Open letter to all who believe CP should be permanently removed.

Egonieser

Knootewoot wrote: »

Egonieser wrote: »

flguy147ub17_ESO wrote: »

I hear people say stuff like CP adds variety, i think its the opposite. You dont have to make choices on whether you want burst damage, high sustain, heals, be a tank, etc. Because with CP you can have it all. You dont have to make choices with your build much and choice between sustain or damage or survivability. I have no played a MMO ever where i could do insane DPS, heal myself back to full and be tanky all in one.

That's what i've been saying from the start of CP system's inception.
People who claim that CP adds variety have obviously no clue how builds and min/maxing works. They probably just chug along with one character, killing some mobs, picking some flowers with blue and green gear and claim that CP system is fine and it adds variety.
Maybe to them, to their subpar and un-directional (yes i just made that up) builds it does add a feeling of a "variety" as their base stats are so low and any addition to it might feel like a huge change in a certain direction. But it certainly does not apply to min-maxing optimal PvP builds and hardcore PvE Raiding builds.
CP allows to cover your character's/builds inherent weaknesses (Which devs obviously didn't account for when making either said sets or the CP system itself) taking any variety and risk vs reward out of the equation.
In the old days you either went DPS, or you went Tank or Heal. You didn't do it all, you had to make sacrifices. Wanted that insanse DPS? Sure, go ahead and have it, but beware you will run out of resources in a few seconds and die from a wet noodle slap as all your focus went into DPS.
Same for tanking/healing - yeah you had virtually indestructible tanks that could take on 10 or more people, but at what cost? Their attacks felt like wet fish slaps, you just stood there afk while they were trying to inflict any kind of noticeable damage to you - that was their weakness.

Now with CP and broken sets that didn't take CP into account, what do we see?
*DPS builds with absolutely insane damage and sustain for near infinite fight times/dodgerolls etc (if done right)
*Tanks with all their positive traits and ability to dish out DPS close to dedicated DPS builds while not having the drawbacks of being squishy/low on sustain.

Now please, Explain OP - HOW is CP adding variety in this game? Please, i want to see an actual and factual argument where CP adds any variety instead of doing the exact opposite. Because as it stands now, CP has destroyed any and all variety and shoehorned people into FoTM builds which are literally "Jack-of-all-Trades" builds, good for everything or you are useless for anything remotely competitive, especially PvP.
In PvE group play you can somewhat get away with it as you have teammates to cover you and your weaknesses to an extent, as you will have people dropping shards, healing you, shooting magicka orbs, elemental drains etc to help, but PvP is too chaotic and unpredictable and nobody will be asking you if you need shards or orbs for your sustain as nobody will have the time for that. You either pull your own weight or you die.

CP could give variety if there was a real limit on it. Let's say 300. Then people have to put CP in specific trees like Skyrim had. But in the end, after 15 years, everybody will have 3600 and have everything maxed. Everybody is the same.

Same for skill points. There should be a cap so you can not have every passive or skill unlocked. Then you have diversity.

Like the 250 skill point system of SWG.

But the downside is.. with a limit there is always the FOTM build and people will always choose that. So even then diversity will only be with the people who want to play in their own unique style.

Yeah there will be FoTM, there always is, but the thing about FoTM - it doesn't appeal to everyone and with strict limitations - i don't assume everyone will be wanting to play that one or two particular styles, especially if they totally dislike said playstyle. But again, if FoTM are narrowed down to a certain amount, it's much easier for devs to change things accordingly to make them more on-par with everything else as there are much less variables to consider.

raglau

I think if ZOS removed CP in PvE (which they will not) it would pretty much signify the end of higher level PvE play. The only thing that differentiates what are now bland, like-for-like characters, all of which essentially have the same range of skills but reskinned and renamed, is the application of CP in ways that can make one's build unique. That's why people have spent years grinding them.

This is why ZOS will not do it. The only people who want CP removed are a small sub-section of PvP players who, as I've always observed, are on a never-ending mission to nerf every class, race or char difference into bland uniformity in their overpowering addiction to 'balance'. What this really means of course is that in their minds, some have more balance than others, their own chars of course ;-) This is not all PvP players by any means, most understand that balance is actually obtained by using the tools at their disposal and L2P.

But PvP players are a miniscule sliver of ZOS' revenue from ESO, they already get far more attention than they deserve in business criticality terms so I don't see ZOS making a sweeping change here. CP is a solid PvE model that does provide an incentive to keep re-running content, there's no way they'll chuck that away just to appease a tiny handful of PvP players.

LuminaLilly

@Ultimate_Overlord first off, I played PC na. I transferred to xb1 after my PC died. Second, how am I a Zergbad when I never run in a group larger than 4 in Cyrodiil, and duel primarily. You're probably those cats who run in 7 man groups and back away then you get bursted down when I pull you away from your group.

>inb4 "nuh uhhh I solo plenty"

Just come 1v1 me and see if you can fight as well as you can run that mouth of yours.

Even if you were on xb1 na you wouldn't duel me, you would be too afraid to end up like this guy

http://xboxclips.com/ImClone+Systems/816146c8-5586-4626-a119-c9ef67c9bb90

Pops_ND_Irish

Every time I turn on the game I have incentive to play !

RinaldoGandolphi

im sorry, but equating time played(CP earned) as some sort of entitlement is flawed logic. The CP system was created initially to be nothing more then a time sink to replace the old veteran ranks. In many ways, the CP grind is a worse grind then the old vet system people so rightfully despised.

As for CP giving build variety, thats simply not true. CP killed the majority of the games true hybrid builds. I leveled my Templar in 1.2 to be a "Bowplar" for those who were not around and don't know what that is, it was a Templar who used Bow abilities and Dawn's Wrath abilities equally, wearing Medium Armor with a two handed sword to fight, and it was very effective because Soft caps and no CP meant you were not gimped if you didn't put everything into one stat. Pelinal's is still a joke and works on maybe 1-2 niche builds, but still falls woefully short against any kind of min-max dedicated CP build, and thats simply facts.

The percentages given by the CP system are ridiclious...25% more regen, 16% more cost reduction, 50% more healing(Blessed & Quick Recovery), 25% more crit damage, 25% damage mitigation, etc

All the Champion system does is makes everyone a house, and when everyone can be a house, it just comes down to numbers. the CP crushed small scale PVP more then anything else in the history of this game.

With the CP System right now, you can run 5 Heavy 3 Jewels and Sword and Board on any kind of Templar and be a champion. Have you ever tried to duo or 3 man PVP a 6-8 man group with 2 of 3 of those Templars in group with the build listed above with 35k health? The amount of damage it takes to kill one of those guys is incredible...they would have to be away from their keyboard in a CP campaign to die.

If im with another DK, or another Nightblade, its doesn't matter if I outplay them, you can't win...if there is two or more covering each other, forget about it, theres no chance. You have to run a specialized build that Negates and spams Roots(Encase) just to deal with those guys, and you can't specialize that specifically in 2-3 man PVP....this means these ridiclious CP set ups like the Templars i talk about above favor zergs and zerging.

My Sorc can triple stack shields infinitely on a CP campaign and never drop below 90% magic(thats without Engine Guardian or Lich) that's broken!

My Templar(with 5 Heavy 3 Jewels and Sword and Board) can wave his hand one time and go from 10% health to full instantly, and has infinite sustain, and can tank 6-8 people with impunity, keeping others alive and being more tanky then most tanks...that's broken!

You have Nightblades who can literally roll endlessly, and still dish out very good damage with nearly infinite stamina sustain. The CP system gives them so much sustain and damage they can simply not have to gear towards sustain and still do very very well.

You had guys like Ezareth(the best player to ever play ESO IMO, and I was lucky enough to call him a friend even if we were on diff factions mostly) tried to tell them on the 1.6 PTS that once folks got past 250-300 CP everyone would be a god and the setups possible would be ridiclious, and folks wouldn't listen.

If you were only allowed to have 200 CP active while in Cyrodiil it would be ok, but 600 is way too many...it allows you to invest in everything...on my DK in PVE i can have 100 in cost reduction and 100 in regen, its shouldn't be that way! you shouldn't be able to invest in everything the way it is now, and they just keep raising the cap.

Small scale PVP and 1vX on Azura Star is actually competitive and very satisfying, because no one is a god, if you make mistakes, you die. This is how it should be. Sypher had a rant about 8 months ago talking about why dueling sucks and how CP makes everything just a min-max game where everyone has everything, and he was just as right then as he is now.

Acting like CP adds some layer of skill to the game is comical.

I totally want them to keep a CP campaign for people who want to play that way, but I simply can't go back to the infinite sustain, infinite resource, perma tank, perma healer, instagib broken CP pvp. If folks want to play that way, fine, but i'll glady give up my 745+ and growing CP in return for pvp that feels significantly better, pvp where you have to give up damage to get sustain, have to give up sustain to get damage, have to give up damage to be tanky, etc....none of that is true on CP pvp...in CP pvp....everyone is simply a house, and when everyone is a house, it all comes down to numbers.

my 9 man group wiped 35 AD at Roe Mine last night, by outsmarting them, ultimi bombing them, and siege while they tried to choo choo train us with Destro Ultis,...smart flanking siege placement, and 7 coordinated Ulty Bombs rekt them, such a fight would not have been winnable on Trueflame CP due to the power creep of CP favoring numbers due to the "everyone is a house" nature of CP.

Tan9oSuccka

I found it a bit more enjoyable. Makes the cheese builds less cheesy.

[Deleted User]

The user and all related content has been deleted.

Tabbycat

As a PvE player that doesn't give two hoots about PvP, I would like to make a point about Champion Points.

What's the point of leveling your character if your character never gets stronger?

The only way your character gets stronger is through CP. Without CP, you would not have any sense of progression with your character because you would never feel like your character was getting stronger.

Champion Points become especially important now that all of PvE is battle leveled. No matter what zone you go into, you will have the exact same playing experience. Unless you have champion points, in which case, you are stronger and can more easily combat enemies. Take that away and you have no sense of character progression. Which means you have no sense that all that work you did to level up your character was worth any of the time you invested in it. I cannot stress enough how important character progression is to the PvE player (except for RP players who may play for a different reason).

PvP is a different story because you are just running around doing the same thing over and over again.

PvE is an entirely different kettle of fish and should be treated entirely differently from PvP. You want to take CP away from PvP? I don't care. But you sure better leave them in PvE or those of us who play PvE have lost all incentive to quest or do anything to advance our characters.

If you remove Champion Points from PvE, you may as well remove leveling.

LuminaLilly

Tabbycat wrote: »

As a PvE player that doesn't give two hoots about PvP, I would like to make a point about Champion Points.

What's the point of leveling your character if your character never gets stronger?

The only way your character gets stronger is through CP. Without CP, you would not have any sense of progression with your character because you would never feel like your character was getting stronger.

Champion Points become especially important now that all of PvE is battle leveled. No matter what zone you go into, you will have the exact same playing experience. Unless you have champion points, in which case, you are stronger and can more easily combat enemies. Take that away and you have no sense of character progression. Which means you have no sense that all that work you did to level up your character was worth any of the time you invested in it.

PvP is a different story because you are just running around doing the same thing over and over again.

PvE is an entirely different kettle of fish and should be treated entirely differently from PvP. You want to take CP away from PvP? I don't care. But you sure better leave them in PvE or those of us who play PvE have lost all incentive to quest or do anything to advance our characters.

If you remove Champion Points from PvE, you may as well remove leveling.

People just don't want to work.

Knootewoot

Tabbycat wrote: »

As a PvE player that doesn't give two hoots about PvP, I would like to make a point about Champion Points.

What's the point of leveling your character if your character never gets stronger?

The only way your character gets stronger is through CP. Without CP, you would not have any sense of progression with your character because you would never feel like your character was getting stronger.

Champion Points become especially important now that all of PvE is battle leveled. No matter what zone you go into, you will have the exact same playing experience. Unless you have champion points, in which case, you are stronger and can more easily combat enemies. Take that away and you have no sense of character progression. Which means you have no sense that all that work you did to level up your character was worth any of the time you invested in it. I cannot stress enough how important character progression is to the PvE player (except for RP players who may play for a different reason).

PvP is a different story because you are just running around doing the same thing over and over again.

PvE is an entirely different kettle of fish and should be treated entirely differently from PvP. You want to take CP away from PvP? I don't care. But you sure better leave them in PvE or those of us who play PvE have lost all incentive to quest or do anything to advance our characters.

If you remove Champion Points from PvE, you may as well remove leveling.

I understand this completely for some people. But not everybody, at least me, play for the sake of progression. If I play a mmo it's for the quests, PvP, exploring, having fun doing dungeons. And I have that fun at lvl 1 or 100 I don't mind.

I have played many mmo's and at max level, with no further progression, the game is still fun.

I never cared for achievements or progression in any game. I loved the game battlefield 1942 for instance. No unlocks, level just plain fun. When I played BF3 with a friend he suddenly quit: I got all unlocks, he said. I finished the game, goodbye.

SlowMetabolism

I have 730+ CP and wouldnt mind if they set the cap at 300cp or so. Eventually the cap will reach 700, 800, 900 etc.... At that point it will be even more broken. PvP will have more cancer builds and unkillables and PvE will be too easy. While it allows for build fine tuning eventually you will be tuned into everything. With some adjustments in the CP passive amounts (such as unchained) I think 300 CP would be a perfect amount to set the cap at. They will have to do something about the looming problem of max CP and it will definitely make most of the player base unhappy. Whether it be setting a cap that is higher than it is now and leaving it the same forever or decreasing the amount of CP we are able to use down from what it is now people with max CP will be upset that they cant use the CP they have earned if they are above whatever the cap gets set at.

ZOS_Bill

Greetings,

We have removed some posts from this thread for rudeness and baiting. While disagreements are expected, please try and remain civil and constructive when discussing things. Please keep the conversation on track and follow the forum rules.

arkansas_ESO

Waffennacht wrote: »

Kagetenchu wrote: »

LuminaLilly wrote: »

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

flguy147ub17_ESO wrote: »

I hear people say stuff like CP adds variety, i think its the opposite. You dont have to make choices on whether you want burst damage, high sustain, heals, be a tank, etc. Because with CP you can have it all. You dont have to make choices with your build much and choice between sustain or damage or survivability. I have no played a MMO ever where i could do insane DPS, heal myself back to full and be tanky all in one.

This. And as the cap rises, this will become even more noticeable.

CP also dissuades anyone below max level from trying PvP due to the enormous power spike that CP gives you.

And penalize players who worked hard for their CP? When I was a mere veteran rank 1 with 30 cp. I was thrown around like a pinball. What I did? I leveled up, hit cp 600, now no one can best me in Cyrodiil by themselves.

Penalize? No

However, without some sort of learning curve (CP limits or no cp) all you get is people who come out of BWB for the first time and either:
1. They give up on PvP and create a new toon to back into BWB
2. They go into AS and depending on platform it's either locked or dead
3. They never touch PvP again
4. They grind to max CP and don't fully understand the class and still lose and were're back at square 1.

The 2x Ap has drawn people into PvP who normally don't maybe we can find a happy medium somewhere in the middle.

The game shouldn't cater to the new players, but rather those that have played and invested for years.

The only imbalance CP brings is, those with vs those without. Those without can always earn more.

Why give no incentive to play the game? You're saying it should be ok for me to not play for the next year, pick it back up, and be in the exact same position as someone whom has played for that whole year?

It creates an incentive to play other games.

A lower barrier of entry encourages more people to pick up the game, a high level cap scares away new players as they feel like they won't be able to catch up in a reasonable time

Ultimate_Overlord

@LuminaLilly 1st off, your "inbefore uuhh i solo plenty" is pretty much the exact response you gave me xD
2nd, theres a thing such as "zerg surfing". What it means is that you may not be grouped, you may be grouped with only 4 ppl, but you run near a zerg doing pretty much whatever they do.
3rd, dueling stopped being an indicator of skill a long time ago.
Im on pc eu, so theres no other way for me to duel you other than doing it verbally.
Anyway, my question still stands, what is exactly the point youre trying to make? Respond carefully, cause your comments have almost lost all credibility after you turned this thread into an epeen contest.
Also, bashing everyone who says something sensible against your opinion isnt a way of discussing, its only a way of showing your immaturity and lack of knowledge.

LuminaLilly

Ultimate_Overlord wrote: »

@LuminaLilly 1st off, your "inbefore uuhh i solo plenty" is pretty much the exact response you gave me xD
2nd, theres a thing such as "zerg surfing". What it means is that you may not be grouped, you may be grouped with only 4 ppl, but you run near a zerg doing pretty much whatever they do.
3rd, dueling stopped being an indicator of skill a long time ago.
Im on pc eu, so theres no other way for me to duel you other than doing it verbally.
Anyway, my question still stands, what is exactly the point youre trying to make? Respond carefully, cause your comments have almost lost all credibility after you turned this thread into an epeen contest.
Also, bashing everyone who says something sensible against your opinion isnt a way of discussing, its only a way of showing your immaturity and lack of knowledge.

@Ultimate_Overlord
Why does everyone want all cp removed from all campaigns when azuras star has been there for the past year. If they dislike cp, go to azuras star, leave the other campaigns alone

cjthibs

LuminaLilly wrote: »

Ultimate_Overlord wrote: »

@LuminaLilly 1st off, your "inbefore uuhh i solo plenty" is pretty much the exact response you gave me xD
2nd, theres a thing such as "zerg surfing". What it means is that you may not be grouped, you may be grouped with only 4 ppl, but you run near a zerg doing pretty much whatever they do.
3rd, dueling stopped being an indicator of skill a long time ago.
Im on pc eu, so theres no other way for me to duel you other than doing it verbally.
Anyway, my question still stands, what is exactly the point youre trying to make? Respond carefully, cause your comments have almost lost all credibility after you turned this thread into an epeen contest.
Also, bashing everyone who says something sensible against your opinion isnt a way of discussing, its only a way of showing your immaturity and lack of knowledge.

@Ultimate_Overlord
Alright. Point being, why does everyone want all cp removed from all campaigns when azuras star has been there for the past year. If they dislike cp, go to azuras star, leave the other campaigns alone

I don't and I don't think anyone else here is demanding that.
Most of us on this side are just expressing that we enjoy PvP more without CP and have been discussing our perception of balance.

LuminaLilly

@cjthibs

Don't get me wrong,,it's cool that people like playing without cp, Azuras star is there and always will be. I started getting agitated when many advocated for permanent removal from all campaigns. Which would ruin the game for a gross majority.

Also, Azuras star may be dead on some servers. But perhaps when they return cp next week, many will have incentive to go to azuras star. Or even make a 7 day no cp. Just leave the other campaigns alone.

Zyrudin

cjthibs wrote: »

I don't and I don't think anyone else here is demanding that.
Most of us on this side are just expressing that we enjoy PvP more without CP and have been discussing our perception of balance.

If the population on Azura's Star becomes consistently capped after this event, then ZOS might be forced to start a new campaign with no CP as well. I think Lilly's issue might be that if the majority preferred these non-CP campaigns, he'd be probably be left with mostly NPC's to fight with, with the exception of the occasional stranded shard-picker that goes down in a second and never comes back.

cjthibs

LuminaLilly wrote: »

@cjthibs @Ultimate_Overlord

Don't get me wrong,,it's cool that people like playing without cp, Azuras star is there and always will be. I started getting agitated when many advocated for permanent removal from all campaigns. Which would ruin the game for a gross majority.

The reason you got so much flak is because you mischaracterized what most of us were saying and immediately jumped to the conclusion that we all must just suck at the game.

The rest of us wanted to have a discussion about balance and CP...you just wanted to insult people and shut down dissenting opinions.

People have laid our their own thoughts and you've continually belittled them for it. What exactly did you expect?

I actually like the idea of continued progression, but it needs to be more horizontal. It should add character to builds, not just stack the same stats even farther. That sort of approach would give people something to work for while keeping relative balance. I have seen people calling for things like this...but very very few people advocating for wholesale removal of CP from the game.

luen79rwb17_ESO

I'm definately switching to Azura once this campaign is over and trying it for a month. Hopefully it's not a dead server after this test.

It just annoys me to deal with so many gear sets, now for PVP aswell >_<

Jitterbug

Pibbles wrote: »

The only people who want CP removed are a small sub-section of PvP players who, as I've always observed, are on a never-ending mission to nerf every class, race or char difference into bland uniformity in their overpowering addiction to 'balance'.

Amen. It's a disappointing development.

LuminaLilly

Zyrudin wrote: »

cjthibs wrote: »

I don't and I don't think anyone else here is demanding that.
Most of us on this side are just expressing that we enjoy PvP more without CP and have been discussing our perception of balance.

If the population on Azura's Star becomes consistently capped after this event, then ZOS might be forced to start a new campaign with no CP as well. I think Lilly's issue might be that if the majority preferred these non-CP campaigns, he'd be probably be left with mostly NPC's to fight with, with the exception of the occasional stranded shard-picker that goes down in a second and never comes back.

Not really. Haderus and scourge will always have action. It's not the 99.9% of players that will go to azuras star . A gRoss majority will still stick to their campaigns, I can bet on that

LuminaLilly

@cjthibs what grinds my gears are people advocating for its permanent removal. And im like "just why?"

This is the entire point of my open letter. Read the title.

LuminaLilly

The question is not "do you like CP or not" the question is why do you want to permanently remove from the game?

cjthibs

LuminaLilly wrote: »

@cjthibs what grinds my gears are people advocating for its permanent removal. And im like "just why?"

Then discuss it. Explain why you think that's a bad idea and not just accuse them of sucking at the game.

There are many reasons why people could think CP is a bad idea.
Balance - Why do we bother scaling folks if CP can unbalance that?
Increasing competition - Putting the focus more on skill than who has more time to grind.
Boring progression system - It doesn't add any character to builds, just raises stats.
Increased challenge - No CP means less infinite sustain builds.

Removing CP doesn't make it easier, it makes it less forgiving and more challenging. You can't have unlimited resources in No-CP. (Not easily anyway.) You have to make sacrifices or run a more rounded build. (Which is also a sacrifice.) CP is just free stuff. Just free stats with no drawbacks.

Stopnaggin

Darth_Apache wrote: »

Kagetenchu wrote: »

Darth_Apache wrote: »

Kagetenchu wrote: »

What I would like is for them to give us a no cp 7 day campaign or a no cp variant of each campaign of each type. and then give each player a choice of 1 cp and 1 non cp campaign that would count to leaderboards in that campaign.

It would also be cool as hell to have a 7 day period with no cp and after the 7 day run activate cp and see how the leaders fare at that point.

This would be interesting as hell to see.

True it would be fun.

I'm more of the opinion that instead of having a "home" and a "guest" campaigns we instead can have an active cp and Non-cp campaign with both campaigns acting like the current home campaign. this would make people invest into the campaigns that they choose. For instance, right now i have a campaign that i battle on and use the guest campaigns for quests; what I am thinking is that if i want to do quests in Bruma instead of campaign switching to a dead campaign where my alliance holds everything

I can second this: as a lower cp pvp player I find it difficult to find balance between the two. Choosing which campaign I should quest on vs ones where I stand a chance. Alas, as I just need to git gud haha

Questing is actually easier in an enemy faction controlled campaign. They aren't interested in delves and quests, they are more concentrated on keeps and resources. So a single player can stay under the radar.

LuminaLilly

cjthibs wrote: »

LuminaLilly wrote: »

@cjthibs what grinds my gears are people advocating for its permanent removal. And im like "just why?"

Then discuss it. Explain why you think that's a bad idea and not just accuse them of sucking at the game.

There are many reasons why people could think CP is a bad idea.
Balance - Why do we bother scaling folks if CP can unbalance that?
Increasing competition - Putting the focus more on skill than who has more time to grind.
Boring progression system - It doesn't add any character to builds, just raises stats.
Increased challenge - No CP means less infinite sustain builds.

Removing CP doesn't make it easier, it makes it less forgiving and more challenging. You can't have unlimited resources in No-CP. (Not easily anyway.) You have to make sacrifices or run a more rounded build. (Which is also a sacrifice.) CP is just free stuff. Just free stats with no drawbacks.

@cjthibs

CP has always been part of the game since 1.3 (?) And has added ways to fine tune builds.
It gives you the edge against others.
Without cp, all the nerfs to Magick builds are still active and brutally punishes Magicka build. With nerfs to Magicka sorc and Magicka Templar. I have a character rotation and my stamplar has been immensely easier to play lately, while my Magicka sorc feels handicapped.

and also why impose on thone who actually enjoy cp

So help me if someone says "u just suck without cp" which is why I've been saying vice versa

Koolio

Tabbycat wrote: »

As a PvE player that doesn't give two hoots about PvP, I would like to make a point about Champion Points.

What's the point of leveling your character if your character never gets stronger?

The only way your character gets stronger is through CP. Without CP, you would not have any sense of progression with your character because you would never feel like your character was getting stronger.

Champion Points become especially important now that all of PvE is battle leveled. No matter what zone you go into, you will have the exact same playing experience. Unless you have champion points, in which case, you are stronger and can more easily combat enemies. Take that away and you have no sense of character progression. Which means you have no sense that all that work you did to level up your character was worth any of the time you invested in it. I cannot stress enough how important character progression is to the PvE player (except for RP players who may play for a different reason).

PvP is a different story because you are just running around doing the same thing over and over again.

PvE is an entirely different kettle of fish and should be treated entirely differently from PvP. You want to take CP away from PvP? I don't care. But you sure better leave them in PvE or those of us who play PvE have lost all incentive to quest or do anything to advance our characters.

If you remove Champion Points from PvE, you may as well remove leveling.

What about people who want to progress their characters for PVP purposes? I could care less if PVE CP were removed to help the performance of PVP. I mean you're just attacking a different looking character over and over. If you take CP away from those who like it in PVP it will take all incentive to kill or do anything to advance OUR characters.

cjthibs

LuminaLilly wrote: »

cjthibs wrote: »

LuminaLilly wrote: »

@cjthibs what grinds my gears are people advocating for its permanent removal. And im like "just why?"

Then discuss it. Explain why you think that's a bad idea and not just accuse them of sucking at the game.

There are many reasons why people could think CP is a bad idea.
Balance - Why do we bother scaling folks if CP can unbalance that?
Increasing competition - Putting the focus more on skill than who has more time to grind.
Boring progression system - It doesn't add any character to builds, just raises stats.
Increased challenge - No CP means less infinite sustain builds.

Removing CP doesn't make it easier, it makes it less forgiving and more challenging. You can't have unlimited resources in No-CP. (Not easily anyway.) You have to make sacrifices or run a more rounded build. (Which is also a sacrifice.) CP is just free stuff. Just free stats with no drawbacks.

@cjthibs

CP has always been part of the game since 1.3 (?) And has added ways to fine tune builds.
It gives you the edge against others.
Without cp, all the nerfs to Magick builds are still active and brutally punishes Magicka build. With nerfs to Magicka sorc and Magicka Templar. I have a character rotation and my stamplar has been immensely easier to play lately, while my Magicka sorc feels handicapped.

and also why impose on thone who actually enjoy cp

So help me if someone says "u just suck without cp" which is why I've been saying vice versa

Fair enough. ...it has always been there for consoles, but not for PC. We had quite a long time with no CP, so perhaps some of us old-timers have a few tricks to round out our builds that console folks haven't had to learn.

I wouldn't say you suck, but I would say it takes a bit of creativity to overcome these shortcomings without CP to compensate. Likely you'd have to sacrifice some damage or survivability. Totally doable though.

This is also why fights are shorter without CP. You can't make mistakes and expect to get out of there alive. You mismanage resources, or don't have enough regen...you die. And this is another reason why non-CP is more fun for me, fights tend to get resolved quicker, both on an individual basis and for entire groups. There seems to be a lot more back and forth and less of two zergs standing in the same spot and wailing on each other.

Violynne

Darth_Apache wrote: »

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My goodness, this child represents everything wrong with gaming today.

I'm going to have nightmares tonight.