Crafters getting the shaft

STEVIL

azoriangaming wrote: »

sadly yes i agree crafters are getting shafted but we can clearly see what their business model is bis gear will come with each dlc to sell copies of said dlc

As we all saw most recently when the free 1T released tons of new high end drop sets even for high end play.

???

Really, seriously, maybe the thread to push anti-zos with "bis dlc" is not the one about the massive influx of powerful sets from free most recent upgrade.

Baratan

Agree with OP. Everyone in my guild prefers dropped sets to any of the crafted sets.

thomas1970b16_ESO

Jewelcrafting would solve some of the problems.

teladoy

Why would anyone want a crafted set if you can have a proc set?

Crafted sets are only a few ones that are not bad for pvp or pve, but come on... only dropped sets are the best ones.

We can't even craft jewlery LOL

Hand_Bacon

Seriously though, the farmers are the real ones hurting. Before thieves guild they could sell a stack of VR16 mats for 100k+ and now its barely worth the time to run around aside from a chance for tempers.

LinearParadox

All they need to do to bring crafting back into favor is one single thing they've been religiously avoiding and no one knows why because it doesn't make any damn sense: MOTIF CHANGE.
Call it whatever you want; recrafting, redesign, glamour, magical polymorph... I don't care how you flavour-text it, let crafters change the motifs on drop sets!!! This is a basic feature in basically every MMO and something sorely needed in ESO, but once again ZoS has taken their vow of silence leading many of us to wonder why the **** they're silently stonewalling such a vital feature with no explanation, no time frame, no acknowledgement, nothing at all.
There dozens of motifs in the game now, probably close to a hundred, and people have invested time, effort, and now in some cases REAL MONEY to learn them, and now thanks to the dominance of costumes and drop-sets, don't even get to use them!!!
You'd think they'd add the damn feature now, even if only out of pure greed, now that they're selling motifs for cash, but no.
You'd think they'd add the damn feature now, even if only out of pure greed, now that numerous people have outright said they'd PAY to be able to change their motifs, but no.
So why the hell are they dragging their feet on something the community not only dearly wants, but is also a financial opportunity for Zo$? It doesn't make any sense.

STEVIL

LinearParadox wrote: »

All they need to do to bring crafting back into favor is one single thing they've been religiously avoiding and no one knows why because it doesn't make any damn sense: MOTIF CHANGE.
Call it whatever you want; recrafting, redesign, glamour, magical polymorph... I don't care how you flavour-text it, let crafters change the motifs on drop sets!!! This is a basic feature in basically every MMO and something sorely needed in ESO, but once again ZoS has taken their vow of silence leading many of us to wonder why the **** they're silently stonewalling such a vital feature with no explanation, no time frame, no acknowledgement, nothing at all.
There dozens of motifs in the game now, probably close to a hundred, and people have invested time, effort, and now in some cases REAL MONEY to learn them, and now thanks to the dominance of costumes and drop-sets, don't even get to use them!!!
You'd think they'd add the damn feature now, even if only out of pure greed, now that they're selling motifs for cash, but no.
You'd think they'd add the damn feature now, even if only out of pure greed, now that numerous people have outright said they'd PAY to be able to change their motifs, but no.
So why the hell are they dragging their feet on something the community not only dearly wants, but is also a financial opportunity for Zo$? It doesn't make any sense.

I am sorry but.. no.

Imo its not making sense to think all they need to do to fix underperforming crafting after 20ish skills and large time investment is to give them a cosmetic benefit that wont change one number on any recap sheet ever. The number of players who do care about result outnumbers those who dont, imx.

Its also imo bad move to see "all that is needed" is to give yet another way for crafting to be used to expand/encourage drop set use.

One of the few edges crafted sets have is controlling your look. Sure its cosmetic advsntage but its there and letting drops get re-imaged ends even that.

What's next? Threads to allow trait change for drops too? If so just change it from Crafting to Alterations and be honest about it.

Brrrofski

Why do people make out crafting is a big deal. You just check something every few days, ask someone if they have what you need and press a few buttons. Hardly work. Yes, had 9 traits everything for quite a while.

I use Hundings on my PvE stam sorc
TBS on my PvE magica nightblade DPS
Tavas on my PvE DK tank
Kagernacs on my PvE saptank
Kagernacs on my PvP saptank
Seducer on my PvP sorc
Kagernacs on my PvP magica templar
Eternal hunt on my PvP stamina NB

There's another few sets like nightmother's gaze and alchemist that get used as well.

Callous2208

Brrrofski wrote: »

Why do people make out crafting is a big deal. You just check something every few days, ask someone if they have what you need and press a few buttons. Hardly work. Yes, had 9 traits everything for quite a while.

I use Hundings on my PvE stam sorc
TBS on my PvE magica nightblade DPS
Tavas on my PvE DK tank
Kagernacs on my PvE saptank
Kagernacs on my PvP saptank
Seducer on my PvP sorc
Kagernacs on my PvP magica templar
Eternal hunt on my PvP stamina NB

There's another few sets like nightmother's gaze and alchemist that get used as well.

You should really think about getting some bis gear for those toons.

malchior

I suppose it levels to 50 by itself at the press of a button hey?

Brrrofski wrote: »

Why do people make out crafting is a big deal. You just check something every few days, ask someone if they have what you need and press a few buttons. Hardly work. Yes, had 9 traits everything for quite a while.

I use Hundings on my PvE stam sorc
TBS on my PvE magica nightblade DPS
Tavas on my PvE DK tank
Kagernacs on my PvE saptank
Kagernacs on my PvP saptank
Seducer on my PvP sorc
Kagernacs on my PvP magica templar
Eternal hunt on my PvP stamina NB

There's another few sets like nightmother's gaze and alchemist that get used as well.

idk

mr1sho wrote: »

What's the point being a 9 trait Crafter when every BIS sets are drop sets ? Spend all your time leveling your blacksmith etc just to be put to the side I feel like one those angry guys from South Park right now yelling THEY TOOK OUR JOBS

@mr1sho

Most players can benefit from crafted sets. It does not matter if BiS is drops if someone does not have drooped weapons to complete their set.

Without set bonus weapons a crafted set is best to complete many builds.

abigfishy

The answer is so simple.

Crafted sets should be all buffed so they are just a tiny bit better than dropped sets.
Dropped sets also drop jewelry which crafted sets don't have.

So if you want two full set bonuses you need one set of crafted and one set of dropped.

Kram8ion

I'm on my final researches now and what a long road it is. looking forward to finishing but whatever for ?
Am I going to craft any sets? No
Do I wear crafted sets? No

idk

Kram8ion wrote: »

I'm on my final researches now and what a long road it is. looking forward to finishing but whatever for ?
Am I going to craft any sets? No
Do I wear crafted sets? No

@Kram8ion

I have pulled 45k on a trial boss with a crafted set equipped. Works fine. Might have been able to get a little more otherwise.

Also, there are sets great for certain things like NMG and such. Tava's is heavily used in tanking. I think the point has been made.

isailandshootub17_ESO

I offer a simple suggestion to the problem at the forefront of this issue.

First, It seems to me that crafting in ESO is sort of a side-show for virtually every account. As you level up multiple characters, it only makes sense that you take some of your loot and deconstruct or research with at least one character. As such, many many many accounts have maxed out craftsmen, and crafted sets seem to be asked for primarily by new players.

With that being said, it isn't a small thing to spend all of the time to do all of the research, and to level up your character through deconstruction, regardless if several people do it or not. So the issue of 'why is crafting so common (I'm supposing) is another issue.

The issue at hand is to give crafters a viable reason to exist in the market commercially, because presently, there is very little market for crafters outside of crafting for friends and the random person in guild chat.

Solution Offered:
1. Permit crafters the ability to *improve* items bound to another player in some sort of trade window which permits payment during the improvement.
2. Once (and only once) #1 is implemented, make it such that dropped set items cannot reach their full potential until augmented/improved by a crafter

You could really do just about anything in order for the items to be improved. Maybe a 5% or more increase to item stats. It could even just be the improvement from purple to gold. Perhaps in the transaction screen the purchaser could even include the mats plus gold and whatever other items they'd like to trade.

Consideration for Crafting Centric Players
For those players who like crafting most of all in this game, or for those who at least really really love crafting (I am not one of them) perhaps their could be another tier of crafting added to the game to make crafting characters more craft-centric and perhaps even require a greater investment, as as to those who invest a great deal of time in crafting, they will be able to better improve items than those who just do the standard level 50/9 trait craftsmen. I don't know how to implement such a thing, although I think Ultima Online had it right through its crafting system. Even Skyrim seemed to have a much greater investment for crafting than does ESO.

I understand the OP. I personally don't like crafting much. I would rather pay for services rendered by a crafter than level up myself, except crafting is so easy in ESO that I craft, so I have no need to purchase goods from another.

Wifeaggro13

billp_ESO wrote: »

For crafting to be important in an MMO, the best items have to be crafted.

If you want to have a gear grind, then let bosses, etc, drop mats that crafters can use to make the best items. DO NOT DROP THE ITEMS DIRECTLY.

Sad how few MMO's get this right.

if you are going to make crafting the main part of itemzation. you better build a sand box game. its not good for theme parks , it devalues the pve content . truthfully its been the see saw problem of eso since launch. the best way would be to have crafters enhance what was dropped in game. then the two could work cohesively.

Emothic

I completely agree to this. I've spent about the last year and three months getting my armor/weapon crafting to 9 traits. At the end of next month I will have all 9 traits researched. But as it is now, even the 9 trait crafting sets are "useless" compared to the so many and much more powerful dropped sets.

Jimbullbee85

I prefer crafted sets because I can't be bothered to grind for anything that doesn't drop in a trial or dungeon. Its far too boring and the grinding sites are normally packed. These new sets have created an arms race for the "every man for themselves" mentality. They need to make more 9 trait sets that are much more appealing. A good healer and tank set would be nice.

Jimbullbee85

Craftable jewelary might solve the problem also.

AuldWolf

The only things really worth it any more are cooking and alchemy. My partner and I are quite angry about how -- with almost every patch -- they've done more and more to make crafting pointless. So we don't really do it much any more. When we hit the point where we feel we have to grind for gear, we're just going to both lose interest.

I keep saying this, ZOS: Forcing ANYTHING in a modern MMO is a death sentence. Forcing grouping, forcing grinding, forcing anything. And by doing what they are to crafting, they're forcing grinding on people.

So many MMOs make exactly the same mistakes. Then die. Over and over. The cycle keeps repeating. It's like the people making MMOs are all extremely shallow people with the collective attention span of a gnat, who do absolutely no market testing and don't bother to research precisely why so many other MMOs in the past decade have failed. Really, anyone could have told them that things like forced grouping, forced grinding, and clown crates would be their undoing...

Still, they've made their bed, now they get to lie in it. It'll be interesting to see what happens.

Brrrofski

Callous2208 wrote: »

Brrrofski wrote: »

Why do people make out crafting is a big deal. You just check something every few days, ask someone if they have what you need and press a few buttons. Hardly work. Yes, had 9 traits everything for quite a while.

I use Hundings on my PvE stam sorc
TBS on my PvE magica nightblade DPS
Tavas on my PvE DK tank
Kagernacs on my PvE saptank
Kagernacs on my PvP saptank
Seducer on my PvP sorc
Kagernacs on my PvP magica templar
Eternal hunt on my PvP stamina NB

There's another few sets like nightmother's gaze and alchemist that get used as well.

You should really think about getting some bis gear for those toons.

There is no BiS for PvP.

Tavas is BiS for a dk tank, hundings/vo/kragh is pretty damn good for a stam sorc DPS and my saptank has an amazing setup.

Brrrofski

malchior wrote: »

I suppose it levels to 50 by itself at the press of a button hey?

Brrrofski wrote: »

Why do people make out crafting is a big deal. You just check something every few days, ask someone if they have what you need and press a few buttons. Hardly work. Yes, had 9 traits everything for quite a while.

I use Hundings on my PvE stam sorc
TBS on my PvE magica nightblade DPS
Tavas on my PvE DK tank
Kagernacs on my PvE saptank
Kagernacs on my PvP saptank
Seducer on my PvP sorc
Kagernacs on my PvP magica templar
Eternal hunt on my PvP stamina NB

There's another few sets like nightmother's gaze and alchemist that get used as well.

Well, yeh lol. That's literally what you do.

You just grind/quest/do dungeons and then decon.

Everyone of my characters has it. Enchanting is the same, but it does take a lot longer.

Alchemy and provisioning are easy too. Get mats and it takes less than half an hour to go from 0 to 50.

Agalloch

1 T screwed crafters in all of the aspects : nodes, sets..everything...

I like 1 T idea of scaling...but the removal of nodes progression was a very bad move .

End game must have a mix of crafted and dropped sets..and everything will be fine.

Hammy01

The biggest reason crafters are getting the shaft is because we cannot craft jewelry and everyone wants to run around in a 5/5/2 or 5/5/1 or 5/4/2 set up and this is not possible with more than one crafted set.

Give us crafters jewelry crafting along with a few news sets to craft and we will be good!!

Artemiisia

the reason people dont need crafters, is that they can make it themselves, or get friends to do it.

I haven't paid for a crafting set ever, neither have my friends

jedtb16_ESO

Grymmoire wrote: »

jedtb16_ESO wrote: »

i used to be a crafter like you.... till i took a chisel to the elbow....

Don't you mean took a needle to the knee!?

i didn't notice that because of the arrow damage....

Sheezabeast

Artemiisia wrote: »

the reason people dont need crafters, is that they can make it themselves, or get friends to do it.

I haven't paid for a crafting set ever, neither have my friends

But you yourself just said /or/ get friends to do it. Who do you think your friends are? They're crafters! Crafters that at some point dumped a whole crap ton of skill points into crafting passives, bought/obtained motifs, and research pieces to research in order to be able to meet the requirements for the various stations in the game. So yes, people need crafters. Who makes the blue or purple food people use? Crafters. Who makes enchants you buy at guild traders? Crafters. Who refines raw materials into tannins and alloys for you to buy? Crafters. I'm so tired of crafters getting disrespected by people who don't have a clue what work goes into the work they have other people do for them.

Bontox

iI renewed my subscription after more than two years abscence from ESO. I love crafting and found to my dismay than trash mobs drops plenty of set items that are better than crafted gear and weapons.

Is this game on the path to become a gear-drop grinding game like Diablo 3 (*sigh*)?

I thoiught enchanter profession would be usefull but I find myself flooded with more glyphs than I can make use of.
Same with food and potions.

Maybe ZOS wish to remove crafting completely and have decided to do it in steps to make it loook like it's because the players want it that way.
Steps 1 makes i useless so only few crafer exists. In step 2 that is used to justify the removal of crafting from the game. Cynical? Well, in my opinion the destructiveness of the present crafting/set-drop system unfortunately invites the suspicion.

Artemiisia

Sheezabeast wrote: »

Artemiisia wrote: »

the reason people dont need crafters, is that they can make it themselves, or get friends to do it.

I haven't paid for a crafting set ever, neither have my friends

But you yourself just said /or/ get friends to do it. Who do you think your friends are? They're crafters! Crafters that at some point dumped a whole crap ton of skill points into crafting passives, bought/obtained motifs, and research pieces to research in order to be able to meet the requirements for the various stations in the game. So yes, people need crafters. Who makes the blue or purple food people use? Crafters. Who makes enchants you buy at guild traders? Crafters. Who refines raw materials into tannins and alloys for you to buy? Crafters. I'm so tired of crafters getting disrespected by people who don't have a clue what work goes into the work they have other people do for them.

I a master crafter in all and a 9 trait crafter.

I make everything myself, and make it for my friends.

BlackEar

I am a 9 trait crafter and I like that the best gear is from pve content. No way you should be able to craft bis gear, reserve that to progression, like a good MMOrpg. Being able to craft good gear is fine, but the best? No way. So what if I leveled my crafting, tough luck, but this is the better solution for the game which I put above my own.