I think that's the point. Many GMs are temporarily sacrificing for their communities to maintain a kiosk right now, but they refuse to do so indefinitely. It's *not* worth sacrificing their lives over. Running a big guild is more than enough sacrifice and hard work as it is already.phaseadept wrote: »There's still an unanswered question: why are people sacrificing their lives for a guild trader?
Most non-casual guilds have requirements, like TS or needing to be on for certain events. For me personally, my time isn't flexible enough for event-driven requirements, and so I don't join such guilds.phaseadept wrote: »Large trading guilds have requirements, like minimum sales, mandatory donations, etc.
So it's not fun to join them.
The point is, it's not an odd week here or there. If someone doesn't stay up to bid until right before maintenance hits, due to bid spying, they *will* be outbid. Every. Time.phaseadept wrote: »There's no good reason someone should fear losing their guild because they don't have a trader for a week or two or three.
As has been mentioned before, in-guild sales account for a small fraction of total sales.phaseadept wrote: »People can still sell within the guild, use public chat, etc.
Just so.nooblybear wrote: »These issues affect everyone in the game, and they're not going away any time soon. Please fix them.
silvereyes wrote: »As has been mentioned before, in-guild sales account for a small fraction of total sales.phaseadept wrote: »People can still sell within the guild, use public chat, etc.
And ... public chat? Do you really want to unleash hundreds of OCD traders with surplus inventory on zone chat? If you think the WTS spam is bad now ... just wait.Just so.nooblybear wrote: »These issues affect everyone in the game, and they're not going away any time soon. Please fix them.
phaseadept wrote: »There's still an unanswered question: why are people sacrificing their lives for a guild trader?
phaseadept wrote: »There's still an unanswered question: why are people sacrificing their lives for a guild trader?
And many are starting to choose not to, which is the whole point of this thread.
phaseadept wrote: »phaseadept wrote: »There's still an unanswered question: why are people sacrificing their lives for a guild trader?
And many are starting to choose not to, which is the whole point of this thread.
That should have never been a choice in the first place. It would be nice if people realized it's just a game, the big guild traders have been monopolizing orices and the economy for awhile, and now they are complaining because a guild store may be lost when it costs millions to bid in the first place.
First world problems is what it looks like.
The big guilds should be advocating for more spots to have traders, better access for more people. Then complaints like this wouldn't ring so hollow.
Otherwise, the majority of people could really care less about the "problems" the 1% of elder scrolls is going through.
We need a Bernie Sanders to fight for fair guild stores. . . *wink*
phaseadept wrote: »phaseadept wrote: »There's still an unanswered question: why are people sacrificing their lives for a guild trader?
And many are starting to choose not to, which is the whole point of this thread.
The big guilds should be advocating for more spots to have traders, better access for more people. Then complaints like this wouldn't ring so hollow.
sylviermoone wrote: »Ok, this is freaking ridiculous.
The ENTIRE economy of ESO revolves around one mechanic: the Kiosk flipping time. It used to be that the bids closed at 5 minutes to 8 Eastern, flip happened at 8 Eastern, and then servers went down for maintenance. During the winter, there was an extra hour to run around looking for a stall if you happened to lose. While it isn't ideal to have maintenance happen directly AFTER the kiosk flips, it is SO MUCH BETTER than having your maintenance time DIRECTLY in conflict with this one mechanic.
Please ZOS: Get your *** together. This new maintenance time, and its direct conflict with the Kiosk mechanic on the PC/NA server is INSANE. Whoever thought this was a good idea should be taken out back and flogged.
For the love of The Eight: PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE move the maintenance time back to 8 AM Eastern on Monday. Or 8:15 Eastern. Or any day but Monday. OR ANYTHING OTHER THAN THIS CRAP IT CURRENTLY IS.
phaseadept wrote: »There's still an unanswered question: why are people sacrificing their lives for a guild trader?
And many are starting to choose not to, which is the whole point of this thread.
covenant11b14_ESO wrote: »There was a short period of time when maintenance was happening on Tuesday. This was the absolute best. This allowed a reasonable amount of time for bidders to make bids and follow up after. As it stands you make a bid, cross your fingers. For the third time in six weeks my guild does not have a trader because of the conflict between maintenance and trader budding.
By definition, the economy is created by the transactions performed by humans.
By procedure, the transactions that humans perform are only possible AFTER they have engaged in playing (at least one part of) the game. One must fish, or farm, or grind, or in some other manner must PLAY the game before a single transaction may be performed.
The economy is built on the foundation of playing the game, and therefore the game must take priority over any trade issues.
People seem to forget that the economy is the aggregate of human action, and that human action will always continue to exist even if they delete the program code for guilds and guild traders completely.
Hard truth - the economy will not disappear if the maintenance times mean that no trade guild gets a cart anywhere on the map. ESO is a game of killing monsters and enemy characters, not the 1995 game Capitalism. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capitalism_(video_game)
Sigh. Where to begin?phaseadept wrote: »the big guild traders have been monopolizing [p]rices and the economy for awhile
That's the goal!phaseadept wrote: »Finally some acknowledgement
That's what's needed is a combined effort to make the economy useful for everyone.
I don't play on console, so I can't speak for those guilds. However, I find it highly unlikely that 500 individual members of a trade guild would agree to fix prices. Like I said, traders don't control supply. Overpriced goods don't sell, and there are few things that a top trader dislikes more than stuff sitting on the shelves, taking up their limited slot space.phaseadept wrote: »As far as the collusion, nearly every trader on console in the high traffic areas is selling things for the exact same prices. No competition. That's a monopolized market.
silvereyes wrote: »That's the goal!phaseadept wrote: »Finally some acknowledgement
That's what's needed is a combined effort to make the economy useful for everyone.I don't play on console, so I can't speak for those guilds. However, I find it highly unlikely that 500 individual members of a trade guild would agree to fix prices. Like I said, traders don't control supply. Overpriced goods don't sell, and there are few things that a top trader dislikes more than stuff sitting on the shelves, taking up their limited slot space.phaseadept wrote: »As far as the collusion, nearly every trader on console in the high traffic areas is selling things for the exact same prices. No competition. That's a monopolized market.
Also, have you compared prices to those on PC? I can guarantee that my 4 trade guilds don't price fix (and provide sales price charts from MM to prove it if you like). If the prices are in the same ballpark, I don't think you have anything to be worried about.
This is a total guess, but I suspect what might be happening is more of a herd mentality on pricing. There are no addons like Master Merchant on console to give detailed market analytics, so everyone is just looking at the guy next to them to see what they listed at. It would take an extraordinary amount of patience and ledger work to manually tabulate other people's sales from the guild history, and I doubt many players bother.
silvereyes wrote: »@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_JessicaFolsom @ZOS_KaiSchober @ZOS_RichLambert:
To be clear, this is all we are asking for right now:
"I have forwarded your request on to the management team, and will keep you informed of any progress."
We really appreciate you guys and gals. We love ESO and all the hard work ZOS does. We would just really appreciate at least the respect of acknowledging our request to deconflict kiosk flipping and maintenance times.
[edited for tone]
The team has been forwarding this feedback for a couple of months now and there has not been any followup, care, or response other than "it's been forwarded." In the mean time, the game is bleeding top tier GMs and stressing out the others that are remaining. I know several that have left; one of which is a close friend. I know others have cancelled their subs and I know that the part of me that loved this game has taken a huge hit. I only keep logging in presently because I care greatly for the people in my guild, but I've basically stopped playing the game otherwise.
Nothing is changing, nothing is indicating that anything is changing; it feels like there's a group of people that are thumbing their noses at our suffering.
I have always been very positive and supportive of ZOS in the past, but I cannot feel that way again until there is REAL change here on the issues we've stated as our BIGGEST PAIN POINTS:
(1) Bid Spying - we've BEGGED for a real fix for this for about a year and a half
(2) Maintenance Overlap w/Trader Turnover - I don't know how many other ways we can state how this horribly compounds the stress
The silent ignore treatment is BS; people's real lives are being impacted. We believed in a system that was put in place and are trying to live within the system while doing right by the communities we invested in. This is a FANTASTIC way to turn your biggest supporters toxic if that's what you're seeking.
If you can't turn this around easily (the presented solutions feel easy!), then please at least have the courtesy to explain 'why' and perhaps 'how long' it would take. It honestly feels like there's an active choice being made by one or more people to do nothing and just let this fester.
@ZOS_RichLambert
I'm a little unclear about bid spying but ... it seems like that might be the cheaper / easier thing to fix than a major management/scheduling change on ZOS' part. Would locking down who has the ability to see current guild bank balance to only those with gold withdraw privileges be enough to solve that problem?our BIGGEST PAIN POINTS:
(1) Bid Spying - we've BEGGED for a real fix for this for about a year and a half
(2) Maintenance Overlap w/Trader Turnover - I don't know how many other ways we can state how this horribly compounds the stress
This post is very characteristic of an American.... I could say "typical" of one at that. You're not taking into consideration that other people come from other time zones as if America is the only country in the world.
Playing on an EU server you have no idea how frustrating it is having our maintenance in the middle of the day just because they run at the same time as NA.
Guild traders flip just after mid day, sometimes people are working around this time and often enough I don't have one guild moderator online to run around trying to find another trader if we fail with our bid. We are not a big guild and don't bid for the more desirable traders, but we profit from our trader and it's something for our more pve related members to do... and often enough they come online after work to find out we have no trader.
Think about using logic before you post. Thank yourself lucky you guys have it as easy as you do.
This post is very characteristic of an American.... I could say "typical" of one at that. You're not taking into consideration that other people come from other time zones as if America is the only country in the world.
Playing on an EU server you have no idea how frustrating it is having our maintenance in the middle of the day just because they run at the same time as NA.
Guild traders flip just after mid day, sometimes people are working around this time and often enough I don't have one guild moderator online to run around trying to find another trader if we fail with our bid. We are not a big guild and don't bid for the more desirable traders, but we profit from our trader and it's something for our more pve related members to do... and often enough they come online after work to find out we have no trader.
Think about using logic before you post. Thank yourself lucky you guys have it as easy as you do.
sylviermoone wrote: »For the love of The Eight: PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE move the maintenance time back to 8 AM Eastern on Monday. Or 8:15 Eastern. Or any day but Monday. OR ANYTHING OTHER THAN THIS CRAP IT CURRENTLY IS.
Why you gotta hate on an entire country, my friend? It's not nice, even if the OP were inconsiderate.You're not taking into consideration that other people come from other time zones as if America is the only country in the world.
Molag_Crow wrote: »I've said it before and I'll say it again; Auction house.
clayandaudrey_ESO wrote: »Molag_Crow wrote: »I've said it before and I'll say it again; Auction house.
But I am sure that ZOS would make it so you could only list things for 7 days and the only time you access the AH to add things would be during the same hours as maintenance.