Fix Grim Focus! Please don't wait! Update 13 is the obvious time.

Duukar

This patch has been a real kick in the pants to mNBs. Also sNBs are taking their kick at the nerf can and rightly so.

Grim focus is a huge issue for mNbs right now. I do PvP on my mNB and also run VMA.

This skill is a huge thorn in my side. The minor berserk is essential to do decent damage in both pve and pvp. 8% is a lot of damage to give up when one isnt interested in dealing with the annoying mechanics of this ability.

I have to press the ability once to activate. Then I need to LAND 4 light attacks or weaves. Then I need to press the ability again to shoot the bow and then press the ability again to reactivate minor berserk and start the rotation over again. All within 20 seconds.. Wow what a drag...

in PvE this is monotonous at best. Losing the minor berserk hits my dmg hard, but having to deal with 7 button presses to get this ability into the rotation is really painful.

in PvP this ability is a joke.

despite what a few highly skilled mNbs say I'm going to tell you the truth.

20 seconds isnt long enough to LAND 4 light attacks. About 60% of the time in NON DUEL situations the buff expires before I land 4 light attacks. When I do land 4 light attacks a good percentage of the time the ability is dodged(roll or major evasion) or blocked. Then of course when I cast the arrow my dmg is suddenly reduced by 8%...... So I can then start the drama all over again.

For a MAJOR QOL improvement for mNBs - Make the buff(minor berserk) last 30 seconds regardless of an arrow discharge. Allow one chance to proc the arrow, But keep the 30 seconds of minor berserk. If you want another arrow proc cast again.

This isnt an overpowered buff of an ability. This is a simple QOL improvement that will make mNBs a lot more fun to play!

Duuk

Armitas

Full disclosure i'm a casual PvE NB.

I use the grim focus bow for PvE dps because I found the main rotations to be kind of boring and it feels kind of exciting to to count my attacks and pop this bow when I switch to my back bar. My dps isn't the best but I enjoyed it and I'm just playing it casually. One of the main things I disliked about it is that I would have to cast it twice back to back, once to fire the bow, and again to refresh the buff. I really wish it would refresh the buff when you fire the bow. For PvE I felt like the timer was right, just hated the double cast of it. But I'm also a casual in this case.

NightbladeMechanics

Mag NBs are getting massive buffs this patch. The strife cost nerf will not affect performance in the long run.

Grim Focus works fine and contributes strongly to any build.

Its recast is part of the cost for using such a powerful ability. Minor Berserk is an insanely strong buff, and the proc is the highest single target non-ult ability in the game -- and might be stronger than ults too.

The recast is also key to interrupting mNB's tempo in PvP fights, which can be brutally strong if they build it up and maintain control. It's such a tiny motion, and integral to their play pattern... Why is everyone so opposed to recasting Grim Focus?? I genuinely don't understand.

To me, it's like saying "omg, why do I have to proc a frag by casting other abilities" or "why do I have to proc a power lash by ccing my enemy first?"

You cast Grim Focus to get a 20 second long really powerful buff, and at once point during that buff, you get to fire off a huge nuke. Recasting the ability to get another nuke is unique and thematic and it hurts my soul that the community is lashing out against this mechanic.

Akimbro

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

Mag NBs are getting massive buffs this patch. The strife cost nerf will not affect performance in the long run.

By "massive buffs" you mean slightly increasing the damage of path to make it more in line with the ground dot's of other classes?

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

Its recast is part of the cost for using such a powerful ability. Minor Berserk is an insanely strong buff,

I'm sure you're talking from a PVP perspective, but in PVE this is useless as combat prayer provides the same buff.

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

To me, it's like saying "omg, why do I have to proc a frag by casting other abilities"

Ex. of frag - it can proc from doing a regular rotation. Meaning I can proc this "nuke" while already DPSing. It already takes 4 light/heavy attacks to proc the spec arrow. It's lackluster when you have to combine how it procs, with recasting the ability (while stopping dps) just for it to proc again.

Not trying to bash what you're saying. But you have to understand that these things need to work and balance in both PVE and PVP.

pieratsos

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

Mag NBs are getting massive buffs this patch. The strife cost nerf will not affect performance in the long run.

Grim Focus works fine and contributes strongly to any build.

Its recast is part of the cost for using such a powerful ability. Minor Berserk is an insanely strong buff, and the proc is the highest single target non-ult ability in the game -- and might be stronger than ults too.

The recast is also key to interrupting mNB's tempo in PvP fights, which can be brutally strong if they build it up and maintain control. It's such a tiny motion, and integral to their play pattern... Why is everyone so opposed to recasting Grim Focus?? I genuinely don't understand.

To me, it's like saying "omg, why do I have to proc a frag by casting other abilities" or "why do I have to proc a power lash by ccing my enemy first?"

You cast Grim Focus to get a 20 second long really powerful buff, and at once point during that buff, you get to fire off a huge nuke. Recasting the ability to get another nuke is unique and thematic and it hurts my soul that the community is lashing out against this mechanic.

Grim focus doesnt work like frags and power lash at all. You need to cast the ability first to be able to proc it. When u do proc it u have to cast again to shoot it. And then u have to cast it again to be able to proc it again. Frags and power lash will proc when their conditions are met. Then u go back to ur normal rotation untill they proc again. No one is forcing u to make useless casts just to be able to proc them again.

Duukar

The problem is that you NEED that 8% buff to even be competitive. Without minor Berserk up nothing hits hard at all. This is true for stam and Magicka.

So as it is now I need to do 2 button presses with 2 GCDs just to stay short(yes short) of competitive. If i get the proc off thats awesome and lucky and yields some rewards, but honestly most people just heal through the predictable burst and never get into execute range..

Broken ass Impale execute range for the lose.

When Minor berserk is down my swallow hits like a wet noodle. With the new buffs to FIRE DESTRO which gives mNB some benefit it is tooltipping at 10.5k with everything up. not bad.

Ive been dueling on the PTS.. Things are OK, but Mag Sorcs are BLOWING US OUT OF THE WATER... Way higher burst way better defenses, pets..

My tool tip on Grim is 22k. I follow flame reach with it often and get ready to execute. Its doesnt hit close to 22k with 17k penetration...

Kena or who ever the heck you are NighbladeMechanics you need to remember that you have dedicated a ton of time to playing and gearing. Not everyone enjoys this mechanic as much as you do. I think you are trying to maintain the dmg for the burst with your really weird argument and thats fine. I agree. We cannot afford to LOSE any dmg on the bow proc. This ability has been lackluster since day one and youve obviously worked hard to get used to it and enjoy it.

I want the minor berserk to persist through the buff regardless of arrow discharge. I want the buff to last 30 seconds

I want impale execute range to be increased.

i want Siphoning attacks buff duration increased as well.

Im sick of micro management

FYI im using 3 purp will power with gold spell dmg glyphs. 2 grothdars 5 spinners and Mealstrom Fire Destro Sharp/mealstrom resto. Important pieces are gold.

Finally - This ability IS CHANGING.. You need to come up with some suitable change ideas or ST*U..

Zendran

As someone who has played a ton of magblade (let me clarify that I don't PvE):

1. I'm not really opposed to the idea of at least having the minor berserk buff persist following the will cast.

2. The 4 light attack requirement should not be changed. For people who know what they're doing, it is not an issue at all and a timer would reduce amounts of will procs that could be used (for example, I can have someone dead on the ground with a burst rotation that includes a will cast in the first 3 seconds or so of a fight). Plus, I don't think a ridiculously strong nuke (can hit 16k on light armor targets on a LOW spell damage build) should be something that can proc with no player input.

3. I think that having the ability to proc multiple will casts off of one merciless buff would eventually lead to the nerfing of will in some way or another, so it's something I'm not sure I'm a fan of. You have to keep in mind that currently, shooting the bow itself costs no magicka and so if you could shoot multiple bows from one cast of merciless, the nerfhammer would be sure to follow.

4. Similarly, I am also concerned that having an auto-recast on will cast would mean that the shot itself would no longer be a free cast, which could in certain situations be a drawback (when low on magicka).

5. It should not be an auto-cast (of the bow shot) because while that may be good for PvE, it would be a massive (repeat, MASSIVE) nerf to magblades in PvP since burst is made from chaining will casts with other attacks within a split second.

All in all, if we're talking buffs to grim focus/merciless resolve, I'd say that allowing the minor berserk to persist would be the safest bet when keeping both PvE and PvP in mind.

Edit: Also, magblades can beat mag sorcs in duels very consistently. Maybe occasionally they can get a lucky burst in, but from personal experience I'd say that magblade wins that fight 9/10 times. If you play it right, you'll constantly get sorcs telling you you're basically a sorc with better stam sustain, dodge chance, and higher burst.

Izaki

The spectral bow is the reason why i play stamblade in pve.

LiquidPony

NightbladeMechanics wrote:

Mag NBs are getting massive buffs this patch. The strife cost nerf will not affect performance in the long run.

So ... a moderate increase to Path damage and the same buffs that all of the other already OP PvE mag builds are getting counts as "massive buffs?"

Magblades and stamblades are 2 of the 3 worst PvE builds and nothing in this patch changes that. Magblades are just second-class magsorcs and stamblades are not allowed to be buffed at all, ever, because the PvP crowd who think they should be able to 1v10 will QQ over any buffs to the class.

And for PvE, Grim Focus is nothing special. Minor Berserk is mostly redundant due to Combat Prayer and it's tough to find an ideal rhythm for the Spectral Bow in a repeatable rotation.

runagate

I'm surprised the discussion doesn't center around the fact that given the wonkiness of LA mechanics for quite a while now and performance issues that a decent amount of time the skill doesn't proc right.

In fact, a quarter of the time it procs without my having landed 4 light attacks, and about 2/3rd of the time it simply doesn't proc at all. It's bafflingly inconsistent.

Duukar

And dont forget when you proc the bow and go to cast it instead it just refreshes the buff despite the icon being a bow proc on your skill bar. most frustrating thing EVER

Which is why I say increase the duration.

LiquidPony

runagate wrote: »

I'm surprised the discussion doesn't center around the fact that given the wonkiness of LA mechanics for quite a while now and performance issues that a decent amount of time the skill doesn't proc right.

In fact, a quarter of the time it procs without my having landed 4 light attacks, and about 2/3rd of the time it simply doesn't proc at all. It's bafflingly inconsistent.

And on console the action bar icon is totally broken. Mine gets stuck on the Spectral Bow icon constantly, leaving me with no indication as to whether or not I can actually cast the proc.

The lack of buff timers doesn't help, either.

Auricle

While I totally agree, I think we got an answer on this for now, sadly. At least it's on their radar now. Let's keep coming up with ideas for changes and, hopefully, we'll get a decent change for next patch.

ZOS_RichLambert wrote: »

As a note, we definitely hear your feedback on Grim Focus and agree it requires more micromanagement than most other abilities. We are looking into solutions, but we do not expect to get changes in for Update 13.

old_mufasa

Auricle wrote: »

While I totally agree, I think we got an answer on this for now, sadly. At least it's on their radar now. Let's keep coming up with ideas for changes and, hopefully, we'll get a decent change for next patch.

ZOS_RichLambert wrote: »

As a note, we definitely hear your feedback on Grim Focus and agree it requires more micromanagement than most other abilities. We are looking into solutions, but we do not expect to get changes in for Update 13.

ok so they will someday maybe give us a qol change how to the skill works..

But in the meantime they could easily just buff the duration of berserk to 30 sec to give some leeway in the rotation

Mettaricana

Duukar wrote: »

This patch has been a real kick in the pants to mNBs. Also sNBs are taking their kick at the nerf can and rightly so.

Grim focus is a huge issue for mNbs right now. I do PvP on my mNB and also run VMA.

This skill is a huge thorn in my side. The minor berserk is essential to do decent damage in both pve and pvp. 8% is a lot of damage to give up when one isnt interested in dealing with the annoying mechanics of this ability.

I have to press the ability once to activate. Then I need to LAND 4 light attacks or weaves. Then I need to press the ability again to shoot the bow and then press the ability again to reactivate minor berserk and start the rotation over again. All within 20 seconds.. Wow what a drag...

in PvE this is monotonous at best. Losing the minor berserk hits my dmg hard, but having to deal with 7 button presses to get this ability into the rotation is really painful.

in PvP this ability is a joke.

despite what a few highly skilled mNbs say I'm going to tell you the truth.

20 seconds isnt long enough to LAND 4 light attacks. About 60% of the time in NON DUEL situations the buff expires before I land 4 light attacks. When I do land 4 light attacks a good percentage of the time the ability is dodged(roll or major evasion) or blocked. Then of course when I cast the arrow my dmg is suddenly reduced by 8%...... So I can then start the drama all over again.

For a MAJOR QOL improvement for mNBs - Make the buff(minor berserk) last 30 seconds regardless of an arrow discharge. Allow one chance to proc the arrow, But keep the 30 seconds of minor berserk. If you want another arrow proc cast again.

This isnt an overpowered buff of an ability. This is a simple QOL improvement that will make mNBs a lot more fun to play!

Duuk

Sounds like maybe they should crystal frag it

Preyfar

Mettaricana wrote: »

Sounds like maybe they should crystal frag it

I'd be okay with that, actually. I use the skill for the 8% buff and, if I happen to get it in my rotation to fire off an arrow that's all well and good, but firing the arrow and re-applying the buff takes a lot of time and makes a Magblade rotation feel clunky.

JinMori

I do agree that the duration should be increased.

timwilcoxsonub17_ESO

I play stam NB every day pvp focus. Grim focus is just fine the way it is. Honestly I keep it on my back bar and switch over just for the 20 second buff. No other class gets a buff this powerful with an optionally triggered heavy hitting attack. Like I said my main is stamblade, and I think this is a ridiculous complaint. 10 times out of 10 I don't use the bow anyway cause the buff is enough to get the job done. Pressing the button 1 extra time to fire it and then 1 more to reapply.....and your complaining?

willlienellson

LiquidPony wrote: »

the PvP crowd who think they should be able to 1v10 will QQ over any buffs to the class.

Exactly.

pieratsos

timwilcoxsonub17_ESO wrote: »

I play stam NB every day pvp focus. Grim focus is just fine the way it is. Honestly I keep it on my back bar and switch over just for the 20 second buff. No other class gets a buff this powerful with an optionally triggered heavy hitting attack. Like I said my main is stamblade, and I think this is a ridiculous complaint. 10 times out of 10 I don't use the bow anyway cause the buff is enough to get the job done. Pressing the button 1 extra time to fire it and then 1 more to reapply.....and your complaining?

You are playing a stamblade. You do realise that there is also a class called magblade right? In PVP magblades dont kill anything without that bow. Go play a magblade in PVP and then come back to tell us how easy it is to use that skill or how you dont need it to kill people. And that is just for PVP. In PVE both stamblades and magblades are on the bottom.

runagate

LiquidPony wrote: »

runagate wrote: »

I'm surprised the discussion doesn't center around the fact that given the wonkiness of LA mechanics for quite a while now and performance issues that a decent amount of time the skill doesn't proc right.

In fact, a quarter of the time it procs without my having landed 4 light attacks, and about 2/3rd of the time it simply doesn't proc at all. It's bafflingly inconsistent.

And on console the action bar icon is totally broken. Mine gets stuck on the Spectral Bow icon constantly, leaving me with no indication as to whether or not I can actually cast the proc.

The lack of buff timers doesn't help, either.

Oh, man, that sounds horrible. I have an add-on that makes a sound when it procs as I'm far more auditory-oriented than visual and yet oddly assume it's ready as, being a musician, I unconsciously count the light attacks I've performed and it hardly ever correlates that what's expected. Even when not in a real fight, just pew pewing at some harmless mob to test its performance.

@pieratsos excellent point

Dymence

20 Seconds isn't long enough to land 4 light attacks? Wtf are you doing in this game?

EDIT for a bit more constructive commentary...:

The ability is pretty much fine as it is right now. You realize that you had to do even more light attacks previously?

There is only one quality of life change this ability needs, and that is allowing people to keep shooting bows for as long as the ability is running. What I mean by this is that you don't weave 4 light attacks, shoot the bow and then recast the ability, but that you can 'proc' as many bows for the duration of the ability each 4 light attacks.

Another option would be to have the bow automatically fire at the 4th light attack.

NightbladeMechanics

Akimbro wrote: »

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

Mag NBs are getting massive buffs this patch. The strife cost nerf will not affect performance in the long run.

By "massive buffs" you mean slightly increasing the damage of path to make it more in line with the ground dot's of other classes?

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

Its recast is part of the cost for using such a powerful ability. Minor Berserk is an insanely strong buff,

I'm sure you're talking from a PVP perspective, but in PVE this is useless as combat prayer provides the same buff.

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

To me, it's like saying "omg, why do I have to proc a frag by casting other abilities"

Ex. of frag - it can proc from doing a regular rotation. Meaning I can proc this "nuke" while already DPSing. It already takes 4 light/heavy attacks to proc the spec arrow. It's lackluster when you have to combine how it procs, with recasting the ability (while stopping dps) just for it to proc again.

Not trying to bash what you're saying. But you have to understand that these things need to work and balance in both PVE and PVP.

The buffs come from +8% single target or aoe damage from destro staff passives. HUGE buffs to mageblades of all sorts of builds. Mageblades don't need buffs to begin with, but we're getting massive damage increases across the board.

Of course I'm talking from a PvP perspective. Everyone gets Minor Berserk in PvE. Doesn't change the fact that it's a hugely influential buff.

And if you're not weaving light or medium attacks in your PvE dps rotations, you're doing it wrong. Light attacking IS "already dpsing." And the arrow hits harder than a frag, making the recast worth it in most cases. If you want higher general dps parses for mageblade (which they need), then ask for buffs to numbers, not fundamental reworks of unique class mechanics.

You are clearly uninformed about mageblade and honestly shouldn't be commenting in feedback forums with nonsense like this.

arkansas_ESO

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

Mag NBs are getting massive buffs this patch. The strife cost nerf will not affect performance in the long run.

Grim Focus works fine and contributes strongly to any build.

Its recast is part of the cost for using such a powerful ability. Minor Berserk is an insanely strong buff, and the proc is the highest single target non-ult ability in the game -- and might be stronger than ults too.

The recast is also key to interrupting mNB's tempo in PvP fights, which can be brutally strong if they build it up and maintain control. It's such a tiny motion, and integral to their play pattern... Why is everyone so opposed to recasting Grim Focus?? I genuinely don't understand.

To me, it's like saying "omg, why do I have to proc a frag by casting other abilities" or "why do I have to proc a power lash by ccing my enemy first?"

You cast Grim Focus to get a 20 second long really powerful buff, and at once point during that buff, you get to fire off a huge nuke. Recasting the ability to get another nuke is unique and thematic and it hurts my soul that the community is lashing out against this mechanic.

What buffs are mNB getting, besides a buff to an AOE that most mNBs only use to proc Major Resolve/Major Ward from the Shadow Barrier passive?

NightbladeMechanics

Wait, do you people really think mNB is getting NERFED next patch?

LOL

Does 8% bonus single target or aoe damage from the new destro staff passives mean nothing to you? EVERYTHING that's happened has been a buff except for the Strife cost increase, which will be inconsequential long term.

I can get behind increasing the duration of Grim Focus' base buff, but NOT multiple procs per buff OR removing the recast. It absolutely baffles me that people consider that being a good idea.

Making dpsing on mageblade EASIER should not be the goal. Ask for numbers to be tuned up elsewhere in the kit, and then l2p.

The Path buffs should be celebrated for PvE. Every mageblade should be using that ability already -- I pulled 45k dps in vMoL last patch with purple gear and Refreshing Path -- so embrace those and ask for similar tuneups. Do NOT advocate fundamentally changing the class's play patterns because you don't like managing buffs!

Brrrofski

I actually think merciless as mechanic is absolutely fine. It's insanely powerful so should require work. In PvP that is. Only PvE I've done on my magica NB is dungeons and VMA. So maybe it is lacking for trials, i'm purely on about PvP.

Yes, it's annoying when a light attack is dodged. It's super annoying when the bow gets dodged. But it's the same with any skill in that respect. I usually use it after a fear so only shuffle can dodge it, which is getting a nerf.

My beef with it... IT DOESN'T WORK. The amount of times you hear it proc (well within the timeframe and you go to fire it only to recast is. It's infuriating. In PvP this happens every third of foirgt time. Proc just vanished. Seriously, just fix it. That's be fine for me.

Would love to know what massive buffs magica nbs are getting next patch... Path buff is nice for PvE, sure. For PvP? Useless. I use it for the speed boost and a bit of healing. It's not there for damage. If they buffed liquid lightning by 25%, I wouldn't call it a PvP for magica sorcs and I definitely still wouldn't be slotting it. My build now doesn't run path. Still won't next patch just because of 25% more damage.

Destro staff buff isn't a mageblade buff. It's also a sorc buff. Dks too if they want to run a destro (but maybe not so much on a templar). It's hardly a NB buff. It's a magica buff.

arkansas_ESO

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

Wait, do you people really think mNB is getting NERFED next patch?

LOL

Does 8% bonus single target or aoe damage from the new destro staff passives mean nothing to you? EVERYTHING that's happened has been a buff except for the Strife cost increase, which will be inconsequential long term.

I can get behind increasing the duration of Grim Focus' base buff, but NOT multiple procs per buff OR removing the recast. It absolutely baffles me that people consider that being a good idea.

Making dpsing on mageblade EASIER should not be the goal. Ask for numbers to be tuned up elsewhere in the kit, and then l2p.

The Path buffs should be celebrated for PvE. Every mageblade should be using that ability already -- I pulled 45k dps in vMoL last patch with purple gear and Refreshing Path -- so embrace those and ask for similar tuneups. Do NOT advocate fundamentally changing the class's play patterns because you don't like managing buffs!

The new destro passives aren't exclusive to mNB, though, every class will have access to those. mNB will still be behind relative to other classes.

IwakuraLain42

As has been said by others before modifying Grim Focus they really should fix the bug with Strife and its morphs so that the weaving 4 light attacks works reliable. The only way I can get the proc to really work (on a console using the controller) is cancelling medium attacks with Strife. This feels extremely clunky and is also error prone as well.

old_mufasa

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

Wait, do you people really think mNB is getting NERFED next patch?

LOL

Does 8% bonus single target or aoe damage from the new destro staff passives mean nothing to you? EVERYTHING that's happened has been a buff except for the Strife cost increase, which will be inconsequential long term.

I can get behind increasing the duration of Grim Focus' base buff, but NOT multiple procs per buff OR removing the recast. It absolutely baffles me that people consider that being a good idea.

Making dpsing on mageblade EASIER should not be the goal. Ask for numbers to be tuned up elsewhere in the kit, and then l2p.

The Path buffs should be celebrated for PvE. Every mageblade should be using that ability already -- I pulled 45k dps in vMoL last patch with purple gear and Refreshing Path -- so embrace those and ask for similar tuneups. Do NOT advocate fundamentally changing the class's play patterns because you don't like managing buffs!

/facepalm...

Destro staff changes.. IS NOT A CLASS BUFF!!! it buffed all magic users..

ok now that's out of the way...

even with the change to path... magblades are still behind other magic class builds..

increasing strife's costs with no compensation in damage is an out right nerf and has more an effect on our dps then the path buffs

Now if they increased strife's costs and damage while lowering healing done to stay with in current levels that would be understandable.. but just arbitrary increasing the cost for no apparent reason to the already lowest of the magic dps class's is a nerf...

Not to mention the crit changes will effect us more then other mage builds as well.

Grim focus is clunky.. its that simple.. its not about managing buffs its about flow of gameplay and the way grim focus currently works is very clunky. Its a bad system and just because that's how its been does not mean its how it should remain...

NightbladeMechanics

Notice that I never said the destro passives are buffing mageblade relative to other classes' dps. This is an overall PvP damage buff and a universal magicka PvE dps buff. We're receiving other direct buffs.

Also I have never noticed Grim Focus being "clunky" or buggy. As long as you don't try to animation cancel the arrow (it has a .1s channel time, read the tooltip), it works fine. I'm so confused at how this ability is suddenly enraging the entire PvE community...

exeeter702

Honestly, ive lost track of how many times i get my bow loaded and bar swap only to see it expire right as i am getting ready to fire it.

A longer duration for the buff is needed it.