So, i was a tank.. - Read if your NOT a tank -

Rastoide

Hi. Please, do not answer if you didn't read the whole thing. Ty!

After achieving an "immortal" sortof build, i grew tired of dealing with eternal-runs becouse DPS were usually (seriosuly most of the time) LACKING DPS, so i decided to switch to a more of a sortof Tank/DPS build myself. I gave up my "immortality" to be able to do runs more swiftly, and for a moment there it went pretty good.
My dps were low, but that aoe did help the teams. Altho, most groups i ended up in were still lacking DPS.. so i went further on my build. I gave up some more defense, ran dual wield / 1h shield, and i boosted up my DPS - for a tank i believe that was quite a lot of dps -.
But eventually i find myself dealing with bosses that are quite challenging (mostly if you're not immortal) and it kinda made me feel like "now that i'm able to tank and dps succesfully", i was beggining to be a problem at the hard boss fights. Because the DPS were still LACKING, and i could only sustain for long as long as the healer was good enough too!
So NOW that i RELY on group, everything fails. I hit all the limitations of random pugs.
I was unable to finish Banished Cells II, two nights in a row, even when group had an amazing healer, and i was doing my job properly.
I know this kind of sounds contradictory for some of you, but its not. One does not need to be immortal to be a good tank. You just got to know what to do, when to block, when to dodge, where to go with the aggro, etc. If you do that but you rely on your healer to do it, thats good. So that was what i was doing, and i was also doing some DPS. BUT DPS's were so low that we just couldn't pull it of! (and it wasn't only at this boss, it happened several times .... on the other hand, the few times that i had 2 solid DPS in my group, everything went smooth!)

Althoug, most of this time, most of the DPS i've played with were all dealing-low-dmg. This has been going on for so long, since i've been tank since lvl15. But i've stressed out so much about this.. so many fails due to the lack of DPS.

OR EVEN DPS DUDES THAT DONT RESS YOUR FALLEN TEAMMATES BECAUSE (?) They've got to kill!? .. Every now and then healer ends up ressing and group wipes! I (as tank) ended up ressing and the group wiped! I also tried (sometimes) to manage all the agro so we all ended up near the dead guy, but it was "safe enough" to ress him (for our dps), but he didn't!! WTH man, we gotta wipe or take 2 hours to finish because you cant stop dealing (low) DMG??

Anyways... I was done with this stress.
So i switched myself to DPS, dual wield / destro staff. I dont even have DPS gear, i've got all my tank stuff, but i switched to DPS. Heavy gear, 27k hp, 12k mag (+4k with food) and 17k stam.
So i went as DPS and guess what. I did incredibly well. So much DMG done i couldn't believe it. I dont even have DPS gear. I found myself wondering: What's up, how can people do SO LOW DPS? "Its seriously this easy?" I could burn mobs really well and quite fast (not the best ofc (yet?)) and i obviously ressed my teammates when/if they died. And it was a decent propper smoothy swiftly cool propper run.

I was a tank, and switched to DPS and i do more DPS than some people that ARE DPS!?

GUYS PLEASE. IF YOU ARE A DPS PERSON, RESS YOUR TEAMMATES BECAUSE YOUR TANK AND HEALER GOT A MORE IMPORTANT JOB TO DO ( 95% OF THE TIMES ).
AND MOST IMPORTANTLY, IF YOU ARE A DPS PERSON, BUILD YOURSELF TO DEAL THE MOST DPS YOU CAN DEAL TO GO TO A DUNGEON AND DO YOUR JOB - WHICH IS (redundantly..) TO DEAL A BUNCH OF DMG -.

I've just proven myself its not hard. You just gotta do more than spam 1 skill. Spam 6 skills maybe.

newtinmpls

I am kind of surprised at the idea that anyone other than the DPS would try to rez.

If really really lucky, you would have a Templar as one of the DPS's, and the rez would be highly efficient.

vyndral13preub18_ESO

As a healer who has pretty much given Up to run dps, I feel your pain. It can be frustrating. But your story isn't one sided either. As a dps who has thrown on a taunt and did a fine job tanking since the tank was horrible. Those stories make us feel good and we pat ourselves on the back, but really all they prove is that there are bad players in all roles.

Lightninvash

I get your frustration as a tank needing more dps because they aren't high enough in dps. Though I agree with you on dps should rez people I find myself as a healer doing it more often and not wiping the squad. As a healer all I have to do is throw down some hot heals and combat prayer to help out a bit and I can rez in a few secs while the hot heals keep everyone alive.

I also deal damage with jabs on the mob groups and with my cleanse circle it does damage over time while enemies are in while healing my allies so normally will throw on some hot heals and combat prayer in between 1-2 jabs. also tend to use supernova ult on groups to burn them down quickly. for bosses I switch out to weakness to elements and crushing shock(or whatever it is) so I can sustain attacks when needed while keeping up heals reducing ele def and any magic users can have some more sustain by using ele damage on the boss.

When a tank does some dps and I being the healer do some dps even when the dps isn't perfect runs go pretty quick. though My healer is a sustain/tanky healer. I mean I have tank/healed the pinion boss in WGT because we didn't have a tank and I could take the hits and stay alive long enough with 2 moderate dps and 1 tanky dps

Mush55

Four words as to why most pugs are a misery to run with..............PLAY AS YOU WANT.........................

kylewwefan

Yes. I PUG a lot. See the worst of the worst. The full heavy armor, wrecking blow spam DPS, is the common bad. The S/B DD WTH?! Teleport strike spam...yeah....the best is the tool rocking siege shield, caltrops and light attacking bow.

I'm finding out though, even with substantial DPS, there are some mechanics that just cannot be ignored....talking to you planar inhibitor. Burned her so hard and fast, but then everything falls apart at 20%.

Totally feel your pain. I have a trials tank build. It's totally unnecessary for any vet dungeon, and the DPS is pitiful. It's difficult to find the sweet spot of survival and decent damage.

There is no shortage of terribad players in this game.

Silver_Strider

I love that about DPS. They see someone dead and they just run right over them. I especially love it when it's the healer that's dead and they complain they don't get heals.

I've given up on getting DPS that know to rez fallen allies and just tank in Heavy Kagrenac's so I can rez as quickly as I while limiting the amount of time I'm open to be interrupted/killed.

There are DPS that do rez but I'm just tired of the "My job is to kill only" mentality some DPS have. I get that in other MMOs it's usually the healers job to rez but darn if it isn't annoying in ESO

Rohaus

This is why I will only run if I KNOW I have a buddy or two that will run daily pledges with me. By that I mean buddies that I KNOW bring the heat...

It is amazing how much damage a tank can bring to the table if played correctly.

SolarCat02

My lowby tank has been more fortunate finding good dps who usually rez others, thankfully.

My main (healer), though, has been in all sorts of situations, and now in dungeons is built for full add control. Even the dps who do get decent numbers on the bosses frequently build so they can see the big single target numbers, and don't have a lot of AoE.

There are a few dps in our guild who have been asking for help with their numbers. Most have been steadily improving with tweaks as they get used to the last change (I learned long ago that making too many changes at once is more likely to cause frustration than success), but some are more interesting in talking than improving.

One in particular insisted on participating in a (normal) Bloodspawn test (healer/tank/dps to test) when he found out we were in the middle of doing one for someone else. His turn came, and we all wiped because Bloodspawn went full enrage and I can't heal through that for more than thirty seconds or so. I took my healer through Spindleclutch II solo (just me, nobody else supporting) and finished off Bloodspawn faster with only minor changes to my skills and no changes to my healer gear (and using only dropped magicka-only potions).

So I understand. Too many people are not ready for dungeons after the overworld questing.

SnubbS

Worst thing about being terrible at DPSing is that there are innumerable youtube videos showing how to do it.

"But muh play as I want"

IrishGirlGamer

First, thanks for posting one of the known problems with DPS, although I'll be the first to admit that at one point, I was probably that low DPS person.

Second, thanks to @SolarCat02 for pointing out a known issue: that questing in the game doesn't prepare a player for the roles they will need to play (and honestly, it's not just DPS) in a dungeon run.

So what happens? You level up, you get to the endgame, and you get invited to run a dungeon (or maybe you decide to start running dungeons). Then the truth hits you. This happened to me:

Back in the old V-level system, on the day I reached V-level 1, I was invited to run a vet dungeon with a number of higher leveled players. I explained I'd never ran dungeons before but one of the guys, from my guild, was like, "C'mon, it'll be fun." Well, it was anything but fun.

The group leader was V16 and he held the crown (so the dungeon scaled to him, back at that time). I was supposed to be DPS but seriously?? I told them again - before we even started - that I wasn't good enough. They told me not to worry about it. It soon became clear that I was getting wiped every boss fight. Their solution? Give me a stack of soul gems. Seriously.

I kept telling them that I hadn't run the dungeon before, I hadn't run as a DPS, and that I didn't know what I was doing. Too bad, they kept getting more and more frustrated ... with me. What made the situation even worse (other than the dungeon was sixteen levels ABOVE mine), was that the leader wouldn't communicate with me at all ... until it was finally over (yes, we completed the dungeon) when he sent me a message: "Never again!"

Maybe he was justified. To be clear, this wasn't a group finder. This was me being pulled into group because they couldn't find enough players to run.

Honestly, I get that it's frustrating to run with someone who isn't as good as you. So maybe, rather than posting about how everyone needs to learn this skill, share your knowledge. Clearly, your a good DPS. Why not write a brief guide or give some tips. Think of the information you could have shared in the same 729 words that make up the original post.

Edit: And to be clear, I'm not being facetious. I only learned to DPS when a couple of very nice guys in my guild started helping me. Saying "Go fix you DPS" without offering any suggestions at all isn't very helpful.

Grabmoore

The problem here is, that you are correct, but none of those people you are talking about do visit the forums ever!

You know what happened to me? We found no tank in a semi pug ( healer was on a new toon, but knew the dungeon), so I switched my dps gear for my old tank gear. As a magicka Templar, thats easy. We ran CoA II vet.

All went okish until we hit the ash Titan. The dps of the 2 randoms was really bad and as soon as the 2nd add spawned, people started to die. Let me say, that I had aggro all the time, but they seemed to die because of the fire rain alone.
So after a wipe I equipped my solo Lich/Julianos Set and soloed him from 50%...

Needless to say, it took forever, since I needed to kite the 2 adds and only could use dots and meteors. After the fight, we agreed it was pointless to move on.

Pugs are the real endgame if you ask me

It's still the best to queue as healer, because you ensure that group support is always there and healers, at least via Zone, tend to draw attention of some decent 561 guys.

Jamini

he group leader was V16 and he held the crown (so the dungeon scaled to him, back at that time). I was supposed to be DPS but seriously?? I told them again - before we even started - that I wasn't good enough. They told me not to worry about it. It soon became clear that I was getting wiped every boss fight. Their solution? Give me a stack of soul gems. Seriously.

If you don't feel like you can complete content, it's okay to leave. Even leaving guild members is fine.

I'm sorry you had such a bad experience.

Autolycus

To be completely fair, there are both things I agree and disagree with in the OP. Let's make this clear right out of the gate: vet dungeons do not require even the slightest hint at min/maxing or metagaming. People can literally do whatever they want in a vet dungeon and get through most of it without too many problems. Now that we've gotten that out of the way...

First, if you are wearing all heavy tank sets, you're not a dps. Switching skills up doesn't make you a dps. I assure you that being a good dps is equally, if not more so, challenging than tanking or healing, and this is coming from a tank (and to further illustrate credibility, I also heal and dps in the most challenging content, too). There's a great deal more to it than weapon/spell damage. Competitive dps rotations utilize every slot on both bars, multiple weapon types, make use of a plethora of buffs and debuffs to maximize damage potential, while simultaneously sacrificing every ounce of "spare" survivability by relying on player skill to avoid fatal mechanics. There is a very big difference between this and a tank who spams a direct-damage skill or two or a few DoTs. Perhaps more important still is that a good dps relies on their group a great deal.... it is the collective group effort that takes the cake in ESO.

That being said, most of this is really only relevant for harder content. Vet dungeons are designed to cater to non-competitive players. They are quite literally built for the casual community, and have comparatively low standards for survivability and damage output. More importantly, they are designed to accommodate a variety of playstyles, or in other words, designed to allow you to "play the way you want." This is what vet dungeons are about.

Now, something I can agree with is dps not rezzing their group. I would like to focus on the meaning of "group content" for a moment. By definition, this means: "We go in as a group, we work together as a group, and we win or lose as a group." To all dps out there, I pose a simple question: If another dps goes down and you choose to remain focused on your dps instead of rezzing, are you going to pull your own dps plus that of the dead player? What matters here is group dps, not individual dps. Yes, every person has a duty to perform their individual responsibility, but people tend to forget that this means being a good group member, not being the best individual player in the game. Unless you double your dps every time someone dies, then it is best for overall group dps to get that person back up ASAP.

IrishGirlGamer

Jamini wrote: »

he group leader was V16 and he held the crown (so the dungeon scaled to him, back at that time). I was supposed to be DPS but seriously?? I told them again - before we even started - that I wasn't good enough. They told me not to worry about it. It soon became clear that I was getting wiped every boss fight. Their solution? Give me a stack of soul gems. Seriously.

If you don't feel like you can complete content, it's okay to leave. Even leaving guild members is fine.

I'm sorry you had such a bad experience.

The problem was they wanted to complete the dungeon (vWGT) and if I had bailed they would have been stuck (IIR).

Honestly, I haven't been back to vWGT since.

Barbagor

newtinmpls wrote: »

I am kind of surprised at the idea that anyone other than the DPS would try to rez.

If really really lucky, you would have a Templar as one of the DPS's, and the rez would be highly efficient.

Lol as healer I am surprised too, as I have to res everything 95% of times XD

Khaos_Bane

I run in PUGs a lot, and that's why I play a healer when running group content. Being the healer gives you the most control over the outcome of a battle.

Izaki

I saw a DPS cloaking during a pledge run today... Do I really need to say more?

altemriel

Rastoide wrote: »

Hi. Please, do not answer if you didn't read the whole thing. Ty!

After achieving an "immortal" sortof build, i grew tired of dealing with eternal-runs becouse DPS were usually (seriosuly most of the time) LACKING DPS, so i decided to switch to a more of a sortof Tank/DPS build myself. I gave up my "immortality" to be able to do runs more swiftly, and for a moment there it went pretty good.
My dps were low, but that aoe did help the teams. Altho, most groups i ended up in were still lacking DPS.. so i went further on my build. I gave up some more defense, ran dual wield / 1h shield, and i boosted up my DPS - for a tank i believe that was quite a lot of dps -.
But eventually i find myself dealing with bosses that are quite challenging (mostly if you're not immortal) and it kinda made me feel like "now that i'm able to tank and dps succesfully", i was beggining to be a problem at the hard boss fights. Because the DPS were still LACKING, and i could only sustain for long as long as the healer was good enough too!
So NOW that i RELY on group, everything fails. I hit all the limitations of random pugs.
I was unable to finish Banished Cells II, two nights in a row, even when group had an amazing healer, and i was doing my job properly.
I know this kind of sounds contradictory for some of you, but its not. One does not need to be immortal to be a good tank. You just got to know what to do, when to block, when to dodge, where to go with the aggro, etc. If you do that but you rely on your healer to do it, thats good. So that was what i was doing, and i was also doing some DPS. BUT DPS's were so low that we just couldn't pull it of! (and it wasn't only at this boss, it happened several times .... on the other hand, the few times that i had 2 solid DPS in my group, everything went smooth!)

Althoug, most of this time, most of the DPS i've played with were all dealing-low-dmg. This has been going on for so long, since i've been tank since lvl15. But i've stressed out so much about this.. so many fails due to the lack of DPS.

OR EVEN DPS DUDES THAT DONT RESS YOUR FALLEN TEAMMATES BECAUSE (?) They've got to kill!? .. Every now and then healer ends up ressing and group wipes! I (as tank) ended up ressing and the group wiped! I also tried (sometimes) to manage all the agro so we all ended up near the dead guy, but it was "safe enough" to ress him (for our dps), but he didn't!! WTH man, we gotta wipe or take 2 hours to finish because you cant stop dealing (low) DMG??

Anyways... I was done with this stress.
So i switched myself to DPS, dual wield / destro staff. I dont even have DPS gear, i've got all my tank stuff, but i switched to DPS. Heavy gear, 27k hp, 12k mag (+4k with food) and 17k stam.
So i went as DPS and guess what. I did incredibly well. So much DMG done i couldn't believe it. I dont even have DPS gear. I found myself wondering: What's up, how can people do SO LOW DPS? "Its seriously this easy?" I could burn mobs really well and quite fast (not the best ofc (yet?)) and i obviously ressed my teammates when/if they died. And it was a decent propper smoothy swiftly cool propper run.

I was a tank, and switched to DPS and i do more DPS than some people that ARE DPS!?

GUYS PLEASE. IF YOU ARE A DPS PERSON, RESS YOUR TEAMMATES BECAUSE YOUR TANK AND HEALER GOT A MORE IMPORTANT JOB TO DO ( 95% OF THE TIMES ).
AND MOST IMPORTANTLY, IF YOU ARE A DPS PERSON, BUILD YOURSELF TO DEAL THE MOST DPS YOU CAN DEAL TO GO TO A DUNGEON AND DO YOUR JOB - WHICH IS (redundantly..) TO DEAL A BUNCH OF DMG -.

I've just proven myself its not hard. You just gotta do more than spam 1 skill. Spam 6 skills maybe.

I agree with you, but I would like to know how much average DPS is enough to be considered ok DPS.

UrQuan

Rastoide wrote: »

GUYS PLEASE. IF YOU ARE A DPS PERSON, RESS YOUR TEAMMATES BECAUSE YOUR TANK AND HEALER GOT A MORE IMPORTANT JOB TO DO ( 95% OF THE TIMES ).

This part in particular is so true (as others in this thread have mentioned). The vast majority of the time a DPS should be the one to go and res a dead teammate, unless that's impossible for some reason (like the DPS is stuck in the cave in Fungal Grotto, or in a bubble in the air in Banished Cells, or dead, or whatever). If it's not possible for it to be a DPS, then most of the time it should be the tank, provided the tank can hold necessary aggro while grabbing the res without getting killed or interrupted.

IrishGirlGamer wrote: »

Jamini wrote: »

he group leader was V16 and he held the crown (so the dungeon scaled to him, back at that time). I was supposed to be DPS but seriously?? I told them again - before we even started - that I wasn't good enough. They told me not to worry about it. It soon became clear that I was getting wiped every boss fight. Their solution? Give me a stack of soul gems. Seriously.

If you don't feel like you can complete content, it's okay to leave. Even leaving guild members is fine.

I'm sorry you had such a bad experience.

The problem was they wanted to complete the dungeon (vWGT) and if I had bailed they would have been stuck (IIR).

Honestly, I haven't been back to vWGT since.

*facepalm*

So they took you, as a brand new VR1 who kept telling them you were inexperienced in dungeons, to a VR16-scaled vWGT? I'm betting it was pre-nerf too. What the hell did they think was going to happen? You were set up for failure... No wonder everyone had a bad time!

SolarCat02

altemriel wrote: »

Rastoide wrote: »

Hi. Please, do not answer if you didn't read the whole thing. Ty!

After achieving an "immortal" sortof build, i grew tired of dealing with eternal-runs becouse DPS were usually (seriosuly most of the time) LACKING DPS, so i decided to switch to a more of a sortof Tank/DPS build myself. I gave up my "immortality" to be able to do runs more swiftly, and for a moment there it went pretty good.
My dps were low, but that aoe did help the teams. Altho, most groups i ended up in were still lacking DPS.. so i went further on my build. I gave up some more defense, ran dual wield / 1h shield, and i boosted up my DPS - for a tank i believe that was quite a lot of dps -.
But eventually i find myself dealing with bosses that are quite challenging (mostly if you're not immortal) and it kinda made me feel like "now that i'm able to tank and dps succesfully", i was beggining to be a problem at the hard boss fights. Because the DPS were still LACKING, and i could only sustain for long as long as the healer was good enough too!
So NOW that i RELY on group, everything fails. I hit all the limitations of random pugs.
I was unable to finish Banished Cells II, two nights in a row, even when group had an amazing healer, and i was doing my job properly.
I know this kind of sounds contradictory for some of you, but its not. One does not need to be immortal to be a good tank. You just got to know what to do, when to block, when to dodge, where to go with the aggro, etc. If you do that but you rely on your healer to do it, thats good. So that was what i was doing, and i was also doing some DPS. BUT DPS's were so low that we just couldn't pull it of! (and it wasn't only at this boss, it happened several times .... on the other hand, the few times that i had 2 solid DPS in my group, everything went smooth!)

Althoug, most of this time, most of the DPS i've played with were all dealing-low-dmg. This has been going on for so long, since i've been tank since lvl15. But i've stressed out so much about this.. so many fails due to the lack of DPS.

OR EVEN DPS DUDES THAT DONT RESS YOUR FALLEN TEAMMATES BECAUSE (?) They've got to kill!? .. Every now and then healer ends up ressing and group wipes! I (as tank) ended up ressing and the group wiped! I also tried (sometimes) to manage all the agro so we all ended up near the dead guy, but it was "safe enough" to ress him (for our dps), but he didn't!! WTH man, we gotta wipe or take 2 hours to finish because you cant stop dealing (low) DMG??

Anyways... I was done with this stress.
So i switched myself to DPS, dual wield / destro staff. I dont even have DPS gear, i've got all my tank stuff, but i switched to DPS. Heavy gear, 27k hp, 12k mag (+4k with food) and 17k stam.
So i went as DPS and guess what. I did incredibly well. So much DMG done i couldn't believe it. I dont even have DPS gear. I found myself wondering: What's up, how can people do SO LOW DPS? "Its seriously this easy?" I could burn mobs really well and quite fast (not the best ofc (yet?)) and i obviously ressed my teammates when/if they died. And it was a decent propper smoothy swiftly cool propper run.

I was a tank, and switched to DPS and i do more DPS than some people that ARE DPS!?

GUYS PLEASE. IF YOU ARE A DPS PERSON, RESS YOUR TEAMMATES BECAUSE YOUR TANK AND HEALER GOT A MORE IMPORTANT JOB TO DO ( 95% OF THE TIMES ).
AND MOST IMPORTANTLY, IF YOU ARE A DPS PERSON, BUILD YOURSELF TO DEAL THE MOST DPS YOU CAN DEAL TO GO TO A DUNGEON AND DO YOUR JOB - WHICH IS (redundantly..) TO DEAL A BUNCH OF DMG -.

I've just proven myself its not hard. You just gotta do more than spam 1 skill. Spam 6 skills maybe.

I agree with you, but I would like to know how much average DPS is enough to be considered ok DPS.

Speaking as someone who has no problem with pulling less-than-stellar dps through dungeons as long as they are interested in learning, I can do a decent estimate on the rock bottom to get through it...
Keep in mind, you need to like the company of the people you are running with! Because you will be there a while. The lower the dps total, the more pressure on the tank and healer, because the longer the fight, so you MUST have a solid healer and tank to have a chance of succeeding with these numbers. And budget 1-2 hours depending on the dungeon.

Normal dungeons are doable if your dps has a minimum total of about 10k single target. (This is also close to the number required to beat Bloodspawn in normal Spindleclutch II before he enrages.) They can be even lower in some cases if they have decent AoE damage. You will not be able to beat some of the optional bosses, like the skeever boss in Wayrest Sewers I.

For veteran dungeons, double that total dps to 20k, and add a requirement for strong group coordination. You will need to follow ALL the mechanics, and you will experience quite a few cycles of these mechanics, so all members in a group with dps this low have to work together efficiently. The biggest barrier to completing is team morale when an important aspect of the mechanics are dropped and result in a wipe after a hard fight that looked like it was going to be "the one".

Hardmodes for dungeons like most DLC dungeons, plus Direfrost Keep and City of Ash II, I would recommend closer to 30k total, although you can beat them with less if you are stubborn. Elden Hollow I final boss Hardmode will also take about 45 minutes for the fight if you have only 20k total dps, so more is recommended for the sake of fingers, although the fight itself is easy.



IMPORTANT NOTE: If you are doing these dungeons with DPS this low, it will take FOREVER. But you can beat it if you are persistent enough.

idk

Mush55 wrote: »

Four words as to why most pugs are a misery to run with..............PLAY AS YOU WANT.........................

This is true and inexperience plays a role as well on multiple levels.

Unsure of the overall message from OP.

Pugs do not have meta strong dps?

Some dungeon bosses don't need tanks but a few do?

Many dps don't rez unless told to which is not easy on PC?

heng14rwb17_ESO

Well to ensure a 99.9% sucess rate.
Go to each alliance home capital and speak in zone chat.

LF1M exp dps,max cp for daily vet pledge.
LF1M exp healer/tank,max cp for daily vet pledge.

Erock25

I use the group finder as a tank and almost always have successful runs. If you're always finding your pug pledges to be difficult whether you're a tank, heals, or dps ... It's probably your fault.

WhitePawPrints

I've been running a lot of PuGs lately as Tank, and have experienced good and bad. I'm pretty self-sufficient, with very low DPS, but I usually am the one to revive others, while tanking the bosses. It can get a bit annoying.

Today I probably had the most frustrating run with a pug group. It was my impression that the other three were already in a group and I was the oddman out. That's fine and all, except that the dumb stamsorc DPS kept bolting into mobs, and pulling the boss. Made it really difficult for me to control the mobs. Not only that, but I was the last to be healed, as the TANK! It was a quick run, despite the stamsorc consistently dying, but they probably needed to be told what the role of a tank is.

Smitch_59

I'm a terrible player, but at least I have the self-awareness to know that I'm a terrible player. I don't do group dungeons or trials, therefore I don't inflict my terribleness on others.

Rev Rielle

Honestly, I think a lot of it has to do with the lack of trust that's going around these days. And this is in part to the fact that any class can play any role. Speaking from a healer point of view (and a tank sometimes), it can bee disappointing and frustrating when dps switch to a restoration staff and start firing off mutagen or rapid regeneration, or healing springs etc in the middle of battle. It's just a couple and utter waste of time: Let the healer healer. Same goes for dps taunting the adds etc; it just doesn't need to be done. Dps are there to damage, healing just makes the battle longer and harder.

If you've wiped a few times in a row and it's obvious it's the healing that's lacking (or the tanking, or whatever), then sure, talk in the group before the troubling battle about blurring some of the roles. But when nothing's going wrong and you see players over healing and over healing when they're there to do damage or tank, etc. It's just odd.

Another thing I've noticed is dps jumping around (literally jumping sometimes) and continually moving and kiting enemies about whilst in battle. This does nothing and only makes the battle harder. It's not PvP where targeting is affected by movement. Moving enemies about only a), makes it harder for you to get any heals as you're moving out of healing springs, combat prayer, ritual of retribution etc etc, and b) more importantly, moves enemies out of the ground targeted damage over time effects that are placed on the ground, effectively crippling your group's dps at times. This goes for the tank too: Don't move around.Other than to move out of 'red circles of death' and other times when it's clearly necessary, you should be standing still and more often than not, close together. The number of times I've seen a tank pull a boss away from the spot where a Shooting Star has just been dropped... I've noticed generally that the players that continually jump about like nutters don't seem to know (haven't take the time to learn) how to block and interrupt, or are PvPers. I've seen some very high ranked PvPers jump about and ruin things for the group.

There's either no trust in others or people just don't understand how to work together in group content these days (or it's a side effect of the 'do anything' mechanics of the game). It's just disappointing.

Sure the game's about playing as you want, but when you're in a group and part of group content, your actions affect others, so it's in everyone's best interest if you put in a little effort to try and be the a competent player for the role your character's signed up for. It's exceptionally easy to create character - any character - that is competent in the role you want for them.

Drummerx04

I'm getting tired of this "worthless dps won't rez" mentality. There are so many one shot/bleed/stun mechanics in dungeons and trials that sometimes a good dps will look at a situation and go, "If I try to rez RIGHT NOW I will die and we will be in an even worse situation, so I'm going to keep dpsing until a better opportunity comes about.

Take Lord Warden as an example. During his add phase, meteors begin to drop at much shorter intervals than in other parts of the fight. The healer and other dps are dead under 3 orbs and meteor hail bombardment and there are 2 shades left to kill.

Do I:

1. Eat absurd amounts of damage and stuns trying to rez them
2. Dps the remaining shades and hope the tank can survive while I push the fight into the next stage

Probably a solid 70% of the time I get killed in vet dungeons it's when trying to revive others. There are a lot of times when it's just not practical or even really possible to rez and it's time to accept that.

Eleusian

I enjoy using group finder as a tank and some *** Qued in as a healer so he wouldn't have to Wait. Usually it's a res fest . Basically why I will not tank with pugs till my tank has vigor.

Prof_Bawbag

Smitch_59 wrote: »

I'm a terrible player, but at least I have the self-awareness to know that I'm a terrible player. I don't do group dungeons or trials, therefore I don't inflict my terribleness on others.

I can almost guarantee you that everyone on these forums started off as a bad player in vet dungeons. It's more about having the willingness to take advice onboard more than actual straight off the bat skill. First dungeon i went into, I was bad, but not so bad that I stood in red dots or cones nor completely ignore those health orbs some enemies seem to love. Get the basics right and the rest soon follows.

Vaoh

IrishGirlGamer wrote: »

First, thanks for posting one of the known problems with DPS, although I'll be the first to admit that at one point, I was probably that low DPS person.

Second, thanks to @SolarCat02 for pointing out a known issue: that questing in the game doesn't prepare a player for the roles they will need to play (and honestly, it's not just DPS) in a dungeon run.

So what happens? You level up, you get to the endgame, and you get invited to run a dungeon (or maybe you decide to start running dungeons). Then the truth hits you. This happened to me:

Back in the old V-level system, on the day I reached V-level 1, I was invited to run a vet dungeon with a number of higher leveled players. I explained I'd never ran dungeons before but one of the guys, from my guild, was like, "C'mon, it'll be fun." Well, it was anything but fun.

The group leader was V16 and he held the crown (so the dungeon scaled to him, back at that time). I was supposed to be DPS but seriously?? I told them again - before we even started - that I wasn't good enough. They told me not to worry about it. It soon became clear that I was getting wiped every boss fight. Their solution? Give me a stack of soul gems. Seriously.

I kept telling them that I hadn't run the dungeon before, I hadn't run as a DPS, and that I didn't know what I was doing. Too bad, they kept getting more and more frustrated ... with me. What made the situation even worse (other than the dungeon was sixteen levels ABOVE mine), was that the leader wouldn't communicate with me at all ... until it was finally over (yes, we completed the dungeon) when he sent me a message: "Never again!"

Maybe he was justified. To be clear, this wasn't a group finder. This was me being pulled into group because they couldn't find enough players to run.

Honestly, I get that it's frustrating to run with someone who isn't as good as you. So maybe, rather than posting about how everyone needs to learn this skill, share your knowledge. Clearly, your a good DPS. Why not write a brief guide or give some tips. Think of the information you could have shared in the same 729 words that make up the original post.

Edit: And to be clear, I'm not being facetious. I only learned to DPS when a couple of very nice guys in my guild started helping me. Saying "Go fix you DPS" without offering any suggestions at all isn't very helpful.

Truth!

Every single one of those great DPS players (along with tanks/healers) you see around showing off their vMoL skins totally sucked at their roles at one point.

Teach dungeon newbies the way. Don't be the guy who shouts "L2P" and then continues to complain until everyone in your group disbands.