Please Finish The Justice System

STEVIL

bellanca6561n wrote: »

STEVIL wrote: »

bellanca6561n wrote: »

Divinius wrote: »

Oh hey, another 20-page thread about adding PvP to the Justice system.

So to anyone that's read the whole thing: Same stuff as always? Anything new since the last several threads?

You could read it....or skim it and find out that way.

I have certainly enjoyed this discussion because it proves a vanishing truth I've long believed: you can't learn anything by talking with people who agree with you.

That fact hasn't vanished. Facts, as John Adams once said, are persistent things. How widely they're embraced, however....oh hell I'm getting off the point....again *sigh*

Meanwhile, of course, this system remains not just the game's sore thumb, but its severed limb....dropped on top of the cake....at the wedding reception.

Only action left to my characters is to make murders uncomfortable. They stomp them with their horses. Follow them everywhere. Give chase when they try to mount and run. Have gotten two kills this way, oddly enough, in Daggerfall when they'd flee off one of the high walls.

Is that PvP?

Mostly they just find a wayshrine and leave the area. Perhaps that's what they were doing when they suicided.

However I do have a constructive proposal. Let's give the Pocket Mammoth some special abilities....here's one with my Imperial, Erana. His name is Rommel.

No, no, I'm not suggesting making pets tactical as they are in Ultima Online. No "All Kill" commands...noooo. Rather, I'd like to be able to target a player and have my wee mammoth smack, smack, smack it with his trunk, pausing only to issue long, angry elephant trumpet sounds.

First bold - or to other folks its a fine system, fun to play offering different challenges than the bulk of the content, that has a lot of potential for expansion.

Secnnd bold - no i dont think thats called PVP. I think intentionally doing things to annoy other players and drive them out of an area in PVE content is called something else... and it does indeed seems popular and even acceptable behavior in some circles. not so much in others. That was very informative, so thanks.

*sighs*

Humor is subjective so let me be plain.

To review, I began this thread because that "GAHHH...UHHCHUK..." sound of sudden violent death IN A TOWN, along with corpses lying about the streets seemed beyond bizarre to me. And the initial reaction was typical for this venue.

These are not bad people. I don't imagine they are. This game sanctioned behavior is not a reflection on them. But this isn't GT-f*cking-A. Run down all the old ladies you want in a single player game. Put all the anti-social player paths you want in all the single player games you care to make. In that setting it's more catharsis than a reflection of who you are.

But in a multiplayer game?

Again, and I know you agree to an extent, it's bad game design. More than that it's terrible multiplayer game design because it's one of many soup sandwich single player options that were simply thrown out there from no discernible Archimedean point other than it references something in an earlier single player game using the same license.

The thieves don't work in groups. There's no big heist. The assassins don't work in groups either...they're just assassins after all. You're not changing an existing leadership order. Thus this sanctioned sanctioning of NPCs isn't just disturbing to those with sound turned on, it's - to me - a missed opportunity.

You see this as an incremental process. My experience tells me it's not.

So I treat it like a multiplayer game. Yes, they-annoy-me-so-I-annoy-them is hardly a satisfying mpgame experience. But it's all I've got here. And if, as you say it's popular, what's wrong with that? They can annoy me but I'm not allowed to annoy them?

You really don't mean that.

If they want people to do nothing, then ditch that sound effect and have the corpses vanish when the NPCs respawn. Or just have the killer hear it and don't show us the dead NPCs. If assassins are pursuing a disconnected game feature then disconnect it from everyone else.

But I cannot accept that this whole high-dollar vast creation, this intricate web of myriad server clusters connecting thousands and thousands of people is merely to enable each player to have their own single player experience.

In both the TG and Db lines of quests, thieves and assassins often team up in twos or threes iirc to accomplish larger missions. there is an organizaed structure, not just lone wolves. Also, in PVE injustice play there are some targets where it can be easier for a two-man team to have one character commit petty crime in sight of a guard, keep him occupied for the 10-15 secs, to let the other grab the jucier prize unmolested and split the proceeds - especially if the "decoy" can get away or just accrue a minor bounty but take a long time doing so.

I said the behavior you describe is popular in "some circles" and if you want to read that as somehow "acceptable" or "nothing wrong with it" that says something. As for this...

They can annoy me but I'm not allowed to annoy them?

If you dont see the difference... they are playing their game and you are not an element they are considering one bit for which you then decide to deliberately do things for the purpose of annoying them - we have no middle ground or areas of overlap in this regard.

You are not alone.

On the other thread much the same argument was put forth...
if you find their playstyle offensive, even if it was not aimed at you or involved with you, that entitles you to use whatever means allowed to actively annoy the other player or actively interfere with that play.

basically, the idea is that TAKING OFFENSE at something someone does somehow self=permits you to intentionally offend someone else.

Not an island i want a part of.

But as for this game, i haven't read the code of conduct or terms of service recently but i am pretty sure their official policy is not vigilante style ***-for-tat eye-for-eye when it comes to annoiying or harrassing, but instead to report it and if they find it as unacceptable behavior they will do something about it.

JKorr

LaiTash wrote: »

JKorr wrote: »

Actively hate might be going a bit far, but I'd be perfectly content to quarantine all the pvp on a separate server, so all the bloodthirsty psychopathic serial killers could feed on each other to their heart's content and the pve players who actually want a story in their game could have access to all the areas without the toxic epeen waving gankers who live to ruin other player's experience.

Wow. Now that's what i call carebear. Well you should already be perfectly content because as of now "all the bloodthirsty psychopathic serial killers" and "toxic epeen waving gankers who live to ruin other player's experience" are effectively confined in Cyrodiil, even tho zeni stated more than once that PvP is "endgame" in this mmo.

Yep. Good thing MMOs don't really have an "end". Kinda like the single player Elder Scrolls. Content is still there, dlcs are available, and no one who doesn't want to deal with teh drama of "my sword is bigger than your sword" has to do "endgame" content. My whole point in playing a mmo is to continue playing, not hit the endgame content, finish the game, and quit. But then I still play Morrowind with the expansions and mods, and Oblivion with the dlc/expansions and mods, and Skyrim with the dlc and mods.Not quite sure how I'd recognize endgame content anyway.

When the pvp endgame content is done and an emperor gets crowned, do you watch the credits and move on to the next game?

Honestly, I hope the super leet pvper who kept shooting me in the back while I ran away from the crafting station without even drawing my weapon had fun for the two minutes it took to kill me. I should have thanked him. When he finally killed me I got to respawn where I could leave without running more of a gauntlet to get out. Thank the Divines there's autodecline for dueling.

bellanca6561n

STEVIL wrote: »

They can annoy me but I'm not allowed to annoy them?

If you dont see the difference... they are playing their game and you are not an element they are considering one bit for which you then decide to deliberately do things for the purpose of annoying them - we have no middle ground or areas of overlap in this regard.

You are not alone.

On the other thread much the same argument was put forth...
if you find their playstyle offensive, even if it was not aimed at you or involved with you, that entitles you to use whatever means allowed to actively annoy the other player or actively interfere with that play.

basically, the idea is that TAKING OFFENSE at something someone does somehow self=permits you to intentionally offend someone else.

Not an island i want a part of.

That's why multiplayer online games died. Aside from Eve Online and Ultima Online, they simply don't exist anymore.

For an mpgame to exist what you do has to include the consent of people other than you. You are not entitled to do something just because the game allow you to do it.

And this is why mpgames were never intended, and never became, a mainstream entertainment medium. ESO, as I have said, is a game you play online. It is not a multiplayer online game.