I want to kill spys from my own faction!

zuto40

What annoys me about cross faction PvP is when someone plays on an EP character then when they get insulted cause they've been stroking their own massive ego for 5 hours they go get a DC zerg from another campaign to Zerg the whole map, I know you read the forums, you know who you are

NightbladeMechanics

Winnie's right. A good amount of this community's toxicity comes from faction loyalists dehumanizing players on the other factions and turning aggressive against multifaction players, assuming they're all malicious spies and lobbying ZOS to lock down faction switching again.

Exhibit A, this thread.

Winnamine

Soul_Demon wrote: »

Winnamine wrote: »

Soul_Demon wrote: »

Rickter wrote: »

I wish there was a way to "flag" them and an icon or special characters would appear by their name on both nameplates and whenever they spoke in text

Great idea.....personally I feel like 90% of the unsavory activity in zone chat can be attributed to the players who are either multi faction or spies. Simply place an alliance icon next to their names in zone chat for what faction chars they have homed on the server. Could assist the faction loyalist in 'picking through' the multi faction "just playing with buddies" and boosting spy hard idiots who turn zone toxic.

Haha oh dear, I disagree completely. At least on PC/NA, those "faction loyalists" of yours tend to be the loudest, angriest, most intolerant blowhards that zone chat ever sees.
Probably because the kind of people who take a game so seriously that they have a problem with other players playing other sides don't tend to have a lot of perspective/a sense of humor.
****Exception for real RPers, you got your immersion, I get it, that's how you enjoy the game****

I see.....so if I read this correctly what you suggest is that by having the ability to change to a different character at any moment from any faction on the same server, this creates a friendly environment where people are less apt to worry about turning any particular area toxic. I mean just because you have only one faction doesn't mean it makes sense that you would not create a negative environment there because you would then be stuck in it......that is crazy talk.

Yeah, makes perfect sense now that you have laid it out for me....sounds legit to me.

Actually...yes. The people I know who play all 3 factions are some of the nicest, friendliest players in the game. That's why they play multiple factions, they have friends everywhere and want to play with them. If you're playing just to play with friends, here for the social aspect, you don't tend to be a hateful troll in zone chat.

Also, my comments referred to "faction loyalists," not merely players who only play one faction, but the ones who consider that a virtue. For reference, ask anyone on EP about the hate DiE got when they rerolled red, or when VE rerolled to DC, not to mention the hate both guilds got from their old factions for being "traitors." Those guilds rerolled literally just to help balance pvp by moving from the most populated faction to the current least populated faction, and the amount of hate and nastiness they encountered for their trouble was absolutely despicable. And you know what? It's not just rerolls and multifaction players who get that hate. These people love to take it upon themselves to police their faction, and any player or guild who doesn't act or play the game the "right" way, become targets.

I have hair raising examples of all of this, but I'd prefer not to get banned for naming and shaming.

starlizard70ub17_ESO

Khajiit works for who ever provides the most coin, yes. Sees no problem here.


(I have friends from all factions, Sometimes it's fun to see how the other sides play.)

NightbladeMechanics

Winnamine wrote: »

Soul_Demon wrote: »

Winnamine wrote: »

Soul_Demon wrote: »

Rickter wrote: »

I wish there was a way to "flag" them and an icon or special characters would appear by their name on both nameplates and whenever they spoke in text

Great idea.....personally I feel like 90% of the unsavory activity in zone chat can be attributed to the players who are either multi faction or spies. Simply place an alliance icon next to their names in zone chat for what faction chars they have homed on the server. Could assist the faction loyalist in 'picking through' the multi faction "just playing with buddies" and boosting spy hard idiots who turn zone toxic.

Haha oh dear, I disagree completely. At least on PC/NA, those "faction loyalists" of yours tend to be the loudest, angriest, most intolerant blowhards that zone chat ever sees.
Probably because the kind of people who take a game so seriously that they have a problem with other players playing other sides don't tend to have a lot of perspective/a sense of humor.
****Exception for real RPers, you got your immersion, I get it, that's how you enjoy the game****

I see.....so if I read this correctly what you suggest is that by having the ability to change to a different character at any moment from any faction on the same server, this creates a friendly environment where people are less apt to worry about turning any particular area toxic. I mean just because you have only one faction doesn't mean it makes sense that you would not create a negative environment there because you would then be stuck in it......that is crazy talk.

Yeah, makes perfect sense now that you have laid it out for me....sounds legit to me.

These people love to take it upon themselves to police their faction, and any player or guild who doesn't act or play the game the "right" way, become targets.

I have hair raising examples of all of this, but I'd prefer not to get banned for naming and shaming.

DC zone chat at this very moment...



I've seen much worse. Happens all the time.

Soul_Demon

Winnamine wrote: »

Soul_Demon wrote: »

Winnamine wrote: »

Soul_Demon wrote: »

Rickter wrote: »

I wish there was a way to "flag" them and an icon or special characters would appear by their name on both nameplates and whenever they spoke in text

Great idea.....personally I feel like 90% of the unsavory activity in zone chat can be attributed to the players who are either multi faction or spies. Simply place an alliance icon next to their names in zone chat for what faction chars they have homed on the server. Could assist the faction loyalist in 'picking through' the multi faction "just playing with buddies" and boosting spy hard idiots who turn zone toxic.

Haha oh dear, I disagree completely. At least on PC/NA, those "faction loyalists" of yours tend to be the loudest, angriest, most intolerant blowhards that zone chat ever sees.
Probably because the kind of people who take a game so seriously that they have a problem with other players playing other sides don't tend to have a lot of perspective/a sense of humor.
****Exception for real RPers, you got your immersion, I get it, that's how you enjoy the game****

I see.....so if I read this correctly what you suggest is that by having the ability to change to a different character at any moment from any faction on the same server, this creates a friendly environment where people are less apt to worry about turning any particular area toxic. I mean just because you have only one faction doesn't mean it makes sense that you would not create a negative environment there because you would then be stuck in it......that is crazy talk.

Yeah, makes perfect sense now that you have laid it out for me....sounds legit to me.

Actually...yes. The people I know who play all 3 factions are some of the nicest, friendliest players in the game. That's why they play multiple factions, they have friends everywhere and want to play with them. If you're playing just to play with friends, here for the social aspect, you don't tend to be a hateful troll in zone chat.

Also, my comments referred to "faction loyalists," not merely players who only play one faction, but the ones who consider that a virtue. For reference, ask anyone on EP about the hate DiE got when they rerolled red, or when VE rerolled to DC, not to mention the hate both guilds got from their old factions for being "traitors." Those guilds rerolled literally just to help balance pvp by moving from the most populated faction to the current least populated faction, and the amount of hate and nastiness they encountered for their trouble was absolutely despicable. And you know what? It's not just rerolls and multifaction players who get that hate. These people love to take it upon themselves to police their faction, and any player or guild who doesn't act or play the game the "right" way, become targets.

I have hair raising examples of all of this, but I'd prefer not to get banned for naming and shaming.

Hate should never be something people encounter in a game. But, with the way you speak regarding the issue it seems you already have some past encounters in mind and there isn't any way anyone but you can speak to those instances.

I personally think the homing of multi faction chars on the same server created a hostile and pointless environment in Cyro. To be perfectly blunt about it, why would you bother to play in a 3 way war where there are no stakes for winning a particular campaign? There is no stake any player has in a particular faction other than self imposed, and as humans we all know human nature takes over at that point for many. That nature isn't always good.

We can all remember the catchphrase of "but my friends are playing over XXXX and I want to play with them". It simply does not hold any truth to it, otherwise the game would have grown in players and not dropped in overall player base when it was implemented. I see the uptick in zone toxicity and all around poor behaviors as being at the least partially due to the lack of any stakes in an alliance or campaign. Sure, plenty of people behave as they normally would due to the self imposed standards and still have multiple chars in multiple factions- but the larger portion I believe are 'free' now they are not stuck somewhere they contributed to turning toxic.

Winnamine

Soul_Demon wrote: »

Winnamine wrote: »

Soul_Demon wrote: »

Winnamine wrote: »

Soul_Demon wrote: »

Rickter wrote: »

I wish there was a way to "flag" them and an icon or special characters would appear by their name on both nameplates and whenever they spoke in text

Great idea.....personally I feel like 90% of the unsavory activity in zone chat can be attributed to the players who are either multi faction or spies. Simply place an alliance icon next to their names in zone chat for what faction chars they have homed on the server. Could assist the faction loyalist in 'picking through' the multi faction "just playing with buddies" and boosting spy hard idiots who turn zone toxic.

Haha oh dear, I disagree completely. At least on PC/NA, those "faction loyalists" of yours tend to be the loudest, angriest, most intolerant blowhards that zone chat ever sees.
Probably because the kind of people who take a game so seriously that they have a problem with other players playing other sides don't tend to have a lot of perspective/a sense of humor.
****Exception for real RPers, you got your immersion, I get it, that's how you enjoy the game****

I see.....so if I read this correctly what you suggest is that by having the ability to change to a different character at any moment from any faction on the same server, this creates a friendly environment where people are less apt to worry about turning any particular area toxic. I mean just because you have only one faction doesn't mean it makes sense that you would not create a negative environment there because you would then be stuck in it......that is crazy talk.

Yeah, makes perfect sense now that you have laid it out for me....sounds legit to me.

Actually...yes. The people I know who play all 3 factions are some of the nicest, friendliest players in the game. That's why they play multiple factions, they have friends everywhere and want to play with them. If you're playing just to play with friends, here for the social aspect, you don't tend to be a hateful troll in zone chat.

Also, my comments referred to "faction loyalists," not merely players who only play one faction, but the ones who consider that a virtue. For reference, ask anyone on EP about the hate DiE got when they rerolled red, or when VE rerolled to DC, not to mention the hate both guilds got from their old factions for being "traitors." Those guilds rerolled literally just to help balance pvp by moving from the most populated faction to the current least populated faction, and the amount of hate and nastiness they encountered for their trouble was absolutely despicable. And you know what? It's not just rerolls and multifaction players who get that hate. These people love to take it upon themselves to police their faction, and any player or guild who doesn't act or play the game the "right" way, become targets.

I have hair raising examples of all of this, but I'd prefer not to get banned for naming and shaming.

Hate should never be something people encounter in a game. But, with the way you speak regarding the issue it seems you already have some past encounters in mind and there isn't any way anyone but you can speak to those instances.

I personally think the homing of multi faction chars on the same server created a hostile and pointless environment in Cyro. To be perfectly blunt about it, why would you bother to play in a 3 way war where there are no stakes for winning a particular campaign? There is no stake any player has in a particular faction other than self imposed, and as humans we all know human nature takes over at that point for many. That nature isn't always good.

We can all remember the catchphrase of "but my friends are playing over XXXX and I want to play with them". It simply does not hold any truth to it, otherwise the game would have grown in players and not dropped in overall player base when it was implemented. I see the uptick in zone toxicity and all around poor behaviors as being at the least partially due to the lack of any stakes in an alliance or campaign. Sure, plenty of people behave as they normally would due to the self imposed standards and still have multiple chars in multiple factions- but the larger portion I believe are 'free' now they are not stuck somewhere they contributed to turning toxic.

Your theory is that multifaction players can create a toxic environment, then just leave the mess behind by going to another faction, therefore they have no reason not to. I think your logic is flawed there.
1. Everyone can just leave that zone chat behind by going to another campaign. You don't need to swap factions to run away from the toxic environment you created.
2. A very large portion of players in Cyrodiil are multifaction now, meaning that your bad behavior on, for example, AD, can very easily follow you over to, say, DC.
I think allowing players to play wherever they want actually makes the game a far more civil place. Other than the haters who feel the need to yell "Spy!" or "Traitor!" all the time, ofc. Because of how integrated all the faction players have become, your reputation, good or bad, is not limited to your own faction anymore. If you're a toxic trolly jerk, everyone's going to know it, I'd say that's pretty good incentive to behave decently, both to your own faction, and to players from other factions as well.

AhPook_Is_Here

There is no right way to have fun in a video game; gratify yourself in your true primate form.

NightbladeMechanics

Winnie's laying down the law now.

Gilvoth

morchand23 wrote: »

If there gonna spy they should be flagged as traitors. It is war and this is going to happen but there needs to be some punishment for this!! Put a nice little purple star and a bounty on them and see how much fun they have then.I know this would be hard to do without being exploited but damn it would be fun to hunt and kill them.

i agree.
this does need to happen, it would benefit all of us.

BooskySG

I keep seeing DiE and VE brought up as examples of X guild getting hate for swapping factions,yada yada muh faction purism claim. That's an amusing, albeit ignorant, claim. DiE got hate for swapping which faction they nightcapped for--the major reason the numerous TF campaigns ended up being red nightcapped daily.Yeah, the infamous string of TF campaigns that EP won that were noncompetitive. Simply put, ruining competition off-hours by stacking the faction that could compete against them--although barely as EP was outnumbered 5+ to 1 during the time period. I could also go into detail about how DiE brought drama over with them, e.g., blatant attempts at poaching members, telling DIE members they couldnt run with friends because their friends were in X guild,DiE starting *** with Crys, etc. To the wholly ignorant,yes, the DiE hate could be seen as hurr durr muh faction purism, but it wasnt.

As for VE, any hate they get in any of faction's zone chats was earned on a personal basis I'm sure and not from their bazillion faction swaps from campaign to campaign and even mid-campaign at times.

Inb4 more conflation of attempts to retain competitiveness in Cyro campaigns with faction purism. Oh wait, no one cares about Cyro objectives or campaign wins anymore and everyone plays every faction. What a shocker lol

Edit: Almost forgot to mention that DiE and Alacrity were having beef at the same time DiE swapped over to EP, so there's yet another layer to that drama fest of a faction swap

Ghostbane

Take your patriotic pride and shove it up your arse.

#hereToPlay

Soul_Demon

Winnamine wrote: »

Soul_Demon wrote: »

Winnamine wrote: »

Soul_Demon wrote: »

Winnamine wrote: »

Soul_Demon wrote: »

Rickter wrote: »

I wish there was a way to "flag" them and an icon or special characters would appear by their name on both nameplates and whenever they spoke in text

Great idea.....personally I feel like 90% of the unsavory activity in zone chat can be attributed to the players who are either multi faction or spies. Simply place an alliance icon next to their names in zone chat for what faction chars they have homed on the server. Could assist the faction loyalist in 'picking through' the multi faction "just playing with buddies" and boosting spy hard idiots who turn zone toxic.

Haha oh dear, I disagree completely. At least on PC/NA, those "faction loyalists" of yours tend to be the loudest, angriest, most intolerant blowhards that zone chat ever sees.
Probably because the kind of people who take a game so seriously that they have a problem with other players playing other sides don't tend to have a lot of perspective/a sense of humor.
****Exception for real RPers, you got your immersion, I get it, that's how you enjoy the game****

I see.....so if I read this correctly what you suggest is that by having the ability to change to a different character at any moment from any faction on the same server, this creates a friendly environment where people are less apt to worry about turning any particular area toxic. I mean just because you have only one faction doesn't mean it makes sense that you would not create a negative environment there because you would then be stuck in it......that is crazy talk.

Yeah, makes perfect sense now that you have laid it out for me....sounds legit to me.

Actually...yes. The people I know who play all 3 factions are some of the nicest, friendliest players in the game. That's why they play multiple factions, they have friends everywhere and want to play with them. If you're playing just to play with friends, here for the social aspect, you don't tend to be a hateful troll in zone chat.

Also, my comments referred to "faction loyalists," not merely players who only play one faction, but the ones who consider that a virtue. For reference, ask anyone on EP about the hate DiE got when they rerolled red, or when VE rerolled to DC, not to mention the hate both guilds got from their old factions for being "traitors." Those guilds rerolled literally just to help balance pvp by moving from the most populated faction to the current least populated faction, and the amount of hate and nastiness they encountered for their trouble was absolutely despicable. And you know what? It's not just rerolls and multifaction players who get that hate. These people love to take it upon themselves to police their faction, and any player or guild who doesn't act or play the game the "right" way, become targets.

I have hair raising examples of all of this, but I'd prefer not to get banned for naming and shaming.

Hate should never be something people encounter in a game. But, with the way you speak regarding the issue it seems you already have some past encounters in mind and there isn't any way anyone but you can speak to those instances.

I personally think the homing of multi faction chars on the same server created a hostile and pointless environment in Cyro. To be perfectly blunt about it, why would you bother to play in a 3 way war where there are no stakes for winning a particular campaign? There is no stake any player has in a particular faction other than self imposed, and as humans we all know human nature takes over at that point for many. That nature isn't always good.

We can all remember the catchphrase of "but my friends are playing over XXXX and I want to play with them". It simply does not hold any truth to it, otherwise the game would have grown in players and not dropped in overall player base when it was implemented. I see the uptick in zone toxicity and all around poor behaviors as being at the least partially due to the lack of any stakes in an alliance or campaign. Sure, plenty of people behave as they normally would due to the self imposed standards and still have multiple chars in multiple factions- but the larger portion I believe are 'free' now they are not stuck somewhere they contributed to turning toxic.

Your theory is that multifaction players can create a toxic environment, then just leave the mess behind by going to another faction, therefore they have no reason not to. I think your logic is flawed there.
1. Everyone can just leave that zone chat behind by going to another campaign. You don't need to swap factions to run away from the toxic environment you created.
2. A very large portion of players in Cyrodiil are multifaction now, meaning that your bad behavior on, for example, AD, can very easily follow you over to, say, DC.
I think allowing players to play wherever they want actually makes the game a far more civil place. Other than the haters who feel the need to yell "Spy!" or "Traitor!" all the time, ofc. Because of how integrated all the faction players have become, your reputation, good or bad, is not limited to your own faction anymore. If you're a toxic trolly jerk, everyone's going to know it, I'd say that's pretty good incentive to behave decently, both to your own faction, and to players from other factions as well.

While I can appreciate hearing the reasoning from someone who feels differently, I do not agree with the stance at all. The concept of a game where there is a way to win in a three way war is disregarded the moment you make that mean nothing.

Winning campaigns, in game rewards like alliance ranks, Emperorship and game currency like AP were all good for the game as long as they had tangible meaning in the game for how one got each of them. With the introduction of the faction swapping and multi factioning each one slowly lost value due to the frivolity associated with mechanics of multi factioning that could circumvent the way they are achieved. First to die was emperorship with swapping out servers being so easy- behind that they simply killed off the former emp passives because there were those who abused the system turning something that was intended to be a pinnacle achievement into an achievement that was taken from all players, not just the ones who did not have any 'code' they played by. Reference made to my previous statement about human nature, its not often good if no clear line is set for behaviors.

The removal of previous rule sets that prevented chars from being homed on the same servers from different alliances and focus being shifted to allow easier movement to servers has now started to deteriorate all other game functions in cyro that will continue to reduce the quality of players we have as well. Ultimately this will result in each of the other design features that were clearly meant to protect the longevity of the community and game be simply removed as well. We are seeing the next in line start to loose meaning and are only in a holding pattern waiting till AP goes the way of former emp passive by simply being removed. Each one will slowly go until ESO is a first person shooter without rank, leaderboards, long term communities, faction loyalties or campaigns to win and begins the transition into an expensive FPS for the PC. Players who played a week become the 'experienced' and all others started yesterday. The community shift is to volume of new arrivals and focus is no longer in extension of those present by protecting the game itself, its become a modification of the systems into 'easy mode' and cheats, spies and exploits are the norm, not the exception any longer.

And as far as the topic itself....yes, being able to leave a place that you have revealed yourself to have low standards or a miserable human being trolling incessantly in a zone chat or cheating by your peers breeds more players doing the same thing until its normalized in the community. Click to change char, stay on same server but go play in DC or AD or EP- rinse repeat. No consequence and no repercussions for your actions but now it takes longer and people behave worse until they run out of factions to do so in...then they change servers because its easy now and start the process over.

NightbladeMechanics

@Soul_Demon Campaign victory rewards, AP, and former emperorship were all next to worthless long before ZOS removed faction locks from campaigns.

Since the locks were removed, our rates of AP gains have been increased, but more valuable goods have been added to AP vendors. Over all, AP has a stronger conversion rate and a stronger market for its goods than back then.

The gold you acquire from campaign victory rewards has been increased since the locks were removed. Note that items, including the old Master weapons, come from end of campaign rewards, which are a different mail entirely and not linked to winning the campaign at all.

And emperorship was arguably easier to get back then because there were more campaigns, meaning more first place people at any given time and more maps to be night capped. It's still stupid easy to get, and groups conspire to trade emps all the time in NA/PC Haderus.

So if anything....these things that you say were weakened because of multifaction play have gotten stronger over time...although for reasons completely unrelated to multifaction play. Your argument doesn't hold water.

Soul_Demon

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

@Soul_Demon Campaign victory rewards, AP, and former emperorship were all next to worthless long before ZOS removed faction locks from campaigns.

Since the locks were removed, our rates of AP gains have been increased, but more valuable goods have been added to AP vendors. Over all, AP has a stronger conversion rate and a stronger market for its goods than back then.

The gold you acquire from campaign victory rewards has been increased since the locks were removed. Note that items, including the old Master weapons, come from end of campaign rewards, which are a different mail entirely and not linked to winning the campaign at all.

And emperorship was arguably easier to get back then because there were more campaigns, meaning more first place people at any given time and more maps to be night capped. It's still stupid easy to get, and groups conspire to trade emps all the time in NA/PC Haderus.

So if anything....these things that you say were weakened because of multifaction play have gotten stronger over time...although for reasons completely unrelated to multifaction play. Your argument doesn't hold water.

I don't see the same thing you see.......but if you say it has gotten stronger and better from then to now with multi faction homing on same camps ect and ultra cheap camp swapping......do we have more servers and a larger population? Why did we have to consolidate servers just to populate two or three now rather than four or five fully populated as we had then?

Proof rests with our servers and in current population. For some, they may like those changes, but its a mere shadow of population of the community prior to the opening up of the flood gates. "I just want to play with my friends" is what started all of it when the mechanism already existed- we now play the end result.

Master_Kas

Would love to see this happen, but only if the "spy" can kill his allies aswell.

NightbladeMechanics

Soul_Demon wrote: »

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

@Soul_Demon Campaign victory rewards, AP, and former emperorship were all next to worthless long before ZOS removed faction locks from campaigns.

Since the locks were removed, our rates of AP gains have been increased, but more valuable goods have been added to AP vendors. Over all, AP has a stronger conversion rate and a stronger market for its goods than back then.

The gold you acquire from campaign victory rewards has been increased since the locks were removed. Note that items, including the old Master weapons, come from end of campaign rewards, which are a different mail entirely and not linked to winning the campaign at all.

And emperorship was arguably easier to get back then because there were more campaigns, meaning more first place people at any given time and more maps to be night capped. It's still stupid easy to get, and groups conspire to trade emps all the time in NA/PC Haderus.

So if anything....these things that you say were weakened because of multifaction play have gotten stronger over time...although for reasons completely unrelated to multifaction play. Your argument doesn't hold water.

I don't see the same thing you see.......but if you say it has gotten stronger and better from then to now with multi faction homing on same camps ect and ultra cheap camp swapping......do we have more servers and a larger population? Why did we have to consolidate servers just to populate two or three now rather than four or five fully populated as we had then?

Proof rests with our servers and in current population. For some, they may like those changes, but its a mere shadow of population of the community prior to the opening up of the flood gates. "I just want to play with my friends" is what started all of it when the mechanism already existed- we now play the end result.

You see what you want to see, not what's actually there.

Players quit because of lag and poor game balance, not multifactioners. Look at their complaints for yourself.

Soul_Demon

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

Soul_Demon wrote: »

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

@Soul_Demon Campaign victory rewards, AP, and former emperorship were all next to worthless long before ZOS removed faction locks from campaigns.

Since the locks were removed, our rates of AP gains have been increased, but more valuable goods have been added to AP vendors. Over all, AP has a stronger conversion rate and a stronger market for its goods than back then.

The gold you acquire from campaign victory rewards has been increased since the locks were removed. Note that items, including the old Master weapons, come from end of campaign rewards, which are a different mail entirely and not linked to winning the campaign at all.

And emperorship was arguably easier to get back then because there were more campaigns, meaning more first place people at any given time and more maps to be night capped. It's still stupid easy to get, and groups conspire to trade emps all the time in NA/PC Haderus.

So if anything....these things that you say were weakened because of multifaction play have gotten stronger over time...although for reasons completely unrelated to multifaction play. Your argument doesn't hold water.

I don't see the same thing you see.......but if you say it has gotten stronger and better from then to now with multi faction homing on same camps ect and ultra cheap camp swapping......do we have more servers and a larger population? Why did we have to consolidate servers just to populate two or three now rather than four or five fully populated as we had then?

Proof rests with our servers and in current population. For some, they may like those changes, but its a mere shadow of population of the community prior to the opening up of the flood gates. "I just want to play with my friends" is what started all of it when the mechanism already existed- we now play the end result.

You see what you want to see, not what's actually there.

Players quit because of lag and poor game balance, not multifactioners. Look at their complaints for yourself.

I see....so, my points don't 'hold water' and now I 'see what I want and not what is actually there'. Who could refute such solid logic so well explained and backed up with examples.

Damianos

Aeko wrote: »

Kartalin wrote: »

As long as you keep in mind the difference between spies and multifaction players.

There isn't any difference! There is the good and the evil! All spies must be hanged, a suitable crime for treason.
/s

You can use my guillotine.

NightbladeMechanics

Soul_Demon wrote: »

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

Soul_Demon wrote: »

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

@Soul_Demon Campaign victory rewards, AP, and former emperorship were all next to worthless long before ZOS removed faction locks from campaigns.

Since the locks were removed, our rates of AP gains have been increased, but more valuable goods have been added to AP vendors. Over all, AP has a stronger conversion rate and a stronger market for its goods than back then.

The gold you acquire from campaign victory rewards has been increased since the locks were removed. Note that items, including the old Master weapons, come from end of campaign rewards, which are a different mail entirely and not linked to winning the campaign at all.

And emperorship was arguably easier to get back then because there were more campaigns, meaning more first place people at any given time and more maps to be night capped. It's still stupid easy to get, and groups conspire to trade emps all the time in NA/PC Haderus.

So if anything....these things that you say were weakened because of multifaction play have gotten stronger over time...although for reasons completely unrelated to multifaction play. Your argument doesn't hold water.

I don't see the same thing you see.......but if you say it has gotten stronger and better from then to now with multi faction homing on same camps ect and ultra cheap camp swapping......do we have more servers and a larger population? Why did we have to consolidate servers just to populate two or three now rather than four or five fully populated as we had then?

Proof rests with our servers and in current population. For some, they may like those changes, but its a mere shadow of population of the community prior to the opening up of the flood gates. "I just want to play with my friends" is what started all of it when the mechanism already existed- we now play the end result.

You see what you want to see, not what's actually there.

Players quit because of lag and poor game balance, not multifactioners. Look at their complaints for yourself.

I see....so, my points don't 'hold water' and now I 'see what I want and not what is actually there'. Who could refute such solid logic so well explained and backed up with examples.

You should reread my and Winnie's posts.

Zinaroth

morchand23 wrote: »

If there gonna spy they should be flagged as traitors. It is war and this is going to happen but there needs to be some punishment for this!! Put a nice little purple star and a bounty on them and see how much fun they have then.I know this would be hard to do without being exploited but damn it would be fun to hunt and kill them.

How do you propose the system determines who is a spy?

Just seems like wishful thinking to me unless you actually have a concrete suggestion.

Soul_Demon

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

Soul_Demon wrote: »

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

Soul_Demon wrote: »

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

@Soul_Demon Campaign victory rewards, AP, and former emperorship were all next to worthless long before ZOS removed faction locks from campaigns.

Since the locks were removed, our rates of AP gains have been increased, but more valuable goods have been added to AP vendors. Over all, AP has a stronger conversion rate and a stronger market for its goods than back then.

The gold you acquire from campaign victory rewards has been increased since the locks were removed. Note that items, including the old Master weapons, come from end of campaign rewards, which are a different mail entirely and not linked to winning the campaign at all.

And emperorship was arguably easier to get back then because there were more campaigns, meaning more first place people at any given time and more maps to be night capped. It's still stupid easy to get, and groups conspire to trade emps all the time in NA/PC Haderus.

So if anything....these things that you say were weakened because of multifaction play have gotten stronger over time...although for reasons completely unrelated to multifaction play. Your argument doesn't hold water.

I don't see the same thing you see.......but if you say it has gotten stronger and better from then to now with multi faction homing on same camps ect and ultra cheap camp swapping......do we have more servers and a larger population? Why did we have to consolidate servers just to populate two or three now rather than four or five fully populated as we had then?

Proof rests with our servers and in current population. For some, they may like those changes, but its a mere shadow of population of the community prior to the opening up of the flood gates. "I just want to play with my friends" is what started all of it when the mechanism already existed- we now play the end result.

You see what you want to see, not what's actually there.

Players quit because of lag and poor game balance, not multifactioners. Look at their complaints for yourself.

I see....so, my points don't 'hold water' and now I 'see what I want and not what is actually there'. Who could refute such solid logic so well explained and backed up with examples.

You should reread my and Winnie's posts.

I have and in both case see multi faction players who continue to post in support of something that is clear to most of the community isn't good for the game.

NightbladeMechanics

Soul_Demon wrote: »

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

Soul_Demon wrote: »

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

Soul_Demon wrote: »

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

@Soul_Demon Campaign victory rewards, AP, and former emperorship were all next to worthless long before ZOS removed faction locks from campaigns.

Since the locks were removed, our rates of AP gains have been increased, but more valuable goods have been added to AP vendors. Over all, AP has a stronger conversion rate and a stronger market for its goods than back then.

The gold you acquire from campaign victory rewards has been increased since the locks were removed. Note that items, including the old Master weapons, come from end of campaign rewards, which are a different mail entirely and not linked to winning the campaign at all.

And emperorship was arguably easier to get back then because there were more campaigns, meaning more first place people at any given time and more maps to be night capped. It's still stupid easy to get, and groups conspire to trade emps all the time in NA/PC Haderus.

So if anything....these things that you say were weakened because of multifaction play have gotten stronger over time...although for reasons completely unrelated to multifaction play. Your argument doesn't hold water.

I don't see the same thing you see.......but if you say it has gotten stronger and better from then to now with multi faction homing on same camps ect and ultra cheap camp swapping......do we have more servers and a larger population? Why did we have to consolidate servers just to populate two or three now rather than four or five fully populated as we had then?

Proof rests with our servers and in current population. For some, they may like those changes, but its a mere shadow of population of the community prior to the opening up of the flood gates. "I just want to play with my friends" is what started all of it when the mechanism already existed- we now play the end result.

You see what you want to see, not what's actually there.

Players quit because of lag and poor game balance, not multifactioners. Look at their complaints for yourself.

I see....so, my points don't 'hold water' and now I 'see what I want and not what is actually there'. Who could refute such solid logic so well explained and backed up with examples.

You should reread my and Winnie's posts.

I have and in both case see multi faction players who continue to post in support of something that is clear to most of the community isn't good for the game.

I'm a DC only player. Have been since very early 1.6. I don't even PvE with another faction character.

You should try to look at our points objectively instead of continuing to make assumptions.

For example, I question how much of the community really considers multifaction play bad for the game. Where is that perception coming from exactly? Lol

Soul_Demon

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

Soul_Demon wrote: »

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

Soul_Demon wrote: »

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

Soul_Demon wrote: »

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

@Soul_Demon Campaign victory rewards, AP, and former emperorship were all next to worthless long before ZOS removed faction locks from campaigns.

Since the locks were removed, our rates of AP gains have been increased, but more valuable goods have been added to AP vendors. Over all, AP has a stronger conversion rate and a stronger market for its goods than back then.

The gold you acquire from campaign victory rewards has been increased since the locks were removed. Note that items, including the old Master weapons, come from end of campaign rewards, which are a different mail entirely and not linked to winning the campaign at all.

And emperorship was arguably easier to get back then because there were more campaigns, meaning more first place people at any given time and more maps to be night capped. It's still stupid easy to get, and groups conspire to trade emps all the time in NA/PC Haderus.

So if anything....these things that you say were weakened because of multifaction play have gotten stronger over time...although for reasons completely unrelated to multifaction play. Your argument doesn't hold water.

I don't see the same thing you see.......but if you say it has gotten stronger and better from then to now with multi faction homing on same camps ect and ultra cheap camp swapping......do we have more servers and a larger population? Why did we have to consolidate servers just to populate two or three now rather than four or five fully populated as we had then?

Proof rests with our servers and in current population. For some, they may like those changes, but its a mere shadow of population of the community prior to the opening up of the flood gates. "I just want to play with my friends" is what started all of it when the mechanism already existed- we now play the end result.

You see what you want to see, not what's actually there.

Players quit because of lag and poor game balance, not multifactioners. Look at their complaints for yourself.

I see....so, my points don't 'hold water' and now I 'see what I want and not what is actually there'. Who could refute such solid logic so well explained and backed up with examples.

You should reread my and Winnie's posts.

I have and in both case see multi faction players who continue to post in support of something that is clear to most of the community isn't good for the game.

I'm a DC only player. Have been since very early 1.6. I don't even PvE with another faction character.

You should try to look at our points objectively instead of continuing to make assumptions.

For example, I question how much of the community really considers multifaction play bad for the game. Where is that perception coming from exactly? Lol

Here is what I see....you started the game December 2016, and the other poster started in October 2014.

I have listened and tried very hard to remain open minded regarding a different opinion, but in order to speak about things prior to your start dates you would need to have been here. You have every right to an opinion and I am glad you are voicing it, but in order to walk you through step by step I would need to make up for several years of play. I cant do that in a forum post.

Let me use your line here as I think it has particular relevance "You should try to look at our (my) points objectively" by reading what I posted. If there are parts of those explanations that don't make sense to you, maybe there are those in your playing 'circle' that could share background on what was actually happening then so you can get a better idea of why I have a different opinion on this issue.

Until then I am glad you have a different opinion, but I simply do not agree with it and as stated the proof is in our population and number of active campaigns we have.

NightbladeMechanics

Soul_Demon wrote: »

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

Soul_Demon wrote: »

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

Soul_Demon wrote: »

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

Soul_Demon wrote: »

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

@Soul_Demon Campaign victory rewards, AP, and former emperorship were all next to worthless long before ZOS removed faction locks from campaigns.

Since the locks were removed, our rates of AP gains have been increased, but more valuable goods have been added to AP vendors. Over all, AP has a stronger conversion rate and a stronger market for its goods than back then.

The gold you acquire from campaign victory rewards has been increased since the locks were removed. Note that items, including the old Master weapons, come from end of campaign rewards, which are a different mail entirely and not linked to winning the campaign at all.

And emperorship was arguably easier to get back then because there were more campaigns, meaning more first place people at any given time and more maps to be night capped. It's still stupid easy to get, and groups conspire to trade emps all the time in NA/PC Haderus.

So if anything....these things that you say were weakened because of multifaction play have gotten stronger over time...although for reasons completely unrelated to multifaction play. Your argument doesn't hold water.

I don't see the same thing you see.......but if you say it has gotten stronger and better from then to now with multi faction homing on same camps ect and ultra cheap camp swapping......do we have more servers and a larger population? Why did we have to consolidate servers just to populate two or three now rather than four or five fully populated as we had then?

Proof rests with our servers and in current population. For some, they may like those changes, but its a mere shadow of population of the community prior to the opening up of the flood gates. "I just want to play with my friends" is what started all of it when the mechanism already existed- we now play the end result.

You see what you want to see, not what's actually there.

Players quit because of lag and poor game balance, not multifactioners. Look at their complaints for yourself.

I see....so, my points don't 'hold water' and now I 'see what I want and not what is actually there'. Who could refute such solid logic so well explained and backed up with examples.

You should reread my and Winnie's posts.

I have and in both case see multi faction players who continue to post in support of something that is clear to most of the community isn't good for the game.

I'm a DC only player. Have been since very early 1.6. I don't even PvE with another faction character.

You should try to look at our points objectively instead of continuing to make assumptions.

For example, I question how much of the community really considers multifaction play bad for the game. Where is that perception coming from exactly? Lol

Here is what I see....you started the game December 2016, and the other poster started in October 2014.

I have listened and tried very hard to remain open minded regarding a different opinion, but in order to speak about things prior to your start dates you would need to have been here. You have every right to an opinion and I am glad you are voicing it, but in order to walk you through step by step I would need to make up for several years of play. I cant do that in a forum post.

Let me use your line here as I think it has particular relevance "You should try to look at our (my) points objectively" by reading what I posted. If there are parts of those explanations that don't make sense to you, maybe there are those in your playing 'circle' that could share background on what was actually happening then so you can get a better idea of why I have a different opinion on this issue.

Until then I am glad you have a different opinion, but I simply do not agree with it and as stated the proof is in our population and number of active campaigns we have.

Um what? I have played ESO since early beta and have PvPed extensively in every group scale and play style since spring 2015. I spoke to no time period prior to then.

And population and number of active campaigns are not causally related to multifaction play or faction loyalty. I explained why already.

Soul_Demon

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

Soul_Demon wrote: »

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

Soul_Demon wrote: »

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

Soul_Demon wrote: »

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

Soul_Demon wrote: »

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

@Soul_Demon Campaign victory rewards, AP, and former emperorship were all next to worthless long before ZOS removed faction locks from campaigns.

Since the locks were removed, our rates of AP gains have been increased, but more valuable goods have been added to AP vendors. Over all, AP has a stronger conversion rate and a stronger market for its goods than back then.

The gold you acquire from campaign victory rewards has been increased since the locks were removed. Note that items, including the old Master weapons, come from end of campaign rewards, which are a different mail entirely and not linked to winning the campaign at all.

And emperorship was arguably easier to get back then because there were more campaigns, meaning more first place people at any given time and more maps to be night capped. It's still stupid easy to get, and groups conspire to trade emps all the time in NA/PC Haderus.

So if anything....these things that you say were weakened because of multifaction play have gotten stronger over time...although for reasons completely unrelated to multifaction play. Your argument doesn't hold water.

I don't see the same thing you see.......but if you say it has gotten stronger and better from then to now with multi faction homing on same camps ect and ultra cheap camp swapping......do we have more servers and a larger population? Why did we have to consolidate servers just to populate two or three now rather than four or five fully populated as we had then?

Proof rests with our servers and in current population. For some, they may like those changes, but its a mere shadow of population of the community prior to the opening up of the flood gates. "I just want to play with my friends" is what started all of it when the mechanism already existed- we now play the end result.

You see what you want to see, not what's actually there.

Players quit because of lag and poor game balance, not multifactioners. Look at their complaints for yourself.

I see....so, my points don't 'hold water' and now I 'see what I want and not what is actually there'. Who could refute such solid logic so well explained and backed up with examples.

You should reread my and Winnie's posts.

I have and in both case see multi faction players who continue to post in support of something that is clear to most of the community isn't good for the game.

I'm a DC only player. Have been since very early 1.6. I don't even PvE with another faction character.

You should try to look at our points objectively instead of continuing to make assumptions.

For example, I question how much of the community really considers multifaction play bad for the game. Where is that perception coming from exactly? Lol

Here is what I see....you started the game December 2016, and the other poster started in October 2014.

I have listened and tried very hard to remain open minded regarding a different opinion, but in order to speak about things prior to your start dates you would need to have been here. You have every right to an opinion and I am glad you are voicing it, but in order to walk you through step by step I would need to make up for several years of play. I cant do that in a forum post.

Let me use your line here as I think it has particular relevance "You should try to look at our (my) points objectively" by reading what I posted. If there are parts of those explanations that don't make sense to you, maybe there are those in your playing 'circle' that could share background on what was actually happening then so you can get a better idea of why I have a different opinion on this issue.

Until then I am glad you have a different opinion, but I simply do not agree with it and as stated the proof is in our population and number of active campaigns we have.

Um what? I have played ESO since early beta and have PvPed extensively in every group scale and play style since spring 2015. I spoke to no time period prior to then.

And population and number of active campaigns are not causally related to multifaction play or faction loyalty. I explained why already.

What happened to that first account from beta and the second one from spring 2015 then? Mine, as all the others I am aware of had to be changed over from the account creation tag to a new one for forum posting that wasn't the @name....it was tied to the start date of the account.
Username NightbladeMechanics Joined December 2016 Visits 35 Last Active 2:08PM Roles No Roles Points 1,376 Platform PC Badges 18

And in fact you keep speaking to a time when the rule set was different regarding multi faction playing, the cost to change campaigns, emp trading that resulted in the passives being dropped, and the ability to home different chars on the same server. Even in this very response you are speaking to populations you were not around for.

NightbladeMechanics

Soul_Demon wrote: »

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

Soul_Demon wrote: »

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

Soul_Demon wrote: »

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

Soul_Demon wrote: »

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

Soul_Demon wrote: »

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

@Soul_Demon Campaign victory rewards, AP, and former emperorship were all next to worthless long before ZOS removed faction locks from campaigns.

Since the locks were removed, our rates of AP gains have been increased, but more valuable goods have been added to AP vendors. Over all, AP has a stronger conversion rate and a stronger market for its goods than back then.

The gold you acquire from campaign victory rewards has been increased since the locks were removed. Note that items, including the old Master weapons, come from end of campaign rewards, which are a different mail entirely and not linked to winning the campaign at all.

And emperorship was arguably easier to get back then because there were more campaigns, meaning more first place people at any given time and more maps to be night capped. It's still stupid easy to get, and groups conspire to trade emps all the time in NA/PC Haderus.

So if anything....these things that you say were weakened because of multifaction play have gotten stronger over time...although for reasons completely unrelated to multifaction play. Your argument doesn't hold water.

I don't see the same thing you see.......but if you say it has gotten stronger and better from then to now with multi faction homing on same camps ect and ultra cheap camp swapping......do we have more servers and a larger population? Why did we have to consolidate servers just to populate two or three now rather than four or five fully populated as we had then?

Proof rests with our servers and in current population. For some, they may like those changes, but its a mere shadow of population of the community prior to the opening up of the flood gates. "I just want to play with my friends" is what started all of it when the mechanism already existed- we now play the end result.

You see what you want to see, not what's actually there.

Players quit because of lag and poor game balance, not multifactioners. Look at their complaints for yourself.

I see....so, my points don't 'hold water' and now I 'see what I want and not what is actually there'. Who could refute such solid logic so well explained and backed up with examples.

You should reread my and Winnie's posts.

I have and in both case see multi faction players who continue to post in support of something that is clear to most of the community isn't good for the game.

I'm a DC only player. Have been since very early 1.6. I don't even PvE with another faction character.

You should try to look at our points objectively instead of continuing to make assumptions.

For example, I question how much of the community really considers multifaction play bad for the game. Where is that perception coming from exactly? Lol

Here is what I see....you started the game December 2016, and the other poster started in October 2014.

I have listened and tried very hard to remain open minded regarding a different opinion, but in order to speak about things prior to your start dates you would need to have been here. You have every right to an opinion and I am glad you are voicing it, but in order to walk you through step by step I would need to make up for several years of play. I cant do that in a forum post.

Let me use your line here as I think it has particular relevance "You should try to look at our (my) points objectively" by reading what I posted. If there are parts of those explanations that don't make sense to you, maybe there are those in your playing 'circle' that could share background on what was actually happening then so you can get a better idea of why I have a different opinion on this issue.

Until then I am glad you have a different opinion, but I simply do not agree with it and as stated the proof is in our population and number of active campaigns we have.

Um what? I have played ESO since early beta and have PvPed extensively in every group scale and play style since spring 2015. I spoke to no time period prior to then.

And population and number of active campaigns are not causally related to multifaction play or faction loyalty. I explained why already.

What happened to that first account from beta and the second one from spring 2015 then? Mine, as all the others I am aware of had to be changed over from the account creation tag to a new one for forum posting that wasn't the @name....it was tied to the start date of the account.
Username NightbladeMechanics Joined December 2016 Visits 35 Last Active 2:08PM Roles No Roles Points 1,376 Platform PC Badges 18

And in fact you keep speaking to a time when the rule set was different regarding multi faction playing, the cost to change campaigns, emp trading that resulted in the passives being dropped, and the ability to home different chars on the same server. Even in this very response you are speaking to populations you were not around for.

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/3698372/#Comment_3698372

Soul_Demon

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

Soul_Demon wrote: »

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

Soul_Demon wrote: »

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

Soul_Demon wrote: »

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

Soul_Demon wrote: »

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

Soul_Demon wrote: »

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

@Soul_Demon Campaign victory rewards, AP, and former emperorship were all next to worthless long before ZOS removed faction locks from campaigns.

Since the locks were removed, our rates of AP gains have been increased, but more valuable goods have been added to AP vendors. Over all, AP has a stronger conversion rate and a stronger market for its goods than back then.

The gold you acquire from campaign victory rewards has been increased since the locks were removed. Note that items, including the old Master weapons, come from end of campaign rewards, which are a different mail entirely and not linked to winning the campaign at all.

And emperorship was arguably easier to get back then because there were more campaigns, meaning more first place people at any given time and more maps to be night capped. It's still stupid easy to get, and groups conspire to trade emps all the time in NA/PC Haderus.

So if anything....these things that you say were weakened because of multifaction play have gotten stronger over time...although for reasons completely unrelated to multifaction play. Your argument doesn't hold water.

I don't see the same thing you see.......but if you say it has gotten stronger and better from then to now with multi faction homing on same camps ect and ultra cheap camp swapping......do we have more servers and a larger population? Why did we have to consolidate servers just to populate two or three now rather than four or five fully populated as we had then?

Proof rests with our servers and in current population. For some, they may like those changes, but its a mere shadow of population of the community prior to the opening up of the flood gates. "I just want to play with my friends" is what started all of it when the mechanism already existed- we now play the end result.

You see what you want to see, not what's actually there.

Players quit because of lag and poor game balance, not multifactioners. Look at their complaints for yourself.

I see....so, my points don't 'hold water' and now I 'see what I want and not what is actually there'. Who could refute such solid logic so well explained and backed up with examples.

You should reread my and Winnie's posts.

I have and in both case see multi faction players who continue to post in support of something that is clear to most of the community isn't good for the game.

I'm a DC only player. Have been since very early 1.6. I don't even PvE with another faction character.

You should try to look at our points objectively instead of continuing to make assumptions.

For example, I question how much of the community really considers multifaction play bad for the game. Where is that perception coming from exactly? Lol

Here is what I see....you started the game December 2016, and the other poster started in October 2014.

I have listened and tried very hard to remain open minded regarding a different opinion, but in order to speak about things prior to your start dates you would need to have been here. You have every right to an opinion and I am glad you are voicing it, but in order to walk you through step by step I would need to make up for several years of play. I cant do that in a forum post.

Let me use your line here as I think it has particular relevance "You should try to look at our (my) points objectively" by reading what I posted. If there are parts of those explanations that don't make sense to you, maybe there are those in your playing 'circle' that could share background on what was actually happening then so you can get a better idea of why I have a different opinion on this issue.

Until then I am glad you have a different opinion, but I simply do not agree with it and as stated the proof is in our population and number of active campaigns we have.

Um what? I have played ESO since early beta and have PvPed extensively in every group scale and play style since spring 2015. I spoke to no time period prior to then.

And population and number of active campaigns are not causally related to multifaction play or faction loyalty. I explained why already.

What happened to that first account from beta and the second one from spring 2015 then? Mine, as all the others I am aware of had to be changed over from the account creation tag to a new one for forum posting that wasn't the @name....it was tied to the start date of the account.
Username NightbladeMechanics Joined December 2016 Visits 35 Last Active 2:08PM Roles No Roles Points 1,376 Platform PC Badges 18

And in fact you keep speaking to a time when the rule set was different regarding multi faction playing, the cost to change campaigns, emp trading that resulted in the passives being dropped, and the ability to home different chars on the same server. Even in this very response you are speaking to populations you were not around for.

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/3698372/#Comment_3698372

I am guessing there is some hidden meaning in posting a link to ""Due to the overwhelming response..., we’ve decided .... Curse to retain its... PvP burst..." from January 17, 2017?

White wabbit

Campaign lockdown that's what's needed as sadly there are people that switch factions to say where certain factions are on the map , but we all know that the toothless spineless Zos won't do this

Esgameplaya1

White wabbit wrote: »

Campaign lockdown that's what's needed as sadly there are people that switch factions to say where certain factions are on the map , but we all know that the toothless spineless Zos won't do this

Don't blame Zos, they are just trying to increase the competitiveness of the game. Also internet friends are important!!