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Please Finish The Justice System
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LaiTash✭✭✭Daemons_Bane wrote: »As long as it can cause griefing, it should not be here.. Simple as that.. And that is probably why we won't get it.. People are not willing to stop
Yeah, only a kind of mmo where other players are there to just lower your fps is free of griefing.
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Daemons_Bane✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭NoDaemons_Bane wrote: »Daemons_Bane wrote: »Daemons_Bane wrote: »Some examples I've run across in these discussions is stuff like
A: If the "PvP activation" triggers on bounty size, it sucks for the people who would go for achievements that automatically amass large bounties
B: How would you protect yourself against a ganker with an invisibility potion, without having to change gear/setup?
C: What stops them from camping the hideout entries, nuking any player with an active bounty?
All that stuff is something that needs to be taken care of.. And that is just a few issues.. I saw a suggestion some time ago that I actually liked a lot.. Lets say I'm robbing some merchant in Wayrest, and a player sees it.. Then that players runs over to me and presses E, or whatever you use as activate.. Then I am marked for, lets say 10 secs.. Now if that person that marked me, can get to a guard and alert him via a talk option, within those 10 seconds, then I would automatically be targeted by said guard.. I think that system has potential and could end up being good
A. Risk vs. Reward.
B. Same way I do in PvP, by using the Sentry set (which is cheap) or detection potions.
C. Nothing. But refer to B.
I actually like this idea. Requiring opposing player interaction to identify a target for enforcers.
You don't see a problem when you have to gear for PvP, when you just want to do PvE?
In that particular system, no, because you're not fighting anything else...
It's not like that would require you to throw on PvP gear in the middle of a dungeon or something. We're talking about around town mostly, so...no mobs.
But you're asking me to change my gear, which is a big part of my build and my character, to a set which I have to get from PvP vendors, to do my PvE activity
Do you change your gear based on whether your are Healing, Tanking, or DPS'ing?
Nope, since I never venture outside dps1 -
cjthibs✭✭✭✭✭
✭Daemons_Bane wrote: »NoDaemons_Bane wrote: »Daemons_Bane wrote: »Daemons_Bane wrote: »Some examples I've run across in these discussions is stuff like
A: If the "PvP activation" triggers on bounty size, it sucks for the people who would go for achievements that automatically amass large bounties
B: How would you protect yourself against a ganker with an invisibility potion, without having to change gear/setup?
C: What stops them from camping the hideout entries, nuking any player with an active bounty?
All that stuff is something that needs to be taken care of.. And that is just a few issues.. I saw a suggestion some time ago that I actually liked a lot.. Lets say I'm robbing some merchant in Wayrest, and a player sees it.. Then that players runs over to me and presses E, or whatever you use as activate.. Then I am marked for, lets say 10 secs.. Now if that person that marked me, can get to a guard and alert him via a talk option, within those 10 seconds, then I would automatically be targeted by said guard.. I think that system has potential and could end up being good
A. Risk vs. Reward.
B. Same way I do in PvP, by using the Sentry set (which is cheap) or detection potions.
C. Nothing. But refer to B.
I actually like this idea. Requiring opposing player interaction to identify a target for enforcers.
You don't see a problem when you have to gear for PvP, when you just want to do PvE?
In that particular system, no, because you're not fighting anything else...
It's not like that would require you to throw on PvP gear in the middle of a dungeon or something. We're talking about around town mostly, so...no mobs.
But you're asking me to change my gear, which is a big part of my build and my character, to a set which I have to get from PvP vendors, to do my PvE activity
Do you change your gear based on whether your are Healing, Tanking, or DPS'ing?
Nope, since I never venture outside dps
That is actually really telling.1 -
LaiTash✭✭✭Nobody makes you sit and watch someone kill npcs. If you truly don't like the killing of npcs I suggest NOT playing a game where you can do so.
Nice, go-play-something-else argument always works out.0 -
Daemons_Bane✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Daemons_Bane wrote: »NoDaemons_Bane wrote: »Daemons_Bane wrote: »Daemons_Bane wrote: »Some examples I've run across in these discussions is stuff like
A: If the "PvP activation" triggers on bounty size, it sucks for the people who would go for achievements that automatically amass large bounties
B: How would you protect yourself against a ganker with an invisibility potion, without having to change gear/setup?
C: What stops them from camping the hideout entries, nuking any player with an active bounty?
All that stuff is something that needs to be taken care of.. And that is just a few issues.. I saw a suggestion some time ago that I actually liked a lot.. Lets say I'm robbing some merchant in Wayrest, and a player sees it.. Then that players runs over to me and presses E, or whatever you use as activate.. Then I am marked for, lets say 10 secs.. Now if that person that marked me, can get to a guard and alert him via a talk option, within those 10 seconds, then I would automatically be targeted by said guard.. I think that system has potential and could end up being good
A. Risk vs. Reward.
B. Same way I do in PvP, by using the Sentry set (which is cheap) or detection potions.
C. Nothing. But refer to B.
I actually like this idea. Requiring opposing player interaction to identify a target for enforcers.
You don't see a problem when you have to gear for PvP, when you just want to do PvE?
In that particular system, no, because you're not fighting anything else...
It's not like that would require you to throw on PvP gear in the middle of a dungeon or something. We're talking about around town mostly, so...no mobs.
But you're asking me to change my gear, which is a big part of my build and my character, to a set which I have to get from PvP vendors, to do my PvE activity
Do you change your gear based on whether your are Healing, Tanking, or DPS'ing?
Nope, since I never venture outside dps
That is actually really telling.
Yeah, I like that role, and it works in the world in general0 -
cjthibs✭✭✭✭✭
✭Daemons_Bane wrote: »Daemons_Bane wrote: »NoDaemons_Bane wrote: »Daemons_Bane wrote: »Daemons_Bane wrote: »Some examples I've run across in these discussions is stuff like
A: If the "PvP activation" triggers on bounty size, it sucks for the people who would go for achievements that automatically amass large bounties
B: How would you protect yourself against a ganker with an invisibility potion, without having to change gear/setup?
C: What stops them from camping the hideout entries, nuking any player with an active bounty?
All that stuff is something that needs to be taken care of.. And that is just a few issues.. I saw a suggestion some time ago that I actually liked a lot.. Lets say I'm robbing some merchant in Wayrest, and a player sees it.. Then that players runs over to me and presses E, or whatever you use as activate.. Then I am marked for, lets say 10 secs.. Now if that person that marked me, can get to a guard and alert him via a talk option, within those 10 seconds, then I would automatically be targeted by said guard.. I think that system has potential and could end up being good
A. Risk vs. Reward.
B. Same way I do in PvP, by using the Sentry set (which is cheap) or detection potions.
C. Nothing. But refer to B.
I actually like this idea. Requiring opposing player interaction to identify a target for enforcers.
You don't see a problem when you have to gear for PvP, when you just want to do PvE?
In that particular system, no, because you're not fighting anything else...
It's not like that would require you to throw on PvP gear in the middle of a dungeon or something. We're talking about around town mostly, so...no mobs.
But you're asking me to change my gear, which is a big part of my build and my character, to a set which I have to get from PvP vendors, to do my PvE activity
Do you change your gear based on whether your are Healing, Tanking, or DPS'ing?
Nope, since I never venture outside dps
That is actually really telling.
Yeah, I like that role, and it works in the world in general
For the rest of us one set of gear doesn't cut it.
I have tanking sets, DPSing sets, PvP sets.
The game really isn't designed to support all roles on one set of gear.
Why should a thief role be any different?
If I am a tank that likes to steal, should my big clanky heavy armor be suitable for that?
EDIT: Also, last time I bought a set of Sentry gear it was around 500gold per piece. (Was a while ago though.) Again, this is all hypothetical, but you're talking about a very small investment most likely. It's not like you'd need a specific monster helm or anything you'd need to grind for for this.Edited by cjthibs on September 28, 2016 5:59PM0 -
Daemons_Bane✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Well if I decide to branch out on roles, not likely, I will get a set for it.. But I think you misunderstand me
The difference lies in that if you are allowed to just prey upon us, we are forced to grind new gear.. Granted I don't know how the PvP merchant works, but I don't guess he will give me the sets for gold.. So in order to do my PvE stuff, you are now forcing me into your PvP world to grind currency just so I can outlive the ganker waiting for me? 0 -
cjthibs✭✭✭✭✭
✭Daemons_Bane wrote: »Well if I decide to branch out on roles, not likely, I will get a set for it.. But I think you misunderstand me The difference lies in that if you are allowed to just prey upon us, we are forced to grind new gear.. Granted I don't know how the PvP merchant works, but I don't guess he will give me the sets for gold.. So in order to do my PvE stuff, you are now forcing me into your PvP world to grind currency just so I can outlive the ganker waiting for me?
Sorry, see above edit.
Sentry, in particular, is BoE and cheap.0 -
Tandor✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Daemons_Bane wrote: »Daemons_Bane wrote: »Some examples I've run across in these discussions is stuff like
A: If the "PvP activation" triggers on bounty size, it sucks for the people who would go for achievements that automatically amass large bounties
B: How would you protect yourself against a ganker with an invisibility potion, without having to change gear/setup?
C: What stops them from camping the hideout entries, nuking any player with an active bounty?
All that stuff is something that needs to be taken care of.. And that is just a few issues.. I saw a suggestion some time ago that I actually liked a lot.. Lets say I'm robbing some merchant in Wayrest, and a player sees it.. Then that players runs over to me and presses E, or whatever you use as activate.. Then I am marked for, lets say 10 secs.. Now if that person that marked me, can get to a guard and alert him via a talk option, within those 10 seconds, then I would automatically be targeted by said guard.. I think that system has potential and could end up being good
A. Risk vs. Reward.
B. Same way I do in PvP, by using the Sentry set (which is cheap) or detection potions.
C. Nothing. But refer to B.
I actually like this idea. Requiring opposing player interaction to identify a target for enforcers.
You don't see a problem when you have to gear for PvP, when you just want to do PvE?
In that particular system, no, because you're not fighting anything else...
It's not like that would require you to throw on PvP gear in the middle of a dungeon or something. We're talking about around town mostly, so...no mobs.
But I'm not a PvPer, I have no interest in PvP. The notion that when I enter a town to engage in PvE activities I should be equipped in PvP gear is both impractical and absurd.7 -
Daemons_Bane✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Well at least we can buy it, that's a start.. But I'm still not a fan of having to carry around an extra set, just for when I get the urge to look in someone's house.. It's not like I plan my crime spree so that I can carry the extra gear.. As it is now, I like the "tag idea" better.. I'm not a fan of a guard with a x10 power increase which can be invisible for up to 10-15 secs, and gear designed to instant kill me.. It's just not gonna work0 -
LaiTash✭✭✭But I'm not a PvPer, I have no interest in PvP. The notion that when I enter a town to engage in PvE activities I should be equipped in PvP gear is both impractical and absurd.
What's so absurd in that? Will you look funny or stupid in a pvp gear, or is it your religious beliefs or what? What makes you so worried about having to switch gear? There are even *** mods for quick gear switching (no luck for consoles, yes, but it can always be incorporated into the core game). There are even those which do it automatically!
1 -
cjthibs✭✭✭✭✭
✭Daemons_Bane wrote: »Daemons_Bane wrote: »Some examples I've run across in these discussions is stuff like
A: If the "PvP activation" triggers on bounty size, it sucks for the people who would go for achievements that automatically amass large bounties
B: How would you protect yourself against a ganker with an invisibility potion, without having to change gear/setup?
C: What stops them from camping the hideout entries, nuking any player with an active bounty?
All that stuff is something that needs to be taken care of.. And that is just a few issues.. I saw a suggestion some time ago that I actually liked a lot.. Lets say I'm robbing some merchant in Wayrest, and a player sees it.. Then that players runs over to me and presses E, or whatever you use as activate.. Then I am marked for, lets say 10 secs.. Now if that person that marked me, can get to a guard and alert him via a talk option, within those 10 seconds, then I would automatically be targeted by said guard.. I think that system has potential and could end up being good
A. Risk vs. Reward.
B. Same way I do in PvP, by using the Sentry set (which is cheap) or detection potions.
C. Nothing. But refer to B.
I actually like this idea. Requiring opposing player interaction to identify a target for enforcers.
You don't see a problem when you have to gear for PvP, when you just want to do PvE?
In that particular system, no, because you're not fighting anything else...
It's not like that would require you to throw on PvP gear in the middle of a dungeon or something. We're talking about around town mostly, so...no mobs.
But I'm not a PvPer, I have no interest in PvP. The notion that when I enter a town to engage in PvE activities I should be equipped in PvP gear is both impractical and absurd.
As seen earlier in this thread, there ways to make this type of system with an opt-in mechanic or a threshold to eliminate the PvP element for those that don't want it.
This is all academic since the new designers don't want it at all.0 -
Daemons_Bane✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Daemons_Bane wrote: »Daemons_Bane wrote: »Some examples I've run across in these discussions is stuff like
A: If the "PvP activation" triggers on bounty size, it sucks for the people who would go for achievements that automatically amass large bounties
B: How would you protect yourself against a ganker with an invisibility potion, without having to change gear/setup?
C: What stops them from camping the hideout entries, nuking any player with an active bounty?
All that stuff is something that needs to be taken care of.. And that is just a few issues.. I saw a suggestion some time ago that I actually liked a lot.. Lets say I'm robbing some merchant in Wayrest, and a player sees it.. Then that players runs over to me and presses E, or whatever you use as activate.. Then I am marked for, lets say 10 secs.. Now if that person that marked me, can get to a guard and alert him via a talk option, within those 10 seconds, then I would automatically be targeted by said guard.. I think that system has potential and could end up being good
A. Risk vs. Reward.
B. Same way I do in PvP, by using the Sentry set (which is cheap) or detection potions.
C. Nothing. But refer to B.
I actually like this idea. Requiring opposing player interaction to identify a target for enforcers.
You don't see a problem when you have to gear for PvP, when you just want to do PvE?
In that particular system, no, because you're not fighting anything else...
It's not like that would require you to throw on PvP gear in the middle of a dungeon or something. We're talking about around town mostly, so...no mobs.
But I'm not a PvPer, I have no interest in PvP. The notion that when I enter a town to engage in PvE activities I should be equipped in PvP gear is both impractical and absurd.
As seen earlier in this thread, there ways to make this type of system with an opt-in mechanic or a threshold to eliminate the PvP element for those that don't want it.
This is all academic since the new designers don't want it at all.
Well, I'm all in for the opt in/out mechanic, but not the bounty threshold.. That will, again, interfere with people's free choice of playstyles and achievement hunts1 -
LaiTash✭✭✭Daemons_Bane wrote: »Well, I'm all in for the opt in/out mechanic, but not the bounty threshold.. That will, again, interfere with people's free choice of playstyles and achievement hunts
I want to be a full HA orcish magicka sorc with axe and shield, and i also prefer to work alone, doesn't current dungeon/trials difficulty interfere with my free choice of playstyles and achievement hunts, or should dungeons be nerfed so i could play the game to my liking?1 -
LaiTash✭✭✭Daemons_Bane wrote: »You are free to do/try it That's your freedom.. No one interferes with that
I doubt i'll be able to solo any serious dungeon with that setup. But anyway you are free to try and get above the bounty threshold. It's not impossible, after all, just a little difficult for an inexperienced player.Edited by LaiTash on September 28, 2016 6:28PM0 -
Daemons_Bane✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭How are you even drawing those comparisons in your head dungeons are one thing, the justice system is another thing entirely
In your example, you are right.. You will most likely fail.. But it will not be due to another player..Edited by Daemons_Bane on September 28, 2016 6:31PM0 -
STEVIL✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭
[Word Wall]
All of that is pretending that those consequences are actually likely.
I can run through King Emeric's castle until I am entirely out of inventory space over and over and over again and make it to the fence with almost zero difficulty. The guards' detection radius is pathetic, the normal NPC's usually only look one direction. You have to be really bad, or just not paying attention to get caught.
Why should I be able to steal from a cabinet two feet from a KING. Let's think about that one for a second. (It's not even hard to do.)
And...to your second point. This game's 'casual' PvE used to be a lot harder, and I miss those days. Just like the Justice System we'll never get, all of the normal overland content was nerfed-to-hell because of the same sentiments you're putting forth now.
the first bold: that is a purely deceptive comment. notice you cut my text out so you could then make an inaccurate statement about it.
i said SPECIFICALLY: if you look at most all the other casual gameplay for PVE in this game, it is similarly scaled. those who know what they are doing, who are suitably equipped or suitably skilled etc can participate in delving, questing, grinding and so on and come out with no loss of life most every time. the risk is there but it can be beaten fairly easily by those players.
Similarly scaled. i go on to cover it later in even more detail that the injustice content like the rest of the pve casual content is similarly setup with a difficulty that is easily beatable by prepared characters who know what they are doing with commensurate rewards for play over time.
it is no more or less likely you will suffer consequences from the injustice casual play than from questing or delving or grinding. if you know what you are doing, are equipped right are skilled right etc its easy.
i have never put forth that it was hard, or consequences likely and to say otherwise after smartly cutting out them comments that show your wrong... is flat out deceptive.
As for the fact that you personally dont like the play being as easy as it is... that is certainly your perogative. it just doesn't justify adding PVP elements into one particular aspect of the PVE game and not the others that are just as easy.
Proudly skooma free while talks-when-drunk is in mandatory public housing.
YFMV Your Fun May Vary.
First Law of Nerf-o-Dynamics
"The good way I used to get good kills *with good skill* was good but the way others kill me now is bad."1 -
LaiTash✭✭✭Daemons_Bane wrote: »How are you even drawing those comparisons in your head dungeons are one thing, the justice system is another thing entirely
Hmm? Am i incorrect in saying that the current dungeon difficulty is limiting for some players? Why some things can be limited, while others cannot, even if it means a better mmo overall? Yes, better mmo, because mmo is about players and their interplay, limiting player interaction to the point where it's virtually non-existant leads to a bad mmo. I intentionally pointed out that i don't want to party with anyone. By your logic, devs should make all content solo-friendly (even if you're full HA orcish mage). But that would make a bad mmo. The same is absolutely true for justice system.Edited by LaiTash on September 28, 2016 6:37PM1 -
LaiTash✭✭✭Daemons_Bane wrote: »In your example, you are right.. You will most likely fail.. But it will not be due to another player..
Who cares why you fail? And after all, as i said, failing due to another player is absolutely legit for a mmo. Because, in mmo, other players matter (or should matter) by definition.
Edited by LaiTash on September 28, 2016 6:39PM1 -
Daemons_Bane✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Daemons_Bane wrote: »In your example, you are right.. You will most likely fail.. But it will not be due to another player..
Who cares why you fail? And after all, as i said, failing due to another player is absolutely legit for a mmo. Because, in mmo, other players matter (or should matter) by definition.
Disagree again.. To me, MMO means Massively Multiplayer Online, meaning that there other people in the game.. Further, PvE means Player Versus Enviroment.. No where is it stated that just because there are other people, should I be forced to interact with them against my will2 -
Tandor✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Daemons_Bane wrote: »Daemons_Bane wrote: »Some examples I've run across in these discussions is stuff like
A: If the "PvP activation" triggers on bounty size, it sucks for the people who would go for achievements that automatically amass large bounties
B: How would you protect yourself against a ganker with an invisibility potion, without having to change gear/setup?
C: What stops them from camping the hideout entries, nuking any player with an active bounty?
All that stuff is something that needs to be taken care of.. And that is just a few issues.. I saw a suggestion some time ago that I actually liked a lot.. Lets say I'm robbing some merchant in Wayrest, and a player sees it.. Then that players runs over to me and presses E, or whatever you use as activate.. Then I am marked for, lets say 10 secs.. Now if that person that marked me, can get to a guard and alert him via a talk option, within those 10 seconds, then I would automatically be targeted by said guard.. I think that system has potential and could end up being good
A. Risk vs. Reward.
B. Same way I do in PvP, by using the Sentry set (which is cheap) or detection potions.
C. Nothing. But refer to B.
I actually like this idea. Requiring opposing player interaction to identify a target for enforcers.
You don't see a problem when you have to gear for PvP, when you just want to do PvE?
In that particular system, no, because you're not fighting anything else...
It's not like that would require you to throw on PvP gear in the middle of a dungeon or something. We're talking about around town mostly, so...no mobs.
But I'm not a PvPer, I have no interest in PvP. The notion that when I enter a town to engage in PvE activities I should be equipped in PvP gear is both impractical and absurd.
As seen earlier in this thread, there ways to make this type of system with an opt-in mechanic or a threshold to eliminate the PvP element for those that don't want it.
This is all academic since the new designers don't want it at all.
A complete opt-out mechanic is one thing, but a lot of proponents of PvP Justice elements want a bounty threshold which is something altogether different.
But I agree that the whole idea of adding PvP to the Justice System is academic as it's quite clear the developers have rejected it. Fortunately these threads keep popping up to remind them of the wisdom of their decision.3 -
Tandor✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭But I'm not a PvPer, I have no interest in PvP. The notion that when I enter a town to engage in PvE activities I should be equipped in PvP gear is both impractical and absurd.
What's so absurd in that? Will you look funny or stupid in a pvp gear, or is it your religious beliefs or what? What makes you so worried about having to switch gear? There are even *** mods for quick gear switching (no luck for consoles, yes, but it can always be incorporated into the core game). There are even those which do it automatically!
If you can't understand the absurdity of a PvEer with no interest in PvP having to don PvP gear in order to do PvE content then that certainly explains a lot.3 -
STEVIL✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Daemons_Bane wrote: »Some examples I've run across in these discussions is stuff like
A: If the "PvP activation" triggers on bounty size, it sucks for the people who would go for achievements that automatically amass large bounties
B: How would you protect yourself against a ganker with an invisibility potion, without having to change gear/setup?
C: What stops them from camping the hideout entries, nuking any player with an active bounty?
All that stuff is something that needs to be taken care of.. And that is just a few issues.. I saw a suggestion some time ago that I actually liked a lot.. Lets say I'm robbing some merchant in Wayrest, and a player sees it.. Then that players runs over to me and presses E, or whatever you use as activate.. Then I am marked for, lets say 10 secs.. Now if that person that marked me, can get to a guard and alert him via a talk option, within those 10 seconds, then I would automatically be targeted by said guard.. I think that system has potential and could end up being good
Is it as good as seeing a player questing and running over and kiting a nearby mob or boss to draw them into conflict with that questing player who doesn't want to deal with that mob yet, like say is AFK or dealing with his banker?
is it as good ad and as fun as and as should be great if made commonplace as seeing a player questing and needing to kill say c couple dozen crocodiles in a certain area and you running around slaughtering the crocs to make his quest harder to achieve?
in how many other areas of the game would it be fun for other players to be allowed to intervene and interfere and generally make it more difficult to complete the activities and objectives of other players.
You didn't mention whether the criminal would have any chance to stop you, attack you or otherwise prevent you from reporting him? Are you able to interfere and make his objectives harder and yet be untouchable from them?
ASIDE: Who again is the side looking for no risk?
how about this: i play a vampire. You are questing or delving against vampires. So i can run over and use my heals and buffs to help the vamps - making your job more difficult. how cool and fun is that!
if we just recognize how much fun and cool it is for other players to be allowed to step in and make other players objectives much harder to accomplish... in the injustice case basically letting the player expand the guards detection radius - in the vampire case helping them last longer and hit harder - in the crocodile phase making it take longer for them to hunt down the number of crocs.. this cool and fun can be everywhere, right?
there is certainly, i agree, a lot of potential in allowing players to interfere with other players quests and objectives and basically make them harder to achieve. A whole lot of potential. i dont so much agree on the "good" though.Proudly skooma free while talks-when-drunk is in mandatory public housing.
YFMV Your Fun May Vary.
First Law of Nerf-o-Dynamics
"The good way I used to get good kills *with good skill* was good but the way others kill me now is bad."0 -
Daemons_Bane✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Is it as good as seeing a player questing and running over and kiting a nearby mob or boss to draw them into conflict with that questing player who doesn't want to deal with that mob yet, like say is AFK or dealing with his banker?
I'm srry should have specified it a little more.. As I'm in favor of the opt in/out system, it was implied that in this example, you had opted for it to be active.. My bad
Setting that aside, I think you're overdoing it with crocodiles and vampires..Edited by Daemons_Bane on September 28, 2016 6:50PM0 -
STEVIL✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Daemons_Bane wrote: »Daemons_Bane wrote: »Daemons_Bane wrote: »Some examples I've run across in these discussions is stuff like
A: If the "PvP activation" triggers on bounty size, it sucks for the people who would go for achievements that automatically amass large bounties
B: How would you protect yourself against a ganker with an invisibility potion, without having to change gear/setup?
C: What stops them from camping the hideout entries, nuking any player with an active bounty?
All that stuff is something that needs to be taken care of.. And that is just a few issues.. I saw a suggestion some time ago that I actually liked a lot.. Lets say I'm robbing some merchant in Wayrest, and a player sees it.. Then that players runs over to me and presses E, or whatever you use as activate.. Then I am marked for, lets say 10 secs.. Now if that person that marked me, can get to a guard and alert him via a talk option, within those 10 seconds, then I would automatically be targeted by said guard.. I think that system has potential and could end up being good
A. Risk vs. Reward.
B. Same way I do in PvP, by using the Sentry set (which is cheap) or detection potions.
C. Nothing. But refer to B.
I actually like this idea. Requiring opposing player interaction to identify a target for enforcers.
You don't see a problem when you have to gear for PvP, when you just want to do PvE?
In that particular system, no, because you're not fighting anything else...
It's not like that would require you to throw on PvP gear in the middle of a dungeon or something. We're talking about around town mostly, so...no mobs.
But you're asking me to change my gear, which is a big part of my build and my character, to a set which I have to get from PvP vendors, to do my PvE activity
Do you change your gear based on whether your are Healing, Tanking, or DPS'ing?
Ok you do get that he may not think wearing pve gear to do justice is necessary right? he may be wearing his delving gear" for that matter or his "regular pve gear." But to do PVE content having to have and equip a PVP set is what he was referring to.
But, for the record, especially for certain quests, where targets may be rather close to lotsa moving parts, being equipped with gear that reduces detection radius or enables faster movement while stealthed or enables cheaper stealth movement do play a role and can help.Proudly skooma free while talks-when-drunk is in mandatory public housing.
YFMV Your Fun May Vary.
First Law of Nerf-o-Dynamics
"The good way I used to get good kills *with good skill* was good but the way others kill me now is bad."0 -
LaiTash✭✭✭But, for the record, especially for certain quests, where targets may be rather close to lotsa moving parts, being equipped with gear that reduces detection radius or enables faster movement while stealthed or enables cheaper stealth movement do play a role and can help.
That's up to you to prioritize.But to do PVE content having to have and equip a PVP set is what he was referring to.
So... what? God forbids this?Edited by LaiTash on September 28, 2016 7:04PM0 -
STEVIL✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Daemons_Bane wrote: »Is it as good as seeing a player questing and running over and kiting a nearby mob or boss to draw them into conflict with that questing player who doesn't want to deal with that mob yet, like say is AFK or dealing with his banker?
I'm srry should have specified it a little more.. As I'm in favor of the opt in/out system, it was implied that in this example, you had opted for it to be active.. My bad
Setting that aside, I think you're overdoing it with crocodiles and vampires..
the reason i come to crocodiles and vampires is that so often here it seems there is a subtext of "stealing is bad and should be unproductive" and i want to keep to the front that "stealing is bad" is actually within this world very contextual and very circumstantial, just like killing innocents is, and so its not an easy out justification for why player-interference is justified.
i am all in favor of adding injustice content to cyrodil - red-flag containers and stuff in your home areas so you can steal from them and gather bounty if noticed, be attacked. Allow "yellow" NPCs in those areas you can likewise kill and rob and bounty etc.
Whether or not i am for an opt-in or not for open world depends on its details and there would be a lot of details. but it sounds an awful lot like a PVP opt-in for world-wide justice an invitation to allow mass combat PVP style inside PVE cities or villages or whatever and thats not something i would go for. if the details includes restrictions similar to dueling is using, that could mitigate that but again, so far mentioned of those except by me.
Dueling BTW has the following restrictions:
limit of number of duels in an area - to prevent it being a mass and overwhelm the non-duelers play.
Automatic opt-out: if you check the box, you cannot get offered duels. You dont get interrupted.
REQUIRED ACCEPTANCE: Even if not opted out, you have to agree to each and every specific instance of dueling and can just say no and walk away without any consequence.
No CONSEQUENCE: A loss in a duel doesn't cost you gear repairs, doesn't cost you gold, doesn't cost you anything except maybe if you used up an expendable resource in the fight win or lose. if you DIE you even get a free rezzy to the same spot so not even a soul gem or walk of shame from the wayshrine.
ASIDE
NOTE the utter lack of consequences for failure involved in that PVP activity... contrast with all the rhetorical flourishes about how PVE justice players want no consequence for their play. i find it amusing myself, that disconnect.
Seems to me if we wanted to make PVP justice as hardcore tough and "there are consequences" as PVPers have it in casual PVP play it would start with "once you opt-in you have no chance of losing gear or paying bounty if caught by a PVP enforcer"
EDIT TO ADD:
oh and one more thing... back to the gators and vamps and making it harder to complete content...
a short while ago in another thread one proposal would allow enforcers to place fake safe boxes which when opened by criminals did bad things like bounty or damage or stealth shutdown etc (and iirc of course no corresponding red herring trap for enforcers... cant have PVP player putting stuff at risk.)
So for that proposal, folks running the quests, repeatable quests, requiring safe boxes looted from areas ... these would be a definite analog to the croc thing... especially for newer players who seem most at risk from these proposals. (Completely coincidental of course not at all by design to serve up more newbies to the PVP grinder..)
Edited by STEVIL on September 28, 2016 8:06PMProudly skooma free while talks-when-drunk is in mandatory public housing.
YFMV Your Fun May Vary.
First Law of Nerf-o-Dynamics
"The good way I used to get good kills *with good skill* was good but the way others kill me now is bad."0