So, i was a tank.. - Read if your NOT a tank -

Asardes

Personally, after a year of tanking dungeons almost daily and seeing people hit like boiled noodles and die like flies to totally predictable dungeon mechanics, despite the fact I had everything aggroed I consider I've had enough. I think I will give my main char a well deserved vacation and take up other group positions. I have a healer fully trained and geared. At least if group DPS sucks I can slot DPS skills and carry on. The straw that broke the camel's back was 3 hours spent in VCoS yesterday with 4 different groups that did everything wrong. It's also the last time I will attempt to play with people I don't know. I'm sick and tired of pretentious scrubs that don't even google the tactics before going in a difficult dungeon, and then expect the more experienced player to explain everything and suffer trough dozens of wipes. This game is not a job and I will stop pretending it is.

Cherryblossom

There are I agree many DPS who don't fully understand the concept behind doing damage.

Many times I've seen dps just using single target attacks, no dots, no laid down aoe, they also think they are doing well! I always try to explain to them half of their DPS comes from DOT so the more they lay down the greater their DPS will be, some don't get it, but others do. You can teach some to be better players, however some you really do need to cut your losses and leave.

I don't tend to worry in most dungeons about lack of DPS as most except the more Challenging DLC dungeons are not a DPS race. I do tend to worry about people who can't understand simple mechanics in fights, even after explaining it a few times.

QQ regarding Res I agree with, I don't actually mind res'ing as a tank in most boss fights as I'm fairly confident I won't die in most of them. But in some cases Res'ing is not an option if you want to survive, had a recent occassion in VCoS with the spider boss in the dark, where the DPS and Healer died when the brazier went out and they decided not to move, so I was left with the boss and the little spiders to deal with, and putting up with them saying come Res us man (whilst they are in the dark area) so I stand and fight trying to kill as many of the little spiders as possible to improve my chances of survival, then the sarcastic comment "o your such a hero, don't need to res you can do it alone!".
As the brazier goes out I move back to the one they died at and res the DPS who made this comment, I continue tanking, this DPS does not res the other two! Brazier goes out I move he dies again. Again the same comments, why didn't you res all of us! Once again I'm taking the boss trying to kill as many little spiders as possible.
End up back at their brazier, this time I res the healer, he res's the others. We kill the boss finally.
I then explain I can't res whilst having to maintain my shields, resources and block to stay alive, I then asked why the DPS hadn't res'd the others! I was then kicked from the group! I've never been so glad to be kicked.

From this I take that there are some real ar$eholes in the world, but I have to say the majority of my experiences have been mainly positive and these issues are few and far between. So sometimes I think we focus on the negatives more.

schroed360

SolarCat02 wrote: »

altemriel wrote: »

Rastoide wrote: »

Hi. Please, do not answer if you didn't read the whole thing. Ty!

After achieving an "immortal" sortof build, i grew tired of dealing with eternal-runs becouse DPS were usually (seriosuly most of the time) LACKING DPS, so i decided to switch to a more of a sortof Tank/DPS build myself. I gave up my "immortality" to be able to do runs more swiftly, and for a moment there it went pretty good.
My dps were low, but that aoe did help the teams. Altho, most groups i ended up in were still lacking DPS.. so i went further on my build. I gave up some more defense, ran dual wield / 1h shield, and i boosted up my DPS - for a tank i believe that was quite a lot of dps -.
But eventually i find myself dealing with bosses that are quite challenging (mostly if you're not immortal) and it kinda made me feel like "now that i'm able to tank and dps succesfully", i was beggining to be a problem at the hard boss fights. Because the DPS were still LACKING, and i could only sustain for long as long as the healer was good enough too!
So NOW that i RELY on group, everything fails. I hit all the limitations of random pugs.
I was unable to finish Banished Cells II, two nights in a row, even when group had an amazing healer, and i was doing my job properly.
I know this kind of sounds contradictory for some of you, but its not. One does not need to be immortal to be a good tank. You just got to know what to do, when to block, when to dodge, where to go with the aggro, etc. If you do that but you rely on your healer to do it, thats good. So that was what i was doing, and i was also doing some DPS. BUT DPS's were so low that we just couldn't pull it of! (and it wasn't only at this boss, it happened several times .... on the other hand, the few times that i had 2 solid DPS in my group, everything went smooth!)

Althoug, most of this time, most of the DPS i've played with were all dealing-low-dmg. This has been going on for so long, since i've been tank since lvl15. But i've stressed out so much about this.. so many fails due to the lack of DPS.

OR EVEN DPS DUDES THAT DONT RESS YOUR FALLEN TEAMMATES BECAUSE (?) They've got to kill!? .. Every now and then healer ends up ressing and group wipes! I (as tank) ended up ressing and the group wiped! I also tried (sometimes) to manage all the agro so we all ended up near the dead guy, but it was "safe enough" to ress him (for our dps), but he didn't!! WTH man, we gotta wipe or take 2 hours to finish because you cant stop dealing (low) DMG??

Anyways... I was done with this stress.
So i switched myself to DPS, dual wield / destro staff. I dont even have DPS gear, i've got all my tank stuff, but i switched to DPS. Heavy gear, 27k hp, 12k mag (+4k with food) and 17k stam.
So i went as DPS and guess what. I did incredibly well. So much DMG done i couldn't believe it. I dont even have DPS gear. I found myself wondering: What's up, how can people do SO LOW DPS? "Its seriously this easy?" I could burn mobs really well and quite fast (not the best ofc (yet?)) and i obviously ressed my teammates when/if they died. And it was a decent propper smoothy swiftly cool propper run.

I was a tank, and switched to DPS and i do more DPS than some people that ARE DPS!?

GUYS PLEASE. IF YOU ARE A DPS PERSON, RESS YOUR TEAMMATES BECAUSE YOUR TANK AND HEALER GOT A MORE IMPORTANT JOB TO DO ( 95% OF THE TIMES ).
AND MOST IMPORTANTLY, IF YOU ARE A DPS PERSON, BUILD YOURSELF TO DEAL THE MOST DPS YOU CAN DEAL TO GO TO A DUNGEON AND DO YOUR JOB - WHICH IS (redundantly..) TO DEAL A BUNCH OF DMG -.

I've just proven myself its not hard. You just gotta do more than spam 1 skill. Spam 6 skills maybe.

I agree with you, but I would like to know how much average DPS is enough to be considered ok DPS.

Speaking as someone who has no problem with pulling less-than-stellar dps through dungeons as long as they are interested in learning, I can do a decent estimate on the rock bottom to get through it...
Keep in mind, you need to like the company of the people you are running with! Because you will be there a while. The lower the dps total, the more pressure on the tank and healer, because the longer the fight, so you MUST have a solid healer and tank to have a chance of succeeding with these numbers. And budget 1-2 hours depending on the dungeon.

Normal dungeons are doable if your dps has a minimum total of about 10k single target. (This is also close to the number required to beat Bloodspawn in normal Spindleclutch II before he enrages.) They can be even lower in some cases if they have decent AoE damage. You will not be able to beat some of the optional bosses, like the skeever boss in Wayrest Sewers I.

For veteran dungeons, double that total dps to 20k, and add a requirement for strong group coordination. You will need to follow ALL the mechanics, and you will experience quite a few cycles of these mechanics, so all members in a group with dps this low have to work together efficiently. The biggest barrier to completing is team morale when an important aspect of the mechanics are dropped and result in a wipe after a hard fight that looked like it was going to be "the one".

Hardmodes for dungeons like most DLC dungeons, plus Direfrost Keep and City of As II, I would recommend closer to 30k total, although you can beat them with less if you are stubborn. Elden Hollow I final boss Hardmode will also take about 45 minutes for the fight if you have only 20k total dps, so more is recommended for the sake of fingers, although the fight itself is easy.



IMPORTANT NOTE: If you are doing these dungeons with DPS this low, it will take FOREVER. But you can beat it if you are persistent enough.

I aplause you sir! To be able to give such detailed about the limit low threshold of dps by having experienced it by yourself is amazing.

When the group dps is barely 40k vet dungeon already sounds like there taking ages for me so doing them with as low as 20...

I think you deserve the medal of the most patient player!
I just can t imagine how much you suffer to be aware of those number or as you Saïd how much you LOVE those player.

Niaver

I also play as a tank, i'm totally fine if ppl still have bad gear or something and are doing bad dps.

What really makes me angry is when they don't even try to be useful, for example res our healer... They are just running around him\her, what a joke. Happened to me in vWGT few days ago xD

anitajoneb17_ESO

UrQuan wrote: »

Rastoide wrote: »

GUYS PLEASE. IF YOU ARE A DPS PERSON, RESS YOUR TEAMMATES BECAUSE YOUR TANK AND HEALER GOT A MORE IMPORTANT JOB TO DO ( 95% OF THE TIMES ).

This part in particular is so true (as others in this thread have mentioned). The vast majority of the time a DPS should be the one to go and res a dead teammate.

Damn good question. Whose job is it to rezz ?

Some groups/guilds consider it's the DDs' job to rezz (which I tend to agree on since there are 2 of them and tank/healer have other top priorities).
Some groups/guilds consider it's the tank's job to rezz because he can keep doing his job (keep aggro and stay alive) while rezzing someone.
Some groups/guilds consider it's the healer's job to rezz because healers can stack a lot of HoTs and because templars have passives for rezzing quicker.
Some groups/guilds consider it's the templars' job to rezz due to class passives, regardless of roles.

Truth is, it's situational, and most optimal way to go about it is... as usual... to COMMUNICATE.

I for one as sorc DD have given up on rezzing. I'm just fed up with locating a dead teammate, assessing the risk/benefit of the situation, and moving to him to rezz, just to find out that someone else is already rezzing (and of course hasn't said a word, even if we're on TeamSpeak). Worse, I can even be accused of not focusing on my own business as DD, or frowned upon because of the resulting lower DPS output.

Shad0wfire99

In a dungeon, it really doesn't matter who gets the rez as long as SOMEONE gets it, IMO. In a trial (especially vet trials), it's the job of the DD's (or the off-tank in certain situations) to rez. If the healers stop healing to rez, more people die. If the main tank dies, everyone probably dies.

Ozstryker

EvilCroc wrote: »

The first rule of ESO: blame DD's. It's their fault.

Second rule: go to the forums and make ANOTHER post whinging about them

schroed360

Prof_Bawbag wrote: »

How can anyone possibly L2P if every 'badass' like yourself just boots them off the island? Oh i get it, leave that *** to everyone else. I'm glad the people who initially dragged you through dungeons didn't have your 'badass' attitude otherwise you'd still be the very player you now look down on from your Ivory tower.

Dude the man was not elitist at all. You misread, he said under 15k. For vdungeon that is actually quite low. And with crafted blue gear and a home made rotation based on tooltip you can get above that.
And stop assuming everybody as been teached by someone else. Lot of guy have been here since beginning and have had to learn by trying different rotation because they was no guide writen few video etc.
And how to learn to play? Maybe by learning to read... the helping player sction of the forum contain more than what you need to become more than descent...now.

Julianos

Rastoide wrote: »

Hi. Please, do not answer if you didn't read the whole thing. Ty!

After achieving an "immortal" sortof build, i grew tired of dealing with eternal-runs becouse DPS were usually (seriosuly most of the time) LACKING DPS, so i decided to switch to a more of a sortof Tank/DPS build myself. I gave up my "immortality" to be able to do runs more swiftly, and for a moment there it went pretty good.
My dps were low, but that aoe did help the teams. Altho, most groups i ended up in were still lacking DPS.. so i went further on my build. I gave up some more defense, ran dual wield / 1h shield, and i boosted up my DPS - for a tank i believe that was quite a lot of dps -.
But eventually i find myself dealing with bosses that are quite challenging (mostly if you're not immortal) and it kinda made me feel like "now that i'm able to tank and dps succesfully", i was beggining to be a problem at the hard boss fights. Because the DPS were still LACKING, and i could only sustain for long as long as the healer was good enough too!
So NOW that i RELY on group, everything fails. I hit all the limitations of random pugs.
I was unable to finish Banished Cells II, two nights in a row, even when group had an amazing healer, and i was doing my job properly.
I know this kind of sounds contradictory for some of you, but its not. One does not need to be immortal to be a good tank. You just got to know what to do, when to block, when to dodge, where to go with the aggro, etc. If you do that but you rely on your healer to do it, thats good. So that was what i was doing, and i was also doing some DPS. BUT DPS's were so low that we just couldn't pull it of! (and it wasn't only at this boss, it happened several times .... on the other hand, the few times that i had 2 solid DPS in my group, everything went smooth!)

Althoug, most of this time, most of the DPS i've played with were all dealing-low-dmg. This has been going on for so long, since i've been tank since lvl15. But i've stressed out so much about this.. so many fails due to the lack of DPS.

OR EVEN DPS DUDES THAT DONT RESS YOUR FALLEN TEAMMATES BECAUSE (?) They've got to kill!? .. Every now and then healer ends up ressing and group wipes! I (as tank) ended up ressing and the group wiped! I also tried (sometimes) to manage all the agro so we all ended up near the dead guy, but it was "safe enough" to ress him (for our dps), but he didn't!! WTH man, we gotta wipe or take 2 hours to finish because you cant stop dealing (low) DMG??

Anyways... I was done with this stress.
So i switched myself to DPS, dual wield / destro staff. I dont even have DPS gear, i've got all my tank stuff, but i switched to DPS. Heavy gear, 27k hp, 12k mag (+4k with food) and 17k stam.
So i went as DPS and guess what. I did incredibly well. So much DMG done i couldn't believe it. I dont even have DPS gear. I found myself wondering: What's up, how can people do SO LOW DPS? "Its seriously this easy?" I could burn mobs really well and quite fast (not the best ofc (yet?)) and i obviously ressed my teammates when/if they died. And it was a decent propper smoothy swiftly cool propper run.

I was a tank, and switched to DPS and i do more DPS than some people that ARE DPS!?

GUYS PLEASE. IF YOU ARE A DPS PERSON, RESS YOUR TEAMMATES BECAUSE YOUR TANK AND HEALER GOT A MORE IMPORTANT JOB TO DO ( 95% OF THE TIMES ).
AND MOST IMPORTANTLY, IF YOU ARE A DPS PERSON, BUILD YOURSELF TO DEAL THE MOST DPS YOU CAN DEAL TO GO TO A DUNGEON AND DO YOUR JOB - WHICH IS (redundantly..) TO DEAL A BUNCH OF DMG -.

I've just proven myself its not hard. You just gotta do more than spam 1 skill. Spam 6 skills maybe.

Its totally zos fault because even with BiS items if you dont do certain rotation your dps will be 10k i am a stam NB and my dps 30k 35k but for this i have to pull very hard rotation and use certain skills and items otherwise my dps would be 10k everyone should be a clone of each other to do high dps otherwise all dps will be 10k even with top gear thanks to zos' people want to play as they want you cant force people to be clones. ZOS goes and look up to %1 elite players and think oh we should make it more challenging but majority of players doesnt play as a min/maxer.

anitajoneb17_ESO

Axorn wrote: »

It's totally zos fault because even with BiS items if you dont do certain rotation your dps will be 10k i am a stam NB and my dps 30k 35k but for this i have to pull very hard rotation and use certain skills and items otherwise my dps would be 10k everyone should be a clone of each other to do high dps otherwise all dps will be 10k even with top gear thanks to zos' people want to play as they want you cant force people to be clones. ZOS goes and look up to %1 elite players and think oh we should make it more challenging but majority of players doesnt play as a min/maxer.

True but it's not ZOS fault. Most vet dungeons are perfectly and even easily doable with 2x basic 12-15K DPS. The players in general, and the "good" players in particular are to blame for setting up so-called milestones, declaring 20K as "low" and anything under that as "bad", and overseeing that it is, in fact, plenty enough.

schroed360

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

Axorn wrote: »

It's totally zos fault because even with BiS items if you dont do certain rotation your dps will be 10k i am a stam NB and my dps 30k 35k but for this i have to pull very hard rotation and use certain skills and items otherwise my dps would be 10k everyone should be a clone of each other to do high dps otherwise all dps will be 10k even with top gear thanks to zos' people want to play as they want you cant force people to be clones. ZOS goes and look up to %1 elite players and think oh we should make it more challenging but majority of players doesnt play as a min/maxer.

True but it's not ZOS fault. Most vet dungeons are perfectly and even easily doable with 2x basic 12-15K DPS. The players in general, and the "good" players in particular are to blame for setting up so-called milestones, declaring 20K as "low" and anything under that as "bad", and overseeing that it is, in fact, plenty enough.

While i agree to your statement, i think everybody should just think of it in a relative way. Relative such as time... In game Dps= real life time. More dps mean less time in dungeon, so more spare time to do what you want in the gaming time you have.

Basically poeple need to play with other that have the same expectation concerning the time spent/ complétion ratio.

If someone who run 10km in 45 mn run with someone who need 1h15 mn and you try to accomodate both you end up with :

-the faster bored if he want to be cool or leave the other alone.
- the slower one that die in agony trying to catch his breath.

Conclusion: If poeple don t want/ can t go in with poeple of the same mindset and use pick up group be prepared

- if you re a fast one : to get bored or to be better leaving.
- if you ré slow : to be pressured to get faster or being left alone ( kicked)

UppGRAYxDD

Go Blazing Shield tank with 5pc storm knight, 4 seducer, and 3 healthy endurance(mag recov enchant). Do Dps whilst you tank. On this build my guildy group beat vDSA on day one. On the final boss I was solo tanking while the dps dealt with mini bosses, and I was able to bring the main boss down from 75% health to 30% before the final burn. I also slot barrier on main shield bar for more recov and in the event that I was the last one left. Pop barrier, res healer, taunt mobs, shield up and res dps. Works like a champ when running with pugs

OrphanHelgen

I have seen dps with resto staff on offbar, even that annoys me.

I have seen dps in full pvp gear. I can somehow understand that, since myself come in pvp with pve gear, but Its not like I come into a pvp group with it, Im doing pvp with 2-3 friends.

I have seen dps who never used ultimate. A mag dk who did the whole dungeon and never used ultimate, not a single time. Why save it?

I have even seen dps with one hand and shield, spamming light attacks only and never bar swap. The same group the tank had a 2 hander, and did the same, spamming light attacks. The tank with 2 hander, weapon swapped once every 45 sec or somethng to taunt the boss. I had aggro over 80% of the times, our healer did not heal, had maybe 25k magicka and used rapid regen only. I had aggro, boss not in place, had to self heal, no buffs, got 35k dps over 2 min fight. I looked at my combat metrics and saw over 80% of the group dmg done was from me. I usually dont rage quit a group, but thats disrespectful, coming into group like that and have that little clue. 2 years ago, when I used to be a tank, my very first veteran dungeon I atleast taunted, had one hand and shield and self healed. We couldnt finish fungal 1 back then since I was only veteran 1 level, but atleast I didnt do any vet dungeons again until I knew more about the game, and I communicated well with my teammates, and left the group because I didnt want to pull theese guys back.

Long story short, this game has too many casual gamers, talking like they own this game, which also destroy the end gamers who really try their best to perform well and make progress. But Im guessing its same in other MMO's as well.

anitajoneb17_ESO

schroed360 wrote: »

Conclusion: If poeple don t want/ can t go in with poeple of the same mindset and use pick up group be prepared
- if you re a fast one : to get bored or to be better leaving.
- if you ré slow : to be pressured to get faster or being left alone ( kicked)

Yes, you're right. I always say "if you have expectations, DO NOT PUG".
But obviously some people aren't willing to listen to that piece of advice. After all, it looks like it is a good source of forum post feed...

I still would like to point out that many, many PUG experiences are positive ingame. It's a good source of fun and atypical runs for experienced players (they usually can carry the whole group anyway), and a good source of experience and advice for newbier players. Maybe I got lucky most times, but I never experienced the "horror stories" reported here. Maybe I accomodate luck by not pugging DLC dungeons, too.

Mr_Apollo

As a tank myself, get your frustration...so many times, I cant stress enough for the DPS to rez the rest, its not really in the best of interests for the tank, who is tanking a boss (+Adds for me, which Is what I normally do) or a healer who is trying to keep the tank alive as he taunts everything to rez the person who is down, ive reached a point where I had to tell before each dungeon "Please, please, (insert dps names here) rez, don't let the healer or the tank to do it or its very likely we will die". After a point it became unbearable so I decided to give up on PUGs, I now have a few friends who I run with and they aren't the best, but at least they do understand to listen. If you want to do PUGs you either one, suck it up; two, try to give tips (if they listen) or three, just leave and search for another group (if they don't listen), don't forget to tell your reason though, else it is considered rude in my opinion

SolarCat02

schroed360 wrote: »

SolarCat02 wrote: »

Speaking as someone who has no problem with pulling less-than-stellar dps through dungeons as long as they are interested in learning, I can do a decent estimate on the rock bottom to get through it...
Keep in mind, you need to like the company of the people you are running with! Because you will be there a while. The lower the dps total, the more pressure on the tank and healer, because the longer the fight, so you MUST have a solid healer and tank to have a chance of succeeding with these numbers. And budget 1-2 hours depending on the dungeon.

Normal dungeons are doable if your dps has a minimum total of about 10k single target. (This is also close to the number required to beat Bloodspawn in normal Spindleclutch II before he enrages.) They can be even lower in some cases if they have decent AoE damage. You will not be able to beat some of the optional bosses, like the skeever boss in Wayrest Sewers I.

For veteran dungeons, double that total dps to 20k, and add a requirement for strong group coordination. You will need to follow ALL the mechanics, and you will experience quite a few cycles of these mechanics, so all members in a group with dps this low have to work together efficiently. The biggest barrier to completing is team morale when an important aspect of the mechanics are dropped and result in a wipe after a hard fight that looked like it was going to be "the one".

Hardmodes for dungeons like most DLC dungeons, plus Direfrost Keep and City of As II, I would recommend closer to 30k total, although you can beat them with less if you are stubborn. Elden Hollow I final boss Hardmode will also take about 45 minutes for the fight if you have only 20k total dps, so more is recommended for the sake of fingers, although the fight itself is easy.



IMPORTANT NOTE: If you are doing these dungeons with DPS this low, it will take FOREVER. But you can beat it if you are persistent enough.

I aplause you sir! To be able to give such detailed about the limit low threshold of dps by having experienced it by yourself is amazing.

When the group dps is barely 40k vet dungeon already sounds like there taking ages for me so doing them with as low as 20...

I think you deserve the medal of the most patient player!
I just can t imagine how much you suffer to be aware of those number or as you Saïd how much you LOVE those player.

If people have a good attitude, I don't really care what we are doing. My main is a healer, and the only bits I really have left to conquer are veteran Trials and Maelstrom... And I am not really in a rush for Maelstrom until the instability settles down somewhat. Plus I need more practice on the damage dealing side. (Working on gearing up a Stamplar DPS to get some good practice in.)

So everything else is just an opportunity to practice and prepare. I make my own Hardmode. My healer currently pulls ~8k DPS total on Bloodspawn full solo (self healing and tanking plus damage in my healing gear), so I am getting there. She can also tank most non-melee bosses in the game (also in her light armor healing getup) and even a few melee.

I have learned all this by putting myself in these situations with people still learning but eager to do so. They practice their rotations as we hunt for their gear, and I practice becoming more awesome.

That said, there are some people that I will never run with again, not even a normal dungeon. Like the 3k dps (yes, 3k, 4 minutes on Bloodspawn before I ran out of magicka trying to heal through the enrage, and Bloodspawn wasn't even at 50% health) who complains incessantly about how nobody will help him fix his build (but no, your suggestion is a stupid idea, he wants "real" help) but spends the entire dungeon dead because, "I am just drawn to the red, man. I gotta be me."

Some people are beyond help. I enjoy helping the rest.

peak99

Well crap replied in wrong post*ignore*

Cryptical

People other than dps do the rezzing too.

Kagrenac's hope, a basic healing set, cuts the rezzing time by 25%.

Just saying, it's a team effort. If one dps is crowded because of reasons, then someone else on the team needs to do it.

Asardes

Most people I meet in PUGs make me realize that I'm better off vendoring those soul gems (prices have dropped on guild stores where I was selling before)

Ozstryker

[quote="anitajoneb17_ESO;3526484

True but it's not ZOS fault. Most vet dungeons are perfectly and even easily doable with 2x basic 12-15K DPS. The players in general, and the "good" players in particular are to blame for setting up so-called milestones, declaring 20K as "low" and anything under that as "bad", and overseeing that it is, in fact, plenty enough.


[/quote]

I blame DPS meters!.... But seriously the concept is simple, Normals for casual/ average players, Vets for Veteran/ advanced players... Must be said tho.. This game is going down the meta build road.. Driven by the elitist few !!

Flameheart

EvilCroc wrote: »

The first rule of ESO: blame DD's. It's their fault.

...and it is utterly true, sadly.

ESO is one of the most damage-centered MMOs I ever played. The difference between delivering low, average or awesome dps for beating an encounter is like pulling the lever for the difficulty level of an encounter from hard-boiled to pink-pony-farm.

In a 4-men-single-target-boss-encounter without much moving around, it's absolutely possible to deliver 20k dps without major buffs (warhorn) and debuffs, in (appropriate) purple gear by just weaving your main spam attack and while refreshing your dots.

The issue is....not even 25% of the so called DDs in PUGs I experienced were able to come even close.

People will tell you that it's still possible to beat encounters with low dps, you just need to follow the mechanics. Sure, but it costs time and how big is the chance to be a DD which does awful dps but is a superman when it comes to prevent incoming damage and scripted oneshot attacks by reactions, dodge rolling, blocking, shielding and moving and doing that not just for 3 minutes but for 6 and more minutes? DPS and movement awareness are usually two sides of the same medal.

Fodore

One of my hates is when I ( the healer ) gets left to do the ressing. I get dps' saying that it should be me because I'm NOT doing anything. And what do you know, most of the time (unless it's a really easy dungeon) the team dies...

AhPook_Is_Here

Rastoide wrote: »

Hi. Please, do not answer if you didn't read the whole thing. Ty!

After achieving an "immortal" sortof build, i grew tired of dealing with eternal-runs becouse DPS were usually (seriosuly most of the time) LACKING DPS, so i decided to switch to a more of a sortof Tank/DPS build myself. I gave up my "immortality" to be able to do runs more swiftly, and for a moment there it went pretty good.
My dps were low, but that aoe did help the teams. Altho, most groups i ended up in were still lacking DPS.. so i went further on my build. I gave up some more defense, ran dual wield / 1h shield, and i boosted up my DPS - for a tank i believe that was quite a lot of dps -.
But eventually i find myself dealing with bosses that are quite challenging (mostly if you're not immortal) and it kinda made me feel like "now that i'm able to tank and dps succesfully", i was beggining to be a problem at the hard boss fights. Because the DPS were still LACKING, and i could only sustain for long as long as the healer was good enough too!
So NOW that i RELY on group, everything fails. I hit all the limitations of random pugs.
I was unable to finish Banished Cells II, two nights in a row, even when group had an amazing healer, and i was doing my job properly.
I know this kind of sounds contradictory for some of you, but its not. One does not need to be immortal to be a good tank. You just got to know what to do, when to block, when to dodge, where to go with the aggro, etc. If you do that but you rely on your healer to do it, thats good. So that was what i was doing, and i was also doing some DPS. BUT DPS's were so low that we just couldn't pull it of! (and it wasn't only at this boss, it happened several times .... on the other hand, the few times that i had 2 solid DPS in my group, everything went smooth!)

Althoug, most of this time, most of the DPS i've played with were all dealing-low-dmg. This has been going on for so long, since i've been tank since lvl15. But i've stressed out so much about this.. so many fails due to the lack of DPS.

OR EVEN DPS DUDES THAT DONT RESS YOUR FALLEN TEAMMATES BECAUSE (?) They've got to kill!? .. Every now and then healer ends up ressing and group wipes! I (as tank) ended up ressing and the group wiped! I also tried (sometimes) to manage all the agro so we all ended up near the dead guy, but it was "safe enough" to ress him (for our dps), but he didn't!! WTH man, we gotta wipe or take 2 hours to finish because you cant stop dealing (low) DMG??

Anyways... I was done with this stress.
So i switched myself to DPS, dual wield / destro staff. I dont even have DPS gear, i've got all my tank stuff, but i switched to DPS. Heavy gear, 27k hp, 12k mag (+4k with food) and 17k stam.
So i went as DPS and guess what. I did incredibly well. So much DMG done i couldn't believe it. I dont even have DPS gear. I found myself wondering: What's up, how can people do SO LOW DPS? "Its seriously this easy?" I could burn mobs really well and quite fast (not the best ofc (yet?)) and i obviously ressed my teammates when/if they died. And it was a decent propper smoothy swiftly cool propper run.

I was a tank, and switched to DPS and i do more DPS than some people that ARE DPS!?

GUYS PLEASE. IF YOU ARE A DPS PERSON, RESS YOUR TEAMMATES BECAUSE YOUR TANK AND HEALER GOT A MORE IMPORTANT JOB TO DO ( 95% OF THE TIMES ).
AND MOST IMPORTANTLY, IF YOU ARE A DPS PERSON, BUILD YOURSELF TO DEAL THE MOST DPS YOU CAN DEAL TO GO TO A DUNGEON AND DO YOUR JOB - WHICH IS (redundantly..) TO DEAL A BUNCH OF DMG -.

I've just proven myself its not hard. You just gotta do more than spam 1 skill. Spam 6 skills maybe.

I agree with the dps rants, but tanks are really one of the better roles to be a rezzer. A few bosses make it challenging but a tank is very well suited for rezing.

gard

Rev Rielle wrote: »

Honestly, I think a lot of it has to do with the lack of trust that's going around these days. And this is in part to the fact that any class can play any role. Speaking from a healer point of view (and a tank sometimes), it can bee disappointing and frustrating when dps switch to a restoration staff and start firing off mutagen or rapid regeneration, or healing springs etc in the middle of battle. It's just a couple and utter waste of time: Let the healer healer. Same goes for dps taunting the adds etc; it just doesn't need to be done. Dps are there to damage, healing just makes the battle longer and harder.

If you've wiped a few times in a row and it's obvious it's the healing that's lacking (or the tanking, or whatever), then sure, talk in the group before the troubling battle about blurring some of the roles. But when nothing's going wrong and you see players over healing and over healing when they're there to do damage or tank, etc. It's just odd.

Another thing I've noticed is dps jumping around (literally jumping sometimes) and continually moving and kiting enemies about whilst in battle. This does nothing and only makes the battle harder. It's not PvP where targeting is affected by movement. Moving enemies about only a), makes it harder for you to get any heals as you're moving out of healing springs, combat prayer, ritual of retribution etc etc, and b) more importantly, moves enemies out of the ground targeted damage over time effects that are placed on the ground, effectively crippling your group's dps at times. This goes for the tank too: Don't move around.Other than to move out of 'red circles of death' and other times when it's clearly necessary, you should be standing still and more often than not, close together. The number of times I've seen a tank pull a boss away from the spot where a Shooting Star has just been dropped... I've noticed generally that the players that continually jump about like nutters don't seem to know (haven't take the time to learn) how to block and interrupt, or are PvPers. I've seen some very high ranked PvPers jump about and ruin things for the group.

There's either no trust in others or people just don't understand how to work together in group content these days (or it's a side effect of the 'do anything' mechanics of the game). It's just disappointing.

Sure the game's about playing as you want, but when you're in a group and part of group content, your actions affect others, so it's in everyone's best interest if you put in a little effort to try and be the a competent player for the role your character's signed up for. It's exceptionally easy to create character - any character - that is competent in the role you want for them.

I think the question is, why would a dps switch to a resto staff?
If the dps switches to a resto staff, might that be because the healer isn't doing his or her job?

UrQuan

GreasyDave wrote: »

First reason I fail to rez quickly enough-I can't find the dead dude. Seriously, where the hell did he die? I'm melee dps. I'm close up on the BOss, the ranged dps or healer goes down - they're not in screen -even if my camera viewing is wide - there are other dead bodies, where the hell is the dead guy. Sure, there's a small icon but on my UI the positioning of the icon is really weird and misleading and rarely right above the corpse. And if it is next to the corpse -there's probably another couple of bodies there two. This was a massive problem during the festival cos the skeleton corpses just showed up as lumps of earth - is that lump the dead healer or a dead ad? If ranged players are dodging aoes and die in some far corner, it's hard for me to find them.

That happens to everyone at least some of the time. Sometimes even if you find the dead guy it can also be really difficult to position yourself correctly to actually have the option to res pop up - and sometimes even when the option pops up it bugs and won't let you actually use the option.

But I don't think anyone complaining about DPS who don't go and res is complaining about stuff like that. I mean, that happens. The vast majority of the time it's less dangerous to the group if it's a DPS searching around having those troubles than if it's the healer or the tank searching around having those troubles.

Sinolai

Low DPS here, I do random normal dungeon runs to lvl up my skills I never use sorry for low DPS but that's the fastest way to lvl up.

newtinmpls

IrishGirlGamer wrote: »

Honestly, I get that it's frustrating to run with someone who isn't as good as you. So maybe, rather than posting about how everyone needs to learn this skill, share your knowledge. Clearly, your a good DPS. Why not write a brief guide or give some tips. Think of the information you could have shared in the same 729 words that make up the original post.

Edit: And to be clear, I'm not being facetious. I only learned to DPS when a couple of very nice guys in my guild started helping me. Saying "Go fix you DPS" without offering any suggestions at all isn't very helpful.

Yes.

I think it was at least months (ESO is my first MMO-anything) till I realised that it's best to be moving while in combat. It was at least a year before I could consistently do it

Learning was a process for me

newtinmpls

Prof_Bawbag wrote: »

How can anyone possibly L2P if every 'badass' like yourself just boots them off the island? Oh i get it, leave that *** to everyone else..

Now that you mention it, I suspect this is a version of the bystander effect - where if there is an accident or something going bad, the more people present, the less likely any one of them is to get off their behind and do something.

newtinmpls

Mush55 wrote: »

Trouble is the players that need this info ..

What actual info?

Most of this thread has been complaints.

rotaugen454

"You're"