Turn Off Level Scaling

LadyNalcarya

Jakonian wrote: »

Milvan wrote: »

Really? I think it's a great step for the mmorpg industry because the level barriers and restrictions have been uplifted in order to keep friends and families together.

Yeah, I play solo. And in some sense of realistic world where if you get better at something. The rest of the world doesn't scale up around me.

It removes all sense of accomplishment for me and turns it into a grind.

Oh well.

4 out of 5 dentists recommend it. I'm that 5th dentist.

I actually quite hate it.

Have you played Oblivion and Skyrim? They also have scaling feature.
And why would you want to have fixed levels? Before this update you would outlevel the zones before you could finish all quests here (so if youre a completionist, you'd have to do lower level quests without getting any exp from mobs or appropriate rewards whatsoever) and there was no incentive to return to these zones, so basically almost every Cadwell's map was a ghost town. Nowadays you can return to quests you've missed on starter islands and still fight mobs of your level.
As for character progression, its still there. Champion gear sets and cps make you very powerful.

code65536

DRXHarbinger wrote: »

This is the problem for grinders...I used to just wear a level 10 armor set in maelstrom and that was it. Now I have to change gear entirely every 7 levels as it takes too friggin long to kill anything. Currently in purple gear you lose around 110 weapon damage per level over your gear...it's just tedious now having to go back and forth and waste scrolls / xp pot time. This was not a great idea.

But the rest of it was fine, bring people up to a level they can fight at..great...but then bring them down rapidly for progressing...bad.

Must be painful now for first timers with no friends in the game..random green gear ftw.

lolwut?

Maelstrom always scaled to your level. Sure, the rescaling didn't happen until you start the next run, but it's essentially no different now than what it used to be.

And people are forgetting all the downsides to the old system:

• Fight enemies too low, and you get zero loot and XP
• Fight enemies lower than you, but not too low, and you're earning less XP than what you could
• Fight enemies too high for you, and over half your attacks will miss
• And if you're a grinder, it meant having to relocate to a new spot every few levels

If you're grinding, the new system is much better. Gear outleveling has always been a problem: in the past, it either meant that you're fighting enemies at your level more slowly with outdated gear, or fighting lower-level enemies quickly but not getting as much XP as you could've gotten. If you're losing time to regearing, then that's an issue with poor planning; most level grinders have gear sets prepped and ready ahead of time so that they don't need to take a break to craft gear in the middle of it all.

STEVIL

Its funny on another thread the complaints were about how grinder v quester 1t how grinders lose out dont use drop sets dont get drop sets cuz they dont get enough of them outlevel drops too quick , where questers fokjs advancing slow get more from drops.

LadyNalcarya

STEVIL wrote: »

Its funny on another thread the complaints were about how grinder v quester 1t how grinders lose out dont use drop sets dont get drop sets cuz they dont get enough of them outlevel drops too quick , where questers fokjs advancing slow get more from drops.

Getting lvl 50 is so fast these days... Much faster than it used to be.
So why care either way if you can get a champion char in a couple of hours XD

Jakonian

We all play games for different reasons.

I like to Role Play and immerse myself in the game. I don't want to have to learn intricate mechanics or feel like a dumb ass because I didn't spec my character exactly like the game wants me to.

I feel a RPG should allow you to feel like you're impacting the environment and the world around you.

When the whole world grows up with you, it doesn't make the game feel that way.

Its not about XP and Gear for me. There are 3 parts to RPGs; Combat, Role Play and Problem Solving.

The combat is easy enough. Duck, dive, dodge, swipe. It's the role play and the problem solving that the Level Scaling breaks.

It robs me of complete immersion. And problem solving IS NOT figuring out the mechanics of the game. Problem solving refers to puzzles, traps, things of that nature; not the clunkiness of the game.

I don't mind walking around low level areas, enjoying the content. XP, gold, and gear doesn't really mean much to me. It's a means to an end, not the end itself.

The end being, enjoying a engaging story, exploring rich environments and feeling like I'm on an adventure.

This game makes playing it feel like a job. Not a game.

STEVIL

KoshkaMurka wrote: »

STEVIL wrote: »

Its funny on another thread the complaints were about how grinder v quester 1t how grinders lose out dont use drop sets dont get drop sets cuz they dont get enough of them outlevel drops too quick , where questers fokjs advancing slow get more from drops.

Getting lvl 50 is so fast these days... Much faster than it used to be.
So why care either way if you can get a champion char in a couple of hours XD

To me its about the skills and skill lines, much less than the level esp now. Levels may scale - but they dont give me the flexibility.

Jakonian

In response to everyone's comments, Thank you.

I can tell this community loves this game. And while I may be a red headed step child here, I don't think it makes me wrong.

All I'm asking for is the OPTION. I don't want to remove your fun from the game, just an option, a little radio button or a check box, so that I can too can enjoy the game how I like.

Jakonian

Why is gear and gold always the goal?

There should be more to it than the acquisition of stuff and things. This sounds more like a continuation of what I do IRL, work so I can earn money and buy things.

I don't want that to be my main focus in recreation either. Play a game, that requires me to work and buy things. Not much of a game.

I want a game that engages my imagination. Where the size of your sword is a preference, not a requirement. Where the story is king, not the gear and equipment.

What a boring paradigm.

dsalter

Jakonian wrote: »

No Level Scaling
Level 1 vs Mob A = 5 buttons pushes

Level 5 vs Mob A = 3 button pushes

Level 10 vs Mob A = 1 button push

Level Scaling
Level 1 vs Mob A = 4 button pushes

Level 5 vs Mob A = 4 button pushes

Level 10 vs Mob A = 4 button pushes

you need to actually improve to go into insta mob gibbing mode.
going to lower areas to do it is just sad.

thedude33

Jakonian wrote: »

In response to everyone's comments, Thank you.

I can tell this community loves this game. And while I may be a red headed step child here, I don't think it makes me wrong.

All I'm asking for is the OPTION. I don't want to remove your fun from the game, just an option, a little radio button or a check box, so that I can too can enjoy the game how I like.

Doesn't make you wrong to have a different preference. Very unrealistic to think that ZOS would be able to give you that option. I can't even imagine it would be possible.

I bet restaurants love you.

-Can I take your order sir
- Yes, I would like the cheeseburger deluxe ...hold the cheese and beef and substitute it with chicken. Please shred the chicken and replace the bun with a wrap.

Jakonian

thedude33 wrote: »

Jakonian wrote: »

In response to everyone's comments, Thank you.

I can tell this community loves this game. And while I may be a red headed step child here, I don't think it makes me wrong.

All I'm asking for is the OPTION. I don't want to remove your fun from the game, just an option, a little radio button or a check box, so that I can too can enjoy the game how I like.

Doesn't make you wrong to have a different preference. Very unrealistic to think that ZOS would be able to give you that option. I can't even imagine it would be possible.

I bet restaurants love you.

-Can I take your order sir
- Yes, I would like the cheeseburger deluxe ...hold the cheese and beef and substitute it with chicken. Please shred the chicken and replace the bun with a wrap.

It's actually not too far off.

In this day in age with OnDemand Programming, smart phones and the like, it would seem that smart content creators, not just game developers, but all who create content for consumption by a demographic willing to pay for it, that OPTIONS, would be the way to go.

I don't like this flavor. Instead of going without completely, or compromising my tastes or preferences, give the option so you can draw in as many different paying demographics as possible.

Bethesda, although it may not be much, is losing my money here. And for every 1 person that complains about something, there are 7 others who feel the same way, who just don't say anything.

Jakonian

I would prefer restaurants to serve all items ala carte, that way I only order what I want and only pay for what I order.

I could customize my order the way I want or how I would make it at home. And I don't mind because I'm paying for it.

I don't go to the restaurant because I like everything on the menu, just the one thing, without the other things, just that one thing. Charge me for that and I'm happy.

Same here. I love the graphics, I love the story. I hate the combat and the level scaling. It sucks that I have to endure all this other crap, thus diluting and ruining the rest of the game that I enjoy.

Not any one game developer is going to get it ALL RIGHT ALL THE TIME, so instead of trying to, they could increase the chances that more people will find something to enjoy if they provide more options.

"I don't like to fast travel." Great, disable Wayshrine option
"I don't like Level Scaling." There's an option for that.
"I want to group with everyone I meet." Awesome, we have a check box you can check to enable that option.

They do it with the Crown Store. Why not with other settings of how the game can be played.

Bryanonymous

I'm sure people have pointed this out, but the scaling stops at cp160, so after that the game gets easier and you will feel that same achievement you speak of. If the problem is the opposite... then play without armor.

Jakonian

Bryanonymous wrote: »

I'm sure people have pointed this out, but the scaling stops at cp160, so after that the game gets easier and you will feel that same achievement you speak of. If the problem is the opposite... then play without armor.

Yeah... I hear ya.

I really do appreciate you and everyone else offering suggestions.

The game is reinstalling. Going to try it with the suggestions the thread has generated.

Still, can't stress it enough. options, Options, OPTIONS.

I understand that not everyone wants to play the game how I want. But it really sucks when the rest of the community doesn't have the same open mindedness. Like I'm some heretic for not wanting what those players want and for asking for something different. "Play it like we do, or you suck!" Great, thanks guys!

STEVIL

Jakonian wrote: »

Bryanonymous wrote: »

I'm sure people have pointed this out, but the scaling stops at cp160, so after that the game gets easier and you will feel that same achievement you speak of. If the problem is the opposite... then play without armor.

Yeah... I hear ya.

I really do appreciate you and everyone else offering suggestions.

The game is reinstalling. Going to try it with the suggestions the thread has generated.

Still, can't stress it enough. options, Options, OPTIONS.

I understand that not everyone wants to play the game how I want. But it really sucks when the rest of the community doesn't have the same open mindedness. Like I'm some heretic for not wanting what those players want and for asking for something different. "Play it like we do, or you suck!" Great, thanks guys!

Just a suggestion, but next time you want to wear "the open minded me vs narrow minded you its about option" victim cloak, maybe starting your thread with something like this:

Hey back after a while and while I was gone the game has sited to different playstyle...

Instead of this which you did:

So I recently came back to ESO after a long break and found the game completely broken. Level scaling

Then that victim cloak will fit more snuggly and kept you warmer at night.

Riejael

Stopnaggin wrote: »

Lol this, so start at cp then gain skillpoints for cp ranks. What difference would that be from before 1T? You would actually level slower in that scenario. As for the not wanting to grab a book or kill a boar, also kinda funny, mmorpg, stress the RPG part. Why does leveling have to be solo content? You can still quest with friends with the 1T update.

1-50 +1-160cp = 210 'levels'
1-160cp = 160

How is that slower? I'm not going to insult your intelligence by calling you stupid, naive, or ignorant with this one. I'm going call BS on what you said. Try that one again, but be honest this time.

Sorry to inform you but some people have a different opinion about a sense of accomplishment, which I don't recall seeing in this thread, the bigger complain was a sense of progression. You seem to want just an MMO without the rpg, and that is fine but that isn't this game.

Now you're BSIng me again. For the dozen players, who have to map turning to their keyboard, and had a steep learning curve using mouse to attack instead of clicking abilities, it MIGHT be an achievement. But overall, reading text, listening to dialogue, and running errands ad nauseam is NOT an accomplishment. As for levels not in the game making it not an RPG. Have you played any RPGs?

Like:

A Time of War
Shadowrun
White Wolf games (several of them, Vampire, Werewolf, Mage)
Mouseguard
and so forth

All use systems without character levels.

I also dont think the vast majority comment is correct either. I would actually argue that the competitive players are in the minority. How would any of us know what the majority of the player base is without actual numbers from ZOS. What i do see is alot more players in the open world, if that is the majority as you claim why aren't they in endgame content? I would further offer to take a look at the guild recruitment threads how many are looking for endgame players vs pvp vs casual.

Outside the 'newbie' areas, even in the 'second' or 'third' zones. You will see more CP level players than under. And I'd wager half of the under 50 can't display their CP yet. In addition I've ran some of the lower level dungeons (the ones with lower, under 20 requirements) and a little over half had CP showing.

There was ONE group last night in Banished Cells II that was all under 50 (including my new templar). There's absolutely no way these guys who were between 19-45 were 'new' to the game. That was the smoothest run of the place in a PUG I have ever seen (maybe partially because I was healing, but adds died fast.. like as soon as they spawned fast, implying experience). There was no way that was a group of new players.

New players exist, I run into one or two every other dungeon I run. But no where near as a majority as you claim. And you know the great thing about new players? They don't stay new. They become Vets like me. Well if you don't bore them to death they will play long enough to.

Then you go on some tangent about hardcores and casuals. Which are false terms by the way, ones contrived back in 2003 in order to segregate and insult other players much like racist terms. So I'd be careful how you throw those terms around. I'd educate you on how that is, but that's beyond the scope of this thread, feel free to make another one asking the difference. I might respond there.

starkerealm

Jakonian wrote: »

Then why do simple crafting items disappear.

That's like saying a billionaire can't eat at McDonald's because he's has too much money.

The game selects your crafting material based on your level, and your crafting level. Unless you're crafting for other characters, you should get stuff you can use. If you are crafting for other characters, equipment writs now pay out with random lower tier mats.

Digerati

Leveling, gearing, and getting good accounts for so much...

It's the difference between being merely useful at a world boss and being able to solo it.

It's the difference between being able to join in a dungeon run and being able to carry a group thru it.

It's the difference between being able to help out with the zerg in cyrodiil and being able to take 15 people out on your way down.

It's the difference between trying to figure out how to pull one mob from the first room of IC sewers and running in and clearing the room.

This is NOT a complaint anyone who's actually leveled has.

Stopnaggin

Riejael wrote: »

Stopnaggin wrote: »

Lol this, so start at cp then gain skillpoints for cp ranks. What difference would that be from before 1T? You would actually level slower in that scenario. As for the not wanting to grab a book or kill a boar, also kinda funny, mmorpg, stress the RPG part. Why does leveling have to be solo content? You can still quest with friends with the 1T update.

1-50 +1-160cp = 210 'levels'
1-160cp = 160

How is that slower? I'm not going to insult your intelligence by calling you stupid, naive, or ignorant with this one. I'm going call BS on what you said. Try that one again, but be honest this time.

Sorry to inform you but some people have a different opinion about a sense of accomplishment, which I don't recall seeing in this thread, the bigger complain was a sense of progression. You seem to want just an MMO without the rpg, and that is fine but that isn't this game.

Now you're BSIng me again. For the dozen players, who have to map turning to their keyboard, and had a steep learning curve using mouse to attack instead of clicking abilities, it MIGHT be an achievement. But overall, reading text, listening to dialogue, and running errands ad nauseam is NOT an accomplishment. As for levels not in the game making it not an RPG. Have you played any RPGs?

Like:

A Time of War
Shadowrun
White Wolf games (several of them, Vampire, Werewolf, Mage)
Mouseguard
and so forth

All use systems without character levels.

I also dont think the vast majority comment is correct either. I would actually argue that the competitive players are in the minority. How would any of us know what the majority of the player base is without actual numbers from ZOS. What i do see is alot more players in the open world, if that is the majority as you claim why aren't they in endgame content? I would further offer to take a look at the guild recruitment threads how many are looking for endgame players vs pvp vs casual.

Outside the 'newbie' areas, even in the 'second' or 'third' zones. You will see more CP level players than under. And I'd wager half of the under 50 can't display their CP yet. In addition I've ran some of the lower level dungeons (the ones with lower, under 20 requirements) and a little over half had CP showing.

There was ONE group last night in Banished Cells II that was all under 50 (including my new templar). There's absolutely no way these guys who were between 19-45 were 'new' to the game. That was the smoothest run of the place in a PUG I have ever seen (maybe partially because I was healing, but adds died fast.. like as soon as they spawned fast, implying experience). There was no way that was a group of new players.

New players exist, I run into one or two every other dungeon I run. But no where near as a majority as you claim. And you know the great thing about new players? They don't stay new. They become Vets like me. Well if you don't bore them to death they will play long enough to.

Then you go on some tangent about hardcores and casuals. Which are false terms by the way, ones contrived back in 2003 in order to segregate and insult other players much like racist terms. So I'd be careful how you throw those terms around. I'd educate you on how that is, but that's beyond the scope of this thread, feel free to make another one asking the difference. I might respond there.

Ok on the first part 1 through 160, where are you going to put the first first 50 Skill points that are in fact easier to obtain than cp ranks? Raise the cp ranks I suppose, but that would still take more time as cp rank was and still a progressive system, I believe, you can't throw a tangent if I'm wrong.

Second you offer no numbers of new players vs existing players, I don't have them neither to you. Just because you experience a pug that worked doesn't change the fact that new players are in game. So without numbers neither can claim truth, no matter how loud you decide to yell it.

Third and this is the important part. You accuse me of making some comments and like it to racism, yet after reading my post I find no derogatory terms, although on your comments I find the terms hardcore, newb and vet. So instead of warning someone about using those terms I would suggest you at least follow your own advice.

Finally I see no tangent in anything I posted, very calm in fact. Unlike the response from you.

mr_wazzabi

Jakonian wrote: »

Milvan wrote: »

Really? I think it's a great step for the mmorpg industry because the level barriers and restrictions have been uplifted in order to keep friends and families together.

Yeah, I play solo. And in some sense of realistic world where if you get better at something. The rest of the world doesn't scale up around me.

It removes all sense of accomplishment for me and turns it into a grind.

Oh well.

4 out of 5 dentists recommend it. I'm that 5th dentist.

I actually quite hate it.

Actually, you do get stronger when you level up your skills, gain skill points and eventually champion points. There's still progression, it's just that you can't one-shot bosses with light attacks through leveling if that's what you're after.

Cazic

The way scaling is setup in ESO is so that all mobs are max level, and your stats are scaled up. So, turning it off can't really be an optoon, because you'd then just always she outleveled by the mobs.

Scaling has opened up the game world so that everyone is free to explore every zone and beenfit from doing the content in said zone at any time. Before, there were a large portion of zones which were essentially empty.

Other things which were changed alongside scaling which benefit the whole system are that there are now no alliance restrictions (aside from PvP) and that 5pc item sets are distributed in certain zones (giving purpose to visiting a zone you may otherwise not).

These things all help immensely in uniting the player base. The pros here really do outweigh the cons.

Nymbil

I know this is an old post, but I didn't want to start a new one and get "this topic is already covered" from everyone. I figure either way I am going to get haters, so might as well post here and support the OP.

Jakonian, I am right with you. I hate the forced scaling. I hate it for every reason you have listed, and more.

I have been playing since beta, but stopped for over a year after they added the scaling, because it killed the game for me. I still try from time to time, but ultimately get frustrated and quit again.

I am a completionist and love to take my time and play through and explore areas. I do not care about gear or end game, or pvp. I want to experience the story and explore the world. I want to play at my pace and at the level/difficulty I want to.

I love to craft, and use to love that I could take my toons to whatever area they needed for mats. Now if I need lower level mats, I have to switch to a lower level toon to get them, which is annoying.

Now here is one thing no one ever considers, and for me is my biggest frustration. Not all gamers have above average ability. Not all gamers want to just power level through a game and get to max level, then go back and "do what they missed". Not all gamers have maximum use of their hands, nor the reflexes to always fight "at level". Some of us, like myself, have mobility issues. We need to be able to gain a level and try again when we can't beat something in an MMO. Auto scaling makes that impossible. I for one am sick of hearing about what the game is like at CP160. How am I suppose to get to max level, when I can't finish areas? I have toons stuck because I can't beat the main story instances on them, so being a completionist, I can't continue with them.

Devs never think of those of us that are completionists, and they never consider the physically disabled at all. They could have made auto scaling an option where if you have it turned off, you can't group. The game did not scale in the beginning, so therefore has the ability, and I for one would not mind if I couldn't group with it turned off, as I play solo anyway.

I know this is going to get huge backlash, about how I am wrong and playing the game wrong, and so forth, and frankly, I don't care. I paid for the game, I supported and promoted it (up until auto scaling) I pre-ordered the collectors edition with all the bells and whistles to support the game because I loved it in beta and up until scaling. I should be able to play the game how I want, but thanks to auto scaling, I can't. The game I loved in the beginning, has become a game I still would like to play, and still try from time to time, but that I do not recommend to anyone unless I know their gaming ability and style. Scaling ruined ESO as a game for all gamers, it made it a game for 1 certain type of gamer.

ZOS_Bill

This is an old topic from back in 2016, so being a necro we'll be closing it. You are welcome to start a new discussion on this topic to continue the commentary.