Turn Off Level Scaling

sumisu1

I like how it is now, but I miss soloing world bosses.

Pirhana7_ESO

Jakonian wrote: »

No Level Scaling
Level 1 vs Mob A = 5 buttons pushes

Level 5 vs Mob A = 3 button pushes

Level 10 vs Mob A = 1 button push

Level Scaling
Level 1 vs Mob A = 4 button pushes

Level 5 vs Mob A = 4 button pushes

Level 10 vs Mob A = 4 button pushes

The point of the level scaling to your level is so that you can do any zone, and any quest content at any level, you are not required to do the zones in order of level, you can go anywhere with any friend and have the PVE be a challenge to you. Think of being max level now and instead of only having 1 zone of stuff max level to fight, you can now do any zone with it being max level and giving you max level loot. This system also allows you to get loot of your exact level at that point in the game. no more getting low level stuff that you dont want to use.

As for a reason to keep leveling it is very much there but instead of chreatures becoming weaker to your level you just get stronger by increasing yourself
As you get skill points and unlock passives you become more more powerful. The same with better gear and set bonses.

So at level 10 you could fight stuff that is level 10 Then come back to that same area at level 20 and fight the same stuff that is now level 20 but you will be much more powerful than you were at level 10 and they will be much easier to fight even tho they are level 20 now.

Being level 10 and fighting level 10 things compared to being level 40 and fighting level 40 things is like night and day

Iselin

sumisu1 wrote: »

I like how it is now, but I miss soloing world bosses.

It can still be done. It's just not facerolling easy like it was before 1T.

attackjet

I don't like the leveling system now either.

No since of accomplishment.

Everything just feels bland.

This game is bland.

BruceLeeroy91

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Successful troll is successful

Digerati

This isn't a complaint anyone who has actually leveled has...

I could see how people would feel like this about the theory of level scaling...


If you actually do level up from 1-500, you would not feel this way...

Scaling doesn't work the way you think it works...

Scaling just makes it so all areas are accessible to all.

Different areas and different mobs and different encounters have different challenge levels. There is content that low levels just cannot do. You're just able to go places and participate in things.

RavenSworn

Hodicus wrote: »

I've actually definitely noticed myself getting stronger as I level up. I don't feel that OP at any point, but I'm definitely more powerful than I was at level 1.

exactly. I feel for those who don't see the progression. a level 1 with 3 abilities unlock is waaaaaaay different from a lvl 30 having both their weapon bars unlock with buffs better weapons and better gear accrued through the levelling process.

It's like...You put blinders on yourself and refuse to see the bigger picture. and once you are able to level a character to cp 160, all other characters you level to 50 will automatically be cp 160. how do you not like this system? it's not perfect but hey, character level is not just the only indication of progress.

DragonBound

I think people who played allot of older rpgs like myself enjoy the sense of progression more, one tamriel has its positives no doubt, but lets not pretend the negatives do not exist people, I have no idea why some of you are defending it to that point.

Riejael

attackjet wrote: »

I don't like the leveling system now either.

No since of accomplishment.

Everything just feels bland.

This game is bland.

No sense of accomplishment? You mean in the prior system getting 1-50 was an accomplishment? When I cam back to ESO a month ago. I looked at my Sorcerer which I had maxed out when I first played the game over a year and a half ago long before these changes.

My mount had less than 15% riding skill. That means I hit those Veteran Ranks in under 2 weeks of playing (cause I DO remember logging in that character each day to buy a rank when I was actively playing them).

There was no sense of accomplishment for leveling. The sense of accomplishment came from doing Veteran Dungeons and Trials, just like it is now. All they did was take away the restrictions of where you could go while leveling and scaled the dungeons and made them relevant for all levels.

I always see this in MMORPGs from people who claim to support levels. A sense of accomplishment. Its like leveling is a hard thing or something. Or somehow reaching max level is 'beating the game'. No.. frequently (hell I'll say ALL the time, as I've yet to see a MMORPG do this differently) when you reach max level, you've completed the extended tutorial. You've entered the beginning of endgame. The place where the majority of the playerbase and community measure and challenge one another at.

There's absolutely no reason to keep players locked in 'leveling content' for more than its absolutely necessary to learn the basics of the game, the basics of their class, and some semblance of their role. The reason for this is you split new players away from existing players. Which is bad. That's a good way to get a new player to more often than not, to quit your game. No one wants to level for a month or two alone trying to play catch up to play with others.

This is not a solo game. The amount of solo content we slug through should be minimal. Leveling is solo content. I know when I am a new player in a MMORPG my goal is to get into groups with players as soon as possible. Not collect 8 jewels, kill 10 boars, or pick up a book and run an errand ad nauseam. I want to job right into my chosen role, and start on collecting gear right away.

I even think they should remove levels and basically start us at 50 and earning CP right away. Set CP requirements for Vet Dungeons (a feature many of you want). Rescale the gear to reflect that change. And we earn skillpoints as normal (the ones from leveling are given every couple of CP earned to a point).

Doctordarkspawn

Honestly the scaling broke this game in so many ways that people dont wanna admit and the designers dont wanna admit. Remove it outright.

Dracindo

Though I hate it that my friend, who is a lv 13 DK, is able to kill my main account, lv 50 CP 60+ NB, with no problem, it's a really cool feature. Most MMO's I've played, I keep grinding to get stronger, just so I can PvP against and with others, without me getting killed first or proving little to no help because of my low stat numbers. And then someone informs you that you've spent your skillpoints wrong and you have to create a new character or pay real money to reset all points.

And that's what I like here: As a level 10 guy, I already feel useful (also thanks to those siege weapons) and, like said here before, I can join my friend with my main account. I did start anew with him, but that Sorc smurf is already 10 levels higher, I'll let him catch up ^.=.^

NewBlacksmurf

I think it may help to go read the One Tamriel path notes in detail.

This is better for everyone. If you've played TES games prior to Skyrim, those games have the world level up as you level up.

It's the same thing going on here as much as a server game allows it. So if you're a solo player, now all zones and quests are available 100% regardless of order.

This creates a much deeper solo experience for you and crafting, etc moves as you move based on passives and your character level

Enslaved

Jakonian wrote: »

I think an option to turn it off, would be appropriate, so that everyone can enjoy the game how they want.

If it's going to stay blanketed like this, I might just have to go some place else.

I understand how you feel,

Jakonian wrote: »

No Level Scaling
Level 1 vs Mob A = 5 buttons pushes

Level 5 vs Mob A = 3 button pushes

Level 10 vs Mob A = 1 button push

Level Scaling
Level 1 vs Mob A = 4 button pushes

Level 5 vs Mob A = 4 button pushes

Level 10 vs Mob A = 4 button pushes

Level 50 CP 500+ vs hm Molag Kena = 426 button pushes

redspecter23

I find the scaling to be a non issue once you hit cap. I spend about 4 hours leveling a new character then the rest of the time at level cap so scaling accounts for such a small part of each character that I don't notice from my end. I guess new players or those that level often may be turned off by it. Honestly, if they just removed levels altogether, I probably wouldn't even notice.

Rev Rielle

The game's always been story and quest driven. It has never been a leveling/grinding sort of MMO: You never had to grind levels before you could complete content like you do in some other games. One Tamriel, has completely abolished any shadow of a doubt in this regard, but more importantly opened up the entire game world and enabled the freedom to enjoy the content with anyone; it's such a positive.

Dracindo

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

I think it may help to go read the One Tamriel path notes in detail.

This is better for everyone. If you've played TES games prior to Skyrim, those games have the world level up as you level up.

It's the same thing going on here as much as a server game allows it. So if you're a solo player, now all zones and quests are available 100% regardless of order.

This creates a much deeper solo experience for you and crafting, etc moves as you move based on passives and your character level

Which is really useful if at some point you don't care that the other brother of Strife is running loose.

NewBlacksmurf

Dracindo wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

I think it may help to go read the One Tamriel path notes in detail.

This is better for everyone. If you've played TES games prior to Skyrim, those games have the world level up as you level up.

It's the same thing going on here as much as a server game allows it. So if you're a solo player, now all zones and quests are available 100% regardless of order.

This creates a much deeper solo experience for you and crafting, etc moves as you move based on passives and your character level

Which is really useful if at some point you don't care that the other brother of Strife is running loose.

Your comment makes no sense. The op isn't asking to not be on an MMO server.

Cryptical

They absolutely could put in a way to turn off scaling for yourself, without affecting anyone else.

The world is champ 160. Each character is scaled up to that, individually. So just have an option to turn off your own level boost, so that you are running around with the true state of your level.

You would likely get slaughtered while you are below level 35, because everything is still default champ 160, and fights at 40 would feel like titanic struggles that get easier as you arrive at the mob level. I remember fighting the level 34 flesh atronachs at hectahame when I was like level 17, every 4 out of 5 jabs would miss and the one that hit did absolutely crud damage, but it felt awesome to take the thing down.

So, turning off level scaling could be done without impacting other people.

NewBlacksmurf

Cryptical wrote: »

They absolutely could put in a way to turn off scaling for yourself, without affecting anyone else.

The world is champ 160. Each character is scaled up to that, individually. So just have an option to turn off your own level boost, so that you are running around with the true state of your level.

You would likely get slaughtered while you are below level 35, because everything is still default champ 160, and fights at 40 would feel like titanic struggles that get easier as you arrive at the mob level.

But, it could be done without impacting other people.

You literally wouldn't be able to do anything until you hit level 50 so it's pointless to offer the frustration of it.

That's my thoughts....I don't think ppl actually comprehend how much scaling is effecting your character and the NPCs

Cogo

Jakonian wrote: »

So I recently came back to ESO after a long break and found the game completely broken. Level scaling.

How do I turn this off? I can't seem to find the option in the Settings.

The game feels busted. There is no point to leveling anymore, since everything feels like it's the same difficulty. And I can't seem to find certain craftable items anymore. I've wandered around low-level and even the Starting areas to find materials, and they're not there.

Am I missing something, or is this how it is now, all the time, with no way to change it?

I agree completely. Level scaling to everything takes away so much of the game. It pretty much removes the interest to play alts.

They could keep level scaling to group instances only. And Cyro is fine too.

I love ESO since launch and always defended it. With Tamriel 1, was my first time feeling the patch ruined gameplay.
In face, I play Skyrim (the new 64bit version) now instead....because there you can mod so the world is NOT your damn level....

Cryptical

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Cryptical wrote: »

They absolutely could put in a way to turn off scaling for yourself, without affecting anyone else.

The world is champ 160. Each character is scaled up to that, individually. So just have an option to turn off your own level boost, so that you are running around with the true state of your level.

You would likely get slaughtered while you are below level 35, because everything is still default champ 160, and fights at 40 would feel like titanic struggles that get easier as you arrive at the mob level.

But, it could be done without impacting other people.

You literally wouldn't be able to do anything until you hit level 50 so it's pointless to offer the frustration of it.

That's my thoughts....I don't think ppl actually comprehend how much scaling is effecting your character and the NPCs

That's why I gave the example of me struggling with the flesh atro - to make it relatable, to make the numbers into a scenario.

Slaughtered below level 35, no matter what gear is worn. 'Pack a lunch' 30 minute long fights with a single mob that sloooooowly get shorter.

NewBlacksmurf

Cryptical wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Cryptical wrote: »

They absolutely could put in a way to turn off scaling for yourself, without affecting anyone else.

The world is champ 160. Each character is scaled up to that, individually. So just have an option to turn off your own level boost, so that you are running around with the true state of your level.

You would likely get slaughtered while you are below level 35, because everything is still default champ 160, and fights at 40 would feel like titanic struggles that get easier as you arrive at the mob level.

But, it could be done without impacting other people.

You literally wouldn't be able to do anything until you hit level 50 so it's pointless to offer the frustration of it.

That's my thoughts....I don't think ppl actually comprehend how much scaling is effecting your character and the NPCs

That's why I gave the example of me struggling with the flesh atro - to make it relatable, to make the numbers into a scenario.

Slaughtered below level 35, no matter what gear is worn. 'Pack a lunch' 30 minute long fights with a single mob that sloooooowly get shorter.

My point is...it wouldn't be a long fight. Most players would be 1-shot. Maybe a mudcrab would take 2-hits but it would make the game impossible.

Now in the flip side, if ppl read how scaling is done, they can revert it themselves to offset some of the scaling

Like wear white gear or no gear and no cp, food, enchants

Smitch_59

FriedEggSandwich wrote: »

Jakonian wrote: »

No Level Scaling
Level 1 vs Mob A = 5 buttons pushes

Level 5 vs Mob A = 3 button pushes

Level 10 vs Mob A = 1 button push

Level Scaling
Level 1 vs Mob A = 4 button pushes

Level 5 vs Mob A = 4 button pushes

Level 10 vs Mob A = 4 button pushes

This would be correct if you always had the most optimal gear on, but the way that gear drags you down if you out level it means that this isn't true. It's not feasible to upgrade all your gear every time you level up, so what happens is you get weaker and weaker until you upgrade your gear, and then you have a period of strength which diminishes every time you level up but don't upgrade your gear. I agree that perfect scaling would be boring, but it isn't perfect scaling; the feeling of getting stronger comes with acquiring new gear.

^This. I currently have a level 49 alt wearing level 40 crafted gear. She was doing great at lvl 40 but now she is struggling. Can't wait for her to reach lvl 50 so I can equip a CP160 set.

DRXHarbinger

Smitch_59 wrote: »

FriedEggSandwich wrote: »

Jakonian wrote: »

No Level Scaling
Level 1 vs Mob A = 5 buttons pushes

Level 5 vs Mob A = 3 button pushes

Level 10 vs Mob A = 1 button push

Level Scaling
Level 1 vs Mob A = 4 button pushes

Level 5 vs Mob A = 4 button pushes

Level 10 vs Mob A = 4 button pushes

This would be correct if you always had the most optimal gear on, but the way that gear drags you down if you out level it means that this isn't true. It's not feasible to upgrade all your gear every time you level up, so what happens is you get weaker and weaker until you upgrade your gear, and then you have a period of strength which diminishes every time you level up but don't upgrade your gear. I agree that perfect scaling would be boring, but it isn't perfect scaling; the feeling of getting stronger comes with acquiring new gear.

^This. I currently have a level 49 alt wearing level 40 crafted gear. She was doing great at lvl 40 but now she is struggling. Can't wait for her to reach lvl 50 so I can equip a CP160 set.

This is the problem for grinders...I used to just wear a level 10 armor set in maelstrom and that was it. Now I have to change gear entirely every 7 levels as it takes too friggin long to kill anything. Currently in purple gear you lose around 110 weapon damage per level over your gear...it's just tedious now having to go back and forth and waste scrolls / xp pot time. This was not a great idea.

But the rest of it was fine, bring people up to a level they can fight at..great...but then bring them down rapidly for progressing...bad.

Must be painful now for first timers with no friends in the game..random green gear ftw.

Stopnaggin

Riejael wrote: »

attackjet wrote: »

I don't like the leveling system now either.

No since of accomplishment.

Everything just feels bland.

This game is bland.

No sense of accomplishment? You mean in the prior system getting 1-50 was an accomplishment? When I cam back to ESO a month ago. I looked at my Sorcerer which I had maxed out when I first played the game over a year and a half ago long before these changes.

My mount had less than 15% riding skill. That means I hit those Veteran Ranks in under 2 weeks of playing (cause I DO remember logging in that character each day to buy a rank when I was actively playing them).

There was no sense of accomplishment for leveling. The sense of accomplishment came from doing Veteran Dungeons and Trials, just like it is now. All they did was take away the restrictions of where you could go while leveling and scaled the dungeons and made them relevant for all levels.

I always see this in MMORPGs from people who claim to support levels. A sense of accomplishment. Its like leveling is a hard thing or something. Or somehow reaching max level is 'beating the game'. No.. frequently (hell I'll say ALL the time, as I've yet to see a MMORPG do this differently) when you reach max level, you've completed the extended tutorial. You've entered the beginning of endgame. The place where the majority of the playerbase and community measure and challenge one another at.

There's absolutely no reason to keep players locked in 'leveling content' for more than its absolutely necessary to learn the basics of the game, the basics of their class, and some semblance of their role. The reason for this is you split new players away from existing players. Which is bad. That's a good way to get a new player to more often than not, to quit your game. No one wants to level for a month or two alone trying to play catch up to play with others.

This is not a solo game. The amount of solo content we slug through should be minimal. Leveling is solo content. I know when I am a new player in a MMORPG my goal is to get into groups with players as soon as possible. Not collect 8 jewels, kill 10 boars, or pick up a book and run an errand ad nauseam. I want to job right into my chosen role, and start on collecting gear right away.

I even think they should remove levels and basically start us at 50 and earning CP right away. Set CP requirements for Vet Dungeons (a feature many of you want). Rescale the gear to reflect that change. And we earn skillpoints as normal (the ones from leveling are given every couple of CP earned to a point).

Riejael wrote: »

attackjet wrote: »

I don't like the leveling system now either.

No since of accomplishment.

Everything just feels bland.

This game is bland.

No sense of accomplishment? You mean in the prior system getting 1-50 was an accomplishment? When I cam back to ESO a month ago. I looked at my Sorcerer which I had maxed out when I first played the game over a year and a half ago long before these changes.

My mount had less than 15% riding skill. That means I hit those Veteran Ranks in under 2 weeks of playing (cause I DO remember logging in that character each day to buy a rank when I was actively playing them).

There was no sense of accomplishment for leveling. The sense of accomplishment came from doing Veteran Dungeons and Trials, just like it is now. All they did was take away the restrictions of where you could go while leveling and scaled the dungeons and made them relevant for all levels.

I always see this in MMORPGs from people who claim to support levels. A sense of accomplishment. Its like leveling is a hard thing or something. Or somehow reaching max level is 'beating the game'. No.. frequently (hell I'll say ALL the time, as I've yet to see a MMORPG do this differently) when you reach max level, you've completed the extended tutorial. You've entered the beginning of endgame. The place where the majority of the playerbase and community measure and challenge one another at.

There's absolutely no reason to keep players locked in 'leveling content' for more than its absolutely necessary to learn the basics of the game, the basics of their class, and some semblance of their role. The reason for this is you split new players away from existing players. Which is bad. That's a good way to get a new player to more often than not, to quit your game. No one wants to level for a month or two alone trying to play catch up to play with others.

This is not a solo game. The amount of solo content we slug through should be minimal. Leveling is solo content. I know when I am a new player in a MMORPG my goal is to get into groups with players as soon as possible. Not collect 8 jewels, kill 10 boars, or pick up a book and run an errand ad nauseam. I want to job right into my chosen role, and start on collecting gear right away.

I even think they should remove levels and basically start us at 50 and earning CP right away. Set CP requirements for Vet Dungeons (a feature many of you want). Rescale the gear to reflect that change. And we earn skillpoints as normal (the ones from leveling are given every couple of CP earned to a point).

Lol this, so start at cp then gain skillpoints for cp ranks. What difference would that be from before 1T? You would actually level slower in that scenario. As for the not wanting to grab a book or kill a boar, also kinda funny, mmorpg, stress the RPG part. Why does leveling have to be solo content? You can still quest with friends with the 1T update.

Sorry to inform you but some people have a different opinion about a sense of accomplishment, which I don't recall seeing in this thread, the bigger complain was a sense of progression. You seem to want just an MMO without the rpg, and that is fine but that isn't this game.

I also dont think the vast majority comment is correct either. I would actually argue that the competitive players are in the minority. How would any of us know what the majority of the player base is without actual numbers from ZOS. What i do see is alot more players in the open world, if that is the majority as you claim why aren't they in endgame content? I would further offer to take a look at the guild recruitment threads how many are looking for endgame players vs pvp vs casual.

DeadlyPhoenix

Personally my main problem with One Tamriel has been lag. Too many people in the world now and I have fast internet. I know some people that have much much slower internet that the game is nearly unbearable for them now. If I'm lagging with great internet, I feel sorry for them. Would love to see a less populated world with different phases we could go to to get away from lag and so many people breaking my immersion!

Stopnaggin

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

Honestly the scaling broke this game in so many ways that people dont wanna admit and the designers dont wanna admit. Remove it outright.

I don't think it broke the game at all, it did remove some sense of progression. Note for people not paying attention a "sense of progression ". It has drawbacks for sure, but also has its merits, it opened the entire world for everyone, as you progress you are viable for any battle in the open world. After cp you become more gear and skill dependant, which hasn't really changed from pre 1T. Really most of the post 1T crowd aren't affected by the change because they weren't here for Vet ranks.

STEVIL

FriedEggSandwich wrote: »

Jakonian wrote: »

No Level Scaling
Level 1 vs Mob A = 5 buttons pushes

Level 5 vs Mob A = 3 button pushes

Level 10 vs Mob A = 1 button push

Level Scaling
Level 1 vs Mob A = 4 button pushes

Level 5 vs Mob A = 4 button pushes

Level 10 vs Mob A = 4 button pushes

This would be correct if you always had the most optimal gear on, but the way that gear drags you down if you out level it means that this isn't true. It's not feasible to upgrade all your gear every time you level up, so what happens is you get weaker and weaker until you upgrade your gear, and then you have a period of strength which diminishes every time you level up but don't upgrade your gear. I agree that perfect scaling would be boring, but it isn't perfect scaling; the feeling of getting stronger comes with acquiring new gear.

First at each level Inc you find higher level gear. So if the level of gear is prob it's by your choice.

Second, sorry but as my skill raises from rank 1 to 4, as I gain morphs, as I gain disorients, heals, buffs etc the fight against the SAME foe gets easier. Beating a healer/mage, archer/ranger and a hvy thug is a lot easier when I disorientation healer, gap stun the ranger before they summon and kill the ranger then the thug then the healer in turn never facing more than one aggressor at a time.

Sometimes it not about sense of dps power as much as effectivelly pitching a no hitter and seeing your health bar only wiggle.

But yes for those who took pride in impulse blast killing lvl 5 goblins in one shot - yeah thats gone - replaced with goblins that take 3 or 4 and gI've xp, gold and leveled drops.

NeillMcAttack

Before level scaling. Enemies weren't much tougher, there was just an increased miss chance on anything greater than 5 levels above your current. And anything over 5 levels below just melted. Without much variation in between.

How anyone can say that was a better system than current is so far beyond my understanding. Well, maybe it isn't. As far as I can guess it was simply an assumption of progress, an idea, nothing actually tangible.

That's my 2 cents!!

And trying to enjoy questing or boss farming with friends was brutal. In fact, it's a big reason why many of my original ESO friends left. Getting on the game and not being able to do anything together was total nonsense. Good riddance to the old system.

NewBlacksmurf

DRXHarbinger wrote: »

Smitch_59 wrote: »

FriedEggSandwich wrote: »

Jakonian wrote: »

No Level Scaling
Level 1 vs Mob A = 5 buttons pushes

Level 5 vs Mob A = 3 button pushes

Level 10 vs Mob A = 1 button push

Level Scaling
Level 1 vs Mob A = 4 button pushes

Level 5 vs Mob A = 4 button pushes

Level 10 vs Mob A = 4 button pushes

This would be correct if you always had the most optimal gear on, but the way that gear drags you down if you out level it means that this isn't true. It's not feasible to upgrade all your gear every time you level up, so what happens is you get weaker and weaker until you upgrade your gear, and then you have a period of strength which diminishes every time you level up but don't upgrade your gear. I agree that perfect scaling would be boring, but it isn't perfect scaling; the feeling of getting stronger comes with acquiring new gear.

^This. I currently have a level 49 alt wearing level 40 crafted gear. She was doing great at lvl 40 but now she is struggling. Can't wait for her to reach lvl 50 so I can equip a CP160 set.

This is the problem for grinders...I used to just wear a level 10 armor set in maelstrom and that was it. Now I have to change gear entirely every 7 levels as it takes too friggin long to kill anything. Currently in purple gear you lose around 110 weapon damage per level over your gear...it's just tedious now having to go back and forth and waste scrolls / xp pot time. This was not a great idea.

But the rest of it was fine, bring people up to a level they can fight at..great...but then bring them down rapidly for progressing...bad.

Must be painful now for first timers with no friends in the game..random green gear ftw.

If you're intent is to grind before or after this change still requires you to change gear every few levels. It's not a greater or lesser penalty.

Let's take into context....grinding isn't really playing the game so that should be problematic every 7 or so levels cause....of the purpose of your actions.

Let's be honest tho. This change helped people who prefer to grind unlike how it may impact someone playing the game via quests and other encounters.