Vet Darkshade Caverns II (Or any Vet II dungeon, really)

Marto

Again, I have ran the Grobull fight dozens of times. Trust me, I know what bad groups look like, and my group was definitely not bad. I was able to see rotations, AoEs, buffs, and the tank rarely, if ever, ran out of stamina. No one stood under the red AoEs and no one got overwhelmed because of poor CC or agro control.

But despite that. We COULD NOT kill the netches, despite everyone pulling a decent 20k, with me pulling 10k as a healer.

The new patch has tripled or cuadrupled the ammount of health enemies have. The problem lies entirely on the ammount of bonus resistance and health One Tamriel gave to these mobs.

The small netches had 150k health, the big ones had 350k. We were doing about 30% less damage on each strike, compared to before One Tamriel.

This is wrong.

inf.toniceb17_ESO

Dubhliam wrote: »

2xMolag Kena + 5xJulianos + 3xWillpower with Torug's Pact DW swords on one bar, and a simple Prismatic staff on the backbar (reward from the FG story quest)
18k DPS at best.

Maybe the pugs we using LAs or smthn i dunno. The fact is that i've never seen so many DDs who so little damage that dungon can't be completed. Hell just the day before the patch we did HM in CoH2 with practicly one DD. i had to heal group while we were standing in lava but it worked. Now every second pug group is a complete disaster. Well mb i should stop using group finder and just ask in Deshaan xD

DarkenedHour

My main toon is a 190+ stamNB and I am not fully geared yet so keep that into perspective. I am running 2 Hundings, 5 NM, 3 agi and CoAII monster set (achieved pre 1T). I ran vCoAII the other day with a group of cp 190-MAX post update. The first run we had we got it (final boss) down to 30ish% health- thats like 1.3m health left. The tank was like we can do this just prefect rotations and we can do this. a few trys later we got it. we pulled 1.3m health damage out of our asses. vet II dungeons just come down to mechanics, awareness and rotations. they ARE completely possible, but they are hard. LIKE they should be. at CP10 you should NOT be able to do vet II dungeons like you were able to do pre 1T.

Side note- TS or discord helps ALLOT

Just my opinion

1. Some people cant just handle taking in everything that is going on.
2. BS builds do NOT work. minMAX builds are not required but they do make a difference (insert joke about 4% differences)
3. vet II dungeons are not meant for pugging, 3 cp 200 friends on ts or discord is WAY better than 3 max cp people you dont know and cant talk to in the middle of a fight.
4. target prioritization is key


Anyway thats my 2 cents.

Dymence

Marto wrote: »

Again, I have ran the Grobull fight dozens of times. Trust me, I know what bad groups look like, and my group was definitely not bad. I was able to see rotations, AoEs, buffs, and the tank rarely, if ever, ran out of stamina. No one stood under the red AoEs and no one got overwhelmed because of poor CC or agro control.

But despite that. We COULD NOT kill the netches, despite everyone pulling a decent 20k, with me pulling 10k as a healer.

I find your story very, very hard to take at face value.

If you absolutely by no means can kill the boss, I don't know what to tell you man. Increased HP and resistances doesn't make things harder. It just makes things longer. If you can't do it because it's longer, it means your group was not good. No matter what you might believe.

Vangy

Dymence wrote: »

Marto wrote: »

Again, I have ran the Grobull fight dozens of times. Trust me, I know what bad groups look like, and my group was definitely not bad. I was able to see rotations, AoEs, buffs, and the tank rarely, if ever, ran out of stamina. No one stood under the red AoEs and no one got overwhelmed because of poor CC or agro control.

But despite that. We COULD NOT kill the netches, despite everyone pulling a decent 20k, with me pulling 10k as a healer.

I find your story very, very hard to take at face value.

If you absolutely by no means can kill the boss, I don't know what to tell you man. Increased HP and resistances doesn't make things harder. It just makes things longer. If you can't do it because it's longer, it means your group was not good. No matter what you might believe.

^this.

Even if I assume your DD's only pull 20k AOE deeps (u said they could pull 20k which I think was single target) which is supppperrr low. And each netch had lets say 300k hp (they dont). That is 20k + 20k + 10k per second. 300k/ 50k = 6 seconds. Come on now. 6 seconds to aoe and kill a bunch of netches is fine and dandy. And this is the super conservative estimation. If you can pull 20k ST you should be able to triple that easily in AOE by just something as simple as dropping one or 2 aoe dots and mashing face on impulse or steel nado with 0 animation cancelling. Even if the boss had 5 million hp, and you only had a 10 second window each time he drops to DPS it would be 5mil/50k = 100 seconds. You'd need to drop the boss 10 times by killing the small jellies but he would die eventually. It might take 15 mins but still doable even with super bad DPS. Dont think this boss has an enrage mechanic. I dont think grobull has 5 mil hp tho. This fight is a lot easier with a tank tbh if ur DPS is sub-par. Tanks can group up adds and lock them down making things considerably easier.

Mojmir

is it possible that the boss still bugs out? I remember a few times doing that run and just would not go down and we had to reset.

Marto

Vangy wrote: »

Dymence wrote: »

Marto wrote: »

Again, I have ran the Grobull fight dozens of times. Trust me, I know what bad groups look like, and my group was definitely not bad. I was able to see rotations, AoEs, buffs, and the tank rarely, if ever, ran out of stamina. No one stood under the red AoEs and no one got overwhelmed because of poor CC or agro control.

But despite that. We COULD NOT kill the netches, despite everyone pulling a decent 20k, with me pulling 10k as a healer.

I find your story very, very hard to take at face value.

If you absolutely by no means can kill the boss, I don't know what to tell you man. Increased HP and resistances doesn't make things harder. It just makes things longer. If you can't do it because it's longer, it means your group was not good. No matter what you might believe.

^this.

Even if I assume your DD's only pull 20k AOE deeps (u said they could pull 20k which I think was single target) which is supppperrr low. And each netch had lets say 300k hp (they dont). That is 20k + 20k + 10k per second. 300k/ 50k = 6 seconds. Come on now. 6 seconds to aoe and kill a bunch of netches is fine and dandy. And this is the super conservative estimation. If you can pull 20k ST you should be able to triple that easily in AOE by just something as simple as dropping one or 2 aoe dots and mashing face on impulse or steel nado with 0 animation cancelling. Even if the boss had 5 million hp, and you only had a 10 second window each time he drops to DPS it would be 5mil/50k = 100 seconds. You'd need to drop the boss 10 times by killing the small jellies but he would die eventually. It might take 15 mins but still doable even with super bad DPS. Dont think this boss has an enrage mechanic. I dont think grobull has 5 mil hp tho. This fight is a lot easier with a tank tbh if ur DPS is sub-par. Tanks can group up adds and lock them down making things considerably easier.

Try it again after the patch. Netches do have 150-350k health each. And Grobull does have 5M health. (Used to be something like 2-3M, if I recall correctly)

Vangy

Marto wrote: »

Vangy wrote: »

Dymence wrote: »

Marto wrote: »

Again, I have ran the Grobull fight dozens of times. Trust me, I know what bad groups look like, and my group was definitely not bad. I was able to see rotations, AoEs, buffs, and the tank rarely, if ever, ran out of stamina. No one stood under the red AoEs and no one got overwhelmed because of poor CC or agro control.

But despite that. We COULD NOT kill the netches, despite everyone pulling a decent 20k, with me pulling 10k as a healer.

I find your story very, very hard to take at face value.

If you absolutely by no means can kill the boss, I don't know what to tell you man. Increased HP and resistances doesn't make things harder. It just makes things longer. If you can't do it because it's longer, it means your group was not good. No matter what you might believe.

^this.

Even if I assume your DD's only pull 20k AOE deeps (u said they could pull 20k which I think was single target) which is supppperrr low. And each netch had lets say 300k hp (they dont). That is 20k + 20k + 10k per second. 300k/ 50k = 6 seconds. Come on now. 6 seconds to aoe and kill a bunch of netches is fine and dandy. And this is the super conservative estimation. If you can pull 20k ST you should be able to triple that easily in AOE by just something as simple as dropping one or 2 aoe dots and mashing face on impulse or steel nado with 0 animation cancelling. Even if the boss had 5 million hp, and you only had a 10 second window each time he drops to DPS it would be 5mil/50k = 100 seconds. You'd need to drop the boss 10 times by killing the small jellies but he would die eventually. It might take 15 mins but still doable even with super bad DPS. Dont think this boss has an enrage mechanic. I dont think grobull has 5 mil hp tho. This fight is a lot easier with a tank tbh if ur DPS is sub-par. Tanks can group up adds and lock them down making things considerably easier.

Try it again after the patch. Netches do have 150-350k health each. And Grobull does have 5M health. (Used to be something like 2-3M, if I recall correctly)

Well i did do the vICP post patch where the boss before the wardens have a collective total of more than 10 mil hp.... It was a painfully drawn out fight but still do-able. I cant imagine grobull being harder than this.... I did do this grobull fight post-patch as well and nothing seemed very different to me. Maybe its cos I was in a guild group.

Marto

DarkenedHour wrote: »

3. vet II dungeons are not meant for pugging, 3 cp 200 friends on ts or discord is WAY better than 3 max cp

Except that they are.

Vet II Dungeon have always been puggable. No patch should change that.

Zenimax should not take existing content and restrict it to 90% of the playerbase. That's what DLC dungeons like vCoS and vRoM are for.

Dubhliam

Marto wrote: »

DarkenedHour wrote: »

3. vet II dungeons are not meant for pugging, 3 cp 200 friends on ts or discord is WAY better than 3 max cp

Except that they are.

Vet II Dungeon have always been puggable. No patch should change that.

Zenimax should not take existing content and restrict it to 90% of the playerbase. That's what DLC dungeons like vCoS and vRoM are for.

And this was everything that was wrong with ESO difficulty pre patch.

Accept this wonderful new change and move on.
If you want to PUG dungeons, go on normal (which also got a buff, and they are no longer insultingly easy).
If you want to do veteran dungeons, get social. Seriously, this is an MMO.
Do you even have a guild BRUH?

IwakuraLain42

Dubhliam wrote: »

Marto wrote: »

DarkenedHour wrote: »

3. vet II dungeons are not meant for pugging, 3 cp 200 friends on ts or discord is WAY better than 3 max cp

Except that they are.

Vet II Dungeon have always been puggable. No patch should change that.

Zenimax should not take existing content and restrict it to 90% of the playerbase. That's what DLC dungeons like vCoS and vRoM are for.

And this was everything that was wrong with ESO difficulty pre patch.

Accept this wonderful new change and move on.
If you want to PUG dungeons, go on normal (which also got a buff, and they are no longer insultingly easy).
If you want to do veteran dungeons, get social. Seriously, this is an MMO.
Do you even have a guild BRUH?

If these (completely undocumented) changes stand and go live then I can guarantee you that the game will loose players fast. Running pledges will be nearly impossible for most players (and running them on Normal is useless, you won't get a Helmet, so why should you run a pledge anyway ?). And asking to join a guild ? Not everyone has or wants to join a guild and up to now it was perfectly possible to PUG most of the veteran dungeons.

Looks like the developers have listened to much to the "elite" players claiming the game was to easy. This really takes away content that a good portion of the player base was comfortable able to do and placed it the nearly impossible realm for them.

Fischblut

I used to run many normal and vet dungeons almost every day before OT, and available pledges on few characters, I loved this activity... It was possible to do 4 dds runs, no tank runs, 2 man runs with friend... After update I don't like dungeons anymore, maybe I'll return to them if difficulty will be changed back That was only thing I was afraid of in OT update. I'm glad I have all old monster sets I need, cause I wouldn't be able to get them now. Back to mob grind overworld, at least now they can drop some useful things...

Marto

Fischblut wrote: »

I used to run many normal and vet dungeons almost every day before OT, and available pledges on few characters, I loved this activity... It was possible to do 4 dds runs, no tank runs, 2 man runs with friend... After update I don't like dungeons anymore, maybe I'll return to them if difficulty will be changed back That was only thing I was afraid of in OT update. I'm glad I have all old monster sets I need, cause I wouldn't be able to get them now. Back to mob grind overworld, at least now they can drop some useful things...

This is also why the update to dungeons seems so out of place.

The overworld seems to be 10-20% harder (with the exception of world bosses and public dungeons), yet the Vet II dungeons have nearly trippled in difficulty. They're not impossible, but now require gold trial gear to reach those insane numbers.