Vet Darkshade Caverns II (Or any Vet II dungeon, really)

Marto

Is it possible anymore? I just went in that dungeon with a decent, +300cp group, with a very healthy amount of AoE DPS...

We can't beat it. It's impossible. Enemies have double the resistance they used to. The small netches have 150k health, the big netches have 350k, each time the boss dropped to the ground we managed to deal 6-8% of its health as damage. That is with double and sometimes triple meteors.

I want to say I'm an experienced healer. I've seen good groups, bad groups, and I have tackled every single dungeon in the game successfully. That is, until now, where number II dungeons seem to be absolutely impossible.

That is, unless you have a full group of cp561 with trial gear, gold rings, maelstrom weapons... you name it.

You can't balance a game to cater to the top 5% better players on your game. Please Zenimax, half the difficulty of Vet II dungeons. I know you're scared of powercreep, but tripling the amount of health enemies have is not the solution.

Valykc

Grobull the Unkillable.

inf.toniceb17_ESO

Honestly i'm surprised there's so few posts about changes they have made to hp and resistances. I've seen groups who couldn't kill ghosts in CoH2 fast enough so we were getting owerwhelmed. Or Valkyn Skoria. 5.5 mil HP and 5 platforms...or 3 platforms and 7 mil HP on HM. I wander how many DDs can pull this off? I haven't seen any of those yet.

Marto

In my opinion:

• Normal Dungeons should be achievable for any level 20 group
• Veteran Dungeons should be achievable for any CP40 group
• Maelstrom Arena should be achievable for any CP160 plapyer
• Vet Maelstrom Arena should be achievable for a well equipped CP500 player
• Normal Trials should be achievable for any CP300 group
• Vet Trials should be achievable for a well equipped, CP500 group

The current Vet II dungeons seem to be aimed at Vet Trial players, in terms of difficulty... that is not ok.

Milvan

I managed most of them, after a few tries on some, less on other. Most one shots mechanics are easily avoided (The boss animation is like "Look, I'm going hit you, almost there, wait a little bit more, dude when this blow lands you are totally screwed, hey, wait, where you going? *MISS*). We just need to mind them more than we used to.

Marto

Milvan wrote: »

I managed most of them, after a few tries on some, less on other. Most one shots mechanics are easily avoided (The boss animation is like "Look, I'm going hit you, almost there, wait a little bit more, dude when this blow lands you are totally screwed, hey, wait, where you going? *MISS*). We just need to mind them more than we used to.

I'm actually fine with the damage that mobs deal currently. Makes you far more wary of getting hit by the big guys, and makes the tanking more valuable.

What I'm not ok is with the MASSIVE ammount of health and resistance even trash mobs have, making every fight either a long boring tedium, or an impossible DPS race.

Khaos_Bane

Maybe you should all consult with Lord in the post below. He can solo Vet dungeons because he is awesome and they are easy.


https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/296415/too-many-531s-without-a-clue/p1

rhapsodious

inf.toniceb17_ESO wrote: »

Or Valkyn Skoria. 5.5 mil HP and 5 platforms...or 3 platforms and 7 mil HP on HM. I wander how many DDs can pull this off? I haven't seen any of those yet.

I don't remember his health going up with HM? Could be wrong, though. My group got him to around 10% before he broke the third platform; it got a little hectic there but we pulled it off.

The vet dungeon mechanics are unchanged, AFAIK, so if you knew the mechanics before it'll just take longer to deal with bosses. Penetration is the meta, so try going for that as well. And applying Major Fracture/Breach (the S&B taunt morph that I use does that, not that I can remember the name of the morph for the life of me) helps a lot.

I do have 561 CP, but I'm still rocking Hundings/Agility/Veli! Because RNG hates me.

What's your group's average DPS? Dumping 2 or 3 Meteors doesn't really matter if they're all hitting like wet noodles, after all.

Eleusian

So basically they are pigeon holing support roles into Alkosh & other trial sets and furthering the fact sharpened is the only useable trait. Really fun stuff

Shanjijri

rhapsodious wrote: »

Penetration is the meta, so try going for that as well.

Noobie question: so it is better to spend points into Piercing/Spell Erosion instead of Mighty/Elemental Expert?

inf.toniceb17_ESO

rhapsodious wrote: »

inf.toniceb17_ESO wrote: »

Or Valkyn Skoria. 5.5 mil HP and 5 platforms...or 3 platforms and 7 mil HP on HM. I wander how many DDs can pull this off? I haven't seen any of those yet.

I don't remember his health going up with HM? Could be wrong, though. My group got him to around 10% before he broke the third platform; it got a little hectic there but we pulled it off.

The vet dungeon mechanics are unchanged, AFAIK, so if you knew the mechanics before it'll just take longer to deal with bosses. Penetration is the meta, so try going for that as well. And applying Major Fracture/Breach (the S&B taunt morph that I use does that, not that I can remember the name of the morph for the life of me) helps a lot.

I do have 561 CP, but I'm still rocking Hundings/Agility/Veli! Because RNG hates me.

What's your group's average DPS? Dumping 2 or 3 Meteors doesn't really matter if they're all hitting like wet noodles, after all.

Well truth to be told i haven't seen Skorya myself yet. It was my guildie tank who i play with a lot. He desided to pug CoA2 when i didn't have time to play and then told me a sad story about a team that horribly failed HM and then they couldn't even kill him w/o reading the scroll for 3 hours before everyone just gave up. Mechanics indeed didn't change but HP and resistance changes make a lot of trouble for DDs who arent exactly up for a DPS race. If you take too much time on things like Skoria or Nereineth you are pretty much SoL. Or at least that is what i've seen after the releaee of 1T. Well mb i shouldn't have used grouping tool but still there are high CP ppl who can't do anything now. It didnt happen so often before.

rhapsodious

Griffe wrote: »

rhapsodious wrote: »

Penetration is the meta, so try going for that as well.

Noobie question: so it is better to spend points into Piercing/Spell Erosion instead of Mighty/Elemental Expert?

I don't put any of my CP into penetration, I let gear and skills do that.

I split mine up like so as a stam DD:

Mighty - ~80 points until the increase goes from 0.2% to 0.1% (I think that's 82)
Thaumaturge: ~60 points, I think at another increase threshold
Precise Strikes: The rest

I'm not the greatest player in the world or anything and I don't know what the cool kids are doing these days, but it ends up working pretty well for me for PVE.

Oompuh

As a console player I can't comment on the new difficulty, but any increase in difficulty is welcome for me due to the jokes they call veteran dungeons on the live server

Shanjijri

@rhapsodious Thanks for the tips. I was just curious if penetration would be better than more damage with One Tamriel.

vyndral13preub18_ESO

I think a couple people might start running some more health. Seen a lot of dd getting once shot these last couple days.

JKith

I'm happy to see i'm not the only one!

I did my usual daily quick Random Normal... and it seemed WAY harder than it used to be. Regular mobs have 150k to 250k health on normal?? I don't remember it being so much. We did finish it of course,.. but it almost felt like a vet instead of a quicky norm we usually do.

The damage they give seems higher too,.. i was killed by two arrows from an archer in a regular mob... never remember that happening on a normal....

Not saying I dont' like it,.. but definitely something changed.

Ashtaris

Most of the Vet II dungeons are doable by most groups except those that were considered difficult in the past, i.e. Vet Darkshade, CoH, and CoA. And even though previously even though they were harder, they we doable with a group of good players with decent equipment. Now it seems they made those dungeons only doable by excellent players wearing legendary. I don't think I'll be bothering doing pugs for those because it would be just an exercise in frustration.

mtwiggz

Haven't found the content that much more difficult personally, yet I haven't experienced all of the updated dungeons.

Realistically something had to be done to increase the difficulty of these dungeons. As most, if not all, where easily completable by as few as 2 people. Let alone a group of 4 DPS steamrolling them in a matter of minutes.

C0wrex

wat u nid is gud penetration ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)

mrs_gibbs

My pug group was having trouble with veteran Vollenfell last night, and didn't have enough patience/skill to beat hard mode. It seemed a LOT harder than it used to. Getting one shotted over and over. I'm used to two manning it on normal with no deaths and no trouble. Granted I know it was veteran, but it seemed like quite a large jump in difficulty compared to other veteran dungeons in the past...

I have to agree that it seems that the difficulty of all dungeons were changed. Not that it is necessarily a bad thing. But it was getting quite frustrating. Especially when you are used to soloing or completing the majority of dungeons with two, and now you are getting wiped repeatedly with a full group.

IwakuraLain42

Whats really disturbing is the fact that these changes were not mentioned in the patch notes and also weren't on the pts. In fact I remember that one developer mentioned in one of the threads that the resistance changes shouldn't affect the dungeon.

I really would like to see a comment by ZOS if these changes were done deliberately or if this is a bug. Anyhow, it leaves a very bad impression.

Auricle

I have no problem with the vet version being a bit trickier. Managed CoH/CoA with a 300 cp average PUG just fine and haven't had any trouble with the others. My main problem is that the most of the vet versions of old normal dungeons are BORING. The fights take forever, but they aren't hard and the mechanics aren't interesting. The HP on bosses is enormous, but there is no real threat, just a time sink. Doing Elden Hollow I with a PUG, we all joked about putting on a show to watch as we whittled away at the last boss' massive HP pool. Not difficult, no dps check, just long and slow.

Buffler

Im glad its harder. Vet dungeons were a total joke. As mentioned above, i used to grab 3 mates on our dps and steamroll vet coa in under 20mins killing skoria on the first platform. Thats supposed to be the hardest non dlc dungeon

Milvan

Buffler wrote: »

Im glad its harder. Vet dungeons were a total joke. As mentioned above, i used to grab 3 mates on our dps and steamroll vet coa in under 20mins killing skoria on the first platform. Thats supposed to be the hardest non dlc dungeon

I was thought that Vault of Madness should be the hardest of non-dlc dungeons.

mrs_gibbs

I wanted to add that when I did all the normal trials I did not see any noticeable differences.

Dubhliam

inf.toniceb17_ESO wrote: »

Honestly i'm surprised there's so few posts about changes they have made to hp and resistances. I've seen groups who couldn't kill ghosts in CoH2 fast enough so we were getting owerwhelmed. Or Valkyn Skoria. 5.5 mil HP and 5 platforms...or 3 platforms and 7 mil HP on HM. I wander how many DDs can pull this off? I haven't seen any of those yet.

I managed to kill Skoria on HM as a DK damage dealer.

2xMolag Kena + 5xJulianos + 3xWillpower with Torug's Pact DW swords on one bar, and a simple Prismatic staff on the backbar (reward from the FG story quest)
18k DPS at best.

DId not even bother to take the Thief mundus, I still had the Atronarch from when I tank.

Do I consider myself an elite?
Not at the slightest. I could do far better damage if I were to bother min maxing into the DK meta.

Was it challenging?
It was nice. I actually like the "number 2" versions better, even if I have beaten them a thousand times.
Why? Because they have meaningful mechanics.

The new vet dungeons simply have better stats.
Bleh.
This only makes for long and tedious fights. No challenge at all.
Unlike the old (currently number 2) dungeons, where almost every boss has some kind of a mechanic tied to it.

The sets can be farmed on normal.
You get the same keys on normal.
You can buy helmets in Cyrodiil for gold.
For everyone else, you have the incentive (veteran modes) to Git Good.

Dubhliam

A tip for Grobull:

STOP TRYING TO DO DARKSHADE WITHOUT A TANK!

A good tank is one hell of a difference in this particular boss fight.
A good tank will root small netches, and taunt big netches, then lump them all together for some nice AoEs.

I can't believe this fight still breaks PUGs.

AlnilamE

I ran BC II in vet the other day and I liked the new difficulty. You have to pay attention to the mechanics and such.

OP, your description of the Grobul fight sounds like the first few times I went in there. If we got him down 10% when he was down, we considered ourselves lucky.

WuffyCerulei

Khaos_Bane wrote: »

Maybe you should all consult with Lord in the post below. He can solo Vet dungeons because he is awesome and they are easy.


https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/296415/too-many-531s-without-a-clue/p1

I dunno...the old vet dungeons really got beefed up and are harder than before. You'd definitely need a group to do em.

WuffyCerulei

The Grobull fight is tedious when you're relatively new to the fight. Once you've done it a few times, you get the hang of it. AoEs are the main deeps, but you also gotta have single-target deeps and an ultimate ready for when the fat jellyfish drops. Meteor, dawnbreaker, elemental storm, storm atronach, standard, soul tether, overload, and nova are all good ultimates to drop when he does. And whenever he's up with the adds, just be aware of where he ports. The AoE under him can hurt.

idk

Marto wrote: »

In my opinion:

• Normal Dungeons should be achievable for any level 20 group
• Veteran Dungeons should be achievable for any CP40 group
• Maelstrom Arena should be achievable for any CP160 plapyer
• Vet Maelstrom Arena should be achievable for a well equipped CP500 player
• Normal Trials should be achievable for any CP300 group
• Vet Trials should be achievable for a well equipped, CP500 group

The current Vet II dungeons seem to be aimed at Vet Trial players, in terms of difficulty... that is not ok.

@Marto

For the most part it is. I've not done darkshade caverns since the update but most of what you said is how it currently is though skill also plays a major factor in success.

Think about this for a moment. There are CP capped players that struggle to breach 10k. A well geared group of CP capped players averaging 10k dps or even 15k dps should not expect to be able to clear a vet trial or vMA/vDSA. This does not even get into managing mechanics of staying out of red.