Too Many 531's without a clue.

Sludge04

People always seek to blame others when things are not going their way. I don't rely much on healers and I don't rely much on tanks either; I'm a Breton Sorcerer for the most part and can get through trials and dungeons pretty unscathed, when tanks start dying, they are quick to point the finger at anyone other than themselves, when Nightblades can't stay alive, it's the healers fault. When healers start dying it's the tanks fault. When everyone starts dying it's the DPS fault. Do your job set up your character to stay alive above anything else and it's a pretty simple formality.

I never call someone out for having a bad game, I suggest courses of action if we're at a sticking point but ultimately it's a group effort and you have to adapt to other playing styles in the random nature of pugs.

As for the loose "sorc is dead" comment, far from it.

Asardes

kylewwefan wrote: »

Maybe it's different on PC but here on PS4 I learned my lesson. Don't pug a vet trial. It will likely end badly. Even normal, the low DPS can make trials drag on far longer than needs be. Or people obsessed with heavy sack.

I remember one of those normal trials, I think it was AA, where all people needed to sit on a pedestal to teleport. But some were just going behind some rocks to get that heavy sack full of common wood or ore. I laughed hard at that

Sallington

The problem is that 95% of the game, up until Vet Dungeons, is that there isn't any difficulty what so ever. No one needs to know how to play their class to potato to 561CP and get close to BiS gear.

I think a lot of people find a build online, try to gear up for it, and then have no idea how to play their class. The learning curve and skill cap in ESO is pretty high.

runningtings

I like it when folk post that you need to prove your experience to join their group, makes me think they are idiots who want better players to carry them through...

Link achievement?? Pffff

Doctordarkspawn

There's a nice, fat problem everyone on this thread is ignoring as I've seen.

Grinders.

A person who gears for maximum DPS and grinds CP is usually the ones being as stupid as your talking about. The bar is set so low, and their exposure to mechanics, whether they adhere to them or not, is so low that they dont know how to act inside a dungeon. They damage themselves by grinding.

So when you see a max CP guy without a damn clue, it's usually a dude who had his gear crafted by a buddie, ground his way to the top, and has no idea what he's doing because he didn't even bother to figure out how the game worked first.

akl77

I'Ve seen pretty shocking 531 as well, with their rusty clothes.. I mean at least upgrade your clothes..
Now I look at titles instead, if just cp200 with malestrom champion, I know he/she is good.
Stormproof or flawless conquer, then you got a gem in the team!

Isellskooma

You can tell when 531's and 561's have no clue at what they are doing just by looking at there gear, am I the only one?

Zevlin

Asardes wrote: »

Zevlin wrote: »

I am level 43 and been through 3 dungeons, each time I really did not learn anything about those dungeons. The only way I can prepare is to research the dungeons outside the game. This is not how I like to enjoy my group content.

Yep, sadly normal dungeons can be run without having any clue about the mechanics, because none of them are actually one shot, and the mobs and bosses have so little health you can kill them fast just by AoE-ing with pulsar or spamming steel tornado or wrecking blow. People face roll those then they get in vet and get totally rekt there because they haven't actually learned anything from the normal mode. I suspect it's the same with trials, because I played some of those and they seemed very easy. Never tried veteran trials, but I know I have to prepare more thoroughly for those.

Actually ZoS buffed the normal modes a bit in the initial One Tamriel patch, but nerfed them back into the ground yesterday with the incremental one, probably because they saw so many people whining on the forum about how hard they are. I bet they are seriously pondering about doing the world bosses soloable again, because people got rekt there too and started sobbing

I was in beta for this game but held back for a couple of years. I seems that the group culture is broken. I am cancel ESO+ after this month. I thought I would have lasted more than a couple months. O well, I hope Pantheon launches with the old school MMORPG. I would love to get back to that 1999 EQ type game play.

raviour

Its a mentality thing @Doctordarkspawn is right.

In PvP u really see the difference between these people that ground 561cp, copied a build, still play like they r grinding and got rekt. They end up AP farmers or getting wrecked in wayrest sewers.

And those that just bought the game to PvP getting hooked on Blackwater Blade coz are shocked at AP farm mentality when they try vet and cba to grind PvE for weeks to seal club these max cp noobs.

If only non-vet PvP gave cp the vet cp campaigns would be a lot more competetive and these low cp non-vetters might get accepted to a gold pledge, when they are more apt than a lot of the 561cp dudes...

Doctordarkspawn

raviour wrote: »

Its a mentality thing @Doctordarkspawn is right.

In PvP u really see the difference between these people that ground 561cp, copied a build, still play like they r grinding and got rekt. They end up AP farmers or getting wrecked in wayrest sewers.

And those that just bought the game to PvP getting hooked on Blackwater Blade coz are shocked at AP farm mentality when they try vet and cba to grind PvE for weeks to seal club these max cp noobs.

If only non-vet PvP gave cp the vet cp campaigns would be a lot more competetive and these low cp non-vetters might get accepted to a gold pledge, when they are more apt than a lot of the 561cp dudes...

It's the same PVE side. You get these guys who will sit in fire, spaming rapid strikes, brawler, or wrecking blow, and just -sit there-, not bothering to move, not bothering to move even if they notice the boss turning toward them. They just sit there, like Automatons.

Or healers who spam precisely one healing ability because that's all they needed to keep their grind buddy before. It's...baffling, to say the least.

Garrick

I read this whole thread and it's pretty depressing. I have 200CP and I've only done a few dungeons, PUGs. I was looking forward to doing more of them, but after reading this I came to the conclusion that (a) I am one of those people who does not know what to do and (b) I'll probably get dropped or not even picked up. I can never play for more than 1-2 hours at a time, so the thought of spending all that time LFG or only part-running dungeons (i.e. failing) is really putting me off. Don't get me wrong: I do NOT want dungeons to be easier. What I would really like is access some kind of crash-course in how to have a clue. Seriously. I think that would help people like me - most people, I suspect - more than anything else.

Just to give you experienced players a laugh, and to illustrate how big the knowledge gap might be, I took some notes of comments in this thread that I do not understand. At the expense of my own dignity, such as it is, I will illustrate to you that a 200CP account can get that far without answers to the following questions.

1. What is a rotation? I've heard it mentioned a lot, and I kind of deduced it's what skills you use in what order, but are we saying that I need to blindly execute skills in a specific order to be successful? Sounds kinda boring.
2. How important is animation canceling? I know what it is, but my ability to do it seems limited. Most of the time, I end up canceling something before it goes off. And I do practice it, it just doesn't seem to add much.
3. So what skills are good? Spamming anything is bad, it appears, particularly BoL and wrecking blow. So if I am not using those, what should I be using? Given the amount of text people have written in this thread, it would be relatively easy for someone to list out the better skills for each role, so it is not an unreasonable question.
4. Combat Prayer? Empower? I know what Empower is, but the sense I am getting is that there are certain buffs that are needed/expected. Similar to the last question: what are they?
5. How the heck do you people know these dungeons without failing a few times to learn the mechanics? I mean, some of these boss mechanics sound brutal - one-hits, DPS race, kill adds/ignore adds. I tried watching a few dungeon videos but I quickly gave up because it's usually impossible to see what is going on and no-one ever explains anything. I don't see how I know what to do without getting it wrong a few times.

I guess my point is this: There are probably many people reading this thread, like myself, feeling woefully inadequate. Some of you might be thinking, "Good. Then you won't run any dungeons and I won't have to put up with you sucking". Fair point, but a little short-sighted if I may say so. Why not turn this big negative into something of a positive and perhaps drop some guidance here, or point to it if it exists somewhere else. Because, believe me, I've looked and it seems like the help is either (a) here is how to equip a sword or (b) how to get 0.00001% more DPS on [insert boss here]. Something in-between would be pretty handy right now.

raviour

@garrick we were all noobs once, i feel like a pro-noob now coz have a lot of experience. my advice is to join a friendly guild that uses teamspeak3 and learn from some people that know the mechanics and can give you advice on your bar and sets. often big trading guilds or large PvE guilds have these players, you might have to try a few guilds before you find the right people though.

the problem is these people that think they are good after grinding cp till they are brain dead and don't play the game in an organic way. they think they achieved something and look down on people with less cp but a person like you that cares about their game is always more valuable to a group.

I know people that have been turned down from pledges because they only have 450cp ????? its like anywhere, some people r just born a bit stupid and get their priorities wrong.

Cryptical

Asardes wrote: »

And not closing the portals in Planar Inhibitor fight in time is one of the worst that you can have in 4 man dungeons. I've met Templars that beamed them and of course everybody wiped to Ogrims there. Being a special snowflake doesn't work in DLC dungeons, let alone in a vet trial - I suppose that is what you meant by "raid".

I've beamed the portals and not allowed a single add to appear. And then toppling charge, retribution, sweep, radiant the adds that hadn't been otherwise killed from an earlier portal cycle that the dps let in.

Those portals require a good ranged attack. That first tick that happens before the beam appears that is so hated in pvp, is quite great when it is landing on those inhibitor portals. Did your Templars know they can block cancel the beam early if something walked in front of them and got mis-targeted?

I'm still experimenting with block-canceling that first invisible tick to try and stack as many beams into a second or 2 as possible, but the timing is weird. Even though it happens before the beam appears, it still feels like there's a build up that's not consistent.

Tai-Chi

kylewwefan wrote: »

First off, I PUG a lot. I see many terribad players at max level. Not just to boost my own self....I did fungal grotto vet with a player who's rotation was light attack bow, caltrops...over and over again. Or the wrecking blow spam...or stand at a distance bow light attacking never use a single ability. Full heavy armor DD's , light armor staff tanks?!?

Are everyone buying max level accounts and playing how they want? How do you get there and have no clue? I can't deal with the PUG life anymore. I tried 2 Vet HelRa PUG trials over the weekend....I'll never do that again. Not even hard mode. Just Vet. Having awesome Healers and tank still aren't getting low DPS group through.

Everyone loves to hate on the "elite" players. There's too many players out there pulling less than 10k. I just don't get it. It's so much better when I'm the only bad player in a group. My weekend of elite trials and daily's would have made a hilarious episode of "the differently geared".

I have seen the question brought up about the game being too easy. I tell you no way. Normal mode almost needs to be easier. Vet dungeons...hmmm and Hard Mode....casuals and terribads are gonna struggle and likely give up. A few really good players can carry the team, but most won't make it that far. When you see it takes 5 minutes to burn the first trash mob, just leave.

Hi @kylewwefan , you must be referring to a Character like mine.

She is a Nord, Magicka Sorc, V160 CP (561+) wearing 5 Gold Star crafted gear - all with Kuta enchants and she never leaves base without her loyal Clannfear at her side.

She runs Destro Staff on the front bar and either TwB or S&AB on the back bar. She hates toggling, so never uses the 3rd bar. Her armour is 5 x HA and 2 x LA, with 2 mundus stones.

Solo play was all she did prior to One Tamriel.
To take on Dolmens, Mobs and Bosses alone, she needed sustainability as well as DPS to achieve the goal and of course tactics.

Her build is tailored to complete every achievement in Tamriel, Wrothgar, Hews Bane and The Gold Coast (except those sneaky time related ones in TG & DB) whilst soloing, to kill every boss both above ground and below, gather every skyshard & skillpoint on offer, including all the Group Events in Public Dungeons - except the one that is impossible to complete without a player standing on each of two Scarab-Beetle tiles.

To answer some of your questions
Yes, she is playing how she wants. Like Leonardo Da Vinci and Einstein, she thinks outside the box.

How do you get there and have no clue?
Through sheer determination, study, acquiring knowledge from the Forums and other sources/players on the net and of course, through many hours of experience with experimentation. So not exactly 'Clueless' , in a general sense.

Clueless as to the new Undaunted Pledges and Group Dungeons; yes she is clueless.
She has never done them before! She does not know the layout, where the bosses are or what to expect. She runs after the other players and joins in the battle, stopping off to speak to the NPCs with white or black arrow markers.

She has never died yet and neither has her Clannfear. Her tankiness and ability to block with a staff has kept her alive and kill the boss, when her team-mates have all died. With only a single boss to take care of, her Clannfear is able to keep him at bay, until at least one other team-mate has been resurrected.

Not only does she have to learn how to group but also how to use the chat windows and channels. She does not know the abbreviations; she does not know the mechanics for inviting other players; she does not know how to use the group finder. She has not learnt how to keep the chat-text scrolling and therefore misses a lot of what other group members are saying.

Nevertheless, all that will come with time and a keen interest to learn.
She is very grateful to her newly found Guild Members (all well below her level) for their patience and willingness to act as mentors. She repays them in other ways such as crafting 9 trait gear, making top-speck food, drinks, potions and glyphs for them for free.

So, please don't prejudge everyone and make generalisations.
I am sure there are other players like me out there, who are not stereotyped but are willing to experiment and to be a little bit more creative than the standard player.

@ZOS intention was for players to be able to successfully play any Race, any Class. My Nord Sorc is taking on that challenge.

Asardes

Knowing the buffs and debuffs and reading the skill explanations gets you a long way in this game. I suspect many people don't even bother to read them, by the way they are using them. There are a couple of important rules:

1) A buff or debuff does not stack with itself, but it stacks with the other magnitude. So major does not stack with major, but it stacks with minor. For example if you are a stamina DD and you cast rally, and a DK casts ingenous shields close to you you get major brutality from the former and minor brutality from the latter.

2) Any skill that consumes stamina and does physical, poison or disease damage is affected by your maximum stamina and your weapon damage and any skill that consumes magicka and does magic/elemental damage is affected by your maximum magicka and spell damage; both stats are visible in the character window.

http://esoacademy.com/buffs-debuffs/

Animation canceling is simply casting a skill sufficiently fast after another so that part of the previous one animation doesn't play. Some skills can be animation canceled by blocking or bar swap. For example if I cast elemental blockade and swap bar to cast velocious curse then swap again to cast force pulse part of the animation for the first 2 skills will not play though the skills will be cast nevertheless.

Attack weaving is casting light attacks between different skills for more damage and ultimate buildup. For example if you are using a destruction staff you should cast light attack between force pulses. Sometimes attack weaving and animation cancelling are one and the same. For example your stamina DK which has molten armaments up weaves heavy attacks between various other skills and part of both the heavy attack and the subsequent skill animation doesn't play.

Rotation actually means rotating trough various skills in such a way that you have various buffs, debuffs and DoTs (damage over time) running constantly and use dirrect damage abilities between them. Some skills like crystal fragments do have a chance to do more damage and/or reduced cost if other skills are cast before it, also some skills or basic attacks can be empowered or receive other bonuses.

Empower means that the next attack will do +20% damage compared to the tool tip value. DoTs and channels can't be empowered, just skills that have an immediate damage component. For example wrecking blow empowers the initial hit from dawnbreaker, but not the subsequent DoT.

http://elderscrollsonline.wiki.fextralife.com/Skills

raj72616a

Garrick wrote: »

1. What is a rotation? I've heard it mentioned a lot, and I kind of deduced it's what skills you use in what order, but are we saying that I need to blindly execute skills in a specific order to be successful? Sounds kinda boring.
2. How important is animation canceling? I know what it is, but my ability to do it seems limited. Most of the time, I end up canceling something before it goes off. And I do practice it, it just doesn't seem to add much.
3. So what skills are good? Spamming anything is bad, it appears, particularly BoL and wrecking blow. So if I am not using those, what should I be using? Given the amount of text people have written in this thread, it would be relatively easy for someone to list out the better skills for each role, so it is not an unreasonable question.
4. Combat Prayer? Empower? I know what Empower is, but the sense I am getting is that there are certain buffs that are needed/expected. Similar to the last question: what are they?
5. How the heck do you people know these dungeons without failing a few times to learn the mechanics? I mean, some of these boss mechanics sound brutal - one-hits, DPS race, kill adds/ignore adds. I tried watching a few dungeon videos but I quickly gave up because it's usually impossible to see what is going on and no-one ever explains anything. I don't see how I know what to do without getting it wrong a few times.

fellow cp200 noob here. hopefully others correct me since i probably am wrong.

1. you should start attacking with a damage over time ability, then a light attack, then before the light attack animation finish you use another attack ability (the damage from the light attack will still count even tho the animation didnt finish), then another light attack, then another ability, and so on, to deal damage as fast as you can
2. animation cancelling affect dps quite a bit yes. but i'm lagging quite a bit from asia so i'm technically unable to consistently cancel animation optimally.
3. i'm stam templar so biting jab is the only good class spam attack. for highest damage i think you need to dual wield and use its damage over time attacks on high priority single targets and its aoe attack on trash mobs.
5. google abt the dungeons. there are guides for them all.

Sludge04

Garrick wrote: »

I read this whole thread and it's pretty depressing. I have 200CP and I've only done a few dungeons, PUGs. I was looking forward to doing more of them, but after reading this I came to the conclusion that (a) I am one of those people who does not know what to do and (b) I'll probably get dropped or not even picked up. I can never play for more than 1-2 hours at a time, so the thought of spending all that time LFG or only part-running dungeons (i.e. failing) is really putting me off. Don't get me wrong: I do NOT want dungeons to be easier. What I would really like is access some kind of crash-course in how to have a clue. Seriously. I think that would help people like me - most people, I suspect - more than anything else.

Just to give you experienced players a laugh, and to illustrate how big the knowledge gap might be, I took some notes of comments in this thread that I do not understand. At the expense of my own dignity, such as it is, I will illustrate to you that a 200CP account can get that far without answers to the following questions.

1. What is a rotation? I've heard it mentioned a lot, and I kind of deduced it's what skills you use in what order, but are we saying that I need to blindly execute skills in a specific order to be successful? Sounds kinda boring.
2. How important is animation canceling? I know what it is, but my ability to do it seems limited. Most of the time, I end up canceling something before it goes off. And I do practice it, it just doesn't seem to add much.
3. So what skills are good? Spamming anything is bad, it appears, particularly BoL and wrecking blow. So if I am not using those, what should I be using? Given the amount of text people have written in this thread, it would be relatively easy for someone to list out the better skills for each role, so it is not an unreasonable question.
4. Combat Prayer? Empower? I know what Empower is, but the sense I am getting is that there are certain buffs that are needed/expected. Similar to the last question: what are they?
5. How the heck do you people know these dungeons without failing a few times to learn the mechanics? I mean, some of these boss mechanics sound brutal - one-hits, DPS race, kill adds/ignore adds. I tried watching a few dungeon videos but I quickly gave up because it's usually impossible to see what is going on and no-one ever explains anything. I don't see how I know what to do without getting it wrong a few times.

I guess my point is this: There are probably many people reading this thread, like myself, feeling woefully inadequate. Some of you might be thinking, "Good. Then you won't run any dungeons and I won't have to put up with you sucking". Fair point, but a little short-sighted if I may say so. Why not turn this big negative into something of a positive and perhaps drop some guidance here, or point to it if it exists somewhere else. Because, believe me, I've looked and it seems like the help is either (a) here is how to equip a sword or (b) how to get 0.00001% more DPS on [insert boss here]. Something in-between would be pretty handy right now.

If it's any consolation, I have run this game pretty much as a random since day 1, I don't know the lingo (BiS??) and I'm still making my mind up on my sorcerer build at 480 CP.

kylewwefan

Garrick wrote: »

I read this whole thread and it's pretty depressing. I have 200CP and I've only done a few dungeons, PUGs. I was looking forward to doing more of them, but after reading this I came to the conclusion that (a) I am one of those people who does not know what to do and (b) I'll probably get dropped or not even picked up. I can never play for more than 1-2 hours at a time, so the thought of spending all that time LFG or only part-running dungeons (i.e. failing) is really putting me off. Don't get me wrong: I do NOT want dungeons to be easier. What I would really like is access some kind of crash-course in how to have a clue. Seriously. I think that would help people like me - most people, I suspect - more than anything else.

Just to give you experienced players a laugh, and to illustrate how big the knowledge gap might be, I took some notes of comments in this thread that I do not understand. At the expense of my own dignity, such as it is, I will illustrate to you that a 200CP account can get that far without answers to the following questions.

1. What is a rotation? I've heard it mentioned a lot, and I kind of deduced it's what skills you use in what order, but are we saying that I need to blindly execute skills in a specific order to be successful? Sounds kinda boring.
2. How important is animation canceling? I know what it is, but my ability to do it seems limited. Most of the time, I end up canceling something before it goes off. And I do practice it, it just doesn't seem to add much.
3. So what skills are good? Spamming anything is bad, it appears, particularly BoL and wrecking blow. So if I am not using those, what should I be using? Given the amount of text people have written in this thread, it would be relatively easy for someone to list out the better skills for each role, so it is not an unreasonable question.
4. Combat Prayer? Empower? I know what Empower is, but the sense I am getting is that there are certain buffs that are needed/expected. Similar to the last question: what are they?
5. How the heck do you people know these dungeons without failing a few times to learn the mechanics? I mean, some of these boss mechanics sound brutal - one-hits, DPS race, kill adds/ignore adds. I tried watching a few dungeon videos but I quickly gave up because it's usually impossible to see what is going on and no-one ever explains anything. I don't see how I know what to do without getting it wrong a few times.

I guess my point is this: There are probably many people reading this thread, like myself, feeling woefully inadequate. Some of you might be thinking, "Good. Then you won't run any dungeons and I won't have to put up with you sucking". Fair point, but a little short-sighted if I may say so. Why not turn this big negative into something of a positive and perhaps drop some guidance here, or point to it if it exists somewhere else. Because, believe me, I've looked and it seems like the help is either (a) here is how to equip a sword or (b) how to get 0.00001% more DPS on [insert boss here]. Something in-between would be pretty handy right now.

1. Yes, rotation is all the skills you use. Buff up first, set damage over times skills, attack, repeat. Keep up your buffs and dots. Use your execute skill at last bit of Boss health. Executes are the skills that have 100~300% extra damage at 25~50% boss health.
2. Ask someone else. I'm no good with animation cancel either...I don't think it's that important but it can make your DPS skyrocket
3. Use a lot of skills. Light attack between skills. Animation canceling falls more into this. There are spammable attack skills. They usually cost much less resource to use. breath of life is not good spammable because it will run you out of resources. Wrecking blow looks good because you see a big hit number off it, but it's slow, can be blocked interrupted dodged. The 20k+ wrecking blow hit is not your DPS. It takes like 3 seconds to pull it off so that 20k is more like 7k DPS.
4. Combat prayer helps your group out by making their attack 8% stronger. But it's small area so they need to be grouped up to get its effect.
5. Run a lot of dungeons. I PUG a lot. Try to help when you can. Learn from others. Everyone's in the same boat. Some people just don't want to learn.
6. Potions are often overlooked, but are majorly important. Even the trash potions you get from dungeons help a lot.
7. Buffs and debuffs are also majorly important. Many tanks just use inner fire and never debuff the boss with puncture. That makes the DPS go way down. One skill can drop bosses physical and spell resistance 5k. It's major.
8. Healing springs and rapid regeneration is the reason any class can be a healer.
9. The min/max. For the meantime, if your magic based put all your attribute points into magic, and the same if your stamina. No more than 5 points into health. Ever. All your armor enchants need to be what your base class is.
10. Stamina skill will be poor on a magic character and magic will be bad on a stamina character. If your stamina, resto staff will be bad and give weak heals.
11. Put your champion points where you want, but don't waste the blue tree. The middle one in the blue tree is not so great. The left one is magic stuff, the right one is stamina.

Junipus

Garrick wrote: »

I read this whole thread and it's pretty depressing. I have 200CP and I've only done a few dungeons, PUGs. I was looking forward to doing more of them, but after reading this I came to the conclusion that (a) I am one of those people who does not know what to do and (b) I'll probably get dropped or not even picked up. I can never play for more than 1-2 hours at a time, so the thought of spending all that time LFG or only part-running dungeons (i.e. failing) is really putting me off. Don't get me wrong: I do NOT want dungeons to be easier. What I would really like is access some kind of crash-course in how to have a clue. Seriously. I think that would help people like me - most people, I suspect - more than anything else.

Just to give you experienced players a laugh, and to illustrate how big the knowledge gap might be, I took some notes of comments in this thread that I do not understand. At the expense of my own dignity, such as it is, I will illustrate to you that a 200CP account can get that far without answers to the following questions.

1. What is a rotation? I've heard it mentioned a lot, and I kind of deduced it's what skills you use in what order, but are we saying that I need to blindly execute skills in a specific order to be successful? Sounds kinda boring.
2. How important is animation canceling? I know what it is, but my ability to do it seems limited. Most of the time, I end up canceling something before it goes off. And I do practice it, it just doesn't seem to add much.
3. So what skills are good? Spamming anything is bad, it appears, particularly BoL and wrecking blow. So if I am not using those, what should I be using? Given the amount of text people have written in this thread, it would be relatively easy for someone to list out the better skills for each role, so it is not an unreasonable question.
4. Combat Prayer? Empower? I know what Empower is, but the sense I am getting is that there are certain buffs that are needed/expected. Similar to the last question: what are they?
5. How the heck do you people know these dungeons without failing a few times to learn the mechanics? I mean, some of these boss mechanics sound brutal - one-hits, DPS race, kill adds/ignore adds. I tried watching a few dungeon videos but I quickly gave up because it's usually impossible to see what is going on and no-one ever explains anything. I don't see how I know what to do without getting it wrong a few times.

I guess my point is this: There are probably many people reading this thread, like myself, feeling woefully inadequate. Some of you might be thinking, "Good. Then you won't run any dungeons and I won't have to put up with you sucking". Fair point, but a little short-sighted if I may say so. Why not turn this big negative into something of a positive and perhaps drop some guidance here, or point to it if it exists somewhere else. Because, believe me, I've looked and it seems like the help is either (a) here is how to equip a sword or (b) how to get 0.00001% more DPS on [insert boss here]. Something in-between would be pretty handy right now.

To add to the wall of text:

1. You don't need to keep up a particular rotation, but most of them are developed so you can place the maximum amount of Damage over Time abilities (DoTs) on a target without reapplying them too early or too late. This will help you get the maximum amount of dps. You can just use a few and apply them as you feel like it, but for truly end game damage you'll eventually need to get a rotation going so well it'll give you RSI.
2. Animation canceling is more for getting the last bit of dps out of your abilities and rotation. An easy way of practicing is to cast an AoE ability like steel tornado or wall of elements and then blocking immediately. Might take some practice, but that's essentially animation canceling. It's not essential for getting good dps and you can do very well without it.
3. What's your favourite Pokemon? Skills are entirely situational and class/role based. In general it's not the most efficient way to fight by spamming something over and over again (why use one skill which does 10k damage when you can weave two that do 8k damage each). Essential skills for tanks are taunts, for healers it'd be breath of life but only for emergency heals.
4. Combat prayer provides a big heal, a buff to spell resistance and an 8% boost to damage all in one. All healers should be running it in trials and dungeons and it resides in the Restoration staff skill line so it's accessible to everyone. Healers can provide the following buffs:
- minor berserk
- minor ward
- minor resolve
- major force
- minor mending
- major mending
- Major breach
While tanks provide:
- Major fracture
- Major breach
- Major force

DPS are different depending on the classes and far too much to go into here.
5. All of us started off failing miserably and dying lots. We still do a lot of the time as either something goes wrong, rng hits us or someone isn't as experienced as they'd need to be to avoid dying. Watching videos of groups doing the DLC dungeons or trials or vet Maelstrom won't help as they're all videos of them doing it flawlessly to showcase their skills after having wiped countless times learning it. Experience and patience will help you greatly in learning what to do and what not to do.

- If standing in front of the boss gets you one-shot as a dps or healer, remember next time not to do that.
- If you run out of the group when their all stacked and you die, remember next time not to do that.
- If you try out using 2-3 skills over spamming one and the boss/mobs die quicker, remember next time to do that.
- If you're tanking and the boss turns around and kills half the group because you forgot to taunt, remember next time not to do that.
- If you're healing and you're only spamming breath of life until you have no magicka and the group wipes, remember next time not to do that.
- If you decide to stand in red AoE and die, remember next time not to do that.
- If you get hit from a one-shot mechanic on the mobs (taking aim is a popular hate term) that can be avoided, remember next time to do that.
- If doing the same tactics and movements gets yourself and your group killed continuously, remember next time not to do that.

If you pay heed to those tips then you'll not only improve your ability in game but will also be readily welcomed into any rational groups.

raj72616a

i'll speak from the perspective of one type of noob players:

my first dungeon was fungal grotto, when i thought the undaunted quest i got at lv10 was telling me to clear the dungeon. i saw it said group dungeon when i entered, but i entered anyway and tried to solo it, and realized that dungeon has different game mechanism compared to the rest of the game (mobs dont respawn. mobs never lose aggro no matter how far you run.) so i gave up.
10 levels later, i thought i should have out levelled stonefalls content, and tried again, grouping with one other random player at grotto front door. we were both clueless abt how dungeon works, we didnt have healer or tank, just two randoms who knew nothing abt how a group works. we got wiped numerous times and made it to the last boss nevertheless, then couldnt figure out how to beat it and gave up after all.

30 levels and 200cp later, i finally notice the group finder menu for the first time! and joined a random party. i had no knowledge abt the group finder interface, and mistakenly joined as a tank (which i wasnt). the group nicely asked me whether i know how to tank (it was white gold tower), i said no i dont have a taunt, can we make do anyway, they said no and vote kicked me (i later learnt why they had to do that for that particular dungeon). the following groups i joined, i registered as dps, in heavy armor, without dualwielding, without any dps rotation, because my character was just soloing as a heavy armor twohander stamplar and was not optimized for any group roles, and even tho i planned to eventually take up the tank role, i was not geared for that yet. so that could be how you get your underperforming dps from pugs: they dont sign up as dps because they think they can do damage real good. they just know they cannot tank and cannot heal, and take a role that is neither tank or healer.

kylewwefan

Tai-Chi wrote: »

kylewwefan wrote: »

First off, I PUG a lot. I see many terribad players at max level. Not just to boost my own self....I did fungal grotto vet with a player who's rotation was light attack bow, caltrops...over and over again. Or the wrecking blow spam...or stand at a distance bow light attacking never use a single ability. Full heavy armor DD's , light armor staff tanks?!?

Are everyone buying max level accounts and playing how they want? How do you get there and have no clue? I can't deal with the PUG life anymore. I tried 2 Vet HelRa PUG trials over the weekend....I'll never do that again. Not even hard mode. Just Vet. Having awesome Healers and tank still aren't getting low DPS group through.

Everyone loves to hate on the "elite" players. There's too many players out there pulling less than 10k. I just don't get it. It's so much better when I'm the only bad player in a group. My weekend of elite trials and daily's would have made a hilarious episode of "the differently geared".

I have seen the question brought up about the game being too easy. I tell you no way. Normal mode almost needs to be easier. Vet dungeons...hmmm and Hard Mode....casuals and terribads are gonna struggle and likely give up. A few really good players can carry the team, but most won't make it that far. When you see it takes 5 minutes to burn the first trash mob, just leave.

Hi @kylewwefan , you must be referring to a Character like mine.

She is a Nord, Magicka Sorc, V160 CP (561+) wearing 5 Gold Star crafted gear - all with Kuta enchants and she never leaves base without her loyal Clannfear at her side.

She runs Destro Staff on the front bar and either TwB or S&AB on the back bar. She hates toggling, so never uses the 3rd bar. Her armour is 5 x HA and 2 x LA, with 2 mundus stones.

Solo play was all she did prior to One Tamriel.
To take on Dolmens, Mobs and Bosses alone, she needed sustainability as well as DPS to achieve the goal and of course tactics.

Her build is tailored to complete every achievement in Tamriel, Wrothgar, Hews Bane and The Gold Coast (except those sneaky time related ones in TG & DB) whilst soloing, to kill every boss both above ground and below, gather every skyshard & skillpoint on offer, including all the Group Events in Public Dungeons - except the one that is impossible to complete without a player standing on each of two Scarab-Beetle tiles.

To answer some of your questions
Yes, she is playing how she wants. Like Leonardo Da Vinci and Einstein, she thinks outside the box.

How do you get there and have no clue?
Through sheer determination, study, acquiring knowledge from the Forums and other sources/players on the net and of course, through many hours of experience with experimentation. So not exactly 'Clueless' , in a general sense.

Clueless as to the new Undaunted Pledges and Group Dungeons; yes she is clueless.
She has never done them before! She does not know the layout, where the bosses are or what to expect. She runs after the other players and joins in the battle, stopping off to speak to the NPCs with white or black arrow markers.

She has never died yet and neither has her Clannfear. Her tankiness and ability to block with a staff has kept her alive and kill the boss, when her team-mates have all died. With only a single boss to take care of, her Clannfear is able to keep him at bay, until at least one other team-mate has been resurrected.

Not only does she have to learn how to group but also how to use the chat windows and channels. She does not know the abbreviations; she does not know the mechanics for inviting other players; she does not know how to use the group finder. She has not learnt how to keep the chat-text scrolling and therefore misses a lot of what other group members are saying.

Nevertheless, all that will come with time and a keen interest to learn.
She is very grateful to her newly found Guild Members (all well below her level) for their patience and willingness to act as mentors. She repays them in other ways such as crafting 9 trait gear, making top-speck food, drinks, potions and glyphs for them for free.

So, please don't prejudge everyone and make generalisations.
I am sure there are other players like me out there, who are not stereotyped but are willing to experiment and to be a little bit more creative than the standard player.

@ZOS intention was for players to be able to successfully play any Race, any Class. My Nord Sorc is taking on that challenge.

I'm gonna judge you if we're in a dungeon and you're spamming caltrops, siege shield, and rapid maneuvers. There will be some words of shock and awe. I won't be mean. I really want you to be better. Everyone will have more fun, yourself included. Don't be the one button warrior. You got 10 skills to choose from. Use them all!

BTW, I like pets. My pet build was great for leveling and questing. They're even alright in normal dungeons. Many Vet dungeons they can be harder to keep alive though.

MakoFore

noticed today alot of pugs in vet- way out of there depth = more so than usual.
im a dd250- so when i do vets I'm normally the noob- but i ve spent time and alot of gold to make myself viable- I'm able to do alot of damage- at the cost of being very vunlerable- but also have had to lean on far stronger group mates to guide me through. they go hand in hand . but i didn't even consider doing vet til recently- until i did all the trials on normal , watched videos, knew the mechanics- and most importantly found guild mates who would be patient and willing to do it with me.

but today? i think i went to three straight vet groups with the average cp was 80 or less. one was a level 13 healer- who insisted they needed to do it to get "the good masks".

the problem is partly the end game gear is so attractive- so essential in pvp- that the newer guys have no choice but to feel in order to catch up -they have to do the vet trials. the pve is now related so strongly to pvp content in that way.

today- in another instance . this group guys were just sitting in wryest1 on the first boss- waiting fro someone to take them thru it. they were nice and all- but i was like "you guys have been waiting for someone to pull u thru this havent you?" - "yup" -
"how many?"
- "you're the fourth guy to come... dont leave?"
- i felt bad and wanted to try at least.
unsurprisingly after getting blasted in moments and being the rezzer, the tank, the dd and the instructor- i left after 3 wipes.

and each time of course i had to wait 10 minutes or so to queue again.
ZoS need to make it necessary to qualify or something for vet trials - either do the normal first perhaps- or be a certain cp level - or give us a choice to set requirements for group play. . i know where i dont belong- but others dont unfortunately. they see streamers rocking the latest viper build and think they can setup a group for nSO (which also happened today) playing the most vital role- healer and tank- and have everyone get wiped out on the second boss. after a DD got kicked for pointing out the group leaders inexperience, we got wiped out- because of his well....inexperience. he had no place being there.

players getting kicked- the awkward "LF3M 450+ link achievements" comments around the zones....I'm no elitist- I'm just a noob myself- but its getting out of hand. . many of us are adults with a limited window to play this game- and get what we need to- we all want something efficient but also something that avoids the discomfort and hostility which will inevitably arise.

i spent 4 hours online today and attempted nSO , about 10 vet dungeons , 8 normal - and didn't complete any til the end, when my mates came on... i m not all that- as i said- middling noob here- but normally i get my pledges ( i do 1 of each normally- depends on what i already have ) done in 40 minutes- easy. ....most frustrating day ever- and the rest of the time it was walking past people grinding dolmens.. which used to be enjoyable to try and solo as a test of my build. not anymore baby....
it was by far the least productive day I've ever played on it- and it must be due to how the sets have been structured. the game is now elder scrolls grind to win online...... i dunno - not good.....

Asardes

Normal trials are cakewalk, just like normal dungeons. Which is bad because people don't learn anything from those and get rekt when they try veteran.

Robbmrp

From personal experience it has to do with most people waiting until they've hit a certain CP level before they enter dungeons. When my wife and I started playing this game, we tried one dungeon Banished Cells while leveling up and thought "OMFG" as we were completely wrecked on normal mode. So we waited until we were at max level which at the time was V14 to go back to them.

With the easy way people can gain CP, there's no reason for them to enter into dungeons at early levels. By doing this, they learn the mechanics much later and you run into the situation you listed. A ton of max players out there with no dungeon experience. Prior to One Tamriel, it was pretty hard to find groups to do the dungeons, not so much anymore.

Had the game originally been setup this way, more people would have ran dungeons prior to max level.

SquareSausage

I don't mean to be disparaging to anyone young; ie teens etc but its usually them who run their mouths in group and slag off poorer performing players. To counter that these guys are generally pretty good, however they are all DPS!! Pew Pew.
Some people don't have the skill, some people dont want the skill and some people simply know better.
Theres nothing to be done but bite the bullet and get on with it. Its part of the game. You get good groups, bad groups and everywhere inbetween.

With regard not knowing tactics I'd advise anyone to watch videos on youtube and/or read strategy before attempting content at Veteran or above. It goes a long way to making you better and saving numerous wipes.

Soundwave

It's not that 531's have no clue, it comes down to they don't care, trolls and maybe lack of common sense. Although every mmo are plaque will same thing over time and no it only gets worse. So buckle down and enjoy the ride, because it only get worse from here, LOL!

Suter1972

Ive only been in one public dungeon and done two dailies with a forum friend from here.

I wouldn't dare go into a random group as I play for fun and cant be bothered with people picking fault.

I recently left a guild as they wanted to 'have a chat about my character before they take me on a run' as they 'wanted to make sure my skill set was best placed to help them' (as a healer). I left the guild as im not into having my character analysed and interviewed. They weren't happy and messaged me saying I had a naive view of the game.

Its things like that that put people like me off grouping

Asardes

I don't think age is the issue here. I've seen immature and annoying people over 40 and I've seen very mature and rational people under 20 IRL. Same applies in video games. I'm 33, which probably makes me average age among players. I'm a gamer since I was 8 and a TES player since I was 20 but this is my 1st multiplayer online game. I had to learn everything from scratch, including MMO abbreviations and jargon, but at least I had the common sense to learn and the audacity to try running veteran content from the first VR. The day I hit level 50/VR1 I ventured forth in my 1st veteran dungeon. It was Spindleclutch and got a gold key that day, which I kept together with the others until I hit VR16, so I could get the max level shoulders.

kylewwefan

Wait till you get someone trying to heal ICP with repentance and Mutagen. First you think it's a joke....then watch the rotation....or random button mashing.

Asardes

kylewwefan wrote: »

Wait till you get someone trying to heal ICP with repentance and Mutagen. First you think it's a joke....then watch the rotation....or random button mashing.

Actually I had the opposite issue - healers not using repentance on the mobs and leaving me gasping for stamina after each trash pack. ICP, even on veteran is not that hard to heal, if the group properly engages the trash packs and avoids certain mechanics at the bosses (ex. run to the corners when the Abomination goes to the center and sends the hoarvors). I think with strong DPS that allows you to pretty much AoE everything to cinders, repentance could be a legit and very effective heal, since the person assigned as healer could be himself AoE-ing instead of slotting other healing skills