Strife Nerf Petition

LegacyDM

For no rhyme or reason and with no DEV explanation strife is receiving a 38% cost increase. Sorcs voiced and the DEVs listened. DKs voiced with a thread titled "document to the Devs" and Wrobel responded. Now it's our turn. If you agree with the petition, please sign either option. If you don't agree, please respectfully move on, and voice your displeasure in the NB feedback thread. Not looking to get derailed with negative responses or discussion. The signature numbers will speak for themselves. Thank you in advance.

bowmanz607

Neither. Both were fine.

Mr_Nobody

Please. A spell which used to cost less than 1k magicka per cast surely needed some attention.

Gilvoth

petition's are against forum rules.

Lord-Otto

Even with lower cost, people preferred Force Pulse's increased damage in PvE. Especially with the old Elemental Drain. So upping the damage might make it more interesting in PvE.

I see no use for it in PvP, either way. Unreflectable Force/Crushing is too awesome. And I highly assume every Magblade is running fire or lightning for the ult. So no consideration for DW builds.

Rohamad_Ali

Too late . It's in the patch and we just have to live with it for now . I tested and did not see it was necessary to do but also did not really effect the class that much either . It was kind of a waste of dev time imo .

Anhedonie

Rohamad_Ali wrote: »

Too late . It's in the patch and we just have to live with it for now . I tested and did not see it was necessary to do but also did not really effect the class that much either . It was kind of a waste of dev time imo .

This. I wouldn't mind slight increase in damage though.

GilGalad

Here you go:

Wrobel wrote: »

Nightblade: Strife cost increase when nightblade dps is overall low, Crescent Sweep performance vs Incap (Incap cost increase)

• We increased the cost of Strife because it was so much lower than other similar abilities such as Laval Whip or Force Shock. Note - after the cost increase Strife, it is still much lower than these abilities. This change, along with the changes to Elemental Drain and Siphon Spirit were targeted at getting players to pay more attention to their resources.
• To help with magicka Nightblade dps, we increased the damage on Path of Darkness. For pvp this ability is harder to land on moving targets. To help with landing burst damage, we increased Impale range. This moves the ability’s range from 18 to 28, thus it gets a bonus +8 on top in Cyrodiil.
• Crescent Sweep and Incap have very similar costs, but one is AoE and the other is single target with added utility so it’s hard to compare them. For Incapacitate, we found that it was over performing and didn’t want to reduce the power of the ability. Adjusting the frequency at which the ability is used means you need to think a bit more strategically about when to use it.

Source: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/3762292#Comment_3762292

LegacyDM

dwemer_paleologist wrote: »

petition's are against forum rules.

Cool. I'll take my chances and let the mods shut it down.

Rohamad_Ali wrote: »

Too late . It's in the patch and we just have to live with it for now . I tested and did not see it was necessary to do but also did not really effect the class that much either . It was kind of a waste of dev time imo .

It's never too late! They can reverse if enough people voice their opinion.

GilGalad wrote: »

Here you go:

Wrobel wrote: »

Nightblade: Strife cost increase when nightblade dps is overall low, Crescent Sweep performance vs Incap (Incap cost increase)

• We increased the cost of Strife because it was so much lower than other similar abilities such as Laval Whip or Force Shock. Note - after the cost increase Strife, it is still much lower than these abilities. This change, along with the changes to Elemental Drain and Siphon Spirit were targeted at getting players to pay more attention to their resources.
• To help with magicka Nightblade dps, we increased the damage on Path of Darkness. For pvp this ability is harder to land on moving targets. To help with landing burst damage, we increased Impale range. This moves the ability’s range from 18 to 28, thus it gets a bonus +8 on top in Cyrodiil.
• Crescent Sweep and Incap have very similar costs, but one is AoE and the other is single target with added utility so it’s hard to compare them. For Incapacitate, we found that it was over performing and didn’t want to reduce the power of the ability. Adjusting the frequency at which the ability is used means you need to think a bit more strategically about when to use it.

Source: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/3762292#Comment_3762292

Thanks for this. I missed his response. Provided a response in NB PTS.

Ashamray

Neither. Strife is stil the cheapest. Fire staff has 8% damage bonus to it, and Minor Berserk stacks additively with this bonus.

CloneTrooper699

where's the leave it as is option

LegacyDM

CloneTrooper699 wrote: »

where's the leave it as is option

Its not a survey. It's a petition. Feedback noted.

thankyourat

after seeing wrobels notes I agree with him resource management should be harder, but my question is where is the nerf to other classes resource management. It's not like magblade is the only class with great resource management. Stam sorcs and stam dks are running around with minimum regen as well. So I'm all for the nerf as long as they plan to nerf dark deal and some other cheap abilities. I also have a hard time seeing how this strife is similar to whip, it seems like strife is similar to burning embers in terms of its a cheap class heal and a damage ability all in one. And whip would be closer to conceal weapon. So I can understand why this nerf happened but it's hard to support when you can throw some heavy armor on a stamsorc and just go crazy on all of cyrodiil. As for impale how did increasing the range increase my burst potential, it's basically still the same ability

Turelus

I used and abuses Strife like crazy, it was too good for what it was and needed a change.

I say leave as it is for a cycle and asses it after actual player use and not day 1 (2) knee-jerk reactions.

The_Protagonist

LegacyDM wrote: »

For no rhyme or reason and with no DEV explanation strife is receiving a 38% cost increase. Sorcs voiced and the DEVs listened. DKs voiced with a thread titled "document to the Devs" and Wrobel responded. Now it's our turn. If you agree with the petition, please sign either option. If you don't agree, please respectfully move on, and voice your displeasure in the NB feedback thread. Not looking to get derailed with negative responses or discussion. The signature numbers will speak for themselves. Thank you in advance.

LegacyDM wrote: »

For no rhyme or reason and with no DEV explanation strife is receiving a 38% cost increase. Sorcs voiced and the DEVs listened. DKs voiced with a thread titled "document to the Devs" and Wrobel responded. Now it's our turn. If you agree with the petition, please sign either option. If you don't agree, please respectfully move on, and voice your displeasure in the NB feedback thread. Not looking to get derailed with negative responses or discussion. The signature numbers will speak for themselves. Thank you in advance.

Looks like Wrobel's Sorc gets ganked pretty badly by mage blades, hence the nerf. And probably everyone else here who said no too.

Dracane

Zenimax declaired their reason behind this change yesterday, you can read it.
It's not getting reverted or anything.

It is still cheaper than other spells, it can now proc elemental drain, it doesn't only deal damage, it also heals.
It's fine as it is now.

DerpyShadowz

It still only costs 1100 Magicka for me. 600 less than Force Pulse. (And this is without worm reduction) Its not really anything to write home about in terms of a nerf. An ever so slight small inconvenience, but it doesnt value a Wrobel witch hunt just yet.

If there is anything to complain about its perhaps the abysmal healing it provides under Battle Spirit. But thats a different topic.

thankyourat

Dracane wrote: »

Zenimax declaired their reason behind this change yesterday, you can read it.
It's not getting reverted or anything.

It is still cheaper than other spells, it can now proc elemental drain, it doesn't only deal damage, it also heals.
It's fine as it is now.

It is fine now, but honestly it was fine before the nerf as well. I think that's most people's argument. The skill was working fine but it still got a nerf. Meanwhile magblade needs some sort of snare removal and immunity that's not mist form so they became a more viable option for open world PvP. Why not actually give the class something it needs instead of messing around with a skill that was just fine

Konstant_Tel_Necris

Well I like if they return back Funnel Health second ally heal and fix smart heal targeting.

t3hdubzy

Just dont use the skill if its that bad, they will eventually super buff it to be OP based on analytics

Joosef_Kivikilpi

GilGalad wrote: »

Here you go:

Wrobel wrote: »

Nightblade: Strife cost increase when nightblade dps is overall low, Crescent Sweep performance vs Incap (Incap cost increase)

• We increased the cost of Strife because it was so much lower than other similar abilities such as Laval Whip or Force Shock. Note - after the cost increase Strife, it is still much lower than these abilities. This change, along with the changes to Elemental Drain and Siphon Spirit were targeted at getting players to pay more attention to their resources.
• To help with magicka Nightblade dps, we increased the damage on Path of Darkness. For pvp this ability is harder to land on moving targets. To help with landing burst damage, we increased Impale range. This moves the ability’s range from 18 to 28, thus it gets a bonus +8 on top in Cyrodiil.
• Crescent Sweep and Incap have very similar costs, but one is AoE and the other is single target with added utility so it’s hard to compare them. For Incapacitate, we found that it was over performing and didn’t want to reduce the power of the ability. Adjusting the frequency at which the ability is used means you need to think a bit more strategically about when to use it.

Source: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/3762292#Comment_3762292

Because Poison Claw and Burning Embers (DK dot/spammable up close) isn't the cheapest skill at all... /s

Before they up the cost of Strife, they needed to think about DK ability cost for that as well. I know, their other skills are super expensive, but the cost of this is dirt.

the_man_of_steal

PLEASE @ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_JessicaFolsom @Wrobel @ZOS_RichLambert revert the cost increase back to normal. It is not constructive for Mag nightblades at all.

Thank you

Glory

Jesus what I would give to have a spammable skill that is that cheap (both pre and post-nerf).

Autolycus

Asking for those who disagree with either option to move on without voicing their opinion is synonymous to withholding material information. You cannot realistically expect to get a serious consideration from ZOS when you intend to silence those who agree with ZOS's decision. Be prepared to address the opposition, or don't start polls.

I have a substantial amount of experience in both pve and pvp on my NB, as tank, heals, and dps (and yes, all three roles in all forms of content). I happen to think that the cost increase to Strife is inconsequential. At first I thought it would make tanking more difficult, but it doesn't. I also thought it would make dueling and or open-world pvp more difficult, but it doesn't. If you're timing, weaving, and coupling your skills together properly (and relying more on watching your opponent than watching your own bar), sustain issues do not occur. Sustain issues from Strife only exist when the player in question is under substantial pressure (in which case said player needs to counter, and I could write for days on how to effectively counter as a magblade), are affected by poisons (which is the whole point of them), or are deliberately using their skills in an inefficient manner. It could be about gear too, but I'm just assuming that gear is not an issue since the backlash is coming from so many people; it stands to reason that most of these people have their builds worked out already.

The damage on Strife is respectable. The cost is appropriately balanced against its multiple benefits. I think both selections in this poll are a step in the opposite direction of balance. Of course, I recognize and respect that many disagree with me, but at least I don't tell them to keep their opinions to themselves.

NBrookus

Joosef_Kivikilpi wrote: »

GilGalad wrote: »

Here you go:

Wrobel wrote: »

Nightblade: Strife cost increase when nightblade dps is overall low, Crescent Sweep performance vs Incap (Incap cost increase)

• We increased the cost of Strife because it was so much lower than other similar abilities such as Laval Whip or Force Shock. Note - after the cost increase Strife, it is still much lower than these abilities. This change, along with the changes to Elemental Drain and Siphon Spirit were targeted at getting players to pay more attention to their resources.
• To help with magicka Nightblade dps, we increased the damage on Path of Darkness. For pvp this ability is harder to land on moving targets. To help with landing burst damage, we increased Impale range. This moves the ability’s range from 18 to 28, thus it gets a bonus +8 on top in Cyrodiil.
• Crescent Sweep and Incap have very similar costs, but one is AoE and the other is single target with added utility so it’s hard to compare them. For Incapacitate, we found that it was over performing and didn’t want to reduce the power of the ability. Adjusting the frequency at which the ability is used means you need to think a bit more strategically about when to use it.

Source: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/3762292#Comment_3762292

Because Poison Claw and Burning Embers (DK dot/spammable up close) isn't the cheapest skill at all... /s

Before they up the cost of Strife, they needed to think about DK ability cost for that as well. I know, their other skills are super expensive, but the cost of this is dirt.

Burning Embers is not a spammable; it's a tiny dot with a large delayed, situational heal. It costs 1161 magicka with 80 points in cost reduction, not counting any additional gear/enchant spell cost reductions. If a DK is spamming BE, they are doing it wrong.

bowmanz607

NBrookus wrote: »

Joosef_Kivikilpi wrote: »

GilGalad wrote: »

Here you go:

Wrobel wrote: »

Nightblade: Strife cost increase when nightblade dps is overall low, Crescent Sweep performance vs Incap (Incap cost increase)

• We increased the cost of Strife because it was so much lower than other similar abilities such as Laval Whip or Force Shock. Note - after the cost increase Strife, it is still much lower than these abilities. This change, along with the changes to Elemental Drain and Siphon Spirit were targeted at getting players to pay more attention to their resources.
• To help with magicka Nightblade dps, we increased the damage on Path of Darkness. For pvp this ability is harder to land on moving targets. To help with landing burst damage, we increased Impale range. This moves the ability’s range from 18 to 28, thus it gets a bonus +8 on top in Cyrodiil.
• Crescent Sweep and Incap have very similar costs, but one is AoE and the other is single target with added utility so it’s hard to compare them. For Incapacitate, we found that it was over performing and didn’t want to reduce the power of the ability. Adjusting the frequency at which the ability is used means you need to think a bit more strategically about when to use it.

Source: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/3762292#Comment_3762292

Because Poison Claw and Burning Embers (DK dot/spammable up close) isn't the cheapest skill at all... /s

Before they up the cost of Strife, they needed to think about DK ability cost for that as well. I know, their other skills are super expensive, but the cost of this is dirt.

Burning Embers is not a spammable; it's a tiny dot with a large delayed, situational heal. It costs 1161 magicka with 80 points in cost reduction, not counting any additional gear/enchant spell cost reductions. If a DK is spamming BE, they are doing it wrong.

i agree you cant coompare the two. they fundamentally function differently.

That said, i think cost should be increased on a lot of abilities in this game. anything under 1500 needs to be increased imo. Resource management is a joke in this game. BY nerfing resources into the ground you will force people to choose between sustain or damage etc. right now you can just throw on heavy and call it a day. however, the real culprit is cp. but we know cp is here to stay. They could decrease cp to give a max of 5% on each star rather than 16% or 25% etc. that would go a long way. But that wont happen either. Just increase the cost of anything below 1500 to 1500 and increase cost of others on a case by case basis.

ocfcourse with this comes leader board issues etc etc, but imo that can all be dealt with the new "chapter" new chapter new leaderboards and revamped game.

Joosef_Kivikilpi

They are two different skills, Strife and Burning Embers. Burning Embers IS a DOT... so I personally feel the cost should be more expensive than dirt since you DON'T spam it. Strife you are constantly casting. In summary, my point is the same - if Nightblade cheap skill is being nerfed to increase cost, so should other class cheap skills.

code65536

I love the magblade, I main a magblade, and I play multiple magblades. I was very worried about the strife cost when I first saw it in the PTS patch notes.

And then I tested it. It's really not that bad. Yes, my magicka pool did fall more in vMA stage 2 (one of the more resource-intensive rounds), but with more care put into maintaining SA uptime, I was just fine with resources.

That said, I wouldn't mind a bit of a buff to keep up with the other power creep in other classes, but taken by itself, the cost nerf is fine.