PTS Patch Notes v2.7.3

Syiccal

look at stamplar sustain and passivs and compare it to a dk,nb, or stam sorc and you will see how much zos doesn't want stamplar on the battlefield.
jabs being undodgeable is nice but still cost alot even with 20% cost reduction.
40% speed buff to javelin won't matter to much as it's dodges most the time anyways which isn't much good for such an expensive skill

Tyrion87

Nefaras wrote: »

Tyrion87 wrote: »

Shadzilla wrote: »

Still no stamina love for pve??? @ZOS_GinaBruno You guys should make another icon on leaderboards right beside class that indicates Mag or Stam. Then take a look and give your head a shake when u see 90-95% Mag toons on the leaderboards.

Wierd, I have a feeling like we would play two different games... Most people of my vet trial raid groups are melee or bow users with about 3-4 magicka users. And it's always the same no matter which raid/guild/group I join. So people complaining about stamina efficiency should stop spread lies.

As far as I remember after DB update stamina characters were considered stronger and they were being taken to vet trial groups more willingly. Please, enlighten me then what has changed since DB that made stamina users weaker than magicka ones? After DB people were complaining about imbalance between magicka and stamina (that magicka is weaker). That's why we were hoping for some balance changes. And as we expected magicka users finally got some love and it was obvious that such love will be given at the expense of stamina. It just had to happen. With previous updates stamina users got many buffs and people were happy they got something. And now, when there are some tweaks to magicka, stamina users claim that they are totally ruined/useless... I'm curious then, if stamina is so bad right now why the dps requirements for many end game guilds are always higher by about 5k for stamina than for magicka?

My point is why people always need to complain about something? I think that ZOS will never ever satisfy players in a way that both magicka and stamina users will say that they are both good.

First: Look @ leaderboard ask the guilds how many stam setups they run, than think again.

Stam can clear the content, but underperform in competetiv play. Of course pug groups Run stam and there are many (new) players Who like the play as stam. But if you want to run the content in a competetiv environment you need magika and thats it. Magika give have shield and aoe without loosing st dps.

But I already wrote that my opinion was based on my experience with guild raids where most people play stam while we do trials. And yes, we can get into leaderboards. Maybe not at the top but still. Magicka has shields and aoe, but stamina has single target. Magicka is ranged but bow is also ranged. Both magicka and stamina have their strong points and where magicka is weak, stamina is better and vice versa. I think that the "selection of players" for vet trials made by top tier guilds should not be the argument for making any changes related to combat.

Zenzuki

Skellies can now stack to 200...

Are these things considered "consumables" for the end user?

Or does this mean crafters can stack this many up to sell?

H4RDFOX

DK's get buffs to make it even more difficult to take them down, yet other classes like the nightblade can't get any buffs, only nerfs? Increase in range?? Yea, favored classes, and NB's were crapped on because of their class signature abilities. What are you guys doing?

raasdal

Damn it! Nerfed the War Enchanter. And nerfed it hard! From 330 AP to 15.000 AP for a single Repora Rune? I agree it was too cheap at 330 AP - way too cheap. But setting the price at 3x what is was the last time it was offered for AP (5.000 AP) is insane!

Xvorg

H4RDFOX wrote: »

DK's get buffs to make it even more difficult to take them down, yet other classes like the nightblade can't get any buffs, only nerfs? Increase in range?? Yea, favored classes, and NB's were crapped on because of their class signature abilities. What are you guys doing?

Hmmm, I'm afraid that a DK that's difficult to take down is also a DK that uses wet noodles.

Anyway, I agree that mageblades need some love beyond the increase ranged of impale (though I'm considering a build with it)

Glamdring

Tyrion87 wrote: »

Shadzilla wrote: »

Still no stamina love for pve??? @ZOS_GinaBruno You guys should make another icon on leaderboards right beside class that indicates Mag or Stam. Then take a look and give your head a shake when u see 90-95% Mag toons on the leaderboards.

Wierd, I have a feeling like we would play two different games... Most people of my vet trial raid groups are melee or bow users with about 3-4 magicka users. And it's always the same no matter which raid/guild/group I join. So people complaining about stamina efficiency should stop spread lies.

As far as I remember after DB update stamina characters were considered stronger and they were being taken to vet trial groups more willingly. Please, enlighten me then what has changed since DB that made stamina users weaker than magicka ones? After DB people were complaining about imbalance between magicka and stamina (that magicka is weaker). That's why we were hoping for some balance changes. And as we expected magicka users finally got some love and it was obvious that such love will be given at the expense of stamina. It just had to happen. With previous updates stamina users got many buffs and people were happy they got something. And now, when there are some tweaks to magicka, stamina users claim that they are totally ruined/useless... I'm curious then, if stamina is so bad right now why the dps requirements for many end game guilds are always higher by about 5k for stamina than for magicka?

My point is why people always need to complain about something? I think that ZOS will never ever satisfy players in a way that both magicka and stamina users will say that they are both good.

?!?!?! Ofc stam nb can be used outside ganking in pvp and farming mats. I am talkning about competetive endgame though not the casual everyday puggroups and if u see 1 out of 10 stam nbs in there its good.

Izaki

Zos please for the love of whatever you love, buffstamina builds in PvE...

Izaki

OrphanHelgen wrote: »

Gonna write a stamina complain thread everyday until next "balance" patch. Prepare to hate me already.

I'll do the same thing. Remember to make ridiculous, false statements about the DPS difference (I've seen people claim that stam was pulling 20k more single target DPS than mag back in SotH).

DangerMan

There's been multiple threads about problems with stamina, yet there's been no response from ZOS. I guess they just don't care anymore..

@ZOS_GinaBruno

jpeter88

Tyrion87 wrote: »

Shadzilla wrote: »

Still no stamina love for pve??? @ZOS_GinaBruno You guys should make another icon on leaderboards right beside class that indicates Mag or Stam. Then take a look and give your head a shake when u see 90-95% Mag toons on the leaderboards.

Wierd, I have a feeling like we would play two different games... Most people of my vet trial raid groups are melee or bow users with about 3-4 magicka users. And it's always the same no matter which raid/guild/group I join. So people complaining about stamina efficiency should stop spread lies.

As far as I remember after DB update stamina characters were considered stronger and they were being taken to vet trial groups more willingly. Please, enlighten me then what has changed since DB that made stamina users weaker than magicka ones? After DB people were complaining about imbalance between magicka and stamina (that magicka is weaker). That's why we were hoping for some balance changes. And as we expected magicka users finally got some love and it was obvious that such love will be given at the expense of stamina. It just had to happen. With previous updates stamina users got many buffs and people were happy they got something. And now, when there are some tweaks to magicka, stamina users claim that they are totally ruined/useless... I'm curious then, if stamina is so bad right now why the dps requirements for many end game guilds are always higher by about 5k for stamina than for magicka?

My point is why people always need to complain about something? I think that ZOS will never ever satisfy players in a way that both magicka and stamina users will say that they are both good.

Nobody is saying you cant bring stamina to end game trials and beat it, we are saying you cant bring stamina to end game trials and expect to hit leaderboard runs because stamina does not do enough AOE. bring 8 stamina DPS into vet maw and see how well that goes. Honestly the best way to balance classes for pve is to see how they perform in the end game content because thats where the strength and weaknesses are really seen. stamina having 5k more dps a second on SINGLE target is not enough to overcome everything else they lack in.

DangerMan

jpeter88 wrote: »

Tyrion87 wrote: »

Shadzilla wrote: »

Still no stamina love for pve??? @ZOS_GinaBruno You guys should make another icon on leaderboards right beside class that indicates Mag or Stam. Then take a look and give your head a shake when u see 90-95% Mag toons on the leaderboards.

Wierd, I have a feeling like we would play two different games... Most people of my vet trial raid groups are melee or bow users with about 3-4 magicka users. And it's always the same no matter which raid/guild/group I join. So people complaining about stamina efficiency should stop spread lies.

As far as I remember after DB update stamina characters were considered stronger and they were being taken to vet trial groups more willingly. Please, enlighten me then what has changed since DB that made stamina users weaker than magicka ones? After DB people were complaining about imbalance between magicka and stamina (that magicka is weaker). That's why we were hoping for some balance changes. And as we expected magicka users finally got some love and it was obvious that such love will be given at the expense of stamina. It just had to happen. With previous updates stamina users got many buffs and people were happy they got something. And now, when there are some tweaks to magicka, stamina users claim that they are totally ruined/useless... I'm curious then, if stamina is so bad right now why the dps requirements for many end game guilds are always higher by about 5k for stamina than for magicka?

My point is why people always need to complain about something? I think that ZOS will never ever satisfy players in a way that both magicka and stamina users will say that they are both good.

Nobody is saying you cant bring stamina to end game trials and beat it, we are saying you cant bring stamina to end game trials and expect to hit leaderboard runs because stamina does not do enough AOE. bring 8 stamina DPS into vet maw and see how well that goes. Honestly the best way to balance classes for pve is to see how they perform in the end game content because thats where the strength and weaknesses are really seen. stamina having 5k more dps a second on SINGLE target is not enough to overcome everything else they lack in.

Exactly this. I wrote a detailed reply in another thread, let me copy/paste it here for Tyrion.

Stamina classes:
1) Barely any group utility
2) No shields. As a melee character - good luck with survivability.
3) No possibility for range - if a fight forces you to go ranged, good luck pulling over 5k dps.
4) Barely any AoEs - 75% of vet trials fights have some sort of adds. Yes, single target damage Stamina pulls 5k higher, but have you ever compared their AoE damage to their Magicka counterparts?

Magicka classes on the other hand:
1) Utility part of their rotation, be it synergies to proc stuff, skills that give resources back(shards), or damage skills that heal group.
2) Harness Magicka lol. Plus see point #3 below.
3) Full of ranged skills. Swap out some skills and DPS barely takes a hit.
4) 90% of the skills are AoE skills.

Most importantly, Magicka characters pull 5k or so less dps on SINGLE TARGET FIGHTS. On multiple targets they easily out-dps stamina. Now we're not saying you can't complete vet trials on stamina - I've cleared all content on my Stam DK and my Stam Sorc. Heck, give me a 12 man StamPlar team and I can guarantee you I'll clear pretty much any Vet trial besides vMoL lol.

But good luck getting into any end-game leaderboard trial runs as a Stam character.

MarrazzMist

There's a lot to like, thank you!

Olauron

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

FIXES & IMPROVEMENTS, BASE GAME PATCH

Furnishers

• All furnishings in Cyrodiil are now sold for Alliance Points instead of gold.

[sarcasm]That's just GREAT.[/sarcasm]
So now you are locking a PVE achievement furniture behind a PVP-wall. See attachments.

jcaceresw

Olauron wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

FIXES & IMPROVEMENTS, BASE GAME PATCH

Furnishers

• All furnishings in Cyrodiil are now sold for Alliance Points instead of gold.

[sarcasm]That's just GREAT.[/sarcasm]
So now you are locking a PVE achievement furniture behind a PVP-wall. See attachments.

That is just so bad. Please ZOS, reconsider it. All housing achievements need to be completed doing PVE activities.

Nefaras

Nobody cares about housing if the whole game have broken ***

NeillMcAttack

Any chance the target skeleton could get some kind of leaderboard attached. That would be pretty awesome if it had like a top 20 DPS scores attached.

mr_wazzabi

Mayrael wrote: »

Awesome changes Strife - its more of a fix than nerf, this skill is spamable, barely visible, gives HOT, and it hits stronger than force shock so... Yes magblades are underperforming a bit but making one skill op is not the way to change it. Its a good and fair change.

It's weaker than force pulse. Every high end magblade uses force pulse for raids. Strife never needed a fix because even if someone had really low sustain and high damage, strife's low base damage kept it in check. Nobody ever complained about it being op in pvp. There's really no reason for the nerf.

Also the cost increase nerf hurts tanks as they spec into health and block cost reduction while wearing heavy armour, meaning the cost increase will KILL the build.

It also hurts nb healers as it hurts their sustain

Ghost-Shot

jcaceresw wrote: »

Olauron wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

FIXES & IMPROVEMENTS, BASE GAME PATCH

Furnishers

• All furnishings in Cyrodiil are now sold for Alliance Points instead of gold.

[sarcasm]That's just GREAT.[/sarcasm]
So now you are locking a PVE achievement furniture behind a PVP-wall. See attachments.

That is just so bad. Please ZOS, reconsider it. All housing achievements need to be completed doing PVE activities.

So there should be nothing in the system for PvPers? As a PvPer, no thank you.

TheHsN

SORC are really BALANCED???? there isnt any change for them??? adding echo to velicious curse after 8.5 secs not a good change...already good players cast it after 3.5 or 4 seconds again... i dont think it is something about balance or buff

nothing for sustain...
nothing for shield duration
nothing about own spam dps skill

pls dont tell destro stuff cuz it is all for magicka classes not only to sorc...


nothing about light armor how it is weak!!!

and u almost killed DW sorc...

BuddyAces

Gosh I am really starting to think they hate Templars :-(

Belicourt

mdk may not be fotm yet, but i can't wait to see all the new ones riding the struggle bus in pvp. YOU WILL BURN.

Akrasjel

Any changes to the Imperial furniture ?

Sugaroverdose

Yay, nerfed in 1.7 desert rose nerfed second time, was so much broken requiring you to get constant damage from 3+ persons to have reliable magicka return, thank you ZoS, one more set going to trash.

@ZOS_RichLambert could your dev team add in comments sets which mDK should run?

maboleth

@ZOS_GinaBruno

- Is it possible for you guys to review the changes to Trainee armour and nerf it for 20-30%, not 50%?
- Also review the proc sets and Viper. Viper is just insane in PVP. Adds non-dodgeable damage without any effort, whatsoever. It's that bad.
- Eye of the flame/etc - needs more nerfing than 10%. It's totally abused in Cyrodiil.

There's still time to at least reconsider these changes! We are still PTS.

Lucky28

mr_wazzabi wrote: »

Mayrael wrote: »

Awesome changes Strife - its more of a fix than nerf, this skill is spamable, barely visible, gives HOT, and it hits stronger than force shock so... Yes magblades are underperforming a bit but making one skill op is not the way to change it. Its a good and fair change.

It's weaker than force pulse. Every high end magblade uses force pulse for raids. Strife never needed a fix because even if someone had really low sustain and high damage, strife's low base damage kept it in check. Nobody ever complained about it being op in pvp. There's really no reason for the nerf.

Also the cost increase nerf hurts tanks as they spec into health and block cost reduction while wearing heavy armour, meaning the cost increase will KILL the build.

It also hurts nb healers as it hurts their sustain

only reason i can think of to nerf strife is VMA. But this game shouldn't be balanced around VMA as very few people run VMA for fun anymore, should just rename the place "gimme my damn sharpened _____ already!".

Lokov

Lokov wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

FIXES & IMPROVEMENTS, BASE GAME PATCH

Item Sets

• Desert Rose: Increased this item set’s proc chance to 15% from 10%, but also increased its cooldown to 4 seconds from 1 second.

Developer Comments

Due to this item set having a low cooldown, the Magicka restored by its proc was very high in situations where you were taking lots of incoming hits every second. Increasing the cooldown but also increasing the proc chance maintains the current level of Magicka returns when you are taking one hit every second, but keeps it from being extremely overpowered when you were taking multiple hits every second. The Magicka returns of this set will still remain higher than any other item set in heavy combat situations.

You there just destroy the only one item set that was useful for heavy magicka DK =\ DK's skills cost extremly high ((
Proc chance 10% but reduce cooldown to 2 sec will be optimal.

Or make 100% proc chance for desert rose, if cooldown 4sec

OrphanHelgen

NeillMcAttack wrote: »

Any chance the target skeleton could get some kind of leaderboard attached. That would be pretty awesome if it had like a top 20 DPS scores attached.

Love the idea! But keep in mind the double mundus exploit have been in the game longer then it hasn't.

IlCanis_LupuslI

MaxwellC wrote: »

@CubanRay
I feel you mate I mean I can't play stam DK unless I run max health/max stam regen food on and even with that I struggle with sustain issues. People feel that battle roar is all the sustain you need but yeah back then that was the case but now you can't even rely on that as you used to. DK as a whole the passives need to be re-balanced due to changes with the game, we do not have the best sustain anymore nor do we have the best survive-ability, and we can no longer 'stand our ground'. We can only stand on a crumbling ground that always break beneath us.

Wellll,
I Run my stam dk with Max tristat food and with black rose, 7 parts heavy, tri pots, earthen Heart passive whitch gives you 5% stam back on activation, battle roar i usually have enough Sustainability to keep me going. 14k 30k hp 36k stam and no issues at all.

IlCanis_LupuslI

Durham wrote: »

I would like to see the new change before I jump to conclusions... but if it is what I think it is there will be a ton of Magicka DKS... so be prepared for........ TALONS everywhere... under rocks ...on your computer desk ....in the bathrooms ...

Forward Momentum 4tw