We need a true auction house. With auction only and NO buyout.

AlexanderDeLarge

There's a reason why you can join multiple guilds. You should have a PVE guild, a PVE guild and two trading guilds.

Espica

I think the system either needs
1.- A search feature where you type what you're looking for.
2.- A way to search all the trader stands in a city/map from one stand. Similar to how you do it within your guilds from the bank menu.

Both would be awesome.

hamgatan

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

Others are scamming and trying to sell items much higher than the going rate.

and that doesn't happen at GT's?

Holy Moly, I knew those green Divines Robes of Necropotence were an absolute bargain at 290K each! Maybe I should stock up because you know - FOTM and all.

Cpt_Teemo

hamgatan wrote: »

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

Others are scamming and trying to sell items much higher than the going rate.

and that doesn't happen at GT's?

Holy Moly, I knew those green Divines Robes of Necropotence were an absolute bargain at 290K each! Maybe I should stock up because you know - FOTM and all.

Just called reselling, no scamming involved if they can't make you buy it

Asha_11_ESO

No thanks. I'm not sure there's many people who go to an auction house/trader and expect to wait three -five days for the item they want.

I do think the current guild trader system needs improvements though. I just hope they never make a universal one, because like others have mentioned it turns into a few rich players who seem to play the ah game 24/7 controlling every part of the trade market.

The number one problem I have with the current system is that it can be time consuming trying to find an uncommon item - having to travel all over the map. But then, that's pretty much what it would be like, if this were the world we live in. The Awesome guild store addon is a great help too.

FloppyTouch

Kyle1983b14_ESO wrote: »

WaTeR-aBuSeR wrote: »

NO

YES

YES

Gandrhulf_Harbard

Callous2208 wrote: »

Oh cool glad you said that. Here I thought I was a grown man making my own decisions about what I enjoy and what's a necessity for me. Watch me trigger your young naive mind now. This is the system ZOS chose. It's great and they have no plans to change it. Better adapt or move on friend. Kek.

@Callous2208

I have no issue at all with the fact you enjoy the current system and find it useful. It'd be a pretty boring world, and game, if we all liked the same one or two things. I understand that you are of the opinion that the current system works for your style of gameplay, and I'm fine with that too. I don't want to take that away from you, and I would never even think of telling you how you should enjoy the game.


What I want is a secondary system that meets the needs of those players for who the current system isn't enjoyable, and for who it doesn't work.

I've seen one simple suggestion that could achieve a significant portion of that without even affecting how the current system works.

A "Bulletin Board" in each Zone Capital that players can go to to look for X, and it list all of the Kiosks within that Zone that have X listed for sale. It does NOT list prices - just availability. Now this would be a MASSIVE improvement for players who a) do not have the time to, or b) do not enjoy, traipsing half way around the world to still not find what they are looking for. And it would INCREASE overall sales for Traders.

Then I'd add ONLY in each Zone Capital a Free Trader.
A Kiosk that only Players without a Trade Kiosk can list a very limited number of items for sale (I'd suggest 10) and have the Free Trader take a higher percentage as Sales Tax (say double the normal Kiosk value).

These two things together would pretty much resolve 95% of my issues with the current system.

There's still no AH, there's still no "centralised list" of prices, the Buyer still has to do some legwork to find the best deal, and non-Trade Guild players get a way to sell a very limited number of items.

What do you think?

All The Best

ScooberSteve

If you can explain your point simply you dont understand it well enough. No reason to have comments 1000 words long.

Sylosi

This game has the most tedious, least user friendly, most poorly designed trading system I've ever encountered, and is one of the reasons I barely play and no longer spend money on the game, if Apple designed products like ESO designed this trading system, no one would buy them.

anitajoneb17_ESO

Tandor wrote: »

Of course the present system is fine for the serious traders, that's why they keep defending it, but let's not underestimate the number of players who it excludes. Whether or not it's the 90% of players being talked about here is really neither here nor there, by any calculation of the number of kiosks and therefore successful guilds at any one time, the number of players in more than one of those guilds, and the comparison between those figures and the size of the playerbase, it's pretty obvious that an awful lot of players are excluded from the present system.

100% of players would like to have a Maelstroem weapon. Yet (say) 10% of players have one, and 90% of players have none. They are excluded from getting the best gear because they don't play well enough. Yet everyone (including me) think that's ok.

I belong to the 90% who would really like to have a maelstroem weapon - yet I don't. WHY ? Because I'm not interested in learning to play better than I currently do (not enough for VMA) and I find other things more pleasant in the game than practising my rotation and learning mob spawn routines. In other words : I don't want to put in the effort. My choice.

The problem with trading is that very few players want to put effort into that. Trading requires skill and knowledge : knowing about availability, rarity, usefulness and popularity of each item, knowing the game's systems, reading patch notes and keeping yourself informed in order to anticipate market evolution, etc. Many players just see the trading system as a recycle bin to put all their trash in exchange for slightly more gold than an NPC merchant. A dust bin. They list crap upon crap in their guild stores and if they don't sell, they blame the guild traders' system, the imaginary "big trading guilds cartels" who supposedly manipulate the whole economy. But the truth is, they simply have listed stuff that noone wants at inadequate prices. Best case scenario, they use the Master Merchant statistical price and list at that price without any further thinking. Problem is, Master Merchant is only useful if you know how to read the figures correctly.

Now go to most of the remote guild traders (anywhere outside the big hubs) and look at what's listed : mostly useless trash items at totally inadequate prices. Because the people in those guilds aren't experienced traders and don't want to put the effort into becoming one.
On the other hand, the reason why some trading hubs are so popular (Rawl, Belkarth...) isn't only due to the convenience of the location : it is also due to the fact that those guilds are made of - mainly - experienced traders. They don't list crap, and what they list is priced fairly, at current market prices. And you're almost guaranteed to find the useful stuff you're looking for there - because people there know what the buyers need and what items are currently in demand. They don't list crap.

The day I see such a broad, reasonable, intelligent and informed offer at most/all trading kiosks in Tamriel, I'll start agreeing that the system is unfair and excludes good traders. Until then, I think it's great that the system helps promoting good traders and keeping non-serious players out of the market.

A trading guild with minimum sales requirements or fees is, imho, the equivalent of a progression guild with minimum DPS requirement. Both are perfectly normal.
A player who can't sell enough to stay in a major trading guild simply doesn't deserve one. Just like I don't deserve a Maelstroem weapon.

anitajoneb17_ESO

Gandrhulf_Harbard wrote: »

A "Bulletin Board" in each Zone Capital that players can go to to look for X, and it list all of the Kiosks within that Zone that have X listed for sale. It does NOT list prices - just availability. Now this would be a MASSIVE improvement for players who a) do not have the time to, or b) do not enjoy, traipsing half way around the world to still not find what they are looking for. And it would INCREASE overall sales for Traders.

I quite fancy your suggestion, but I think that, before considering system changes, ZOS should address interface and performance issues.
Many people blame the trading system for things that have inherently nothing to do with it : travelling around to shop isn't tedious per se, it's tedious because of the loading screens, the atrocious search times, and the very lacking interface.
I'd suggest ZOS fix those first, then we see how it goes.

I'm quite ready to bet that if travelling and searching were both quicker and easier, people would quite enjoy shopping at guild traders.

t3hdubzy

Post r getting too long to follow, i dislike the current system and thats all i got to say about that. Im here to play the game, not spend 3 hrs searching for one item because someone cant design a better system.

Tapio75

We do not need auction houses at all.

iord_stryker

what if they allowed anyone to buy and sell and have guilds bid for the profits instead of trade rights?

Cpt_Teemo

Tapio75 wrote: »

We do not need auction houses at all.

Yeah, "We" as in only "You" don't the rest of the game thinks kind of differently.

Aeko

I like having a buyout because having to wait for an item is extremely annoying, although I think that the trade system could be efficient and more friendly. Maybe in each town there be only one guild kiosk NPC and each guild can bid for a share of that kiosk, that way you can have more guilds in that location each having a share and being able to post. That way you can search through that towns items more quickly and efficiently while also adding a few more guilds into the equation.

mikeabboudb14_ESO

i've been playing since the beta before the alpha when it was just block figures on a blue screen and i say we dont need an auction house ive been able to get everything by questing visiting the guild sales people wherever i go. its fun to pop in check to see if the trader has something i want and keep on questing. You want a an AH so you can drive up your prices to make more make believe money. Thereby ruining everyone else enjoyment so you can play a fake market place. Try the real market test your skills there leave the rest of us to our enjoyment.

Theoriginalubiety

I've play several MMOs in my day starting with FFXI. It had an auction house that worked great and if you didn't want to put it up for auction, you could sell it through a personal market. I don't remember if there was a buyout option or not, but I really enjoyed selling stuff on there. It was an extra part of the game, like crafting, that made me want to make stuff or farm stuff to sell. However, stuff was a little harder to come by. FFXI didn't spam you with items. You really had to work for them or farm the crap out of stuff to make your own. Sure it was hard and the grinds were long, but you appreciated the weapons and armor you had.

The personal market was cool too. You set stuff in your item bag for sell, then a marker beside you name would appear letting people know you had stuff to sell. Those things in your item bag was locked so you did dropped them by accident. People would then search your market and then buy for the price you set.

I do agree, ESO has made it a little complicated to buy the extra stuff you need if you don't want to craft it or farm for it. ESO has put out the little man that's not part of a guild or not interested in the other aspects of the game. Some people just want to go to a central location for a one-stop shop and get all there needs. You know, ESO could call it a flea market or a bazaar. They could even still incorporate the guilds, but put them in a central location that is replicated throughout all the factions.

Cpt_Teemo

We need a server wide AH but with Buyout like 99% of the other MMO's that have it.

Krileon

Just add a way to search all guild traders at once. I'm tired of spending hours going to every trader to find 1 obscure item. All this feature would allow is searching. You'd still have to go to the trader to buy the item and you'd still have to have a trader to sell items. This is the only way I can see something like this working without upsetting those that actually like guild traders.

Baronh2o

Khedrakb14_ESO wrote: »

I've been playing since Alpha and do agree there needs to be a change in the way we are allowed to sell our goods.

The guild stores / trader are a nice concept and different than most games. But its a major flaw in an MMO. More than 9/10 of guilds out there won't have a guild trader. You'd have to be in as many trade guilds as you can, just to sell stuff. These guilds are the worst for they are only for trading. There is hardly any socialization within them, making friends is impossible, yet alone finding people to do groups or other things within this type of guild. You also have to spend gold to the guild so the guild can get or keep a guild trader. That is gold you lose. (i.e. Lottery, in-guild auctions and just donating). Some even require you to pay guild dues in order to stay in the guild. There is also a lot of guild hoping, as when a guild loses their guild trader, people drop guild and look for another that has a guild trader. Most of these type of guilds have an inactive policy of 7 days to 30 days and you get the boot to make room for more gold payers to get or keep the trader. Again hard to make friends with this system.

I do like the idea but there just isn't enough Guild merchants to go around. It would be better if there was at least 10 times more of them.

So I say keep this Guild Store / Merchant system but put in a true auction house. One that has NO buyout function and at minimum of 3-5 day auctions. Also only allow certain items (high value items) in the auction house. Also with a limit to how many items you can put into the action house. Something like 10 - 15 would be best. Mainly to keep the traders useful and to keep out all those stack-able, single item posts that take up auction space, out.

This would also be something unique as most MMO have a buyout in their auction houses. I'm not even sure if any MMO has a true Auction house. I've never seen one. I've played MMO's for over 20 years now and I've not seen an auction house without a buyout feature.


EDIT: Look at this from a sellers point of view. You can get the most profit from your most valued items and there would be no undercutting of prices. You set a price and the players would control the market by bidding only what they feel its worth.

From a buyers point of view, yes you may have to wait a few days till the action is over but you at least know the item isn't over priced because its the players market that set the price. Like when you go to a guild trader and buy something for say 10k and find out in many other guild traders that the item sells for 2k. If you don't get the one you bid on, you can always bid on another like it later with a better idea on how much it'l be. Also you wouldn't have to keep going from town to town looking at all those guild Traders for the high value items you're looking for.

Your assumptions are well intended but wrong.

Two of your main points for arguing for a central auction house were:
1. Trade guilds aren't socially functioning guilds
2. You have to go around to all guild traders to find items / best deals

I can counter both points immediately:
1. I'm in exactly 1 trading guild and I sell items almost every single day. This trading guild stays near member cap and guess what? Plenty of the people in the guild are social and operate just like a normal guild. We even hold Elder Scrolls trivia on Friday nights. Also there is a good chunk of players that do trial groups (with members composed almost entirely from the Guild) on Saturday
2. I never go around looking for the best deals and hoping locations looking at all the guild traders. There is a website out there that's pretty amazing that will show you pretty much what every guild trader has on it currently. For example you can search for a specific item (even down to the trait) and it will tell you all items that are currently trading, the price of the item and where to find it (city and the name of the guild store).

srfrogg23

Khedrakb14_ESO wrote: »

I've been playing since Alpha and do agree there needs to be a change in the way we are allowed to sell our goods.

The guild stores / trader are a nice concept and different than most games. But its a major flaw in an MMO. More than 9/10 of guilds out there won't have a guild trader. You'd have to be in as many trade guilds as you can, just to sell stuff. These guilds are the worst for they are only for trading. There is hardly any socialization within them, making friends is impossible, yet alone finding people to do groups or other things within this type of guild. You also have to spend gold to the guild so the guild can get or keep a guild trader. That is gold you lose. (i.e. Lottery, in-guild auctions and just donating). Some even require you to pay guild dues in order to stay in the guild. There is also a lot of guild hoping, as when a guild loses their guild trader, people drop guild and look for another that has a guild trader. Most of these type of guilds have an inactive policy of 7 days to 30 days and you get the boot to make room for more gold payers to get or keep the trader. Again hard to make friends with this system.

I do like the idea but there just isn't enough Guild merchants to go around. It would be better if there was at least 10 times more of them.

So I say keep this Guild Store / Merchant system but put in a true auction house. One that has NO buyout function and at minimum of 3-5 day auctions. Also only allow certain items (high value items) in the auction house. Also with a limit to how many items you can put into the action house. Something like 10 - 15 would be best. Mainly to keep the traders useful and to keep out all those stack-able, single item posts that take up auction space, out.

This would also be something unique as most MMO have a buyout in their auction houses. I'm not even sure if any MMO has a true Auction house. I've never seen one. I've played MMO's for over 20 years now and I've not seen an auction house without a buyout feature.


EDIT: Look at this from a sellers point of view. You can get the most profit from your most valued items and there would be no undercutting of prices. You set a price and the players would control the market by bidding only what they feel its worth.

From a buyers point of view, yes you may have to wait a few days till the action is over but you at least know the item isn't over priced because its the players market that set the price. Like when you go to a guild trader and buy something for say 10k and find out in many other guild traders that the item sells for 2k. If you don't get the one you bid on, you can always bid on another like it later with a better idea on how much it'l be. Also you wouldn't have to keep going from town to town looking at all those guild Traders for the high value items you're looking for.

On the subject of unnecessarily time-consuming things;

I think this game could also use a DMV: Department of Mount Vehicles where we have to wait in line for hours until we are issued a license to ride our horses. I mean, it's super immersive and realistic that way. We don't want just any yahoo hopping on a horse and riding them around town, they could crash into something!

There also need to be posted speed limits around Tamriel, and if someone is caught speeding, they should be issued a speeding ticket. Then we can go hang out in civil courts and wait for our turn to argue with a judge about whether or not we think the speeding ticket was valid.

Immersion!

DHale

I am glad the system is as is is. I won't pay 250 k for a spinner sharp fire staff when I can shop around and find an obscure trader where it's sold for 70 k. Which I did and am glad I was patient and it paid off. It will go well with the five piece morag tong for under 20 k. There is no reason the system need to be changed and btw it won't be.

Solariken

Guild traders are awesome, but the monopolization and cronyism involved is terrible. IMO here is what ZOS should do:

1. Guild leaders sign a contract with a single, central merchant guild NPC that deducts X gold from the guild bank every day. This can be cancelled at any time or cancels automatically if there is not enough gold in the bank.

2. Each day, guilds who have active contracts receive a random trader throughout Tamriel. Since there are likely more guilds than traders, if the guild unlucky and doesn't get a trader, the daily fee is refunded.

This adds fairness to the market and prevents some of the more egregious problems with the current system. It lowers the barriers of entry for start-up guilds - it is currently nigh impossible for anyone to start a trade guild with the hope of ever competing with the big guys. Additionally, this encourages players to shop around the world a bit rather than only visiting a handful in high traffic areas.

Most importantly, people will likely be more inclined to join more gameplay-centric guilds and overall social activities in ESO would likely increase.

anitajoneb17_ESO

Solariken wrote: »

Guild traders are awesome, but the monopolization and cronyism involved is terrible. IMO here is what ZOS should do:

1. Guild leaders sign a contract with a single, central merchant guild NPC that deducts X gold from the guild bank every day. This can be cancelled at any time or cancels automatically if there is not enough gold in the bank.

2. Each day, guilds who have active contracts receive a random trader throughout Tamriel. Since there are likely more guilds than traders, if the guild unlucky and doesn't get a trader, the daily fee is refunded.

This adds fairness to the market and prevents some of the more egregious problems with the current system. It lowers the barriers of entry for start-up guilds - it is currently nigh impossible for anyone to start a trade guild with the hope of ever competing with the big guys. Additionally, this encourages players to shop around the world a bit rather than only visiting a handful in high traffic areas.

Most importantly, people will likely be more inclined to join more gameplay-centric guilds and overall social activities in ESO would likely increase.

Nice idea ! But it wouldn't work. It would if all trading guilds were equally well managed and stuffed, but half of them aren't. Outside from the big hubs with expensive traders, you find lots of guild traders with literally nothing to offer that's even remotely interesting. At least when I need something I know I can go to Belkarth and find it fairly priced. If those hubs were randomly occupied by any guild, there would be nothing to buy from them most of the time and people wouldn't even bother shopping anymore.

reiverx

I'm fine with the current system but the load screens make it a lesson in tedium. That part really needs addressed.

Tandor

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

Tandor wrote: »

Of course the present system is fine for the serious traders, that's why they keep defending it, but let's not underestimate the number of players who it excludes. Whether or not it's the 90% of players being talked about here is really neither here nor there, by any calculation of the number of kiosks and therefore successful guilds at any one time, the number of players in more than one of those guilds, and the comparison between those figures and the size of the playerbase, it's pretty obvious that an awful lot of players are excluded from the present system.

100% of players would like to have a Maelstroem weapon. Yet (say) 10% of players have one, and 90% of players have none. They are excluded from getting the best gear because they don't play well enough. Yet everyone (including me) think that's ok.

I belong to the 90% who would really like to have a maelstroem weapon - yet I don't. WHY ? Because I'm not interested in learning to play better than I currently do (not enough for VMA) and I find other things more pleasant in the game than practising my rotation and learning mob spawn routines. In other words : I don't want to put in the effort. My choice.

The problem with trading is that very few players want to put effort into that. Trading requires skill and knowledge : knowing about availability, rarity, usefulness and popularity of each item, knowing the game's systems, reading patch notes and keeping yourself informed in order to anticipate market evolution, etc. Many players just see the trading system as a recycle bin to put all their trash in exchange for slightly more gold than an NPC merchant. A dust bin. They list crap upon crap in their guild stores and if they don't sell, they blame the guild traders' system, the imaginary "big trading guilds cartels" who supposedly manipulate the whole economy. But the truth is, they simply have listed stuff that noone wants at inadequate prices. Best case scenario, they use the Master Merchant statistical price and list at that price without any further thinking. Problem is, Master Merchant is only useful if you know how to read the figures correctly.

Now go to most of the remote guild traders (anywhere outside the big hubs) and look at what's listed : mostly useless trash items at totally inadequate prices. Because the people in those guilds aren't experienced traders and don't want to put the effort into becoming one.
On the other hand, the reason why some trading hubs are so popular (Rawl, Belkarth...) isn't only due to the convenience of the location : it is also due to the fact that those guilds are made of - mainly - experienced traders. They don't list crap, and what they list is priced fairly, at current market prices. And you're almost guaranteed to find the useful stuff you're looking for there - because people there know what the buyers need and what items are currently in demand. They don't list crap.

The day I see such a broad, reasonable, intelligent and informed offer at most/all trading kiosks in Tamriel, I'll start agreeing that the system is unfair and excludes good traders. Until then, I think it's great that the system helps promoting good traders and keeping non-serious players out of the market.

A trading guild with minimum sales requirements or fees is, imho, the equivalent of a progression guild with minimum DPS requirement. Both are perfectly normal.
A player who can't sell enough to stay in a major trading guild simply doesn't deserve one. Just like I don't deserve a Maelstroem weapon.

Equating a basic function like trading in a MMO with the obtaining of the best weapon in the game is absurd. Of course you have to work hard and rely on guild assistance to get the best weapon, but you shouldn't have to do so in order to sell a stack of iron ore!

Solariken

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

Solariken wrote: »

Guild traders are awesome, but the monopolization and cronyism involved is terrible. IMO here is what ZOS should do:

1. Guild leaders sign a contract with a single, central merchant guild NPC that deducts X gold from the guild bank every day. This can be cancelled at any time or cancels automatically if there is not enough gold in the bank.

2. Each day, guilds who have active contracts receive a random trader throughout Tamriel. Since there are likely more guilds than traders, if the guild unlucky and doesn't get a trader, the daily fee is refunded.

This adds fairness to the market and prevents some of the more egregious problems with the current system. It lowers the barriers of entry for start-up guilds - it is currently nigh impossible for anyone to start a trade guild with the hope of ever competing with the big guys. Additionally, this encourages players to shop around the world a bit rather than only visiting a handful in high traffic areas.

Most importantly, people will likely be more inclined to join more gameplay-centric guilds and overall social activities in ESO would likely increase.

Nice idea ! But it wouldn't work. It would if all trading guilds were equally well managed and stuffed, but half of them aren't. Outside from the big hubs with expensive traders, you find lots of guild traders with literally nothing to offer that's even remotely interesting. At least when I need something I know I can go to Belkarth and find it fairly priced. If those hubs were randomly occupied by any guild, there would be nothing to buy from them most of the time and people wouldn't even bother shopping anymore.

That's what the contract fee is meant to address @anitajoneb17_ESO. The fee would be high enough to filter out scrub guilds who aren't willing to make the effort to recruit and stock the store properly. And again, if guilds don't/can't pay the fee, they don't get a trader.

Edit: an intelligent way to structure the fee could be .5% of the previous day's total global trader sales divided by the number of traders. So let's say total sales were 1,000,000,000g * .5% / 150 traders (just a guess) = daily contract fee of ~33,000 gold.

anitajoneb17_ESO

Tandor wrote: »

Equating a basic function like trading in a MMO with the obtaining of the best weapon in the game is absurd. Of course you have to work hard and rely on guild assistance to get the best weapon, but you shouldn't have to do so in order to sell a stack of iron ore!

It's only absurd if you (as you say yourself) consider trading like a basic function, when fighting is a main function.
In my opinion trading isn't a "function". I consider trading a main aspect of the game, equal to fighting. And trading deserves competitive design and mechanics just like fighting does.

Chronicburn

I remember years ago when I played WoW their auction house worked great... no clue why we don't have that type here ...