Poorly thought out maintenance times and their conflict with economy mechanics

Anslay

hiyde wrote: »

I'd like to take this opportunity to lay out a few of the issues we have with Kiosk flip times. Despite our best efforts of asking about this and suggesting specific solutions for over a year, we've never had any sort of response.

Bid Spying
It remains a huge issue in the game and is extremely easy to do. It is possible to calculate EXACTLY what a guild has bid *before* the bids process. This forces guilds in a competitive location to be on just before the kiosks flip to "top off" their bid. Numerous suggestions have been put forth to eliminate this issue once and for all. Removing bids from the history (which used to be posted after the bids processed) has accomplished nothing other than reducing transparency to members while allowing bid spies to keep right on spying. This also creates paranoia and bad blood between guilds.

Flip Time
In the summer, Kiosks flip at 5AM PDT / 8AM EDT. It's even worse in the winter - an hour earlier!
Highly active trade guilds typically do their biggest events on Sunday night and then have just a few hours to grab some sleep and be present for the flip. Even if bid-spying was eliminated, Officers still have to be on to search for an open location if the bid is lost. Why does this have to take place before the sun comes up on a *Monday* morning?

Maintenance
And now, maintenance has added a special new layer of hell. That means placing final bids at 4A East / 1A West and then being at the mercy of whenever servers come back up to know the results and search for a location if the bid isn't won.

Why do kiosk flip times have to be early Monday morning? How about something closer to peak play time so people don't have to interrupt their sleep 1-2 times every Monday just to secure a kiosk?

I realize this affects a small slice of the community and there are far more pressing issues that affect bigger portions of the population. But c'mon. These have been our main "pain points" with Trading Guilds for a very long time and despite extensive and thoughtful feedback, we can't even get an answer, let alone any sort of improvement to the situation.

Suggestions:
- Eliminate bid spying once and for all.
- Move kiosk flip time to something at or near "prime time" on Saturday or Sunday nights, when we're all online holding our end of week guild events.
- If the above isn't possible, can we please be told why? And if that's the case, then yes, the last resort would be a request to move maintenance so it doesn't directly conflict with this critical game mechanic for trading guilds, but it seems there are much greater benefits to moving Kiosk flip times instead, to a time that would never interfere with regular maintenance and would allow people to get a good night's sleep. Mondays are hard enough as it is!


@ZOS_GinaBruno

This is perfectly stated. /signed

SleepyTroll

Your wrong though, the guild trader system is perfect. /s

Lady_Ems

Morning @Anslay .... looks like all of us GM's and officers are hanging out here complaining this morning

Ixtyr

I devoted an entire podcast episode to this topic last week instead of talking about the new DLC content like I should have. Why? Because this is a nightmare and by far the single most idiotic decision ZOS has made in months.

The fact of the matter is that this requires NO code. No expertise. No effort. It's a simple administrative decision, which ZOS has demonstrated before dozens of times by skipping maintenances and moving to different days of the week on a whim.

You have ONE mechanic in the entire game that requires players to be able to be onli e at the same fixed time every week, week in and week out, to prevent themselves from being completely screwed over for 7 days. And that's the Trader flip. The decision, then, to have the only time you schedule for planned server downtime OVERLAP with that is utter BS and demonstrates a lack of understanding your own game's mechanics in a way that's downright insulting to the players who devote dozens of hours every week ensuring that your economic system works.

Making these two timeframes overlap has caused weekly bid prices in major cities to more than DOUBLE since mid-May. That hurts the guilds, their players, especially their leaders, and it makes it exponentially harder for new guilds to spring up and grow while increasing the hostilities between established guilds.

@ZOS_RichLambert @ZOS_MattFiror Please, for the love of all that is good about this game, FIX THIS!

labtecw

Vigarr wrote: »

Everyone is down at the same time yes? So if anything, this maintenance just gives you more real life time before you have to go bid in game.

no there is no more time due to the bid closes at 800 and if mantiance is going on the bids are over and you have to wait to see if you got the bid if not you have to scamper to try to find one with everyone else that got out bid

Vindemiatrix

I've seen several posts apologetic because this issue "only affects a small number of players," but GM's deserve more credit than that. When we lose our trader and can't get a backup it affects the entire guild, and I'm pretty sure most of our player population is in at least one goodly-sized trade guild if not more than one.

Pomaikai

Every GM in this game represents 500 people. It doesn't affect only a few people in this game, it affects most of them.

Nifty2g

I think trade guilds might be more elitist than me, god damn

Preyfar

Nifty2g wrote: »

I think trade guilds might be more elitist than me, god damn

Trade guilds reflect the entire economy. Many of them are elitist to some degree because they have to be. Why? The system is designed that way if you want a trade guild to be good, competitive and have a place where people actually traffic.

I'm not against trade guilds, but their current implementation needs work. GMs shouldn't have to expect to take the day off from work or risk losing their entire trade guild because of the timing of the flips. It needs to be moved to non maintenance days (Trade Guild Tuesdays!).

Just move it up one day. That's it.

clayandaudrey_ESO

Nifty2g wrote: »

I think trade guilds might be more elitist than me, god damn

PvPers and PVEers only thought they were hardcore. Trade guilds are where the true hardcore reside.

Bids should be a sealed one time thing. Place your bid and wait. The whole changing your bid thing is ridiculous.

svartorn

Never really thought about this problem since I don't manage a trading guild but I can totally see how this would be a pain.

Parrotbrain

I thought they changed the maintenance times so that the EU and NA clients can be run from the same installation

Carokube

Stuff like this is why I

1) Always remember to thank and appreciate my trade guild GMs.

2) Donate to trade guild raffles, auctions, events, etc with whatever cash I can spare.

3) Help promote civil discourse among my trade guilds and never EVER whine or blame if we lose a trader.

Have you hugged your trade guild GM today?

Please ZoS, we really just want an answer (any response will do, just want to be in the loop!) about this issue so that we (or at least I) can stop worrying about the health, well-being, and sanity of our GMs.

Preyfar

clayandaudrey_ESO wrote: »

PvPers and PVEers only thought they were hardcore. Trade guilds are where the true hardcore reside.

This is true. Those vendors don't tend to get filled with gold Viscous Death and Viper jewelry by random players.

redspecter23

The mechanic could change. Instead of unbid kiosks going for 100g to the first person to find them, why not start a new 24 hour bidding clock on unbid kiosks? Solves the maintenance issue while keeping away the guilds with no items for sale that will just pick it up for 100g for giggles and allow those that lose a kiosk a legit chance at another one for the week while only losing 1 day.

ZoS seems to think that these unbid kiosks help smaller guilds get a foot in the door. I disagree. It helps those with a fast connection that can download the patch get a kiosk easier. Even if it was helpful in some way, the stress it causes the trade guild GM's is far worse than any imaginary positive impact ZoS thinks this system has.

AzraelAcid

Nifty2g wrote: »

I think trade guilds might be more elitist than me, god damn

Let me tell you, it's really trade PVP.

While we've all had our differences in the past, I think this topic is universally agreed upon. In the end we all want what's best for our guilds, and this trader flip being immediately before maintenance is CRUSHING us all.

This is a second job. Many of us put 40-50+ hours a week into our guilds. So much that we don't get to enjoy the actual content. It's not fun anymore.

It is crucial to the economy that we have our stalls.

@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_JessicaFolsom @ZOS_RichLambert. If this keeps up, the decisions made on this issue will cause the economy to crash and burn. When hardcore PVE/PVP players can't find a place to sell their goods....I would hate to see what the player base would look like statistically then.

Pomaikai

The fact that ZOS employees have been posting pretty heavily in other threads all morning, but not in this one does nothing but show that they don't care about this issue at all. Not one whit, and that's pretty damned pathetic.

Lady_Ems

Pomaikai wrote: »

The fact that ZOS employees have been posting pretty heavily in other threads all morning, but not in this one does nothing but show that they don't care about this issue at all. Not one whit, and that's pretty damned pathetic.

I made almost that exact same comment earlier in this thread.. nothing from ZOS at all on this thread

gabrion

I get the impression this thread is filled with some VERY experienced players (GMs or senior leaders in competitive guilds), so it might seem out of place for me to post here as someone who's only been playing for a week.

Still, I want to point out how obvious of a problem this is even to someone who has only been playing a week and whose highest level character is in the mid 20s.

I read a guide before I started that said joining guilds right away was wise, so I took up a few offers in chat early on and joined three guilds. At the time I had no clue how the guild trader system worked, but eventually had it explained to me when I asked how the "Auction House" worked in guild chat. Even at that time I didn't get an explanation of the weekly bidding process and how guilds got good locations to sell - that only came when one of my guild masters posted a message of the day about buying raffle tickets so that we could afford to win a good spot.

In any case, after having the basics explained, I had two incoherent mental responses following one after the other:

1) This is an idiotic system (why not just have an AH like other games?).
then
2) Wow this is actually pretty brilliant.

The first response was because I've played so many games with a standard AH that it seems really silly to limit transactions rather than letting any person sell to the entirety of the population. The second thought came after mulling it over for a bit. This concept really seems to promote guilds as something that can be competitive in a way that isn't so traditional. I was in a few really high level raiding guilds in WoW at different times and while there were certainly delineations between premier guilds and those below them, it was mostly based on raiding progression, how fast they could take down new content, ect. Having a paradigm that allows guilds to be competitive based on how good they are collectively as traders, including a mechanics that lets them continue that prestige by buying sought after real estate to sell from, is really cool.

The second genius thing about the guild trading system is the deflationary impact it must have on the game. This is only speculation, but I've played a lot of MMOs and for all of them that actually allow truly useful items to be purchased with the base currency, inflation is something they have to deal with. It's too early for me to know if this is actually true, but it seems like the bidding system is actually removing millions and millions of gold from the economy each week, which is actually healthy for the game (when games don't have a good way to eliminate currency, you can take a 6 month break, come back, and find everything costs 10x what it does when you left).

Anyway, back to the point...

For the above reasons, as well as the fact that the game seems to contain a lot of things that are actually worth trading, it seems really odd to short circuit the system and disrupt it by failing to deconflict maintenance times. If the trade system around which the economy is built is actually pretty novel compared to a lot of other games, and if it really has an impact on the players, why not let it work as intended?

The craziest part is that, as others have pointed out, this doesn't seem to require any extra work. I've seen thousands of requests/demands for fixes across dozens of games that come from players who have no way of knowing how much they are asking of the dev team. "JUST FIX THIS LADDER BUG, IT CAN'T BE THAT HARD..." etc, etc. I'm always sympathetic of people asking for such fixes, but I also realize it's usually impossible to know what it would take for devs to come up with a fix. I just assume they usually take a sort of triage approach to bug fixes and for bugs that are left in place, someone's done the math and said the resulting improvement to the game wouldn't be worth the man hours it takes to fix (especially given other things they could be addressing).

In this case though, there doesn't seem to be ANY such justification. The scheduled maintenance contains the same code and requires the same amount of work regardless of when it's released. This is literally just a matter of someone saying "lets do it X day instead of Y day."

Sorry for the long post, but I feel for you guys who are bidding for spots, even though I'm a little fish with maybe 20k gold to my name.

CombatPrayer

ZOS doesn't care. AT ALL. Correction, some of their employees probably care but the people who make these decisions could care less. They are here to take your money. If some of you do not like the system and you leave the game? Well, that's just a few customers.

Again, ZOS doesn't care. Look at the dlc prices for stuff that takes years to get. It's money. It's all about the money. I never got the impression that Bethesda was like this. But ZOS.... egads....

Again, I do not believe this is about most all of their employees but about the people who make these kinds of decisions and quite likely the people they have to report to less so than them. ZOS, the company, the people who make major decisions for the company clearly do not care. If they did you wouldn't have to wait 2 years for ability to change race and look while paying an unreasonable sum for it. You wouldn't have bots running rampant throughout the game's life cycle then have false positives where people who never touched a bot get banned then have to jump through hoops to get unbanned. These are the sort of things that happens when a company does not care. Stop asking them to change. They ain't gonna do it unless it's a fiscally sound investment (cost time effective fix bare minimum but financial gain probably true minimum).

ZOS does not see people. They see dollar signs. They are starting to make EA look like monks taking handounts.

hiyde

Pomaikai wrote: »

Every GM in this game represents 500 people. It doesn't affect only a few people in this game, it affects most of them.

My reference to it affecting a small amount of players was related to those who have lose sleep on Sunday nights/Monday mornings to deal with these issues.

Yes, the health of every trading guild affects up to 500 players and lots of people are affected if a kiosk is lost and a backup can't be obtained due to these issues. As a trade guild GM, I didn't mean to downplay that.

hiyde

gabrion wrote: »

If the trade system around which the economy is built is actually pretty novel compared to a lot of other games, and if it really has an impact on the players, why not let it work as intended?

Gabrion is brand new to the game..and stated this as eloquently as I've seen in over a year of dealing with this.

hiyde

Carokube wrote: »

Stuff like this is why I

1) Always remember to thank and appreciate my trade guild GMs.

2) Donate to trade guild raffles, auctions, events, etc with whatever cash I can spare.

3) Help promote civil discourse among my trade guilds and never EVER whine or blame if we lose a trader.

Have you hugged your trade guild GM today?

Please ZoS, we really just want an answer (any response will do, just want to be in the loop!) about this issue so that we (or at least I) can stop worrying about the health, well-being, and sanity of our GMs.

Thank you, Caro. Proud to have you in our guild!

CombatPrayer

Even having it be on monday morning is kind of like they assume you don't have a normal real life where you might, you know, work for a living. The flip time is right about when many people would be working or going to school. It should be on the weekends if you ask me. Something like a Sat or Sun morning or evening. Having it be right at the time where most people have to get back into the flow of their real life responsibilities is pretty whacked IMO. Like it never even crossed their minds that the guildmasters could even have other things to do beside bid on traders, unless of course they really didn't consider the possibility that the trade guilds would become the root of the economy. Actually, that probably is it.

Cryptical

gabrion wrote: »

I get the impression this thread is filled with some VERY experienced players (GMs or senior leaders in competitive guilds), so it might seem out of place for me to post here as someone who's only been playing for a week.

Still, I want to point out how obvious of a problem this is even to someone who has only been playing a week and whose highest level character is in the mid 20s.

I read a guide before I started that said joining guilds right away was wise, so I took up a few offers in chat early on and joined three guilds. At the time I had no clue how the guild trader system worked, but eventually had it explained to me when I asked how the "Auction House" worked in guild chat. Even at that time I didn't get an explanation of the weekly bidding process and how guilds got good locations to sell - that only came when one of my guild masters posted a message of the day about buying raffle tickets so that we could afford to win a good spot.

In any case, after having the basics explained, I had two incoherent mental responses following one after the other:

1) This is an idiotic system (why not just have an AH like other games?).
then
2) Wow this is actually pretty brilliant.

The first response was because I've played so many games with a standard AH that it seems really silly to limit transactions rather than letting any person sell to the entirety of the population. The second thought came after mulling it over for a bit. This concept really seems to promote guilds as something that can be competitive in a way that isn't so traditional. I was in a few really high level raiding guilds in WoW at different times and while there were certainly delineations between premier guilds and those below them, it was mostly based on raiding progression, how fast they could take down new content, ect. Having a paradigm that allows guilds to be competitive based on how good they are collectively as traders, including a mechanics that lets them continue that prestige by buying sought after real estate to sell from, is really cool.

The second genius thing about the guild trading system is the deflationary impact it must have on the game. This is only speculation, but I've played a lot of MMOs and for all of them that actually allow truly useful items to be purchased with the base currency, inflation is something they have to deal with. It's too early for me to know if this is actually true, but it seems like the bidding system is actually removing millions and millions of gold from the economy each week, which is actually healthy for the game (when games don't have a good way to eliminate currency, you can take a 6 month break, come back, and find everything costs 10x what it does when you left).

Anyway, back to the point...

For the above reasons, as well as the fact that the game seems to contain a lot of things that are actually worth trading, it seems really odd to short circuit the system and disrupt it by failing to deconflict maintenance times. If the trade system around which the economy is built is actually pretty novel compared to a lot of other games, and if it really has an impact on the players, why not let it work as intended?

The craziest part is that, as others have pointed out, this doesn't seem to require any extra work. I've seen thousands of requests/demands for fixes across dozens of games that come from players who have no way of knowing how much they are asking of the dev team. "JUST FIX THIS LADDER BUG, IT CAN'T BE THAT HARD..." etc, etc. I'm always sympathetic of people asking for such fixes, but I also realize it's usually impossible to know what it would take for devs to come up with a fix. I just assume they usually take a sort of triage approach to bug fixes and for bugs that are left in place, someone's done the math and said the resulting improvement to the game wouldn't be worth the man hours it takes to fix (especially given other things they could be addressing).

In this case though, there doesn't seem to be ANY such justification. The scheduled maintenance contains the same code and requires the same amount of work regardless of when it's released. This is literally just a matter of someone saying "lets do it X day instead of Y day."

Sorry for the long post, but I feel for you guys who are bidding for spots, even though I'm a little fish with maybe 20k gold to my name.

I can see your point on what you called the first brilliant thing about it. But the deflationary element isn't all that applicable. There are people sitting on tens of millions in gold, with nothing to bother to spend it on. Prices go up and down, mainly up recently on the C150/160 related items because of the change in level mechanics beyond level 50; and down on the C1 to C149 related items for the same reason.

The guild trader system remains one that isn't rooted in the economics of supply and demand, but one rooted in the economics of using a location to leverage enough profit to remain in that location, to leverage it into more profit, etc. A few days ago I checked each of the grahtwood traders for ancestor silk, and 200 units (1 stack) listed for 30,000 ranging down to about 15,000 gold - the guild trader carts right next to each other. A couple days prior to that, I simply farmed a stack of ancestor silk in a bit over an hour. It took that long because I was using my nearly-naked nearly-weaponless crafter character, I wasn't in a hurry and several times had to run run run very fast from the scorpions. My relatively terrible ability at 'professional farming' had results that sell for 15k? 30k?!?! Why would people pay that, when it takes just an hour or less to do it themselves? Because those guild traders run on *location*, not supply/demand.

Example of location based success - McDonald's.
Who here knows they can make a better burger than McDonald's? I figure everyone would raise their hand for that, McDonald's burgers are a bit thin and cooked assembly line style. Quite greasy. So why hasn't anyone come along and defeated McD? Because McD is not about the product, it is about being convenient, the location of the store is where people already travel, it's *easy* to get. So people overpay for a greasy product due to store location. Same economic mechanic is at work on the guild trader system. Trader carts away from foot traffic don't get enough customers to act as a corrective pressure on the main road trader cart locations, so we get wild price variances where the results of one hour of effort can go for 15k or double that.

On console:
A guild bids high and wins a good spot / the guild members price high to make enough profit to recover the expense of the spot / the people who need the product pay the high price because it's where they are / people need to grind more money to recover those high expenses and to donate to their guild so they can bid high for a good spot.
That's the circular flow of inflation at work here. Note the the seemingly deflationary aspect of taking money out through bidding actually just forces both customer and seller to grind for gold, to support the high costs of the trade guild.

I still think a public option needs to be introduced to act as a grounding / corrective force on prices. The bubble cannot inflate forever.

Epona222

So utterly sick of this. I love running a guild, I wouldn't do it otherwise. But sick of spending Mondays glued to my computer quite simply because I have no idea what time the servers will be back up to see whether we won our bid, and whether I need to join the scramble for an unhired.

At least when maintenance started shortly after switchover, I would get to see whether we won our bid - if we did, I could at least on those days go and do something else, but even that was not ideal, certainly not for smaller or newer guilds - but it's just so much worse now.

It's just exhausting and stressful.

esofan86

hiyde wrote: »

I'd like to take this opportunity to lay out a few of the issues we have with Kiosk flip times. Despite our best efforts of asking about this and suggesting specific solutions for over a year, we've never had any sort of response.

Bid Spying
It remains a huge issue in the game and is extremely easy to do. It is possible to calculate EXACTLY what a guild has bid *before* the bids process. This forces guilds in a competitive location to be on just before the kiosks flip to "top off" their bid. Numerous suggestions have been put forth to eliminate this issue once and for all. Removing bids from the history (which used to be posted after the bids processed) has accomplished nothing other than reducing transparency to members while allowing bid spies to keep right on spying. This also creates paranoia and bad blood between guilds.

Flip Time
In the summer, Kiosks flip at 5AM PDT / 8AM EDT. It's even worse in the winter - an hour earlier!
Highly active trade guilds typically do their biggest events on Sunday night and then have just a few hours to grab some sleep and be present for the flip. Even if bid-spying was eliminated, Officers still have to be on to search for an open location if the bid is lost. Why does this have to take place before the sun comes up on a *Monday* morning?

Maintenance
And now, maintenance has added a special new layer of hell. That means placing final bids at 4A East / 1A West and then being at the mercy of whenever servers come back up to know the results and search for a location if the bid isn't won.

Why do kiosk flip times have to be early Monday morning? How about something closer to peak play time so people don't have to interrupt their sleep 1-2 times every Monday just to secure a kiosk?

I realize this affects a small slice of the community and there are far more pressing issues that affect bigger portions of the population. But c'mon. These have been our main "pain points" with Trading Guilds for a very long time and despite extensive and thoughtful feedback, we can't even get an answer, let alone any sort of improvement to the situation.

Suggestions:
- Eliminate bid spying once and for all.
- Move kiosk flip time to something at or near "prime time" on Saturday or Sunday nights, when we're all online holding our end of week guild events.
- If the above isn't possible, can we please be told why? And if that's the case, then yes, the last resort would be a request to move maintenance so it doesn't directly conflict with this critical game mechanic for trading guilds, but it seems there are much greater benefits to moving Kiosk flip times instead, to a time that would never interfere with regular maintenance and would allow people to get a good night's sleep. Mondays are hard enough as it is!


@ZOS_GinaBruno

esofan86

Anslay wrote: »

hiyde wrote: »

I'd like to take this opportunity to lay out a few of the issues we have with Kiosk flip times. Despite our best efforts of asking about this and suggesting specific solutions for over a year, we've never had any sort of response.

Bid Spying
It remains a huge issue in the game and is extremely easy to do. It is possible to calculate EXACTLY what a guild has bid *before* the bids process. This forces guilds in a competitive location to be on just before the kiosks flip to "top off" their bid. Numerous suggestions have been put forth to eliminate this issue once and for all. Removing bids from the history (which used to be posted after the bids processed) has accomplished nothing other than reducing transparency to members while allowing bid spies to keep right on spying. This also creates paranoia and bad blood between guilds.

Flip Time
In the summer, Kiosks flip at 5AM PDT / 8AM EDT. It's even worse in the winter - an hour earlier!
Highly active trade guilds typically do their biggest events on Sunday night and then have just a few hours to grab some sleep and be present for the flip. Even if bid-spying was eliminated, Officers still have to be on to search for an open location if the bid is lost. Why does this have to take place before the sun comes up on a *Monday* morning?

Maintenance
And now, maintenance has added a special new layer of hell. That means placing final bids at 4A East / 1A West and then being at the mercy of whenever servers come back up to know the results and search for a location if the bid isn't won.

Why do kiosk flip times have to be early Monday morning? How about something closer to peak play time so people don't have to interrupt their sleep 1-2 times every Monday just to secure a kiosk?

I realize this affects a small slice of the community and there are far more pressing issues that affect bigger portions of the population. But c'mon. These have been our main "pain points" with Trading Guilds for a very long time and despite extensive and thoughtful feedback, we can't even get an answer, let alone any sort of improvement to the situation.

Suggestions:
- Eliminate bid spying once and for all.
- Move kiosk flip time to something at or near "prime time" on Saturday or Sunday nights, when we're all online holding our end of week guild events.
- If the above isn't possible, can we please be told why? And if that's the case, then yes, the last resort would be a request to move maintenance so it doesn't directly conflict with this critical game mechanic for trading guilds, but it seems there are much greater benefits to moving Kiosk flip times instead, to a time that would never interfere with regular maintenance and would allow people to get a good night's sleep. Mondays are hard enough as it is!


@ZOS_GinaBruno

This is perfectly stated. /signed

Well said.

Epona222

And now the server is back online, and I'm still sat here watching my download progress bar and cursing my internet connection. *cries*

Annalyse

Cryptical wrote: »

So people overpay for a greasy product due to store location.

I have to disagree with you on that, at least where I live. I don't eat there anymore because the food is gross, but when I was in university I ate there a lot, despite the locations being somewhat inconvenient for me. Why? Prices. McDonalds was way cheaper than anywhere else to eat so if I really didn't want to cook, it was the best option. Occasionally I would spend more at the convenient places close to the university but in general, it was cheaper for me to go out of my way to McDonalds. (I do think your analogy would work using Starbucks, though. I find their stuff overpriced but there are so many of them that people just go there anyway.)

As to the topic of this thread, I find it ridiculous that this hasn't even gotten one reply from a ZOS official yet. This is a very big deal that could be fixed with absolutely no work at all. After all, they managed to change maintenance times just fine once already - so why not just do that again but this time actually think of what might benefit the playerbase?