Blazing Spear Nerf

Ron_Burgundy_79

ScooberSteve wrote: »

Templars have the best single target cc in the game without a doubt - Javelin

Lore_lai

@Joy_Division - but Mist is *not* completely shutting down magicka regen, that's the issue.
It's shutting down your Character Sheet regen but you have various other sources of magicka return.

As I have said - Constitution procs, Channeled Focus procs, sets that return magicka on being hit proc.
We're up to "getting no mag regen as per tooltip" as a downside to HERE - have all these procs while in mist.
And the fact that you get strong mitigation, stam regen and hard CC immunity, you can basically see it as converting magicka to stam, while still recovering magicka (and we all know how deadly running out of stam and getting hard CC'd is).

That is my only issue with Mist Form - it allows a certain carry of bad resource management instead of punishing it.

Joy_Division

Lore_lai wrote: »

@Joy_Division - but Mist is *not* completely shutting down magicka regen, that's the issue.
It's shutting down your Character Sheet regen but you have various other sources of magicka return.

As I have said - Constitution procs, Channeled Focus procs, sets that return magicka on being hit proc.
We're up to "getting no mag regen as per tooltip" as a downside to HERE - have all these procs while in mist.
And the fact that you get strong mitigation, stam regen and hard CC immunity, you can basically see it as converting magicka to stam, while still recovering magicka (and we all know how deadly running out of stam and getting hard CC'd is).

That is my only issue with Mist Form - it allows a certain carry of bad resource management instead of punishing it.

I think you are overestimating how much resource management this provides because heavy armor templars can find ways to get some alternative regen than say light armor players without Rune Focus.

Besides, with Dark Deal in the game and Wrobel happy to have such a skill feel so "awesome" in the game, I'm not sure I see Vampires as egregious offenders being carried by bad resource management.

Lore_lai

Joy_Division wrote: »

Lore_lai wrote: »

@Joy_Division - but Mist is *not* completely shutting down magicka regen, that's the issue.
It's shutting down your Character Sheet regen but you have various other sources of magicka return.

As I have said - Constitution procs, Channeled Focus procs, sets that return magicka on being hit proc.
We're up to "getting no mag regen as per tooltip" as a downside to HERE - have all these procs while in mist.
And the fact that you get strong mitigation, stam regen and hard CC immunity, you can basically see it as converting magicka to stam, while still recovering magicka (and we all know how deadly running out of stam and getting hard CC'd is).

That is my only issue with Mist Form - it allows a certain carry of bad resource management instead of punishing it.

I think you are overestimating how much resource management this provides because heavy armor templars can find ways to get some alternative regen than say light armor players without Rune Focus.

Besides, with Dark Deal in the game and Wrobel happy to have such a skill feel so "awesome" in the game, I'm not sure I see Vampires as egregious offenders being carried by bad resource management.

But that's basically proving my point, no?
1. If I'm overestimating it then removing the resource return wouldn't be that big of an issue anyway and
2. If Constitution is one of the main issues then removing said proc in mist wouldn't hurt light armor because pretty much any LA build is 5-1-1

Also - c'mon - when have you seen a magplar not run rune focus?

Ugh - don't even get me started on Dark Deal

Joy_Division

Lore_lai wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

Lore_lai wrote: »

@Joy_Division - but Mist is *not* completely shutting down magicka regen, that's the issue.
It's shutting down your Character Sheet regen but you have various other sources of magicka return.

As I have said - Constitution procs, Channeled Focus procs, sets that return magicka on being hit proc.
We're up to "getting no mag regen as per tooltip" as a downside to HERE - have all these procs while in mist.
And the fact that you get strong mitigation, stam regen and hard CC immunity, you can basically see it as converting magicka to stam, while still recovering magicka (and we all know how deadly running out of stam and getting hard CC'd is).

That is my only issue with Mist Form - it allows a certain carry of bad resource management instead of punishing it.

I think you are overestimating how much resource management this provides because heavy armor templars can find ways to get some alternative regen than say light armor players without Rune Focus.

Besides, with Dark Deal in the game and Wrobel happy to have such a skill feel so "awesome" in the game, I'm not sure I see Vampires as egregious offenders being carried by bad resource management.

But that's basically proving my point, no?
1. If I'm overestimating it then removing the resource return wouldn't be that big of an issue anyway and
2. If Constitution is one of the main issues then removing said proc in mist wouldn't hurt light armor because pretty much any LA build is 5-1-1

Also - c'mon - when have you seen a magplar not run rune focus?

Ugh - don't even get me started on Dark Deal

Not necessarily.

1. If you are overestimating it, then the alleged imbalance and need for a nerf is not so pressing.
2. Also, your proposal would hurt templars more than the other classes. ZoS gives Templar rune focus 240 regen every second because they believe that a templar needs to have 240 regen every second to be balanced the other classes means of regen (Battle roar, Siphoning, Sorc cost reduction passives, etc). They would not be getting this with such a nerf, whereas say a vamp DK would not have the amount of return reduced on their Leaps.

I don't see much an an issue here. I am also not a big fan of craven zerg-surfing vampires who try to abuse this power as a means of trying to run away after their ineffective attack fails. But since it is poor play rather than than game-breakingly strong, why do we need a huge nerf ... particularly since there are zero alternatives with regard to magicka mobility? A player mist forming away is slower than sprint and I dont care if they are wearing heavy armor or are a templar, their resources are dwindling (and so is their health).

Also, this ability does not come free - you are signing up for 25% damage to fire and a happy host of Dawnbreakers just to slot it. Making is a weak form of bolt escape - without even the means to use it offensively like sorcs can - again would be something that would prompt me to log off in frustration.

Nerfs are something that I don't think should be casually toss about, unless there is a particularly pressing reason for it. If you want to say heavy armor or resource management in general, then I'll agree. Nerfing this ability because of larger issues (as opposed to the ability itself), is not something I'm ready to agree with at this time because I do not find Mist Form particularly troublesome to deal with than say Streak. But that's just my humble perspective.

Joy_Division

DisgracefulMind wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

WillhelmBlack wrote: »

Ron_Burgundy_79 wrote: »

WillhelmBlack wrote: »

Yes Templar lost a slow and hard to target CC and I agree the nerf was uncalled for but saying it's impossible for a Magicka Templar to solo PvP is complete and utter rubbish. In fact, I'm finding my Magplar's damage to be the highest it's ever been. The change to Purifying Light is actually quite over powered and makes 1vX a hell of a lot easier. I just hope they don't nerf that.

So they took away 1 of the 3 CC's available but massively buffed Javelin's speed. Blazing Spear wasn't a fantastic CC anyway, it didn't drop block or CC multiple players and it was hard AF to actually hit someone with.

I'd bet money they ain't gonna change it back. I wouldn't keep pestering or get your hopes up.

Please post evidence of said "1vX."

Blazing spear was the most reliable cc we had. That's the overwhelming consensus within the Templar community. That's not my opinion. Ask our fellow forum magplars. @Joy_Division @utb99 @LordSlif

Increasing the speed of javelin didn't help with shuffle procs or reflects. Anyone worth a damn will still block or dodge it.

I will continue to complain about this change until it's fixed or I quit the game. Unfotunately for the minority that disagree with me om this topic, neither are likely to happen anytime soon.

I guess it's preference then. I was a Blazing Spear spammer (just ask anyone PC EU haha) but the change to Javelin honestly IMO has made a 1v1/1vX a little easier. I keep it on my back bar (get the blocking passive) for a quick weapon swap cancel and the speed it hits in close range is incredible and almost guaranteed. DK's can reflect but most DK's don't use wings anymore, it's easy to tell early on in a fight any way and not hard to keep check on.

We have tools to beat DK's besides Javelin. Purifying Light, Sweep, RD, superior mag sustain and Ritual. In our guild duels I lost to over 75% of the Templars I fought on my DK because of Purifying Ritual alone. There was no answer to it. On MY Templar I beat all of them bar one guy who is a keen duellist and also a Templar main.

The good thing about Blazing Spear was chucking them into zergs and it couldn't be reflected but it was clunky, the stun was RNG, you couldn't throw the spear off a damn ledge, it ended up in your foot! I prefer the buffed Javelin and you can throw people OFF a ledge as a nice bonus!

I only know of Joy Division but I bet the the other two haven't even played Magicka Templar for as long as I have. I'd also even go as far to say they are probably bias Templar mains. I don't know, all I can say is, maybe it is just personal preference. I see a lot more Templars doing well on their own or as a pair nowadays compared to 1 or 2 years ago and having a lot of fun while they're at it.

I don't think a skilled DK player should die to a templar. Yes, templars can screw over DKs with purify; but let's just take a second to analyze what's going on with a Purify spamming Templar:

I disagree completely here, Joy. In a duel with Magplar vs. MagDK, I've only lost to skilled MagDKs very few times. It's very easy to keep pressure on them while keeping extended ritual in a rotation to make sure they can't keep DoTs on you. With timed burst, they'll drop relatively quickly. The key in a magplar vs. magdk duel is to make them think they have the upperhand the entire time until your burst is lined up. It's been rare that I've lost to magDKs, even quite skilled ones that I have the utmost respect for. It's just easy to keep their pressure off of you, and easy for you to fool them into thinking you don't have pressure on them (:

Bee, are you suggesting Purify is too strong? If it's just easy for your templar to handle a skilled mDK in a duel, a class spec that is purported to be very strong in duels on these forums, then perhaps we templar players should not object to calls for nerfs, no?

utb99

ZoS should let all our Golden Aura and abilities morph us to Super Saiyans.

Ron_Burgundy_79

utb99 wrote: »

ZoS should let all our Golden Aura and abilities morph us to Super Saiyans.

Sounds good to me

utb99

Gotta farm Overwhelming Surge to get ssj2 now

Ron_Burgundy_79

Looks like we'll be going another 4-6 months without a reliable cc along with our passive being reduced to minor mending. Thanks for another 4-6 months of being relegated to the group/zerg healer in pvp.

@Wrobel @ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_JessicaFolsom @ZOS_RichLambert @ZOS_BrianWheeler

technohic

technohic wrote: »

ScooberSteve wrote: »

The reason we get no buffs is because we get to stand there all day and spam BOL

Yeah and I think that's always been a reason I've lost interest in the class. It's not what I want to do; but given it's the strength of the class, everything else is going to be lackluster. I'm afraid even that is going to be a big target come arenas. Eventually the whining about healing will bring even more PVP healing reduction (already is with major heal debuffs coming more common) so there will be at least one cycle where healin will be down and none of the other Templar weaknesses will be addressed.

That's coming sooner than I expected

Glamdring

Ron_Burgundy_79 wrote: »

Looks like we'll be going another 4-6 months without a reliable cc along with our passive being reduced to minor mending. Thanks for another 4-6 months of being relegated to the group/zerg healer in pvp.

@Wrobel @ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_JessicaFolsom @ZOS_RichLambert @ZOS_BrianWheeler

Atleast u can use it in pvp, stamnb brings nothing to a group and solo is impossible with sustain changes and another nerf to ganking. Time to buy a big stack of coldfire ballistas and trebuchets. Thats the only use i see for a stam nb this patch

Lore_lai

@Wrobel
Another update - another disappointment.

Wrobel wrote: »

[*] There is currently an issue with Luminous Shards right now we’re looking to fix where Burning Light can proc and immediately remove the disorient.

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/3762292/#Comment_3762292
Shards breaks on its own damage component, BTW, so not only on Burning Light. The CC attached to it needs to be redesigned and when on Nirn are you going to do it? 2 years from now?
I *want* to use Luminous now but I *won't* because you keep it broken CC wise.

So much for - oh no worries guys, Morrowind update will bring lots of good stuff for Templar. Yeah, right.
Keep on nerfing but never fixing the issues we have and keep on removing our class individuality.

If it worries you so much that Templar is the most desired One and Only class to heal (it's not - people are just lazy) then how about you ask yourself why DK is the One and Only class to tank and End Game raiders would laugh if you'd tank with anything else than DK.
How about you pull out those charts hmm?

Ron_Burgundy_79

Day #52 since this thread was started and still no answer. You've ignored us yet again @Wrobel

1. When will the luminous shards cc be fixed?
2. Major mending should be returned to magplars. The change to minor mending is asinine.
3. The changes to repentance and shards/spear sustain are overkill.

@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_JessicaFolsom @ZOS_RichLambert @ZOS_BrianWheeler

PLEASE HELP

cc: @Deltia @Alcast @FENGRUSH @Sypher @Velukodi @Blobsky

Ron_Burgundy_79

Day #62 of this thread. Will we get an update on ESO live today? Will luminous shards be fixed? Will you reimplement the stun on blazing spear? At the very least, we deserve an update.

@Wrobel @ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_JessicaFolsom @ZOS_RichLambert @ZOS_BrianWheeler

Ron_Burgundy_79

Day #66

@Wrobel the dev comments are enlightening. The cc options you listed for templars are situational at best, and none of them synergize with our templar house. The change to javelin is horrible. An enemy hit with a javelin at point blank range will be pushed out of the range of puncturing sweeps. This would be fine if you just returned the stun to blazing spear.

Solution: remove the increased damage to blazing spear and re-implement the old hard cc

Justification: Javelin and toppling charge do not synergize at all with the templar house. Javelin pushes enemies outside of sweeps range and toppling charge will force Templars off of our static defensive buff. Blazing spear would allow Templars to control enemies that decide to enter our house.
At this point in time, luminous will be the only morph used because of the new and improved changes to the synergy. Returning the hard cc to blazing spear would make both morphs competitive.

@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_JessicaFolsom @ZOS_RichLambert @ZOS_BrianWheeler

@Joy_Division @utb99 @austinwalter87ub17_ESO @Dread_Knight_N7

texassob

Day #73

Still nothing!?! Lets introduce a new class (which im all for) warden but make templars have play the class to gain everything they are losing. Templar mains are being buried more and more with every patch. Killed in PVP and PVE. Why no response or reasoning after so long still? Wheres the community support? Is a little insight or response too much to ask for after months?

@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_JessicaFolsom @ZOS_RichLambert @ZOS_BrianWheeler @Ron_Burgundy_79 @Dread_Knight_N7