thread that even hints at it not being a good thing with such veracity? No real explanations of why its a good thing, but I am not seeing why its so important to preserve what has allowed boosting and pvdooring to become so prevalent.

PvDoor and buff campaigns were a larger issue while faction locks were in place than they are now.

And my link was to a particular comment in that thread. Go read the damned comment and replies to it instead of blowing more hot air. Do I seriously have to hold your hand?

My start date is February 2014.

Let me help you with this one last time, right click on your own avatar and read the top part of the window that comes up
Username NightbladeMechanics Joined December 2016

And I read your link, it was an attempt to not answer direct questions by letting the reader 'guess' and fill in the blank as to why you gave dates that were not reflected on your account. Not one, not two, but in fact three dates. Good tactic for school kids, but it doesn't work on some as well as others. I saw you were referencing the sig line and avatar being two different names- so (reasons) you have purchased not one, not two but in fact three different accounts because?.......Here is the part where the cloak and dagger is supposed to kick in and we insert explanation with you never really saying why. But we both know what that is already, don't we? The simplest of them....you lied.

Pvdoor was much, much more expensive and harder to do because of the AP cost to change over frequently and number of servers limited the utility of such a thing- cheaper cost and allowing multiple alliances to be homed on the same camps moved the activity from occasional, to where it now is commonplace. We now have fewer players and few servers and the ability to home multiple chars on the same camp of different alliances has further degraded that AvAvA dynamic.

Go read the rest of my post. I added an edit 9 minutes before you posted your original reply. You really don't read, do you? lol You're completely off base and have been embarrassing yourself trying to bash me of all people this whole time. I sincerely did not expect to have to spell all of this out for you!

And PvDoor buff servers were locked down by entire guilds to keep entire campaigns one color for pve buffs back when emperor buffs were a thing. Faction locks were entirely not an obstacle for them. This is no longer a behavior because pve buffs were removed, also not related to multifaction play. Overall, the campaigns are healthier because pve buffs aren't around, and people can switch factions to fight against a zerg when one shows up to paint a map one color.

That is what, the fourth or so time you have said read your posts, but in fact you are rehashing things that have already been spoken to and dispelled in this thread. Maybe take your own advice and read real quick the first two pages and come on back up to speed. Keep getting snarky and being upset, it just shows how easily you fail to make a point and start trying to degenerate this to an argument instead of a discussion. It makes you look worse each time you do it.

Saying something wasn't an obstacle is not showing how it wasn't, in fact is not saying anything at all unless you can point to some positive impact multi factioning and homing different alliances on the same server did to improve the number of active servers and population of the game. This is not what happened.

The_4O4

Taylor_MB wrote: »

Tangril is a DC spy confirmed because he didn't help some pugs 4v1 White Mage (Mage won).

And apparently I'm a Daedra spy, not sure how that happened.

In b4 you're banned for naming and shaming

NightbladeMechanics

Soul_Demon wrote: »

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

Soul_Demon wrote: »

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

Soul_Demon wrote: »

Why is it the multi faction playing seem to be the forum warriors who post at every single thread that even hints at it not being a good thing with such veracity? No real explanations of why its a good thing, but I am not seeing why its so important to preserve what has allowed boosting and pvdooring to become so prevalent.

PvDoor and buff campaigns were a larger issue while faction locks were in place than they are now.

And my link was to a particular comment in that thread. Go read the damned comment and replies to it instead of blowing more hot air. Do I seriously have to hold your hand?

My start date is February 2014.

Let me help you with this one last time, right click on your own avatar and read the top part of the window that comes up
Username NightbladeMechanics Joined December 2016

And I read your link, it was an attempt to not answer direct questions by letting the reader 'guess' and fill in the blank as to why you gave dates that were not reflected on your account. Not one, not two, but in fact three dates. Good tactic for school kids, but it doesn't work on some as well as others. I saw you were referencing the sig line and avatar being two different names- so (reasons) you have purchased not one, not two but in fact three different accounts because?.......Here is the part where the cloak and dagger is supposed to kick in and we insert explanation with you never really saying why. But we both know what that is already, don't we? The simplest of them....you lied.

Pvdoor was much, much more expensive and harder to do because of the AP cost to change over frequently and number of servers limited the utility of such a thing- cheaper cost and allowing multiple alliances to be homed on the same camps moved the activity from occasional, to where it now is commonplace. We now have fewer players and few servers and the ability to home multiple chars on the same camp of different alliances has further degraded that AvAvA dynamic.

Go read the rest of my post. I added an edit 9 minutes before you posted your original reply. You really don't read, do you? lol You're completely off base and have been embarrassing yourself trying to bash me of all people this whole time. I sincerely did not expect to have to spell all of this out for you!

And PvDoor buff servers were locked down by entire guilds to keep entire campaigns one color for pve buffs back when emperor buffs were a thing. Faction locks were entirely not an obstacle for them. This is no longer a behavior because pve buffs were removed, also not related to multifaction play. Overall, the campaigns are healthier because pve buffs aren't around, and people can switch factions to fight against a zerg when one shows up to paint a map one color.

That is what, the fourth or so time you have said read your posts, but in fact you are rehashing things that have already been spoken to and dispelled in this thread. Maybe take your own advice and read real quick the first two pages and come on back up to speed. Keep getting snarky and being upset, it just shows how easily you fail to make a point and start trying to degenerate this to an argument instead of a discussion. It makes you look worse each time you do it.

Saying something wasn't an obstacle is not showing how it wasn't, in fact is not saying anything at all unless you can point to some positive impact multi factioning and homing different alliances on the same server did to improve the number of active servers and population of the game. This is not what happened.

No seriously, you missed like half of my post explaining my forum start date. Did you cut it out of your quote or something to avoid it? Lol

And faction locks aren't an obstacle if you aren't changing factions... There, I stated the obvious. Happy?

Soul_Demon

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

Soul_Demon wrote: »

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

Soul_Demon wrote: »

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

Soul_Demon wrote: »

Why is it the multi faction playing seem to be the forum warriors who post at every single thread that even hints at it not being a good thing with such veracity? No real explanations of why its a good thing, but I am not seeing why its so important to preserve what has allowed boosting and pvdooring to become so prevalent.

PvDoor and buff campaigns were a larger issue while faction locks were in place than they are now.

And my link was to a particular comment in that thread. Go read the damned comment and replies to it instead of blowing more hot air. Do I seriously have to hold your hand?

My start date is February 2014.

Let me help you with this one last time, right click on your own avatar and read the top part of the window that comes up
Username NightbladeMechanics Joined December 2016

And I read your link, it was an attempt to not answer direct questions by letting the reader 'guess' and fill in the blank as to why you gave dates that were not reflected on your account. Not one, not two, but in fact three dates. Good tactic for school kids, but it doesn't work on some as well as others. I saw you were referencing the sig line and avatar being two different names- so (reasons) you have purchased not one, not two but in fact three different accounts because?.......Here is the part where the cloak and dagger is supposed to kick in and we insert explanation with you never really saying why. But we both know what that is already, don't we? The simplest of them....you lied.

Pvdoor was much, much more expensive and harder to do because of the AP cost to change over frequently and number of servers limited the utility of such a thing- cheaper cost and allowing multiple alliances to be homed on the same camps moved the activity from occasional, to where it now is commonplace. We now have fewer players and few servers and the ability to home multiple chars on the same camp of different alliances has further degraded that AvAvA dynamic.

Go read the rest of my post. I added an edit 9 minutes before you posted your original reply. You really don't read, do you? lol You're completely off base and have been embarrassing yourself trying to bash me of all people this whole time. I sincerely did not expect to have to spell all of this out for you!

And PvDoor buff servers were locked down by entire guilds to keep entire campaigns one color for pve buffs back when emperor buffs were a thing. Faction locks were entirely not an obstacle for them. This is no longer a behavior because pve buffs were removed, also not related to multifaction play. Overall, the campaigns are healthier because pve buffs aren't around, and people can switch factions to fight against a zerg when one shows up to paint a map one color.

That is what, the fourth or so time you have said read your posts, but in fact you are rehashing things that have already been spoken to and dispelled in this thread. Maybe take your own advice and read real quick the first two pages and come on back up to speed. Keep getting snarky and being upset, it just shows how easily you fail to make a point and start trying to degenerate this to an argument instead of a discussion. It makes you look worse each time you do it.

Saying something wasn't an obstacle is not showing how it wasn't, in fact is not saying anything at all unless you can point to some positive impact multi factioning and homing different alliances on the same server did to improve the number of active servers and population of the game. This is not what happened.

No seriously, you missed like half of my post explaining my forum start date. Did you cut it out of your quote or something to avoid it? Lol

And faction locks aren't an obstacle if you aren't changing factions... There, I stated the obvious. Happy?

Good deal.....you have come full circle now. Your support of the reduced cost to swap campaigns as well as homing multiple faction's on the same server logic is irrefutable, and noted......appreciate that input to better illustrate why you like these things.

Winnamine

Zinaroth wrote: »

Winnamine wrote: »

Soul_Demon wrote: »

Winnamine wrote: »

Soul_Demon wrote: »

Rickter wrote: »

I wish there was a way to "flag" them and an icon or special characters would appear by their name on both nameplates and whenever they spoke in text

Great idea.....personally I feel like 90% of the unsavory activity in zone chat can be attributed to the players who are either multi faction or spies. Simply place an alliance icon next to their names in zone chat for what faction chars they have homed on the server. Could assist the faction loyalist in 'picking through' the multi faction "just playing with buddies" and boosting spy hard idiots who turn zone toxic.

Haha oh dear, I disagree completely. At least on PC/NA, those "faction loyalists" of yours tend to be the loudest, angriest, most intolerant blowhards that zone chat ever sees.
Probably because the kind of people who take a game so seriously that they have a problem with other players playing other sides don't tend to have a lot of perspective/a sense of humor.
****Exception for real RPers, you got your immersion, I get it, that's how you enjoy the game****

I see.....so if I read this correctly what you suggest is that by having the ability to change to a different character at any moment from any faction on the same server, this creates a friendly environment where people are less apt to worry about turning any particular area toxic. I mean just because you have only one faction doesn't mean it makes sense that you would not create a negative environment there because you would then be stuck in it......that is crazy talk.

Yeah, makes perfect sense now that you have laid it out for me....sounds legit to me.

Actually...yes. The people I know who play all 3 factions are some of the nicest, friendliest players in the game. That's why they play multiple factions, they have friends everywhere and want to play with them. If you're playing just to play with friends, here for the social aspect, you don't tend to be a hateful troll in zone chat.

Also, my comments referred to "faction loyalists," not merely players who only play one faction, but the ones who consider that a virtue. For reference, ask anyone on EP about the hate DiE got when they rerolled red, or when VE rerolled to DC, not to mention the hate both guilds got from their old factions for being "traitors." Those guilds rerolled literally just to help balance pvp by moving from the most populated faction to the current least populated faction, and the amount of hate and nastiness they encountered for their trouble was absolutely despicable. And you know what? It's not just rerolls and multifaction players who get that hate. These people love to take it upon themselves to police their faction, and any player or guild who doesn't act or play the game the "right" way, become targets.

I have hair raising examples of all of this, but I'd prefer not to get banned for naming and shaming.

BooskySG wrote: »

I keep seeing DiE and VE brought up as examples of X guild getting hate for swapping factions,yada yada muh faction purism claim. That's an amusing, albeit ignorant, claim. DiE got hate for swapping which faction they nightcapped for--the major reason the numerous TF campaigns ended up being red nightcapped daily.Yeah, the infamous string of TF campaigns that EP won that were noncompetitive. Simply put, ruining competition off-hours by stacking the faction that could compete against them--although barely as EP was outnumbered 5+ to 1 during the time period. I could also go into detail about how DiE brought drama over with them, e.g., blatant attempts at poaching members, telling DIE members they couldnt run with friends because their friends were in X guild,DiE starting *** with Crys, etc. To the wholly ignorant,yes, the DiE hate could be seen as hurr durr muh faction purism, but it wasnt.

As for VE, any hate they get in any of faction's zone chats was earned on a personal basis I'm sure and not from their bazillion faction swaps from campaign to campaign and even mid-campaign at times.

Inb4 more conflation of attempts to retain competitiveness in Cyro campaigns with faction purism. Oh wait, no one cares about Cyro objectives or campaign wins anymore and everyone plays every faction. What a shocker lol

Edit: Almost forgot to mention that DiE and Alacrity were having beef at the same time DiE swapped over to EP, so there's yet another layer to that drama fest of a faction swap

You NA PvP boys have an astounding ability to come into every thread created on the alliance section of the forums, no matter the topic, and make it all about your own megaserver and the politics/drama going on there. One could be tempted to apply a broader perspective, in which a generalisation about your nation is involved; but I guess that would be too generalizing and ignorant of me. I am however truely amazed at this behavioural pattern you exhibit...

Indeed, that would be very ignorant of you. I assume you're referring to The US as "your nation?" Assuming, ofc, that everyone on PC NA is American...No Canadians, no Aussies, no one from Latin or South America, no rogue Europeans?
Oh and, boys? Guess all we have here are American dudes.

In any event, I'd happily use examples from EU to support my opinion, unfortunately, I don't play there, so I know as little about their politics/drama as you appear to know about the player composition of PC NA.

Elong

Soul_Demon wrote: »

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

Winnamine wrote: »

Soul_Demon wrote: »

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

Soul_Demon wrote: »

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

Soul_Demon wrote: »

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

Soul_Demon wrote: »

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

@Soul_Demon Campaign victory rewards, AP, and former emperorship were all next to worthless long before ZOS removed faction locks from campaigns.

Since the locks were removed, our rates of AP gains have been increased, but more valuable goods have been added to AP vendors. Over all, AP has a stronger conversion rate and a stronger market for its goods than back then.

The gold you acquire from campaign victory rewards has been increased since the locks were removed. Note that items, including the old Master weapons, come from end of campaign rewards, which are a different mail entirely and not linked to winning the campaign at all.

And emperorship was arguably easier to get back then because there were more campaigns, meaning more first place people at any given time and more maps to be night capped. It's still stupid easy to get, and groups conspire to trade emps all the time in NA/PC Haderus.

So if anything....these things that you say were weakened because of multifaction play have gotten stronger over time...although for reasons completely unrelated to multifaction play. Your argument doesn't hold water.

I don't see the same thing you see.......but if you say it has gotten stronger and better from then to now with multi faction homing on same camps ect and ultra cheap camp swapping......do we have more servers and a larger population? Why did we have to consolidate servers just to populate two or three now rather than four or five fully populated as we had then?

Proof rests with our servers and in current population. For some, they may like those changes, but its a mere shadow of population of the community prior to the opening up of the flood gates. "I just want to play with my friends" is what started all of it when the mechanism already existed- we now play the end result.

You see what you want to see, not what's actually there.

Players quit because of lag and poor game balance, not multifactioners. Look at their complaints for yourself.

I see....so, my points don't 'hold water' and now I 'see what I want and not what is actually there'. Who could refute such solid logic so well explained and backed up with examples.

You should reread my and Winnie's posts.

I have and in both case see multi faction players who continue to post in support of something that is clear to most of the community isn't good for the game.

I'm a DC only player. Have been since very early 1.6. I don't even PvE with another faction character.

You should try to look at our points objectively instead of continuing to make assumptions.

For example, I question how much of the community really considers multifaction play bad for the game. Where is that perception coming from exactly? Lol

Here is what I see....you started the game December 2016, and the other poster started in October 2014.

I have listened and tried very hard to remain open minded regarding a different opinion, but in order to speak about things prior to your start dates you would need to have been here. You have every right to an opinion and I am glad you are voicing it, but in order to walk you through step by step I would need to make up for several years of play. I cant do that in a forum post.

Let me use your line here as I think it has particular relevance "You should try to look at our (my) points objectively" by reading what I posted. If there are parts of those explanations that don't make sense to you, maybe there are those in your playing 'circle' that could share background on what was actually happening then so you can get a better idea of why I have a different opinion on this issue.

Until then I am glad you have a different opinion, but I simply do not agree with it and as stated the proof is in our population and number of active campaigns we have.

Oh dear, no I've been playing since beta. I only started using the forums in 2014.
#assumptions

See what he said to me? lmfao This guy..

Soul_Demon wrote: »

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

Soul_Demon wrote: »

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

Soul_Demon wrote: »

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

Soul_Demon wrote: »

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

Soul_Demon wrote: »

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

Soul_Demon wrote: »

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

@Soul_Demon Campaign victory rewards, AP, and former emperorship were all next to worthless long before ZOS removed faction locks from campaigns.

Since the locks were removed, our rates of AP gains have been increased, but more valuable goods have been added to AP vendors. Over all, AP has a stronger conversion rate and a stronger market for its goods than back then.

The gold you acquire from campaign victory rewards has been increased since the locks were removed. Note that items, including the old Master weapons, come from end of campaign rewards, which are a different mail entirely and not linked to winning the campaign at all.

And emperorship was arguably easier to get back then because there were more campaigns, meaning more first place people at any given time and more maps to be night capped. It's still stupid easy to get, and groups conspire to trade emps all the time in NA/PC Haderus.

So if anything....these things that you say were weakened because of multifaction play have gotten stronger over time...although for reasons completely unrelated to multifaction play. Your argument doesn't hold water.

I don't see the same thing you see.......but if you say it has gotten stronger and better from then to now with multi faction homing on same camps ect and ultra cheap camp swapping......do we have more servers and a larger population? Why did we have to consolidate servers just to populate two or three now rather than four or five fully populated as we had then?

Proof rests with our servers and in current population. For some, they may like those changes, but its a mere shadow of population of the community prior to the opening up of the flood gates. "I just want to play with my friends" is what started all of it when the mechanism already existed- we now play the end result.

You see what you want to see, not what's actually there.

Players quit because of lag and poor game balance, not multifactioners. Look at their complaints for yourself.

I see....so, my points don't 'hold water' and now I 'see what I want and not what is actually there'. Who could refute such solid logic so well explained and backed up with examples.

You should reread my and Winnie's posts.

I have and in both case see multi faction players who continue to post in support of something that is clear to most of the community isn't good for the game.

I'm a DC only player. Have been since very early 1.6. I don't even PvE with another faction character.

You should try to look at our points objectively instead of continuing to make assumptions.

For example, I question how much of the community really considers multifaction play bad for the game. Where is that perception coming from exactly? Lol

Here is what I see....you started the game December 2016, and the other poster started in October 2014.

I have listened and tried very hard to remain open minded regarding a different opinion, but in order to speak about things prior to your start dates you would need to have been here. You have every right to an opinion and I am glad you are voicing it, but in order to walk you through step by step I would need to make up for several years of play. I cant do that in a forum post.

Let me use your line here as I think it has particular relevance "You should try to look at our (my) points objectively" by reading what I posted. If there are parts of those explanations that don't make sense to you, maybe there are those in your playing 'circle' that could share background on what was actually happening then so you can get a better idea of why I have a different opinion on this issue.

Until then I am glad you have a different opinion, but I simply do not agree with it and as stated the proof is in our population and number of active campaigns we have.

Um what? I have played ESO since early beta and have PvPed extensively in every group scale and play style since spring 2015. I spoke to no time period prior to then.

And population and number of active campaigns are not causally related to multifaction play or faction loyalty. I explained why already.

What happened to that first account from beta and the second one from spring 2015 then? Mine, as all the others I am aware of had to be changed over from the account creation tag to a new one for forum posting that wasn't the @name....it was tied to the start date of the account.
Username NightbladeMechanics Joined December 2016 Visits 35 Last Active 2:08PM Roles No Roles Points 1,376 Platform PC Badges 18

And in fact you keep speaking to a time when the rule set was different regarding multi faction playing, the cost to change campaigns, emp trading that resulted in the passives being dropped, and the ability to home different chars on the same server. Even in this very response you are speaking to populations you were not around for.

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/3698372/#Comment_3698372

I am guessing there is some hidden meaning in posting a link to ""Due to the overwhelming response..., we’ve decided .... Curse to retain its... PvP burst..." from January 17, 2017?

I am guessing neither of you two do, in beta we reported our findings so we had forum accounts that converted over to general forum after......getting pretty clear you both bought second accounts (for reasons) or both lied and were caught. No other explanation- and in both cases not really spokespeople for the community as a whole regarding what is good for the community.

I am sure there is some really, really interesting story to how (reasons) or you sold your computer to traveling gypsies- that will be lie too. This is getting really comical. Winnie, click on your icon and tell me what the date of start says there? About that story of how you just started posting a year after beta....what was that?

Hahahahahahaha what the hell? Who is this kid.

Takllin

Elong wrote: »

Soul_Demon wrote: »

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

Winnamine wrote: »

Soul_Demon wrote: »

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

Soul_Demon wrote: »

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

Soul_Demon wrote: »

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

Soul_Demon wrote: »

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

@Soul_Demon Campaign victory rewards, AP, and former emperorship were all next to worthless long before ZOS removed faction locks from campaigns.

Since the locks were removed, our rates of AP gains have been increased, but more valuable goods have been added to AP vendors. Over all, AP has a stronger conversion rate and a stronger market for its goods than back then.

The gold you acquire from campaign victory rewards has been increased since the locks were removed. Note that items, including the old Master weapons, come from end of campaign rewards, which are a different mail entirely and not linked to winning the campaign at all.

And emperorship was arguably easier to get back then because there were more campaigns, meaning more first place people at any given time and more maps to be night capped. It's still stupid easy to get, and groups conspire to trade emps all the time in NA/PC Haderus.

So if anything....these things that you say were weakened because of multifaction play have gotten stronger over time...although for reasons completely unrelated to multifaction play. Your argument doesn't hold water.

I don't see the same thing you see.......but if you say it has gotten stronger and better from then to now with multi faction homing on same camps ect and ultra cheap camp swapping......do we have more servers and a larger population? Why did we have to consolidate servers just to populate two or three now rather than four or five fully populated as we had then?

Proof rests with our servers and in current population. For some, they may like those changes, but its a mere shadow of population of the community prior to the opening up of the flood gates. "I just want to play with my friends" is what started all of it when the mechanism already existed- we now play the end result.

You see what you want to see, not what's actually there.

Players quit because of lag and poor game balance, not multifactioners. Look at their complaints for yourself.

I see....so, my points don't 'hold water' and now I 'see what I want and not what is actually there'. Who could refute such solid logic so well explained and backed up with examples.

You should reread my and Winnie's posts.

I have and in both case see multi faction players who continue to post in support of something that is clear to most of the community isn't good for the game.

I'm a DC only player. Have been since very early 1.6. I don't even PvE with another faction character.

You should try to look at our points objectively instead of continuing to make assumptions.

For example, I question how much of the community really considers multifaction play bad for the game. Where is that perception coming from exactly? Lol

Here is what I see....you started the game December 2016, and the other poster started in October 2014.

I have listened and tried very hard to remain open minded regarding a different opinion, but in order to speak about things prior to your start dates you would need to have been here. You have every right to an opinion and I am glad you are voicing it, but in order to walk you through step by step I would need to make up for several years of play. I cant do that in a forum post.

Let me use your line here as I think it has particular relevance "You should try to look at our (my) points objectively" by reading what I posted. If there are parts of those explanations that don't make sense to you, maybe there are those in your playing 'circle' that could share background on what was actually happening then so you can get a better idea of why I have a different opinion on this issue.

Until then I am glad you have a different opinion, but I simply do not agree with it and as stated the proof is in our population and number of active campaigns we have.

Oh dear, no I've been playing since beta. I only started using the forums in 2014.
#assumptions

See what he said to me? lmfao This guy..

Soul_Demon wrote: »

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

Soul_Demon wrote: »

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

Soul_Demon wrote: »

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

Soul_Demon wrote: »

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

Soul_Demon wrote: »

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

Soul_Demon wrote: »

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

@Soul_Demon Campaign victory rewards, AP, and former emperorship were all next to worthless long before ZOS removed faction locks from campaigns.

Since the locks were removed, our rates of AP gains have been increased, but more valuable goods have been added to AP vendors. Over all, AP has a stronger conversion rate and a stronger market for its goods than back then.

The gold you acquire from campaign victory rewards has been increased since the locks were removed. Note that items, including the old Master weapons, come from end of campaign rewards, which are a different mail entirely and not linked to winning the campaign at all.

And emperorship was arguably easier to get back then because there were more campaigns, meaning more first place people at any given time and more maps to be night capped. It's still stupid easy to get, and groups conspire to trade emps all the time in NA/PC Haderus.

So if anything....these things that you say were weakened because of multifaction play have gotten stronger over time...although for reasons completely unrelated to multifaction play. Your argument doesn't hold water.

I don't see the same thing you see.......but if you say it has gotten stronger and better from then to now with multi faction homing on same camps ect and ultra cheap camp swapping......do we have more servers and a larger population? Why did we have to consolidate servers just to populate two or three now rather than four or five fully populated as we had then?

Proof rests with our servers and in current population. For some, they may like those changes, but its a mere shadow of population of the community prior to the opening up of the flood gates. "I just want to play with my friends" is what started all of it when the mechanism already existed- we now play the end result.

You see what you want to see, not what's actually there.

Players quit because of lag and poor game balance, not multifactioners. Look at their complaints for yourself.

I see....so, my points don't 'hold water' and now I 'see what I want and not what is actually there'. Who could refute such solid logic so well explained and backed up with examples.

You should reread my and Winnie's posts.

I have and in both case see multi faction players who continue to post in support of something that is clear to most of the community isn't good for the game.

I'm a DC only player. Have been since very early 1.6. I don't even PvE with another faction character.

You should try to look at our points objectively instead of continuing to make assumptions.

For example, I question how much of the community really considers multifaction play bad for the game. Where is that perception coming from exactly? Lol

Here is what I see....you started the game December 2016, and the other poster started in October 2014.

I have listened and tried very hard to remain open minded regarding a different opinion, but in order to speak about things prior to your start dates you would need to have been here. You have every right to an opinion and I am glad you are voicing it, but in order to walk you through step by step I would need to make up for several years of play. I cant do that in a forum post.

Let me use your line here as I think it has particular relevance "You should try to look at our (my) points objectively" by reading what I posted. If there are parts of those explanations that don't make sense to you, maybe there are those in your playing 'circle' that could share background on what was actually happening then so you can get a better idea of why I have a different opinion on this issue.

Until then I am glad you have a different opinion, but I simply do not agree with it and as stated the proof is in our population and number of active campaigns we have.

Um what? I have played ESO since early beta and have PvPed extensively in every group scale and play style since spring 2015. I spoke to no time period prior to then.

And population and number of active campaigns are not causally related to multifaction play or faction loyalty. I explained why already.

What happened to that first account from beta and the second one from spring 2015 then? Mine, as all the others I am aware of had to be changed over from the account creation tag to a new one for forum posting that wasn't the @name....it was tied to the start date of the account.
Username NightbladeMechanics Joined December 2016 Visits 35 Last Active 2:08PM Roles No Roles Points 1,376 Platform PC Badges 18

And in fact you keep speaking to a time when the rule set was different regarding multi faction playing, the cost to change campaigns, emp trading that resulted in the passives being dropped, and the ability to home different chars on the same server. Even in this very response you are speaking to populations you were not around for.

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/3698372/#Comment_3698372

I am guessing there is some hidden meaning in posting a link to ""Due to the overwhelming response..., we’ve decided .... Curse to retain its... PvP burst..." from January 17, 2017?

I am guessing neither of you two do, in beta we reported our findings so we had forum accounts that converted over to general forum after......getting pretty clear you both bought second accounts (for reasons) or both lied and were caught. No other explanation- and in both cases not really spokespeople for the community as a whole regarding what is good for the community.

I am sure there is some really, really interesting story to how (reasons) or you sold your computer to traveling gypsies- that will be lie too. This is getting really comical. Winnie, click on your icon and tell me what the date of start says there? About that story of how you just started posting a year after beta....what was that?

Hahahahahahaha what the hell? Who is this kid.

Yeah... I know tons of people who just never activated their forum accounts.

BooskySG wrote: »

Winnamine wrote: »

BooskySG wrote: »

I keep seeing DiE and VE brought up as examples of X guild getting hate for swapping factions,yada yada muh faction purism claim. That's an amusing, albeit ignorant, claim. DiE got hate for swapping which faction they nightcapped for--the major reason the numerous TF campaigns ended up being red nightcapped daily.Yeah, the infamous string of TF campaigns that EP won that were noncompetitive. Simply put, ruining competition off-hours by stacking the faction that could compete against them--although barely as EP was outnumbered 5+ to 1 during the time period. I could also go into detail about how DiE brought drama over with them, e.g., blatant attempts at poaching members, telling DIE members they couldnt run with friends because their friends were in X guild,DiE starting *** with Crys, etc. To the wholly ignorant,yes, the DiE hate could be seen as hurr durr muh faction purism, but it wasnt.

As for VE, any hate they get in any of faction's zone chats was earned on a personal basis I'm sure and not from their bazillion faction swaps from campaign to campaign and even mid-campaign at times.

Inb4 more conflation of attempts to retain competitiveness in Cyro campaigns with faction purism. Oh wait, no one cares about Cyro objectives or campaign wins anymore and everyone plays every faction. What a shocker lol

Edit: Almost forgot to mention that DiE and Alacrity were having beef at the same time DiE swapped over to EP, so there's yet another layer to that drama fest of a faction swap

It was Venatus, actually, not Alacrity.

And sure, VE and DiE, and subsequently Havoc, had plenty of their own drama going on, but that doesn't negate the hate they got for faction hopping, and they did. They really did.

And like you said, EP was outnumbered when DiE switched, their switch was necessary at the time, it was just ill timed because immediately after, AD collapsed when Venatus left and Alacrity stopped being competitive.

DiE had drama with Venatus in addition to the well-known drama they had with Alacrity at the time? When did Igni Ferroque dissolve anyway? Hell, a certain DiE subset still has some residual dislike going on considering certain Alacrity people's interest in Havoc getting bodied on BDO,etc.

I never denied DiE got hate for swapping factions. I scoffed at the claim that it was because of faction purism. DiE got hate because they swapped to the faction that won the previous campaign, brought loads of drama with them(certain elements of said drama still exist to this day),largely contributed to the half-year reign of EP PvDoor TF cycles,and insulted everyones' intelligence by claiming the swap was purely for "balance". Yeah, a well-known,night-capping crew swapping to the winning faction,while in the middle of major drama with their old faction, was "balance". Please, no one is stupid enough to believe that self-serving,savior narrative. Nothing but love for Moon, but that load of bs was classic. Almost as funny as when VE borrowed it hook,line,and sinker to the same effect.

If DiE gave a *** about balance, they wouldn't have had a full raid stacked at Arrius mine nightly while playing AD, period--fun fights but far from balanced. It's like people don't understand that you can positively effect balance via inaction. Have a full raid while your faction has 70+ to the enemy's 10ish people? Simple, don't contribute to pushing objectives and definitely don't show up at a scroll temple 70v10 or 70v4 and claim "looking for competitive fights". If the DiE swap was solely for balance, DiE would've went DC for TF 1. Inb4 the usual albeit wholly ignorant posturing claim of "but NM".

Edit: Also, even though Luv and Dream led Alacrity was weak, it was still a top 3 AD guild at the time.

DiE had drama with the entire AD faction because they wouldn't cooperate with the faction. If they weren't allowed to direct the whole faction and be the leaders they threw a fit and took their ball to bleakers where they'd try and afk leach Alacrity's d-ticks. They couldn't handle the fact that other guilds/players were more respected than them. Everything I've heard about their time on EP suggests they held the same attitude over there so I can't blame anyone for giving them ***.

I also agree with the bolded part more. A few AD guilds didn't play for that campaign and we lost that one. I can only assume their collective frustration after that grew to the point they decided to make the switch.

At the time of Alacrity being lead by Luvboard I can only think of two other AD guilds being competitive across all timezones. There was nice balance in true gvg fights I think a lot of guilds were fairly equal at that point. One faction just had simply more guilds/players. It was the same issue as when AD dominated not only due to nightcap presence, but having 3, usually more raids running at prime time. I can't recall how many times I fought die, ir, whoever else full raids only to be met immediately follow by one or two of the other raids running at the time. Thus starts the faction stack and "havoc 8man" memes.

[Edit to remove name and shame]

Winnamine

Soul_Demon wrote: »

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

Winnamine wrote: »

Soul_Demon wrote: »

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

Soul_Demon wrote: »

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

Soul_Demon wrote: »

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

Soul_Demon wrote: »

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

@Soul_Demon Campaign victory rewards, AP, and former emperorship were all next to worthless long before ZOS removed faction locks from campaigns.

Since the locks were removed, our rates of AP gains have been increased, but more valuable goods have been added to AP vendors. Over all, AP has a stronger conversion rate and a stronger market for its goods than back then.

The gold you acquire from campaign victory rewards has been increased since the locks were removed. Note that items, including the old Master weapons, come from end of campaign rewards, which are a different mail entirely and not linked to winning the campaign at all.

And emperorship was arguably easier to get back then because there were more campaigns, meaning more first place people at any given time and more maps to be night capped. It's still stupid easy to get, and groups conspire to trade emps all the time in NA/PC Haderus.

So if anything....these things that you say were weakened because of multifaction play have gotten stronger over time...although for reasons completely unrelated to multifaction play. Your argument doesn't hold water.

I don't see the same thing you see.......but if you say it has gotten stronger and better from then to now with multi faction homing on same camps ect and ultra cheap camp swapping......do we have more servers and a larger population? Why did we have to consolidate servers just to populate two or three now rather than four or five fully populated as we had then?

Proof rests with our servers and in current population. For some, they may like those changes, but its a mere shadow of population of the community prior to the opening up of the flood gates. "I just want to play with my friends" is what started all of it when the mechanism already existed- we now play the end result.

You see what you want to see, not what's actually there.

Players quit because of lag and poor game balance, not multifactioners. Look at their complaints for yourself.

I see....so, my points don't 'hold water' and now I 'see what I want and not what is actually there'. Who could refute such solid logic so well explained and backed up with examples.

You should reread my and Winnie's posts.

I have and in both case see multi faction players who continue to post in support of something that is clear to most of the community isn't good for the game.

I'm a DC only player. Have been since very early 1.6. I don't even PvE with another faction character.

You should try to look at our points objectively instead of continuing to make assumptions.

For example, I question how much of the community really considers multifaction play bad for the game. Where is that perception coming from exactly? Lol

Here is what I see....you started the game December 2016, and the other poster started in October 2014.

I have listened and tried very hard to remain open minded regarding a different opinion, but in order to speak about things prior to your start dates you would need to have been here. You have every right to an opinion and I am glad you are voicing it, but in order to walk you through step by step I would need to make up for several years of play. I cant do that in a forum post.

Let me use your line here as I think it has particular relevance "You should try to look at our (my) points objectively" by reading what I posted. If there are parts of those explanations that don't make sense to you, maybe there are those in your playing 'circle' that could share background on what was actually happening then so you can get a better idea of why I have a different opinion on this issue.

Until then I am glad you have a different opinion, but I simply do not agree with it and as stated the proof is in our population and number of active campaigns we have.

Oh dear, no I've been playing since beta. I only started using the forums in 2014.
#assumptions

See what he said to me? lmfao This guy..

Soul_Demon wrote: »

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

Soul_Demon wrote: »

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

Soul_Demon wrote: »

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

Soul_Demon wrote: »

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

Soul_Demon wrote: »

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

Soul_Demon wrote: »

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

@Soul_Demon Campaign victory rewards, AP, and former emperorship were all next to worthless long before ZOS removed faction locks from campaigns.

Since the locks were removed, our rates of AP gains have been increased, but more valuable goods have been added to AP vendors. Over all, AP has a stronger conversion rate and a stronger market for its goods than back then.

The gold you acquire from campaign victory rewards has been increased since the locks were removed. Note that items, including the old Master weapons, come from end of campaign rewards, which are a different mail entirely and not linked to winning the campaign at all.

And emperorship was arguably easier to get back then because there were more campaigns, meaning more first place people at any given time and more maps to be night capped. It's still stupid easy to get, and groups conspire to trade emps all the time in NA/PC Haderus.

So if anything....these things that you say were weakened because of multifaction play have gotten stronger over time...although for reasons completely unrelated to multifaction play. Your argument doesn't hold water.

I don't see the same thing you see.......but if you say it has gotten stronger and better from then to now with multi faction homing on same camps ect and ultra cheap camp swapping......do we have more servers and a larger population? Why did we have to consolidate servers just to populate two or three now rather than four or five fully populated as we had then?

Proof rests with our servers and in current population. For some, they may like those changes, but its a mere shadow of population of the community prior to the opening up of the flood gates. "I just want to play with my friends" is what started all of it when the mechanism already existed- we now play the end result.

You see what you want to see, not what's actually there.

Players quit because of lag and poor game balance, not multifactioners. Look at their complaints for yourself.

I see....so, my points don't 'hold water' and now I 'see what I want and not what is actually there'. Who could refute such solid logic so well explained and backed up with examples.

You should reread my and Winnie's posts.

I have and in both case see multi faction players who continue to post in support of something that is clear to most of the community isn't good for the game.

I'm a DC only player. Have been since very early 1.6. I don't even PvE with another faction character.

You should try to look at our points objectively instead of continuing to make assumptions.

For example, I question how much of the community really considers multifaction play bad for the game. Where is that perception coming from exactly? Lol

Here is what I see....you started the game December 2016, and the other poster started in October 2014.

I have listened and tried very hard to remain open minded regarding a different opinion, but in order to speak about things prior to your start dates you would need to have been here. You have every right to an opinion and I am glad you are voicing it, but in order to walk you through step by step I would need to make up for several years of play. I cant do that in a forum post.

Let me use your line here as I think it has particular relevance "You should try to look at our (my) points objectively" by reading what I posted. If there are parts of those explanations that don't make sense to you, maybe there are those in your playing 'circle' that could share background on what was actually happening then so you can get a better idea of why I have a different opinion on this issue.

Until then I am glad you have a different opinion, but I simply do not agree with it and as stated the proof is in our population and number of active campaigns we have.

Um what? I have played ESO since early beta and have PvPed extensively in every group scale and play style since spring 2015. I spoke to no time period prior to then.

And population and number of active campaigns are not causally related to multifaction play or faction loyalty. I explained why already.

What happened to that first account from beta and the second one from spring 2015 then? Mine, as all the others I am aware of had to be changed over from the account creation tag to a new one for forum posting that wasn't the @name....it was tied to the start date of the account.
Username NightbladeMechanics Joined December 2016 Visits 35 Last Active 2:08PM Roles No Roles Points 1,376 Platform PC Badges 18

And in fact you keep speaking to a time when the rule set was different regarding multi faction playing, the cost to change campaigns, emp trading that resulted in the passives being dropped, and the ability to home different chars on the same server. Even in this very response you are speaking to populations you were not around for.

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/3698372/#Comment_3698372

I am guessing there is some hidden meaning in posting a link to ""Due to the overwhelming response..., we’ve decided .... Curse to retain its... PvP burst..." from January 17, 2017?

I am guessing neither of you two do, in beta we reported our findings so we had forum accounts that converted over to general forum after......getting pretty clear you both bought second accounts (for reasons) or both lied and were caught. No other explanation- and in both cases not really spokespeople for the community as a whole regarding what is good for the community.

I am sure there is some really, really interesting story to how (reasons) or you sold your computer to traveling gypsies- that will be lie too. This is getting really comical. Winnie, click on your icon and tell me what the date of start says there? About that story of how you just started posting a year after beta....what was that?

This is my only account, I just had no interest in the forums until I got really involved in the community, then I started posting. I even had to email ZOS for a new forum invitation bc mine was expired by then, a lot of people did actually.
I'd let this one go before you dig a bigger hole if I were you, but you do you.

Soul_Demon

Winnamine wrote: »

Soul_Demon wrote: »

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

Winnamine wrote: »

Soul_Demon wrote: »

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

Soul_Demon wrote: »

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

Soul_Demon wrote: »

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

Soul_Demon wrote: »

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

@Soul_Demon Campaign victory rewards, AP, and former emperorship were all next to worthless long before ZOS removed faction locks from campaigns.

Since the locks were removed, our rates of AP gains have been increased, but more valuable goods have been added to AP vendors. Over all, AP has a stronger conversion rate and a stronger market for its goods than back then.

The gold you acquire from campaign victory rewards has been increased since the locks were removed. Note that items, including the old Master weapons, come from end of campaign rewards, which are a different mail entirely and not linked to winning the campaign at all.

And emperorship was arguably easier to get back then because there were more campaigns, meaning more first place people at any given time and more maps to be night capped. It's still stupid easy to get, and groups conspire to trade emps all the time in NA/PC Haderus.

So if anything....these things that you say were weakened because of multifaction play have gotten stronger over time...although for reasons completely unrelated to multifaction play. Your argument doesn't hold water.

I don't see the same thing you see.......but if you say it has gotten stronger and better from then to now with multi faction homing on same camps ect and ultra cheap camp swapping......do we have more servers and a larger population? Why did we have to consolidate servers just to populate two or three now rather than four or five fully populated as we had then?

Proof rests with our servers and in current population. For some, they may like those changes, but its a mere shadow of population of the community prior to the opening up of the flood gates. "I just want to play with my friends" is what started all of it when the mechanism already existed- we now play the end result.

You see what you want to see, not what's actually there.

Players quit because of lag and poor game balance, not multifactioners. Look at their complaints for yourself.

I see....so, my points don't 'hold water' and now I 'see what I want and not what is actually there'. Who could refute such solid logic so well explained and backed up with examples.

You should reread my and Winnie's posts.

I have and in both case see multi faction players who continue to post in support of something that is clear to most of the community isn't good for the game.

I'm a DC only player. Have been since very early 1.6. I don't even PvE with another faction character.

You should try to look at our points objectively instead of continuing to make assumptions.

For example, I question how much of the community really considers multifaction play bad for the game. Where is that perception coming from exactly? Lol

Here is what I see....you started the game December 2016, and the other poster started in October 2014.

I have listened and tried very hard to remain open minded regarding a different opinion, but in order to speak about things prior to your start dates you would need to have been here. You have every right to an opinion and I am glad you are voicing it, but in order to walk you through step by step I would need to make up for several years of play. I cant do that in a forum post.

Let me use your line here as I think it has particular relevance "You should try to look at our (my) points objectively" by reading what I posted. If there are parts of those explanations that don't make sense to you, maybe there are those in your playing 'circle' that could share background on what was actually happening then so you can get a better idea of why I have a different opinion on this issue.

Until then I am glad you have a different opinion, but I simply do not agree with it and as stated the proof is in our population and number of active campaigns we have.

Oh dear, no I've been playing since beta. I only started using the forums in 2014.
#assumptions

See what he said to me? lmfao This guy..

Soul_Demon wrote: »

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

Soul_Demon wrote: »

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

Soul_Demon wrote: »

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

Soul_Demon wrote: »

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

Soul_Demon wrote: »

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

Soul_Demon wrote: »

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

@Soul_Demon Campaign victory rewards, AP, and former emperorship were all next to worthless long before ZOS removed faction locks from campaigns.

Since the locks were removed, our rates of AP gains have been increased, but more valuable goods have been added to AP vendors. Over all, AP has a stronger conversion rate and a stronger market for its goods than back then.

The gold you acquire from campaign victory rewards has been increased since the locks were removed. Note that items, including the old Master weapons, come from end of campaign rewards, which are a different mail entirely and not linked to winning the campaign at all.

And emperorship was arguably easier to get back then because there were more campaigns, meaning more first place people at any given time and more maps to be night capped. It's still stupid easy to get, and groups conspire to trade emps all the time in NA/PC Haderus.

So if anything....these things that you say were weakened because of multifaction play have gotten stronger over time...although for reasons completely unrelated to multifaction play. Your argument doesn't hold water.

I don't see the same thing you see.......but if you say it has gotten stronger and better from then to now with multi faction homing on same camps ect and ultra cheap camp swapping......do we have more servers and a larger population? Why did we have to consolidate servers just to populate two or three now rather than four or five fully populated as we had then?

Proof rests with our servers and in current population. For some, they may like those changes, but its a mere shadow of population of the community prior to the opening up of the flood gates. "I just want to play with my friends" is what started all of it when the mechanism already existed- we now play the end result.

You see what you want to see, not what's actually there.

Players quit because of lag and poor game balance, not multifactioners. Look at their complaints for yourself.

I see....so, my points don't 'hold water' and now I 'see what I want and not what is actually there'. Who could refute such solid logic so well explained and backed up with examples.

You should reread my and Winnie's posts.

I have and in both case see multi faction players who continue to post in support of something that is clear to most of the community isn't good for the game.

I'm a DC only player. Have been since very early 1.6. I don't even PvE with another faction character.

You should try to look at our points objectively instead of continuing to make assumptions.

For example, I question how much of the community really considers multifaction play bad for the game. Where is that perception coming from exactly? Lol

Here is what I see....you started the game December 2016, and the other poster started in October 2014.

I have listened and tried very hard to remain open minded regarding a different opinion, but in order to speak about things prior to your start dates you would need to have been here. You have every right to an opinion and I am glad you are voicing it, but in order to walk you through step by step I would need to make up for several years of play. I cant do that in a forum post.

Let me use your line here as I think it has particular relevance "You should try to look at our (my) points objectively" by reading what I posted. If there are parts of those explanations that don't make sense to you, maybe there are those in your playing 'circle' that could share background on what was actually happening then so you can get a better idea of why I have a different opinion on this issue.

Until then I am glad you have a different opinion, but I simply do not agree with it and as stated the proof is in our population and number of active campaigns we have.

Um what? I have played ESO since early beta and have PvPed extensively in every group scale and play style since spring 2015. I spoke to no time period prior to then.

And population and number of active campaigns are not causally related to multifaction play or faction loyalty. I explained why already.

What happened to that first account from beta and the second one from spring 2015 then? Mine, as all the others I am aware of had to be changed over from the account creation tag to a new one for forum posting that wasn't the @name....it was tied to the start date of the account.
Username NightbladeMechanics Joined December 2016 Visits 35 Last Active 2:08PM Roles No Roles Points 1,376 Platform PC Badges 18

And in fact you keep speaking to a time when the rule set was different regarding multi faction playing, the cost to change campaigns, emp trading that resulted in the passives being dropped, and the ability to home different chars on the same server. Even in this very response you are speaking to populations you were not around for.

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/3698372/#Comment_3698372

I am guessing there is some hidden meaning in posting a link to ""Due to the overwhelming response..., we’ve decided .... Curse to retain its... PvP burst..." from January 17, 2017?

I am guessing neither of you two do, in beta we reported our findings so we had forum accounts that converted over to general forum after......getting pretty clear you both bought second accounts (for reasons) or both lied and were caught. No other explanation- and in both cases not really spokespeople for the community as a whole regarding what is good for the community.

I am sure there is some really, really interesting story to how (reasons) or you sold your computer to traveling gypsies- that will be lie too. This is getting really comical. Winnie, click on your icon and tell me what the date of start says there? About that story of how you just started posting a year after beta....what was that?

This is my only account, I just had no interest in the forums until I got really involved in the community, then I started posting. I even had to email ZOS for a new forum invitation bc mine was expired by then, a lot of people did actually.
I'd let this one go before you dig a bigger hole if I were you, but you do you.

I let this go the first post I made.....personally I have read these forums from day one and certainly knew exactly what many posters were from the gates, always have known. But just as in many other cases those same posters always, always need to degenerate posts they don't agree with. Predictably they get snarky and insulting while never really presenting a solid logic or reasoning why they disagree with others- but they never stop with the interesting stories when pressed or held in the least bit accountable. So, don't worry yourself in the least bit about me. But at some point you wanted to explain the views you hold with a bit more detail, feel free to do so- after all that was the original intent of the posting in the first place.

Kova

So happy to see more roleplay on the forums.