So, i was a tank.. - Read if your NOT a tank -

f047ys3v3n

I feel your pain man. I healed some pugs that were at 7.5k each though vWGT hard mode. It took a while. I flat out refuse to tank for pugs.

The root of the problem is that bad players think that they can sort of melt into the background as a dps. How will they know I'm a bad? There are two of us dps's and it is not like everybody immediately dies for lack of heals or the boss runs around and face punches people if I don't do my job. Heck, maybe I get some 30k+ badass as the other dps and the group goes smoothly.

Badasses are far more likely to pug it on their dps toon so partially the lurking bad dps may be right. The badass himself figures that it is honestly rather easy to tank or heal pledges so they are likely to get at least semi functional players in the group doing that. Since the badass can do enough dps alone to pull even a real bad dps through, pugging is a lower risk for a badass dps than a heals or tank. So, I expect the lurking bad dps that we all curse is probably regularly rewarded for his antisocial behavior.

My thoughts:
1) If you are a reasonably good tank regularly doing pledges you need to whisper the badass dps's that you encounter from time to time and get in guilds with them. Belive me, as a badass dps I know. We are always looking to pull new players into guilds who prove to be good tanks. By good I basically mean, don't die, don't loose taunt, chain enemies in, and keep igneous weapons up so we get that buff without pots. Yea, I know, you have to be a dk for many of these things and non-dk tanks do have their place. That place is not really 4 man content though.

2) Zos should never have removed our ability to flat our read everybody's dps. People who do less than 15k should just be voted off the island and L2P. All letting people hide dps does is make us avoid pugging and that makes it that much harder for new players to get socially connected. I know you all thought you were being nice and maybe you grew up playing sports where nobody kept score and you liked it because you sucked. Newsflash, we kept score anyway, we don't want to play with people who suck because it is miserable, and we will eventually figure out who sucks. All you can really do is make it harder for newer players to prove they don't suck and that sucks for them.

Get connected and stop pugging man. It is very easy for the tank to start up a pledge group in any major guild. Frankly, it is what a lot of DPS's sit and wait for as they don't want to start a group and go searching for the always hard to find tank.

f047ys3v3n

Oh, and when I am dpsing in a pug group I rarely rez the other. Why would I? I can tell from my group dps meter that he is only doing 7k. He is better off just lying there in a pool of his own fluids while I get it done. Pug dps has to earn a rez by getting numbers that are actually helpful to the group. It is always sad if the healer tries to rez him and gets himself killed. Only happens once though. I whisper him before the next try to let him know to ignore the baggage on the ground.

Prof_Bawbag

How can anyone possibly L2P if every 'badass' like yourself just boots them off the island? Oh i get it, leave that *** to everyone else. I'm glad the people who initially dragged you through dungeons didn't have your 'badass' attitude otherwise you'd still be the very player you now look down on from your Ivory tower.

AzuraKin

Rastoide wrote: »

Hi. Please, do not answer if you didn't read the whole thing. Ty!

After achieving an "immortal" sortof build, i grew tired of dealing with eternal-runs becouse DPS were usually (seriosuly most of the time) LACKING DPS, so i decided to switch to a more of a sortof Tank/DPS build myself. I gave up my "immortality" to be able to do runs more swiftly, and for a moment there it went pretty good.
My dps were low, but that aoe did help the teams. Altho, most groups i ended up in were still lacking DPS.. so i went further on my build. I gave up some more defense, ran dual wield / 1h shield, and i boosted up my DPS - for a tank i believe that was quite a lot of dps -.
But eventually i find myself dealing with bosses that are quite challenging (mostly if you're not immortal) and it kinda made me feel like "now that i'm able to tank and dps succesfully", i was beggining to be a problem at the hard boss fights. Because the DPS were still LACKING, and i could only sustain for long as long as the healer was good enough too!
So NOW that i RELY on group, everything fails. I hit all the limitations of random pugs.
I was unable to finish Banished Cells II, two nights in a row, even when group had an amazing healer, and i was doing my job properly.
I know this kind of sounds contradictory for some of you, but its not. One does not need to be immortal to be a good tank. You just got to know what to do, when to block, when to dodge, where to go with the aggro, etc. If you do that but you rely on your healer to do it, thats good. So that was what i was doing, and i was also doing some DPS. BUT DPS's were so low that we just couldn't pull it of! (and it wasn't only at this boss, it happened several times .... on the other hand, the few times that i had 2 solid DPS in my group, everything went smooth!)

Althoug, most of this time, most of the DPS i've played with were all dealing-low-dmg. This has been going on for so long, since i've been tank since lvl15. But i've stressed out so much about this.. so many fails due to the lack of DPS.

OR EVEN DPS DUDES THAT DONT RESS YOUR FALLEN TEAMMATES BECAUSE (?) They've got to kill!? .. Every now and then healer ends up ressing and group wipes! I (as tank) ended up ressing and the group wiped! I also tried (sometimes) to manage all the agro so we all ended up near the dead guy, but it was "safe enough" to ress him (for our dps), but he didn't!! WTH man, we gotta wipe or take 2 hours to finish because you cant stop dealing (low) DMG??

Anyways... I was done with this stress.
So i switched myself to DPS, dual wield / destro staff. I dont even have DPS gear, i've got all my tank stuff, but i switched to DPS. Heavy gear, 27k hp, 12k mag (+4k with food) and 17k stam.
So i went as DPS and guess what. I did incredibly well. So much DMG done i couldn't believe it. I dont even have DPS gear. I found myself wondering: What's up, how can people do SO LOW DPS? "Its seriously this easy?" I could burn mobs really well and quite fast (not the best ofc (yet?)) and i obviously ressed my teammates when/if they died. And it was a decent propper smoothy swiftly cool propper run.

I was a tank, and switched to DPS and i do more DPS than some people that ARE DPS!?

GUYS PLEASE. IF YOU ARE A DPS PERSON, RESS YOUR TEAMMATES BECAUSE YOUR TANK AND HEALER GOT A MORE IMPORTANT JOB TO DO ( 95% OF THE TIMES ).
AND MOST IMPORTANTLY, IF YOU ARE A DPS PERSON, BUILD YOURSELF TO DEAL THE MOST DPS YOU CAN DEAL TO GO TO A DUNGEON AND DO YOUR JOB - WHICH IS (redundantly..) TO DEAL A BUNCH OF DMG -.

I've just proven myself its not hard. You just gotta do more than spam 1 skill. Spam 6 skills maybe.

outside of dlc group dungeons, most 4 mans can be completed with very low dps, take longer, but can be done. also while its not ideal for healer or tank to rez, knowing the fight can allow them to rez with little to no danger to people on team (i rez all the time on my healers, templar i rez them so fast boss dont hae time to kill people, and nb, i just put down so many hots that hots will keep peeps alive while i rez.

AzuraKin

Prof_Bawbag wrote: »

Smitch_59 wrote: »

I'm a terrible player, but at least I have the self-awareness to know that I'm a terrible player. I don't do group dungeons or trials, therefore I don't inflict my terribleness on others.

I can almost guarantee you that everyone on these forums started off as a bad player in vet dungeons. It's more about having the willingness to take advice onboard more than actual straight off the bat skill. First dungeon i went into, I was bad, but not so bad that I stood in red dots or cones nor completely ignore those health orbs some enemies seem to love. Get the basics right and the rest soon follows.

Vaoh wrote: »

IrishGirlGamer wrote: »

First, thanks for posting one of the known problems with DPS, although I'll be the first to admit that at one point, I was probably that low DPS person.

Second, thanks to @SolarCat02 for pointing out a known issue: that questing in the game doesn't prepare a player for the roles they will need to play (and honestly, it's not just DPS) in a dungeon run.

So what happens? You level up, you get to the endgame, and you get invited to run a dungeon (or maybe you decide to start running dungeons). Then the truth hits you. This happened to me:

Back in the old V-level system, on the day I reached V-level 1, I was invited to run a vet dungeon with a number of higher leveled players. I explained I'd never ran dungeons before but one of the guys, from my guild, was like, "C'mon, it'll be fun." Well, it was anything but fun.

The group leader was V16 and he held the crown (so the dungeon scaled to him, back at that time). I was supposed to be DPS but seriously?? I told them again - before we even started - that I wasn't good enough. They told me not to worry about it. It soon became clear that I was getting wiped every boss fight. Their solution? Give me a stack of soul gems. Seriously.

I kept telling them that I hadn't run the dungeon before, I hadn't run as a DPS, and that I didn't know what I was doing. Too bad, they kept getting more and more frustrated ... with me. What made the situation even worse (other than the dungeon was sixteen levels ABOVE mine), was that the leader wouldn't communicate with me at all ... until it was finally over (yes, we completed the dungeon) when he sent me a message: "Never again!"

Maybe he was justified. To be clear, this wasn't a group finder. This was me being pulled into group because they couldn't find enough players to run.

Honestly, I get that it's frustrating to run with someone who isn't as good as you. So maybe, rather than posting about how everyone needs to learn this skill, share your knowledge. Clearly, your a good DPS. Why not write a brief guide or give some tips. Think of the information you could have shared in the same 729 words that make up the original post.

Edit: And to be clear, I'm not being facetious. I only learned to DPS when a couple of very nice guys in my guild started helping me. Saying "Go fix you DPS" without offering any suggestions at all isn't very helpful.

Truth!

Every single one of those great DPS players (along with tanks/healers) you see around showing off their vMoL skins totally sucked at their roles at one point.

Teach dungeon newbies the way. Don't be the guy who shouts "L2P" and then continues to complain until everyone in your group disbands.

to both of you, most players i know are willing to teach people and work with them to get through dungeons, IF they are willing to learn. problem is most newbs are not willing to learn. in fact 99% of the time if you even start asking them about thier build to see what the issue is, they leave rather then try to get better.

AzuraKin

Rev Rielle wrote: »

Honestly, I think a lot of it has to do with the lack of trust that's going around these days. And this is in part to the fact that any class can play any role. Speaking from a healer point of view (and a tank sometimes), it can bee disappointing and frustrating when dps switch to a restoration staff and start firing off mutagen or rapid regeneration, or healing springs etc in the middle of battle. It's just a couple and utter waste of time: Let the healer healer. Same goes for dps taunting the adds etc; it just doesn't need to be done. Dps are there to damage, healing just makes the battle longer and harder.

If you've wiped a few times in a row and it's obvious it's the healing that's lacking (or the tanking, or whatever), then sure, talk in the group before the troubling battle about blurring some of the roles. But when nothing's going wrong and you see players over healing and over healing when they're there to do damage or tank, etc. It's just odd.

Another thing I've noticed is dps jumping around (literally jumping sometimes) and continually moving and kiting enemies about whilst in battle. This does nothing and only makes the battle harder. It's not PvP where targeting is affected by movement. Moving enemies about only a), makes it harder for you to get any heals as you're moving out of healing springs, combat prayer, ritual of retribution etc etc, and b) more importantly, moves enemies out of the ground targeted damage over time effects that are placed on the ground, effectively crippling your group's dps at times. This goes for the tank too: Don't move around.Other than to move out of 'red circles of death' and other times when it's clearly necessary, you should be standing still and more often than not, close together. The number of times I've seen a tank pull a boss away from the spot where a Shooting Star has just been dropped... I've noticed generally that the players that continually jump about like nutters don't seem to know (haven't take the time to learn) how to block and interrupt, or are PvPers. I've seen some very high ranked PvPers jump about and ruin things for the group.

There's either no trust in others or people just don't understand how to work together in group content these days (or it's a side effect of the 'do anything' mechanics of the game). It's just disappointing.

Sure the game's about playing as you want, but when you're in a group and part of group content, your actions affect others, so it's in everyone's best interest if you put in a little effort to try and be the a competent player for the role your character's signed up for. It's exceptionally easy to create character - any character - that is competent in the role you want for them.

there is a reason for moving in pve. active crowd control. by moving in a circle you can keep more of the mobs close together as they will be chasing you in that circle rather then spreading out.

UrQuan

Drummerx04 wrote: »

I'm getting tired of this "worthless dps won't rez" mentality. There are so many one shot/bleed/stun mechanics in dungeons and trials that sometimes a good dps will look at a situation and go, "If I try to rez RIGHT NOW I will die and we will be in an even worse situation, so I'm going to keep dpsing until a better opportunity comes about.

Take Lord Warden as an example. During his add phase, meteors begin to drop at much shorter intervals than in other parts of the fight. The healer and other dps are dead under 3 orbs and meteor hail bombardment and there are 2 shades left to kill.

Do I:

1. Eat absurd amounts of damage and stuns trying to rez them
2. Dps the remaining shades and hope the tank can survive while I push the fight into the next stage

Probably a solid 70% of the time I get killed in vet dungeons it's when trying to revive others. There are a lot of times when it's just not practical or even really possible to rez and it's time to accept that.

Those aren't the types of situations people are talking about when they talk about bad DPS who don't res. When mechanics dictate that it's a bad time to res, then it's a bad time for anyone to res and everyone surviving should wait until the res can be done relatively safely. When the danger of getting killed before the healer can heal you has passed, then the DPS should go and res.

When people talk about a bad DPS who doesn't go do the res, they're talking about situations where it can be done without getting killed.

disintegr8

We can tell stories of what we have seen done in PUG's but that is the price we have to pay. My tanks are tanks and might hit like a damp cloth but they are tanks and will be the last to die in PUG's.

I have seen healers running ahead starting mob fights, tanks change to werewolves as soon as they see a boss, tanks hiding behind rocks using bows on bosses, DPS doing single target bow light attacks on large mobs, etc.

I have 2 tanks, 4 dd's and a healer, so have seen it from all sides. When using PUG's I usually just go with the flow and get the job done with what we got unless someone is constantly causing us to wipe with their actions. If I let it get to me I need to stop using group finder.

TheAngelofDeath99

i aint readin all dat

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO

heng14rwb17_ESO wrote: »

Well to ensure a 99.9% sucess rate.
Go to each alliance home capital and speak in zone chat.

LF1M exp dps,max cp for daily vet pledge.
LF1M exp healer/tank,max cp for daily vet pledge.

really this is your best bet, just stop using the group finder, and if you have to have the reward of the random dailies, just get a group together before you use the group finder. it is really not that hard, people are always looking for tanks in the zone chat of each alliance home capital, so you you really would not have to wait long.

at this point, i think people are just using the group finder to get stories to complain on the forums.

UrQuan

AzuraKin wrote: »

Rev Rielle wrote: »

Honestly, I think a lot of it has to do with the lack of trust that's going around these days. And this is in part to the fact that any class can play any role. Speaking from a healer point of view (and a tank sometimes), it can bee disappointing and frustrating when dps switch to a restoration staff and start firing off mutagen or rapid regeneration, or healing springs etc in the middle of battle. It's just a couple and utter waste of time: Let the healer healer. Same goes for dps taunting the adds etc; it just doesn't need to be done. Dps are there to damage, healing just makes the battle longer and harder.

If you've wiped a few times in a row and it's obvious it's the healing that's lacking (or the tanking, or whatever), then sure, talk in the group before the troubling battle about blurring some of the roles. But when nothing's going wrong and you see players over healing and over healing when they're there to do damage or tank, etc. It's just odd.

Another thing I've noticed is dps jumping around (literally jumping sometimes) and continually moving and kiting enemies about whilst in battle. This does nothing and only makes the battle harder. It's not PvP where targeting is affected by movement. Moving enemies about only a), makes it harder for you to get any heals as you're moving out of healing springs, combat prayer, ritual of retribution etc etc, and b) more importantly, moves enemies out of the ground targeted damage over time effects that are placed on the ground, effectively crippling your group's dps at times. This goes for the tank too: Don't move around.Other than to move out of 'red circles of death' and other times when it's clearly necessary, you should be standing still and more often than not, close together. The number of times I've seen a tank pull a boss away from the spot where a Shooting Star has just been dropped... I've noticed generally that the players that continually jump about like nutters don't seem to know (haven't take the time to learn) how to block and interrupt, or are PvPers. I've seen some very high ranked PvPers jump about and ruin things for the group.

There's either no trust in others or people just don't understand how to work together in group content these days (or it's a side effect of the 'do anything' mechanics of the game). It's just disappointing.

Sure the game's about playing as you want, but when you're in a group and part of group content, your actions affect others, so it's in everyone's best interest if you put in a little effort to try and be the a competent player for the role your character's signed up for. It's exceptionally easy to create character - any character - that is competent in the role you want for them.

there is a reason for moving in pve. active crowd control. by moving in a circle you can keep more of the mobs close together as they will be chasing you in that circle rather then spreading out.

When I'm DPSing on a Templar using sweeps/jabs I tend to do this in a fashion so that I'm moving around a group of mobs in a circle to keep them in one spot (basically they get bunched up in the middle of the circle). I don't usually do that on other classes, though, because it's more of a sweeps/jabs thing than anything else.

Nyghthowler

I'm not posting this to be a troll, but why can't people be expected to carry enough soul gems to res themselves?!? We're not their mommies and daddies. Why should we have to burn our resources because they are incompetent...?

Waffennacht

Go pure dps, banished cells 1 and 2 can be soloed by a pure dps build

SolarCat02

Nyghthowler wrote: »

I'm not posting this to be a troll, but why can't people be expected to carry enough soul gems to res themselves?!? We're not their mommies and daddies. Why should we have to burn our resources because they are incompetent...?

We are not talking about people who don't have soul gems.

You cannot resurrect yourself during a boss fight in a dungeon. (Trash mobs, or fights where the boss is now dead but the adds remain, yes, you can, but not while fighting a boss. Single boss bar "adds" like trolls are an exception, as they are not considered dungeon bosses). To resurrect yourself either the boss needs to die, or everyone in your group needs to die.

So if someone dies during a boss fight, either someone needs to resurrect them (waiting for a moment when resurrecting will not put them in major danger), or the group needs to finish without them. It is up to the group which course is selected.

acw37162

PUG or group finder DPS is generally so terrible it is painful.

I can't stand running my tank through group finder on any dungeons that has the slightest hint of a challenge or any true one shot mechanic on the last boss.

I was stuck in Eden Hallow II this morning for two hours on my tank because the DPS was so bad.

I have a ton of AOE and damage and self healing built into my sorc tank and it was just brutally painful. Fights that should last five minutes lasting 15. Players dying and not rezing.

I soloed one boss after the whaler died and it took awhile, one of the DPS kept spamming chat with requests for rezs. This particular DPS died second and refused to Rez the other DPS. I replied with a group message, "When you can rez others I'll spend my soul gems on you until you can do that I'll keep my soul gems"

Nyghthowler

SolarCat02 wrote: »

Nyghthowler wrote: »

I'm not posting this to be a troll, but why can't people be expected to carry enough soul gems to res themselves?!? We're not their mommies and daddies. Why should we have to burn our resources because they are incompetent...?

We are not talking about people who don't have soul gems.

You cannot resurrect yourself during a boss fight in a dungeon. (Trash mobs, or fights where the boss is now dead but the adds remain, yes, you can, but not while fighting a boss. Single boss bar "adds" like trolls are an exception, as they are not considered dungeon bosses). To resurrect yourself either the boss needs to die, or everyone in your group needs to die.

So if someone dies during a boss fight, either someone needs to resurrect them (waiting for a moment when resurrecting will not put them in major danger), or the group needs to finish without them. It is up to the group which course is selected.

ok. I misunderstood what was being discussed. Ty for the breakdown.

IrishGirlGamer

UrQuan wrote: »

Rastoide wrote: »

GUYS PLEASE. IF YOU ARE A DPS PERSON, RESS YOUR TEAMMATES BECAUSE YOUR TANK AND HEALER GOT A MORE IMPORTANT JOB TO DO ( 95% OF THE TIMES ).

This part in particular is so true (as others in this thread have mentioned). The vast majority of the time a DPS should be the one to go and res a dead teammate, unless that's impossible for some reason (like the DPS is stuck in the cave in Fungal Grotto, or in a bubble in the air in Banished Cells, or dead, or whatever). If it's not possible for it to be a DPS, then most of the time it should be the tank, provided the tank can hold necessary aggro while grabbing the res without getting killed or interrupted.

IrishGirlGamer wrote: »

Jamini wrote: »

he group leader was V16 and he held the crown (so the dungeon scaled to him, back at that time). I was supposed to be DPS but seriously?? I told them again - before we even started - that I wasn't good enough. They told me not to worry about it. It soon became clear that I was getting wiped every boss fight. Their solution? Give me a stack of soul gems. Seriously.

If you don't feel like you can complete content, it's okay to leave. Even leaving guild members is fine.

I'm sorry you had such a bad experience.

The problem was they wanted to complete the dungeon (vWGT) and if I had bailed they would have been stuck (IIR).

Honestly, I haven't been back to vWGT since.

*facepalm*

So they took you, as a brand new VR1 who kept telling them you were inexperienced in dungeons, to a VR16-scaled vWGT? I'm betting it was pre-nerf too. What the hell did they think was going to happen? You were set up for failure... No wonder everyone had a bad time!

You are correct. It was pre-nerf. It was shortly after WGT dropped and it was still "the thing."

I remember at the last boss, I got wiped ... rezzed myself and just I came live .... immediately got wiped again ... and then as I rezzed a second time ... repeat.

I was never so happy to done with freaking dungeon. Never.

IrishGirlGamer

Drummerx04 wrote: »

I'm getting tired of this "worthless dps won't rez" mentality. There are so many one shot/bleed/stun mechanics in dungeons and trials that sometimes a good dps will look at a situation and go, "If I try to rez RIGHT NOW I will die and we will be in an even worse situation, so I'm going to keep dpsing until a better opportunity comes about.

Take Lord Warden as an example. During his add phase, meteors begin to drop at much shorter intervals than in other parts of the fight. The healer and other dps are dead under 3 orbs and meteor hail bombardment and there are 2 shades left to kill.

Do I:

1. Eat absurd amounts of damage and stuns trying to rez them
2. Dps the remaining shades and hope the tank can survive while I push the fight into the next stage

Probably a solid 70% of the time I get killed in vet dungeons it's when trying to revive others. There are a lot of times when it's just not practical or even really possible to rez and it's time to accept that.

While I agree with your point (with the scenario you described), I see it often in regular dungeons where the threat just isn't that high. The OP has a point and some players just don't realize that's their job as a DPS. They just don't know. You can try to tell them, but if they give attitude .... yeah.

There's one dungeon where the boss fight literally covers the ground with fire and you can't even see the bodies when players go down. Rezzing is impossible because, frankly, you can't see the body to rez it. But most of the time, if you have a good tank, you can rez quickly while the tank holds the boss.

But then this is why I think it's really helpful to use TS or some other voice program to run a dungeon. I was trained on TS, by two very good players. They taught me the DPS rez rule, the don't spam Steel Tornado rule (oh yeah), and the "Don't drop your ult just 'cause you can" rule - and many, many more. They were also very patient when I died - which was often. Becasue we were on TS, they could say: "Hey, Irish, do this," "Hey Irish, drop X now," or "Look out, Irish, you're being stupid ..."

PUGs generally don't use TS which leaves you with chat, which NO ONE is going to use in the middle of a boss fight. You can try to coach afterwards, but that's hard to do when the rest of the group is running as fast as they can to the next boss fight.

Shad0wfire99

Some people think the DPS role is a "brain-dead" role. If this were the case, 90% of the dps you run into while pugging wouldn't be terrible.

Synfaer

Eleusian wrote: »

I enjoy using group finder as a tank and some *** Qued in as a healer so he wouldn't have to Wait. Usually it's a res fest . Basically why I will not tank with pugs till my tank has vigor.

As a tank I don't mind this as long as they let me know so i can change a few things. Oh and you better be a decent DPS if you pull this ***

Woeler

Don't pug. Kappa.

Weesacs

You usually know within a few minutes of a trash mob pull whether the DPS is good or not. If its not, then just leave the group and start again.

Also, its ok teaching people the mechanics of a dungeon - I do it all the time (I even had to teach a 'pro' DPS guy last night how to do the 3 guardians on HM at the end of Volenfell) - however you honestly cant expect fellow players in a pug to teach other group members how to play their role - thats absurd.

There are plenty of guides online on how to get the best out of a class - Google is your friend. Read them. I only have 1 character - a templar tank - how am I supposed to 'teach' or help out a sorc or NB or DK how to DPS?

People need to be a bit more pro-active and learn how to do things themselves and stop expecting to be carried all the time.

GreasyDave

I am one of those dps's who is guilty! I hold my hand up! Hear me out why this is so.

First, I accept that it is the responsibility of the dps to be the first to rez. That is good tactics. I don't argue with that.

On the other hand, I don't believe the situation is as black and white as its being painted.

I am an average dps - nothing special but good enough to get the job done on most vet hm content.

First reason I fail to rez quickly enough-I can't find the dead dude. Seriously, where the hell did he die? I'm melee dps. I'm close up on the BOss, the ranged dps or healer goes down - they're not in screen -even if my camera viewing is wide - there are other dead bodies, where the hell is the dead guy. Sure, there's a small icon but on my UI the positioning of the icon is really weird and misleading and rarely right above the corpse. And if it is next to the corpse -there's probably another couple of bodies there two. This was a massive problem during the festival cos the skeleton corpses just showed up as lumps of earth - is that lump the dead healer or a dead ad? If ranged players are dodging aoes and die in some far corner, it's hard for me to find them.

Second reason - and this is my own problem , I accept but I do find it hard to monitor the health bars of my group constantly. I'm doing three things in a fight - watching the BOss for one shot telegraphs , dodging the red, trying to get the rotation tight and timely - ie. making sure when my dots come down I'm reapplying quickly. PLUS, I've got to keep glancing at the health bars. So, I'm sorry if behind me, out of sight the dps or healer goes down and I don't notice immediately. I was probably rolling out of an aoe, reapplying a dot and rerolling out of an aoe. Then I see the health bars gone dark and I start trying to locate him - and I'm wondering where the hell did he die, while I'm still dodging red.

I know better players than myself can do all of this easily. I'm only average. But if you group with other players you ought to accept that not all of them are elites - people make mistakes, we're all human. Grouping requires flexibility...to a degree (not to the extent that it causes a wipe).

Fortunately I'm in a guild with awesomely patient guild mates.The healers I group with seem to understand that I'm having difficulty finding bodies and if they've seen where the guy died, often rez him before I get there. At least I think they understand - maybe that's why I haven't been invited on a pledge for a while ? ;D

deevoh1991

I'm a healer with Aoe damage and in my experience Most DPS's are new players since they probably feel they just have to spam attacks and stuff, but it's kind of frustrating when a dps was just light shooting arrows the whole time and doing nothing else. Sometimes I get so fed up of healing forever, I just switch to lightning staff and start doing the staff storm ultimate trying to give cues like " CAN YOU ATTACK THIS MASSIVELY PLEASE"

Also sometimes the tank hides behind the DPS or whoever the leader is and waits for the leader to lure/pull. It's awkward.

Eh I still have a lot to learn being a good healer though. considering I have 4 peoples health bars to keep and eye on and my own life, and also avoid all kinds of game mechanic obstacles during boss fights if they suddenly target me... Jeez. I kept failing avoiding the lava lines that the lava queen spurts at you at the veteran crucible. I thank my groups patience ^_^!

But I really wish DPS would use more Ultimates during fights.

ku5h

Shad0wfire99 wrote: »

Some people think the DPS role is a "brain-dead" role. If this were the case, 90% of the dps you run into while pugging wouldn't be terrible.

This! Pulling good dps (70k AoE/35k ST) is by far hardest role in 4man groups. Thankfully i can do that easy so even if other DD is not so good, we can manage without problems. Second i would put healer, he also needs to be good, but tank imo is way easiest role, all you need to know are boss mechanics. Btw where do you find all those bad DDs, i pug everyday and maybe 1 in 10 is a bad DD (less then 20k dps), mostly i find bad healers who think they can dps and heal at the same time and end up being responsible for wipes.

Dubhliam

Am I the only one here thinking OP was terribly geared both as tank and as DD?

raj72616a

as tank, i'm doing single target DPS of ~7K in optimal situation (stationary boss, no mechanics no AOE to dodge). with some interesting bosses i can do as low as 2K dps.

with most dungeons, it can go smoothly if my damage is about 15~20% of group dps (ie, group dps about 30~40k)

but with a few vet dungeons, we simply can't deal with the boss when i'm seeing myself doing 20% group dps. i guess that means we need 70k+ group dps to finish them.

Mush55

Trouble is the players that need this info probably never come on the forums and are blissfully unaware of the need to change or improve, or only come here to post about why they got kicked from a pug group..

Valykc

Yeah I feel the same way. I run a high ulti regen DK tank build and sometimes the dps is miserable. I was thinking about spec'ing more towards DPS too but I like this build for trials too. Its a tough call, sometimes it's best to just leave a pickup another group later or join a guild but sometimes even guilds can go badly. I literally ran VCoH1 with one of my guilds and one of the DPS guys was running a MagSorc whose idea of DPS was throwing down mines at the boss every 5 seconds and light attacking in between. No Cfrags, no ultimates, just mines and light attacks and the sad thing was that he was at CP cap too so there's no excuse. So in a nutshell, I feel your pain!

EvilCroc

The first rule of ESO: blame DD's. It's their fault.