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MIGHT AS WELL REMOVE STAMINA BUILDS FROM ENDGAME PvE!!!
susmitds
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Already most competitive raiders avoid having stamina DPS in their group, even if they do it is only one (usually only StamDKs or StamSorcs for that matter). These changes just killed what little chances Stamina users had in PvE. Stamina users have similar damage than their magicka counterparts in majority of the fights, much more complicated rotations, and far far lesser survivability and also forced to fight in melee causing higher risks and breaks in rotations.
Firstly stamina DPS lost a major amount of damage from the nerf to their general strongest DoT Beast Trap.
Nextly, we are seeing a big nerf to critical damage with the inability of proc sets to crit and nerfs to Major and Minor Force. Minor Force nerf especially will have a fairly good impact on stamina DPS. Also, stamina builds have higher critical hit chances from medium armor passives and also Khajiit passives if applicable. So, the nerfs affect stamina DPS way more than magicka DPS.
Now, magicka DPS got major buffs with the new destro passives and respective class buffs. Magicka DPS got a direct 8% buff to both single target and AoE DPS. Sure, there is a magicka sustain nerf but remember stamina DPS never had such great sustain skills to begin with.
It is ridiculous how magicka DPS will blatantly outperform stamina DPS while enjoying the safety of range and shields.
And as if it was not enough, tanking, which is already dominated too, will tilt further to the magicka side with the latest changes to frost staff.
Now as it stands, for all roles, DD, healer and tank, magicka builds are so much better it's not funny.
@ZOS_RichLambert , @Wrobel , @ZOS_Finn
Edited by susmitds on January 4, 2017 8:57AM Firstly stamina DPS lost a major amount of damage from the nerf to their general strongest DoT Beast Trap.
Nextly, we are seeing a big nerf to critical damage with the inability of proc sets to crit and nerfs to Major and Minor Force. Minor Force nerf especially will have a fairly good impact on stamina DPS. Also, stamina builds have higher critical hit chances from medium armor passives and also Khajiit passives if applicable. So, the nerfs affect stamina DPS way more than magicka DPS.
Now, magicka DPS got major buffs with the new destro passives and respective class buffs. Magicka DPS got a direct 8% buff to both single target and AoE DPS. Sure, there is a magicka sustain nerf but remember stamina DPS never had such great sustain skills to begin with.
It is ridiculous how magicka DPS will blatantly outperform stamina DPS while enjoying the safety of range and shields.
And as if it was not enough, tanking, which is already dominated too, will tilt further to the magicka side with the latest changes to frost staff.
Now as it stands, for all roles, DD, healer and tank, magicka builds are so much better it's not funny.
@ZOS_RichLambert , @Wrobel , @ZOS_Finn
28
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susmitds✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Carbonised wrote: »
You can use S&B main bar with frost staff back bar for times as a back up.
Point is that it gives magicka tanks even more options without giving anything to stamina tanks.1 -
code65536✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭lolwut?!
Have you seen the nerfs to magicka sustain? And the nerf to Major Force (LOL @ their nonsense about it being the same as before) affects both resource types.Nightfighters ― PC/NA and PC/EU
Dungeons and Trials:Personal best scores:- Dragonstar Arena: 46817 (NA)
- Maelstrom Arena: 600526 (NA)
- Blackrose Prison: 99274 (EU) (Unchained)
- Maw of Lorkhaj: 165227 (EU)
- Halls of Fabrication: 220708 (NA) (Tick-Tock Tormentor #1, #2, #3, #4, #5, #6, #7, #8, #9, #10, #11, #12)
- Asylum Sanctorium: 114957 (NA) (Immortal Redeemer #1, #2, #3, #4, #5, #6, #7, #8, #9, #10)
- Cloudrest: 131256 (NA) (Gryphon Heart #1, #2, #3, #4, #5, #6, #7)
- Sunspire: 250866 (EU) (Godslayer #1, #2, #3, #4, #5, #6)
- Kyne's Aegis: 235841 (EU) (Dawnbringer #1, #2, #3, #4, #5, #6, #7, #8)
Dungeon trifectas:- Mountain God and Leave No Bone Unbroken
- Apex Predator and Pure Lunacy
- Depths Defier and Relentless Raider
- Defanged the Devourer and Nature's Wrath
- In Defiance of Death and No Rest for the Wicked
- Bane of Thorns and True Genius
- Ardent Bibliophile and Subterranean Smasher
- Battlespire's Best and Bastion Breaker
- Zero Regrets and Land, Air, and Sea Supremacy
- Fist of Tava and Invader's Bane
- Curator's Champion (Valinna) and Temporal Tempest
- Unshakeable Fervor and Lighting the Embers
Extended Journal Add-Ons: Item Set Browser ― Loot Log ― Character Knowledge ― Event Collectibles ― RaidificatorOther Add-Ons: Combat Alerts ― Deconstruction Junk Marker ― Purge Tracker ― vHoF Status Panel ― Asylum Status Panel ― Smart Looter ― Improved Companion Rapport Information9 -
susmitds✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭lolwut?!
Have you seen the nerfs to magicka sustain? And the nerf to Major Force (LOL @ their nonsense about it being the same as before) affects both resource types.
Magicka DPS have around 12% lesser crit chance than their Khajiit stamina counterparts. It is easy to understand magicka DPS is less affected by the nerf.3 -
Cellentel✭✭✭✭Carbonised wrote: »
You can use S&B main bar with frost staff back bar for times as a back up.
Point is that it gives magicka tanks even more options without giving anything to stamina tanks.
Also, you always have Inner Fire for a taunt. You'd miss out on Major Fracture, though.0 -
Asmael✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭As it currently stands, stamina DDs have a niche - single target damage - which helps pushing that little extra DPS to skip an extra round of mechanics, but at the cost of mediocre cleave damage, melee-only and half-sized damage shields. It's not a small drawback.
Those changes absolutely destroy that niche. Stamplars and stam NBs are literally inexistent in endgame PvE - yet are getting nerfed further (could say the same about mag NB to be entirely honest).
The main point where stamina DDs win with those changes is sustain, because of the changes to Elemental drain / Siphon spirit.
The Major force being "basically the same as before" is absolute BS, sorry.50% base crit damage * 1.3 = 65%
50% base crit damage + 15% = 65%
This is the same with no critical bonus taken into account. There isn't a single DD build for which it's going to be the same, CPs alone are reason enough. Anyone using Minor Force is getting nerfed. Anyone using TBS with Shadow mundus is getting nerfed.Edited by Asmael on January 4, 2017 12:05AMPC EU - Zahraji of the Void, aka "Kitty", the fluffiest salmon genocider in town.
Poke @AsmaeI (last letter is uppercase "i") on PC EU or Asmael#9325 on Discord and receive a meow today.6 -
Joy_Division✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭lolwut?!
Have you seen the nerfs to magicka sustain? And the nerf to Major Force (LOL @ their nonsense about it being the same as before) affects both resource types.
^^
PvE DPS got an overall nerf due to the crit change mechanics. And I'm not a fan of most of the balance changes. But can we at least have some actual runs before saying a class or play-style is now useless?5 -
code65536✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Minor Magickasteal returns less than Ele, is capped at once per second (vs. once per hit), and you can no longer stack Ele with Siphon. It'll be interesting to see what magicka sustain is going to be like, but it doesn't look pretty at all on paper.Nightfighters ― PC/NA and PC/EU
Dungeons and Trials:Personal best scores:- Dragonstar Arena: 46817 (NA)
- Maelstrom Arena: 600526 (NA)
- Blackrose Prison: 99274 (EU) (Unchained)
- Maw of Lorkhaj: 165227 (EU)
- Halls of Fabrication: 220708 (NA) (Tick-Tock Tormentor #1, #2, #3, #4, #5, #6, #7, #8, #9, #10, #11, #12)
- Asylum Sanctorium: 114957 (NA) (Immortal Redeemer #1, #2, #3, #4, #5, #6, #7, #8, #9, #10)
- Cloudrest: 131256 (NA) (Gryphon Heart #1, #2, #3, #4, #5, #6, #7)
- Sunspire: 250866 (EU) (Godslayer #1, #2, #3, #4, #5, #6)
- Kyne's Aegis: 235841 (EU) (Dawnbringer #1, #2, #3, #4, #5, #6, #7, #8)
Dungeon trifectas:- Mountain God and Leave No Bone Unbroken
- Apex Predator and Pure Lunacy
- Depths Defier and Relentless Raider
- Defanged the Devourer and Nature's Wrath
- In Defiance of Death and No Rest for the Wicked
- Bane of Thorns and True Genius
- Ardent Bibliophile and Subterranean Smasher
- Battlespire's Best and Bastion Breaker
- Zero Regrets and Land, Air, and Sea Supremacy
- Fist of Tava and Invader's Bane
- Curator's Champion (Valinna) and Temporal Tempest
- Unshakeable Fervor and Lighting the Embers
Extended Journal Add-Ons: Item Set Browser ― Loot Log ― Character Knowledge ― Event Collectibles ― RaidificatorOther Add-Ons: Combat Alerts ― Deconstruction Junk Marker ― Purge Tracker ― vHoF Status Panel ― Asylum Status Panel ― Smart Looter ― Improved Companion Rapport Information8 -
Edziu✭✭✭✭✭
✭lolwut?!
Have you seen the nerfs to magicka sustain? And the nerf to Major Force (LOL @ their nonsense about it being the same as before) affects both resource types.
Magicka DPS have around 12% lesser crit chance than their Khajiit stamina counterparts. It is easy to understand magicka DPS is less affected by the nerf.
if you cant see magdk/templar is doing almost no significant less dps than stam dk/sorc which is doing the best dps in game, can say they are on same lvl of doing dps and then is going magsorc with very nice surviv and then stam nb/templar with no surviv and then mag nb the worst possible dps but also good surviv because of magic shields, heals etc1 -
Vezuls✭✭✭lolwut?!
Have you seen the nerfs to magicka sustain? And the nerf to Major Force (LOL @ their nonsense about it being the same as before) affects both resource types.
According to them major force is the same, they simply changed it to additive and not multiplicative and tweaked the value.
Base Crit damage multiplier is an additional .5. .5 * 30% = .15. = .15 increased crit hit damage
They made it additive .15.
.15 = .15.
So, if what they are saying is true, Major force operates the same as before.
Is what they are saying false?
How was sustain nerfed? Most guilds only ran drain anyway, so I don't see a nerf here tbh.
Could have sworn drain had a 1 second ICD, as Force Pulse did not return magic 3 times, however did give 3 chances to proc siphoning attacks.Edited by Vezuls on January 3, 2017 11:59PM0 -
susmitds✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭lolwut?!
Have you seen the nerfs to magicka sustain? And the nerf to Major Force (LOL @ their nonsense about it being the same as before) affects both resource types.
Magicka DPS have around 12% lesser crit chance than their Khajiit stamina counterparts. It is easy to understand magicka DPS is less affected by the nerf.
if you cant see magdk/templar is doing almost no significant less dps than stam dk/sorc which is doing the best dps in game, can say they are on same lvl of doing dps and then is going magsorc with very nice surviv and then stam nb/templar with no surviv and then mag nb the worst possible dps but also good surviv because of magic shields, heals etc
MagDKs are hitting 54k+ in vet trials which is higher than what Stamsorc does. StamDK can get 56k+ but that usually requires 4 support sets. Magplars hit as high 55k+ but I guess it will fall to around 51-52k.2 -
Edziu✭✭✭✭✭
✭lolwut?!
Have you seen the nerfs to magicka sustain? And the nerf to Major Force (LOL @ their nonsense about it being the same as before) affects both resource types.
Magicka DPS have around 12% lesser crit chance than their Khajiit stamina counterparts. It is easy to understand magicka DPS is less affected by the nerf.
if you cant see magdk/templar is doing almost no significant less dps than stam dk/sorc which is doing the best dps in game, can say they are on same lvl of doing dps and then is going magsorc with very nice surviv and then stam nb/templar with no surviv and then mag nb the worst possible dps but also good surviv because of magic shields, heals etc
MagDKs are hitting 54k+ in vet trials which is higher than what Stamsorc does. StamDK can get 56k+ but that usually requires 4 support sets. Magplars hit as high 55k+ but I guess it will fall to around 51-52k.
oops sorry, didnt read good thisIt is easy to understand magicka DPS is less affected by the nerf.
1 -
xblackroxe✭✭✭✭✭lolwut?!
Have you seen the nerfs to magicka sustain? And the nerf to Major Force (LOL @ their nonsense about it being the same as before) affects both resource types.
According to them major force is the same, they simply changed it to additive and not multiplicative and tweaked the value.
Base Crit damage multiplier is an additional .5. .5 * 30% = .15. = .15 increased crit hit damage
They made it additive .15.
.15 = .15.
So, if what they are saying is true, Major force operates the same as before.
Is what they are saying false?
How was sustain nerfed? Most guilds only ran drain anyway, so I don't see a nerf here tbh.
Could have sworn drain had a 1 second ICD, as Force Pulse did not return magic 3 times, however did give 3 chances to proc siphoning attacks.
Bc no dd has no other source of critdamage except the normal one. At least quite a few points into elfborn + trap and passives on some classes. So it got nerfed.Member of HODOR
Dro-m'Athra Destroyer0 -
code65536✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭lolwut?!
Have you seen the nerfs to magicka sustain? And the nerf to Major Force (LOL @ their nonsense about it being the same as before) affects both resource types.
According to them major force is the same, they simply changed it to additive and not multiplicative and tweaked the value.
Base Crit damage multiplier is an additional .5. .5 * 30% = .15. = .15 increased crit hit damage
They made it additive .15.
.15 = .15.
So, if what they are saying is true, Major force operates the same as before.
Is what they are saying false?
Old calculation:
(0.5 + CP + Class Passives + Shadow + Minor Force + Set Bonuses) * 1.3
New Calculation:
0.5 + CP + Class Passives + Shadow + Minor Force + Set Bonuses + 0.15
The only instance in which the new calculation is the same as the old is if your one and only source of CHD is the base 0.5 that everyone starts out with.
If you spent any points in Elfborn or Precise Strike, this is a nerf. If you're a NB/Templar, your class passives grant 0.1 CHD, so it's a nerf for every NB/Templar. If you were using Trap or Stalwart Guard, it's a nerf for you. If you used the Shadow Mundus (TBS), this is a nerf. If you used the Archer's Mind set, this is a nerf. My magicka nightblade in my dungeon setup without TBS and without Trap has a CHD of 0.74, and in this case, the new Major Force is only 67% as effective as the old Major Force. Taken to the extreme, my old trials setup in which I used Trap and TBS, I had a CHD of 1.04--in this case, the new Major Force is less than half as effective.
So they are technically correct that it's the same, only in an absurdly narrowly-defined--and extremely unrealistic--scenario in which someone has absolutely no other sources of CHD. If they want to nerf crit, whatever. But they shouldn't effing lie through their teeth about it. Call it a nerf. Don't give us this it's-the-same BS.Edited by code65536 on January 4, 2017 12:16AMNightfighters ― PC/NA and PC/EU
Dungeons and Trials:Personal best scores:- Dragonstar Arena: 46817 (NA)
- Maelstrom Arena: 600526 (NA)
- Blackrose Prison: 99274 (EU) (Unchained)
- Maw of Lorkhaj: 165227 (EU)
- Halls of Fabrication: 220708 (NA) (Tick-Tock Tormentor #1, #2, #3, #4, #5, #6, #7, #8, #9, #10, #11, #12)
- Asylum Sanctorium: 114957 (NA) (Immortal Redeemer #1, #2, #3, #4, #5, #6, #7, #8, #9, #10)
- Cloudrest: 131256 (NA) (Gryphon Heart #1, #2, #3, #4, #5, #6, #7)
- Sunspire: 250866 (EU) (Godslayer #1, #2, #3, #4, #5, #6)
- Kyne's Aegis: 235841 (EU) (Dawnbringer #1, #2, #3, #4, #5, #6, #7, #8)
Dungeon trifectas:- Mountain God and Leave No Bone Unbroken
- Apex Predator and Pure Lunacy
- Depths Defier and Relentless Raider
- Defanged the Devourer and Nature's Wrath
- In Defiance of Death and No Rest for the Wicked
- Bane of Thorns and True Genius
- Ardent Bibliophile and Subterranean Smasher
- Battlespire's Best and Bastion Breaker
- Zero Regrets and Land, Air, and Sea Supremacy
- Fist of Tava and Invader's Bane
- Curator's Champion (Valinna) and Temporal Tempest
- Unshakeable Fervor and Lighting the Embers
Extended Journal Add-Ons: Item Set Browser ― Loot Log ― Character Knowledge ― Event Collectibles ― RaidificatorOther Add-Ons: Combat Alerts ― Deconstruction Junk Marker ― Purge Tracker ― vHoF Status Panel ― Asylum Status Panel ― Smart Looter ― Improved Companion Rapport Information18 -
OrphanHelgen✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭They make money on casual role players, thats the only reason.
The percentage of players who do end game pve trials, are minor, and will have less priority.PC, EU server, Ebonheart Pact
Finally a reason not to play League of Legends2 -
STEVIL✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Should this thread and the one in general where part of the discussion is how magica should just hang it up and go home from pve now get together over drinks and have an baby named "Sally Speculates"?
Proudly skooma free while talks-when-drunk is in mandatory public housing.
YFMV Your Fun May Vary.
First Law of Nerf-o-Dynamics
"The good way I used to get good kills *with good skill* was good but the way others kill me now is bad."1 -
susmitds✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Should this thread and the one in general where part of the discussion is how magica should just hang it up and go home from pve now get together over drinks and have an baby named "Sally Speculates"?
It does not take a genius to figure that magicka DPS got buffed by at least 8%. Sure, their sustain took a hit but remember stamina DPS never had such great sustain skills to begin with.2 -
Dracane✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Give them an L give them a 2 give them a PAuri-El is my lord,
Trinimac is my shield,
Magnus is my mind.0 -
SublimeSparo✭✭✭✭✭Minor Magickasteal returns less than Ele, is capped at once per second (vs. once per hit), and you can no longer stack Ele with Siphon. It'll be interesting to see what magicka sustain is going to be like, but it doesn't look pretty at all on paper.
Spell symmetry meta comeback.PS4 EU CP900. PS4 NA CP600,
vAA HM ☆ vHRC HM ☆ vSO HM ☆ vMOL
4th Console vMOL clear,
vMA cleared on all classes stam & magic
My TribeEU
High Sparo - Altmer - mSo DD.
Wood Sparo - Bosmer - sNB DD
Nord Sparo - Nord -sDK DD/Tank.
Bubble Girl - Imperial -sTe DD
Succubus Sue - Breton - mNB Tank.
Andrana Stormlock - Altmer - mTe Healer/ DD
Elvali Marvani - Dunmer - mDK DD.
Venemus Draconem - Redguard - sDK DD
Jayri Leki - Redguard - sSo DD.
Miss Jabsalot - Altmer - mTe PvP DD/ Tank
Mireli Hlaano - Dunmer - mNB DD.
Ms Shanks - Redguard - sNB DD/ le bank
NA
Dilemma Dame - Altmer - mDK DD
Stamsorc Kitty - Redguard - sSor DD
Aia Draconis - Imperial - sDK Tank
Decides-Who-Lives - Argonian - mTe Healer
You wont stop me - Altmer - mSo DD
Stab in the dark - Khajiit - sNB DD
Jabjabjab Beambeambeam - Dunmer - mTe DD
Spatium Auxiliarus - Imperial - hTe Tank&bank
Spectre - Altmer - mNB DD
Can't-Main-Tank -Argonian - sDK offTank2 -
susmitds✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Like magblades or magplars are still worth looking at? Overall pve DPS seems to be nerfed to the ground.
Honestly support magblades are badly screwed in this patch. However magblades still benefit from the 8% extra damage this patch, meaning they still gets to outperform their stamina counterparts.0 -
susmitds✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭
Adjust to nerfs?!!!
LOL wut.. Mag sorcs were still the most sought after class in trials for DPS. Shield stacking got a buff in PvP rather than a nerf while sorcs who don't stack shields got nerfed.
How many StamNBs or Stamplars do you see in trials? Almost all raids refuse have them in their groups. 90% raids are all magicka.
Also, you were also the guy who screamed about how destro ulti is useless and needs nerfs. Guess what, it is now the strongest ultimate in both PvP and PvE (another reason why stamina DD are not allowed in most trials as nobody wants to give up a destro ulti user).
@Alcast @Gilliamtherogue4 -
Jaronking✭✭✭✭✭
✭It sucks how they just keep pushing stam out of endgame group PVE.Its so stupid with how trials are design stam is just not worth it when it just plan easier on the group for everyone to go magic.0 -
Carbonised✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Also, you were also the guy who screamed about how destro ulti is useless and needs nerfs. Guess what, it is now the strongest ultimate in both PvP and PvE (another reason why stamina DD are not allowed in most trials as nobody wants to give up a destro ulti user).
Well it's apparent you clearly have no idea what you're talking about, and that your stam bias is beyond comprehension.
Destro ulti has uses in PvP, mostly the eye morph, the other one is easily avoidable (when lag allows you to actually see it).
However, as has been proven time and time over, destro ult is vastly inferior to most other ults in PvE content. Shooting Star already does much more damage per ult point than Fire Storm, where mobs don't step out of your ground aoes. the 5 % nerf to the ult makes meteor even more preferable compared to destro ult. Banner for mDKs is also vastly overperforming the destro ult, even with the oncoming nerf to banner. Hell, with the magicka morph of Dragon Leap, that one may too have more damage potential than destro ult, time will tell.
Calling destro ult "the strongest ultimate in PvE" is laughable at best, ignorant at worst.0 -
Dracane✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭
Adjust to nerfs?!!!
LOL wut.. Mag sorcs were still the most sought after class in trials for DPS. Shield stacking got a buff in PvP rather than a nerf while sorcs who don't stack shields got nerfed.
How many StamNBs or Stamplars do you see in trials? Almost all raids refuse have them in their groups. 90% raids are all magicka.
Also, you were also the guy who screamed about how destro ulti is useless and needs nerfs. Guess what, it is now the strongest ultimate in both PvP and PvE (another reason why stamina DD are not allowed in most trials as nobody wants to give up a destro ulti user).
@Alcast @Gilliamtherogue
I never stacked shields, so you feel me
Mag Sorc had to adjust to so many nerfs and changes over the years. Stamina on the other hand only had to adjust to dozens of buffs.
And noooo please don't summon them Stamina Supremacists. I leave, but don't.Edited by Dracane on January 4, 2017 9:26AMAuri-El is my lord,
Trinimac is my shield,
Magnus is my mind.0 -
susmitds✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭
Adjust to nerfs?!!!
LOL wut.. Mag sorcs were still the most sought after class in trials for DPS. Shield stacking got a buff in PvP rather than a nerf while sorcs who don't stack shields got nerfed.
How many StamNBs or Stamplars do you see in trials? Almost all raids refuse have them in their groups. 90% raids are all magicka.
Also, you were also the guy who screamed about how destro ulti is useless and needs nerfs. Guess what, it is now the strongest ultimate in both PvP and PvE (another reason why stamina DD are not allowed in most trials as nobody wants to give up a destro ulti user).
@Alcast @Gilliamtherogue
I never stacked shields, so you feel me
Mag Sorc had to adjust to so many nerfs and changes over the years. Stamina on the other hand only had to adjust to dozens of buffs.
Stamina dozen of buffs? All the buffs were the broken proc sets.2 -
Mojmir✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Instead of making better combat, they nerd us too slow it down.GG zo$, your clueless.0
