Too Many 531's without a clue.

greylox

Some people rush dungeons for speed achievement but they should say if doing so.

Asardes

greylox wrote: »

Some people rush dungeons for speed achievement but they should say if doing so.

Or they have run them countless times before, they are bored of them, and they only do the pledges to level their undaunted on an alt, get the keys to get monster shoulders and farm the head. This is certainly my case. But I usually ask the people if they have quest, if they want to do all bosses etc.

kylewwefan

Bobby_V_Rockit wrote: »

Lemme ask you this, as I find it to be the most important aspect. How, do we know if we are reasonable DPS or not?

I mean, most players have not done vMSA but I have completed all non-dlc vet dungeons (inc vCOA) with zero death runs and almost exclusively run with PUGS. I find normal trials to be painfully boring due to the ease (my first SO run was with a group of 7 and it was a zero death run). But I still consider myself mediocre at best.

Without relying on the fabled bloodspawn test, is there an accurate basis for comparison that we can say "you know what, I'm not too bad and am ready to tackle harder content now"?

The first trash mobs in WGT/ any vet dungeon should melt. If the trash fights take more than a minute, the DPS is very low and unorganized.

The flesh atronach after the overfiend in ICP is also a good DPS check. Your group should easily take the mob out in under a minute before he enrages. If not the DPS is low and you will struggle badly through the rest of the dungeon.

Asardes

Pure DPS achieved in zero risk conditions is not very relevant. There are plenty of DDs who claim to do 45K on this or that monster, but in harder fights with more complex mechanics they push daisies for most of the time, thus having exactly 0 DPS, because they don't know how to get out of the red, block, interrupt. I've never met people with Stormproof title failing at that, because from what I've seen VMSA requires knowing well all of the above. The hardest fights in this game are not actually DPS checks, but mechanics that require good group coordination. And that's a good thing, because DPS checks are prone to be broken by power creep, mainly from CP at has happened to most dungeons before one Tamriel. Before the update most people weren't even aware of some mechanics, because the boss was dead so fast they did not have time to play.

Alagras

hrothbern wrote: »

Alagras wrote: »

What we need is a good in-game ESOpedia, and some well-thought tutorials, sort of "master of arms" quests. And you'll see average player getting much better.

Some people google for builds, guides, etc, for others it feels like a job and they won't. So unless they have good guildies infos must come from game itelf. Currently they don't.

Everyone would benefit from that, players playing better = having more fun = more ppl playing = more money

+1

And here is the ESO Forum for tutorials:
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/categories/player-guides
Perhaps some of the real good players can write something down or make vids with easy to get gear and without CP and 160 CP.

And here is the forum for players asking for Help:
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/categories/players-helping-players

True, some players do this job Zenimax doesn't. I still believe that, if such guides and tutorials were integrated in the game itself, much more players would use it and the average level would seriously go up.

Not sure how exactly it could be done, but it should.

Doctordarkspawn

Bobby_V_Rockit wrote: »

Lemme ask you this, as I find it to be the most important aspect. How, do we know if we are reasonable DPS or not?

I mean, most players have not done vMSA but I have completed all non-dlc vet dungeons (inc vCOA) with zero death runs and almost exclusively run with PUGS. I find normal trials to be painfully boring due to the ease (my first SO run was with a group of 7 and it was a zero death run). But I still consider myself mediocre at best.

Without relying on the fabled bloodspawn test, is there an accurate basis for comparison that we can say "you know what, I'm not too bad and am ready to tackle harder content now"?

Download FTC. Do you do at least ten K DPS? Then your fine for dungeons, somewhat. Anything lower, and get the *** out.

But the other suggestions are good ones. The first ICP trash, the overfiend, their great DPS checks. if your DPS has trouble with them, their not good DPS.

Asardes

The game help, including the tool tips for various skills are actually pretty well written. The problem is that nobody bothers to read those because most overland content is so easy that can be completed in trash gear, spamming light and sometimes doing heavy attacks with the same weapon. Then people get into dungeons with that kind of "expertise" and they get rekt. At which point they come on the forum and start whining the content is too hard and should be made easier. One was claiming he can't kill even the wolves in Glenumbra after the game has been scaled with One Tamriel (most certainly trolling though).

Bobby_V_Rockit

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

Bobby_V_Rockit wrote: »

Lemme ask you this, as I find it to be the most important aspect. How, do we know if we are reasonable DPS or not?

I mean, most players have not done vMSA but I have completed all non-dlc vet dungeons (inc vCOA) with zero death runs and almost exclusively run with PUGS. I find normal trials to be painfully boring due to the ease (my first SO run was with a group of 7 and it was a zero death run). But I still consider myself mediocre at best.

Without relying on the fabled bloodspawn test, is there an accurate basis for comparison that we can say "you know what, I'm not too bad and am ready to tackle harder content now"?

Download FTC. Do you do at least ten K DPS? Then your fine for dungeons, somewhat. Anything lower, and get the *** out.

But the other suggestions are good ones. The first ICP trash, the overfiend, their great DPS checks. if your DPS has trouble with them, their not good DPS.

On console, so no addons. I have no idea what my upper and lower averages are for DPS. But I assume its around 10-15k, I still think there could be a practice mode type system, like every fighting game ever has. You know, test out rotations and armour on a live, albiet unkillable, enemy to get some approxinate values.

kylewwefan

You can try slimecraw the big crocodile on. On normal wayrest sewers. I think he has a good bit of hp and you can solo it, so don't need to drag a whole group there. You can turn on the numbers instead of percent now to see what his HP is. Time the fight to divide the starting hp number by time give you rough estimate of your DPS. Same as bloodspawn I think but you can solo this one. It's also a great place to farm rubedo leather.

MattT1988

Pangnirtung wrote: »

What's with all the hate?

Everyone plays the game for different reasons.

Everyone has different abilities and disabilities in real life.

Don't like the way that I play? Tamriel is a huge place. Rather than focus on what bothers you because someone doesn't play the way you want them to, move on.

It is wrong to assume that when you join a group that everyone is like you. Vive le difference.

While I'm 100% behind 'play as you like to play'. When your running group content, I'm sorry but 'play as you like' becomes a lot less important. You need to think of the other people in your group. I'm not saying everyone needs to run BiS, far from it, but you do need to run skills and gear that help you in the role you queued for in the dungeon. How is it fair to the other three people in your group when you queue as a tank running light armour, staff and no taunt? You doing solo content? Knock yourself out, run whatever the hell you want, but the moment you join a dungeon team, the team has to come first. You don't want to do that? Then do everyone a favour and stay the hell out of group content.

Bobby_V_Rockit

46 seconds to kill Slimecraw takin it semi-easy to see what lower end average DPS is.

Anyone know how much health he has? I'm console so cant display numbers on enemy bars (that I know of).

IcyDeadPeople

kylewwefan wrote: »

Are everyone buying max level accounts and playing how they want? How do you get there and have no clue?

I'm at max CP, been playing since early access and still have absolutely no clue about dungeons and trials. So far I've only done a couple of pledges since ESO launch.

Never been much interested in that side of the game I suppose. Only started acquiring a couple monster helms when they appeared at the PVP vendor.

Asardes

Well, playing only PvE or only PvP is an option some players take. I started going in PvP with my main just 4 months ago and I don't PvP regularly. I haven't entered Cyrodiil in the last 2 weeks. I'm not very good at PvP, I have no specialized gear and just play enough to get maybe 500K AP per campaign. But I do the dungeons and crafting writs each day. So I consider myself mostly a PvE player. It's nothing wrong in that.

kylewwefan

Bobby_V_Rockit wrote: »

46 seconds to kill Slimecraw takin it semi-easy to see what lower end average DPS is.

Anyone know how much health he has? I'm console so cant display numbers on enemy bars (that I know of).

After much searching around, it looks like he has right around 700k so that puts you at about 15kDPS. I think that's not bad. To get much better, you'd have to really think out all them skills and rotation, weapon pots, etc...it would probably feel like more of a chore to reach big numbers

Bobby_V_Rockit

kylewwefan wrote: »

Bobby_V_Rockit wrote: »

46 seconds to kill Slimecraw takin it semi-easy to see what lower end average DPS is.

Anyone know how much health he has? I'm console so cant display numbers on enemy bars (that I know of).

After much searching around, it looks like he has right around 700k so that puts you at about 15kDPS. I think that's not bad. To get much better, you'd have to really think out all them skills and rotation, weapon pots, etc...it would probably feel like more of a chore to reach big numbers

Thats what I found and guestimated too, cheers for checking, that was without using the rearming trap on the adds, probably not keeping up endless hail as much as I should, shooting star vs. dawnbreaker, etc. That was more or less to get my minimum DPS.

I'll be sure to spread the word to others in game about that as a good test.

Hot_spur

Is there a list of abbreviations somewhere so I can figure out half the sh*t you guys are talking about?

kylewwefan

Hot_spur wrote: »

Is there a list of abbreviations somewhere so I can figure out half the sh*t you guys are talking about?

IDK? LOL!

DPS-damage per second
HPS-heals per second
DOT- damage over time
BiS-best in slot
FOTM- flavor of the month
Meta- tried and tested gear combinations that give favorable results
IKR- I know right

I'm probably missing a few, but these ones come up a lot. I just recently found out the FOTM one

Hot_spur

Hahahaha

Seriously, half this stuff is like a foreign language.

I've been playing a year and sometimes I just wonder wth I just read.

As to the main topic of the post, I'm just a little over 400CP, and I get killed occasionally, but I try to help out my groups as best I can. I only dps, as I don't know how to heal, and I'm not strong enough to tank. I've never been kicked, but my toon is gorgeous, so I think the guys just want me around for eye candy.

GrimMauKin

There's nothing actually wrong with not being a skilled player. I've been playing on and off casually since day one; I've got a high level character but I'm still rather rubbish (in the real world I enjoy cycling and I'm not very good at that either).

Its too common in this game, to talk negative about elitists the elite. Its like a bad thing here.

There, fixed that for you; to my mind there's a world of difference between an elite player and an elitist player (although they're not mutually exclusive); Tamriel has plenty of both.

Taranthula

Asardes wrote: »

I've actually seen many players with CP400+ with major issues, both in terms of gameplay and attitude. Players that use ineffective skills and/or skill rotation, or even have no rotation whatsoever, that ignore mechanics, even when explained in detail before fight - I actually ask people if they ran the dungeon before if I see them making blatant mistakes and explain the fight in detail. But some take issue with that or don't even bother to respond on chat, and from their subsequent actions it's pretty clear they don't actually care about what I explain them. I simply leave such groups because I don't have the time to waste with morons.

I've seen plenty of CP400+ Templar "healers" spamming BoL, never slotting HoTs - ritual and combat prayer are no brainers - never throwing shards or doing repentance while running with 2 stamina DD and a stamina tank despite numerous requests to do so. I've seen high CP count DK tanks using no CCs (talons, chains, cinder storm/caltrops), using no group buffs, and obviously running out resources while taunting just the biggest mob and then perma-blocking. I've seen high CP DDs hitting like a wet noodle. And all of the above just standing in AoE and getting burned.

A concrete example: I had a healer for a VWGT pledge. Throughout the dungeon I was telling him to change his skills to more HoTs, to throw shards and repent. He didn't listen, didn't even bother to say something on the chat. He was dead for most of the Inhibitor fight because somehow he stood in the geysers, and even while he was alive he didn't use the proper skills; we were just skilled enough and had self heals to barely get us trough that. At Kena though he died again and again at the lightning wave because he didn't block. When I saw him getting hit in the face by the lightning waves the 6th or 7th time and wiping the group because he didn't even attempt to block that despite the fact I told him to specifically, I simply left. Some people simply don't develop survival instincts in this game, and on top of that they utter jerks for not properly doing the support role despite being told specifically which skills to use by the other group members. Healer should be called support in this game.

This is due to the fact that many people grinded their CP solo/duo, then grinded their chars to level 50 using the same simple skill combo, or even just the AoE button, against weak enemies that had no mechanics. And then they come to dungeons, do the easier ones because probably they can still pull enough AoE to steamroll the mobs and the bosses on easy mode. But then they go into DLC dungeons and get rekt hard. They are getting rekt even in older dungeons that had vet and hard mode added in One Tamriel because bosses have more health and some of them have one-shot attack now. And then you see a part of that brain-dead crowd come on the forum and whine that content X and Y be nerfed because their cognitive functions have atrophied to such an extent from all that grinding that they can't handle it.

I can play both as a tank and a DD on my main, as I have a full stamina build and adequate gear for both. My rotation as DD is not that complex, and yes, it includes wrecking blow for the empower. But for maximum damage and sustain should be alternated with heavy attack to activate the follow up passive and build ultimate. Dawnbreaker initial damage gets empowered, so that should be activated right after a wrecking blow. At less than 30% executioner with heavy attack is a good combo. For bow light attacks should be part of the rotation, for the hawk eye passive, and ultimate buildup. So if the DD did a few light attacks, then poison arrow and endless hail (AoE) or focused aim (single target), and then switched to melee bar that's actually a valid rotation. I use those all the time and still get decent enough DPS to finish hard mode on all dungeons, including VWGT and VICP as DD.

+ This...

I actually got called out on a normal dungeon as bow user, because I weaved in light attacks. I told him that my LA's were buffing my damage due to hawk eye, and that I did use focused aim and poison arrow. Then he was like "k..." - not even a "oh, sorry - didn't see those being used. My bad"...

Anyways - my only concern right now, is the heavy attack animation cancelling. I can cancel LA easily. But the HA ones, I struggle a lot.

Any suggestions?

leepalmer95

Taranthula wrote: »

Asardes wrote: »

I've actually seen many players with CP400+ with major issues, both in terms of gameplay and attitude. Players that use ineffective skills and/or skill rotation, or even have no rotation whatsoever, that ignore mechanics, even when explained in detail before fight - I actually ask people if they ran the dungeon before if I see them making blatant mistakes and explain the fight in detail. But some take issue with that or don't even bother to respond on chat, and from their subsequent actions it's pretty clear they don't actually care about what I explain them. I simply leave such groups because I don't have the time to waste with morons.

I've seen plenty of CP400+ Templar "healers" spamming BoL, never slotting HoTs - ritual and combat prayer are no brainers - never throwing shards or doing repentance while running with 2 stamina DD and a stamina tank despite numerous requests to do so. I've seen high CP count DK tanks using no CCs (talons, chains, cinder storm/caltrops), using no group buffs, and obviously running out resources while taunting just the biggest mob and then perma-blocking. I've seen high CP DDs hitting like a wet noodle. And all of the above just standing in AoE and getting burned.

A concrete example: I had a healer for a VWGT pledge. Throughout the dungeon I was telling him to change his skills to more HoTs, to throw shards and repent. He didn't listen, didn't even bother to say something on the chat. He was dead for most of the Inhibitor fight because somehow he stood in the geysers, and even while he was alive he didn't use the proper skills; we were just skilled enough and had self heals to barely get us trough that. At Kena though he died again and again at the lightning wave because he didn't block. When I saw him getting hit in the face by the lightning waves the 6th or 7th time and wiping the group because he didn't even attempt to block that despite the fact I told him to specifically, I simply left. Some people simply don't develop survival instincts in this game, and on top of that they utter jerks for not properly doing the support role despite being told specifically which skills to use by the other group members. Healer should be called support in this game.

This is due to the fact that many people grinded their CP solo/duo, then grinded their chars to level 50 using the same simple skill combo, or even just the AoE button, against weak enemies that had no mechanics. And then they come to dungeons, do the easier ones because probably they can still pull enough AoE to steamroll the mobs and the bosses on easy mode. But then they go into DLC dungeons and get rekt hard. They are getting rekt even in older dungeons that had vet and hard mode added in One Tamriel because bosses have more health and some of them have one-shot attack now. And then you see a part of that brain-dead crowd come on the forum and whine that content X and Y be nerfed because their cognitive functions have atrophied to such an extent from all that grinding that they can't handle it.

I can play both as a tank and a DD on my main, as I have a full stamina build and adequate gear for both. My rotation as DD is not that complex, and yes, it includes wrecking blow for the empower. But for maximum damage and sustain should be alternated with heavy attack to activate the follow up passive and build ultimate. Dawnbreaker initial damage gets empowered, so that should be activated right after a wrecking blow. At less than 30% executioner with heavy attack is a good combo. For bow light attacks should be part of the rotation, for the hawk eye passive, and ultimate buildup. So if the DD did a few light attacks, then poison arrow and endless hail (AoE) or focused aim (single target), and then switched to melee bar that's actually a valid rotation. I use those all the time and still get decent enough DPS to finish hard mode on all dungeons, including VWGT and VICP as DD.

+ This...

I actually got called out on a normal dungeon as bow user, because I weaved in light attacks. I told him that my LA's were buffing my damage due to hawk eye, and that I did use focused aim and poison arrow. Then he was like "k..." - not even a "oh, sorry - didn't see those being used. My bad"...

Anyways - my only concern right now, is the heavy attack animation cancelling. I can cancel LA easily. But the HA ones, I struggle a lot.

Any suggestions?

Bow dd huh.

alexkdd99

Daemons_Bane wrote: »

Taylor_MB wrote: »

It's amazing seeing how bad some max level characters are.

I've breezed through vWGT and vICP with pug groups 200-300cp (561 myself), then I''ve been group with max level players who don't have a clue. It makes people suggesting adding a "CP Filter" to dungeon finder totally ridiculous.

I think it's a mistake to call them bad.. They might just not care as much about BiS, perfect skills and rotations as you do

Nothing has to be "perfect" to do any vet dungeon. You really just need to use your brain just a little bit.

If you are max cp and can't hold your own in a vet dungeon, you are bad.

SolarCat02

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Taranthula wrote: »

Asardes wrote: »

I've actually seen many players with CP400+ with major issues, both in terms of gameplay and attitude. Players that use ineffective skills and/or skill rotation, or even have no rotation whatsoever, that ignore mechanics, even when explained in detail before fight - I actually ask people if they ran the dungeon before if I see them making blatant mistakes and explain the fight in detail. But some take issue with that or don't even bother to respond on chat, and from their subsequent actions it's pretty clear they don't actually care about what I explain them. I simply leave such groups because I don't have the time to waste with morons.

I've seen plenty of CP400+ Templar "healers" spamming BoL, never slotting HoTs - ritual and combat prayer are no brainers - never throwing shards or doing repentance while running with 2 stamina DD and a stamina tank despite numerous requests to do so. I've seen high CP count DK tanks using no CCs (talons, chains, cinder storm/caltrops), using no group buffs, and obviously running out resources while taunting just the biggest mob and then perma-blocking. I've seen high CP DDs hitting like a wet noodle. And all of the above just standing in AoE and getting burned.

A concrete example: I had a healer for a VWGT pledge. Throughout the dungeon I was telling him to change his skills to more HoTs, to throw shards and repent. He didn't listen, didn't even bother to say something on the chat. He was dead for most of the Inhibitor fight because somehow he stood in the geysers, and even while he was alive he didn't use the proper skills; we were just skilled enough and had self heals to barely get us trough that. At Kena though he died again and again at the lightning wave because he didn't block. When I saw him getting hit in the face by the lightning waves the 6th or 7th time and wiping the group because he didn't even attempt to block that despite the fact I told him to specifically, I simply left. Some people simply don't develop survival instincts in this game, and on top of that they utter jerks for not properly doing the support role despite being told specifically which skills to use by the other group members. Healer should be called support in this game.

This is due to the fact that many people grinded their CP solo/duo, then grinded their chars to level 50 using the same simple skill combo, or even just the AoE button, against weak enemies that had no mechanics. And then they come to dungeons, do the easier ones because probably they can still pull enough AoE to steamroll the mobs and the bosses on easy mode. But then they go into DLC dungeons and get rekt hard. They are getting rekt even in older dungeons that had vet and hard mode added in One Tamriel because bosses have more health and some of them have one-shot attack now. And then you see a part of that brain-dead crowd come on the forum and whine that content X and Y be nerfed because their cognitive functions have atrophied to such an extent from all that grinding that they can't handle it.

I can play both as a tank and a DD on my main, as I have a full stamina build and adequate gear for both. My rotation as DD is not that complex, and yes, it includes wrecking blow for the empower. But for maximum damage and sustain should be alternated with heavy attack to activate the follow up passive and build ultimate. Dawnbreaker initial damage gets empowered, so that should be activated right after a wrecking blow. At less than 30% executioner with heavy attack is a good combo. For bow light attacks should be part of the rotation, for the hawk eye passive, and ultimate buildup. So if the DD did a few light attacks, then poison arrow and endless hail (AoE) or focused aim (single target), and then switched to melee bar that's actually a valid rotation. I use those all the time and still get decent enough DPS to finish hard mode on all dungeons, including VWGT and VICP as DD.

+ This...

I actually got called out on a normal dungeon as bow user, because I weaved in light attacks. I told him that my LA's were buffing my damage due to hawk eye, and that I did use focused aim and poison arrow. Then he was like "k..." - not even a "oh, sorry - didn't see those being used. My bad"...

Anyways - my only concern right now, is the heavy attack animation cancelling. I can cancel LA easily. But the HA ones, I struggle a lot.

Any suggestions?

Bow dd huh.

There's nothing wrong with bow, provided you know how to use it well. Having access to ranged attacks is very useful in mobile fights especially if the boss teleports a lot, it's got some useful damage over time with the poison injection, it lets groups spread out more for fights like the first real boss of veteran Spindleclutch (so you don't end up with two people in the circle), and it's got some useful tools for controlling and rooting mobs.

Sure, the DPS is lower than a 2 hander (single target) or dual wield (AoE), but the bow definitely has its place, and it can really shine if the user knows it well.

Taranthula

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Taranthula wrote: »

Asardes wrote: »

I've actually seen many players with CP400+ with major issues, both in terms of gameplay and attitude. Players that use ineffective skills and/or skill rotation, or even have no rotation whatsoever, that ignore mechanics, even when explained in detail before fight - I actually ask people if they ran the dungeon before if I see them making blatant mistakes and explain the fight in detail. But some take issue with that or don't even bother to respond on chat, and from their subsequent actions it's pretty clear they don't actually care about what I explain them. I simply leave such groups because I don't have the time to waste with morons.

I've seen plenty of CP400+ Templar "healers" spamming BoL, never slotting HoTs - ritual and combat prayer are no brainers - never throwing shards or doing repentance while running with 2 stamina DD and a stamina tank despite numerous requests to do so. I've seen high CP count DK tanks using no CCs (talons, chains, cinder storm/caltrops), using no group buffs, and obviously running out resources while taunting just the biggest mob and then perma-blocking. I've seen high CP DDs hitting like a wet noodle. And all of the above just standing in AoE and getting burned.

A concrete example: I had a healer for a VWGT pledge. Throughout the dungeon I was telling him to change his skills to more HoTs, to throw shards and repent. He didn't listen, didn't even bother to say something on the chat. He was dead for most of the Inhibitor fight because somehow he stood in the geysers, and even while he was alive he didn't use the proper skills; we were just skilled enough and had self heals to barely get us trough that. At Kena though he died again and again at the lightning wave because he didn't block. When I saw him getting hit in the face by the lightning waves the 6th or 7th time and wiping the group because he didn't even attempt to block that despite the fact I told him to specifically, I simply left. Some people simply don't develop survival instincts in this game, and on top of that they utter jerks for not properly doing the support role despite being told specifically which skills to use by the other group members. Healer should be called support in this game.

This is due to the fact that many people grinded their CP solo/duo, then grinded their chars to level 50 using the same simple skill combo, or even just the AoE button, against weak enemies that had no mechanics. And then they come to dungeons, do the easier ones because probably they can still pull enough AoE to steamroll the mobs and the bosses on easy mode. But then they go into DLC dungeons and get rekt hard. They are getting rekt even in older dungeons that had vet and hard mode added in One Tamriel because bosses have more health and some of them have one-shot attack now. And then you see a part of that brain-dead crowd come on the forum and whine that content X and Y be nerfed because their cognitive functions have atrophied to such an extent from all that grinding that they can't handle it.

I can play both as a tank and a DD on my main, as I have a full stamina build and adequate gear for both. My rotation as DD is not that complex, and yes, it includes wrecking blow for the empower. But for maximum damage and sustain should be alternated with heavy attack to activate the follow up passive and build ultimate. Dawnbreaker initial damage gets empowered, so that should be activated right after a wrecking blow. At less than 30% executioner with heavy attack is a good combo. For bow light attacks should be part of the rotation, for the hawk eye passive, and ultimate buildup. So if the DD did a few light attacks, then poison arrow and endless hail (AoE) or focused aim (single target), and then switched to melee bar that's actually a valid rotation. I use those all the time and still get decent enough DPS to finish hard mode on all dungeons, including VWGT and VICP as DD.

+ This...

I actually got called out on a normal dungeon as bow user, because I weaved in light attacks. I told him that my LA's were buffing my damage due to hawk eye, and that I did use focused aim and poison arrow. Then he was like "k..." - not even a "oh, sorry - didn't see those being used. My bad"...

Anyways - my only concern right now, is the heavy attack animation cancelling. I can cancel LA easily. But the HA ones, I struggle a lot.

Any suggestions?

Bow dd huh.

Yup - got tired of running 2H/DW NB

Asardes

You can cancel HA only with instant cast abilities. For example in 2H you can cast executioner together with heavy attack, but for wrecking blow you have to alternate them because both have cast duration. You can weave light attacks with anything though because they are instant cast.

leepalmer95

SolarCat02 wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Taranthula wrote: »

Asardes wrote: »

I've actually seen many players with CP400+ with major issues, both in terms of gameplay and attitude. Players that use ineffective skills and/or skill rotation, or even have no rotation whatsoever, that ignore mechanics, even when explained in detail before fight - I actually ask people if they ran the dungeon before if I see them making blatant mistakes and explain the fight in detail. But some take issue with that or don't even bother to respond on chat, and from their subsequent actions it's pretty clear they don't actually care about what I explain them. I simply leave such groups because I don't have the time to waste with morons.

I've seen plenty of CP400+ Templar "healers" spamming BoL, never slotting HoTs - ritual and combat prayer are no brainers - never throwing shards or doing repentance while running with 2 stamina DD and a stamina tank despite numerous requests to do so. I've seen high CP count DK tanks using no CCs (talons, chains, cinder storm/caltrops), using no group buffs, and obviously running out resources while taunting just the biggest mob and then perma-blocking. I've seen high CP DDs hitting like a wet noodle. And all of the above just standing in AoE and getting burned.

A concrete example: I had a healer for a VWGT pledge. Throughout the dungeon I was telling him to change his skills to more HoTs, to throw shards and repent. He didn't listen, didn't even bother to say something on the chat. He was dead for most of the Inhibitor fight because somehow he stood in the geysers, and even while he was alive he didn't use the proper skills; we were just skilled enough and had self heals to barely get us trough that. At Kena though he died again and again at the lightning wave because he didn't block. When I saw him getting hit in the face by the lightning waves the 6th or 7th time and wiping the group because he didn't even attempt to block that despite the fact I told him to specifically, I simply left. Some people simply don't develop survival instincts in this game, and on top of that they utter jerks for not properly doing the support role despite being told specifically which skills to use by the other group members. Healer should be called support in this game.

This is due to the fact that many people grinded their CP solo/duo, then grinded their chars to level 50 using the same simple skill combo, or even just the AoE button, against weak enemies that had no mechanics. And then they come to dungeons, do the easier ones because probably they can still pull enough AoE to steamroll the mobs and the bosses on easy mode. But then they go into DLC dungeons and get rekt hard. They are getting rekt even in older dungeons that had vet and hard mode added in One Tamriel because bosses have more health and some of them have one-shot attack now. And then you see a part of that brain-dead crowd come on the forum and whine that content X and Y be nerfed because their cognitive functions have atrophied to such an extent from all that grinding that they can't handle it.

I can play both as a tank and a DD on my main, as I have a full stamina build and adequate gear for both. My rotation as DD is not that complex, and yes, it includes wrecking blow for the empower. But for maximum damage and sustain should be alternated with heavy attack to activate the follow up passive and build ultimate. Dawnbreaker initial damage gets empowered, so that should be activated right after a wrecking blow. At less than 30% executioner with heavy attack is a good combo. For bow light attacks should be part of the rotation, for the hawk eye passive, and ultimate buildup. So if the DD did a few light attacks, then poison arrow and endless hail (AoE) or focused aim (single target), and then switched to melee bar that's actually a valid rotation. I use those all the time and still get decent enough DPS to finish hard mode on all dungeons, including VWGT and VICP as DD.

+ This...

I actually got called out on a normal dungeon as bow user, because I weaved in light attacks. I told him that my LA's were buffing my damage due to hawk eye, and that I did use focused aim and poison arrow. Then he was like "k..." - not even a "oh, sorry - didn't see those being used. My bad"...

Anyways - my only concern right now, is the heavy attack animation cancelling. I can cancel LA easily. But the HA ones, I struggle a lot.

Any suggestions?

Bow dd huh.

There's nothing wrong with bow, provided you know how to use it well. Having access to ranged attacks is very useful in mobile fights especially if the boss teleports a lot, it's got some useful damage over time with the poison injection, it lets groups spread out more for fights like the first real boss of veteran Spindleclutch (so you don't end up with two people in the circle), and it's got some useful tools for controlling and rooting mobs.

Sure, the DPS is lower than a 2 hander (single target) or dual wield (AoE), but the bow definitely has its place, and it can really shine if the user knows it well.

A half ok dps set up is dw/bow on any stam chara...

Bow main dps is so low you may as well punch everything to death.

Taranthula

leepalmer95 wrote: »

SolarCat02 wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Taranthula wrote: »

Asardes wrote: »

I've actually seen many players with CP400+ with major issues, both in terms of gameplay and attitude. Players that use ineffective skills and/or skill rotation, or even have no rotation whatsoever, that ignore mechanics, even when explained in detail before fight - I actually ask people if they ran the dungeon before if I see them making blatant mistakes and explain the fight in detail. But some take issue with that or don't even bother to respond on chat, and from their subsequent actions it's pretty clear they don't actually care about what I explain them. I simply leave such groups because I don't have the time to waste with morons.

I've seen plenty of CP400+ Templar "healers" spamming BoL, never slotting HoTs - ritual and combat prayer are no brainers - never throwing shards or doing repentance while running with 2 stamina DD and a stamina tank despite numerous requests to do so. I've seen high CP count DK tanks using no CCs (talons, chains, cinder storm/caltrops), using no group buffs, and obviously running out resources while taunting just the biggest mob and then perma-blocking. I've seen high CP DDs hitting like a wet noodle. And all of the above just standing in AoE and getting burned.

A concrete example: I had a healer for a VWGT pledge. Throughout the dungeon I was telling him to change his skills to more HoTs, to throw shards and repent. He didn't listen, didn't even bother to say something on the chat. He was dead for most of the Inhibitor fight because somehow he stood in the geysers, and even while he was alive he didn't use the proper skills; we were just skilled enough and had self heals to barely get us trough that. At Kena though he died again and again at the lightning wave because he didn't block. When I saw him getting hit in the face by the lightning waves the 6th or 7th time and wiping the group because he didn't even attempt to block that despite the fact I told him to specifically, I simply left. Some people simply don't develop survival instincts in this game, and on top of that they utter jerks for not properly doing the support role despite being told specifically which skills to use by the other group members. Healer should be called support in this game.

This is due to the fact that many people grinded their CP solo/duo, then grinded their chars to level 50 using the same simple skill combo, or even just the AoE button, against weak enemies that had no mechanics. And then they come to dungeons, do the easier ones because probably they can still pull enough AoE to steamroll the mobs and the bosses on easy mode. But then they go into DLC dungeons and get rekt hard. They are getting rekt even in older dungeons that had vet and hard mode added in One Tamriel because bosses have more health and some of them have one-shot attack now. And then you see a part of that brain-dead crowd come on the forum and whine that content X and Y be nerfed because their cognitive functions have atrophied to such an extent from all that grinding that they can't handle it.

I can play both as a tank and a DD on my main, as I have a full stamina build and adequate gear for both. My rotation as DD is not that complex, and yes, it includes wrecking blow for the empower. But for maximum damage and sustain should be alternated with heavy attack to activate the follow up passive and build ultimate. Dawnbreaker initial damage gets empowered, so that should be activated right after a wrecking blow. At less than 30% executioner with heavy attack is a good combo. For bow light attacks should be part of the rotation, for the hawk eye passive, and ultimate buildup. So if the DD did a few light attacks, then poison arrow and endless hail (AoE) or focused aim (single target), and then switched to melee bar that's actually a valid rotation. I use those all the time and still get decent enough DPS to finish hard mode on all dungeons, including VWGT and VICP as DD.

+ This...

I actually got called out on a normal dungeon as bow user, because I weaved in light attacks. I told him that my LA's were buffing my damage due to hawk eye, and that I did use focused aim and poison arrow. Then he was like "k..." - not even a "oh, sorry - didn't see those being used. My bad"...

Anyways - my only concern right now, is the heavy attack animation cancelling. I can cancel LA easily. But the HA ones, I struggle a lot.

Any suggestions?

Bow dd huh.

There's nothing wrong with bow, provided you know how to use it well. Having access to ranged attacks is very useful in mobile fights especially if the boss teleports a lot, it's got some useful damage over time with the poison injection, it lets groups spread out more for fights like the first real boss of veteran Spindleclutch (so you don't end up with two people in the circle), and it's got some useful tools for controlling and rooting mobs.

Sure, the DPS is lower than a 2 hander (single target) or dual wield (AoE), but the bow definitely has its place, and it can really shine if the user knows it well.

A half ok dps set up is dw/bow on any stam chara...

Bow main dps is so low you may as well punch everything to death.

In case you failed to read it...I wrote "normal" dungeon..I ran those runs, being early to mid-20s, where you still develop your abilities.

Also - dungeons - Mechanics>dps

Taranthula

Asardes wrote: »

You can cancel HA only with instant cast abilities. For example in 2H you can cast executioner together with heavy attack, but for wrecking blow you have to alternate them because both have cast duration. You can weave light attacks with anything though because they are instant cast.

That, I know but I meant more like.. when to you lift your finger of the button to stop the HA...etc. I noticed that if I keep holding down the button, the swing goes all the way from "behind the back", but if I lift the finger after 1-1.5 sec, it only swings from "halfway back" but STILL counts as heavy...

I guess my question is - do you keep holding down the button and then just click the insta-ability, or do you actually lift the button when the HA fires off, and THEN click the insta-ability?

A bit difficult to explain sorry.

Eleusian

kylewwefan wrote: »

Maybe it's different on PC but here on PS4 I learned my lesson. Don't pug a vet trial. It will likely end badly. Even normal, the low DPS can make trials drag on far longer than needs be. Or people obsessed with heavy sack.

What's up with all the people that just wanna get all the sacks in AA. It's rediculous , 10 minute trial taking 45