ESO Hates Stamina Builds Please Fix this ZOS

alephthiago

hmsdragonfly wrote: »

Billzihang123 wrote: »

To me this is a ridiculous system that not only over-complicates balance, but only results in pigeon holing players to being a Stamina ONLY build, or a magicka ONLY build.

This would negate the need to have my suggestion of morphs for every class skill that change the resource.

This is an Elder Scrolls game, and if people want to use a two handed sword along with fireballs they should be free to do so. The passives in the specific trees should increase the damage of the spells within it, not simply putting points in Stamina or magicka.

Think about it, a pure magicka build would have twice as much magicka, so they still have just as large a pool of resources. Same the other way round ofc.

Stop hamstringing your game with these silly MMO conventions.

I beg to differ.

---

The thing is that, even in Skyrim, if people choose to use two-handed sword along with fireballs they will be far weaker than a lot of other combinations. Yes, there are builds in Skyrim, there are absurbly OP builds and there are builds that are so weak you cannot play the game in normal difficulty. Because Skyrim is an offline game, you can simply lower your difficulty, here you cannot ask the player who is attacking you "pls lower your damage and i am using two handed sword along with fireballs". If you choose to theorycraft your own "play as you like" build, you will have to be somewhat decent in game knowledge and you have to be creative, your suggestion shows us that you lack both, so that's why so far you haven't been successful with your "two handed sword along with fireballs" build, and ask the devs to change the game to accommodate your own personal need, but as you see, i have successfully built with my "two handed sword along with fireballs" character. Well, actually not two handed, sword and shield.

Im sorry for being rude, but i hope this is a pve/rp build.

hmsdragonfly

alephthiago wrote: »

Im sorry for being rude, but i hope this is a pve/rp build.

Look at my stats and do maths I changed the attribute a bit, now i am at 28k max mag, 20k max stam, 3588 Spell Damage and 3588 Weapon Damage.
1000 Magicka = 100 Spell Damage.
A normal magDK has around 33k mag and 2500 spell damag (with rattle + seducer - 3000 fully buffed).

Tell me when you are done.

t3hdubzy

Kneighbors wrote: »

SHADOW2KK wrote: »

The way things are now is as good as it has ever been for stam builds, from early access on pc for bloody ages was the meta dress wearing magicka players.

Still agree with you though on some things.

Looks like you are talking about PvP.

There's a big conflict right now. In PvP stamina classes are very good right now. While in PvE they are really bad. If you will compare NB with Sorc starting from lvl 4 till cp600 you will discover

U make it sound like magika is struggling in pvp. I disagree. This update has increase my ability to die in 2 shots by magika users if im not super careful.

And u also make it sound like stamina is bad in pve, they may not have the top dps, but honestly ive never hd trouble completing any dungeon or trial on my stam dk or stam dps.


There may be a gap when it comes to 40 to 50k dps, but when i do trials, i typically dont die unless its a full wipe, and i can res in sticky situations where a magika player cannot. Just because some guilds dont allow stam players in their trials doesnt mean all are the same.


Trials aside, theres no dungeon stam players cant complete with ease, and the whole myth about no stam players in trials just isnt true. They add more survivability in my opinion.

DRXHarbinger

hmsdragonfly wrote: »

alephthiago wrote: »

Im sorry for being rude, but i hope this is a pve/rp build.

Look at my stats and do maths I changed the attribute a bit, now i am at 28k max mag, 20k max stam, 3588 Spell Damage and 3588 Weapon Damage.
1000 Magicka = 100 Spell Damage.
A normal magDK has around 33k mag and 2500 spell damag (with rattle + seducer).

Tell me when you are done.

L2DK. Mine rolls with 42k magika and 3600 spell damage. Damage isn't everything. Max stats are far far better. Your tooltips will be very low.

hmsdragonfly

DRXHarbinger wrote: »

hmsdragonfly wrote: »

alephthiago wrote: »

Im sorry for being rude, but i hope this is a pve/rp build.

Look at my stats and do maths I changed the attribute a bit, now i am at 28k max mag, 20k max stam, 3588 Spell Damage and 3588 Weapon Damage.
1000 Magicka = 100 Spell Damage.
A normal magDK has around 33k mag and 2500 spell damag (with rattle + seducer).

Tell me when you are done.

L2DK. Mine rolls with 42k magika and 3600 spell damage. Damage isn't everything. Max stats are far far better. Your tooltips will be very low.

Don't worry about my tool tip. My main source of damage coming from grothdarr and red mountain's procs. And whip non-crit at 4k5 in cyrodiil, i am fine with killing people.

t3hdubzy

Zuboko wrote: »

I say that based on the classes. Every last ability for every single class (save the ultimate abilities) all start as Magic based abilities.
There are a few abilities that can be turned into stamina based abilities but they are a minority.
So if I want to build a stamina based character (which I do) then I have to almost ignore the abilities my class gives me and find things in other areas to support my character.
Yes it can be done, and yes it can be done successfully, but if they actually fully supported stamina based builds then there would be some class abilities that at least started as stamina based.

Please give us some stamina based classes.

I totally agree with the OP, but cant say that this mattered to me except when I first started, in which case i didnt truly understand how eveyrthing worked anyways.

I personally would like to see 3 or 4 morphs per skill. The current setups allow little diversity or unique playstyle.

Emmagoldman

In pvp they are strong, in pve they are still good but not as strong. To say bad is really overdoing it imo. You still have great abilities and abilities that effect the group, so it is good to have dps on board. You can still have very high dps with great resource management.

I feel that this patch is in the right direction. People got very comfortable with insane dps with no cost (proc set meta). Hence a majority of cyrodill being stam. Just as sorcs got too comfortable with 20 sec shields or mag templars with radiant as an execute starting at 50%. There wwre and still are so mamy bad templars. Everytime I pvp i have a temp use radiant when im at full health. Also, Mag sorcs will not score as high as they are not cheesing 12k overload (sorc is my main in pvp).

Personally speaking, i find it much easier to survive on my stam dk. Great sustain, awesome dps, and good heals. The issue is, 1. Mag sorcs that stayed mag sorcs through the meta craze are good. Really good. We had to seriously adapt just to survive an instant to 3 second meta proc set deaths. Change sets, focus and hard use of 3rd bar or you were constantly one shotted. Especially as much of cyrodill is a horse stimulator. People went from the 20 sec shield cheese to the 3 proc meta cheese. Now the cheese isnt as strong and some dont know what to do with themselves or really how to maximize their class.

Stam toons are weaker than they were then last patch but thats good. You shouldnt be allowed to wipe every class with one rotation and three proc sets going off. People need to try out this patch, try to adapt, and in a couple of months, after people try out classes, make ever so slightly changes. Some magdk are strong now. Doesnt mean cry for nerf yet. Im going to try to ult and magika poisons on back bar. I know their passive buffs and they restore stats with ults. Most magika users are vamps so im going to use dawnbreaker. On my stam i try to time hard cc or dizzy swing for when the pop out of mist form.

Edziu

like for some people its fine for 4 stam skill lines, 2 maglines and 3 class with stam morphs...maybe fine but because of mostly class skills are only magic...stam build are almost same, almost not difference between them and classes

like people want for exaple stam morph to whip...but both morphs magic based are usable so maybe like we have 2 morphs in class skill...then to some more skills whitch with logic can be applied as stam then just add 3rd morph which will be only for stam and still keep 2 mag usable morphs

mariskaas

My main is a stamDK and she just seems very weak, dies a lot does not get much DPS and sustain is not great. Besides the fact I do not have BiS gear yet because it comes from trials, she should do better than she does. And it might be a little bit because of eso hating stam builds I do feel like it got worse since the latest patch, but also partly because I seem to get along with other builds better as a player. I recently started a magsorc and she already usually does higher DPS at lvl 19 partly because I'm just more comfortable with the timing of heavy attack weaving on staves while I have some troubles with bow weaving.
Even though I like my stamDK and a little love from eso might improve it slightly I think my playstyle is just more suited to magDPS and tanking. Its just so sad to leave my first char as a crafter x)

alanmatillab16_ESO

Billzihang123 wrote: »

I fail to understand why class abilities all start as magicka-based.

A solution would be to have class abilities work differently, and have a special morph initially when you learn them where you choose if it cost stamina or magicka. I mean, why not? Magicka seems rather advantaged by default, and aren't all classes supposed to support stamina and magicka builds?

Give choice.

From the very start they said Magicka was for class abilities and Stamina for weapon abilities, blocking and dodging. The intention was for players to have characters that balance class and weapon skills on their builds. If players min/max and go for an unbalanced build then that is not a failure in the design of the game.

Gilvoth

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

Simply put: The design favors magicka builds.

There has allways been fights that favor ranged approaches and discourage or outright disable a melee approach. This is simply how it is. Stamina builds are slowly being phased out again due to how the fights typically play out. DPS in melee range typically get screwed the longer a fight goes on.

S'not gonna change, sadly.

exactly!
that is the truth plain and simple, weather you like it or not, what he said is the truth.

alephthiago

hmsdragonfly wrote: »

alephthiago wrote: »

Im sorry for being rude, but i hope this is a pve/rp build.

Look at my stats and do maths I changed the attribute a bit, now i am at 28k max mag, 20k max stam, 3588 Spell Damage and 3588 Weapon Damage.
1000 Magicka = 100 Spell Damage.
A normal magDK has around 33k mag and 2500 spell damag (with rattle + seducer - 3000 fully buffed).

Tell me when you are done.

I was done looking at your stats sheet way before posting, i dont give opinion on stuff i know nothing about.
Your regen is VERY low and you are using medium armor instead of heavy(cant even count on the resource return from constitution).
Your penetration is almost non existent, your resistance is low, your mitigation cp is low (combined with the fact you are wearing medium).
Your magicka will end in 5 casts since you have no regen and your cost reduction is very spread, unless you can ulti every 6 seconds (which you cant, because you are wearing grothdar instead of bloodspawn).
You are wearing only 3 pieces of impen, combined with only 10 points in resistant.

DK is the number one class in expensive magicka skills.

Kneighbors

t3hdubzy wrote: »

Kneighbors wrote: »

SHADOW2KK wrote: »

The way things are now is as good as it has ever been for stam builds, from early access on pc for bloody ages was the meta dress wearing magicka players.

Still agree with you though on some things.

Looks like you are talking about PvP.

There's a big conflict right now. In PvP stamina classes are very good right now. While in PvE they are really bad. If you will compare NB with Sorc starting from lvl 4 till cp600 you will discover

U make it sound like magika is struggling in pvp. I disagree. This update has increase my ability to die in 2 shots by magika users if im not super careful.

And u also make it sound like stamina is bad in pve, they may not have the top dps, but honestly ive never hd trouble completing any dungeon or trial on my stam dk or stam dps.


There may be a gap when it comes to 40 to 50k dps, but when i do trials, i typically dont die unless its a full wipe, and i can res in sticky situations where a magika player cannot. Just because some guilds dont allow stam players in their trials doesnt mean all are the same.


Trials aside, theres no dungeon stam players cant complete with ease, and the whole myth about no stam players in trials just isnt true. They add more survivability in my opinion.

Man, what is your point in telling stamina build can complete any dungeon? Did I say they can't? So my healer templar can solo many vet dungeons, how is it connected to me comparing stamina NB to others and saying that it has lower survivability and lower DPS in PvE than sorc (actually than any class)? Do you want me to give you a candy because you can survive in a vet dungeon? I'm sure there's a guy who can solo vet dungeon with naked mag DK with only one skill bar, it's really cool to speculate over this but it has nothing to do with my point.

My point is simple, if you choose the best team for your trial you will try to have as less stamina NB as possible. One is more than enough. You said it youself about guilds.

hmsdragonfly

alephthiago wrote: »

hmsdragonfly wrote: »

alephthiago wrote: »

Im sorry for being rude, but i hope this is a pve/rp build.

Look at my stats and do maths I changed the attribute a bit, now i am at 28k max mag, 20k max stam, 3588 Spell Damage and 3588 Weapon Damage.
1000 Magicka = 100 Spell Damage.
A normal magDK has around 33k mag and 2500 spell damag (with rattle + seducer - 3000 fully buffed).

Tell me when you are done.

I was done looking at your stats sheet way before posting, i dont give opinion on stuff i know nothing about.
Your regen is VERY low and you are using medium armor instead of heavy(cant even count on the resource return from constitution).
Your penetration is almost non existent, your resistance is low, your mitigation cp is low (combined with the fact you are wearing medium).
Your magicka will end in 5 casts since you have no regen and your cost reduction is very spread, unless you can ulti every 6 seconds (which you cant, because you are wearing grothdar instead of bloodspawn).
You are wearing only 3 pieces of impen, combined with only 10 points in resistant.

DK is the number one class in expensive magicka skills.

Resistance is low in every medium armour build, not just mine. If I want to be tanky, I simply can wear heavy Pelinals and slot Volatile, it's also a good way to play if you want to be tanky, but the way I play, I prefer medium armour because I duo, I don't solo, my buddy who duo with me is is already tanky enough.

Haha, I know, everyone doubts it at first. Regen doesn't matter, this is not a magdk build. I don't spam whip, or any mag abilities. The way you play my build is completely different than the way you play a magDK build. Your main damage comes from grothdarr and red mountain's procs, NOT WHIP. Yes, red mountain's proc, 10k tool tip, 5k in cyrodiil, every 2 seconds, it's even more lethal than viper. What I do: buff up, shuffle, fossilize, go around the back of the target, LA+Engulfing Flames, Talons, Rending Slash, LA+Ember, LA+Bloodthirst x2. Red Mountain procs so much with rending slashes and bloodthirst. When the target's HP is low, I whip to finish him off, I do heavy attack to get back stam, plus tri-pots, I don't have many issues with regen at all, because as I said, I do not spam any mag-based abilities.

Yes I would love to wear 5 impen, but I haven't got any impen Grothdarr.

If you are in PC EU, I am up for some friendly duels Note that my mechanical skills are below average, in the right hand this build will excel. I am more effective with this hybrid that with my stamplar wearing black rose + viper/spriggan/automaton.

Jabodin

Hybrid builds are very good

Unsent.Soul

Jabodin wrote: »

Hybrid builds are very good

Yea, in 2014......

hmsdragonfly

Jabodin wrote: »

Hybrid builds are very good

They are decent if you know what you are doing. I will put it that way.

alephthiago

hmsdragonfly wrote: »

alephthiago wrote: »

hmsdragonfly wrote: »

alephthiago wrote: »

Im sorry for being rude, but i hope this is a pve/rp build.

Look at my stats and do maths I changed the attribute a bit, now i am at 28k max mag, 20k max stam, 3588 Spell Damage and 3588 Weapon Damage.
1000 Magicka = 100 Spell Damage.
A normal magDK has around 33k mag and 2500 spell damag (with rattle + seducer - 3000 fully buffed).

Tell me when you are done.

I was done looking at your stats sheet way before posting, i dont give opinion on stuff i know nothing about.
Your regen is VERY low and you are using medium armor instead of heavy(cant even count on the resource return from constitution).
Your penetration is almost non existent, your resistance is low, your mitigation cp is low (combined with the fact you are wearing medium).
Your magicka will end in 5 casts since you have no regen and your cost reduction is very spread, unless you can ulti every 6 seconds (which you cant, because you are wearing grothdar instead of bloodspawn).
You are wearing only 3 pieces of impen, combined with only 10 points in resistant.

DK is the number one class in expensive magicka skills.

Resistance is low in every medium armour build, not just mine. If I want to be tanky, I simply can wear heavy Pelinals and slot Volatile, it's also a good way to play if you want to be tanky, but the way I play, I prefer medium armour because I duo, I don't solo, my buddy who duo with me is is already tanky enough.

Haha, I know, everyone doubts it at first. Regen doesn't matter, this is not a magdk build. I don't spam whip, or any mag abilities. The way you play my build is completely different than the way you play a magDK build. Your main damage comes from grothdarr and red mountain's procs, NOT WHIP. Yes, red mountain's proc, 10k tool tip, 5k in cyrodiil, every 2 seconds, it's even more lethal than viper. What I do: buff up, shuffle, fossilize, go around the back of the target, LA+Engulfing Flames, Talons, Rending Slash, LA+Ember, LA+Bloodthirst x2. Red Mountain procs so much with rending slashes and bloodthirst. When the target's HP is low, I whip to finish him off, I do heavy attack to get back stam, plus tri-pots, I don't have many issues with regen at all, because as I said, I do not spam any mag-based abilities.

Yes I would love to wear 5 impen, but I haven't got any impen Grothdarr.

If you are in PC EU, I am up for some friendly duels Note that my mechanical skills are below average, in the right hand this build will excel. I am more effective with this hybrid that with my stamplar wearing black rose + viper/spriggan/automaton.

Im in PC NA

LorDrek

hmsdragonfly wrote: »

Billzihang123 wrote: »

I fail to understand why class abilities all start as magicka-based.

A solution would be to have class abilities work differently, and have a special morph initially when you learn them where you choose if it cost stamina or magicka. I mean, why not? Magicka seems rather advantaged by default, and aren't all classes supposed to support stamina and magicka builds?

Give choice.

2 Mag-Based Weapon Skill lines.
4 Stam-Based Weapon Skill lines.
3 Class Skill lines, with around 4-5 stam morphs in total.
Seems fair to me.

All classes support both stamina and magicka builds.

You have a **** tons of choices, what are you talking about?

Oh noooooo, bow single target terrible dmg, 2h any aoe, only usable DW. 1h&S is for tank. Staves not boost stamina, dw boost magicka.

DRXHarbinger

hmsdragonfly wrote: »

DRXHarbinger wrote: »

hmsdragonfly wrote: »

alephthiago wrote: »

Im sorry for being rude, but i hope this is a pve/rp build.

Look at my stats and do maths I changed the attribute a bit, now i am at 28k max mag, 20k max stam, 3588 Spell Damage and 3588 Weapon Damage.
1000 Magicka = 100 Spell Damage.
A normal magDK has around 33k mag and 2500 spell damag (with rattle + seducer).

Tell me when you are done.

L2DK. Mine rolls with 42k magika and 3600 spell damage. Damage isn't everything. Max stats are far far better. Your tooltips will be very low.

Don't worry about my tool tip. My main source of damage coming from grothdarr and red mountain's procs. And whip non-crit at 4k5 in cyrodiil, i am fine with killing people.

That's pathetic damage. Grothdar is like 1k in pvp....red mountain like 2k but you need to do measly weapon attacks to proc it, whip doesn't.

No spell or armor pen. I'd just put embers on you and laugh away.

xboxNA corin6

DRXHarbinger wrote: »

Wing wrote: »

pvp does not favor stamina, magicka is where its at.

So doesn't. Issue is stam players went batshit for sharpened weapons which are largely useless against magika players. ZOS changed a trait a while back which every called trash....nirnhoned. 2h nirn sword reks shields. Nightblades and Dks can debuff a magplayer anyway so once that shield is stripped off you're dead.

Stamsorc just need to crit rush, dbos and you're in huge trouble.

Stamplar again, charge to knock down that's half your stam getting up wait a few secs and bang back down the floor and sweep them up.

What pvp no longer favours is this *** S&B tremorscale and viper cancer.

Adapt people.

QFT. I just about die inside when people say stamina is bad in pvp. It's so obvious that they don't know what they are doing.

Funkopotamus

Kneighbors wrote: »

SHADOW2KK wrote: »

The way things are now is as good as it has ever been for stam builds, from early access on pc for bloody ages was the meta dress wearing magicka players.

Still agree with you though on some things.

: ESO will never become competetive PvP game. Leave PvP in it's beta state. Focus on improving PvE more, not PvP.

WhhhaaaUT?

PvP is what most of the story line is driven by.. Not to mention that PVP is honestly all ESO has for "End game content"

So yeah.... ESO has been and always will be a competitive PVP game..


The problems crop up when the ZOS tries to destroy PVE by trying to "fix" PVP! A much easier way would have been for ZOS to make the skills work different in PvP than they do in PVE. Trying to strike a balance while holding hard numbers across the board is damn near impossible in this game simply because the PVE content is just flat out way to EASY! That in tern makes beefing up the skills for PvP a suicide pill for PVE..

A large part of it could easily be fixed by either having totally different gear sets for PVP, or adjusting the sets to function differently between the two.. Most MMO's do a good job of this, but ESO fails to do so.

Kneighbors

Funkopotamus wrote: »

Kneighbors wrote: »

SHADOW2KK wrote: »

The way things are now is as good as it has ever been for stam builds, from early access on pc for bloody ages was the meta dress wearing magicka players.

Still agree with you though on some things.

: ESO will never become competetive PvP game. Leave PvP in it's beta state. Focus on improving PvE more, not PvP.

WhhhaaaUT?

PvP is what most of the story line is driven by.. Not to mention that PVP is honestly all ESO has for "End game content"

So yeah.... ESO has been and always will be a competitive PVP game..


The problems crop up when the ZOS tries to destroy PVE by trying to "fix" PVP! A much easier way would have been for ZOS to make the skills work different in PvP than they do in PVE. Trying to strike a balance while holding hard numbers across the board is damn near impossible in this game simply because the PVE content is just flat out way to EASY! That in tern makes beefing up the skills for PvP a suicide pill for PVE..

A large part of it could easily be fixed by either having totally different gear sets for PVP, or adjusting the sets to function differently between the two.. Most MMO's do a good job of this, but ESO fails to do so.

Hi, please read first what "competetive gaming" means at all.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ESports

Funkopotamus

Kneighbors wrote: »

Funkopotamus wrote: »

Kneighbors wrote: »

SHADOW2KK wrote: »

The way things are now is as good as it has ever been for stam builds, from early access on pc for bloody ages was the meta dress wearing magicka players.

Still agree with you though on some things.

: ESO will never become competetive PvP game. Leave PvP in it's beta state. Focus on improving PvE more, not PvP.

WhhhaaaUT?

PvP is what most of the story line is driven by.. Not to mention that PVP is honestly all ESO has for "End game content"

So yeah.... ESO has been and always will be a competitive PVP game..


The problems crop up when the ZOS tries to destroy PVE by trying to "fix" PVP! A much easier way would have been for ZOS to make the skills work different in PvP than they do in PVE. Trying to strike a balance while holding hard numbers across the board is damn near impossible in this game simply because the PVE content is just flat out way to EASY! That in tern makes beefing up the skills for PvP a suicide pill for PVE..

A large part of it could easily be fixed by either having totally different gear sets for PVP, or adjusting the sets to function differently between the two.. Most MMO's do a good job of this, but ESO fails to do so.

Hi, please read first what "competetive gaming" means at all.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ESports

Hi. Please read what an "Opinion" is

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opinion

Just because ESO may not be something seen on the holy MLG circuit doesn't mean it is not competitive. Your "OPINION" doesn't hold water, not does it make your statement a FACT!

The major problems with ESO are easy to identify. There are two!

1] ESO would have been so much better if the PVE did not play like a "Babies First MMO"

2] Everyone expected ESO to be basically "Skyrim With Friends" and it was NEVER advertised nor ment to be!

Putting those two together we get a game that doesn't know what it wants to be.. It is stuck being a hybrid of a single player RPG with the option to play with people if you want.. NO MMO can safely pull this off without pissing half the community off.

hmsdragonfly

DRXHarbinger wrote: »

hmsdragonfly wrote: »

DRXHarbinger wrote: »

hmsdragonfly wrote: »

alephthiago wrote: »

Im sorry for being rude, but i hope this is a pve/rp build.

Look at my stats and do maths I changed the attribute a bit, now i am at 28k max mag, 20k max stam, 3588 Spell Damage and 3588 Weapon Damage.
1000 Magicka = 100 Spell Damage.
A normal magDK has around 33k mag and 2500 spell damag (with rattle + seducer).

Tell me when you are done.

L2DK. Mine rolls with 42k magika and 3600 spell damage. Damage isn't everything. Max stats are far far better. Your tooltips will be very low.

Don't worry about my tool tip. My main source of damage coming from grothdarr and red mountain's procs. And whip non-crit at 4k5 in cyrodiil, i am fine with killing people.

That's pathetic damage. Grothdar is like 1k in pvp....red mountain like 2k but you need to do measly weapon attacks to proc it, whip doesn't.

No spell or armor pen. I'd just put embers on you and laugh away.

Um, nope. With my setup, red mountain has 10k tool tip, in cyrodiil it's a half right? It procs like crazy with rending slash and bloodthirst. It's even more lethal than viper on my stamplar.
I can have more spell pen when i can afford a sharp red mountain and some more CPs to put in spell erosion
Trust me, you are not the only one who doubts the damage at first, in reality, the damage is really nice, i am doing much more effectively than my stamplar wearing black rose + viper/spriggan/automaton.

Kneighbors

Funkopotamus wrote: »

Kneighbors wrote: »

Funkopotamus wrote: »

Kneighbors wrote: »

SHADOW2KK wrote: »

The way things are now is as good as it has ever been for stam builds, from early access on pc for bloody ages was the meta dress wearing magicka players.

Still agree with you though on some things.

: ESO will never become competetive PvP game. Leave PvP in it's beta state. Focus on improving PvE more, not PvP.

WhhhaaaUT?

PvP is what most of the story line is driven by.. Not to mention that PVP is honestly all ESO has for "End game content"

So yeah.... ESO has been and always will be a competitive PVP game..


The problems crop up when the ZOS tries to destroy PVE by trying to "fix" PVP! A much easier way would have been for ZOS to make the skills work different in PvP than they do in PVE. Trying to strike a balance while holding hard numbers across the board is damn near impossible in this game simply because the PVE content is just flat out way to EASY! That in tern makes beefing up the skills for PvP a suicide pill for PVE..

A large part of it could easily be fixed by either having totally different gear sets for PVP, or adjusting the sets to function differently between the two.. Most MMO's do a good job of this, but ESO fails to do so.

Hi, please read first what "competetive gaming" means at all.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ESports

Hi. Please read what an "Opinion" is

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opinion

Just because ESO may not be something seen on the holy MLG circuit doesn't mean it is not competitive. Your "OPINION" doesn't hold water, not does it make your statement a FACT!

Look, I'm happy that you feel competetive when playing beta minority game without future, but I was talking generally, that the move away from PvE towards PvP will result in negative value for developers of the game. PvP in ESO is not something that you can fix, or tweak to become popular game which will bring professional gamers in. The way it is built, it is much closer to exploit abuse fun game than to "professinal gaming" game.

Funkopotamus

Kneighbors wrote: »

Funkopotamus wrote: »

Kneighbors wrote: »

Funkopotamus wrote: »

Kneighbors wrote: »

SHADOW2KK wrote: »

The way things are now is as good as it has ever been for stam builds, from early access on pc for bloody ages was the meta dress wearing magicka players.

Still agree with you though on some things.

: ESO will never become competetive PvP game. Leave PvP in it's beta state. Focus on improving PvE more, not PvP.

WhhhaaaUT?

PvP is what most of the story line is driven by.. Not to mention that PVP is honestly all ESO has for "End game content"

So yeah.... ESO has been and always will be a competitive PVP game..


The problems crop up when the ZOS tries to destroy PVE by trying to "fix" PVP! A much easier way would have been for ZOS to make the skills work different in PvP than they do in PVE. Trying to strike a balance while holding hard numbers across the board is damn near impossible in this game simply because the PVE content is just flat out way to EASY! That in tern makes beefing up the skills for PvP a suicide pill for PVE..

A large part of it could easily be fixed by either having totally different gear sets for PVP, or adjusting the sets to function differently between the two.. Most MMO's do a good job of this, but ESO fails to do so.

Hi, please read first what "competetive gaming" means at all.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ESports

Hi. Please read what an "Opinion" is

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opinion

Just because ESO may not be something seen on the holy MLG circuit doesn't mean it is not competitive. Your "OPINION" doesn't hold water, not does it make your statement a FACT!

Look, I'm happy that you feel competetive when playing beta minority game without future, but I was talking generally, that the move away from PvE towards PvP will result in negative value for developers of the game. PvP in ESO is not something that you can fix, or tweak to become popular game which will bring professional gamers in. The way it is built, it is much closer to exploit abuse fun game than to "professinal gaming" game.

If you feel like the game is that bad and has absolutely no future why are you here?

Srsly?

And yes the only thing that keeps a large portion of this games player base around IS THE PVP. it sure as -Blank- is NOT the four count them F-O-U-R! End game dungeons! lol

Billzihang123

hmsdragonfly wrote: »

Billzihang123 wrote: »

To me this is a ridiculous system that not only over-complicates balance, but only results in pigeon holing players to being a Stamina ONLY build, or a magicka ONLY build.

This would negate the need to have my suggestion of morphs for every class skill that change the resource.

This is an Elder Scrolls game, and if people want to use a two handed sword along with fireballs they should be free to do so. The passives in the specific trees should increase the damage of the spells within it, not simply putting points in Stamina or magicka.

Think about it, a pure magicka build would have twice as much magicka, so they still have just as large a pool of resources. Same the other way round ofc.

Stop hamstringing your game with these silly MMO conventions.

I beg to differ.

---

The thing is that, even in Skyrim, if people choose to use two-handed sword along with fireballs they will be far weaker than a lot of other combinations. Yes, there are builds in Skyrim, there are absurbly OP builds and there are builds that are so weak you cannot play the game in normal difficulty. Because Skyrim is an offline game, you can simply lower your difficulty, here you cannot ask the player who is attacking you "pls lower your damage and i am using two handed sword along with fireballs". If you choose to theorycraft your own "play as you like" build, you will have to be somewhat decent in game knowledge and you have to be creative, your suggestion shows us that you lack both, so that's why so far you haven't been successful with your "two handed sword along with fireballs" build, and ask the devs to change the game to accommodate your own personal need, but as you see, i have successfully built with my "two handed sword along with fireballs" character. Well, actually not two handed, sword and shield.

I don't have a 'two handed and fireballs' build, isn't it obvious that was an example?

Why is it that everywhere you look hybridisation is said to be sub-optimal, very much so. Maybe you have some special knowledge, but when I see everywhere else tell me otherwise...

There's also a question of specialising in a few things - I'm not talking about wanting to be good at everything - one can be very good with swords and very good with conjuring demons for example, but that is the choice. I'm only talking about two handed swords and fireballs, not conjuration, healing, bows and making marzipan.

Skyrim worked fine as long as you didn't try and be decent at lots of things, and builds with one hand doing magic and the other with a 1 hander worked quite fine.

What exactly would be the harm of doing away with ability scaling through magicka and stamina? Can't you see how it would simplify things, but also have players consider them from a more intuitive view of resource pools. "Hmmmm... I'd like to have 75% in stamina and 25% in magicka because that's how I roughly spend by my bar layout."

After all you can still only have 5 abilities on your bar at once, so what difference does it make if it's a fireball rather than a cleave?

deepseamk20b14_ESO

Kneighbors wrote: »

SHADOW2KK wrote: »

The way things are now is as good as it has ever been for stam builds, from early access on pc for bloody ages was the meta dress wearing magicka players.

Still agree with you though on some things.

Looks like you are talking about PvP.

There's a big conflict right now. In PvP stamina classes are very good right now. While in PvE they are really bad. If you will compare NB with Sorc starting from lvl 4 till cp600 you will discover that:

1) Sorc is much easier to play for solo.
2) Sorc gets better DPS in dungeons on low levels.
3) Sorc is much better surviving. First morph to clanfear gives him burst heal. Later he gets Surge which just makes life easy for him. At the same time NB is trying to heal himself from mark target and trying to grind AP for Vigor (now it's alil bit easier due to AP increase, before was not easy at all)
4) Sorc is easier to play in PvP content. Rune shield + Bolt Escape lets him run away from any danger in PvP while NB will get mugged almost every encounter with enemy player.
5) Sorc get fast access to shield (Ward) and increase of resistances (Lightning Form).

In latest patch ZoS turned toward PvP players and turned away from PvE. I think it's wrong simply because the first reason I came to ESO was its highly recommended PvE content. I have never played MMO or any kind of PvE online game before. I am 20 years playing PvP competetive games. I can call myself sort of professional by the amount of time I invested in it. So I can tell you one thing: ESO will never become competetive PvP game. Leave PvP in it's beta state. Focus on improving PvE more, not PvP.

I have to disgree with the last part. ZoS has basically never looked at PvP. Thier main focus has almost always been on PvE. This has been a complaint on the forums for years now. For them to finally show a little love on the PvP side of things is nice. It doesn't mean they can't of course still look at PvE without putting on the back burner of course.

Tommy_The_Gun

Don't you worry. Stamina builds were previously better in PvP. Now magicka builds are the current meta. I guess that it will change with introduction of Morrowind chapter..