PTS Patch Notes - Towers have no doors???

Sandman929

Daggerfall_Bones wrote: »

It's a door. The problem is the tower is industructable when player OMGxxPWNxxFACE takes the flag for the 1000th time. They cannot be reasoned with and cannot be stopped, they will take the flag no matter what.

If the tower remained destructible or at least the door problem solved. I've been a part of plenty of tower farms, won't miss them.

They should make the towers, mile gates and bridge towers all neutral and destructable. Then have NPC's repair them over time.

The best possible idea, which is why it won't happen.

Sandman929

The tower is just terrain, it doesn't have to be captured to take a resource. But I'm not a fan of leaving the 20+ "small man" inside of it and just to have them come out and pop the keep if left alone, and then retreat to the safety behind the door over and over.
Get rid of the doors, or make the towers always breakable.

THEDKEXPERIENCE

I love how the main defense seems to be, "but how can my group of 6 hide from 50 bad guys?"

I dunno, maybe the entire rest of the map?

I've been on both sides of the tower farm, and as stated earlier I am part of one of the groups with the man power to do something about it, but even then it's about a 1 in 5 proposition that 90% of my group won't get insta-killed by death by door. Conversely, I've litterally eaten dinner while tower farming, only keeping one finger on the Y button to radiant destruction a helpless victim.

If anything getting rid of these doors will go a long way to crowning a real emperor in the future. Maybe if they then made door repairs only worth 1 AP the actual best players would get Emp.

Elong

God_flakes wrote: »

dashima wrote: »

Summary of this thread's comments:

Smallscale players: Yes, this change empowers zergs.
Zerg players: I don't understand how removing los hurts smallscale players. That time I got farmed by 5 guys in my 24 man... that was cause of the door exploit. Thank god we can't get farmed anymore!

Well, at least now when zergs get farmed in towers they don't have an excuse anymore as to why they got wiped.

And now the those uber cool tower farming small man groups have to rely on whatever skill they think they possess verses a door delay.

How many f'ing times have people got to say it, you don't run into a tower to farm, you run in there to defend yourself against overwhelming numbers.

It's not about skill for them, it's survival.

Sandman929

Elong wrote: »

God_flakes wrote: »

dashima wrote: »

Summary of this thread's comments:

Smallscale players: Yes, this change empowers zergs.
Zerg players: I don't understand how removing los hurts smallscale players. That time I got farmed by 5 guys in my 24 man... that was cause of the door exploit. Thank god we can't get farmed anymore!

Well, at least now when zergs get farmed in towers they don't have an excuse anymore as to why they got wiped.

And now the those uber cool tower farming small man groups have to rely on whatever skill they think they possess verses a door delay.

How many f'ing times have people got to say it, you don't run into a tower to farm, you run in there to defend yourself against overwhelming numbers.

It's not about skill for them, it's survival.

There you have it, tower farming is a myth.

Elong

Sandman929 wrote: »

Elong wrote: »

God_flakes wrote: »

dashima wrote: »

Summary of this thread's comments:

Smallscale players: Yes, this change empowers zergs.
Zerg players: I don't understand how removing los hurts smallscale players. That time I got farmed by 5 guys in my 24 man... that was cause of the door exploit. Thank god we can't get farmed anymore!

Well, at least now when zergs get farmed in towers they don't have an excuse anymore as to why they got wiped.

And now the those uber cool tower farming small man groups have to rely on whatever skill they think they possess verses a door delay.

How many f'ing times have people got to say it, you don't run into a tower to farm, you run in there to defend yourself against overwhelming numbers.

It's not about skill for them, it's survival.

There you have it, tower farming is a myth.

That's not what I said. I'm talking about small man groups and how they survive outnumbered. The only tower farms I've seen of late on TF have been full raids stacking inside, which is a terrible farm, because the AP from being in a group that big is awful.

Sandman929

Maybe I'm way off base here, but in my stealthing around travels I've seen many a "small man" take a resource and wait for the numbers that they then have to escape from behind the door. It's not quite as "Oooops, now we have to farm" as some would suggest.

Sandman929

Not that there's anything wrong with it. I've been on both sides of the door. But I'm not sad to see the doors gone.

Elong

Sandman929 wrote: »

Maybe I'm way off base here, but in my stealthing around travels I've seen many a "small man" take a resource and wait for the numbers that they then have to escape from behind the door. It's not quite as "Oooops, now we have to farm" as some would suggest.

Question, why is farming regarded as a negative thing?

To me, setting up a place to fight other people away from the main battle is a nice change, and for me personally I don't go looking for AP, just fights. It's about game enjoyment, AP is simply a result of that. The currency is pretty worthless anyway.

Sandman929

Elong wrote: »

Sandman929 wrote: »

Maybe I'm way off base here, but in my stealthing around travels I've seen many a "small man" take a resource and wait for the numbers that they then have to escape from behind the door. It's not quite as "Oooops, now we have to farm" as some would suggest.

Question, why is farming regarded as a negative thing?

To me, setting up a place to fight other people away from the main battle is a nice change, and for me personally I don't go looking for AP, just fights. It's about game enjoyment, AP is simply a result of that. The currency is pretty worthless anyway.

I don't view it negatively, aside from the lag potential of stacking and spamming. If it's not exploiting, it's all good in my book. Still, not sad to see the doors go.

Elong

Sandman929 wrote: »

Elong wrote: »

Sandman929 wrote: »

Maybe I'm way off base here, but in my stealthing around travels I've seen many a "small man" take a resource and wait for the numbers that they then have to escape from behind the door. It's not quite as "Oooops, now we have to farm" as some would suggest.

Question, why is farming regarded as a negative thing?

To me, setting up a place to fight other people away from the main battle is a nice change, and for me personally I don't go looking for AP, just fights. It's about game enjoyment, AP is simply a result of that. The currency is pretty worthless anyway.

I don't view it negatively, aside from the lag potential of stacking and spamming. If it's not exploiting, it's all good in my book. Still, not sad to see the doors go.

Yeah I mean the more I think about it I'm not totally bothered about doors either way, in fact they're a pain in the arse trying to get into them to escape the zerg! I know you're on Xbox so we have different servers, but the lag has been really minimal of late and the only thing that creates it is the 60 people who come and stand around the tower lol.

I'm sure some people are all about that AP, all about farming as many bads as possible, but I reckon they're in the minority and most of us just want a good fight, it's a game, that's what we're all here for.

THEDKEXPERIENCE

Elong wrote: »

Sandman929 wrote: »

Maybe I'm way off base here, but in my stealthing around travels I've seen many a "small man" take a resource and wait for the numbers that they then have to escape from behind the door. It's not quite as "Oooops, now we have to farm" as some would suggest.

Question, why is farming regarded as a negative thing?

To me, setting up a place to fight other people away from the main battle is a nice change, and for me personally I don't go looking for AP, just fights. It's about game enjoyment, AP is simply a result of that. The currency is pretty worthless anyway.

Farming is a bad thing for a variety of reasons.

- It crowns Emperors who aren't actually good at the game.
- It ensures imbalance by giving the same farmers gold rewards which they can then sell for 100s of thousands of gold.
- On most campaigns it adds nothing to the campaign scores.
- It contributes to new players never wanting to step into Cyrodiil.

Mostly though it's just a cheap ploy to raise your score. I'd be interested to know how many tower farmers in here get angry in other threads about people who use spells that "show no skill"?

Elong

danielpatrickkeaneub17_ESO wrote: »

Elong wrote: »

Sandman929 wrote: »

Maybe I'm way off base here, but in my stealthing around travels I've seen many a "small man" take a resource and wait for the numbers that they then have to escape from behind the door. It's not quite as "Oooops, now we have to farm" as some would suggest.

Question, why is farming regarded as a negative thing?

To me, setting up a place to fight other people away from the main battle is a nice change, and for me personally I don't go looking for AP, just fights. It's about game enjoyment, AP is simply a result of that. The currency is pretty worthless anyway.

Farming is a bad thing for a variety of reasons.

- It crowns Emperors who aren't actually good at the game.
- It ensures imbalance by giving the same farmers gold rewards which they can then sell for 100s of thousands of gold.
- On most campaigns it adds nothing to the campaign scores.
- It contributes to new players never wanting to step into Cyrodiil.

Mostly though it's just a cheap ploy to raise your score. I'd be interested to know how many tower farmers in here get angry in other threads about people who use spells that "show no skill"?

There will be others I'm sure who will counter all those points, I disagree with them all as well.

-If you earn enough AP to be Emp, grats, that's no mean feat and requires a LOT of gameplay.
-Again, if you play enough and earn enough, you deserve those rewards, of which the majority are nigh on worthless thanks to RNG, and the time spent put into earning those rewards would be far better running hard mode trials, so the return on investment is a terrible gold making idea.
-I've seen 2 raids of EP consistently take keeps deep in AD territory for 2 months straight and not hold them come evaluation time, therefore also not adding to the campaign score. Should zergers be targeted in the same way?
-New players should be encouraged by older heads to simply learn ways to bring the farmers to their knees, it's not hard, it's not breaking the atom, it's either A) bring the tower down before flipping the flag, or Just. Walk. Away.

Also, I might add, I don't care what anyone else does with their time in the game. You bought the game, you play how you wish. Why are so many people so interested in telling others how to spend their time on what is supposed to be recreation and fun?

THEDKEXPERIENCE

Elong wrote: »

danielpatrickkeaneub17_ESO wrote: »

Elong wrote: »

Sandman929 wrote: »

Maybe I'm way off base here, but in my stealthing around travels I've seen many a "small man" take a resource and wait for the numbers that they then have to escape from behind the door. It's not quite as "Oooops, now we have to farm" as some would suggest.

Question, why is farming regarded as a negative thing?

To me, setting up a place to fight other people away from the main battle is a nice change, and for me personally I don't go looking for AP, just fights. It's about game enjoyment, AP is simply a result of that. The currency is pretty worthless anyway.

Farming is a bad thing for a variety of reasons.

- It crowns Emperors who aren't actually good at the game.
- It ensures imbalance by giving the same farmers gold rewards which they can then sell for 100s of thousands of gold.
- On most campaigns it adds nothing to the campaign scores.
- It contributes to new players never wanting to step into Cyrodiil.

Mostly though it's just a cheap ploy to raise your score. I'd be interested to know how many tower farmers in here get angry in other threads about people who use spells that "show no skill"?

There will be others I'm sure who will counter all those points, I disagree with them all as well.

-If you earn enough AP to be Emp, grats, that's no mean feat and requires a LOT of gameplay.
-Again, if you play enough and earn enough, you deserve those rewards, of which the majority are nigh on worthless thanks to RNG, and the time spent put into earning those rewards would be far better running hard mode trials, so the return on investment is a terrible gold making idea.
-I've seen 2 raids of EP consistently take keeps deep in AD territory for 2 months straight and not hold them come evaluation time, therefore also not adding to the campaign score. Should zergers be targeted in the same way?
-New players should be encouraged by older heads to simply learn ways to bring the farmers to their knees, it's not hard, it's not breaking the atom, it's either A) bring the tower down before flipping the flag, or Just. Walk. Away.

Also, I might add, I don't care what anyone else does with their time in the game. You bought the game, you play how you wish. Why are so many people so interested in telling others how to spend their time on what is supposed to be recreation and fun?

That's the farthest thing from what I'm doing. If you enjoy it, go for it. But, clearly someone at ZOS thinks it needs to stop and I agree with them.

Elong

danielpatrickkeaneub17_ESO wrote: »

Elong wrote: »

danielpatrickkeaneub17_ESO wrote: »

Elong wrote: »

Sandman929 wrote: »

Maybe I'm way off base here, but in my stealthing around travels I've seen many a "small man" take a resource and wait for the numbers that they then have to escape from behind the door. It's not quite as "Oooops, now we have to farm" as some would suggest.

Question, why is farming regarded as a negative thing?

To me, setting up a place to fight other people away from the main battle is a nice change, and for me personally I don't go looking for AP, just fights. It's about game enjoyment, AP is simply a result of that. The currency is pretty worthless anyway.

Farming is a bad thing for a variety of reasons.

- It crowns Emperors who aren't actually good at the game.
- It ensures imbalance by giving the same farmers gold rewards which they can then sell for 100s of thousands of gold.
- On most campaigns it adds nothing to the campaign scores.
- It contributes to new players never wanting to step into Cyrodiil.

Mostly though it's just a cheap ploy to raise your score. I'd be interested to know how many tower farmers in here get angry in other threads about people who use spells that "show no skill"?

There will be others I'm sure who will counter all those points, I disagree with them all as well.

-If you earn enough AP to be Emp, grats, that's no mean feat and requires a LOT of gameplay.
-Again, if you play enough and earn enough, you deserve those rewards, of which the majority are nigh on worthless thanks to RNG, and the time spent put into earning those rewards would be far better running hard mode trials, so the return on investment is a terrible gold making idea.
-I've seen 2 raids of EP consistently take keeps deep in AD territory for 2 months straight and not hold them come evaluation time, therefore also not adding to the campaign score. Should zergers be targeted in the same way?
-New players should be encouraged by older heads to simply learn ways to bring the farmers to their knees, it's not hard, it's not breaking the atom, it's either A) bring the tower down before flipping the flag, or Just. Walk. Away.

Also, I might add, I don't care what anyone else does with their time in the game. You bought the game, you play how you wish. Why are so many people so interested in telling others how to spend their time on what is supposed to be recreation and fun?

That's the farthest thing from what I'm doing. If you enjoy it, go for it. But, clearly someone at ZOS thinks it needs to stop and I agree with them.

My last sentence wasn't aimed at you in particular, just players in general. I don't do it either. I do run into a tower when a resource gets overwhelmed, but for my own safety lol. I'm merely offering a counter argument.

Lore_lai

LeifErickson wrote: »

I very much agree with this change. The doors were buggy and didn't work half the time. And when they did work, usually a NB would piggyback with you through the door. I don't see why there is all of this rage at this new change. I feel like it will make combat around resources much more fun when you can go into the tower whenever you want. I don't really get how this stop tower farming either.

I doubt anyone is raging. Most of us who are against this change have presented our arguments in a reasonable fashion.
The issue the way I see it is not the door itself, but what this change represents.
And that is Zenimax's willingness to do so much hand-holding, regardless if it hurts small-scale or not.

There are so many issues and broken things in PvP that we cannot control. Getting tower farmed or not is 100% in the hands of the player. But no, we need Papa Zenimax to come and break down the door and kick out those evil tower farmers.

Sandman929 wrote: »

Maybe I'm way off base here, but in my stealthing around travels I've seen many a "small man" take a resource and wait for the numbers that they then have to escape from behind the door. It's not quite as "Oooops, now we have to farm" as some would suggest.

Or maybe we go there because we are looking for a decent fight for once and we're hoping the enemy won't bring 30+ to take a resource?
Or is there no other reason to go and take an objective but to "farm"?

Jaronking

@ZOS_BrianWheeler can you tell us why you removed the doors from resources towers its a way for us to understand this change and how it affects our gameplay.

IxSTALKERxI

For those implying that tower doors cause unskilled players to somehow get #1 on the leaderboard and get crowned emperor, you seem to be misinformed or haven't played the game recently.

I haven't seen many tower farms on NA PC in the last 6-12 months that have yielded what I would consider competitive AP gains. The only exception would be on Azura Star against bad players. Much better to fight where you can get consistent action, around keep defenses, transit lines and on the actual resource itself but rarely in the tower. I think I saw german get most of his AP on last trueflame campaign between sej - BRK and on alessia bridge to be in #1. I'd hardly refer to him as being unskilled either lol. Tbh I got a lot of my AP zerg surfing and playing long hours to get ahead of most on the leaderboard, but once again not really any tower farming involved. Sneaky is #1 atm blowing up 10 people at a time - once again no tower doors involved and once again another skilled player.

Ernest145

IxSTALKERxI wrote: »

For those implying that tower doors cause unskilled players to somehow get #1 on the leaderboard and get crowned emperor, you seem to be misinformed or haven't played the game recently.

I haven't seen many tower farms on NA PC in the last 6-12 months that have yielded what I would consider competitive AP gains. The only exception would be on Azura Star against bad players. Much better to fight where you can get consistent action, around keep defenses, transit lines and on the actual resource itself but rarely in the tower. I think I saw german get most of his AP on last trueflame campaign between sej - BRK and on alessia bridge to be in #1. I'd hardly refer to him as being unskilled either lol. Tbh I got a lot of my AP zerg surfing and playing long hours to get ahead of most on the leaderboard, but once again not really any tower farming involved. Sneaky is #1 atm blowing up 10 people at a time - once again no tower doors involved and once again another skilled player.

This^^^

Funny how people think tower farming makes a ton of ap and it's the reason why people get high on the leaderboards. To make ap is just playing a lot and know where to go on the map, most of the time you can make the most ap just zerg surfing since the factions like moving in hordes and you get really good ticks. Most if not all the time players run into the tower is because there is just too many players to fight and if they run either they will die to gap closerspam, radiant spam, snipe spam, etc. or the players just won' follow. I'm not saying you cant funnel and get good wipes but most of the time that doesn't happen if you do not have enough players.

Meilinka

I think at this point all I can do is sigh, start the Benny Hill music and.....*runs around, in, up, down and out the tower*

And back to bed I go.

THEDKEXPERIENCE

Ernest145 wrote: »

IxSTALKERxI wrote: »

For those implying that tower doors cause unskilled players to somehow get #1 on the leaderboard and get crowned emperor, you seem to be misinformed or haven't played the game recently.

I haven't seen many tower farms on NA PC in the last 6-12 months that have yielded what I would consider competitive AP gains. The only exception would be on Azura Star against bad players. Much better to fight where you can get consistent action, around keep defenses, transit lines and on the actual resource itself but rarely in the tower. I think I saw german get most of his AP on last trueflame campaign between sej - BRK and on alessia bridge to be in #1. I'd hardly refer to him as being unskilled either lol. Tbh I got a lot of my AP zerg surfing and playing long hours to get ahead of most on the leaderboard, but once again not really any tower farming involved. Sneaky is #1 atm blowing up 10 people at a time - once again no tower doors involved and once again another skilled player.

This^^^

Funny how people think tower farming makes a ton of ap and it's the reason why people get high on the leaderboards. To make ap is just playing a lot and know where to go on the map, most of the time you can make the most ap just zerg surfing since the factions like moving in hordes and you get really good ticks. Most if not all the time players run into the tower is because there is just too many players to fight and if they run either they will die to gap closerspam, radiant spam, snipe spam, etc. or the players just won' follow. I'm not saying you cant funnel and get good wipes but most of the time that doesn't happen if you do not have enough players.

Clearly you guys don't play on console. There are entire guilds who ONLY do this. Yes, most of them are good players, but the only reason that they get Emp (as opposed to say 60th in their rankings) is because of this. It was much more prevalent 6 months ago however.

Regardless, you're kidding yourself if you don't think this will have a massive change to whom gets gold rewards.

Ernest145

danielpatrickkeaneub17_ESO wrote: »

Ernest145 wrote: »

IxSTALKERxI wrote: »

For those implying that tower doors cause unskilled players to somehow get #1 on the leaderboard and get crowned emperor, you seem to be misinformed or haven't played the game recently.

I haven't seen many tower farms on NA PC in the last 6-12 months that have yielded what I would consider competitive AP gains. The only exception would be on Azura Star against bad players. Much better to fight where you can get consistent action, around keep defenses, transit lines and on the actual resource itself but rarely in the tower. I think I saw german get most of his AP on last trueflame campaign between sej - BRK and on alessia bridge to be in #1. I'd hardly refer to him as being unskilled either lol. Tbh I got a lot of my AP zerg surfing and playing long hours to get ahead of most on the leaderboard, but once again not really any tower farming involved. Sneaky is #1 atm blowing up 10 people at a time - once again no tower doors involved and once again another skilled player.

This^^^

Funny how people think tower farming makes a ton of ap and it's the reason why people get high on the leaderboards. To make ap is just playing a lot and know where to go on the map, most of the time you can make the most ap just zerg surfing since the factions like moving in hordes and you get really good ticks. Most if not all the time players run into the tower is because there is just too many players to fight and if they run either they will die to gap closerspam, radiant spam, snipe spam, etc. or the players just won' follow. I'm not saying you cant funnel and get good wipes but most of the time that doesn't happen if you do not have enough players.

Clearly you guys don't play on console. There are entire guilds who ONLY do this. Yes, most of them are good players, but the only reason that they get Emp (as opposed to say 60th in their rankings) is because of this. It was much more prevalent 6 months ago however.

Regardless, you're kidding yourself if you don't think this will have a massive change to whom gets gold rewards.

Well I was unaware about consoles, but my experience comes from NA PC so that is why I feel the way I do.

IxSTALKERxI

Yeah true, probably different on consoles. Says a lot about the console community if they are all getting farmed hard in towers.

Lava_Croft

So after more than two years of telling *** to stop going into the tower one by one and get farmed, after two years of telling *** to not take the resource and first siege the tower down, ZOS has done what ZOS consistently does and dumbs the game down for the ***.

Sigh.

r.jan_emailb16_ESO

If only this game had a way to avoid being CC'd and instakilled when entering through doors... you know, things like Immovability Potions, Rapid Maneuvers, Barriers! They should really implement this.

Cinbri

Lava_Croft wrote: »

So after more than two years of telling *** to stop going into the tower one by one and get farmed, after two years of telling *** to not take the resource and first siege the tower down, ZOS has done what ZOS consistently does and dumbs the game down for the ***.

Sigh.

You can not enter towers, you can run wherever you want in Cyro or dungeons or trials or not log in game at all, but it won't change fact that somewhere in Cyro someone using flawed mechanic of abusing doors after intentionally loosing resource to gain unnatural advantage over enemies...Oh, wait ZOS fixed it now.

Lava_Croft

r.jan_emailb16_ESO wrote: »

If only this game had a way to avoid being CC'd and instakilled when entering through doors... you know, things like Immovability Potions, Rapid Maneuvers, Barriers! They should really implement this.

I think your thought process is incompatible with that of ZOS and a large part of ESO's player base.

Darnathian

Cinbri wrote: »

Lava_Croft wrote: »

So after more than two years of telling *** to stop going into the tower one by one and get farmed, after two years of telling *** to not take the resource and first siege the tower down, ZOS has done what ZOS consistently does and dumbs the game down for the ***.

Sigh.

You can not enter towers, you can run wherever you want in Cyro or dungeons or trials or not log in game at all, but it won't change fact that somewhere in Cyro someone using flawed mechanic of abusing doors after intentionally loosing resource to gain unnatural advantage over enemies...Oh, wait ZOS fixed it now.

100% agree. Is still a choke point. Now u cant abuse the delay from the door.

Those complaining were surely the ones abusing it.

A point that close to a keep should not be that easily defensable.

Zos. Please put a tower out in the middle of no where with a door so all the 1vxers and small scalers have a place to go. Then the pugs that want to be farmed by a broke mechanic will go and not affect map control by those actually playing the game.

Lava_Croft

Darnathian wrote: »

Cinbri wrote: »

Lava_Croft wrote: »

So after more than two years of telling *** to stop going into the tower one by one and get farmed, after two years of telling *** to not take the resource and first siege the tower down, ZOS has done what ZOS consistently does and dumbs the game down for the ***.

Sigh.

You can not enter towers, you can run wherever you want in Cyro or dungeons or trials or not log in game at all, but it won't change fact that somewhere in Cyro someone using flawed mechanic of abusing doors after intentionally loosing resource to gain unnatural advantage over enemies...Oh, wait ZOS fixed it now.

100% agree. Is still a choke point. Now u cant abuse the delay from the door.

Those complaining were surely the ones abusing it.

A point that close to a keep should not be that easily defensable.

Zos. Please put a tower out in the middle of no where with a door so all the 1vxers and small scalers have a place to go. Then the pugs that want to be farmed by a broke mechanic will go and not affect map control by those actually playing the game.

Just what ESO needs, gameplay Gestapo trying to dictate others on how to really play the game.

Jaronking

IxSTALKERxI wrote: »

Yeah true, probably different on consoles. Says a lot about the console community if they are all getting farmed hard in towers.

It's no where as bad as it used to be most of us know how to break tower farms now.When the game first came out it was bad players didn't know what to do now its easier .