Morrowind...and ESO+

vyndral13preub18_ESO

ereboz wrote: »

This is a great deal. A lot of the big mmo's (WoW, FFIV) require a sub and you have to pay for every expansion, so this isn't anything new. I love this, I think the price tag is fantastic for such a great sounding expansion. Very excited for ESO's future

Oh how peoples tune change depending on cause. How many times over the years when i have asked for simple quality of life changes have i been told, 'this is a different kind off mmo!' 'We dont want to be like wow!' 'Wow suck!' ' stop trying to turn us into wow!'

Now being like wow is a good thing. Go figure.

Linaleah

Ackwalan wrote: »

Linaleah wrote: »

P3ZZL3 wrote: »

Linaleah wrote: »

my theory is (and I could be wrong) is that it will be grayed out for people without the expansion on their account, the way expansion specific items are grayed out and impossible to buy in GW2 gem store, unless you have expansion added to your account.

mind you, its just a theory.

This, therefore means, I am NOT getting access to ALL future DLC content

you do, if you get expansion. again, if this is such a huge issue. cancel ps plus. for 3 month. that pays for morrowind upgrade. get upgrade. restart ps plus. regain acess to all the previous DLC's AND future DLC's. and in any case, you are arguing semantics over a theory. we don't know what future DLC's would be. if they are like current DLC's - they will be separate zones with their own travel points. its just as possible that you WILL gain acess to them and ONLY them. not the warden, not the rest of Morowind expac zones, not the housing in Vvardenfel. just specific DLC zones and their contained stories. which satisfies the agreement to a t.

Future DLC will be part chapter two. Morrowind is being sold as chapter two. If you have ESO + and not Morrowind (chapter two) you won't be able to access them.

we don't know. we are extrapolating and assuming. my theories are based on precedence in other games as well as the fact that currently existing DLC packs for ESO are very self contained. they are not continuations of main story in any way (unlike living world chapters in GW2) separate zones, separate travel points, self contained stories. its not a stretch to imagine this being possible to implement for post morrowind DLC's. but.. I guess we shall see.

there is a russian saying that probably has similar english equivalent, but I have trouble thinking of it at the moment. roughly translates as "everything is truly known in comparison" compared to other MMO's on the market.. we get so much more in ESO for so much less. I just have.. hard time with being upset with expansion costing money when its pretty much what i've come to expect as baseline.

MasterSpatula

Emencie wrote: »

You just want something for free and you are upset because you cannot have it for free.

Noooooooo, we're paying for something, not being given it for months, then charged additional money for what we've already been paying for.

But you already know that.

Luigi_Vampa

Evangele wrote: »

alexkdd99 wrote: »

Evangele wrote: »

Meanwhile almost every other mmo charges for expansions on top of their sub fee AND DLC and store purchases. This isn't small DLC, and I think getting all the DLC free with a sub is pretty damn good, not to mention getting crowns every month for stuff to buy in the crown store.

I am more than willing to pay for a FULL EXPANSION. If we want quality content put out in expansions that are large and full conceptualized it needs to be paid for. $40 is literally nothing.

I plan on ordering collector's edition and continuing to support a game that constantly seems to listen to what it's player base is talking about and work towards bettering itself since release.

Bravo, I'm very excited

It is irrelevant. You say one thing and do another. When I signed up for my sub I did so with the understanding that I would have access to future content released.

Even they don't want to call it an expansion as was said in the stream. But they are doing so solely to cheat people out of money.

I don't think it is irrelevant. People don't understand the man hours and effort it takes to create this kind of content along with the regular DLCs they have been releasing, updates, maintenance etc. That is all paid for using subs, which unfortunately ESO doesnt have in comparison to larger games.

For bigger content that is something different than standard DLC, such an expansion based content, I don't see an issue with paying $40 which is basically nothing. Helping a game company pay it's employees to create amazing new things such as MORROWIND for us to play around in, doesnt bother me in the slightest. I've subbed since launch and I get free *** all the time with it which I am happy with, and now I will gladly pay for the next chapter of the game I love.

If you felt like you aren't getting enough for your sub dollars you are free to unsub, that's the beauty of subscriptions, can stop anytime, however then you purchase all the DLC you've already gotten for free. Im sorry if you do not differentiate between DLC and Expansions, but there is a difference. You get access to DLC for free. They very specifically say DLC (and said from the beginning) and not "all future content".

I don't think their intention is to "cheat" people out of money considering you get something for your money and you decide the worth of it. Nobody is forcing you to buy the expansion, nor is anyone forcing you to subscribe.

What is the difference between dlc and expansion?

thedirtypony

Just so I understand this:

Morrowind is being called an expansion but more specifically, a chapter in the expansion. ESO+ appears to not include expansions (i.e., chapters as well). So future expansions or chapters wont fall under ESO+ . My guess is that DLC is over and done with for good and that future content will either be couched as an expansion (or a chapter within an expansion).

Disclaimer: I am a lawyer, and this is not legal advice but it does all seem overly complicated ;-)

#pony

mrs_gibbs

P3ZZL3 wrote: »

Another question @ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_MattFiror

You specifically mention, in the ESO+ Purchase page, that I will receive ALL Future DLC Content. How will I be receiving ALL of this future DLC Content, when it's locked behind a paywall being Morrowind. You do not exclude additional content via expansions - so legally - I think you have to provide the Morrowind access from a DLC perspective



(Disclaimer - not a lawyer - not have I checked these "new" Additional Requirements that seems to be a recent addition....)

Actually Gina said it won't be offered for crowns... And the above says "Access to all DLC packs in the crown store."

Anyway, it's just $40. I think that is well worth it. I'm happy to support the game. If everything was free they wouldn't be able to afford to continue adding/improving. Plus the last couple DLC have been free, so you use the money you saved from the last two. lol

Linaleah

Typhoios wrote: »

Evangele wrote: »

alexkdd99 wrote: »

Evangele wrote: »

Meanwhile almost every other mmo charges for expansions on top of their sub fee AND DLC and store purchases. This isn't small DLC, and I think getting all the DLC free with a sub is pretty damn good, not to mention getting crowns every month for stuff to buy in the crown store.

I am more than willing to pay for a FULL EXPANSION. If we want quality content put out in expansions that are large and full conceptualized it needs to be paid for. $40 is literally nothing.

I plan on ordering collector's edition and continuing to support a game that constantly seems to listen to what it's player base is talking about and work towards bettering itself since release.

Bravo, I'm very excited

It is irrelevant. You say one thing and do another. When I signed up for my sub I did so with the understanding that I would have access to future content released.

Even they don't want to call it an expansion as was said in the stream. But they are doing so solely to cheat people out of money.

I don't think it is irrelevant. People don't understand the man hours and effort it takes to create this kind of content along with the regular DLCs they have been releasing, updates, maintenance etc. That is all paid for using subs, which unfortunately ESO doesnt have in comparison to larger games.

For bigger content that is something different than standard DLC, such an expansion based content, I don't see an issue with paying $40 which is basically nothing. Helping a game company pay it's employees to create amazing new things such as MORROWIND for us to play around in, doesnt bother me in the slightest. I've subbed since launch and I get free *** all the time with it which I am happy with, and now I will gladly pay for the next chapter of the game I love.

If you felt like you aren't getting enough for your sub dollars you are free to unsub, that's the beauty of subscriptions, can stop anytime, however then you purchase all the DLC you've already gotten for free. Im sorry if you do not differentiate between DLC and Expansions, but there is a difference. You get access to DLC for free. They very specifically say DLC (and said from the beginning) and not "all future content".

I don't think their intention is to "cheat" people out of money considering you get something for your money and you decide the worth of it. Nobody is forcing you to buy the expansion, nor is anyone forcing you to subscribe.

What is the difference between dlc and expansion?

scope

TheTwistedRune

Rjizzle09 wrote: »

Like i cant believe how much hate 40 measly bucks for an EXPANSION WITH ALOT OF CONTENT WE BEEN WANTING FOR AGES there is. Like what the heck did yall think eso plus little 15 bucks would get you access to this mega dlc? That would be dumb. They said all future dlc but in their defense this isnt a dlc patch its a freaking expansion so of course youre gonna have to shell out money to buy it like why would people be thinking otherwise this is rediculous. INSTEAD OF BUYING ALL THESE MOUNTS AND COSTUMES AND THE UPCOMING HOUSES SAVE 40 BUCKS FOR THE EXPANSION ITS REALLY SIMPLE. If you seriously cant save 2 bucks a day then something is wrong get a part time job do work around the house anything will get you 40 bucks by june. And again they did not say youll get all future expansions with eso plus they said all future dlc. Dlc and exoansions are not even in the same class so people need to get a grip and stop complaining people spend 40 bucks on beer and weed and cigs but cant pay 40 bucks for something they like to do? Man get outta here

Before you start randomly shelling out disrespectful advice maybe you should look at yourself. Here is some advice for you. Learn how to write properly.

Ackwalan

Linaleah wrote: »

Ackwalan wrote: »

Linaleah wrote: »

P3ZZL3 wrote: »

Linaleah wrote: »

my theory is (and I could be wrong) is that it will be grayed out for people without the expansion on their account, the way expansion specific items are grayed out and impossible to buy in GW2 gem store, unless you have expansion added to your account.

mind you, its just a theory.

This, therefore means, I am NOT getting access to ALL future DLC content

you do, if you get expansion. again, if this is such a huge issue. cancel ps plus. for 3 month. that pays for morrowind upgrade. get upgrade. restart ps plus. regain acess to all the previous DLC's AND future DLC's. and in any case, you are arguing semantics over a theory. we don't know what future DLC's would be. if they are like current DLC's - they will be separate zones with their own travel points. its just as possible that you WILL gain acess to them and ONLY them. not the warden, not the rest of Morowind expac zones, not the housing in Vvardenfel. just specific DLC zones and their contained stories. which satisfies the agreement to a t.

Future DLC will be part chapter two. Morrowind is being sold as chapter two. If you have ESO + and not Morrowind (chapter two) you won't be able to access them.

we don't know. we are extrapolating and assuming. my theories are based on precedence in other games as well as the fact that currently existing DLC packs for ESO are very self contained. they are not continuations of main story in any way (unlike living world chapters in GW2) separate zones, separate travel points, self contained stories. its not a stretch to imagine this being possible to implement for post morrowind DLC's. but.. I guess we shall see.

there is a russian saying that probably has similar english equivalent, but I have trouble thinking of it at the moment. roughly translates as "everything is truly known in comparison" compared to other MMO's on the market.. we get so much more in ESO for so much less. I just have.. hard time with being upset with expansion costing money when its pretty much what i've come to expect as baseline.

We know, we all know. Some just don't want to accept it.

Yolokin_Swagonborn

Screencapping this before it gets changed. Can anyone find some of the old interviews where they talk about ESO plus and the subscription model after Buy to Play?



Well guys, the purchase model is changing AGAIN>

INB4 Semantics argument of "DLC" vs "Expansion"

Wrothgar expanded the game.

Thieves and assassins guild expanded the game.

They are ALL Expansions. They are ALL DLC.

Emencie

Typhoios wrote: »

Evangele wrote: »

alexkdd99 wrote: »

Evangele wrote: »

Meanwhile almost every other mmo charges for expansions on top of their sub fee AND DLC and store purchases. This isn't small DLC, and I think getting all the DLC free with a sub is pretty damn good, not to mention getting crowns every month for stuff to buy in the crown store.

I am more than willing to pay for a FULL EXPANSION. If we want quality content put out in expansions that are large and full conceptualized it needs to be paid for. $40 is literally nothing.

I plan on ordering collector's edition and continuing to support a game that constantly seems to listen to what it's player base is talking about and work towards bettering itself since release.

Bravo, I'm very excited

It is irrelevant. You say one thing and do another. When I signed up for my sub I did so with the understanding that I would have access to future content released.

Even they don't want to call it an expansion as was said in the stream. But they are doing so solely to cheat people out of money.

I don't think it is irrelevant. People don't understand the man hours and effort it takes to create this kind of content along with the regular DLCs they have been releasing, updates, maintenance etc. That is all paid for using subs, which unfortunately ESO doesnt have in comparison to larger games.

For bigger content that is something different than standard DLC, such an expansion based content, I don't see an issue with paying $40 which is basically nothing. Helping a game company pay it's employees to create amazing new things such as MORROWIND for us to play around in, doesnt bother me in the slightest. I've subbed since launch and I get free *** all the time with it which I am happy with, and now I will gladly pay for the next chapter of the game I love.

If you felt like you aren't getting enough for your sub dollars you are free to unsub, that's the beauty of subscriptions, can stop anytime, however then you purchase all the DLC you've already gotten for free. Im sorry if you do not differentiate between DLC and Expansions, but there is a difference. You get access to DLC for free. They very specifically say DLC (and said from the beginning) and not "all future content".

I don't think their intention is to "cheat" people out of money considering you get something for your money and you decide the worth of it. Nobody is forcing you to buy the expansion, nor is anyone forcing you to subscribe.

What is the difference between dlc and expansion?

About $15 worth of content.

P3ZZL3

Balamoor wrote: »

Noooo00000!!!!!!1
jk :-P

I bet after the anger goes away you'll be running around in Morrowind...because Morrowind and ZoS do the mad sales every now and again.

Very unlikely - but if the sale is good enough who knows. If they had priced it at £20-25 - I actually wouldn't have a problem buying the actual "Expansion". I mainly have the issue of the fact that they clearly are not going to invest in T1 DLC as it makes no sense for them. So they now have a paywall that has hit all subscribers *shrugs*

Luigi_Vampa

SaRuZ wrote: »

Omg kids. Long before companies were releasing unfinished products every two years and tossing out "DLC" every 4 to 6 months with bite sized content. There was such a thing called Expansion Packs. The Original Ghost Recon released two Expansion Packs called Desert Siege & Island Thunder. They were both equal to the size of the original game. Wrothgar was a bite sized DLC. Morrowind will be an eight course meal.

DLC and Expansion packs are NOT the same. You subscribed for access to DLC, an exact monthly flow of crowns as is priced the same as one time crown packs. 10% XP increase, plus unlimited STORAGE for mats. Seriously! You GOT what you paid for yet now you feel entitled? To me the sub is a waste of money, other than the craft bag but I manage my storage accordingly.

Haha, an eight course meal? They said 30 hours of content. How the hell to do you consider that to be anywhere near the size of the orginal game? Morrowind isn't as big as you guys are making out.

hingarthuub17_ESO

Linaleah wrote: »

scope

Semantics. Oh, and let's not forget money.

Davor

P3ZZL3 wrote: »

@Davor

And that's actually fine - but you can't access the future DLC either - as you MUST buy Morrowind - and that, my friend, is called a Paywall

This effectively null and voids the ESO+ Future Content benefit to a large extent.

I agree. All I am saying is that is how Zenimax can get away "legally" for doing so.

Taleof2Cities wrote: »

What part of expansion do players not understand?

This isn't a DLC and the OP still refuses to acknowledge that ...

In todays age there is no difference from DLC and expansion. Even Zenimax/Bethesda have said they are the same thing. Dragonbornd DLC, Dawnguard DLC,Shivering Ilse DLC. I thought they were "expansions". Funny Zenimax/Bethesda called the DLC.

There is no difference.

Oreyn_Bearclaw

P3ZZL3 wrote: »

Another question @ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_MattFiror

You specifically mention, in the ESO+ Purchase page, that I will receive ALL Future DLC Content. How will I be receiving ALL of this future DLC Content, when it's locked behind a paywall being Morrowind. You do not exclude additional content via expansions - so legally - I think you have to provide the Morrowind access from a DLC perspective



(Disclaimer - not a lawyer - not have I checked these "new" Additional Requirements that seems to be a recent addition....)

Well this is not a DLC nor is it available in the Crownstore. (Disclaimer - I am a lawyer)

Bigevilpeter

Its b2p not f2p so you need buy the game and the expansions even if u subscribe. The dlc are minor updates not exansions

Merenwen_812

Evangele wrote: »

What is the difference between dlc and expansion?

this person KutuluMike explains it a bit, and think well

DLC - "downloadable content" - is a very broad term for any additional parts of a game that you can obtain from any of the various online vendors. It's generally reserved for official content from the original publisher, to distinguish it from community content. That is, an additional module for Skyrim to add fancy armor for your horse would be a "mod" if a user did it, but "DLC" if Bethesda did it. DLC can also be very big; for Skyrim, both Dawnguard and Hearthfire are DLC and they make extensive changes to the game.

An "expansion pack" is a separate product that builds on top of an existing game to add significant new features. Expansion packs can usually be purchased at retail and installed from CD, and exist separately from their parent game. They are typically "mini games" in their own right, but rely on the content and engine of their original game for much of their content. In Skyrim, Dawnguard is obviously an "expansion pack" - it add new lands, new weapons, new skill trees, etc. I don't know if it's available for retail yet but I would be very surprised if there's not a Skyrim GOTY edition that includes the two expansion packs.

A better example might be Oblivion: there was a handful of DLC released, including horse armor and Knight of the Nine. Later, there was an actual expansion pack - Shivering Isles - that added an entire new land and new features into the game. (The line was blurried a bit when Bethesda packaged all of their DLC onto a CD for retail sale, but it was basically the same as downloading the DLC and burning the archives to to disk.)

With so much game delivery being online these days, and with official downloadable content getting bigger, the line between a "plug-in" and an "expansion pack" is blurring, and all of it would be considered "DLC".

tom5598

eso has always been like this..... i guess the new players are shocked but yes it is a money-grab basicly. generic mmorpg with a es skin so they can milk a wider audiance. that is it and they will keep doing it. they have lied countless times it is not the 1st time.
this sums up the game pretty much:
https://youtu.be/Ov3B26h12C4?t=2m17s

tyleranthony8381_ESO

alexkdd99 wrote: »

tyleranthony8381_ESO wrote: »

I challenge each and every one of you guys to take the time, go to each of your characters and hit /played. That will tell you the time you've gotten out of this game, which obviously won't account for any characters you've deleted over time. Now add up your total costs.

Initial game:$60
3 years of ESO+ membership: $15x36 = $540
Expansion Price: $40
My personal average: 3hrs a day (I'm at work and can't get my /played time but we all know we play more than that): 1095 hrs

$640/1095hrs = $.58c per hour.

I'm more than happy paying $.60c an hour for this game (which includes the price of the expansion I haven't touched yet). Obviously your times and costs will differ based on what versions of the game you bought or will buy but, that's probably a pretty reasonable estimation of your time and cost as well.

Keep the fun comin' Zeni.

-Phyriall

Or take zos exact words and go with it will have 30 hours and divide that by the cost +

Pallmor wrote: »

P3ZZL3 wrote: »

Another question @ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_MattFiror

You specifically mention, in the ESO+ Purchase page, that I will receive ALL Future DLC Content. How will I be receiving ALL of this future DLC Content, when it's locked behind a paywall being Morrowind. You do not exclude additional content via expansions - so legally - I think you have to provide the Morrowind access from a DLC perspective



(Disclaimer - not a lawyer - not have I checked these "new" Additional Requirements that seems to be a recent addition....)

lol! You've got to read more carefully. It says access to all DLC content available in the Crown Store. This won't be in the Crown Store, so....

So really that just makes it all the more shady.

So you'll literally only play this part of the game for 30 hours? And if that's that, then $.75c an hour? Haha. Done and done.

Rohamad_Ali

Since it's just $40 bucks , no big deal , how about buying me the expansion ? It's just $40 more bucks . You are so generous with your money and thank you .

Emencie

P3ZZL3 wrote: »

Balamoor wrote: »

Noooo00000!!!!!!1
jk :-P

I bet after the anger goes away you'll be running around in Morrowind...because Morrowind and ZoS do the mad sales every now and again.

Very unlikely - but if the sale is good enough who knows. If they had priced it at £20-25 - I actually wouldn't have a problem buying the actual "Expansion". I mainly have the issue of the fact that they clearly are not going to invest in T1 DLC as it makes no sense for them. So they now have a paywall that has hit all subscribers *shrugs*

What Paywall are you talking about?

Also

What MMO are you planning to go to that has Free expansions?

FLuFFyxMuFFiN

MasterSpatula wrote: »

Emencie wrote: »

You just want something for free and you are upset because you cannot have it for free.

Noooooooo, we're paying for something, not being given it for months, then charged additional money for what we've already been paying for.

But you already know that.

People playing WoW are required to pay a monthly fee and they still have to pay for the expansions when they release.

Acrolas

Okay, the new issue is that they're claiming you can order it at other retailers when all the other retailers listed aren't offering it for sale or don't have it available.

So it's not even a coordinated launch, which Hines should have been on the phone working on accomplishing instead of being on the live stream talking about a bear.

I'll drop Amazon credit on the CE, because I have credit coming out my *** at this point. But there's no way I would ever accept this system out of pocket. Not when this could have been a DLC.

I almost wish it would have been ESO+ exclusive at this point...

Imhotep71

Its like you people have never played a sub MMO before. Let me break it down for you using WoW.

The DLC are comparable to the content patchs that Blizzard does at no extra cost to subscribers

Morrowind is the equivalent of a WOW Expansion hence the cost regardless of whether you sub or not.

Your sub gets you 1500 crowns, access to the DLC and the mat bag. That is more than enough value for $15.

Learn the difference between DLC and an actual expansion. Life will be easier for you.

BoloBoffin

Davor wrote: »

P3ZZL3 wrote: »

Another question @ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_MattFiror

You specifically mention, in the ESO+ Purchase page, that I will receive ALL Future DLC Content. How will I be receiving ALL of this future DLC Content, when it's locked behind a paywall being Morrowind. You do not exclude additional content via expansions - so legally - I think you have to provide the Morrowind access from a DLC perspective



(Disclaimer - not a lawyer - not have I checked these "new" Additional Requirements that seems to be a recent addition....)

I am not a lawyer either and don't know much about law. But that is how they get away with it. You can't buy Morrowind in the Crown Store, so therefore since it's not in the Crown Store people with ESO+ are not missing out on anything. So everything is legal.

And furthermore, DLC for Morrowwind won't be in your Crown Store if you never bought Morrowwind. That's my guess. If you buy Morrowwind, you'll see the DLC in your CS and thus ESO+ members with the Morrowwind Upgrade will have access without buying the DLC.

R4bb1t

I think ESO+ Users will still get the upcoming DLCs that are made for ESO:Morrowind for free.
But Morrowind itself is a expansion, a Addon.

I hope Zenimax didn't use this as excuse to make smaller areas and sell them as "expansion" in the future.
That are my two cents.

STEVIL

can one buy orsimium and play the game?
can one buy thieves guild and play the game?
can one buy dark brotherhood and play the game?
can one buy shadows of the hist and play the game?
can one buy ESO One tamriel and play the game?
can one buy ESo Morrowind and play the game?

Seems to me, two of these things are not like the other four on a very solid fundamental level.

Subbed since launch - pre-ordered original game.
No prob with the upcoming expansion.
pre-ordered collections digital upgrade after the twitch.
Will continue to sub.

But thats me...

Everyone is unique just like i am..

MasterSpatula

Emencie wrote: »

P3ZZL3 wrote: »

Balamoor wrote: »

Noooo00000!!!!!!1
jk :-P

I bet after the anger goes away you'll be running around in Morrowind...because Morrowind and ZoS do the mad sales every now and again.

Very unlikely - but if the sale is good enough who knows. If they had priced it at £20-25 - I actually wouldn't have a problem buying the actual "Expansion". I mainly have the issue of the fact that they clearly are not going to invest in T1 DLC as it makes no sense for them. So they now have a paywall that has hit all subscribers *shrugs*

What Paywall are you talking about?

Also

What MMO are you planning to go to that has Free expansions?

SWG had paid expansions that became free when the next expansion was released.

SWTOR's expansions are all free to subs.

EDIT: My God, I'm actually comparing other companies unfavorably to SWTOR's business practices. It's come to that.

Phinix1

Lokryn wrote: »

You specifically mention, in the ESO+ Purchase page, that I will receive ALL Future DLC Content. How will I be receiving ALL of this future DLC Content, when it's locked behind a paywall being Morrowind.

The answer is quite simple:

DLC != (is not the same as) EXPANSION

Thieves guild is a DLC. Morrowind is an expansion. Sort of like in WoW (or every other sub game), you get things like new raids and features free with your sub, but when Burning Crusade or Wrath or Pandaria or whatever comes out, you do still have to buy that.

Why should ESO be any different?