Balance direction in Update 13

Betheny

It's actually quite offensive come to think of it that @ZOS_RichLambert seems to think "older gamers" need things simplified...maybe their fingers don't mash buttons *quite* as fast, but their minds definitely can work out a build and rotation to play with just the same.

Simplifying things simply removes choice and build diversity.

K4RMA

Lowering the skill cap, or "simplifying" certain aspects of the game, alienates your more skilled players. Players that have put 100s of hours into learning game mechanics in PVP and PVE now feel it's been a waste of there time since all you're doing now is taking that high skill cap and lowering it, which means no matter how many hours they put in to learning the complex mechanics/class strengths and weaknesses, it all really doesn't matter since it's now so much easier to play a "simplified" build and just mash "1" and "2" buttons to kill your opponents instead of trying to juggle mechanics such as timing, burst damage, sustained damage and execute to skilfully down your opponent/opponents.

Please reconsider these changes. Make it so that players that really want to do well in the game have to put in the time and the effort into learning game mechanics/class strengths and weaknesses. It creates a much more skill oriented game instead of a "Anyone can play this easy game with no effort" kind of game.

Rohamad_Ali

Despite not agreeing on some of the direction , thank you @ZOS_RichLambert for explaining it . That is very appreciated .

jarydf

Did you see that fellas? Rich came to me and said "dude, you and your overloads, they are OVER 9000!!! and too damn strong. The mobs they can't handle your POWER. Think of the baby mobs. We needs to tone you down. Lower the ceiling and all that you have going on there. You and puppy needs to chill.

Paraflex

I like hearing you guys are not done and and taking small steps to not create chaos in another department. Just wish it could happen sooner with the baby steps...tone down Heavy Armor Constitution passive that will lower the ceiling and up the floor for all players...we don't need Mag recovery in this passive

FriedEggSandwich

ZOS_RichLambert wrote: »

Betheny wrote: »

Gamers who need things "simplified" shouldn't be playing games!

So because i'm an older gamer and slower... I shouldn't be playing games? That's a pretty narrow view don't you think?

You can't be much older than 40. I'm 36 and only fractionally slower than I was at 21. Sports men and women retire. Paralympians get their own event, they don't get squeezed in to the main event.

I don't want my pvp rotation simplified, I want my curse back please. The fact you said you might reconsider has given me hope. Please reconsider, 6 seconds is such a long time in pvp. Surely if you just wanted to simplify curse you could have had it pop after 3.5s and then the haunting echo pop after another 3.5s, so you only needed to cast it every 7s? I would rather have velocious curse back if I'm honest but this suggestion is better that what you implemented imo.

Anyway thanks for the feedback and interaction, I imagine it's calmed some nerves.

KisoValley

ZOS_RichLambert wrote: »

Grunim wrote: »

And from Rich's wording I wonder if additional balance changes will bypass PTS altogether and be part of Update 13 when it goes live.

Ideally we always want changes to get some kind of testing on PTS before they get to Live. Things don't always work out that way unfortunately. (it bugs us just as much as you all)

smacx250 wrote: »

Drop a bomb and split for the weekend - I know that move well!

Who says I left for the weekend? I'm still here... there's lots to do still!

Liam12548 wrote: »

All the balance updates and stamplar still can't compete/ is the lowest part of the lowest part of the floor.

I did say there's more changes planned (across all classes btw). I just won't comment on them until I know for sure they will make it.

Minalan wrote: »

PVP players REALLY need to be able to land 3 unblockable curses in 12 seconds this patch, especially with the ice staff changes and incoming Magicka Templar ice staff block/purge/heal tanks.

We know that burst is really important in PVP - having the 3 extra globals helps with that, but we'll re-evaluate the change.

Wollust wrote: »

But the whole situation right now just downright sucks. And it doesn't make it better with you trying to hype us up into the third PTS.

We're not trying to hype things up. It sucks for us too that we can't do everything all at once.

Right because 3 extra force pulse/weaves that will be blocked by a ice staff will really help with our damage in the incoming Magplar ice staff meta.

Doctordarkspawn

ZOS_RichLambert wrote: »

Update 13 has been out on the PTS for almost a week now and there’s been a lot of good feedback and questions posted with regards to the balance changes. I wanted to take a few moments to briefly discuss the overall direction for these changes so you can hopefully start to see why these changes are occurring.

For Update 13, our overall goal was to lessen the gap between the top and bottom. (in terms of overall damage output, coordinated vs. uncoordinated, small and large scale PVE & PVP) This doesn’t mean all classes are perfectly equal in all ways or that we want to remove skill from the game. We want to establish a solid baseline so that we can better tune and tweak balance. For this update we attacked this problem from multiple angles by doing the following:

1. Lowering the ceiling on the top damage
2. Raising the floor on the bottom damage
3. Simplifying some of the more intense rotations to make them a bit easier for players of all skill levels

Some of you will probably ask how the above goals translate into the changes we made. Here are some notes on a couple of the more hotly debated ones so you can see how they fit into the bigger picture:

• Proc Sets – This change falls directly into the “lower the ceiling” category for both PVP and PVE. We wanted to reduce the overall burst potential without dramatically lowering sustain. There have been a lot of comments on this change, specifically from the PVP side where sets not critting will not help because of the Impenetrable trait - Impen does not reduce the chance of being crit - it reduces the damage of the crit that hits you.
• Stun Removal on Blazing Spear – This change falls into the “simplify” category. We increased the duration of the damage on this ability to simplify the rotation. In addition we removed the stun component. Now the morph choices are more damage or more resources and disorient. (CC)
• Radiant Destruction – This one is definitely in the “lower the ceiling” category. It was strong in both PVE and PVP and needed adjustment.
• Haunting Curse – This one falls into the “simplify” category. The goal was to free up globals for more abilities to be cast with this change. (i.e. – every 10.5 seconds you get to use 3 more abilities) @Alpheu5 has a pretty great image that illustrates this change in this thread.

I didn't touch on every change or class, but I hope that sheds some light into how and why we've made some of the changes we've made. We have a lot more balance changes planned, but due to how our build cycle works, most of them won't make the next PTS build - they should hopefully make PTS3 though.

It should also be noted that what is on PTS now is our first pass at these changes. We’re evaluating all of them and will make adjustments based on both feedback and data collected, so please continue to test them on PTS and give feedback.

-rich

Well thanks for that clarification there. I'm in favor of most of these on a concept level. A personal complaint, and one I share, was the complications of rotations and just how friggin hard it is to find something that works. So I'm fully on board with lowering that gap between ceiling and floor and making things alot simpler and streamlined.


I'd also ask for some details on what the general aim is on Frost Staff Tanking. @ZOS_RichLambert Mind giving us some idea of what to expect from that, general thought process, that sort of thing?

Minalan

I hate to say this, because I'm on the magicka side of the aisle so to speak...

But the 2H ultimate needs a slight buff. Nobody uses it. I've had it on maybe one death recap. As happy as that makes many of us, it's not fair to stamina players who want to use it..

Please consider buffing the 2H ultimate when the adjustments are made for PTS-3.

lucky_Sage

@ZOS_RichLambert

PROC SETS
if I'm running a group with a Templar healer in pvp they are using transmutation which on my guy I have 3400 inpen which basically makes crit deal no extra dmg so the change barely affects pvp.

DRAGON KNIGHT
why do yall go in this direction with CDB if I get ganked I will have full mana and get a 2k heal it is nerfed when I need it more when I'm standing my ground I rely on burning embers to heal me in a fight not CDB that just for buff and if I'm playing right I don't hit less than 30% max magicka.

what made yall want to buff whip instead dots more reliable in pvp that's what the class needs a cloak to pressure.

magdk need better sustain not dmg heals and resource management.

chain can still be dodged or blocked still worst gap closer wont be worth sloting intel it is fix but speed buff is nice.

SORC
VC I can see its a buff to pve but its not to PvP is more of a nerf makes it easy to be countered by Templars and nightblades and with frag proc the 3.5 sec Dot is better for setting up sorcs burst for how small the proc is up unless yall make it a the frag proc last 6 secs the burst is even more left to RnG.

the pet change is nice but still not worth because it takes 4 or 6 slots away from you why not make them stay up no matter what bar they are on unless they are on overload bar only and lower the cast time.

NIGHTBLADE
why wasn't there a buff to the magblade Dmg is worst in game?

no nerf on incap the stun should be removed and cost should be 75 on unmorphed ult

TEMPLAR
nice change to eclipse.

why didn't yall help stamplars stam management.

DESTRO STAFF
I do not unsterstand the destroy changes could you explain more about why especially frost is it prepping for the warden class or range frost mage skill line please say yes and coming next update that my favorite play style is frost mage??????

the nerf on destroy ult should be more it is way to big range for the amount of dmg and should be blockable.

edited forgot something

why was heavy armor not nerfed I think it would be much better balanced if wrath was reworked it don't think its for heavy armor and it over preforms in pvp by a lot. heavy armor should have sustain not dmg .

I am trying to be constructive but I feel for how long we waited for balance changes its very under whelming I was hoping for big major changes but it was very litte

olsborg

Dear rich.

1. Please revert the curse change, velocious curse is much needed for sorcs to set up burst without having to wait a god awful long time.
2. Heavy armor is overperforming compared to medium and light armor, most ppl can agree on this fact, why cant you see it?
3. Proccsets needs to be toned down, not just be unable to crit, Selene hits for 8k uncrit, this is not good. Not to mention viper and velidreth and skoria.
4. Destruction ultimate is way too strong, it deals insane amount of dmg (and will deal more shock dmg on pts) and there is no good counters.
5. Have a nice weekend man.

Auricle

Wow, honestly I expected this thread to be full of salt, but people are having some pretty legitimate constructive thought. How refreshing!

Thank you so much, Rich for taking the time to explain your thought process and engage with the community. We're not always the nicest or most patient people, but we love this game. Communication is so key when making big changes to the world. Don't you know, we're gamers and we have feeeelings.

Along with others, I would really like to understand why you upped the cost of Strife. I thought it was a really well balanced skill-- not very strong, but the cost was the selling point, and it made playing a NB feel very distinctive. If it stays at this cost, most magblades are probably going to switch over to using Force Pulse (those that haven't already), and I really don't want to have to do that. I would love some of that sweet, sweet communication in regards to this change, if you have the time.

Again, thank you for talking with us. We may not always agree, but I respect that you're trying to let us in on your 'Master Plan'TM.

skwherl

ZOS_RichLambert wrote: »

[*] Stun Removal on Blazing Spear – This change falls into the “simplify” category. We increased the duration of the damage on this ability to simplify the rotation. In addition we removed the stun component. Now the morph choices are more damage or more resources and disorient. (CC)

Please do not take this away from templars, it's the only good cc they have currently. If im getting spambushed by a nb in pvp am i cannot toppling charge them cos they will always be too close and cannot javelin them cos they can easily dodge it. Shard cc helps so much and this is a pointless nerf.

Alaztor91

If you want to simplify intense rotations or make them easier to players of all skill levels, wouldn't it be better to add a buff/debuff tracker to the base game,or fixing animation cancel?

Rohamad_Ali

Alaztor91 wrote: »

If you want to simplify intense rotations or make them easier to players of all skill levels, wouldn't it be better to add a buff/debuff tracker to the base game,or fixing animation cancel?

That's just crazy talk . Old people have trouble seeing too .

Rohamad_Ali

Mr Lambert want to put the Elder back in Elder scrolls .




Think of the elderly before posting .

SwaminoNowlino

@ZOS_RichLambert
Thanks for the post!

My buddies and I have had this and similar conversations quite often, especially in terms of where we are now as players compared to when we started. And so much of it is the lack of clear explanations in game, and just so much hidden information that we have to rely on guys like Nifty and Alcast for.

Dragonblood on PTS appears to have a base value, even at full magicka. Nowhere in the tooltip is that explained. The base crit hit damage isn't explained anywhere in the game. The fact that pets aren't impacted by CP isn't explained anywhere. Nowhere is the relationship between max magicka and shield strength on a sorc explained. I'm not even sure "empowered" is explained. It's kind of really hard to tell when you're just starting out what stuff actually does, and how things interact. I think you all could get stunningly far in reducing the gaps between players by trying to reduce the information gap between players. It's an immensely complex game, and it would be really hard to naturally explain all of that stuff, but I've had many a friend give up because they simply didn't understand what was going on and watching hours of @Alcast videos to be taught mechanics kind of rubbed them the wrong way (props to Alcast though haha).

Additionally, we know the game is incredibly hard to balance in regards to PvE vs PvP. Balancing one can generally screw the other. You could get pretty far though in terms of classes and skills by looking at some of the morphs and skills that just aren't used and tweaking those. No one uses daedric prey, so why not make that the PvE morph. No one uses crystal blast, make that a more PvE oriented morph. Luminous shard is seldom used, so why not adjust it upwards. Things like that. You can make everyone happy that way. would be a lot easier to balance on your end too if you knew what folks were going to use in specific circumstances. And finally, let us spend gold to remorph skills on an individual, as needed basis. If I want to take my PVP magicka sorc into PvE, I could go remorph my crushing shock and curse to fit PvE. Stuff like that.

Thanks again sir.

kyle.wilson

ZOS_RichLambert wrote: »

[*] Haunting Curse – This one falls into the “simplify” category. The goal was to free up globals for more abilities to be cast with this change. (i.e. – every 10.5 seconds you get to use 3 more abilities) @Alpheu5 has a pretty great image that illustrates this change in this thread.

Why not have made this skill replace the morph daedric prey. I don't know anyone that has ever taken that morph.
Because it really sounds like a change for pve. VC is what made mag sorcs able to burst down enemies in pvp.

@ZOS_RichLambert

boundsy88

Curse change might go down in history as the worst and most unnecessary change ZOS has ever made. blocking with frost staffs might be a tiny bit behind that. "simplify" a skill that is already simple. throw it on someone and it blows up in 3.5 seconds.... what isnt simple about that?

I barely even play sorc in pvp and am considering deleting mine if these changes make it to live. theres no point using mag sorc in VMA anymore with the max ult nerf so i literally have no use of the character anymore.

This change MUST be reverted. Also make dragon blood usable. The max magicka scaling is the most ridiculous thing ive ever heard.

kyle.wilson

ZOS_RichLambert wrote: »

[*] Proc Sets – This change falls directly into the “lower the ceiling” category for both PVP and PVE. We wanted to reduce the overall burst potential without dramatically lowering sustain. There have been a lot of comments on this change, specifically from the PVP side where sets not critting will not help because of the Impenetrable trait - Impen does not reduce the chance of being crit - it reduces the damage of the crit that hits you.

Wish I'd known that before I changed my khajiit stam sorc to redguard. That is different from what I had always heard about impen.

riVALry9

SwaminoNowlino wrote: »

@ZOS_RichLambert
Thanks for the post!

My buddies and I have had this and similar conversations quite often, especially in terms of where we are now as players compared to when we started. And so much of it is the lack of clear explanations in game, and just so much hidden information that we have to rely on guys like Nifty and Alcast for.

Dragonblood on PTS appears to have a base value, even at full magicka. Nowhere in the tooltip is that explained. The base crit hit damage isn't explained anywhere in the game. The fact that pets aren't impacted by CP isn't explained anywhere. Nowhere is the relationship between max magicka and shield strength on a sorc explained. I'm not even sure "empowered" is explained. It's kind of really hard to tell when you're just starting out what stuff actually does, and how things interact. I think you all could get stunningly far in reducing the gaps between players by trying to reduce the information gap between players. It's an immensely complex game, and it would be really hard to naturally explain all of that stuff, but I've had many a friend give up because they simply didn't understand what was going on and watching hours of @Alcast videos to be taught mechanics kind of rubbed them the wrong way (props to Alcast though haha).

Additionally, we know the game is incredibly hard to balance in regards to PvE vs PvP. Balancing one can generally screw the other. You could get pretty far though in terms of classes and skills by looking at some of the morphs and skills that just aren't used and tweaking those. No one uses daedric prey, so why not make that the PvE morph. No one uses crystal blast, make that a more PvE oriented morph. Luminous shard is seldom used, so why not adjust it upwards. Things like that. You can make everyone happy that way. would be a lot easier to balance on your end too if you knew what folks were going to use in specific circumstances. And finally, let us spend gold to remorph skills on an individual, as needed basis. If I want to take my PVP magicka sorc into PvE, I could go remorph my crushing shock and curse to fit PvE. Stuff like that.

Thanks again sir.

This is actually a very good point that I have been trying to articulate for some time now, but just didn't know how. ESO is one of the most complex MMOs in terms of base game mechanics that I have ever played. I like that about it! However, it took me a very long time to get to the point where I understood even some of the "basic" mechanics like what influences shield strength, what factors influence your actual damage output (max magicka vs spell damage vs spell penetration, etc.) there are so many little "cause and effect" type factors that are never outlined in the game, and although it all makes sense to me NOW I remember what it was like trying to figure it all out as a newer player.

I cannot tell you how many people I have spoken to who gave up on the game for this very reason. They see that they are underperforming, but they do not understand why or how to fix it because at no point are these mechanics explained. Unfortunately, not everyone is lucky enough to find people who are willing to teach them. I was fortunate, and now being on the opposite end of the spectrum I can tell you that it is not easy to try and explain these very complex mechanics to someone who is already frustrated and confused.

I want this to remain a high skill game, but I also agree that the massive information gap between players needs to be addressed and is the culprit behind many of the issues that you devs see within the casual player community.

Caff32

Betheny wrote: »

It's actually quite offensive come to think of it that @ZOS_RichLambert seems to think "older gamers" need things simplified...maybe their fingers don't mash buttons *quite* as fast, but their minds definitely can work out a build and rotation to play with just the same.

Simplifying things simply removes choice and build diversity.

I'm almost 40 and I'll put my DPS up against anybody. My reflexes are as sharp as ever, thank you very much. Age has nothing to do with it.

Now get off my **** lawn!

The_Undefined

ZOS_RichLambert wrote: »

1. Lowering the ceiling on the top damage
2. Raising the floor on the bottom damage
3. Simplifying some of the more intense rotations to make them a bit easier for players of all skill levels

This is lowering the bar of skilled players to the lower skilled base of players... that is punishing players who have spent time to discover these complicated builds and master them just to hand them out to lower skilled players?

That's.. the complete antitheses of progressing in a video game... let alone a MMO. I understand the idea behind this, you all are getting TONS of newer players into the game and need to try to cater to the newbies in order for them to get into difficult content, but you're burning the players that have been with you in the process.

Also, you killing other skills, such as "lowering the ceiling" with the trap ability, undermines this philosophy . If you don't want that trap used then spread out its effect to other skills (minor force) and don't make sweeping blanket damage nerfs that make this content harder.

This overall patch and this comment are contradictory. Yes, overpowered skills should be nerfed, but there's content in the game with those overpowered skills that can't be completed. So, you're punishing skilled players for non-skilled players, but still gating nearly impossible content for everyone.

That's what I get out of this comment. Please correct me if I'm wrong, because I'm pretty confused.

[Edit] One last point, I would consider myself one of those lower skilled players that you're making these changes for. I've been playing the game pretty consistently for about 6 months now. I haven't done any vet content b/c I'm genuinely afraid I'm just not good enough DPS for it. That has invigorated me more to learn about the game and discover / practice builds than it has deterred me. Heck, I've brought in 3 more people to play this game with. However, these changes do not encourage me or anyone I've brought in so far (except the ice tank, b/c he's stoked about a mage ice tank) to play the game. We read the patch notes and one person said "so leveling that templar was a huge waste of time, huh?" and the other couldn't get his head around why his templar skills were being nerfed. This is the reason why I quit your game in the first place at launch. This is the reason why I quit GW2 and haven't gone back other than to look at a few changes in the game in over 3 years. Stability. I love how I can still log onto GW1 (which has FAR more skills to deal with than this game) and I can still play my spirit spammer. I literally log into that game sometimes just to play that for an hour or two. I detested logging into GW2 after a series of patches to find my established characters completely broken due to PVP / PVE balance fixes / nerfs. I understand balances and tweaks need to be made, but when they can completely change the effectiveness of a class, that's way too far. Now I'm not saying this is the case with this patch, but they're huge redflags imo.

Jsmalls

I think it's more than obvious to everyone that haunting is Superior in PvE... (Really boring though...)

But for PvP... it's an absolute nightmare... The timing involved to correctly anticipate said burst and the following burst 12 seconds later would be awful. God forbid you have more than one target on you as well... That would be borderline impossible to take advantage of.

Zos has stated this change goes into the simplify category. Well in my opinion it becomes much more difficult of a skill to use correctly, and much more easily counterable.

The idea is to make it "easier" for players of all skill levels to use... Well being one of those higher skilled players I can tell you I'll have that other player dead before his curse even goes off, so you're not helping them with this change. And this players can barely keep track of their six second shield, you really don't need to be adding another skill that they'll have to time out 6 seconds after they cast it. Hell even I would have a hard time keeping track of that through CCs, heals, and purges.

As @Minalan has stated there are various reasons why it's an obvious nerf FOR PVP. It crushes build diversities, it lessens burst opportunity, lessens pressure which increases pressure on us, and we don't really have other "viable" skills to replace its reliability.

The OBVIOUS compromise would be to change daedric prey to haunting and keeping velicious. That way you give PvE'ers their superior and easier rotation. And you also give PvP'ers their simpler burst combination. Which is what Zos claims to set out to do.

Otherwise you're making it harder for one side and easier for the other.

sirtadzio

@ZOS_RichLambert ,
Thank you for this opportunity for dialogue with the community. I am happy and excited to see your upcoming plans for classes as the PTS progresses and when you are able to share more.
What I would be interested in learning now is, from a development team standpoint, how does your team view each class right now (performance wise), and generally speaking, where do you see them going in the future?
For example, do you agree with the community that magBlades have poor performance in PvE and need some sort of attention? I'm just curious to learn your point of view and perspective on the classes.
Thank you for your time and have a great weekend!

Blackfyre20

ZOS_RichLambert wrote: »

There have been a lot of comments on this change, specifically from the PVP side where sets not critting will not help because of the Impenetrable trait - Impen does not reduce the chance of being crit - it reduces the damage of the crit that hits you.
[*] Stun Removal on Blazing Spear – This change falls into the “simplify” category. We increased the duration of the damage on this ability to simplify the rotation. In addition we removed the stun component. Now the morph choices are more damage or more resources and disorient. (CC)

These are two of the most nonsensical explanations I have every heard for anything really.

"Impen does not reduce the chance of being crit - it reduces the damage of the crit that hits you"... Yea, umm, exactly? How is this an explanation of why it will have a big impact on PVP? You stated your change, said it will impact PVP, and then listed a reason why it is indeed just a small change for PVP.

"This change falls into the 'simplify' category [goes on to state the changes to the skill, including stun removal, but says nothing about how the stun removal simplifies anything]"... What does removing the stun from blazing spear simplify? If you're really trying to make this game dps for dummies then wouldn't a stun help new players? It's like you state a random reason for making these changes and then go on to just say unrelated nonsense.

Also I REALLY hope that you did not have closing the experience gap in mind when you made the coagulating blood change, but now that you mention it, it all makes sense. New, bad players are always going to be low on magicka because they have no idea what managing resources means. That is so beyond f***ed up if that is the motive behind this change. You're not helping new players out, but rather teaching them to continue to be bad by rewarding them for not managing their resources. Making this change to "close the gap" would be maybe the stupidest thing I have ever heard but it sure doesn't fall under the "simplify" category since needing to be low on both health and magicka for a heal is a lot more complicated than just being low on health. I perked up when I saw this post because I have been one of those calling for an explanation but as many warned, I was better off not knowing.

praxis

I love ESO but right now I'm looking at basically a year and a half of my time and 12 max-level characters that just got weaker and not stronger, while housing depletes my gold and stored mats and tempers so I can't even really redo them all to fix the issues with changes in the gear sets and abilities. And now it's going to be harder to farm the gear I need because while "oh see, look, it's only a 4K dps drop" is one thing but multiply that by the 8 or 9 dps in a vet trial and it's the difference between a clear and a frustrating few hours wasted with nothing to show for it.

Backwards progression isn't exactly motivating.

BigES

Rich,

Thanks for posting. Giving us the WHY helps us help you.

You mention the word rotation quite a bit in your post. Yes increasing the duration of Blazing Spear will increase my PvE dps on my Templar. Yes increasing the duration of Curse to now allow 3 more animations between reapplication and will increase PvE dps. So very minor dps increases for Sorc and Templar in PvE.

PvP isn't about rotation. The skill changes you are proposing SIGNIFICANTLY impact Cyrodiil combat. Templars heavily rely on Blazing Spear. They already are the weakest CC class in the game. Sorcerer relies heavily on a 3.5s Curse to make sure there aren't long gaps of time between bursts periods. Not to mention, your new Haunting Curse is just going to get cleansed. You won't even see the second curse. And if I'm not on my Templar, I'll just find cover. 6s is a very long time against a good PvP player.

Balance can come from simple changes. 21% damage nerf. Good. Why can't they all be that simple? I feel like you guys are constantly overthinking ways to find balance. Like completely overhauling a skill to make it "balanced". Just add more health. Lower the damage a bit. Increase others slightly. Simple things.

Grunim

Betheny wrote: »

[

ZOS_RichLambert wrote: »

Betheny wrote: »

Gamers who need things "simplified" shouldn't be playing games!

So because i'm an older gamer and slower... I shouldn't be playing games? That's a pretty narrow view don't you think?

All the older gamers I've encountered who have difficulties playing for whatever reason realise they're not going to be playing at the high end of competitive gaming. They'll just play for fun. And taking away some of their choices by "simplifying" is removing some of their fun.

I applauded what Rich wrote and you don't speak for me thank you very much.

Lord_Eomer

Xsorus wrote: »

ZOS_RichLambert wrote: »

Update 13 has been out on the PTS for almost a week now and there’s been a lot of good feedback and questions posted with regards to the balance changes. I wanted to take a few moments to briefly discuss the overall direction for these changes so you can hopefully start to see why these changes are occurring.

For Update 13, our overall goal was to lessen the gap between the top and bottom. (in terms of overall damage output, coordinated vs. uncoordinated, small and large scale PVE & PVP) This doesn’t mean all classes are perfectly equal in all ways or that we want to remove skill from the game. We want to establish a solid baseline so that we can better tune and tweak balance. For this update we attacked this problem from multiple angles by doing the following:

1. Lowering the ceiling on the top damage
2. Raising the floor on the bottom damage
3. Simplifying some of the more intense rotations to make them a bit easier for players of all skill levels

Some of you will probably ask how the above goals translate into the changes we made. Here are some notes on a couple of the more hotly debated ones so you can see how they fit into the bigger picture:

• Proc Sets – This change falls directly into the “lower the ceiling” category for both PVP and PVE. We wanted to reduce the overall burst potential without dramatically lowering sustain. There have been a lot of comments on this change, specifically from the PVP side where sets not critting will not help because of the Impenetrable trait - Impen does not reduce the chance of being crit - it reduces the damage of the crit that hits you.
• Stun Removal on Blazing Spear – This change falls into the “simplify” category. We increased the duration of the damage on this ability to simplify the rotation. In addition we removed the stun component. Now the morph choices are more damage or more resources and disorient. (CC)
• Radiant Destruction – This one is definitely in the “lower the ceiling” category. It was strong in both PVE and PVP and needed adjustment.
• Haunting Curse – This one falls into the “simplify” category. The goal was to free up globals for more abilities to be cast with this change. (i.e. – every 10.5 seconds you get to use 3 more abilities) @Alpheu5 has a pretty great image that illustrates this change in this thread.

I didn't touch on every change or class, but I hope that sheds some light into how and why we've made some of the changes we've made. We have a lot more balance changes planned, but due to how our build cycle works, most of them won't make the next PTS build - they should hopefully make PTS3 though.

It should also be noted that what is on PTS now is our first pass at these changes. We’re evaluating all of them and will make adjustments based on both feedback and data collected, so please continue to test them on PTS and give feedback.

-rich

Explain why Destro Ult got a 3% damage buff with Lightning Staff?

AOE damage is reduced while hitting multiple targets,