Stop Buffing Things. Start Nerfing More Things

Yoyuyi999

DisgracefulMind wrote: »

KenaPKK wrote: »

Zheg wrote: »

KenaPKK wrote: »

Yoyuyi999 wrote: »

KenaPKK wrote: »

PainfulFAFA wrote: »

Fasalla is the next item on the list that needs a HUGE nerf for the sake of Pvp balance AND pvp performance. Prolly gonna need 30 maybe 40 threads for that one...

Only after they nerf healing.

They dont need to do that. What they could do is nerf sustain, which would cause less healing overtime in the span of a fight. If I go full defensive its resource intensive on a magicka build. However, on a stamina build I can recover easily due to how little sustain it costs to recover and heal.

All I heard was "Major Mending + CP makes Vigor heal too much." lol

CP overinflates stats across the board. Hots tick for over 2k without Major Mending, Honor the Dead heals for 20k+, people are one shotting each other, people are tanking small zergs (albeit mostly with broken sets, not CP), no one ever runs out of resources...ugh. I'm so tired of it all.

OK. Let's really try and not exaggerate. Most of us are in agreement on a lot of the broken things, but a very very strong HtD on someone with all CP in healing will crit around 15k-ish with major mending on. Even a major vitality potion wouldn't bring you that high, you'd need both that and malubeth proc.

If you don't know the numbers, just say "high" or "hits hard". There's enough misinformation on these forums as it is, we don't need to exaggerate on top of that.

Lyric's record when I was hanging out on K-Hole TS as of a couple months back was 22k, Michael hit a 24k yesterday. They're above the norm, but they're doable. I wouldn't make up a number like that, so please don't imply that I am.

I'm actually going to defend Kena on this. I've definitely hit a 20k+ BoL in PvP lol. Which is an absurd number, I agree.

I wonder what my PvE heal setup could do... xD

Just have to take the mending passive into account, honestly. The numbers are going to be high the less HP the person you hit has.

Yes, but your spec'd for healer, no?

PainfulFAFA

Some of you magplars getting 20k BoLs also have to remember healing from low HP = phat heals because of certain templar passives. It might not be a healing issue it could as well be a class balance issue lol

Draxys

+1million agree. The game needs serious reworking.

Essiaga

Yoyuyi999 wrote: »

KenaPKK wrote: »

PainfulFAFA wrote: »

Fasalla is the next item on the list that needs a HUGE nerf for the sake of Pvp balance AND pvp performance. Prolly gonna need 30 maybe 40 threads for that one...

Only after they nerf healing.

They dont need to do that. What they could do is nerf sustain, which would cause less healing overtime in the span of a fight. If I go full defensive its resource intensive on a magicka build. However, on a stamina build I can recover easily due to how little sustain it costs to recover and heal.

I wish they scaled healing off something other then damage. then gave templar back some of the mitigation they stole from it. I hate this dps templar we got today.

Jules

KenaPKK wrote: »

Zheg wrote: »

KenaPKK wrote: »

Yoyuyi999 wrote: »

KenaPKK wrote: »

PainfulFAFA wrote: »

Fasalla is the next item on the list that needs a HUGE nerf for the sake of Pvp balance AND pvp performance. Prolly gonna need 30 maybe 40 threads for that one...

Only after they nerf healing.

They dont need to do that. What they could do is nerf sustain, which would cause less healing overtime in the span of a fight. If I go full defensive its resource intensive on a magicka build. However, on a stamina build I can recover easily due to how little sustain it costs to recover and heal.

All I heard was "Major Mending + CP makes Vigor heal too much." lol

CP overinflates stats across the board. Hots tick for over 2k without Major Mending, Honor the Dead heals for 20k+, people are one shotting each other, people are tanking small zergs (albeit mostly with broken sets, not CP), no one ever runs out of resources...ugh. I'm so tired of it all.

OK. Let's really try and not exaggerate. Most of us are in agreement on a lot of the broken things, but a very very strong HtD on someone with all CP in healing will crit around 15k-ish with major mending on. Even a major vitality potion wouldn't bring you that high, you'd need both that and malubeth proc.

If you don't know the numbers, just say "high" or "hits hard". There's enough misinformation on these forums as it is, we don't need to exaggerate on top of that.

Lyric's record when I was hanging out on K-Hole TS as of a couple months back was 22k, Michael hit a 24k yesterday. They're above the norm, but they're doable. I wouldn't make up a number like that, so please don't imply that I am.

I've hit 19.5k crit BOL before. I believe that was the highest I've ever hit. 15k is no where near max.

Qbiken

PvP logic once again: Tanking more than 1 player longer than 5 seconds is considered broken/OP and those itemsets used by tanking must be nerfed/removed, but 2-3 shooting someone is completely legit.

Mojomonkeyman

Ressource management due to softcaps was the most important layer of skill this game had. ESO wasn`t skill based anymore since the removal of said softcaps.

However, even if we had softcaps in place now - healing would be miles ahead of anything else due to mending/vitality stacking which is not affected by softcaps in its old form. Which would, again, force people to run burst builds because of how strong and efficient healing over time gets with those two buffs.

As long as mending/vitality is as easily accessible and stackable on certain classes sets like fasalla are the only viable choice to not run burst builds and focus more on tactical gameplay.

If you remove fasalla you have to merge major mending/vitality to one single buff which would increase healing done by the same amount major defile would decrease healing.

Olyboi

Unless they limit the game to 7 pieces of armour, a set of weapons, the same race and the same skills there will always be some things that have a small edge overall some of the time.

Join or die!

Love my Malubeth.

But yeah seriously nerf the amount of greenery in the game because I am colourblind!

DisgracefulMind

Yoyuyi999 wrote: »

DisgracefulMind wrote: »

KenaPKK wrote: »

Zheg wrote: »

KenaPKK wrote: »

Yoyuyi999 wrote: »

KenaPKK wrote: »

PainfulFAFA wrote: »

Fasalla is the next item on the list that needs a HUGE nerf for the sake of Pvp balance AND pvp performance. Prolly gonna need 30 maybe 40 threads for that one...

Only after they nerf healing.

They dont need to do that. What they could do is nerf sustain, which would cause less healing overtime in the span of a fight. If I go full defensive its resource intensive on a magicka build. However, on a stamina build I can recover easily due to how little sustain it costs to recover and heal.

All I heard was "Major Mending + CP makes Vigor heal too much." lol

CP overinflates stats across the board. Hots tick for over 2k without Major Mending, Honor the Dead heals for 20k+, people are one shotting each other, people are tanking small zergs (albeit mostly with broken sets, not CP), no one ever runs out of resources...ugh. I'm so tired of it all.

OK. Let's really try and not exaggerate. Most of us are in agreement on a lot of the broken things, but a very very strong HtD on someone with all CP in healing will crit around 15k-ish with major mending on. Even a major vitality potion wouldn't bring you that high, you'd need both that and malubeth proc.

If you don't know the numbers, just say "high" or "hits hard". There's enough misinformation on these forums as it is, we don't need to exaggerate on top of that.

Lyric's record when I was hanging out on K-Hole TS as of a couple months back was 22k, Michael hit a 24k yesterday. They're above the norm, but they're doable. I wouldn't make up a number like that, so please don't imply that I am.

I'm actually going to defend Kena on this. I've definitely hit a 20k+ BoL in PvP lol. Which is an absurd number, I agree.

I wonder what my PvE heal setup could do... xD

Just have to take the mending passive into account, honestly. The numbers are going to be high the less HP the person you hit has.

Yes, but your spec'd for healer, no?

Nah not the build I roam around in 90% of the time when I don't have raid.

DKsUnite

/signed

bring softcaps or destroy the champion system or destroy our stats to a ridiculous patch

AND THEN AFTER THAT BUFF MDK BECAUSE IT WOULD BE HORRIBLE WITH THESE NERFS ON TOP OF IT xD

Edziu

Qbiken wrote: »

PvP logic once again: Tanking more than 1 player longer than 5 seconds is considered broken/OP and those itemsets used by tanking must be nerfed/removed, but 2-3 shooting someone is completely legit.

no, if you can see now the most people are tankly, sustain with still good burst, some patches ago you have needed tank build to do this and you havent with it so high burst

Derra

Wtb 1.6 with 351 cp cap.

GreenSoup2HoT

Nerfing unchained would be a good start in my opinion. Who in the right mind thought it was a good idea to give 80% reduce stamina cost after cc breaking...

DisgracefulMind

Derra wrote: »

Wtb 1.6 with 351 cp cap.

yes plz

Ishammael

Derra wrote: »

Wtb 1.6 with 351 cp cap.

No battle spirit, right?
What about stam regen while blocking?

Derra

Ishammael wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Wtb 1.6 with 351 cp cap.

No battle spirit, right?
What about stam regen while blocking?

Everything from back then.

Actually the only thing i would change would be to lower the potency of cost reduction jewelry to match all other jewelry enchants back then (it was 64 spelldmg for example).

Yoyuyi999

I think removing CP would do a lot to help this game go in the right direction, but I don't think adding softcaps is a realistic option anymore knowing ZoS

OrphanHelgen

no.. nerfes are boring.. buffs are fun.
Buffs means game progression. its fun..

-1 your post

KisoValley

They'll never take away CP because of PVE.

Yoyuyi999

OrphanHelgen wrote: »

no.. nerfes are boring.. buffs are fun.
Buffs means game progression. its fun..

-1 your post

You're wrong lmao. Look what happened to the game now that they essentially buffed everything. It's stale, no skill and incredibly boring. -1 to your comment.

OrphanHelgen

Yoyuyi999 wrote: »

OrphanHelgen wrote: »

no.. nerfes are boring.. buffs are fun.
Buffs means game progression. its fun..

-1 your post

You're wrong lmao. Look what happened to the game now that they essentially buffed everything. It's stale, no skill and incredibly boring. -1 to your comment.

XD

Manoekin

Mojomonkeyman wrote: »

Ressource management due to softcaps was the most important layer of skill this game had. ESO wasn`t skill based anymore since the removal of said softcaps.

However, even if we had softcaps in place now - healing would be miles ahead of anything else due to mending/vitality stacking which is not affected by softcaps in its old form. Which would, again, force people to run burst builds because of how strong and efficient healing over time gets with those two buffs.

As long as mending/vitality is as easily accessible and stackable on certain classes sets like fasalla are the only viable choice to not run burst builds and focus more on tactical gameplay.

If you remove fasalla you have to merge major mending/vitality to one single buff which would increase healing done by the same amount major defile would decrease healing.

IMO healing outpaced damage more back then than it does now. Templar and resto staff passives have been nerfed into the ground if you compare them to what they were before. Players also had a lot more health back then relatively.

Yoyuyi999

The major problem to everything is sustain. We're able to sustain with such low regen so in turn we can also get more survivability w/ heals and get more damage. Just nerf sustain somehow ples

Ishammael

Derra wrote: »

Ishammael wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Wtb 1.6 with 351 cp cap.

No battle spirit, right?
What about stam regen while blocking?

Everything from back then.

Actually the only thing i would change would be to lower the potency of cost reduction jewelry to match all other jewelry enchants back then (it was 64 spelldmg for example).

Derra wrote: »

Ishammael wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Wtb 1.6 with 351 cp cap.

No battle spirit, right?
What about stam regen while blocking?

Everything from back then.

Actually the only thing i would change would be to lower the potency of cost reduction jewelry to match all other jewelry enchants back then (it was 64 spelldmg for example).

I'm sold.

Yoyuyi999

Ishammael wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Ishammael wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Wtb 1.6 with 351 cp cap.

No battle spirit, right?
What about stam regen while blocking?

Everything from back then.

Actually the only thing i would change would be to lower the potency of cost reduction jewelry to match all other jewelry enchants back then (it was 64 spelldmg for example).

Derra wrote: »

Ishammael wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Wtb 1.6 with 351 cp cap.

No battle spirit, right?
What about stam regen while blocking?

Everything from back then.

Actually the only thing i would change would be to lower the potency of cost reduction jewelry to match all other jewelry enchants back then (it was 64 spelldmg for example).

I'm sold.

Ya I also think the buff to jewelry glyphs were also too much. I feel like they should at least give regular amount of stats that armor sets do n stuff

KenaPKK

Yoyuyi999 wrote: »

Ishammael wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Ishammael wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Wtb 1.6 with 351 cp cap.

No battle spirit, right?
What about stam regen while blocking?

Everything from back then.

Actually the only thing i would change would be to lower the potency of cost reduction jewelry to match all other jewelry enchants back then (it was 64 spelldmg for example).

Derra wrote: »

Ishammael wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Wtb 1.6 with 351 cp cap.

No battle spirit, right?
What about stam regen while blocking?

Everything from back then.

Actually the only thing i would change would be to lower the potency of cost reduction jewelry to match all other jewelry enchants back then (it was 64 spelldmg for example).

I'm sold.

Ya I also think the buff to jewelry glyphs were also too much. I feel like they should at least give regular amount of stats that armor sets do n stuff

The comparison is arbitrary.

Yoyuyi999

KenaPKK wrote: »

Yoyuyi999 wrote: »

Ishammael wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Ishammael wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Wtb 1.6 with 351 cp cap.

No battle spirit, right?
What about stam regen while blocking?

Everything from back then.

Actually the only thing i would change would be to lower the potency of cost reduction jewelry to match all other jewelry enchants back then (it was 64 spelldmg for example).

Derra wrote: »

Ishammael wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Wtb 1.6 with 351 cp cap.

No battle spirit, right?
What about stam regen while blocking?

Everything from back then.

Actually the only thing i would change would be to lower the potency of cost reduction jewelry to match all other jewelry enchants back then (it was 64 spelldmg for example).

I'm sold.

Ya I also think the buff to jewelry glyphs were also too much. I feel like they should at least give regular amount of stats that armor sets do n stuff

The comparison is arbitrary.

What?

Bromburak

Yoyuyi999 wrote: »

Its why dueling is becoming less and less popular. Fights are becoming less skill based and more about your spec, stats, class, race, etc.

I am certain that I kill you with any race and class and if I don't someone else will ...

And the reason for this is that adapting changes to encounter opponents or whatever is part of player skill.
The problem is that most players copy templates/builds whatever and think they match or suitable for their own play style.

The reality is that most of them can't handle it and they are not flexible either to adapt breaking changes in combat because they expect things should match their old habits ...

Such players are basically moving into modern war with gear and outdated experience from last century ...
Every player needs experience with "new" things over and over again, in other words we all need to learn but instead most players have no patience and stuck with their outdated habits.

It has lot more todo with player skill than you actually think.

Hashtag_

Yoyuyi999 wrote: »

DisgracefulMind wrote: »

KenaPKK wrote: »

Zheg wrote: »

KenaPKK wrote: »

Yoyuyi999 wrote: »

KenaPKK wrote: »

PainfulFAFA wrote: »

Fasalla is the next item on the list that needs a HUGE nerf for the sake of Pvp balance AND pvp performance. Prolly gonna need 30 maybe 40 threads for that one...

Only after they nerf healing.

They dont need to do that. What they could do is nerf sustain, which would cause less healing overtime in the span of a fight. If I go full defensive its resource intensive on a magicka build. However, on a stamina build I can recover easily due to how little sustain it costs to recover and heal.

All I heard was "Major Mending + CP makes Vigor heal too much." lol

CP overinflates stats across the board. Hots tick for over 2k without Major Mending, Honor the Dead heals for 20k+, people are one shotting each other, people are tanking small zergs (albeit mostly with broken sets, not CP), no one ever runs out of resources...ugh. I'm so tired of it all.

OK. Let's really try and not exaggerate. Most of us are in agreement on a lot of the broken things, but a very very strong HtD on someone with all CP in healing will crit around 15k-ish with major mending on. Even a major vitality potion wouldn't bring you that high, you'd need both that and malubeth proc.

If you don't know the numbers, just say "high" or "hits hard". There's enough misinformation on these forums as it is, we don't need to exaggerate on top of that.

Lyric's record when I was hanging out on K-Hole TS as of a couple months back was 22k, Michael hit a 24k yesterday. They're above the norm, but they're doable. I wouldn't make up a number like that, so please don't imply that I am.

I'm actually going to defend Kena on this. I've definitely hit a 20k+ BoL in PvP lol. Which is an absurd number, I agree.

I wonder what my PvE heal setup could do... xD

Just have to take the mending passive into account, honestly. The numbers are going to be high the less HP the person you hit has.

Yes, but your spec'd for healer, no?

I know DPS spec'd templars hitting on the regular 15k+ BoL's. Those same templars are running heavy armor builds too with hella damage while using purple food. When their magicka gets low they just switch to SnB bar and block to get magicka back while getting stamina returned through heavy passives.

Yoyuyi999

Bromburak wrote: »

Yoyuyi999 wrote: »

Its why dueling is becoming less and less popular. Fights are becoming less skill based and more about your spec, stats, class, race, etc.

Simply not true and I am certain that I kill you with any race and class and if I don't someone else will ...

And the reason is that adapting changes to encounter opponents or whatever is part of player skill.
The problem is that you guys copy templates and think the suitable for your play style.

But reality is that many players can't handle it or they are still playing "outdated" because of bad habits.
The problem is that you are not flexible enough to adapt breaking changes in combat because you expect things matching your old habits ...

I am totally down to duel you or anyone else you throw at me. It is true and a lot of top tier players know it. I don't run out of stamina anymore, especially with my race, class and spec. I still have an immense amount of damage at my disposable as well. I don't copy templates either, I make my own builds lmao. I don't lose 1v1s anymore. And if I do it's against other top tier players. I'm not making this post because I lost too many fights and I was salty, it's because people are realizing this game is so stale and not fun due to the lack of skill it requires. I'm not the only one who thinks this.

EDIT: Another thing, what makes you believe this is not true? Have you seen two top tier players duel? It simply does not end, and if it does its due to a mistake and not something like an outplay. NOBODY... Actually, I mean no GOOD player runs out of resources and it leads to fights drawling out and becoming all about timed burst. And even now survivability is so good (Partly because of immense sustain) that bursting people is incredibly hard as well. Don't get me wrong, when I'm killing *** players openworld or even at duels the fight doesnt last long. But I'm talking about with the EXPERIENCED players. Bad players will always be bad. But for some *** reason, ZoS is trying to cater to the bad players when it is clear even these kinds of stupid buffs that make it all about stats aren't even going to help them.

EDIT2: And last thing before I await your reply; "However, sustain and survival for long lasting fights or ending up in a tie is part of Top player competitions. All Top player fights are decided by sustain and patience. Nobody said it's easy to find the perfect balance between sustain and acceptable DPS for a class but it's essential in duels and Magicka NBs are in a very good spot here." this is a quote from yourself. This is exactly what's wrong with the game, this game has a very low skill cap. Once you reach that specific skillcap there's really no going higher. I RARELY see fights among good players where people lose due to being outplayed. Now it's just long ass fights with ties at the end. And like I said, good players dont run out of resources. Especially with the use of pots. So now it just becomes an everlasting game of, "whoever makes the first mistake" Tell me, do you think these long fights where no one dies unless its a stupid mistake is healthy for this game? I honestly don't think so. Look back at 1.5 when people used real tactics to outplay each other, either by bursting people skillfully, or outlasting people in terms of resources. That simply just doesn't happen anymore.