MIGHT AS WELL REMOVE STAMINA BUILDS FROM ENDGAME PvE!!!

susmitds

Carbonised wrote: »

susmitds wrote: »

Also, you were also the guy who screamed about how destro ulti is useless and needs nerfs. Guess what, it is now the strongest ultimate in both PvP and PvE (another reason why stamina DD are not allowed in most trials as nobody wants to give up a destro ulti user).

Well it's apparent you clearly have no idea what you're talking about, and that your stam bias is beyond comprehension.

Destro ulti has uses in PvP, mostly the eye morph, the other one is easily avoidable (when lag allows you to actually see it).

However, as has been proven time and time over, destro ult is vastly inferior to most other ults in PvE content. Shooting Star already does much more damage per ult point than Fire Storm, where mobs don't step out of your ground aoes. the 5 % nerf to the ult makes meteor even more preferable compared to destro ult. Banner for mDKs is also vastly overperforming the destro ult, even with the oncoming nerf to banner. Hell, with the magicka morph of Dragon Leap, that one may too have more damage potential than destro ult, time will tell.

Calling destro ult "the strongest ultimate in PvE" is laughable at best, ignorant at worst.

Trash packs take up significant amount of time in trials and there are bosses with tons of mobs. Destro ultimate significantly decreases times in these encounters. Meteor, Banner are both mag ultis as well. The closest stamina ultimate in rend and that is weaker than all these in general case scenario.

f047ys3v3n

susmitds wrote: »

Now, magicka DPS got major buffs with the new destro passives and respective class buffs. Magicka DPS got a direct 8% buff to both single target and AoE DPS.
@ZOS_RichLambert , @Wrobel , @ZOS_Finn

Think about this more closely before you get pissed or excited. Destro has 8% to single, Shock 8% to AOE. How are you actually going to get that. Most of your DOT's on a boss are technically AOE's you probably get nothing from your flame staff on these. Even your spamable, force pulse is an AOE. Maybe nothing for that either. How about on that shock staff for single target to get the benefit for your DOT's? Your now giving up your burning damage and you can't weave heavy attacks so you have to go with light attacks but I don't think they count as an AOE so no buff to them and going all light attack between skills speeds the rotation a little increasing magica use at that same time as sustain has been nerfed. Also, that shock staff just lost it's tripple proc on infal and vMA so not so shiny now anyway.

All I am saying is look carefully, these passives will probably not help most of us much and we will probably overall see a huge dps loss instead of gain on the magic side even DK's who I think were hit the least.

mNB - Honestly dead. It was holding on because funnel was so cheap and it could get away with no resource concerns. That one change would do away with it but it also looks like maybe relentless is screwed up too to add to that.

mSorc- Takes a hit on the really awesome Llambris set nerf as well as on the change to curse. Also, overload will likely not be a thing in vMA anymore. I still expect it to be the highest ranged dps though ranged dps will continue to fall relative to melee making the game as a whole suck more.

mDK- So standard isn't quite as good (Still awesome though) and you can't heal with dragon blood (you already can't) the biggest hit will be the grothdar thing. mDK will still be the highest magica dps.

mTemp - Will still have the best execute though it will not be as good. Shards now suck in pvp and no longer align with any of the other templar DOT timings (do you devs even play this game).

Overall first we should say that the melee complaints of stam users for DOT timings and mechanics apply equally to magica melee and really all high magica dps is that. Second we should say that all those high numbers that magica users get are because their DOT's cleave. In single target terms they are no where near stam now and will be further after this patch. I don't know where raid dps will go after the patch. Lots of folks already cheat engine the build they want to play to get the numbers of higher dps builds they don't want to play giving a very different impression to ZOS than reality. Perhaps they just turn up the numbers more and you all will think sorcs ranged to melee stam dk numbers.

I do know we are all taking a big dps nerf in this patch though. That is for darn sure. Kiss those vMoL hard modes good by and get ready for some pretty arduous vMA completes if you had gotten used to smooth runs especially on mNB which is dead or mSorc as there will be no overload easy mode. Or, just turn the cheat engine up a bit higher as I don't see anything saying they are cracking down on that.

luxfreak

Dracane wrote: »

susmitds wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

susmitds wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

Give them an L give them a 2 give them a P

Obvious troll is obvious.

I had to adjust to so many nerfs and changes. I expect others to be capable of doing the same.

Even if it's sad.

Adjust to nerfs?!!!

LOL wut.. Mag sorcs were still the most sought after class in trials for DPS. Shield stacking got a buff in PvP rather than a nerf while sorcs who don't stack shields got nerfed.

How many StamNBs or Stamplars do you see in trials? Almost all raids refuse have them in their groups. 90% raids are all magicka.

Also, you were also the guy who screamed about how destro ulti is useless and needs nerfs. Guess what, it is now the strongest ultimate in both PvP and PvE (another reason why stamina DD are not allowed in most trials as nobody wants to give up a destro ulti user).

@Alcast @Gilliamtherogue

I never stacked shields, so you feel me
Mag Sorc had to adjust to so many nerfs and changes over the years. Stamina on the other hand only had to adjust to dozens of buffs.

And noooo please don't summon them Stamina Supremacists. I leave, but don't.

Well, its true that in the 9 month since TG, stamina was in a good spot, at least Single Target Wise.
That does not chance the Fact that Stamina was complete garbage the 6 month befor that. And i cant realy say how good stamina dds where even befor that, but as far as i can remember it was not a very good spot as well.
So please dont *** me that stamina had to adjust to dozens of buffs.

What you are missing completly is also the fact that only stam dk and stam sorc were viable to begin with, stam templar and stam nightblades, who never seen a vmol kill befor i guess, will now dont even see a 'celestial mage' go down.

Tinus_92

susmitds wrote: »

code65536 wrote: »

lolwut?!

Have you seen the nerfs to magicka sustain? And the nerf to Major Force (LOL @ their nonsense about it being the same as before) affects both resource types.

Magicka DPS have around 12% lesser crit chance than their Khajiit stamina counterparts. It is easy to understand magicka DPS is less affected by the nerf.

magicka DPS less affected? Just one example here, running a magplar with aether, tbs & grothdarr. To just sum up -some- nerfs;

Templar nerfs:
- Blazing spear stun being taken away
- Radiant Opression > straight damage nerf (instead of solving pvp issues?)

Magicka DPS nerfs:
- Less spell critical
- Warhorn nerf -> TBS becoming less usefull
- Grothdarr also is a proc set, so this is another nerf
- Overall critical damage nerf (build running 70% spell crit)
- - Magicka sustain being nerfed with elemental drain
- Even the infallible aether seems to be nerfed.

This is going to hit hard for endgame pve builds and whole trial groups altogether, if things won't change.

xXSilverDragonXx

code65536 wrote: »

Minor Magickasteal returns less than Ele, is capped at once per second (vs. once per hit), and you can no longer stack Ele with Siphon. It'll be interesting to see what magicka sustain is going to be like, but it doesn't look pretty at all on paper.

It will probably look less pretty in game. I truly believe they do not test these things or many of these updates would not have been what they were causing people to leave whole classes behind.

Pallio

They either want everyone to quit or think housing will be all they care about in this patch. Either way not spending another dime on this game.

f047ys3v3n

Pallio wrote: »

They either want everyone to quit or think housing will be all they care about in this patch. Either way not spending another dime on this game.

Maybe so, but they did totally destroy magica NB, cause major adjustments for Sorc, and substantially decrease magica sustain and dps across the board. Conversely, they also made some interesting changes to the destro line that make ranged magica dps more interesting in pvp. At least it would be if the actual damage output was higher. It is rather hard to imagine it being that useful when a force pulse might hit for 4k in pvp wheras a crit charge often does 12k and a CC.

hedna123b14_ESO

Vezuls wrote: »

code65536 wrote: »

lolwut?!

Have you seen the nerfs to magicka sustain? And the nerf to Major Force (LOL @ their nonsense about it being the same as before) affects both resource types.

According to them major force is the same, they simply changed it to additive and not multiplicative and tweaked the value.

Base Crit damage multiplier is an additional .5. .5 * 30% = .15. = .15 increased crit hit damage
They made it additive .15.
.15 = .15.

So, if what they are saying is true, Major force operates the same as before.

Is what they are saying false?

How was sustain nerfed? Most guilds only ran drain anyway, so I don't see a nerf here tbh.
Could have sworn drain had a 1 second ICD, as Force Pulse did not return magic 3 times, however did give 3 chances to proc siphoning attacks.

Base crit multiplier is .5 and .5 x 30% = .15........the issue is you are forgetting about elfborn and aedric spear and trap, adding those into the mix ultimately significantly nerfs warhorn...

Also Siphon is important for sustain and is definitely run by guilds...

hedna123b14_ESO

susmitds wrote: »

Carbonised wrote: »

susmitds wrote: »

Also, you were also the guy who screamed about how destro ulti is useless and needs nerfs. Guess what, it is now the strongest ultimate in both PvP and PvE (another reason why stamina DD are not allowed in most trials as nobody wants to give up a destro ulti user).

Well it's apparent you clearly have no idea what you're talking about, and that your stam bias is beyond comprehension.

Destro ulti has uses in PvP, mostly the eye morph, the other one is easily avoidable (when lag allows you to actually see it).

However, as has been proven time and time over, destro ult is vastly inferior to most other ults in PvE content. Shooting Star already does much more damage per ult point than Fire Storm, where mobs don't step out of your ground aoes. the 5 % nerf to the ult makes meteor even more preferable compared to destro ult. Banner for mDKs is also vastly overperforming the destro ult, even with the oncoming nerf to banner. Hell, with the magicka morph of Dragon Leap, that one may too have more damage potential than destro ult, time will tell.

Calling destro ult "the strongest ultimate in PvE" is laughable at best, ignorant at worst.

Trash packs take up significant amount of time in trials and there are bosses with tons of mobs. Destro ultimate significantly decreases times in these encounters. Meteor, Banner are both mag ultis as well. The closest stamina ultimate in rend and that is weaker than all these in general case scenario.

Lightning Destro ulti is the highest hitting ultimate in the game, especially when you calculate the Damage/ulti....

susmitds

Tinus_92 wrote: »

susmitds wrote: »

code65536 wrote: »

lolwut?!

Have you seen the nerfs to magicka sustain? And the nerf to Major Force (LOL @ their nonsense about it being the same as before) affects both resource types.

Magicka DPS have around 12% lesser crit chance than their Khajiit stamina counterparts. It is easy to understand magicka DPS is less affected by the nerf.

magicka DPS less affected? Just one example here, running a magplar with aether, tbs & grothdarr. To just sum up -some- nerfs;

Templar nerfs:
- Blazing spear stun being taken away
- Radiant Opression > straight damage nerf (instead of solving pvp issues?)

Magicka DPS nerfs:
- Less spell critical
- Warhorn nerf -> TBS becoming less usefull
- Grothdarr also is a proc set, so this is another nerf
- Overall critical damage nerf (build running 70% spell crit)
- - Magicka sustain being nerfed with elemental drain
- Even the infallible aether seems to be nerfed.

This is going to hit hard for endgame pve builds and whole trial groups altogether, if things won't change.

Apart from Magplars, all magicka classes including Force-Pulse using NBs have been buffed. Blazing Spear has two more ticks, so it ends up better for PvE.

Magicka DPS buffs

- Spell critical chance remains same.
- Average magicka DPS crit chance is around 70-75% where as average stamina DPS crit chance is around 80-85%. So by default, crit nerfs affect stamina DPS more.
- As said in previous point, a drop from 85% chance to crit for proc sets to zero is bigger than 75% to zero. So stamina sets like Kraagh is more affected.
- Destro gets direct 8% extra damage buff. Lightning staff gets added Minor Vulnerability for yet another 8% extra damage.
- Sure, magicka sustain got nerfed. But currently speaking, there are way more skills for magicka sustain than stamina. You lost 1 skill which never had a stamina equivalent to begin with.

Tremors

hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »

susmitds wrote: »

Carbonised wrote: »

susmitds wrote: »

Also, you were also the guy who screamed about how destro ulti is useless and needs nerfs. Guess what, it is now the strongest ultimate in both PvP and PvE (another reason why stamina DD are not allowed in most trials as nobody wants to give up a destro ulti user).

Well it's apparent you clearly have no idea what you're talking about, and that your stam bias is beyond comprehension.

Destro ulti has uses in PvP, mostly the eye morph, the other one is easily avoidable (when lag allows you to actually see it).

However, as has been proven time and time over, destro ult is vastly inferior to most other ults in PvE content. Shooting Star already does much more damage per ult point than Fire Storm, where mobs don't step out of your ground aoes. the 5 % nerf to the ult makes meteor even more preferable compared to destro ult. Banner for mDKs is also vastly overperforming the destro ult, even with the oncoming nerf to banner. Hell, with the magicka morph of Dragon Leap, that one may too have more damage potential than destro ult, time will tell.

Calling destro ult "the strongest ultimate in PvE" is laughable at best, ignorant at worst.

Trash packs take up significant amount of time in trials and there are bosses with tons of mobs. Destro ultimate significantly decreases times in these encounters. Meteor, Banner are both mag ultis as well. The closest stamina ultimate in rend and that is weaker than all these in general case scenario.

Lightning Destro ulti is the highest hitting ultimate in the game, especially when you calculate the Damage/ulti....

Maybe people will listen to you with this because they certainly don't listen to me.

Izaki

All the people saying stamblades aren't viable... Wut? Their single target is on par with stam sorcs. This patch, with the Hurricane and Standard nerf, NBs are going to be just as good as DKs and Sorcs. Overall stamina damage will definitely go down, but so will magicka damage. Without monster sets, stamina builds pull more single target DPS. Guess what? Magicka monster sets are nerfed too. I think that its too early to judge. We need to do DPS tests. IMO the damage output will be equal.

susmitds

IzakiBrotheSs wrote: »

All the people saying stamblades aren't viable... Wut? Their single target is on par with stam sorcs. This patch, with the Hurricane and Standard nerf, NBs are going to be just as good as DKs and Sorcs. Overall stamina damage will definitely go down, but so will magicka damage. Without monster sets, stamina builds pull more single target DPS. Guess what? Magicka monster sets are nerfed too. I think that its too early to judge. We need to do DPS tests. IMO the damage output will be equal.

It is proven fact that stamNBs get lesser DPS than stamsorcs. Highest DPS by Stamsorcs crossed 55k+. Highest DPS by Stamblades are around 52k. Passive-wise Stamsorcs get higher stamina, weapon damage which remain unchanged while Stamblades get higher critical damage chance and multiplier which got nerfed due to changes. On top of that, Stamsorcs get 7% extra physical damage (affects Hail, Rapid Strikes, etc) and Implosion passives and Hurricane. As small as they are, they still add up, giving them the edge over stamblades. And then comes survivability, Stamsorcs with the one of highest of classes against the absolute lowest.

Integral1900

I'm going to need a lot of popcorn over the next month

FleetwoodSmack

Integral1900 wrote: »

I'm going to need a lot of popcorn over the next month

Popcorn got a nerf too because of all this salt.

Jaronking

hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »

susmitds wrote: »

Carbonised wrote: »

susmitds wrote: »

Also, you were also the guy who screamed about how destro ulti is useless and needs nerfs. Guess what, it is now the strongest ultimate in both PvP and PvE (another reason why stamina DD are not allowed in most trials as nobody wants to give up a destro ulti user).

Well it's apparent you clearly have no idea what you're talking about, and that your stam bias is beyond comprehension.

Destro ulti has uses in PvP, mostly the eye morph, the other one is easily avoidable (when lag allows you to actually see it).

However, as has been proven time and time over, destro ult is vastly inferior to most other ults in PvE content. Shooting Star already does much more damage per ult point than Fire Storm, where mobs don't step out of your ground aoes. the 5 % nerf to the ult makes meteor even more preferable compared to destro ult. Banner for mDKs is also vastly overperforming the destro ult, even with the oncoming nerf to banner. Hell, with the magicka morph of Dragon Leap, that one may too have more damage potential than destro ult, time will tell.

Calling destro ult "the strongest ultimate in PvE" is laughable at best, ignorant at worst.

Trash packs take up significant amount of time in trials and there are bosses with tons of mobs. Destro ultimate significantly decreases times in these encounters. Meteor, Banner are both mag ultis as well. The closest stamina ultimate in rend and that is weaker than all these in general case scenario.

Lightning Destro ulti is the highest hitting ultimate in the game, especially when you calculate the Damage/ulti....

With the changes to try focus and ancient knowledge the lightening ultimate going to deal 11% more damage then it currently deal on live.So it will probably out damage Meteor now.

Nifty2g

hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »

Vezuls wrote: »

code65536 wrote: »

lolwut?!

Have you seen the nerfs to magicka sustain? And the nerf to Major Force (LOL @ their nonsense about it being the same as before) affects both resource types.

According to them major force is the same, they simply changed it to additive and not multiplicative and tweaked the value.

Base Crit damage multiplier is an additional .5. .5 * 30% = .15. = .15 increased crit hit damage
They made it additive .15.
.15 = .15.

So, if what they are saying is true, Major force operates the same as before.

Is what they are saying false?

How was sustain nerfed? Most guilds only ran drain anyway, so I don't see a nerf here tbh.
Could have sworn drain had a 1 second ICD, as Force Pulse did not return magic 3 times, however did give 3 chances to proc siphoning attacks.

Base crit multiplier is .5 and .5 x 30% = .15........the issue is you are forgetting about elfborn and aedric spear and trap, adding those into the mix ultimately significantly nerfs warhorn...

Also Siphon is important for sustain and is definitely run by guilds...

We have dropped siphon and worm, have had no issues with sustain what so ever as long as healers are good with orbs.

Probably have to go back to worm though to account for the changes

STEVIL

susmitds wrote: »

STEVIL wrote: »

Should this thread and the one in general where part of the discussion is how magica should just hang it up and go home from pve now get together over drinks and have an baby named "Sally Speculates"?

It does not take a genius to figure that magicka DPS got buffed by at least 8%. Sure, their sustain took a hit but remember stamina DPS never had such great sustain skills to begin with.

Well i dont know much about geniuses... but...

From an actual look at several of the changes -

the 8% you are throwing out with no sourcing except your geniuses may come from the staff line passives which give you up to 85 on single target damage OR 85 on AOe damage depending on which staff is equipped on any given tick.

now, simple non-genius folks like me know that an effective DPS includes a variety of effects damaging the target all at once - some aoe, some direct, some dot, some immediate.

And so a bonus of up to 8% with one type of attacks wont equate to "at least 8%" when you talk DPS...

Second, looking at sorc, one of the primary sorc combo DPS attacks - velicurse - just got wiped.

Third - EOTS/ER just got 5% reduction.

Forth - for a sorc, overload took a nominal reduction in its lifespan which directly effects DPS outside of say 6s combats.

Fifth - the actual 8% increase comes at a cost of actually taking longer for heavy attacks which will impact dps for some builds which use heavies. So even that 8% might not live up to its own 8% for staff heavy attacks.

So, not a genius and didnt even stay at a holiday inn express last night but unless you can somehow establish the foundation for your "genius" 8% DPS claim, gonna lump that in with the "useless destru ulti" and "2h ulti way overpowered" class of pre-playtest claims.

Izaki

Bottom line is... RIP stamina builds. You shined for 2 patches and remained somewhat viable in 1T, before you became extinct again. xD

Last time I checked balancing didn't mean nerfing something into uselessness while buffing something else to OP levels... Oh well.

Autolycus

IzakiBrotheSs wrote: »

Bottom line is... RIP stamina builds. You shined for 2 patches and remained somewhat viable in 1T, before you became extinct again. xD

Last time I checked balancing didn't mean nerfing something into uselessness while buffing something else to OP levels... Oh well.

This is an overreaction. There is a very big difference between reality and what you're saying here.

Nerfed? Yes. Useless? Not even. We're seeing dps losses of a few thousand (which is quite significant), but this is nowhere near the point of being useless. The training dummy parses we've done so far are falling between 30-35k so far, with only self-buffs (not even Fracture), and that is simply not useless.

I don't like the nerfs either, but this post was too misleading to ignore. Perhaps there is a better approach towards balancing than what they chose to do, but stam builds didn't drop from 40k to 10k; it's not that extreme. On a related note, the magicka parses we've done so far are have been comparable. I'd have sooner buffed magicka instead of nerfing stamina personally, but what I've seen so far does evidence a more balanced spectrum.

Foxic

I'm adressing the "all pve dps got lowered" crowd. Has anyone saying that actually done any damage testing? Magicka sorc, magicka dk, and magicka nb are all outperforming their live dps.



This was while testing scalding rune which is still garbage BTW.

At least 3/4 of the magicka classes are capable of breaking 50K single target now. IDK if Templar can now

Foxic

f047ys3v3n wrote: »

susmitds wrote: »

Now, magicka DPS got major buffs with the new destro passives and respective class buffs. Magicka DPS got a direct 8% buff to both single target and AoE DPS.
@ZOS_RichLambert , @Wrobel , @ZOS_Finn

Think about this more closely before you get pissed or excited. Destro has 8% to single, Shock 8% to AOE. How are you actually going to get that. Most of your DOT's on a boss are technically AOE's you probably get nothing from your flame staff on these. Even your spamable, force pulse is an AOE. Maybe nothing for that either. How about on that shock staff for single target to get the benefit for your DOT's? Your now giving up your burning damage and you can't weave heavy attacks so you have to go with light attacks but I don't think they count as an AOE so no buff to them and going all light attack between skills speeds the rotation a little increasing magica use at that same time as sustain has been nerfed. Also, that shock staff just lost it's tripple proc on infal and vMA so not so shiny now anyway.

All I am saying is look carefully, these passives will probably not help most of us much and we will probably overall see a huge dps loss instead of gain on the magic side even DK's who I think were hit the least.

mNB - Honestly dead. It was holding on because funnel was so cheap and it could get away with no resource concerns. That one change would do away with it but it also looks like maybe relentless is screwed up too to add to that.

mSorc- Takes a hit on the really awesome Llambris set nerf as well as on the change to curse. Also, overload will likely not be a thing in vMA anymore. I still expect it to be the highest ranged dps though ranged dps will continue to fall relative to melee making the game as a whole suck more.

mDK- So standard isn't quite as good (Still awesome though) and you can't heal with dragon blood (you already can't) the biggest hit will be the grothdar thing. mDK will still be the highest magica dps.

mTemp - Will still have the best execute though it will not be as good. Shards now suck in pvp and no longer align with any of the other templar DOT timings (do you devs even play this game).

Overall first we should say that the melee complaints of stam users for DOT timings and mechanics apply equally to magica melee and really all high magica dps is that. Second we should say that all those high numbers that magica users get are because their DOT's cleave. In single target terms they are no where near stam now and will be further after this patch. I don't know where raid dps will go after the patch. Lots of folks already cheat engine the build they want to play to get the numbers of higher dps builds they don't want to play giving a very different impression to ZOS than reality. Perhaps they just turn up the numbers more and you all will think sorcs ranged to melee stam dk numbers.

I do know we are all taking a big dps nerf in this patch though. That is for darn sure. Kiss those vMoL hard modes good by and get ready for some pretty arduous vMA completes if you had gotten used to smooth runs especially on mNB which is dead or mSorc as there will be no overload easy mode. Or, just turn the cheat engine up a bit higher as I don't see anything saying they are cracking down on that.

Mag dk, magsorc and magnb are all parsing higher than on live. The destro passive more than make up for the loss of monster helm crit and now we have much better aoe caps and 39 more cp.

Also even on pure single target dps tests no melee build had beat my dps yet on my magsorc. If you want to see some actual testing that had been done message me.

hedna123b14_ESO

Autolycus wrote: »

IzakiBrotheSs wrote: »

Bottom line is... RIP stamina builds. You shined for 2 patches and remained somewhat viable in 1T, before you became extinct again. xD

Last time I checked balancing didn't mean nerfing something into uselessness while buffing something else to OP levels... Oh well.

This is an overreaction. There is a very big difference between reality and what you're saying here.

Nerfed? Yes. Useless? Not even. We're seeing dps losses of a few thousand (which is quite significant), but this is nowhere near the point of being useless. The training dummy parses we've done so far are falling between 30-35k so far, with only self-buffs (not even Fracture), and that is simply not useless.

I don't like the nerfs either, but this post was too misleading to ignore. Perhaps there is a better approach towards balancing than what they chose to do, but stam builds didn't drop from 40k to 10k; it's not that extreme. On a related note, the magicka parses we've done so far are have been comparable. I'd have sooner buffed magicka instead of nerfing stamina personally, but what I've seen so far does evidence a more balanced spectrum.

Issue is vurrently on PTS Magicka and Stam parses are on par +/- 2k, but Magicka has shielda and way better AoE...so whats the point of running stam?

Autolycus

hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »

Autolycus wrote: »

IzakiBrotheSs wrote: »

Bottom line is... RIP stamina builds. You shined for 2 patches and remained somewhat viable in 1T, before you became extinct again. xD

Last time I checked balancing didn't mean nerfing something into uselessness while buffing something else to OP levels... Oh well.

This is an overreaction. There is a very big difference between reality and what you're saying here.

Nerfed? Yes. Useless? Not even. We're seeing dps losses of a few thousand (which is quite significant), but this is nowhere near the point of being useless. The training dummy parses we've done so far are falling between 30-35k so far, with only self-buffs (not even Fracture), and that is simply not useless.

I don't like the nerfs either, but this post was too misleading to ignore. Perhaps there is a better approach towards balancing than what they chose to do, but stam builds didn't drop from 40k to 10k; it's not that extreme. On a related note, the magicka parses we've done so far are have been comparable. I'd have sooner buffed magicka instead of nerfing stamina personally, but what I've seen so far does evidence a more balanced spectrum.

Issue is vurrently on PTS Magicka and Stam parses are on par +/- 2k, but Magicka has shielda and way better AoE...so whats the point of running stam?

A valid point, and it certainly is relevant to this thread. That's not what I was addressing, however. My only point is that saying stam builds is useless right now is an exaggeration and misleading.

hedna123b14_ESO

Autolycus wrote: »

hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »

Autolycus wrote: »

IzakiBrotheSs wrote: »

Bottom line is... RIP stamina builds. You shined for 2 patches and remained somewhat viable in 1T, before you became extinct again. xD

Last time I checked balancing didn't mean nerfing something into uselessness while buffing something else to OP levels... Oh well.

This is an overreaction. There is a very big difference between reality and what you're saying here.

Nerfed? Yes. Useless? Not even. We're seeing dps losses of a few thousand (which is quite significant), but this is nowhere near the point of being useless. The training dummy parses we've done so far are falling between 30-35k so far, with only self-buffs (not even Fracture), and that is simply not useless.

I don't like the nerfs either, but this post was too misleading to ignore. Perhaps there is a better approach towards balancing than what they chose to do, but stam builds didn't drop from 40k to 10k; it's not that extreme. On a related note, the magicka parses we've done so far are have been comparable. I'd have sooner buffed magicka instead of nerfing stamina personally, but what I've seen so far does evidence a more balanced spectrum.

Issue is vurrently on PTS Magicka and Stam parses are on par +/- 2k, but Magicka has shielda and way better AoE...so whats the point of running stam?

A valid point, and it certainly is relevant to this thread. That's not what I was addressing, however. My only point is that saying stam builds is useless right now is an exaggeration and misleading.

If a magicka build can dish out the same single target and superior aoe AND has shields how is that statement still an exxageration? There is no use for a stam build in a trial if it has no benefit to be run over magicka...

Zagnut123Zagnut123

Autolycus wrote: »

hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »

Autolycus wrote: »

IzakiBrotheSs wrote: »

Bottom line is... RIP stamina builds. You shined for 2 patches and remained somewhat viable in 1T, before you became extinct again. xD

Last time I checked balancing didn't mean nerfing something into uselessness while buffing something else to OP levels... Oh well.

This is an overreaction. There is a very big difference between reality and what you're saying here.

Nerfed? Yes. Useless? Not even. We're seeing dps losses of a few thousand (which is quite significant), but this is nowhere near the point of being useless. The training dummy parses we've done so far are falling between 30-35k so far, with only self-buffs (not even Fracture), and that is simply not useless.

I don't like the nerfs either, but this post was too misleading to ignore. Perhaps there is a better approach towards balancing than what they chose to do, but stam builds didn't drop from 40k to 10k; it's not that extreme. On a related note, the magicka parses we've done so far are have been comparable. I'd have sooner buffed magicka instead of nerfing stamina personally, but what I've seen so far does evidence a more balanced spectrum.

Issue is vurrently on PTS Magicka and Stam parses are on par +/- 2k, but Magicka has shielda and way better AoE...so whats the point of running stam?

A valid point, and it certainly is relevant to this thread. That's not what I was addressing, however. My only point is that saying stam builds is useless right now is an exaggeration and misleading.

It's not useless unless you are into competitive end game PvE.

Izaki

Autolycus wrote: »

hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »

Autolycus wrote: »

IzakiBrotheSs wrote: »

Bottom line is... RIP stamina builds. You shined for 2 patches and remained somewhat viable in 1T, before you became extinct again. xD

Last time I checked balancing didn't mean nerfing something into uselessness while buffing something else to OP levels... Oh well.

This is an overreaction. There is a very big difference between reality and what you're saying here.

Nerfed? Yes. Useless? Not even. We're seeing dps losses of a few thousand (which is quite significant), but this is nowhere near the point of being useless. The training dummy parses we've done so far are falling between 30-35k so far, with only self-buffs (not even Fracture), and that is simply not useless.

I don't like the nerfs either, but this post was too misleading to ignore. Perhaps there is a better approach towards balancing than what they chose to do, but stam builds didn't drop from 40k to 10k; it's not that extreme. On a related note, the magicka parses we've done so far are have been comparable. I'd have sooner buffed magicka instead of nerfing stamina personally, but what I've seen so far does evidence a more balanced spectrum.

Issue is vurrently on PTS Magicka and Stam parses are on par +/- 2k, but Magicka has shielda and way better AoE...so whats the point of running stam?

A valid point, and it certainly is relevant to this thread. That's not what I was addressing, however. My only point is that saying stam builds is useless right now is an exaggeration and misleading.

If a magicka build can pull just as much DPS and have better survivability, why on earth would anyone use a stamina build? Stamina builds don't even do higher single target damage. So if magicka is just as good as stamina in single target and is vastly superior in AoE DPS, as well as having better survivability, why play stamina? Why accept a stamina build into a trial team? I'm already getting yelled at for trying to bring a stamina toon into vMOL, on live. Imagine what it would be like next patch! Stamina builds have simply nothing to offer. Not even a bigger burn on a target. So yes, stamina builds are more or less useless, as magicka can do everything stamina can, but also magicka can do more.

I was also being slightly sarcastic in my post, but you obviously didn't notice :P

overclocker303b14_ESO

Xecil

I came here for the all caps in the title. Stayed for the necro.

Toc de Malsvi

Oh look magicka is king, whadaya know...