Open letter to all who believe CP should be permanently removed.

LuminaLilly

CP adds variety to this game, to fine tune your builds and pick a certain setup that enhances your current gear.

I played in azuras star and maintained 2nd and top 5 in emp leaderboards throughout 2016, so I have experience playing with and without cp.

Lately I've seen people believing that pvp is better off without champion points, and ya know, that's fine, if that's how you like to play, Azuras star is always hiring.

But this cp removal is bringing out the worst in people. It's confirmed zenimax is returning (corrected typo) cp at the end of this week, but we have too many people spreading rumors that they will permenantly remove cp. Its NOT confirmed by ZOS so don't count on it. They took down cp for a good reason, not just because some streamer told them to.

Cp is a great way to continue character progression after lvl 50 and playing around with them, being you can change em any time, is fun, for both pvp and pve, so why permenantly remove them?

I personally like to keep a balance and have azuras as my guest and some CP campaign as my home. I, you, and many others have worked hard for our cp and gives us the edge in pvp.

My recommendation: if you hate CP so much, go to azuras star, it's been non cp for close to a year now.

P.S. I do support ZOS doing this solely to attempt to screen for a technical issue.

cjthibs

It's confirmed that ZoS is removing CP? Who is even saying that?

EDIT: You might want to reword that...it makes no sense.

LuminaLilly

cjthibs wrote: »

It's confirmed that ZoS is removing CP? Citation Needed.

Forgive the typo, returning CP the end of this week

Vercingetorix

The problem isn't CP - it's zergs. This week should hopefully make this painfully clear to ZoS. I made a post highlighting the issue and proposed a fix for dealing with zerglings: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/325828/cyrodiil-performance-and-a-solution#latest

alexkdd99

cjthibs wrote: »

It's confirmed that ZoS is removing CP? Who is even saying that?

EDIT: You might want to reword that...it makes no sense.

I think he meant they are reverting the change at the end of the week. So giving cp back in the cp campaigns.

bulbousb16_ESO

CP shouldn't be removed from the game. It should be removed from Cyrodiil. Especially if it impacts the performance of anyone outside of the CP-enabled campaigns.

cjthibs

Vercingetorix wrote: »

The problem isn't CP - it's zergs. This week should hopefully make this painfully clear to ZoS. I made a post highlighting the issue and proposed a fix for dealing with zerglings: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/325828/cyrodiil-performance-and-a-solution#latest

Your criticism is flawed. I'll go and explain why on your post then.

Kagetenchu

What I would like is for them to give us a no cp 7 day campaign or a no cp variant of each campaign of each type. and then give each player a choice of 1 cp and 1 non cp campaign that would count to leaderboards in that campaign.

Darth_Apache

I was really hoping the letter would just say [Snip] that. lmao

[Edit to remove profanity]

Darth_Apache

Kagetenchu wrote: »

What I would like is for them to give us a no cp 7 day campaign or a no cp variant of each campaign of each type. and then give each player a choice of 1 cp and 1 non cp campaign that would count to leaderboards in that campaign.

It would also be cool as hell to have a 7 day period with no cp and after the 7 day run activate cp and see how the leaders fare at that point.

This would be interesting as hell to see.

NewBlacksmurf

To be fair,

ZOS has noted that CP contributes to the server load and that causes negative experiences on the server in more populated areas but thats not the only thing so the removal of CP is to further filter down and identify other possible issues.

I think its important to consider that there may be significant changes to CP in certain environments but that would not come without further testing and changes into the spring/summer.

I'd actually suggest they test no CP in PvE areas as well because lets use the in town examples....
If you turn off CP in towns, that would cause different behaviors around dueling and housing (if housing is considered in town) so not to suggest to take anything away but lets accurately test this not just for PvP @ZOS_BrianWheeler which probably means I should ask @ZOS_RichLambert to look at PvE non CP testing on the live server.

flguy147ub17_ESO

I hear people say stuff like CP adds variety, i think its the opposite. You dont have to make choices on whether you want burst damage, high sustain, heals, be a tank, etc. Because with CP you can have it all. You dont have to make choices with your build much and choice between sustain or damage or survivability. I have no played a MMO ever where i could do insane DPS, heal myself back to full and be tanky all in one.

WhiteMage

Here's the thing... CP doesn't need to be removed, per se, but it does need to be nerfed. Hard. I think it is reasonable to assume the game is most balanced for players without CP, so calling for its removal seems like the best plan. It also has a whole lot more impact to ask for it to go than to just ask for a nerf and there are a few aspects of the argument that make it that way.

The game COULD be made to be balanced around CP, but that would require much bigger changes. I won't knock that option, but there are better ways. The ideal way to balance a game is to fine-tune all classes at their utmost capacity and introduce debuffs from there by way of lower progression levels or removal of gear etc. when CP was tacked on top of everything, that threw everything out of whack. If it's stat-customization you want, then at a base level you need to be nerfed such that the stat tweaks/customizations can be balanced with one another.

It's a very involved process and for simplicity's sake we advocate the simplest path, but it's the end goal, not the means to that end, that matter.

Kagetenchu

Darth_Apache wrote: »

It would also be cool as hell to have a 7 day period with no cp and after the 7 day run activate cp and see how the leaders fare at that point.

This would be interesting as hell to see.

True it would be fun.

I'm more of the opinion that instead of having a "home" and a "guest" campaigns we instead can have an active cp and Non-cp campaign with both campaigns acting like the current home campaign. this would make people invest into the campaigns that they choose. For instance, right now i have a campaign that i battle on and use the guest campaigns for quests; what I am thinking is that if i want to do quests in Bruma instead of campaign switching to a dead campaign where my alliance holds everything I would instead have to fight my way there to help the town.

NewBlacksmurf

WhiteMage wrote: »

Here's the thing... CP doesn't need to be removed, per se, but it does need to be nerfed. Hard. I think it is reasonable to assume the game is most balanced for players without CP, so calling for its removal seems like the best plan. It also has a whole lot more impact to ask for it to go than to just ask for a nerf and there are a few aspects of the argument that make it that way.

The game COULD be made to be balanced around CP, but that would require much bigger changes. I won't knock that option, but there are better ways. The ideal way to balance a game is to fine-tune all classes at their utmost capacity and introduce debuffs from there by way of lower progression levels or removal of gear etc. when CP was tacked on top of everything, that threw everything out of whack. If it's stat-customization you want, then at a base level you need to be nerfed such that the stat tweaks/customizations can be balanced with one another.

It's a very involved process and for simplicity's sake we advocate the simplest path, but it's the end goal, not the means to that end, that matter.

@WhiteMage

I'd say you have it backwards and your ideas are too complicated. The game was already needed a few times. For CP characters only, the game should go back to its original difficulty and be veteran with CP

The existing world could be a non CP world and player can phase to one or the other in this One Tamriel set up

MLGProPlayer

flguy147ub17_ESO wrote: »

I hear people say stuff like CP adds variety, i think its the opposite. You dont have to make choices on whether you want burst damage, high sustain, heals, be a tank, etc. Because with CP you can have it all. You dont have to make choices with your build much and choice between sustain or damage or survivability. I have no played a MMO ever where i could do insane DPS, heal myself back to full and be tanky all in one.

This. And as the cap rises, this will become even more noticeable.

CP also dissuades anyone below max level from trying PvP due to the enormous power spike that CP gives you.

LuminaLilly

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

flguy147ub17_ESO wrote: »

I hear people say stuff like CP adds variety, i think its the opposite. You dont have to make choices on whether you want burst damage, high sustain, heals, be a tank, etc. Because with CP you can have it all. You dont have to make choices with your build much and choice between sustain or damage or survivability. I have no played a MMO ever where i could do insane DPS, heal myself back to full and be tanky all in one.

This. And as the cap rises, this will become even more noticeable.

CP also dissuades anyone below max level from trying PvP due to the enormous power spike that CP gives you.

And penalize players who worked hard for their CP? When I was a mere veteran rank 1 with 30 cp. I was thrown around like a pinball. What I did? I leveled up, hit cp 600, now no one can best me in Cyrodiil by themselves.

cjthibs

LuminaLilly wrote: »

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

flguy147ub17_ESO wrote: »

I hear people say stuff like CP adds variety, i think its the opposite. You dont have to make choices on whether you want burst damage, high sustain, heals, be a tank, etc. Because with CP you can have it all. You dont have to make choices with your build much and choice between sustain or damage or survivability. I have no played a MMO ever where i could do insane DPS, heal myself back to full and be tanky all in one.

This. And as the cap rises, this will become even more noticeable.

CP also dissuades anyone below max level from trying PvP due to the enormous power spike that CP gives you.

And penalize players who worked hard for their CP? When I was a mere veteran rank 1 with 30 cp. I was thrown around like a pinball. What I did? I leveled up now no one can best me in Cyrodiil by themselves.

Because Cyrodiil is meant to be competitive. Having an advantage just because you played for longer isn't a competitive practice.

WhiteMage

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

WhiteMage wrote: »

Here's the thing... CP doesn't need to be removed, per se, but it does need to be nerfed. Hard. I think it is reasonable to assume the game is most balanced for players without CP, so calling for its removal seems like the best plan. It also has a whole lot more impact to ask for it to go than to just ask for a nerf and there are a few aspects of the argument that make it that way.

The game COULD be made to be balanced around CP, but that would require much bigger changes. I won't knock that option, but there are better ways. The ideal way to balance a game is to fine-tune all classes at their utmost capacity and introduce debuffs from there by way of lower progression levels or removal of gear etc. when CP was tacked on top of everything, that threw everything out of whack. If it's stat-customization you want, then at a base level you need to be nerfed such that the stat tweaks/customizations can be balanced with one another.

It's a very involved process and for simplicity's sake we advocate the simplest path, but it's the end goal, not the means to that end, that matter.

@WhiteMage

I'd say you have it backwards and your ideas are too complicated. The game was already nerfed a few times. For CP characters only, the game should go back to its original difficulty and be veteran with CP

The existing world could be a non CP world and player can phase to one or the other in this One Tamriel set up

If that's the complicated part, you can just ignore it. (I bolded something in my quote of your quote of me)

The main point is there is more than one way to skin a cat. CP removal is just the most efficient way.

Darth_Apache

Kagetenchu wrote: »

Darth_Apache wrote: »

Kagetenchu wrote: »

What I would like is for them to give us a no cp 7 day campaign or a no cp variant of each campaign of each type. and then give each player a choice of 1 cp and 1 non cp campaign that would count to leaderboards in that campaign.

It would also be cool as hell to have a 7 day period with no cp and after the 7 day run activate cp and see how the leaders fare at that point.

This would be interesting as hell to see.

True it would be fun.

I'm more of the opinion that instead of having a "home" and a "guest" campaigns we instead can have an active cp and Non-cp campaign with both campaigns acting like the current home campaign. this would make people invest into the campaigns that they choose. For instance, right now i have a campaign that i battle on and use the guest campaigns for quests; what I am thinking is that if i want to do quests in Bruma instead of campaign switching to a dead campaign where my alliance holds everything

I can second this: as a lower cp pvp player I find it difficult to find balance between the two. Choosing which campaign I should quest on vs ones where I stand a chance. Alas, as I just need to git gud haha

LuminaLilly

cjthibs wrote: »

LuminaLilly wrote: »

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

flguy147ub17_ESO wrote: »

I hear people say stuff like CP adds variety, i think its the opposite. You dont have to make choices on whether you want burst damage, high sustain, heals, be a tank, etc. Because with CP you can have it all. You dont have to make choices with your build much and choice between sustain or damage or survivability. I have no played a MMO ever where i could do insane DPS, heal myself back to full and be tanky all in one.

This. And as the cap rises, this will become even more noticeable.

CP also dissuades anyone below max level from trying PvP due to the enormous power spike that CP gives you.

And penalize players who worked hard for their CP? When I was a mere veteran rank 1 with 30 cp. I was thrown around like a pinball. What I did? I leveled up now no one can best me in Cyrodiil by themselves.

Because Cyrodiil is meant to be competitive. Having an advantage just because you played for longer isn't a competitive practice.

I cried for nerfs and cp removal when I was a cp30. Not anymore. You believe people shouldn't be rewarded for the time they invested into this game? That they should 1vx easily when they enter Cyrodiil at level 17 and gold lvl 15 gear?

shauny.gibbsb16_ESO

I like the CP system, I like the diversity and progression we get from it, I don't want to see it go but if it gives a better performance for Cyro for the average player then I'll happily adapt to the changes.

Sigtric

LuminaLilly wrote: »

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

flguy147ub17_ESO wrote: »

I hear people say stuff like CP adds variety, i think its the opposite. You dont have to make choices on whether you want burst damage, high sustain, heals, be a tank, etc. Because with CP you can have it all. You dont have to make choices with your build much and choice between sustain or damage or survivability. I have no played a MMO ever where i could do insane DPS, heal myself back to full and be tanky all in one.

This. And as the cap rises, this will become even more noticeable.

CP also dissuades anyone below max level from trying PvP due to the enormous power spike that CP gives you.

And penalize players who worked hard for their CP? When I was a mere veteran rank 1 with 30 cp. I was thrown around like a pinball. What I did? I leveled up, hit cp 600, now no one can best me in Cyrodiil by themselves.

That's a CP crutch

cjthibs

LuminaLilly wrote: »

cjthibs wrote: »

LuminaLilly wrote: »

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

flguy147ub17_ESO wrote: »

I hear people say stuff like CP adds variety, i think its the opposite. You dont have to make choices on whether you want burst damage, high sustain, heals, be a tank, etc. Because with CP you can have it all. You dont have to make choices with your build much and choice between sustain or damage or survivability. I have no played a MMO ever where i could do insane DPS, heal myself back to full and be tanky all in one.

This. And as the cap rises, this will become even more noticeable.

CP also dissuades anyone below max level from trying PvP due to the enormous power spike that CP gives you.

And penalize players who worked hard for their CP? When I was a mere veteran rank 1 with 30 cp. I was thrown around like a pinball. What I did? I leveled up now no one can best me in Cyrodiil by themselves.

Because Cyrodiil is meant to be competitive. Having an advantage just because you played for longer isn't a competitive practice.

I cried for nerfs and cp removal when I was a cp30. Not anymore. You believe people shouldn't be rewarded for the time they invested into this game? That they should 1vx easily when they enter Cyrodiil at level 17 and gold lvl 15 gear?

PvE and PvP are different, and SHOULD be different.
PvP should be kept competitive and not unbalanced by tryhards just because they have time.

If you want to faceroll things go play PvE...it's stupidly easy. We play PvP to be challenged.

LuminaLilly

cjthibs wrote: »

LuminaLilly wrote: »

cjthibs wrote: »

LuminaLilly wrote: »

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

flguy147ub17_ESO wrote: »

I hear people say stuff like CP adds variety, i think its the opposite. You dont have to make choices on whether you want burst damage, high sustain, heals, be a tank, etc. Because with CP you can have it all. You dont have to make choices with your build much and choice between sustain or damage or survivability. I have no played a MMO ever where i could do insane DPS, heal myself back to full and be tanky all in one.

This. And as the cap rises, this will become even more noticeable.

CP also dissuades anyone below max level from trying PvP due to the enormous power spike that CP gives you.

And penalize players who worked hard for their CP? When I was a mere veteran rank 1 with 30 cp. I was thrown around like a pinball. What I did? I leveled up now no one can best me in Cyrodiil by themselves.

Because Cyrodiil is meant to be competitive. Having an advantage just because you played for longer isn't a competitive practice.

I cried for nerfs and cp removal when I was a cp30. Not anymore. You believe people shouldn't be rewarded for the time they invested into this game? That they should 1vx easily when they enter Cyrodiil at level 17 and gold lvl 15 gear?

PvE and PvP are different, and SHOULD be different.
PvP should be kept competitive and not unbalanced by tryhards just because they have time.

If you want to faceroll things go play PvE...it's stupidly easy. We play PvP to be challenged.

Then play in azuras star or black water. Too many qq when they're level 30 and get killed by a cp600, I mean duh.

Kagetenchu

LuminaLilly wrote: »

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

flguy147ub17_ESO wrote: »

I hear people say stuff like CP adds variety, i think its the opposite. You dont have to make choices on whether you want burst damage, high sustain, heals, be a tank, etc. Because with CP you can have it all. You dont have to make choices with your build much and choice between sustain or damage or survivability. I have no played a MMO ever where i could do insane DPS, heal myself back to full and be tanky all in one.

This. And as the cap rises, this will become even more noticeable.

CP also dissuades anyone below max level from trying PvP due to the enormous power spike that CP gives you.

And penalize players who worked hard for their CP? When I was a mere veteran rank 1 with 30 cp. I was thrown around like a pinball. What I did? I leveled up, hit cp 600, now no one can best me in Cyrodiil by themselves.

Penalize? No

However, without some sort of learning curve (CP limits or no cp) all you get is people who come out of BWB for the first time and either:
1. They give up on PvP and create a new toon to back into BWB
2. They go into AS and depending on platform it's either locked or dead
3. They never touch PvP again
4. They grind to max CP and don't fully understand the class and still lose and were're back at square 1.

The 2x Ap has drawn people into PvP who normally don't maybe we can find a happy medium somewhere in the middle.

cjthibs

LuminaLilly wrote: »

cjthibs wrote: »

LuminaLilly wrote: »

cjthibs wrote: »

LuminaLilly wrote: »

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

flguy147ub17_ESO wrote: »

I hear people say stuff like CP adds variety, i think its the opposite. You dont have to make choices on whether you want burst damage, high sustain, heals, be a tank, etc. Because with CP you can have it all. You dont have to make choices with your build much and choice between sustain or damage or survivability. I have no played a MMO ever where i could do insane DPS, heal myself back to full and be tanky all in one.

This. And as the cap rises, this will become even more noticeable.

CP also dissuades anyone below max level from trying PvP due to the enormous power spike that CP gives you.

And penalize players who worked hard for their CP? When I was a mere veteran rank 1 with 30 cp. I was thrown around like a pinball. What I did? I leveled up now no one can best me in Cyrodiil by themselves.

Because Cyrodiil is meant to be competitive. Having an advantage just because you played for longer isn't a competitive practice.

I cried for nerfs and cp removal when I was a cp30. Not anymore. You believe people shouldn't be rewarded for the time they invested into this game? That they should 1vx easily when they enter Cyrodiil at level 17 and gold lvl 15 gear?

PvE and PvP are different, and SHOULD be different.
PvP should be kept competitive and not unbalanced by tryhards just because they have time.

If you want to faceroll things go play PvE...it's stupidly easy. We play PvP to be challenged.

Then play in azuras star or black water. Too many qq when they're level 30 and get killed by a cp600, I mean duh.

I always do play in Azura's.

LuminaLilly

Kagetenchu wrote: »

LuminaLilly wrote: »

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

flguy147ub17_ESO wrote: »

I hear people say stuff like CP adds variety, i think its the opposite. You dont have to make choices on whether you want burst damage, high sustain, heals, be a tank, etc. Because with CP you can have it all. You dont have to make choices with your build much and choice between sustain or damage or survivability. I have no played a MMO ever where i could do insane DPS, heal myself back to full and be tanky all in one.

This. And as the cap rises, this will become even more noticeable.

CP also dissuades anyone below max level from trying PvP due to the enormous power spike that CP gives you.

And penalize players who worked hard for their CP? When I was a mere veteran rank 1 with 30 cp. I was thrown around like a pinball. What I did? I leveled up, hit cp 600, now no one can best me in Cyrodiil by themselves.

Penalize? No

However, without some sort of learning curve (CP limits or no cp) all you get is people who come out of BWB for the first time and either:
1. They give up on PvP and create a new toon to back into BWB
2. They go into AS and depending on platform it's either locked or dead
3. They never touch PvP again
4. They grind to max CP and don't fully understand the class and still lose and were're back at square 1.

The 2x Ap has drawn people into PvP who normally don't maybe we can find a happy medium somewhere in the middle.

Too many cry and qq about everything in this game. I doubt there will ever be a happy medium in this game. Maybe people actually leveled up and not expect to 1vx as a level 20 then maybe.

Waffennacht

Kagetenchu wrote: »

LuminaLilly wrote: »

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

flguy147ub17_ESO wrote: »

I hear people say stuff like CP adds variety, i think its the opposite. You dont have to make choices on whether you want burst damage, high sustain, heals, be a tank, etc. Because with CP you can have it all. You dont have to make choices with your build much and choice between sustain or damage or survivability. I have no played a MMO ever where i could do insane DPS, heal myself back to full and be tanky all in one.

This. And as the cap rises, this will become even more noticeable.

CP also dissuades anyone below max level from trying PvP due to the enormous power spike that CP gives you.

And penalize players who worked hard for their CP? When I was a mere veteran rank 1 with 30 cp. I was thrown around like a pinball. What I did? I leveled up, hit cp 600, now no one can best me in Cyrodiil by themselves.

Penalize? No

However, without some sort of learning curve (CP limits or no cp) all you get is people who come out of BWB for the first time and either:
1. They give up on PvP and create a new toon to back into BWB
2. They go into AS and depending on platform it's either locked or dead
3. They never touch PvP again
4. They grind to max CP and don't fully understand the class and still lose and were're back at square 1.

The 2x Ap has drawn people into PvP who normally don't maybe we can find a happy medium somewhere in the middle.

The game shouldn't cater to the new players, but rather those that have played and invested for years.

The only imbalance CP brings is, those with vs those without. Those without can always earn more.

Why give no incentive to play the game? You're saying it should be ok for me to not play for the next year, pick it back up, and be in the exact same position as someone whom has played for that whole year?

It creates an incentive to play other games.

DeadlyRecluse

Level playing fields are the worst, eh?

LuminaLilly

Waffennacht wrote: »

Kagetenchu wrote: »

LuminaLilly wrote: »

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

flguy147ub17_ESO wrote: »

I hear people say stuff like CP adds variety, i think its the opposite. You dont have to make choices on whether you want burst damage, high sustain, heals, be a tank, etc. Because with CP you can have it all. You dont have to make choices with your build much and choice between sustain or damage or survivability. I have no played a MMO ever where i could do insane DPS, heal myself back to full and be tanky all in one.

This. And as the cap rises, this will become even more noticeable.

CP also dissuades anyone below max level from trying PvP due to the enormous power spike that CP gives you.

And penalize players who worked hard for their CP? When I was a mere veteran rank 1 with 30 cp. I was thrown around like a pinball. What I did? I leveled up, hit cp 600, now no one can best me in Cyrodiil by themselves.

Penalize? No

However, without some sort of learning curve (CP limits or no cp) all you get is people who come out of BWB for the first time and either:
1. They give up on PvP and create a new toon to back into BWB
2. They go into AS and depending on platform it's either locked or dead
3. They never touch PvP again
4. They grind to max CP and don't fully understand the class and still lose and were're back at square 1.

The 2x Ap has drawn people into PvP who normally don't maybe we can find a happy medium somewhere in the middle.

The game shouldn't cater to the new players, but rather those that have played and invested for years.

The only imbalance CP brings is, those with vs those without. Those without can always earn more.

Why give no incentive to play the game? You're saying it should be ok for me to not play for the next year, pick it back up, and be in the exact same position as someone whom has played for that whole year?

It creates an incentive to play other games.

@Waffennacht OMGOSH THANK YOU

point I've been trying to make

It seems everyone wants to get good with zero effort and want ZOS to hand everything to them in a silver platter

CP is EARNED not given