Morrowind...and ESO+

Linaleah · January 2017

Ashtaris wrote: »

I have mixed feelings about this. I understand this is a big expansion and will cost a considerable amount to produce, but I always thought our subscription would give us access to any new DLC that may come along in ESO. And although you call this an "Expansion", you will have a digital edition available which makes it DLC. So if my subscription no longer gives me access to new downloadable content, what the hell am I paying for? The crafting bag?

Which brings me to another question. It was announced that ESO Morrowind will be coming out June 6th, and our next DLC, Homestead, will be coming out February 6th. So does that mean there will not be any new ESO content for the next few months after Homestead?

I'm sorry, but digital edition is not what makes something DLC vs expansion. relative size among other things does. because otherwise, by your reasoning full games are suddenly rendered DLC's just because they are available digitally (that by the way includes baseline or gold edition of ESO we have right now... since they are available as digital downloads)

and what you are paying for is crafting bag PLUS continuous acess to DLC's so far plus future DLC's PLUS 1500 crowns a month, PLUS 10% boost to gold and xp rewards PLUS ability to dye costumes in any combination you chose with your unlocked dyes.

it is your prerogative to be upset. personaly? I'm not. and that is with the fact that I actualy paid for permanent acess to all the DLC's so far (prior to them being available in gold edition, so I paid preorder price for digital imperial edition at launch AND full individual DLC prices) and then ended up subscribing anyways. and before anyone says anything about being long term subscriber vs new player - consider this. a player who just bought a base game on sale for $13 and then started subscribing gets exact same acess as someone who paid full price at launch and subscribing that entire time.

honestly? IMO? $40 for morrowind is fair. ESO plus or not. but that maybe because I also used to play SWTOR and after that game being either regular or ESO plus player here is amazing. (and I still play WoW and you get no perks from subscription at all, just plain acess)

P.S. we have homestead coming next week. that's content. and we don't know if there will be no more DLC's till june yet.

Riga_Mortis · January 2017

Warden class not part of base game either.

Thestephenmcraeub17_ESO · January 2017

After reading a few more comments, I think many people here have a good point. Promising all future content with an ESO+ subscription was a mistake on ZOS's part if they planned on releasing content that even Plus subscribers would have to buy separately. While I'm sure it would be infeasible to include Morrowind with ESO+, perhaps some kind of deal, or arrangement, or restructuring of what ESO+ actually is would be necessary. For the players who subbed solely for access to future content, the feel is definitely that they have been cheated. For those (like me) who subbed for the other benefits, I at least don't feel like I'm being ripped off. I think it's time to redefine what ESO+ is going forward, so that we don't run into any more issues of what should be included. The terms of ESO+ need to be laid out clear, or changed in ways that everyone (or at least a majority of people) can consider fair. Perhaps people would be more satisfied if ESO+ included more digital convenience items to start to steer it away from being a subscription to bypass expansion costs. Or maybe ZOS should just include the most basic version of Morrowind for ESO+ subscribers.

BlackMadara · January 2017

MasterSpatula wrote: »

Tandor wrote: »

I suppose it was too much to expect everyone to welcome such a major addition to the game like this.

"Waarrgghh! I'm quitting because there's no new content!" quickly becomes "Waarrgghh! I'm quitting because there's new content and I've got to pay for it!"

Personally, I think it's great news and I'm looking forward to it.

Nice try, buddy. But I have been paying for new content I haven't received. Now, they're keeping that money I've paid for new content and releasing that content and insisting I pay for it.

You can throw out your "Waarrgghh!"s all you like, but nothing about that changes the fact that I, by ZOS own agreement, am paying for "all future content." I have already paid for Morrowind.

This is breach of contract. In fact, I'll just go ahead and break out a simpler word. It's theft.

Note: I, too, wouldn't have a problem with this if ESO were still a sub-only game or if ZOS hadn't violated what they explicitly said the sub would be.

I would agree if you didn't also receive crowns every month. It's more of an agreement that you'll by $15 worth of crowns monthly, and receive bonuses due to that. The agreement stayed you get free dlc access. The fact they changed the wording is business, not they, but those words may be interchangeable to some.

tyleranthony8381_ESO · January 2017

I challenge each and every one of you guys to take the time, go to each of your characters and hit /played. That will tell you the time you've gotten out of this game, which obviously won't account for any characters you've deleted over time. Now add up your total costs.

Initial game:$60
3 years of ESO+ membership: $15x36 = $540
Expansion Price: $40
My personal average: 3hrs a day (I'm at work and can't get my /played time but we all know we play more than that): 1095 hrs

$640/1095hrs = $.58c per hour.

I'm more than happy paying $.60c an hour for this game (which includes the price of the expansion I haven't touched yet). Obviously your times and costs will differ based on what versions of the game you bought or will buy but, that's probably a pretty reasonable estimation of your time and cost as well.

Keep the fun comin' Zeni.

-Phyriall

Kendo12 · January 2017

P3ZZL3 wrote: »

Another question @ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_MattFiror

You specifically mention, in the ESO+ Purchase page, that I will receive ALL Future DLC Content. How will I be receiving ALL of this future DLC Content, when it's locked behind a paywall being Morrowind. You do not exclude additional content via expansions - so legally - I think you have to provide the Morrowind access from a DLC perspective

(Disclaimer - not a lawyer - not have I checked these "new" Additional Requirements that seems to be a recent addition....)

Oh snap theres the proof right there

P3ZZL3 · January 2017

As I mentioned above I think the biggest issue is now content that is DLC - which in theory ESO+ should get - is now effectively locked behind a paywall

Ackwalan · January 2017

ZOS should include the past DLC's into price of Morrowind. Would go a long way in customer relations.

Nebthet78 · January 2017

Greevir wrote: »

Since I want the Collectors Edition with all the physical goodies, I have to purchase the full kit which comes with the base game that I already have. Does that mean I will also have to purchase a separate morrowind upgrade for my main account? Or can I apply the physical collectors edition to my current account and end up wasting the base game that comes with the CE?

I'm wondering this too!

Emencie · January 2017

Thestephenmcraeub17_ESO wrote: »

After reading a few more comments, I think many people here have a good point. Promising all future content with an ESO+ subscription was a mistake on ZOS's part if they planned on releasing content that even Plus subscribers would have to buy separately. While I'm sure it would be infeasible to include Morrowind with ESO+, perhaps some kind of deal, or arrangement, or restructuring of what ESO+ actually is would be necessary. For the players who subbed solely for access to future content, the feel is definitely that they have been cheated. For those (like me) who subbed for the other benefits, I at least don't feel like I'm being ripped off. I think it's time to redefine what ESO+ is going forward, so that we don't run into any more issues of what should be included. The terms of ESO+ need to be laid out clear, or changed in ways that everyone (or at least a majority of people) can consider fair. Perhaps people would be more satisfied if ESO+ included more digital convenience items to start to steer it away from being a subscription to bypass expansion costs. Or maybe ZOS should just include the most basic version of Morrowind for ESO+ subscribers.

Except ZOS never promised that... At all.

It clearly says all DLCs will be available.

All DLCs will still be available, this is not a DLC.

Merenwen_812 · January 2017

It clearly says all DLC game packs available in the crown store, as long as Morrowind isn't available in the crown store, ESO+ is not entitled to it.

Personally I don't mind paying $40 for the new chapter if that is the way I go, what I will mind is if I pay the $100 for the collectors edition with statue and need to pay the $40 also to upgrade :P

Iselin · January 2017

Emencie wrote: »

Thestephenmcraeub17_ESO wrote: »

After reading a few more comments, I think many people here have a good point. Promising all future content with an ESO+ subscription was a mistake on ZOS's part if they planned on releasing content that even Plus subscribers would have to buy separately. While I'm sure it would be infeasible to include Morrowind with ESO+, perhaps some kind of deal, or arrangement, or restructuring of what ESO+ actually is would be necessary. For the players who subbed solely for access to future content, the feel is definitely that they have been cheated. For those (like me) who subbed for the other benefits, I at least don't feel like I'm being ripped off. I think it's time to redefine what ESO+ is going forward, so that we don't run into any more issues of what should be included. The terms of ESO+ need to be laid out clear, or changed in ways that everyone (or at least a majority of people) can consider fair. Perhaps people would be more satisfied if ESO+ included more digital convenience items to start to steer it away from being a subscription to bypass expansion costs. Or maybe ZOS should just include the most basic version of Morrowind for ESO+ subscribers.

Except ZOS never promised that... At all.

It clearly says all DLCs will be available.

All DLCs will still be available, this is not a DLC.

Correction: All DLCs they choose to call a DLC and not an "expansion" will still be available

Rohamad_Ali · January 2017

P3ZZL3 wrote: »

Another question @ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_MattFiror

You specifically mention, in the ESO+ Purchase page, that I will receive ALL Future DLC Content. How will I be receiving ALL of this future DLC Content, when it's locked behind a paywall being Morrowind. You do not exclude additional content via expansions - so legally - I think you have to provide the Morrowind access from a DLC perspective

(Disclaimer - not a lawyer - not have I checked these "new" Additional Requirements that seems to be a recent addition....)

This expansion won't be in the crown store . That's how they got around that one .

ereboz · January 2017

This is a great deal. A lot of the big mmo's (WoW, FFIV) require a sub and you have to pay for every expansion, so this isn't anything new. I love this, I think the price tag is fantastic for such a great sounding expansion. Very excited for ESO's future

[Deleted User] · January 2017

The user and all related content has been deleted.

Pallmor · January 2017

P3ZZL3 wrote: »

Another question @ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_MattFiror

You specifically mention, in the ESO+ Purchase page, that I will receive ALL Future DLC Content. How will I be receiving ALL of this future DLC Content, when it's locked behind a paywall being Morrowind. You do not exclude additional content via expansions - so legally - I think you have to provide the Morrowind access from a DLC perspective

(Disclaimer - not a lawyer - not have I checked these "new" Additional Requirements that seems to be a recent addition....)

lol! You've got to read more carefully. It says access to all DLC content available in the Crown Store. This won't be in the Crown Store, so....

bantad87 · January 2017

GawdSB wrote: »

$15 a month for a crafting bag.

1500 crowns is $15...you're paying the price you normally would for those crowns. + access to all current DLC's. A craft bag. 10% more exp, crafting progression, and gold gain. So you basically get everything after the crowns for free.

[Edited to remove baiting comment]

P3ZZL3 · January 2017

Pallmor wrote: »

P3ZZL3 wrote: »

Another question @ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_MattFiror

You specifically mention, in the ESO+ Purchase page, that I will receive ALL Future DLC Content. How will I be receiving ALL of this future DLC Content, when it's locked behind a paywall being Morrowind. You do not exclude additional content via expansions - so legally - I think you have to provide the Morrowind access from a DLC perspective

(Disclaimer - not a lawyer - not have I checked these "new" Additional Requirements that seems to be a recent addition....)

lol! You've got to read more carefully. It says access to all DLC content available in the Crown Store. This won't be in the Crown Store, so....

Ahh, I know MORROWIND will not be - but what about the DLC for it? Will people now only be able to pay for the DLC in Cash?

Mojmir · January 2017

Pallmor wrote: »

P3ZZL3 wrote: »

Another question @ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_MattFiror

You specifically mention, in the ESO+ Purchase page, that I will receive ALL Future DLC Content. How will I be receiving ALL of this future DLC Content, when it's locked behind a paywall being Morrowind. You do not exclude additional content via expansions - so legally - I think you have to provide the Morrowind access from a DLC perspective

(Disclaimer - not a lawyer - not have I checked these "new" Additional Requirements that seems to be a recent addition....)

lol! You've got to read more carefully. It says access to all DLC content available in the Crown Store. This won't be in the Crown Store, so....

Oh it will eventually

FLuFFyxMuFFiN · January 2017

P3ZZL3 wrote: »

Another question @ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_MattFiror

You specifically mention, in the ESO+ Purchase page, that I will receive ALL Future DLC Content. How will I be receiving ALL of this future DLC Content, when it's locked behind a paywall being Morrowind. You do not exclude additional content via expansions - so legally - I think you have to provide the Morrowind access from a DLC perspective

(Disclaimer - not a lawyer - not have I checked these "new" Additional Requirements that seems to be a recent addition....)

Too bad Morrowind won't be a game pack. It's a new chapter (expansion)

TheTwistedRune · January 2017

Emencie wrote: »

Thestephenmcraeub17_ESO wrote: »

After reading a few more comments, I think many people here have a good point. Promising all future content with an ESO+ subscription was a mistake on ZOS's part if they planned on releasing content that even Plus subscribers would have to buy separately. While I'm sure it would be infeasible to include Morrowind with ESO+, perhaps some kind of deal, or arrangement, or restructuring of what ESO+ actually is would be necessary. For the players who subbed solely for access to future content, the feel is definitely that they have been cheated. For those (like me) who subbed for the other benefits, I at least don't feel like I'm being ripped off. I think it's time to redefine what ESO+ is going forward, so that we don't run into any more issues of what should be included. The terms of ESO+ need to be laid out clear, or changed in ways that everyone (or at least a majority of people) can consider fair. Perhaps people would be more satisfied if ESO+ included more digital convenience items to start to steer it away from being a subscription to bypass expansion costs. Or maybe ZOS should just include the most basic version of Morrowind for ESO+ subscribers.

Except ZOS never promised that... At all.

It clearly says all DLCs will be available.

All DLCs will still be available, this is not a DLC.

Well, opinions on what constitutes DLC vary it seems. If it is not DLC just because ZOS say it isn't so they can charge current subscribers for it, that's pretty shady, as an earlier post indicated.

shadoza · January 2017

DaveMoeDee wrote: »

SaRuZ wrote: »

It's an "Expansion Pack." NOT a DLC. Stop being a cheap ass and buy it.

How would someone who paid for a sub for 3 quarters with zero paid DLC be considered cheap? I will have had the same access to the game as them for 9 months without paying a dime. People who kept their subs did so in good faith and then ZOS moved the goal posts. They launched ESO Plus saying people who get access to additional content and now they decide to create a new category of DLC to make them pay additional.

I suppose I could be cynical and say they were stupid for maintaining the sub expecting value. To some degree, I do think that. But not including this still seems sketchy.

$40 is actually less than the cost of 3 quarters worth of DLC even if we use the dungeons as the cost of a single DLC.

Guess, the ESO plus members can cancel their sub for three months, to save money enough to purchase the expansion. That would work, right?

P3ZZL3 · January 2017

FLuFFyxMuFFiN wrote: »

Too bad Morrowind won't be a game pack. It's a new chapter (expansion)

READ what I'm saying...lol

It's about the DLC that will come AFTER the expansion. The T&C's explicitly state I get that content (the DLC's AFTER the expansion) - BUT - I can not play them or use them - as they are locked behind a paywall. Therefore, I am NOT get all DLC

On an additional Note - What DLC are they likely to wrk on that will apply to 1T subscribers who DO NOT buy Morrowind?

Linaleah · January 2017

P3ZZL3 wrote: »

Pallmor wrote: »

P3ZZL3 wrote: »

Another question @ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_MattFiror

You specifically mention, in the ESO+ Purchase page, that I will receive ALL Future DLC Content. How will I be receiving ALL of this future DLC Content, when it's locked behind a paywall being Morrowind. You do not exclude additional content via expansions - so legally - I think you have to provide the Morrowind access from a DLC perspective

(Disclaimer - not a lawyer - not have I checked these "new" Additional Requirements that seems to be a recent addition....)

lol! You've got to read more carefully. It says access to all DLC content available in the Crown Store. This won't be in the Crown Store, so....

Ahh, I know MORROWIND will not be - but what about the DLC for it? Will people now only be able to pay for the DLC in Cash?

my theory is (and I could be wrong) is that it will be grayed out for people without the expansion on their account, the way expansion specific items are grayed out and impossible to buy in GW2 gem store, unless you have expansion added to your account.

mind you, its just a theory.

edited, as pointed out above. cancel ps plus for 3 months, pay for expac, restart ps plus.. profit?

alexkdd99 · January 2017

BlackMadara wrote: »

MasterSpatula wrote: »

Tandor wrote: »

I suppose it was too much to expect everyone to welcome such a major addition to the game like this.

"Waarrgghh! I'm quitting because there's no new content!" quickly becomes "Waarrgghh! I'm quitting because there's new content and I've got to pay for it!"

Personally, I think it's great news and I'm looking forward to it.

Nice try, buddy. But I have been paying for new content I haven't received. Now, they're keeping that money I've paid for new content and releasing that content and insisting I pay for it.

You can throw out your "Waarrgghh!"s all you like, but nothing about that changes the fact that I, by ZOS own agreement, am paying for "all future content." I have already paid for Morrowind.

This is breach of contract. In fact, I'll just go ahead and break out a simpler word. It's theft.

Note: I, too, wouldn't have a problem with this if ESO were still a sub-only game or if ZOS hadn't violated what they explicitly said the sub would be.

I would agree if you didn't also receive crowns every month. It's more of an agreement that you'll by $15 worth of crowns monthly, and receive bonuses due to that. The agreement stayed you get free dlc access. The fact they changed the wording is business, not they, but those words may be interchangeable to some.

But that is not the arrangement that ZOS set. I did not agree to buy crowns with benefit. I agreed to get access to content with benefits. Even in your moving of words I should still have access to future content. Even if I go with the notion I buy crowns every month with the benefit of getting future content, they are still breaking that agreement.

All these people saying it is not a dlc need to look up what dlc means. Downloadable content. Is this content added on to the base game that can be downloaded? Yes!

I guess them excluding it from the crown store is just more salt in the wounds.

I feel the need to throw out that the price is not what makes me feel cheated. I could care less what the price is.

It is the moving of things and renaming to exclude it from eso+ that makes people feel cheated. Again the price is NOT the issue.

P3ZZL3 · January 2017

Linaleah wrote: »

my theory is (and I could be wrong) is that it will be grayed out for people without the expansion on their account, the way expansion specific items are grayed out and impossible to buy in GW2 gem store, unless you have expansion added to your account.

mind you, its just a theory.

This, therefore means, I am NOT getting access to ALL future DLC content

Emencie · January 2017

Iselin wrote: »

Emencie wrote: »

Thestephenmcraeub17_ESO wrote: »

After reading a few more comments, I think many people here have a good point. Promising all future content with an ESO+ subscription was a mistake on ZOS's part if they planned on releasing content that even Plus subscribers would have to buy separately. While I'm sure it would be infeasible to include Morrowind with ESO+, perhaps some kind of deal, or arrangement, or restructuring of what ESO+ actually is would be necessary. For the players who subbed solely for access to future content, the feel is definitely that they have been cheated. For those (like me) who subbed for the other benefits, I at least don't feel like I'm being ripped off. I think it's time to redefine what ESO+ is going forward, so that we don't run into any more issues of what should be included. The terms of ESO+ need to be laid out clear, or changed in ways that everyone (or at least a majority of people) can consider fair. Perhaps people would be more satisfied if ESO+ included more digital convenience items to start to steer it away from being a subscription to bypass expansion costs. Or maybe ZOS should just include the most basic version of Morrowind for ESO+ subscribers.

Except ZOS never promised that... At all.

It clearly says all DLCs will be available.

All DLCs will still be available, this is not a DLC.

Correction: All DLCs they choose to call a DLC and not an "expansion" will still be available

Morrowind has more features in it than any DLC we have seen, including a new class.
New classes and races are a MMO standard for expansions, this is not an ESO thing, This is not a WoW thing, this is not a FF14 thing. This is how the industry is done.

Have you ever played any MMO Ever? Literally MMO that has ever had an expansions has required the player pay for the expansion whether they subscribe or not, if they want to play them.

You just want something for free and you are upset because you cannot have it for free.

P3ZZL3 wrote: »

Pallmor wrote: »

P3ZZL3 wrote: »

Another question @ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_MattFiror

You specifically mention, in the ESO+ Purchase page, that I will receive ALL Future DLC Content. How will I be receiving ALL of this future DLC Content, when it's locked behind a paywall being Morrowind. You do not exclude additional content via expansions - so legally - I think you have to provide the Morrowind access from a DLC perspective

(Disclaimer - not a lawyer - not have I checked these "new" Additional Requirements that seems to be a recent addition....)

lol! You've got to read more carefully. It says access to all DLC content available in the Crown Store. This won't be in the Crown Store, so....

Ahh, I know MORROWIND will not be - but what about the DLC for it? Will people now only be able to pay for the DLC in Cash?

You will likely get the DLCs unlocked, but if you don't have Morrowind you will not be able to access the NPCs that send you to the DLC locations.

King_Ziltoid · January 2017

One thing they still haven't mentioned and won't answer is bag/bank space. If they don't increase the capacity before or on the release of morrowind then I see no point in re-subbing or buying the expansion.

Obviously they are going to add more alchemy, black smithing, clothing, enchanting, woodworking, and provisioning items as well as, monster sets, weapons, armor, motifs etc. Which all takes up considerable space even with the craft bag.

If they did increase the space and character slots substantially then I'll see the value of keeping my sub and buying the expansion otherwise I won't bother.

Linaleah · January 2017

P3ZZL3 wrote: »

Linaleah wrote: »

my theory is (and I could be wrong) is that it will be grayed out for people without the expansion on their account, the way expansion specific items are grayed out and impossible to buy in GW2 gem store, unless you have expansion added to your account.

mind you, its just a theory.

This, therefore means, I am NOT getting access to ALL future DLC content

you do, if you get expansion. again, if this is such a huge issue. cancel ps plus. for 3 month. that pays for morrowind upgrade. get upgrade. restart ps plus. regain acess to all the previous DLC's AND future DLC's. and in any case, you are arguing semantics over a theory. we don't know what future DLC's would be. if they are like current DLC's - they will be separate zones with their own travel points. its just as possible that you WILL gain acess to them and ONLY them. not the warden, not the rest of Morowind expac zones, not the housing in Vvardenfel. just specific DLC zones and their contained stories. which satisfies the agreement to a t.

JR_Returns · January 2017

Well I went to purchase the Digital Collectors Upgrade advertised on the Elder Scrolls Online store for £39.99. Got halfway through the purchase and got shoved to my account page. Started the purchase again only to find the price had magically gone up to £49.99. Very unimpressed, false advertising/sharp practice.
So I've not pre-ordered and may well not do..