NB's 2 button spam need some serious nerf

Perwulf

There are several ways to counter them yes but you have to sacrifice one of your abilities for magelight, expert hunter & etc. which is in fact very low duration with high cost, even so the animation cast of those skills (even with animation canceling) will leave you open and you'll just drop dead the second you cast it. Literally the most frustrating class to face atm specially in zerg and the fact that every one runs night blades since august well I guess it's fotm right now?. Anyways they just spam ambush>suprise attack doing tons of damage while having tons of mobility and survivability at disposal and not to mention when odds are not in their favor they just cloak dodgeroll forever or simply use fear then spam 2 buttons again.

wookikiller95

What are u playing?

Templar? 1 button spam beam
Sorc? Shield Stacking like a pro
Dk? Nvm... There is no OP skill for DK

Stoopid_Nwah

Sounds like you're having more problems with stamblades tbh. In that case, it's more likely shuffle+velidreth/vipers/eternal hunt(or widowmaker)+incap+the fact that stamina is king now that is causing you all of this frustration.

Please keep all nerfs away from my magblades kthx.

Perwulf

wookikiller95 wrote: »

What are u playing?

Templar? 1 button spam beam
Sorc? Shield Stacking like a pro
Dk? Nvm... There is no OP skill for DK

Stamina templar with no slot available for stealth detectors and running at 250-300 ping which is impossible to counter burst nb's. Hey DK's got dragon leap i find it very useful instead of DB, it literally can wipe zerg better than db.

Stoopid_Nwah wrote: »

Sounds like you're having more problems with stamblades tbh. In that case, it's more likely shuffle+velidreth/vipers/eternal hunt(or widowmaker)+incap+the fact that stamina is king now that is causing you all of this frustration.

Please keep all nerfs away from my magblades kthx.

Would not call it a problem but more of annoyance specially fighting more than 1 nb and with fear draining your resources due to the stupid slow break free animation while getting burst down, it's when the problem starts, block mitigation won't work, dodge works but with fatigue you won't survive that long.

susmitds

ravenarc wrote: »

wookikiller95 wrote: »

What are u playing?

Templar? 1 button spam beam
Sorc? Shield Stacking like a pro
Dk? Nvm... There is no OP skill for DK

Stamina templar with no slot available for stealth detectors and running at 250-300 ping which is impossible to counter burst nb's. Hey DK's got dragon leap i find it very useful instead of DB, it literally can wipe zerg better than db.

Stoopid_Nwah wrote: »

Sounds like you're having more problems with stamblades tbh. In that case, it's more likely shuffle+velidreth/vipers/eternal hunt(or widowmaker)+incap+the fact that stamina is king now that is causing you all of this frustration.

Please keep all nerfs away from my magblades kthx.

Would not call it a problem but more of annoyance specially fighting more than 1 nb and with fear draining your resources due to the stupid slow break free animation while getting burst down, it's when the problem starts, block mitigation won't work, dodge works but with fatigue you won't survive that long.

If you are having trouble with stamblades as a stamplar, you are doing things wrong. While, stamblades have the advantage from stealth, in the open world, stamplars destroy stamblades. In fact the only way for a stamblade to kill a equally skilled stamplar is by stealth burst.

Apherius

Stoopid_Nwah wrote: »

Sounds like you're having more problems with stamblades tbh. In that case, it's more likely shuffle+velidreth/vipers/eternal hunt(or widowmaker)+incap+the fact that stamina is king now that is causing you all of this frustration.

Please keep all nerfs away from my magblades kthx.

do not worry , Zenimax LOVE the magblades , it's why in 3 years they never nerf it . same for the DK who still strong . BUT for Templar or sorc , they love nerfs these class .

Perwulf

susmitds wrote: »

ravenarc wrote: »

wookikiller95 wrote: »

What are u playing?

Templar? 1 button spam beam
Sorc? Shield Stacking like a pro
Dk? Nvm... There is no OP skill for DK

Stamina templar with no slot available for stealth detectors and running at 250-300 ping which is impossible to counter burst nb's. Hey DK's got dragon leap i find it very useful instead of DB, it literally can wipe zerg better than db.

Stoopid_Nwah wrote: »

Sounds like you're having more problems with stamblades tbh. In that case, it's more likely shuffle+velidreth/vipers/eternal hunt(or widowmaker)+incap+the fact that stamina is king now that is causing you all of this frustration.

Please keep all nerfs away from my magblades kthx.

Would not call it a problem but more of annoyance specially fighting more than 1 nb and with fear draining your resources due to the stupid slow break free animation while getting burst down, it's when the problem starts, block mitigation won't work, dodge works but with fatigue you won't survive that long.

If you are having trouble with stamblades as a stamplar, you are doing things wrong. While, stamblades have the advantage from stealth, in the open world, stamplars destroy stamblades. In fact the only way for a stamblade to kill a equally skilled stamplar is by stealth burst.

The problem is the knockdown and damage isn't enough to burst a good nb down, they just break cc re-cloak to regen resources then you have to wait a few seconds for another window which can be cc break again. Other classes i have no problem dealing with. One time i tried using expert hunter and ended up using it a lot while the NB just literally runs away until i'm dry using critical charge+Expert Hunter.

Hope you understand this..

Standard fight rotation goes:

Enemy Stealths/Gank>> Get Ambushed>> Surprise attacked>> Surprise Attack>> Gets Stunned>> While Break CC>> Light Attack>> Incapacitating Strike>> Light Attack>> Now at 10-30% Health(sometimes not surviving)>> Dawn Breaker if available>> Rally + Weapon Swap>> Repentance>> Vigor + Dodge Roll>> Piercing Javelin + Weapon Swap>> Rally>> Now back at 70%ish health>> Block>> Enemy Cloaks>> Wait for enemy to uncloak>> Ambush>> Surprise Attack>> Surprise Attack>> Now at 5-15% Health>> Finds a CC Window>> Dawn Breaker if Available if not attempt to Dizzying Swing, if fail >> Weapon Swaps>> Javelin + Weapon Swap>> Light Attack>> Incapacitating Strike>> Biting Jabs>> Reverse Slash>> Enemy CC break>> Fear>> Ambush>> Surpise attack>> Surpise attack>> Break CC>> Rally + Dodge Roll>> Weapon Swap>> Vigor + Repentance>> Piercing Javelin + Weapon Swap>> Biting Jab>> Dodge Rolls>> Crit Charge>> Biting Jabs>> Dodge Roll>> Cloaks>> Ambush>> Surpise attack>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

This goes on until my health/stamina can't regen that much anymore. Wins sometime but more loses because of another NB jumping in while at 50% below health and i always ended up fighting 2+v1 when fighting NB's, very very very few encounters against a solo NB.

Destyran

wookikiller95 wrote: »

What are u playing?

Templar? 1 button spam beam
Sorc? Shield Stacking like a pro
Dk? Nvm... There is no OP skill for DK

Tanky dk light attack heroic slash bash packs kids up

Vanzen

Cc break / Heal (gdb or Hward) / Meteor / Fosilize / Talon / Flamme Lash

QuebraRegra

ravenarc wrote: »

There are several ways to counter them yes but you have to sacrifice one of your abilities for magelight, expert hunter & etc. which is in fact very low duration with high cost, even so the animation cast of those skills (even with animation canceling) will leave you open and you'll just drop dead the second you cast it. Literally the most frustrating class to face atm specially in zerg and the fact that every one runs night blades since august well I guess it's fotm right now?. Anyways they just spam ambush>suprise attack doing tons of damage while having tons of mobility and survivability at disposal and not to mention when odds are not in their favor they just cloak dodgeroll forever or simply use fear then spam 2 buttons again.

wait.. you forgot FEAR.

Are NBs to blame? Think about the game as a whole. Does anyone really want "balance"?

ku5h

ravenarc wrote: »

There are several ways to counter them yes but you have to sacrifice one of your abilities for magelight, expert hunter & etc. which is in fact very low duration with high cost, even so the animation cast of those skills (even with animation canceling) will leave you open and you'll just drop dead the second you cast it. Literally the most frustrating class to face atm specially in zerg and the fact that every one runs night blades since august well I guess it's fotm right now?. Anyways they just spam ambush>suprise attack doing tons of damage while having tons of mobility and survivability at disposal and not to mention when odds are not in their favor they just cloak dodgeroll forever or simply use fear then spam 2 buttons again.

First off, use detect pots so you dont have to waste a skill, I have detect pots on every single char i use in Cyro. Second, most froustrating class in zerg is undoubtedly magplar with his 40m beam of death. Lastly, ambush+SA is not that good dps at all compared to some other combos(thing is NBs tend to go full gank build, so thats the reason you see big numbers, but down side is that you lack everything else if you go that rout), Nb has same mobility as most classes, nothing more. Tons of survivability? Not really. Cloak even when working properly is worst def mechanic of all classes simply because its negated completely by drinking a pot.
So all in all i really cant belive ppl still think NBs are OP, when imo they are in a 3rd place out of 4, behind Templar(both mag and stam), stam DK, stamSorc.

m2super_ESO

So if I read this correctly... I have crappy internet so nerf NB?

Robbmrp

wookikiller95 wrote: »

What are u playing?

Templar? 1 button spam beam
Sorc? Shield Stacking like a pro
Dk? Nvm... There is no OP skill for DK

@wookikiller95 you forgot about the Stamina Spec'd, That 2 button combo Crit Rush+Dizzy+Dizzy+Dizzy+Dizzy.... You'd think with 4 Dizzy swings in the row it would make the caster dizzy and off balance.....

Rage_Killin

Nightblades are fine. (I play everything but nightblade) they are a bursty class and that's how it was intended to be played. Stealth rouge assassin. It's fun and it's not over powered. (Incap might be though). There are things that pair well with nightblades but there are also things that pair well with other classes ( Fasala malubeth Templar ) for example. Leave the nightblades alone!

Lexxypwns

ravenarc wrote: »

wookikiller95 wrote: »

What are u playing?

Templar? 1 button spam beam
Sorc? Shield Stacking like a pro
Dk? Nvm... There is no OP skill for DK

Stamina templar with no slot available for stealth detectors and running at 250-300 ping which is impossible to counter burst nb's. Hey DK's got dragon leap i find it very useful instead of DB, it literally can wipe zerg better than db.

Stoopid_Nwah wrote: »

Sounds like you're having more problems with stamblades tbh. In that case, it's more likely shuffle+velidreth/vipers/eternal hunt(or widowmaker)+incap+the fact that stamina is king now that is causing you all of this frustration.

Please keep all nerfs away from my magblades kthx.

Would not call it a problem but more of annoyance specially fighting more than 1 nb and with fear draining your resources due to the stupid slow break free animation while getting burst down, it's when the problem starts, block mitigation won't work, dodge works but with fatigue you won't survive that long.

purify animation canceled with dodge roll, vigor, rally, los and prepare your burst. On my stamplar I eat NBs, even without magelight

Hurika

Sounds like you want to beat a class without having to take any steps needed to beat them. I won't retype the very long list of things lots have already typed on how to survive the initial hit. If you choose not to do them and want to win without taking any necessary steps to win, that's your fault, not the class.

When I run my DK I take steps to avoid insta-dying and being able to fight back.... have enough hits, detect pots, magelight, etc.

Most good NB will not open with Ambush which makes me immediately question the post.

Stoopid_Nwah

ravenarc wrote: »

Would not call it a problem but more of annoyance specially fighting more than 1 nb and with fear draining your resources due to the stupid slow break free animation while getting burst down, it's when the problem starts, block mitigation won't work, dodge works but with fatigue you won't survive that long.

I'm annoyed by dk wings, but I certainly am not calling for nerfs. What would be nice is if fear and vampire's drain actually wouldn't be buggy, but again, this is a mechanic being buggy, not a "nb's are so OP nerfnerfnerf" sort of issue.

Stam hits hard now, and in that regard yes, I agree it should be looked at in terms of balancing, but in the meantime you mentioned you play a stamplar? You have great odds against most stam nbs; keep your shuffle up, jabs them if they try to cloak, keep purify up (your heals are far better than theirs), CC as often as possible.

Apherius wrote: »

do not worry , Zenimax LOVE the magblades , it's why in 3 years they never nerf it . same for the DK who still strong . BUT for Templar or sorc , they love nerfs these class .

Lol what? Please tell me you're being sarcastic here.

Didaco

OP do you know that Templar's Ritual of Retribution cost less than NB's cloak?
And that the usual rotation of a stamblade makes use of 2 magicka skills (fear and cloak) that can literally drain thire entire magicka pool in a matter of seconds?

Just slot that skill and use it every time a NB cloaks and you'll be fine.

OTOH, Incap Strike really needs to be toned down, it's almost impossible to hang around with a light armor and survive a gank.

Paneross

This is a bigger problem than RD ever could be.

Paneross

Rage_Killin wrote: »

Nightblades are fine. (I play everything but nightblade) they are a bursty class and that's how it was intended to be played. Stealth rouge assassin. It's fun and it's not over powered. (Incap might be though). There are things that pair well with nightblades but there are also things that pair well with other classes ( Fasala malubeth Templar ) for example. Leave the nightblades alone!

NBs are broken leave Templars alone.

Pinja

ku5h wrote: »

ravenarc wrote: »

There are several ways to counter them yes but you have to sacrifice one of your abilities for magelight, expert hunter & etc. which is in fact very low duration with high cost, even so the animation cast of those skills (even with animation canceling) will leave you open and you'll just drop dead the second you cast it. Literally the most frustrating class to face atm specially in zerg and the fact that every one runs night blades since august well I guess it's fotm right now?. Anyways they just spam ambush>suprise attack doing tons of damage while having tons of mobility and survivability at disposal and not to mention when odds are not in their favor they just cloak dodgeroll forever or simply use fear then spam 2 buttons again.

First off, use detect pots so you dont have to waste a skill, I have detect pots on every single char i use in Cyro. Second, most froustrating class in zerg is undoubtedly magplar with his 40m beam of death. Lastly, ambush+SA is not that good dps at all compared to some other combos(thing is NBs tend to go full gank build, so thats the reason you see big numbers, but down side is that you lack everything else if you go that rout), Nb has same mobility as most classes, nothing more. Tons of survivability? Not really. Cloak even when working properly is worst def mechanic of all classes simply because its negated completely by drinking a pot.
So all in all i really cant belive ppl still think NBs are OP, when imo they are in a 3rd place out of 4, behind Templar(both mag and stam), stam DK, stamSorc.

^Naw^

Secondly I have covered this topic in great detail in the past & reassured with patch changes that the developers want Nightblades to be able to get away from almost anything. Lore may describe the depiction as I've also learned with those who complain about Radiant Destruction not realizing it kills them as much as it protects them from receiving the hard nerfs the last of the mag sorc's & DK's have been wanting to see since their fall into the eather. Radiant light pierces the night, while they pierce everything else, is along the lines & gist I got in following the game. As a matter of fact you probably would've been the next class to been hit had sorcs not taken such a strong fall & had radiant destruction not existed in the game. Is Radiant destruction the best thing killing you guys, or is it the only thing killing you guys when your clocking, roll dodging, doing what your supposed to do to survive, remembering also even then your not supposed to be immortal. Killing aspects of the game in the name of fairness probably doesn't make good game play, & those that were mangled are now just now being brought back in PVP stam form which seems to be the direction of the game.

As far as my patch observations my 'campaign' for this same topic started out just after Imp droped. Magic Vampiric NB Bombers were the Hellspawn of Molag Sypher & were easily craftable Emperors for anyone who wanted to kill 30 people. This was the start to the plague of stam Nightblades that now run Cyrodiil today. In it I named all the moves that you've may have mentioned & even more. In a later patch I saw changes In one light the soft counter's were buffed, mage light stuck the reveal for a sec & become less of a time & resource plagued toggle. Unfortunately though the hard counter (for mag sorcs) saw a nerf, Support flare reveal time droped from 8-3 sec's making it less popular then it already was for reasons I had then fore mentioned. However the worst of the patch were the lies, name say the passive guaranteed evasion that was supposedly going to get removed from dark cloke their invisibility move. The consept was simple roll dodge then go stealth, but nope. So then to fix 1V30 issue they add AoE caps (fair zergs like to live when they zerg), & nerfed magical detonation for all of us... Which followed by the dawnbraker release from magic about put the last nail in the coffin for PVP magic sorcs.
In hearing your cries one can assume you are magic sorc. Though now welcome my friend that through our blood stam sorcs have just now been recently been made into something presentable. Hurricane, the only effective AoE in singular battle it counter's Nightblades abusive clocke making it the second subject of Radiant destruction whiners & our classes best option in forward facing combat with these cowards. Inevitable Det is now all but forgotten, reduced single target damage removed magic sorcs from 1v1's. Why they didn't split the damage of the morph guess to stop magic nightblades from holding on but it eliminated us. Zerg purges mistime detonation, Physical barrier LOS cut off the cast, Range discrepancy cut off the cast or misleads you to cast on the lone diving tank nearly off screen which rendered it useless. Bringing in the meta switch to stam for these would be bomb abusers, witch offerd grater evasion that has no universal hard counter if you know the word.
Skipping the prior death of Magic Dk's.
The main problem I've seen of late in, regards to the threat of stam night blades, is the breather that they can use to revive everything including ultimate after a failed first attempt. Incap strike is an insanely powerful move & I've heard 'disillusioned' nightblades complain that is blockable while they were invisible waiting out their ultimate again restored off the free vigor heal tic's they were getting to recover from their beating in their failed attempt. Understand my fellow sorcerers this move is so cheap in both senses that it cost less then it does for you to gain back activation for you over charge even with our "ultimate reduction passive" 64-50 on the cost. Now to the rest of their pray even to RD Templars who just outplayed this opponent to have him get away. As they try to recover so might you, without purge your 30% slower on healing & meanwhile their HoT's were still active before you finished retaliating to make their failed attempt. They may've seemed like tanks but you out preformed them in every way to now have to do it a gain with 30% of your health missing. Even then maybe now that your ready you'll kill the coward or have evasion make a miss & have him do it again with 60%.
But that is how the class plays, like vermin & wouldn't want to kill off a full population of that otherwise the eagles would starve. So fly little birds feast well with Arkay, so now fly little birdys & send my Storks(stamina sorc orcs) away.

Drdeath20

wookikiller95 wrote: »

What are u playing?

Templar? 1 button spam beam
Sorc? Shield Stacking like a pro
Dk? Nvm... There is no OP skill for DK

This is completely false. Since when has anyone ever died to only a templar spamming radiant?

Majority of the time people die from radiant is because they got jumped by other players and radiant executed them.

Nightblades melt people at full health of almost 30k in less than 5 seconds even when they are wearing all heavy armor and have almost 500 CP's. The kill screen. Ambush 7k, suprise attack 4k suprise attack 6k, light attack 2k, suprise attack 4k, suprise attack 6k.

Paneross

wookikiller95 wrote: »

What are u playing?

Templar? 1 button spam beam
Sorc? Shield Stacking like a pro
Dk? Nvm... There is no OP skill for DK

This has NEVER EVER EVER EVER happend in the history of PvP against someone who has 100% health and is actually playing. The ONLY way RD kills you at 100% is if you're AFK or you have 0 cp and they have 531.

Twohothardware

Have you ever played as a Nightblade in PvP? It's not nearly as OP as you think it is which is why Magplars and Stam Sorc and Stam Dragonknights are the builds most of the best PvP streamers are running. Stamblades especially are glass cannon builds. They deal the most damage in quick bursts but can't take much damage and are meant to be played more as a quick hit and run style play. Meanwhile classes like your Stamplar have high survivability which allows them to fight in the open and take a lot more damage. If they nerf what you're calling for then Nightblades wouldn't be able to deal enough burst damage to kill the high survivability Dragonknight and Templar builds before they heal and then bash or jesus beam them to death.

WreckfulAbandon

For the "sacrifice" in dmg that heavy armor users make to be more survivable, I would say that medium armor Stamblades come out worse on balance than these Major Mending + Major Vitality Tanky DD's.

HA needs to lose its dmg buff, Major Vitality needs to be scrapped.

Perwulf

Twohothardware wrote: »

Have you ever played as a Nightblade in PvP? It's not nearly as OP as you think it is which is why Magplars and Stam Sorc and Stam Dragonknights are the builds most of the best PvP streamers are running. Stamblades especially are glass cannon builds. They deal the most damage in quick bursts but can't take much damage and are meant to be played more as a quick hit and run style play. Meanwhile classes like your Stamplar have high survivability which allows them to fight in the open and take a lot more damage. If they nerf what you're calling for then Nightblades wouldn't be able to deal enough burst damage to kill the high survivability Dragonknight and Templar builds before they heal and then bash or jesus beam them to death.

I was planning to play NB atm but i don't really like stealthy classes however i'm tempted also i want to see how they fare in my own hands, i'm also amazed how dominant NB right now in PvP and 90% of the time all players i'm facing was NB even so is my allies.

Barlthump

I absolutely knew this thread would come when they made IC drop double tel var. It's the IC patch all over again. I got killed by a NB therefore NB OP. Just wait for the double tel var to be gone and this thread will die along with it going back to ZOS OMG:
1) J-BEAM OP
2) Malubeth OP

lucky_Sage

Stoopid_Nwah wrote: »

ravenarc wrote: »

Would not call it a problem but more of annoyance specially fighting more than 1 nb and with fear draining your resources due to the stupid slow break free animation while getting burst down, it's when the problem starts, block mitigation won't work, dodge works but with fatigue you won't survive that long.

I'm annoyed by dk wings, but I certainly am not calling for nerfs. What would be nice is if fear and vampire's drain actually wouldn't be buggy, but again, this is a mechanic being buggy, not a "nb's are so OP nerfnerfnerf" sort of issue.

Stam hits hard now, and in that regard yes, I agree it should be looked at in terms of balancing, but in the meantime you mentioned you play a stamplar? You have great odds against most stam nbs; keep your shuffle up, jabs them if they try to cloak, keep purify up (your heals are far better than theirs), CC as often as possible.

Apherius wrote: »

do not worry , Zenimax LOVE the magblades , it's why in 3 years they never nerf it . same for the DK who still strong . BUT for Templar or sorc , they love nerfs these class .

Lol what? Please tell me you're being sarcastic here.

why do people have problem with wings they are easy to counter and I play a sorc and a dk when I'm on my dk I just don't I just don't frag or overload all stupid

ZOS_JohanaB

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the_man_of_steal

First of all, I have a Khajit Stamblade and a Woodelf Stamblade... neither of them use Ambush. My Gap Closer is Silver Leash which is really really REALLY unreliable. After playing Stamblade for 3 months now... I completely understand why everyone uses Ambush and don't blame a single NB for not using it. Zos @ZOS_JessicaFolsom please make the Silver Leash pull reliable and thus help mitigate OP's issues... I cannot tell you how many times I have Leashed an enemy with no one around them once with no issues, but my second Leash literally does nothing... No damage, No Pull.

Additionally, I can tell OP that some stamblade spamming really isn't going to burst you unless you are neglecting your shields, buffs, and/or heals.

Stoopid_Nwah

lucky_Sage wrote: »

why do people have problem with wings they are easy to counter and I play a sorc and a dk when I'm on my dk I just don't I just don't frag or overload all stupid

Just on one of my magblades that uses inferno destro weaving with swallow soul, merciless, and cripple. So a lot of projectiles. Not a problem, just the biggest annoyance I have with that character as if for some reason they get wings back up in my burst window I have to start all over again.

The point was "just because something is irritating or has a good counter to your build, doesn't mean nerfs are in order". And with mdks it's definitely buffs that are in order lol.