Trainee Gear - non-training traits

Stamden

Any word on changing this set to drop in traits other than training? I think this would be a good time to change that.

IxSTALKERxI

Neighbor wrote: »

Any word on changing this set to drop in traits other than training? I think this would be a good time to change that.

Some pieces can come in traits other than training from quests and you can use jewlery. It gives over 1.5 times more stats than any other set in the game such as draugr, necropotence, burning spellweave, alchemist etc. There is a reason it drops in training.

Taleof2Cities

IxSTALKERxI wrote: »

There is a reason it drops in training.

^This.^

Stamden

IxSTALKERxI wrote: »

Neighbor wrote: »

Any word on changing this set to drop in traits other than training? I think this would be a good time to change that.

Some pieces can come in traits other than training from quests and you can use jewlery. It gives over 1.5 times more stats than any other set in the game such as draugr, necropotence, burning spellweave, alchemist etc. There is a reason it drops in training.

It's not like it's all being stacked in one stat like draugr. Mixed/hybrid builds are not usually overbearing in general. Plus, it is just stats anyway, it's hard to really claim a set is overpowered when it doesn't bring some new effect/mechanic into the mix.

leepalmer95

Neighbor wrote: »

IxSTALKERxI wrote: »

Neighbor wrote: »

Any word on changing this set to drop in traits other than training? I think this would be a good time to change that.

Some pieces can come in traits other than training from quests and you can use jewlery. It gives over 1.5 times more stats than any other set in the game such as draugr, necropotence, burning spellweave, alchemist etc. There is a reason it drops in training.

It's not like it's all being stacked in one stat like draugr. Mixed/hybrid builds are not usually overbearing in general. Plus, it is just stats anyway, it's hard to really claim a set is overpowered when it doesn't bring some new effect/mechanic into the mix.

10.5k stats in one set is very strong.

10.5 stam/magicka is the same as 1 spell or weapon dmg. So this sets gives 3500~ to your main stat which is roughly 350~ spell or wapon damage.

Then it gives you 3.5k hp which is very useful especially in this burst meta.

Then you get 3.5k of your off stat. For magicka this allows them to use witch food for sustain, for stamina is gives them a bigger utility pool for skills such a fear/ dark deal/ gneous/ purge etc..

It's a very strong set. Even sets like draugr and necro don't give the pure stats this set does.

Stamden

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Neighbor wrote: »

IxSTALKERxI wrote: »

Neighbor wrote: »

Any word on changing this set to drop in traits other than training? I think this would be a good time to change that.

Some pieces can come in traits other than training from quests and you can use jewlery. It gives over 1.5 times more stats than any other set in the game such as draugr, necropotence, burning spellweave, alchemist etc. There is a reason it drops in training.

It's not like it's all being stacked in one stat like draugr. Mixed/hybrid builds are not usually overbearing in general. Plus, it is just stats anyway, it's hard to really claim a set is overpowered when it doesn't bring some new effect/mechanic into the mix.

10.5k stats in one set is very strong.

10.5 stam/magicka is the same as 1 spell or weapon dmg. So this sets gives 3500~ to your main stat which is roughly 350~ spell or wapon damage.

Then it gives you 3.5k hp which is very useful especially in this burst meta.

Then you get 3.5k of your off stat. For magicka this allows them to use witch food for sustain, for stamina is gives them a bigger utility pool for skills such a fear/ dark deal/ gneous/ purge etc..

It's a very strong set. Even sets like draugr and necro don't give the pure stats this set does.

It's certainly strong, but what I am saying is that it doesn't have the compacity to be overpowering because it doesn't add in new mechanics.

An example of sets that can be overpowering are proc sets. Stack a few of them together, and all of a sudden your character has a chance to output gargantuan amounts of burst damage that would otherwise be impossible.

So, even if non-training Trainee was too strong, I highly doubt anyone would be annoyed with it or complain about it.

code65536

The fact that you--and other people--keep asking for this is pretty evident of how strong it is. Of course you're going to downplay its strength, but frankly, it's not very convincing.

If the trainee trait restriction was lifted, it would become a BiS set that everyone will seek and it will spawn dozens of threads asking for it to be nerfed.

NightbladeMechanics

Neighbor wrote: »

IxSTALKERxI wrote: »

Neighbor wrote: »

Any word on changing this set to drop in traits other than training? I think this would be a good time to change that.

Some pieces can come in traits other than training from quests and you can use jewlery. It gives over 1.5 times more stats than any other set in the game such as draugr, necropotence, burning spellweave, alchemist etc. There is a reason it drops in training.

It's not like it's all being stacked in one stat like draugr. Mixed/hybrid builds are not usually overbearing in general. Plus, it is just stats anyway, it's hard to really claim a set is overpowered when it doesn't bring some new effect/mechanic into the mix.

It's overpowered.

Hybrid builds can already make excellent use of it with the reinforced heavy chest, powered resto, jewelry, impen shield, or sharpened sword. Those are all usable or great traits.

It's an extremely powerful set brought into balance by the fact that you have to wear particular pieces to avoid giving up traits. If it came in every trait, EVERYONE would be wearing it. That's how op it is.

DPShiro

You know there is a reason it's called "Trainee" right?
It's aimed for new players to get a boost while learning the game and leveling up.

It's not intended for use at max level.

UppGRAYxDD

I put trainee wheels on every build, keeps me from falling over everytime I get ambush/viper/selene d

Draxys

DPShiro wrote: »

You know there is a reason it's called "Trainee" right?
It's aimed for new players to get a boost while learning the game and leveling up.

It's not intended for use at max level.

It drops in cp160.....

Stamden

code65536 wrote: »

The fact that you--and other people--keep asking for this is pretty evident of how strong it is. Of course you're going to downplay its strength, but frankly, it's not very convincing.

If the trainee trait restriction was lifted, it would become a BiS set that everyone will seek and it will spawn dozens of threads asking for it to be nerfed.

I really highly doubt everyone would start running it if it. But if needed, the devs can nerf it a bit and add traits to it.

DPShiro

Draxys wrote: »

DPShiro wrote: »

You know there is a reason it's called "Trainee" right?
It's aimed for new players to get a boost while learning the game and leveling up.

It's not intended for use at max level.

It drops in cp160.....

Yes everything in the game now does, with the new scaling mechanics implemented in One Tamriel.
That is not the point, do you really think the developers designed this set for fully leveled characters?

code65536

Neighbor wrote: »

code65536 wrote: »

The fact that you--and other people--keep asking for this is pretty evident of how strong it is. Of course you're going to downplay its strength, but frankly, it's not very convincing.

If the trainee trait restriction was lifted, it would become a BiS set that everyone will seek and it will spawn dozens of threads asking for it to be nerfed.

I really highly doubt everyone would start running it if it. But if needed, the devs can nerf it a bit and add traits to it.

So... nerf the set in a way that harms its intended audience (newbies) so that it won't be too unbalanced in the hands of its unintended audience.

Or, you know, we could just keep it the way it is--the set is good for its intended audience, and people who want to use it outside of that intent will have to suffer the penalty of a few bad traits.

Stamden

So... nerf the set in a way that harms its intended audience (newbies) so that it won't be too unbalanced in the hands of its unintended audience.

Or, you know, we could just keep it the way it is--the set is good for its intended audience, and people who want to use it outside of that intent will have to suffer the penalty of a few bad traits.

So let me get this straight, you think this set is overpowered, and you think the set should be kept at it's overpowered state to cater to newbs? Since when does that take priority over the actual consistent state of balance in the game?

And to balance this, it should just not get traits? Yes because instead of balancing things by changing numbers like normal, we should just screw with another variable instead. That makes sense. Guys, I know how to fix proc sets! Just give them all the Prosperous trait. It's genius.

DPShiro

How can people be so dense?!

It's called Trainee, a set made for new players, with the Training trait to help out in the beginning as they level up.
This is the sole purpose of the set, it's not intended for use on a maxed character.
But since everything now scales in OT it also scales up to CP160.

So if you want to use it because of the higher stats then do so with the Training trait and stop whining.

leepalmer95

Neighbor wrote: »

So... nerf the set in a way that harms its intended audience (newbies) so that it won't be too unbalanced in the hands of its unintended audience.

Or, you know, we could just keep it the way it is--the set is good for its intended audience, and people who want to use it outside of that intent will have to suffer the penalty of a few bad traits.

So let me get this straight, you think this set is overpowered, and you think the set should be kept at it's overpowered state to cater to newbs? Since when does that take priority over the actual consistent state of balance in the game?

And to balance this, it should just not get traits? Yes because instead of balancing things by changing numbers like normal, we should just screw with another variable instead. That makes sense. Guys, I know how to fix proc sets! Just give them all the Prosperous trait. It's genius.

The set is very strong but comes with limitations.

It's balanced. The end.

Stamden

DPShiro wrote: »

How can people be so dense?!

It's called Trainee, a set made for new players, with the Training trait to help out in the beginning as they level up.
This is the sole purpose of the set, it's not intended for use on a maxed character.
But since everything now scales in OT it also scales up to CP160.

So if you want to use it because of the higher stats then do so with the Training trait and stop whining.

There is no reason a set needs to be limited to just newbies.

There would be less reason to care, however there is a huge lack of sets that are good for hybrid builds. One of the ones that needs to be added to the viable sets for hybrids is Trainee. It's stupid to waste a good opportunity for an interested set for the sole purpose of helping random newbs level up temporarily.

Taleof2Cities

Neighbor wrote: »

There is no reason a set needs to be limited to just newbies.

The set isn't limited to just newbies.

End game players can use it ... noting the trait limitations that currently exist in the game to keep the set from being OP.

I think ZOS is in favor of seeing more hybrid builds out there. But, this isn't the way to promote that. Adding desirable traits means end game players would be clamoring to get the set ... with the only goal of more resources and power for their 60/0/0 magicka or stam character.

Bottom Line: It is still possible to accept that this isn't going to happen and move on ...

Stamden

Taleof2Cities wrote: »

Neighbor wrote: »

There is no reason a set needs to be limited to just newbies.

The set isn't limited to just newbies.

End game players can use it ... noting the trait limitations that currently exist in the game to keep the set from being OP.

I think ZOS is in favor of seeing more hybrid builds out there. But, this isn't the way to promote that. Adding desirable traits means end game players would be clamoring to get the set ... with the only goal of more resources and power for their 60/0/0 magicka or stam character.

Bottom Line: It is still possible to accept that this isn't going to happen and move on ...

Then, according to what your saying, the most sensible thing to do would be to adjust the numbers so that they are not BiS (it wouldn't be, but for the sake of argument) for 60/0/0, one-type stat characters. This can be achieved pretty easily. Instead of 2.4k in each stat, it can be 2k or even 1.5k.

There is no reason this set has to be balanced differently from every other set in the game. Having this set be the only set in the game with only training traits is simply not a smart, consistent way to balance.

leepalmer95

Neighbor wrote: »

Taleof2Cities wrote: »

Neighbor wrote: »

There is no reason a set needs to be limited to just newbies.

The set isn't limited to just newbies.

End game players can use it ... noting the trait limitations that currently exist in the game to keep the set from being OP.

I think ZOS is in favor of seeing more hybrid builds out there. But, this isn't the way to promote that. Adding desirable traits means end game players would be clamoring to get the set ... with the only goal of more resources and power for their 60/0/0 magicka or stam character.

Bottom Line: It is still possible to accept that this isn't going to happen and move on ...

Then, according to what your saying, the most sensible thing to do would be to adjust the numbers so that they are not BiS (it wouldn't be, but for the sake of argument) for 60/0/0, one-type stat characters. This can be achieved pretty easily. Instead of 2.4k in each stat, it can be 2k or even 1.5k.

There is no reason this set has to be balanced differently from every other set in the game. Having this set be the only set in the game with only training traits is simply not a smart, consistent way to balance.

This set is the only set available on the STARTER islands.

It's a set with high hybrid stats that only comes in training designed to be very good to noobs early on.

Players can use it end game but it has restrictions. They usually give up a few traits to run it.

For noob's its very strong
For end game players its very strong but has it's problems and restrictions.

It's fine as it is.

brandonv516

Some people have said they've had it DROP in desired stats but I'm still waiting for proof.

Stamden

brandonv516 wrote: »

Some people have said they've had it DROP in desired stats but I'm still waiting for proof.

Non-training traits for it exist, but only come from certain quests and only for certain item. This leads to another problem where a full, viable set of non-training trainee gear is only acquirable for certain builds and not others.

driosketch

brandonv516 wrote: »

Some people have said they've had it DROP in desired stats but I'm still waiting for proof.

I've seen it drop in nontraining for someone who saved dozens of treasure maps just before One Tamriel hit. I know it's possible, but even a screen shot isn't necessarily proof. You'd pretty much have to see one in game for yourself.

Regardless, jewelry has no training trait. If you have any non DC characters who never started gold or silver, you can get an easy sharpen sword for the set. There are other pieces in other traits from quest rewards. Realisticly, you could build a setup with using only one or two training pieces. And as shown in another thread, the sharpened trait provides more benefit than 7 pieces of divine.

Biro123

driosketch wrote: »

Regardless, jewelry has no training trait. If you have any non DC characters who never started gold or silver, you can get an easy sharpen sword for the set. There are other pieces in other traits from quest rewards. Realisticly, you could build a setup with using only one or two training pieces. And as shown in another thread, the sharpened trait provides more benefit than 7 pieces of divine.

But then, most of the non-training drops for this set are weapons - but weapons for this set are pretty useless, since every time you swap weapons, you temporarily lose all that extra health/mag/stam that the 5-piece gives you. Yes, it regens pretty quicky when you're just standing there out of combat, switching - but in combat - it kind of means that you lose out on having those stats.. All you do get is a higher max mag or stam to help with your damage.

This really means that its only really useful if you have 3 jewellery pieces and 2 body pieces - as this means the stat bonuses are always there... Now, try to come up with a build that uses this, a monster set and a 2-handed weapon.... Its not easy.. Basically, using trainee gives you VERY limited build choices.

Stamden

Biro123 wrote: »

driosketch wrote: »

Regardless, jewelry has no training trait. If you have any non DC characters who never started gold or silver, you can get an easy sharpen sword for the set. There are other pieces in other traits from quest rewards. Realisticly, you could build a setup with using only one or two training pieces. And as shown in another thread, the sharpened trait provides more benefit than 7 pieces of divine.

Basically, using trainee gives you VERY limited build choices.

Yes, and this is exactly why I think it should just be added to the game as a normal set with normal traits. People already use it, it's just that you have to go through a bunch of hoops to do it and you're limited in how you can build.

Biro123

Neighbor wrote: »

Biro123 wrote: »

driosketch wrote: »

Regardless, jewelry has no training trait. If you have any non DC characters who never started gold or silver, you can get an easy sharpen sword for the set. There are other pieces in other traits from quest rewards. Realisticly, you could build a setup with using only one or two training pieces. And as shown in another thread, the sharpened trait provides more benefit than 7 pieces of divine.

Basically, using trainee gives you VERY limited build choices.

Yes, and this is exactly why I think it should just be added to the game as a normal set with normal traits. People already use it, it's just that you have to go through a bunch of hoops to do it and you're limited in how you can build.

Now I look at it the other way. It IS a strong set, so I think this is probably fair as is. If they did change it to allow it to drop in any trait, I honestly think it would be done hand-in-hand with a nerf to the amount of stats it provides.

leepalmer95

Biro123 wrote: »

Neighbor wrote: »

Biro123 wrote: »

driosketch wrote: »

Regardless, jewelry has no training trait. If you have any non DC characters who never started gold or silver, you can get an easy sharpen sword for the set. There are other pieces in other traits from quest rewards. Realisticly, you could build a setup with using only one or two training pieces. And as shown in another thread, the sharpened trait provides more benefit than 7 pieces of divine.

Basically, using trainee gives you VERY limited build choices.

Yes, and this is exactly why I think it should just be added to the game as a normal set with normal traits. People already use it, it's just that you have to go through a bunch of hoops to do it and you're limited in how you can build.

Now I look at it the other way. It IS a strong set, so I think this is probably fair as is. If they did change it to allow it to drop in any trait, I honestly think it would be done hand-in-hand with a nerf to the amount of stats it provides.

Which would in turn nerf it for it's intended use which is by new players.

So leave it.

Stamden

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Biro123 wrote: »

Neighbor wrote: »

Biro123 wrote: »

driosketch wrote: »

Regardless, jewelry has no training trait. If you have any non DC characters who never started gold or silver, you can get an easy sharpen sword for the set. There are other pieces in other traits from quest rewards. Realisticly, you could build a setup with using only one or two training pieces. And as shown in another thread, the sharpened trait provides more benefit than 7 pieces of divine.

Basically, using trainee gives you VERY limited build choices.

Yes, and this is exactly why I think it should just be added to the game as a normal set with normal traits. People already use it, it's just that you have to go through a bunch of hoops to do it and you're limited in how you can build.

Now I look at it the other way. It IS a strong set, so I think this is probably fair as is. If they did change it to allow it to drop in any trait, I honestly think it would be done hand-in-hand with a nerf to the amount of stats it provides.

Which would in turn nerf it for it's intended use which is by new players.

So leave it.

Yes because a "new player" is going to notice if each stat got decreased by 500. Your concern for newbs, who would not notice or care about a change like this at all, astounds me..

driosketch

Biro123 wrote: »

driosketch wrote: »

Regardless, jewelry has no training trait. If you have any non DC characters who never started gold or silver, you can get an easy sharpen sword for the set. There are other pieces in other traits from quest rewards. Realisticly, you could build a setup with using only one or two training pieces. And as shown in another thread, the sharpened trait provides more benefit than 7 pieces of divine.

But then, most of the non-training drops for this set are weapons - but weapons for this set are pretty useless, since every time you swap weapons, you temporarily lose all that extra health/mag/stam that the 5-piece gives you. Yes, it regens pretty quicky when you're just standing there out of combat, switching - but in combat - it kind of means that you lose out on having those stats.. All you do get is a higher max mag or stam to help with your damage.

This really means that its only really useful if you have 3 jewellery pieces and 2 body pieces - as this means the stat bonuses are always there... Now, try to come up with a build that uses this, a monster set and a 2-handed weapon.... Its not easy.. Basically, using trainee gives you VERY limited build choices.

If you limit yourself to 11 slots and on top of that use two slots for a monster set, you already put a limit on yourself anyways. Still, 3 jewelry plus a couple armor pieces, as I already stated, then you get a 4/5 set with 2 sharpen duel weapons on the dps bar.