ESO Hates Stamina Builds Please Fix this ZOS

Edziu

Anhedonie wrote: »

Stamina is better than magicka in every aspect except for aoe.
The only downsides are: you need to have good situation awareness (l2p guys), skill set is fairly the same, you need vMA weapons on this patch for Trials.

Also, stamina has:
-Bow
-DW
-2handed
-1h and shield
-Stamina class morphs
-Better sustain
-Better single target damage
-Immunity to silence effects like negate

bow - only dot, main dps is just ***
DW - only weapon to true dps
2handed - pvp only, pve it suck
1h&s - tank or pvp, its not to dps
stamina class morphs, maybe 3-4 morphs per all class skills?
better single target damage - after this patch I dont see more difference in sine target damage between stamina and magica build while magice still ahve insane aoe dps
immunity to silenece effects - yes, this our only afvaantage over magica build

and to vMA weapons..this is just sad, without those weapons stamina dont have chance to be compare to any dps situationw ith magica, magica have great dps without be forced to farm vMA weapons while stamina is forced to have atleast duals from vMA to be comparable with just single target dps with magica build, this is sad

Integral1900

I did use a stam sorc for a little while, it was a total turkey shoot in most content but I missed going full sith, with lightning all over the place, also I hate dual wield, it just doesn't have the sense of impact that I get from two handed or sword and shield.

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO

Edziu wrote: »

SnubbS wrote: »

ESO only hates the Stam builds that don't come equipped with a class spammable.

stablade and stamplar with class spammable stamina skill, worst dps ever in game, stam dk and stam sorc without class spammable, only some dots - the best stam dps

kyle.wilson wrote: »

I guess we are starting to see how many players were getting significant amounts of DPS from proc sets. Cause that's the only major change in this update.
Plus some people are finally learning how to kill the do nothing block tanks in pvp.

so overall nerf to stamina dps very significant by beast trap nerf, overal huge buff to magica build by staves

nerf to dk standard which will feel this nerf stam dk, mag dk got buff in other skill for recompensate this nerf

nb got cost increase for incap strike which was very nice spammable ulti, especially on finishers, now I cant spam enought often with this, before finishers its now much less usable, better to keep ulti for just dawnbreaker in mostly sitations and on finishers on trial fights you will spam maybe 2-3x this ult instead of 5 which is again dps loss (this is also nerf to magblade ofc)

stamplar? ehh next patch still not existing dead class

sstamsorc..I dont know, I never played this but people complaining hurricane got nerf ot atleast in dps is without changes while mag sorc got haunting curse to easier rotation, buff to pets to buff dps


and now I dont see any adventage in stamina in pve

I as stambled, playing on this nonstop while I pulling 40-45k dps on triall boss pure single target then mag dk is pulling over 55k pure single target dps, mag sorc 50k single target and add to this aoe, I as stmina will get with 2 adds maybe just 2-3k additional aoe by only endless hail? while mag builds have 3+ and more aoe skill which can add more than 6k+ additional dps with just 1-2 adds

Edziu wrote: »

Anhedonie wrote: »

Stamina is better than magicka in every aspect except for aoe.
The only downsides are: you need to have good situation awareness (l2p guys), skill set is fairly the same, you need vMA weapons on this patch for Trials.

Also, stamina has:
-Bow
-DW
-2handed
-1h and shield
-Stamina class morphs
-Better sustain
-Better single target damage
-Immunity to silence effects like negate

bow - only dot, main dps is just ***
DW - only weapon to true dps
2handed - pvp only, pve it suck
1h&s - tank or pvp, its not to dps
stamina class morphs, maybe 3-4 morphs per all class skills?
better single target damage - after this patch I dont see more difference in sine target damage between stamina and magica build while magice still ahve insane aoe dps
immunity to silenece effects - yes, this our only afvaantage over magica build

and to vMA weapons..this is just sad, without those weapons stamina dont have chance to be compare to any dps situationw ith magica, magica have great dps without be forced to farm vMA weapons while stamina is forced to have atleast duals from vMA to be comparable with just single target dps with magica build, this is sad

Please use periods and proper punctuation, it makes my head hurt to read your comments and totally undermines whatever you are trying to say if you don't even put effort into it.

Ep1kMalware

Edziu wrote: »

SnubbS wrote: »

ESO only hates the Stam builds that don't come equipped with a class spammable.

stablade and stamplar with class spammable stamina skill, worst dps ever in game, stam dk and stam sorc without class spammable, only some dots - the best stam dps

kyle.wilson wrote: »

I guess we are starting to see how many players were getting significant amounts of DPS from proc sets. Cause that's the only major change in this update.
Plus some people are finally learning how to kill the do nothing block tanks in pvp.

so overall nerf to stamina dps very significant by beast trap nerf, overal huge buff to magica build by staves

nerf to dk standard which will feel this nerf stam dk, mag dk got buff in other skill for recompensate this nerf

nb got cost increase for incap strike which was very nice spammable ulti, especially on finishers, now I cant spam enought often with this, before finishers its now much less usable, better to keep ulti for just dawnbreaker in mostly sitations and on finishers on trial fights you will spam maybe 2-3x this ult instead of 5 which is again dps loss (this is also nerf to magblade ofc)

stamplar? ehh next patch still not existing dead class

sstamsorc..I dont know, I never played this but people complaining hurricane got nerf ot atleast in dps is without changes while mag sorc got haunting curse to easier rotation, buff to pets to buff dps


and now I dont see any adventage in stamina in pve

I as stambled, playing on this nonstop while I pulling 40-45k dps on triall boss pure single target then mag dk is pulling over 55k pure single target dps, mag sorc 50k single target and add to this aoe, I as stmina will get with 2 adds maybe just 2-3k additional aoe by only endless hail? while mag builds have 3+ and more aoe skill which can add more than 6k+ additional dps with just 1-2 adds

Stamplar is BEAST dps. Though I've noticed not many people play the class well at all. You just empower your dots with flurry, then you get those sexy jabs. Repeat. Templars get amazing passives and a very strong dps skill. But just spamming jabs is such bad dps.

Also very very rarely see people weaving between jabs.

Again it's not the classes that suck, it's the people that play them. If you suck at playing stam dk there's no chance in hell you'll do well on a stamplar with a harder rotation and more difficult sustain.

Edziu

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

Edziu wrote: »

SnubbS wrote: »

ESO only hates the Stam builds that don't come equipped with a class spammable.

stablade and stamplar with class spammable stamina skill, worst dps ever in game, stam dk and stam sorc without class spammable, only some dots - the best stam dps

kyle.wilson wrote: »

I guess we are starting to see how many players were getting significant amounts of DPS from proc sets. Cause that's the only major change in this update.
Plus some people are finally learning how to kill the do nothing block tanks in pvp.

so overall nerf to stamina dps very significant by beast trap nerf, overal huge buff to magica build by staves

nerf to dk standard which will feel this nerf stam dk, mag dk got buff in other skill for recompensate this nerf

nb got cost increase for incap strike which was very nice spammable ulti, especially on finishers, now I cant spam enought often with this, before finishers its now much less usable, better to keep ulti for just dawnbreaker in mostly sitations and on finishers on trial fights you will spam maybe 2-3x this ult instead of 5 which is again dps loss (this is also nerf to magblade ofc)

stamplar? ehh next patch still not existing dead class

sstamsorc..I dont know, I never played this but people complaining hurricane got nerf ot atleast in dps is without changes while mag sorc got haunting curse to easier rotation, buff to pets to buff dps


and now I dont see any adventage in stamina in pve

I as stambled, playing on this nonstop while I pulling 40-45k dps on triall boss pure single target then mag dk is pulling over 55k pure single target dps, mag sorc 50k single target and add to this aoe, I as stmina will get with 2 adds maybe just 2-3k additional aoe by only endless hail? while mag builds have 3+ and more aoe skill which can add more than 6k+ additional dps with just 1-2 adds

Edziu wrote: »

Anhedonie wrote: »

Stamina is better than magicka in every aspect except for aoe.
The only downsides are: you need to have good situation awareness (l2p guys), skill set is fairly the same, you need vMA weapons on this patch for Trials.

Also, stamina has:
-Bow
-DW
-2handed
-1h and shield
-Stamina class morphs
-Better sustain
-Better single target damage
-Immunity to silence effects like negate

bow - only dot, main dps is just ***
DW - only weapon to true dps
2handed - pvp only, pve it suck
1h&s - tank or pvp, its not to dps
stamina class morphs, maybe 3-4 morphs per all class skills?
better single target damage - after this patch I dont see more difference in sine target damage between stamina and magica build while magice still ahve insane aoe dps
immunity to silenece effects - yes, this our only afvaantage over magica build

and to vMA weapons..this is just sad, without those weapons stamina dont have chance to be compare to any dps situationw ith magica, magica have great dps without be forced to farm vMA weapons while stamina is forced to have atleast duals from vMA to be comparable with just single target dps with magica build, this is sad

Please use periods and proper punctuation, it makes my head hurt to read your comments and totally undermines whatever you are trying to say if you don't even put effort into it.

I dont understand what you mean,.,,,if you cant see it stamina have nothing today to do better than magica as in pve

skill lines? only 2 wepaon skill lines usable and only 2 skills from this 1 skill line and just those few stamina morphs from class skills

now magica got mre buffs and stamina nothing than nerfs, before this patch stamina had just small better dps in single target while magica was instane aoe damage and grear survivability, now magica and stmaina are on par with sinelge target dps and in most cases magica have much better this dps in every way than half classes on stamina build

magica have every class skill to use, myabe hav eonly 2 weapon skill line whiel stamina have 4 skill lines...but what with it if only 2 skill lines are usable to dps in pve? I dont any advantage in stamina over magica in pve, maybe only vMA which is other story for solo play

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO

Edziu wrote: »

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

Edziu wrote: »

SnubbS wrote: »

ESO only hates the Stam builds that don't come equipped with a class spammable.

stablade and stamplar with class spammable stamina skill, worst dps ever in game, stam dk and stam sorc without class spammable, only some dots - the best stam dps

kyle.wilson wrote: »

I guess we are starting to see how many players were getting significant amounts of DPS from proc sets. Cause that's the only major change in this update.
Plus some people are finally learning how to kill the do nothing block tanks in pvp.

so overall nerf to stamina dps very significant by beast trap nerf, overal huge buff to magica build by staves

nerf to dk standard which will feel this nerf stam dk, mag dk got buff in other skill for recompensate this nerf

nb got cost increase for incap strike which was very nice spammable ulti, especially on finishers, now I cant spam enought often with this, before finishers its now much less usable, better to keep ulti for just dawnbreaker in mostly sitations and on finishers on trial fights you will spam maybe 2-3x this ult instead of 5 which is again dps loss (this is also nerf to magblade ofc)

stamplar? ehh next patch still not existing dead class

sstamsorc..I dont know, I never played this but people complaining hurricane got nerf ot atleast in dps is without changes while mag sorc got haunting curse to easier rotation, buff to pets to buff dps


and now I dont see any adventage in stamina in pve

I as stambled, playing on this nonstop while I pulling 40-45k dps on triall boss pure single target then mag dk is pulling over 55k pure single target dps, mag sorc 50k single target and add to this aoe, I as stmina will get with 2 adds maybe just 2-3k additional aoe by only endless hail? while mag builds have 3+ and more aoe skill which can add more than 6k+ additional dps with just 1-2 adds

Edziu wrote: »

Anhedonie wrote: »

Stamina is better than magicka in every aspect except for aoe.
The only downsides are: you need to have good situation awareness (l2p guys), skill set is fairly the same, you need vMA weapons on this patch for Trials.

Also, stamina has:
-Bow
-DW
-2handed
-1h and shield
-Stamina class morphs
-Better sustain
-Better single target damage
-Immunity to silence effects like negate

bow - only dot, main dps is just ***
DW - only weapon to true dps
2handed - pvp only, pve it suck
1h&s - tank or pvp, its not to dps
stamina class morphs, maybe 3-4 morphs per all class skills?
better single target damage - after this patch I dont see more difference in sine target damage between stamina and magica build while magice still ahve insane aoe dps
immunity to silenece effects - yes, this our only afvaantage over magica build

and to vMA weapons..this is just sad, without those weapons stamina dont have chance to be compare to any dps situationw ith magica, magica have great dps without be forced to farm vMA weapons while stamina is forced to have atleast duals from vMA to be comparable with just single target dps with magica build, this is sad

Please use periods and proper punctuation, it makes my head hurt to read your comments and totally undermines whatever you are trying to say if you don't even put effort into it.

I don't understand what you mean,.,,,if you cant see it stamina have nothing today to do better than magica as in pve

skill lines? only 2 wepaon skill lines usable and only 2 skills from this 1 skill line and just those few stamina morphs from class skills

now magica got mre buffs and stamina nothing than nerfs, before this patch stamina had just small better dps in single target while magica was instane aoe damage and grear survivability, now magica and stmaina are on par with sinelge target dps and in most cases magica have much better this dps in every way than half classes on stamina build

magica have every class skill to use, myabe hav eonly 2 weapon skill line whiel stamina have 4 skill lines...but what with it if only 2 skill lines are usable to dps in pve? I dont any advantage in stamina over magica in pve, maybe only vMA which is other story for solo play

What I mean is that I stopped reading after the bolded because you are not using punctuation. You clearly are not putting in effort to what you are posting so why should I try to decipher what you are saying?

Huyen

I'm actually mournfull to admit, but I changed to magicka again, because stamina-builds in pve are just not viable in longer fights, or fights that have *** mechanics up close...

Bobby_V_Rockit

Indeed

waterfairy

If this were true then why would they make a sorcerer (who by definition should be pure magic) have strong stamina morphs?

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO

Vigarr wrote: »

If this were true then why would they make a sorcerer (who by definition should be pure magic) have strong stamina morphs?

This is simply not true, going by the lore of previous elder scrolls games

http://en.uesp.net/wiki/Oblivion:Classes#Standard_Classes

Spacifically


Sorcerer

Besting the most well-equipped fighters, they rely on the spells of the mystic arts. Unique to these mages is the bodily stamina to be armed with the thickest armor.

waterfairy

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

Vigarr wrote: »

If this were true then why would they make a sorcerer (who by definition should be pure magic) have strong stamina morphs?

This is simply not true, going by the lore of previous elder scrolls games

http://en.uesp.net/wiki/Oblivion:Classes#Standard_Classes

Spacifically


Sorcerer

Besting the most well-equipped fighters, they rely on the spells of the mystic arts. Unique to these mages is the bodily stamina to be armed with the thickest armor.

That's just a fancy way of saying that they use heavy armor, none of their spells used stamina like in eso.

Ocelot9x

hmsdragonfly wrote: »

LorDrek wrote: »

hmsdragonfly wrote: »

Zuboko wrote: »

And in the end we still have this one question "If I am going to build a stamina based character, why can't I have a class that perfectly fits my chosen build?"

All classes perfectly fit for building stam characters.

Please name a class that you cannot build a stam character with.

Stam dk, i use only 1 skill, 1 ultimate. Other is crap.

Next time you are wrecking blown, or viper'd in the face by a stamdk, remind yourself that you get rekt by the worst stam class in the game.

L2stamdk.

L2stamdk? Because viper and wrecking blow are DK"skills". In PvP stam dk uses just take flight as a damage ability,and occasionally burning breath

daedalusAI

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

Edziu wrote: »

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

Edziu wrote: »

SnubbS wrote: »

ESO only hates the Stam builds that don't come equipped with a class spammable.

stablade and stamplar with class spammable stamina skill, worst dps ever in game, stam dk and stam sorc without class spammable, only some dots - the best stam dps

kyle.wilson wrote: »

I guess we are starting to see how many players were getting significant amounts of DPS from proc sets. Cause that's the only major change in this update.
Plus some people are finally learning how to kill the do nothing block tanks in pvp.

so overall nerf to stamina dps very significant by beast trap nerf, overal huge buff to magica build by staves

nerf to dk standard which will feel this nerf stam dk, mag dk got buff in other skill for recompensate this nerf

nb got cost increase for incap strike which was very nice spammable ulti, especially on finishers, now I cant spam enought often with this, before finishers its now much less usable, better to keep ulti for just dawnbreaker in mostly sitations and on finishers on trial fights you will spam maybe 2-3x this ult instead of 5 which is again dps loss (this is also nerf to magblade ofc)

stamplar? ehh next patch still not existing dead class

sstamsorc..I dont know, I never played this but people complaining hurricane got nerf ot atleast in dps is without changes while mag sorc got haunting curse to easier rotation, buff to pets to buff dps


and now I dont see any adventage in stamina in pve

I as stambled, playing on this nonstop while I pulling 40-45k dps on triall boss pure single target then mag dk is pulling over 55k pure single target dps, mag sorc 50k single target and add to this aoe, I as stmina will get with 2 adds maybe just 2-3k additional aoe by only endless hail? while mag builds have 3+ and more aoe skill which can add more than 6k+ additional dps with just 1-2 adds

Edziu wrote: »

Anhedonie wrote: »

Stamina is better than magicka in every aspect except for aoe.
The only downsides are: you need to have good situation awareness (l2p guys), skill set is fairly the same, you need vMA weapons on this patch for Trials.

Also, stamina has:
-Bow
-DW
-2handed
-1h and shield
-Stamina class morphs
-Better sustain
-Better single target damage
-Immunity to silence effects like negate

bow - only dot, main dps is just ***
DW - only weapon to true dps
2handed - pvp only, pve it suck
1h&s - tank or pvp, its not to dps
stamina class morphs, maybe 3-4 morphs per all class skills?
better single target damage - after this patch I dont see more difference in sine target damage between stamina and magica build while magice still ahve insane aoe dps
immunity to silenece effects - yes, this our only afvaantage over magica build

and to vMA weapons..this is just sad, without those weapons stamina dont have chance to be compare to any dps situationw ith magica, magica have great dps without be forced to farm vMA weapons while stamina is forced to have atleast duals from vMA to be comparable with just single target dps with magica build, this is sad

Please use periods and proper punctuation, it makes my head hurt to read your comments and totally undermines whatever you are trying to say if you don't even put effort into it.

I don't understand what you mean,.,,,if you cant see it stamina have nothing today to do better than magica as in pve

skill lines? only 2 wepaon skill lines usable and only 2 skills from this 1 skill line and just those few stamina morphs from class skills

now magica got mre buffs and stamina nothing than nerfs, before this patch stamina had just small better dps in single target while magica was instane aoe damage and grear survivability, now magica and stmaina are on par with sinelge target dps and in most cases magica have much better this dps in every way than half classes on stamina build

magica have every class skill to use, myabe hav eonly 2 weapon skill line whiel stamina have 4 skill lines...but what with it if only 2 skill lines are usable to dps in pve? I dont any advantage in stamina over magica in pve, maybe only vMA which is other story for solo play

What I mean is that I stopped reading after the bolded because you are not using punctuation. You clearly are not putting in effort to what you are posting so why should I try to decipher what you are saying?

Quite the hypocrite - aren't you.
I find it amusing that you even bothered to write a comment if you're this offended by his missing punctuation.

On topic: those few weapon lines are a joke.
1 weapon line for magicka dps, 1 line for healing.
3 weapon lines for stamina dps - of which 2h is utterly useless.
1 weapon line for tanking.

That's it.

LorDrek

daedalusAI wrote: »

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

Edziu wrote: »

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

Edziu wrote: »

SnubbS wrote: »

ESO only hates the Stam builds that don't come equipped with a class spammable.

stablade and stamplar with class spammable stamina skill, worst dps ever in game, stam dk and stam sorc without class spammable, only some dots - the best stam dps

kyle.wilson wrote: »

I guess we are starting to see how many players were getting significant amounts of DPS from proc sets. Cause that's the only major change in this update.
Plus some people are finally learning how to kill the do nothing block tanks in pvp.

so overall nerf to stamina dps very significant by beast trap nerf, overal huge buff to magica build by staves

nerf to dk standard which will feel this nerf stam dk, mag dk got buff in other skill for recompensate this nerf

nb got cost increase for incap strike which was very nice spammable ulti, especially on finishers, now I cant spam enought often with this, before finishers its now much less usable, better to keep ulti for just dawnbreaker in mostly sitations and on finishers on trial fights you will spam maybe 2-3x this ult instead of 5 which is again dps loss (this is also nerf to magblade ofc)

stamplar? ehh next patch still not existing dead class

sstamsorc..I dont know, I never played this but people complaining hurricane got nerf ot atleast in dps is without changes while mag sorc got haunting curse to easier rotation, buff to pets to buff dps


and now I dont see any adventage in stamina in pve

I as stambled, playing on this nonstop while I pulling 40-45k dps on triall boss pure single target then mag dk is pulling over 55k pure single target dps, mag sorc 50k single target and add to this aoe, I as stmina will get with 2 adds maybe just 2-3k additional aoe by only endless hail? while mag builds have 3+ and more aoe skill which can add more than 6k+ additional dps with just 1-2 adds

Edziu wrote: »

Anhedonie wrote: »

Stamina is better than magicka in every aspect except for aoe.
The only downsides are: you need to have good situation awareness (l2p guys), skill set is fairly the same, you need vMA weapons on this patch for Trials.

Also, stamina has:
-Bow
-DW
-2handed
-1h and shield
-Stamina class morphs
-Better sustain
-Better single target damage
-Immunity to silence effects like negate

bow - only dot, main dps is just ***
DW - only weapon to true dps
2handed - pvp only, pve it suck
1h&s - tank or pvp, its not to dps
stamina class morphs, maybe 3-4 morphs per all class skills?
better single target damage - after this patch I dont see more difference in sine target damage between stamina and magica build while magice still ahve insane aoe dps
immunity to silenece effects - yes, this our only afvaantage over magica build

and to vMA weapons..this is just sad, without those weapons stamina dont have chance to be compare to any dps situationw ith magica, magica have great dps without be forced to farm vMA weapons while stamina is forced to have atleast duals from vMA to be comparable with just single target dps with magica build, this is sad

Please use periods and proper punctuation, it makes my head hurt to read your comments and totally undermines whatever you are trying to say if you don't even put effort into it.

I don't understand what you mean,.,,,if you cant see it stamina have nothing today to do better than magica as in pve

skill lines? only 2 wepaon skill lines usable and only 2 skills from this 1 skill line and just those few stamina morphs from class skills

now magica got mre buffs and stamina nothing than nerfs, before this patch stamina had just small better dps in single target while magica was instane aoe damage and grear survivability, now magica and stmaina are on par with sinelge target dps and in most cases magica have much better this dps in every way than half classes on stamina build

magica have every class skill to use, myabe hav eonly 2 weapon skill line whiel stamina have 4 skill lines...but what with it if only 2 skill lines are usable to dps in pve? I dont any advantage in stamina over magica in pve, maybe only vMA which is other story for solo play

What I mean is that I stopped reading after the bolded because you are not using punctuation. You clearly are not putting in effort to what you are posting so why should I try to decipher what you are saying?

Quite the hypocrite - aren't you.
I find it amusing that you even bothered to write a comment if you're this offended by his missing punctuation.

On topic: those few weapon lines are a joke.
1 weapon line for magicka dps, 1 line for healing.
3 weapon lines for stamina dps - of which 2h is utterly useless.
1 weapon line for tanking.

That's it.

All says 3 weapon line, how many class skills Is for stamina?

hmsdragonfly

Ocelot9x wrote: »

hmsdragonfly wrote: »

LorDrek wrote: »

hmsdragonfly wrote: »

Zuboko wrote: »

And in the end we still have this one question "If I am going to build a stamina based character, why can't I have a class that perfectly fits my chosen build?"

All classes perfectly fit for building stam characters.

Please name a class that you cannot build a stam character with.

Stam dk, i use only 1 skill, 1 ultimate. Other is crap.

Next time you are wrecking blown, or viper'd in the face by a stamdk, remind yourself that you get rekt by the worst stam class in the game.

L2stamdk.

L2stamdk? Because viper and wrecking blow are DK"skills". In PvP stam dk uses just take flight as a damage ability,and occasionally burning breath

Yeah so what? What's wrong with a stamdk using weapons? Or should ZOS remove all the weapons from the game?

ADarklore

Without reading through four pages, suffice it to say that people complain that class skills are mostly all Magicka... yet I don't hear people complaining that almost all weapons are Stamina. Players have a choice, either utilize class skills as Magicka, or use weapon skills as Stamina... but a Stamina player should not have BOTH class skills AND weapons skills while Magicka players then have only class skills. And, NO, ESO doesn't have enough resources to give both Magicka or Stamina options for each and every skill/weapon. ESO is about making CHOICES while playing within the limiting structure that the game offers.

Edziu

ADarklore wrote: »

Without reading through four pages, suffice it to say that people complain that class skills are mostly all Magicka... yet I don't hear people complaining that almost all weapons are Stamina. Players have a choice, either utilize class skills as Magicka, or use weapon skills as Stamina... but a Stamina player should not have BOTH class skills AND weapons skills while Magicka players then have only class skills. And, NO, ESO doesn't have enough resources to give both Magicka or Stamina options for each and every skill/weapon. ESO is about making CHOICES while playing within the limiting structure that the game offers.

you are some wrong...mainly people complain because stamina is pretty useless for pve.....yes, you can complete everything with stamina but magica bill do it much much better and faster than stamina and complain about class skills is just on the way to complain about it and to about skill and weapon skills...magica have 3 class skill lines and 1 weapon skill line to dps while stamina have only 2-4 class skills and 2 weapon skill lines so magica have almost 2 more skills to choose

Anti_Virus

hmsdragonfly wrote: »

LorDrek wrote: »

hmsdragonfly wrote: »

Zuboko wrote: »

And in the end we still have this one question "If I am going to build a stamina based character, why can't I have a class that perfectly fits my chosen build?"

All classes perfectly fit for building stam characters.

Please name a class that you cannot build a stam character with.

Stam dk, i use only 1 skill, 1 ultimate. Other is crap.

Next time you are wrecking blown, or viper'd in the face by a stamdk, remind yourself that you get rekt by the worst stam class in the game.

L2stamdk.

Not every stam DK runs proc sets, try again

Duiwel

OP I think stamina is fine apart from one thing DK inhale needs a stamina morph too or at leas something that scales off stam for damage.

Shadzilla

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/312992/why-are-stamina-setups-bad-for-trials-pve/p9

Shadzilla

Stamina is trash for anything PVE except vma and dsa. Any decent end game trial runner knows this, its very common knowledge.

Chilly-McFreeze

Edziu wrote: »

ADarklore wrote: »

Without reading through four pages, suffice it to say that people complain that class skills are mostly all Magicka... yet I don't hear people complaining that almost all weapons are Stamina. Players have a choice, either utilize class skills as Magicka, or use weapon skills as Stamina... but a Stamina player should not have BOTH class skills AND weapons skills while Magicka players then have only class skills. And, NO, ESO doesn't have enough resources to give both Magicka or Stamina options for each and every skill/weapon. ESO is about making CHOICES while playing within the limiting structure that the game offers.

you are some wrong...mainly people complain because stamina is pretty useless for pve.....yes, you can complete everything with stamina but magica bill do it much much better and faster than stamina and complain about class skills is just on the way to complain about it and to about skill and weapon skills...magica have 3 class skill lines and 1 weapon skill line to dps while stamina have only 2-4 class skills and 2 weapon skill lines so magica have almost 2 more skills to choose

I can't understand how people say "stamina is useless" and then continue with "you can complete everything with stamina". Maybe you should look up what useless means. For the last half year stamina was so much better than magicka, now the tables have turned because the last patch was bad for stamina while mag get some love. DW nerf (which costs you how much w.dmg buffed and unbuffed? Was 3% less from offhand, right? Costs maybe 100 wpn.dmg) and the nerf on Trap beast damage - but don't forget that the changes to minor/ major force affects magicka players as well. Maybe it soothes you that the next balance patch will definitly come and maybe the favour changes then too.

@daedalusAI

I beg to differ.
Stam wants PVE dmg - go dual wield. It's great. Great spam, great aoe, good utility, nice dot - meele and 1 ranged + great ult
Stam wants PVP dmg - go 2h - great gap closer, huge burst potential, great execute, great utility in buffs and heals - meele + gc
Stam wants to go tank - go SnB - best tank skill line in the game, isn't it? - meele
Stam needs backbar - go bow - great DoT, great, AoEs, nice utilty in buffs and decent cc - ranged

Mag wants Single Target Dmg - Go Destruction staff - okayish but costly spam, great aoe, good utlity - flames - ranged - great ult
Mag wants AoE - Go same skill line - lightning - ranged
Mag wants to go tank - again the same skill line - *** tank line compared to SnB, right? That's 3 purposes with only one skillline to chose. Get it?
Mag wants backbar - go resto staff - absolutly NO DAMAGE here but great utility - ult seems to be ***

No meele for magicka through weapons.

I don't see which weapon skill line is a joke. Sure, you won't use SnB for a DD but it definitly isn't useless, everything has it's purpose. Again, maybe you too should look that word up.

Stam wants Buff from class - can freely use the otherwise useless mag pool to buff -> see, you can use class skills

Let me list you the the few oh so bad stam skills from classes:

-Biting Jabs
-Blinding Javeline
-Power of the light
-Venomous Claws
-Noxious Breath
-Killer's Blade
-Ambush
-Surprise Attack
-Power Extraction
-Bound Armaments
-Hurricane

Almost every skill is great. Now should I tell you how many DAMAGE skills magicka has in all their weapon skill lines combined: 4 + 1 Ultimate. The resto staff magickas have to slot is absolutly damage free, so forcing magickas even more into the destro line, especially sorcerers since they don't even have a class spam. And don't try to sugarcoat your argument by don't even acknowledging the fact that Stamina chars can use magicka buffs/debuffs etc. too without any drawback for them.

And don't get me started on proc sets.

hmsdragonfly

Anti_Virus wrote: »

hmsdragonfly wrote: »

LorDrek wrote: »

hmsdragonfly wrote: »

Zuboko wrote: »

And in the end we still have this one question "If I am going to build a stamina based character, why can't I have a class that perfectly fits my chosen build?"

All classes perfectly fit for building stam characters.

Please name a class that you cannot build a stam character with.

Stam dk, i use only 1 skill, 1 ultimate. Other is crap.

Next time you are wrecking blown, or viper'd in the face by a stamdk, remind yourself that you get rekt by the worst stam class in the game.

L2stamdk.

Not every stam DK runs proc sets, try again

I put wrecking blow (dizzly swing) there for a reason. Plus, it's just an example of many things a stamdk can use to kill you. Or should I list everything a stamdk uses to kill people?

Edziu

@Chilly-McFreeze
dont get me wrong..maybe last half year stamina was just better to single target dps, with rest magica was still better while in 1st 2 year magica was the best for everything, then we got last half year where stamina was viable to pve and again magica is the best to everythinh

class skill which you mentioned...did you took it into consideration these class stamina skill are only 2-3 per class usable in pve? you mentioned about those 11 skills where you need split them between classes

for Templar - jabs, power of the light and javelin(which ist usable in pve dps)
for DK - venom claw and nox breath
for NB - killers blade, surpise attack and ambush(useless in pve dps) and power extraction (whaat?also not much usable skill)
and Sorc - bound armaments and hurricane

now you have just 2 class skills usable in pve dps per class
wwith this patch stamina got not huge nerf but magica got so huge buff in staves which have done bigger gap between stamina and amgica aoe dps and just negated gap in single target dps between stam and mag dps and survivability is without changes, mag still have thei nice damage shield with which you can survive hit up to 30k total whiel deadly cloak wont help you to survive this hit if its also as aoe hit
now again in every aspect of pve group content magica is superiror where stamina lacks in everything, only in single target dps now can be comparable and only dk and sorc with MA duals, stam nb and stamplar are just on bottom in every dps

Chilly-McFreeze

@Edziu

I don't argue that magicka may is better at the moment, the nerf stam/ buff mag patch made this all too obvious. But the idea that stamina has almost no usable class skills is plain wrong. That some skills are better for PvE while others are better for PvP is nothing but normal. I wouldn't dare to use Defensive Rune in PvE.

I believe OP needs to realize that Stamina and Magicka are two very different systems. Not everything needs to be alike to achieve balance. It would just be horrible boring. Therefor I am against the idea of giving every skill a stamina and a magicka version. But that doesn't mean that there shouldn't be more options. This game lacks quit a few things tbh. The distinction between the elements of staves are a nice step in that direction.

But again, if you chose stamina it should feel different from magicka. Also it should feel different which class you use. Yeah, it's kind of limiting and annoying that sorcs have no class spam or dk don't have an execute. But diversity isn't achieve by equalization. I believe @STEVIL wrote something like that and also that everything should have a purpose and be best in one thing but not one thing should be able to be best in everything.

So making everything alike isn't always a good thing to do. Choose stam = agree to heavily rely on weapon skills and use class skills as back up. Choose mag = knowing the limitations of these builds to (e.g. most likely having to use a staff and don't easily obtain 5-5-2 set ups).

And if this bothers you all to much, go hybrid.

Edziu

@Chilly-McFreeze

yes, I also dont want every class skill to be with stam morph...but as for now how weapon skill lines we have...only 2 for pve usable and just 2-3 class skill to stamina..still some of class skills can be changed in morph into stamina morph...not every skill but some

for now stamina is different gameplay than magica but while every mag build look different because of many class skills usable then we have every stamina build looking almost same, everyone are using rapids, endlaess hail, poison inject, rearming trap and maybe rending slashes and deadly cloak, only difference what we have on stamina is sorcs hurricane and dk 2 dot's and only on nb and templar spammable class skills sintead of rapid but everything is going at all to use those rapid strikes over class spammable because of MA weapons meta

EDIT: also as I some played magic I also want to get melee magica wepaons, it will be great for some classes but also we have problem with range stamina dps which doesnt exist like stamplar :v

Necrelios

1. Stamina morphs were tagged on (much later on) as an afterthought.
2. The fact that this is so apparent proves it still needs some work.

jeskah

Necrelios wrote: »

1. Stamina morphs were tagged on (much later on) as an afterthought.
2. The fact that this is so apparent proves it still needs some work.

I think, its maybe not enough to observe just the lack of stamina morphs - and well, base skills too! - and their late coming to the game.

If you remember the original, release state of the game, weapon and spell power affected skills were a complete mix, stats were hardcapped (and way below the achievable levels), pretty much everything scaled off magicka - except the melee weapons - and as a result, the game became the elder robe online. They started to address this issue - because ZOS does not hate stamina builds, after all - but its a tedious and long work, reworking a complete skill and combat system and IMHO, they are not done yet. We have nearly a complete new combat system instead of the original.

However, i think, that they missed a chance and after the skill scaling and the buff system normalization they should have taken a breath, sit down and redefine the classes and the skill lines, with minding the stamina-based classes and the changes made beforehand.
So, more stamina morphs are certainly needed, along with stamina-friendly passives and a more daring approach to the skill lines and skills.

valeran46

It's not that ESO (ZOS) hates stamina, it's that they have taken an RPG whose mechanics are designed to be holy-trinity (tank, healer, dps) and have tried to turn it into a pvp-fest. It doesn't work. It hasn't worked for every other RPG MMO that has tried to do it. All it does is take the original concept of the game and turn it into a nerf-fest of this class, or that skill, or this piece of armor, as pvp'r after pvp'r complains how their healer isn't "viable" in pvp vs a tank, etc.

Bethesda has flat said they want OUT of RPG's and into the PVP action genre BECAUSE they have found out that trying to turn an RPG into a pvp-fest doesn't work. NOBODY is happy. PVE players aren't happy. PVP players aren't happy. ZOS actually said, "they've heard the PVP community and made X Y and Z changes". Great. What about the changes that have screwed over the PVE players?

RPG is not DESIGNED to be PVP friendly. The classes are meant to stand on their own COMPLIMENTING the other classes, NOT be comparable in dps, healing, buffs, etc, to every other class/skill. Every update that changes, nerfs, and tries to provide more "balance" is just negated by the theory-crafters that get around it by putting new combinations of class/race/skills/armor/weapons together to get the new "best" combination. The cycle then starts over: "OMG, this is so OP", "This needs to be nerfed because I'm dying", etc, etc, etc.

There will NEVER be parity in an RPG until they take every class, every race, every skill, every piece of armor, every weapon, and make it a cookie-cutter exact duplicate across the board. Until then, ALL you'll get are updates that nerf, change, and bring NEW complaints.

ADarklore

valeran46 wrote: »

It's not that ESO (ZOS) hates stamina, it's that they have taken an RPG whose mechanics are designed to be holy-trinity (tank, healer, dps) and have tried to turn it into a pvp-fest. It doesn't work. It hasn't worked for every other RPG MMO that has tried to do it. All it does is take the original concept of the game and turn it into a nerf-fest of this class, or that skill, or this piece of armor, as pvp'r after pvp'r complains how their healer isn't "viable" in pvp vs a tank, etc.

Bethesda has flat said they want OUT of RPG's and into the PVP action genre BECAUSE they have found out that trying to turn an RPG into a pvp-fest doesn't work. NOBODY is happy. PVE players aren't happy. PVP players aren't happy. ZOS actually said, "they've heard the PVP community and made X Y and Z changes". Great. What about the changes that have screwed over the PVE players?

RPG is not DESIGNED to be PVP friendly. The classes are meant to stand on their own COMPLIMENTING the other classes, NOT be comparable in dps, healing, buffs, etc, to every other class/skill. Every update that changes, nerfs, and tries to provide more "balance" is just negated by the theory-crafters that get around it by putting new combinations of class/race/skills/armor/weapons together to get the new "best" combination. The cycle then starts over: "OMG, this is so OP", "This needs to be nerfed because I'm dying", etc, etc, etc.

There will NEVER be parity in an RPG until they take every class, every race, every skill, every piece of armor, every weapon, and make it a cookie-cutter exact duplicate across the board. Until then, ALL you'll get are updates that nerf, change, and bring NEW complaints.

I want to see the LINK to the article in which Bethesda says this... because CLEARLY PvP in ESO is the minority player base and Bethesda makes a fortune off RPG's.