Trueflame resources should not give any points.

frozywozy

Anazasi wrote: »

frozywozy wrote: »

Anazasi wrote: »

frozywozy wrote: »

Astanphaeus wrote: »

frozywozy wrote: »

Also, it's quite amusing to see players who participate in 24men ballgroups complain about zerging. Cap your group at 16, then talk. Until that happens, your words will come in one ear and go off the other.

Props to Vokundein, Invictus, Haxus, Flame, Fengrush's squad, K-Hole, Adamant, Rage, Alacrity, No Mercy, Condemned for running medium groups, keeping it clean and competitive until battlegrounds get released.

Like Satiar said, there are zero groups on this list that, while they may specifically have fewer players in their group, haven't stacked with other groups and pugs frequently. Honestly, this self-aggrandizing is pathetic at best.

Easily said, the facts are, they cap at 16. The rest, you can see it in the videos if you browse forums. You will see that they don't need to stack with other guilds to perform well, unlike all the ballgroups who run with 20 players or more because they can't do anything with 16 or less. I just can't wait for the next aoe changes, that shall be alot of fun.

I'm laughing at this statement.

"We're great we only run 16 players in our groups." Sure that's all you have in your group but what's the other 2 raids you are running next to, cannon fodder? Don't pretend no one is buying that lemon you are selling.

Again, this is easily said. Invictus and Haxus have a ton of video footage with the Miat's addon on demonstrating disgusting outnumbered fights 12-16 vs 30-50 but still killing them (without any other EPs around). They are all over these forums.

Where are your 16men group DK clips bro?

I think you forgot to include this part into your screenshot :

frozywozy wrote: »

demonstrating disgusting outnumbered fights 12-16 vs 30-50 but still killing them (without any other EPs around).

While I appreciate the effort to run with a medium group size, linking a screenshot of you dead does prouve that you have alot to learn about that kind of playstyle.

Astanphaeus

frozywozy wrote: »

Anazasi wrote: »

frozywozy wrote: »

Anazasi wrote: »

frozywozy wrote: »

Astanphaeus wrote: »

frozywozy wrote: »

Also, it's quite amusing to see players who participate in 24men ballgroups complain about zerging. Cap your group at 16, then talk. Until that happens, your words will come in one ear and go off the other.

Props to Vokundein, Invictus, Haxus, Flame, Fengrush's squad, K-Hole, Adamant, Rage, Alacrity, No Mercy, Condemned for running medium groups, keeping it clean and competitive until battlegrounds get released.

Like Satiar said, there are zero groups on this list that, while they may specifically have fewer players in their group, haven't stacked with other groups and pugs frequently. Honestly, this self-aggrandizing is pathetic at best.

Easily said, the facts are, they cap at 16. The rest, you can see it in the videos if you browse forums. You will see that they don't need to stack with other guilds to perform well, unlike all the ballgroups who run with 20 players or more because they can't do anything with 16 or less. I just can't wait for the next aoe changes, that shall be alot of fun.

I'm laughing at this statement.

"We're great we only run 16 players in our groups." Sure that's all you have in your group but what's the other 2 raids you are running next to, cannon fodder? Don't pretend no one is buying that lemon you are selling.

Again, this is easily said. Invictus and Haxus have a ton of video footage with the Miat's addon on demonstrating disgusting outnumbered fights 12-16 vs 30-50 but still killing them (without any other EPs around). They are all over these forums.

Where are your 16men group DK clips bro?

I think you forgot to include this part into your screenshot :

frozywozy wrote: »

demonstrating disgusting outnumbered fights 12-16 vs 30-50 but still killing them (without any other EPs around).

While I appreciate the effort to run with a medium group size, linking a screenshot of you dead does prouve that you have alot to learn about that kind of playstyle.

Never seen you do that part, so...

Magus

Frozn stop, you're embarassing yourself.

Remember kids, a 16-man coordinated heal blob does not cause any lag. But a 18 man coordinated heal blob does.

No_True_Scotsman

frozywozy wrote: »

No_True_Scotsman wrote: »

I love that no one takes Frozn seriously lmao

haters gonna hate.

Nope. You zerg surfed hard for years and hollered day in and and day out about your solo/small man chops. People don't take you seriously because it's impossible to take you seriously. It's very kind of Invictus to adopt you. They're good people. Hopefully they rub off!

Telel

OOo are we posting clips of our medium sized PUG groups now?


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nf5U-a72rPw&t=21s

Sureshawt

I really don't get the hate for massive PvP encounters as I find it epic. I love the unpredictability of the battlefield as it adds to the excitement. I never know what to expect and I also usually get a little of everything from small scale to largescale and everything in between.

Hell if I wanted canned PvP I would be playing the MMOs that offer arena or battlegrounds where everything is predictable and even....and for me boring after a time.

I only wish the game performed better under the largescale engagements.

frozywozy

Joy_Division wrote: »

Oh look, it's Frozn trying to shame other players from artificially capping their groups even though I often see his small man in an EP faction stack.

Where do you see me trying to shame other people? I didn't shame anybody. It's the other way around. I gave credit to specific guilds who show efforts, discipline and consideration for good server performances. People came back on me and have been trying to shame me in the last pages because they refuse to accept the reality. Want more proofs? Look at who participated in the only 12players guild vs guild challenges that were ever organized in this game since release. Again, Haxus, Invictus, Nemesis, Rage, K-hole. The same guilds who have shown or still show good behaviours.

No_True_Scotsman

It's ok if he's nut to butt with 80 EP as long as they're composed of mostly 16 person groups. It's just a bunch of 16 person groups in the same place! God forbid any of those groups gain 8 people though ... then they might lag the server.

frozywozy

Telel wrote: »

frozywozy wrote: »

Telel wrote: »

ChrisXO wrote: »

frozywozy wrote: »

Also, it's quite amusing to see players who participate in 24men ballgroups complain about zerging. Cap your group at 16, then talk. Until that happens, your words will come in one ear and go off the other.

I've long thought a campaign ruleset that capped groups at 12 or 16 would be fun and perhaps help with performance.

Which would be fine if the ratio of group leaders to LFG spammers wasn't as terrible as it is now.

You can't really expect all those hand holders and newbs to spread out unless people stop being elfish and take some time to grab a few and drag them off for a bit of education.

Again, there is a big difference between a 24men group of pugs running mostly single target abilities, without max cps and an organized 24men ballgroup using teamspeak communication to synchronize ultimate drops, prox dets and aoes all together. The last one causes alot more performance issues.

However that does not do much to resolve the very real fact that there is a decided shortage of people willing, and competent, enough to grab some randoms and try to drag them away from the big fights. Which is what is required if people honestly want to spread their faction out across the map.

I'm not sure where you are coming from introducing this new aspect into the conversation regarding pug herding but I do agree that you show enormous efforts and that every faction should be grateful for players who step up to invite from zone random players. Not everybody have the will, the determination and the patience to accomplish such a task. I have done it during the Wabbajack days every morning against the AD reign. It was rough. Props for that Telel.

In the rest of your post, you mention that said blobers should take the example and form such groups instead of complaining. Dude, I though you were aware of my past and what I've done to help my faction as a player. I have been the leader of the PVP dept. of Vokundein, one of the few remaining PVP guilds who have been around since pre-release. The guild is sadly, no longer a hardcore PVP guild but we still run one official event once a week on thursdays now. Most players who participate are either new welps or people who play only once a week. I give quite frequently dedicated training sessions to anyone who have questions regarding their builds, Cyrodiil strategies and different aspects of the game. Sometimes in whispers, sometimes in Teamspeak or Discord. I have had my share of playing with casuals Telel, you're not the only one.

Telel

frozywozy wrote: »

Telel wrote: »

frozywozy wrote: »

Telel wrote: »

ChrisXO wrote: »

frozywozy wrote: »

Also, it's quite amusing to see players who participate in 24men ballgroups complain about zerging. Cap your group at 16, then talk. Until that happens, your words will come in one ear and go off the other.

I've long thought a campaign ruleset that capped groups at 12 or 16 would be fun and perhaps help with performance.

Which would be fine if the ratio of group leaders to LFG spammers wasn't as terrible as it is now.

You can't really expect all those hand holders and newbs to spread out unless people stop being elfish and take some time to grab a few and drag them off for a bit of education.

Again, there is a big difference between a 24men group of pugs running mostly single target abilities, without max cps and an organized 24men ballgroup using teamspeak communication to synchronize ultimate drops, prox dets and aoes all together. The last one causes alot more performance issues.

However that does not do much to resolve the very real fact that there is a decided shortage of people willing, and competent, enough to grab some randoms and try to drag them away from the big fights. Which is what is required if people honestly want to spread their faction out across the map.

I'm not sure where you are coming from introducing this new aspect into the conversation regarding pug herding but I do agree that you show enormous efforts and that every faction should be grateful for players who step up to invite from zone random players. Not everybody have the will, the determination and the patience to accomplish such a task. I have done it during the Wabbajack days every morning against the AD reign. It was rough. Props for that Telel.

In the rest of your post, you mention that said blobers should take the example and form such groups instead of complaining. Dude, I though you were aware of my past and what I've done to help my faction as a player. I have been the leader of the PVP dept. of Vokundein, one of the few remaining PVP guilds who have been around since pre-release. The guild is sadly, no longer a hardcore PVP guild but we still run one official event once a week on thursdays now. Most players who participate are either new welps or people who play only once a week. I give quite frequently dedicated training sessions to anyone who have questions regarding their builds, Cyrodiil strategies and different aspects of the game. Sometimes in whispers, sometimes in Teamspeak or Discord. I have had my share of playing with casuals Telel, you're not the only one.

Someone wrote a 'let's force a cap to prevent zerging' comment.

Khajiit responded to that with 'we need more group leaders for that to work or randoms and newbs will jut blob anyways'.

Then you said something, and khajiit said something, then again with that stuff already said about what we're saying...

Now we're here.

But none of the other people who want to have smaller group caps have spoken up to say they'll be doing much in the way of helping with the leadership shortage. It is much sadness yes?

Esgameplaya1

Anazasi please explain why you posted your screen shots again. Are you trying point out that dc zergs, or just that people just don't spread out? I could post the same screen shot except with 65 AD vs 20DC.

Satiar

Esgameplaya1 wrote: »

Anazasi please explain why you posted your screen shots again. Are you trying point out that dc zergs, or just that people just don't spread out? I could post the same screen shot except with 65 AD vs 20DC.

I think he was trying to show his group size to Frozn.

NACtron

frozywozy wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

Oh look, it's Frozn trying to shame other players from artificially capping their groups even though I often see his small man in an EP faction stack.

Where do you see me trying to shame other people? I didn't shame anybody. It's the other way around. I gave credit to specific guilds who show efforts, discipline and consideration for good server performances. People came back on me and have been trying to shame me in the last pages because they refuse to accept the reality. Want more proofs? Look at who participated in the only 12players guild vs guild challenges that were ever organized in this game since release. Again, Haxus, Invictus, Nemesis, Rage, K-hole. The same guilds who have shown or still show good behaviours.

All those guilds are great guilds. Full of skilled and talented players. They should be commended for their skill and as something players should strive towards. Their skill speaks for itself. However proping them up cause they run at or below a particular number and that demonstrates "good behaviour" has a really strong "holier than thou" vibe to it.

You have to admit someone who is reading this who is not a member of the few guilds that show "displine and consideration for good server performances" could come away with the thought that you are trying to shame them.

frozywozy

Astanphaeus wrote: »

frozywozy wrote: »

Anazasi wrote: »

frozywozy wrote: »

Anazasi wrote: »

frozywozy wrote: »

Astanphaeus wrote: »

frozywozy wrote: »

Also, it's quite amusing to see players who participate in 24men ballgroups complain about zerging. Cap your group at 16, then talk. Until that happens, your words will come in one ear and go off the other.

Props to Vokundein, Invictus, Haxus, Flame, Fengrush's squad, K-Hole, Adamant, Rage, Alacrity, No Mercy, Condemned for running medium groups, keeping it clean and competitive until battlegrounds get released.

Like Satiar said, there are zero groups on this list that, while they may specifically have fewer players in their group, haven't stacked with other groups and pugs frequently. Honestly, this self-aggrandizing is pathetic at best.

Easily said, the facts are, they cap at 16. The rest, you can see it in the videos if you browse forums. You will see that they don't need to stack with other guilds to perform well, unlike all the ballgroups who run with 20 players or more because they can't do anything with 16 or less. I just can't wait for the next aoe changes, that shall be alot of fun.

I'm laughing at this statement.

"We're great we only run 16 players in our groups." Sure that's all you have in your group but what's the other 2 raids you are running next to, cannon fodder? Don't pretend no one is buying that lemon you are selling.

Again, this is easily said. Invictus and Haxus have a ton of video footage with the Miat's addon on demonstrating disgusting outnumbered fights 12-16 vs 30-50 but still killing them (without any other EPs around). They are all over these forums.

Where are your 16men group DK clips bro?

I think you forgot to include this part into your screenshot :

frozywozy wrote: »

demonstrating disgusting outnumbered fights 12-16 vs 30-50 but still killing them (without any other EPs around).

While I appreciate the effort to run with a medium group size, linking a screenshot of you dead does prouve that you have alot to learn about that kind of playstyle.

Never seen you do that part, so...

These are some clips from yesterday's Invictus raid nite.

Mako1132

I only play with 12 or less (for the most part) cause I like the challenge not really because of performance issues. I know this is the case for K-hole too as well as some of the guilds listed who no longer play anymore.

frozywozy

Magus wrote: »

Frozn stop, you're embarassing yourself.

Remember kids, a 16-man coordinated heal blob does not cause any lag. But a 18 man coordinated heal blob does.

This topic has been covered several times last year in multiple threads regarding medium VS large organized group play. Here is a quick reminder of my dozens of replies covering the subject plain and simple. It is not because you run a 16men group that you are not responsable for the latency happening on the server and it's also not because you run a 24men group that you should take all the blame either. 16 is, in my opinion, the perfect balance between enough healing and damage proportions to face larger groups successfully VS the impact of your behaviours on the server.

Here is a nice graphic from NCES Kids zone that demonstrates it with such details and much wow.



This scenario illustrates any typical battle of 2 organized groups of X players max cps with all the passives unlocked, running multiple proc sets engaging each other with massive aoes, timed prox detonations and ultimate bombs.

Hope that helps to clear all the confusion.

frozywozy

No_True_Scotsman wrote: »

frozywozy wrote: »

No_True_Scotsman wrote: »

I love that no one takes Frozn seriously lmao

haters gonna hate.

Nope. You zerg surfed hard for years and hollered day in and and day out about your solo/small man chops. People don't take you seriously because it's impossible to take you seriously. It's very kind of Invictus to adopt you. They're good people. Hopefully they rub off!

Wait, who are you again? You seem to know alot about my teso career. What is your alliance rank? Are you aware that 90% of Invictus members are players I have been grouping with since release in guilds such as Hijinx, Imperator Rebelium, Nexus, Guild of Shadows? Nice attempt on shaming.

Satiar

frozywozy wrote: »

No_True_Scotsman wrote: »

frozywozy wrote: »

No_True_Scotsman wrote: »

I love that no one takes Frozn seriously lmao

haters gonna hate.

Nope. You zerg surfed hard for years and hollered day in and and day out about your solo/small man chops. People don't take you seriously because it's impossible to take you seriously. It's very kind of Invictus to adopt you. They're good people. Hopefully they rub off!

Wait, who are you again? You seem to know alot about my teso career. What is your alliance rank? Are you aware that 90% of Invictus members are players I have been grouping with since release in guilds such as Hijinx, Imperator Rebelium, Nexus, Guild of Shadows? Nice attempt on shaming.

I mean, none of those groups capped or cap at 16 so, what does it matter?

Don't forget your proud days as a VE zergling!

Elong

Not this old argument again

I'm going back on forum hiatus again.

No_True_Scotsman

Satiar wrote: »

frozywozy wrote: »

No_True_Scotsman wrote: »

frozywozy wrote: »

No_True_Scotsman wrote: »

I love that no one takes Frozn seriously lmao

haters gonna hate.

Nope. You zerg surfed hard for years and hollered day in and and day out about your solo/small man chops. People don't take you seriously because it's impossible to take you seriously. It's very kind of Invictus to adopt you. They're good people. Hopefully they rub off!

Wait, who are you again? You seem to know alot about my teso career. What is your alliance rank? Are you aware that 90% of Invictus members are players I have been grouping with since release in guilds such as Hijinx, Imperator Rebelium, Nexus, Guild of Shadows? Nice attempt on shaming.

I mean, none of those groups capped or cap at 16 so, what does it matter?

Don't forget your proud days as a VE zergling!

Yeah. Back then he commended VE for being organized. Now, facing the exact same circumstances that he previously played in, his tone has dramatically changed. Curious, isn't it?

No_True_Scotsman

Elong wrote: »

Not this old argument again

I'm going back on forum hiatus again.

Just wait until the battleground balance salt threads start. I remember how bad it was in previous games ...

Celas_Dranacea

Personally I don't have time to criticize other people's play styles all day long

Astanphaeus

frozywozy wrote: »

Astanphaeus wrote: »

frozywozy wrote: »

Anazasi wrote: »

frozywozy wrote: »

Anazasi wrote: »

frozywozy wrote: »

Astanphaeus wrote: »

frozywozy wrote: »

Also, it's quite amusing to see players who participate in 24men ballgroups complain about zerging. Cap your group at 16, then talk. Until that happens, your words will come in one ear and go off the other.

Props to Vokundein, Invictus, Haxus, Flame, Fengrush's squad, K-Hole, Adamant, Rage, Alacrity, No Mercy, Condemned for running medium groups, keeping it clean and competitive until battlegrounds get released.

Like Satiar said, there are zero groups on this list that, while they may specifically have fewer players in their group, haven't stacked with other groups and pugs frequently. Honestly, this self-aggrandizing is pathetic at best.

Easily said, the facts are, they cap at 16. The rest, you can see it in the videos if you browse forums. You will see that they don't need to stack with other guilds to perform well, unlike all the ballgroups who run with 20 players or more because they can't do anything with 16 or less. I just can't wait for the next aoe changes, that shall be alot of fun.

I'm laughing at this statement.

"We're great we only run 16 players in our groups." Sure that's all you have in your group but what's the other 2 raids you are running next to, cannon fodder? Don't pretend no one is buying that lemon you are selling.

Again, this is easily said. Invictus and Haxus have a ton of video footage with the Miat's addon on demonstrating disgusting outnumbered fights 12-16 vs 30-50 but still killing them (without any other EPs around). They are all over these forums.

Where are your 16men group DK clips bro?

I think you forgot to include this part into your screenshot :

frozywozy wrote: »

demonstrating disgusting outnumbered fights 12-16 vs 30-50 but still killing them (without any other EPs around).

While I appreciate the effort to run with a medium group size, linking a screenshot of you dead does prouve that you have alot to learn about that kind of playstyle.

Never seen you do that part, so...

These are some clips from yesterday's Invictus raid nite.

I only watched the first two vids because I got bored, but in the first one I see you leaving a keep as it gets taken by a group of not dead DC, and in the second I see you fighting a highly spread out and unorganized group where the amount of enemy you re engaged with at any given time is not bigger than you. So I wouldn't say either of them prove your point.

frozywozy

No_True_Scotsman wrote: »

Satiar wrote: »

frozywozy wrote: »

No_True_Scotsman wrote: »

frozywozy wrote: »

No_True_Scotsman wrote: »

I love that no one takes Frozn seriously lmao

haters gonna hate.

Nope. You zerg surfed hard for years and hollered day in and and day out about your solo/small man chops. People don't take you seriously because it's impossible to take you seriously. It's very kind of Invictus to adopt you. They're good people. Hopefully they rub off!

Wait, who are you again? You seem to know alot about my teso career. What is your alliance rank? Are you aware that 90% of Invictus members are players I have been grouping with since release in guilds such as Hijinx, Imperator Rebelium, Nexus, Guild of Shadows? Nice attempt on shaming.

I mean, none of those groups capped or cap at 16 so, what does it matter?

Don't forget your proud days as a VE zergling!

Yeah. Back then he commended VE for being organized. Now, facing the exact same circumstances that he previously played in, his tone has dramatically changed. Curious, isn't it?

Funny how you easily switched from argumenting that "you are lucky to have joined Invictus and it is very kind of them to have let you join" to "hey, you used to run in larger groups before and now your tone has changed on it". Sounds like you don't know what to say anymore regarding the poor attempt on shaming.

I also commented regarding my behaviours prior of 1.6 when the server was running alot smoother because of several reasons like missing cp passives for most players and proc sets non existent as Brian Wheeler pointed out quite recently in the Campaign Performances thread. I really enjoyed playing in 24men groups back in IR and Hijinx. It was amazing and the server ping was barely spiking at all.

I gave it a go again twice running in a 24men group with Guild of Shadows right before they disbanded a few months ago and then afterward with Darkest Requiem and just moving around the ping was sitting at a constant 300ms. I really didn't enjoy it and haven't been part of any group larger than 18 ever since.

frozywozy

Astanphaeus wrote: »

frozywozy wrote: »

Astanphaeus wrote: »

frozywozy wrote: »

Anazasi wrote: »

frozywozy wrote: »

Anazasi wrote: »

frozywozy wrote: »

Astanphaeus wrote: »

frozywozy wrote: »

Also, it's quite amusing to see players who participate in 24men ballgroups complain about zerging. Cap your group at 16, then talk. Until that happens, your words will come in one ear and go off the other.

Props to Vokundein, Invictus, Haxus, Flame, Fengrush's squad, K-Hole, Adamant, Rage, Alacrity, No Mercy, Condemned for running medium groups, keeping it clean and competitive until battlegrounds get released.

Like Satiar said, there are zero groups on this list that, while they may specifically have fewer players in their group, haven't stacked with other groups and pugs frequently. Honestly, this self-aggrandizing is pathetic at best.

Easily said, the facts are, they cap at 16. The rest, you can see it in the videos if you browse forums. You will see that they don't need to stack with other guilds to perform well, unlike all the ballgroups who run with 20 players or more because they can't do anything with 16 or less. I just can't wait for the next aoe changes, that shall be alot of fun.

I'm laughing at this statement.

"We're great we only run 16 players in our groups." Sure that's all you have in your group but what's the other 2 raids you are running next to, cannon fodder? Don't pretend no one is buying that lemon you are selling.

Again, this is easily said. Invictus and Haxus have a ton of video footage with the Miat's addon on demonstrating disgusting outnumbered fights 12-16 vs 30-50 but still killing them (without any other EPs around). They are all over these forums.

Where are your 16men group DK clips bro?

I think you forgot to include this part into your screenshot :

frozywozy wrote: »

demonstrating disgusting outnumbered fights 12-16 vs 30-50 but still killing them (without any other EPs around).

While I appreciate the effort to run with a medium group size, linking a screenshot of you dead does prouve that you have alot to learn about that kind of playstyle.

Never seen you do that part, so...

These are some clips from yesterday's Invictus raid nite.

I only watched the first two vids because I got bored, but in the first one I see you leaving a keep as it gets taken by a group of not dead DC, and in the second I see you fighting a highly spread out and unorganized group where the amount of enemy you re engaged with at any given time is not bigger than you. So I wouldn't say either of them prove your point.

During each engagement shown in the clips, we engage more than double of our numbers and get between 25 and 75kills per clip. The first clip demonstrates us killing more than 30 players with 12 while engaging over 40 of them.

Sounds like another poor attempt at shaming.

Elong

No_True_Scotsman wrote: »

Elong wrote: »

Not this old argument again

I'm going back on forum hiatus again.

Just wait until the battleground balance salt threads start. I remember how bad it was in previous games ...

Oh lordy, all of ESO's unbalance about to be exposed in one new battleground.

aidenmoore

Oh Frozy, do not stop being you. [SNIp]

[Edited for bait]

Dyride

frozywozy wrote: »

Magus wrote: »

Frozn stop, you're embarassing yourself.

Remember kids, a 16-man coordinated heal blob does not cause any lag. But a 18 man coordinated heal blob does.

This topic has been covered several times last year in multiple threads regarding medium VS large organized group play...

Let me just stop you right there and say the popular consensus has always been that: more absolute number of players on all sides of a conflict, the higher the potential lag.

Don't try to create a false consensus of large groups vs stacked groups/pugs having larger ping effects per person. Whether it is multi-faction stacks or last emp keeps, absolute numbers do however generate lag.

ZoS is the only entity who would have the data to draw any result and their tacit agreement is 24 person groups are totally fine.

I wouldn't care if they did lower the group cap even if it was 12 or 16. But until they do, the fact ZoS hasn't lowered the maximum group size suggests it isn't the problem.

[SNIp]

[Edited for rude comment]

ZOS_JohanaB

A few comments have been removed from the conversation. Try not to post anymore salt memes as they add little to the conversation.

Ghost-Shot

This thread is amusing, please continue.