Stop Buffing Things. Start Nerfing More Things

Yoyuyi999

@KisoValley @LegendaryMage does any of this *** matter? Jesus christ, whats done is done. I dont want this thread being taken down purely because of drama completely unrelated to the topic

LegendaryMage

Yoyuyi999 wrote: »

@KisoValley @LegendaryMage does any of this *** matter? Jesus christ, whats done is done. I dont want this thread being taken down purely because of drama completely unrelated to the topic

If this liar didn't talk all this crap I wouldn't have been here, you can thank him. But don't worry, I won't be responding to his non-sense anymore. I'm tired of these trolls, like really really really tired. Kiso, do let me know your @name, wanna put you on ignore in the game too.

Glory

So much nostalgia, everyone who remembers 1.5 wants it back.

Ishammael wrote: »

Xeven wrote: »

Confirming Yoyuyi is one of the top players PC NA without question.

Now I want us all to take a step back from our egos for a moment. When I was at the top of my game it was 1.6 and Sorc was OP as balls. Do I still perform well, am I still competitive? Yes. Can I take out 6 players without breaking a sweat anymore?

Absolutely not.

When Yoyuyi was at the top of his game there was no Hardy star as we know it now, and dragon leap was the only Ult that scaled with Mighty. We all rode the gravy train at one point or another.

We are NOT as good as we think we are, and skill NEVER mattered as much as we think it did.

Is skill a thing? Absolutely. Do I want it to be worth more than it currently is? Absolutely, but I will say this. There are only so many combos and so many options in a game with 10 skill slots, 1 potion slot, 2 ults, and a hard cap of 60 APM due to global cooldowns.

There is a hard cap on skill. It will only take you so far simply because of game mechanics that have ALWAYS been there.

WTB CU beta.

Same... When it comes out I need friends to play with meh. Will you be my friend?

tinythinker

Yoyuyi999 wrote: »

I'm ready for the forum hate, but frankly, at this point I could care less.

This game is becoming more and more stale. Rarely anyone runs out of resources, people are able to hit incredibly hard, and still be incredibly survivable. Its why dueling is becoming less and less popular. Fights are becoming less skill based and more about your spec, stats, class, race, etc.

I constantly see people say on the forums "nerfs are bad, just buff Y to make it as good as X." To that I say, no. That's a horrible idea. Does anyone remember the 1.6 PTS? When everyone had 3600 CP? Do you find that skillful at all? When everyone is immensely powerful no one truly is. It's just all stats and power at that point. HOWEVER, when everyone was 'weak' (when softcaps were around) people had actual skillful fights. People relied less on their stats, skills, etc and used their actual player skill to carry themselves and fight.

Thats all I have to say. People hate the idea of nerfs, and I do too honestly. But at this poinr this game needs a major revamp. The only class I find truly balanced as of right now is Magicka DK. If you want perfect sustain you lose damage. If you want good damage you lose sustain. The class requires a lot of sacrifice and takes true skill. Everything else is OP outside of Magicka DK. Nerf (or revamp) everything to make them live the magicka dk.

Well, that's why I wrote this: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/280683/promoting-build-role-diversity-in-pvp-and-pve

I am an average player who runs all classes, usually magicka, and I've noticed things that help me getting nerfed and that hurt me getting buffed because ZOS seems to be balancing around the outliers. The thing is, with the power creep they introduced since 1.6, it's really hard to do fair balancing that doesn't screw over a significant number of players every update.

The system I recommend let's you play whatever style and build you like, but if you want to have a particular stat or two super-high, you have to accept a significant penalty or deficiency somewhere else, not just a token bid at balance that some players can get around while everyone else is handicapped. Glass cannons are truly cannons but also super-brittle. Those who want to hit super hard but dodge roll away better play it just right or they are out of resources before they can escape. And so on.

But if you simply have average to a bit above average stats, you can be well-rounded in all areas without the weaknesses, which gives a greater chance for hybrid builds, etc, and lets average players get to a respectable build with a reasonable amount of effort. Those who want the twinked out builds with rare gear can still that, but again, they need actual skill and to be committed to that play style.

Details and examples in the link given.

Ishammael

ebethke_ESO wrote: »

So much nostalgia, everyone who remembers 1.5 wants it back.

Ishammael wrote: »

Xeven wrote: »

Confirming Yoyuyi is one of the top players PC NA without question.

Now I want us all to take a step back from our egos for a moment. When I was at the top of my game it was 1.6 and Sorc was OP as balls. Do I still perform well, am I still competitive? Yes. Can I take out 6 players without breaking a sweat anymore?

Absolutely not.

When Yoyuyi was at the top of his game there was no Hardy star as we know it now, and dragon leap was the only Ult that scaled with Mighty. We all rode the gravy train at one point or another.

We are NOT as good as we think we are, and skill NEVER mattered as much as we think it did.

Is skill a thing? Absolutely. Do I want it to be worth more than it currently is? Absolutely, but I will say this. There are only so many combos and so many options in a game with 10 skill slots, 1 potion slot, 2 ults, and a hard cap of 60 APM due to global cooldowns.

There is a hard cap on skill. It will only take you so far simply because of game mechanics that have ALWAYS been there.

WTB CU beta.

Same... When it comes out I need friends to play with meh. Will you be my friend?

We can be friends.

bowmanz607

Get rid of cp if you want that playstyle back op. No cp campaigns are best to truly test your skill. If you want tons of damage you lose sustain etc. It is how this game is supposed to be and 1.6 screwed it all up.

KenaPKK

Xeven wrote: »

Confirming Yoyuyi is one of the top players PC NA without question.

Now I want us all to take a step back from our egos for a moment. When I was at the top of my game it was 1.6 and Sorc was OP as balls. Do I still perform well, am I still competitive? Yes. Can I take out 6 players without breaking a sweat anymore?

Absolutely not.

When Yoyuyi was at the top of his game there was no Hardy star as we know it now, and dragon leap was the only Ult that scaled with Mighty. We all rode the gravy train at one point or another.

We are NOT as good as we think we are, and skill NEVER mattered as much as we think it did.

Is skill a thing? Absolutely. Do I want it to be worth more than it currently is? Absolutely, but I will say this. There are only so many combos and so many options in a game with 10 skill slots, 1 potion slot, 2 ults, and a hard cap of 60 APM due to global cooldowns.

There is a hard cap on skill. It will only take you so far simply because of game mechanics that have ALWAYS been there.

I realized last night that this is absolutely correct. Skill doesn't win duels anymore. Broken mechanics do.

OtarTheMad

Things change a lot in this game and for me, a "casual" now, it's hard to keep up with what you're supposed to have stats wise and/or gear wise because like so many have said... it's not about skill anymore really.

I remember when I was able to jump into a tower farm on my Sorc and drop Bat Swarm, Impulse, Mines and Proxy and kill a good amount of them while the rest of my group finishes them off... now... can't do that anymore.

It's hard for me to say that nerfs are the answer because I do not think that those will bring us back to what the game was or adjust the game to what we know it can be. However I do not know another route. The game is still fun but could be better.

Bromburak

OtarTheMad wrote: »

Things change a lot in this game and for me, a "casual" now, it's hard to keep up with what you're supposed to have stats wise and/or gear wise because like so many have said... it's not about skill anymore really.

I remember when I was able to jump into a tower farm on my Sorc and drop Bat Swarm, Impulse, Mines and Proxy and kill a good amount of them while the rest of my group finishes them off... now... can't do that anymore

And you seriously think that your described scenario had something todo with skill?
Imo it's just your personal definition of fun to play and that certain things were much easier.

To be straight and honest, you were happy to accomplish things easily because it was casual friendly but it never required skill ...

Rage_Killin

"Nerf EVERYTHING." Its you people that make the game loose players everyday. There is a major problem but nerfing everything won't solve it.

Wycks

Just play on the non cp campaign like everyone else, it's the most fun. Wrobble cant balance this game at all so playing with less is actually better.

Though poisons are even more *** on non CP campaigns, ...

so we really need a no CP / no Poison / no cold fire siege campaign.

KenaPKK

Rage_Killin wrote: »

"Nerf EVERYTHING." Its you people that make the game loose players everyday. There is a major problem but nerfing everything won't solve it.

No one said to nerf everything.

It's the fact that the game has so many overtuned and op mechanics that makes it so stale, yet people like you turn your noses up at any nerfs on principle and motivate ZOS to keep the game in its current state. And THAT is why the game loses players every day.

Vindemiatrix

Ghost-Shot wrote: »

Ishammael wrote: »

WTB 1.5 private server
Yeah, I'll pay $50 again

1.4, ground oils

I was fighting on Ash lawn yesterday, and somehow, despite being nowhere near a building, ended up with oil damage on my death recap. I thought of you.

KenaPKK

Vindemiatrix wrote: »

Ghost-Shot wrote: »

Ishammael wrote: »

WTB 1.5 private server
Yeah, I'll pay $50 again

1.4, ground oils

I was fighting on Ash lawn yesterday, and somehow, despite being nowhere near a building, ended up with oil damage on my death recap. I thought of you.

Death recap working as intended.

Ghost-Shot

Vindemiatrix wrote: »

Ghost-Shot wrote: »

Ishammael wrote: »

WTB 1.5 private server
Yeah, I'll pay $50 again

1.4, ground oils

I was fighting on Ash lawn yesterday, and somehow, despite being nowhere near a building, ended up with oil damage on my death recap. I thought of you.

Its too good to be true!

OtarTheMad

Bromburak wrote: »

OtarTheMad wrote: »

Things change a lot in this game and for me, a "casual" now, it's hard to keep up with what you're supposed to have stats wise and/or gear wise because like so many have said... it's not about skill anymore really.

I remember when I was able to jump into a tower farm on my Sorc and drop Bat Swarm, Impulse, Mines and Proxy and kill a good amount of them while the rest of my group finishes them off... now... can't do that anymore

And you seriously think that your described scenario had something todo with skill?
Imo it's just your personal definition of fun to play and that certain things were much easier.

To be straight and honest, you were happy to accomplish things easily because it was casual friendly but it never required skill ...

lol, okay. I was just describing one scenario to make my post short. It doesn't take skill to jump into a tower being occupied by enemies and not only survive but take out most of them pretty much by yourself? I only got "casual" recently because I got a job that requires more of my time and a girlfriend. It's called life lol.

Love how you got so overly aggressive in your response trying to bring me down over a game. I was just trying to agree with the OP and say that things have changed in the game. I was able to do 1vX's and jump into a group of pugs and take out most of them but not so much anymore. With the cost of making gear alone it's harder, I just simply don't have time to be farming mats to make crafted gear that'll cost me over 700 mats... especially for the 2-3 characters I typically use all of the time.

Hell just yesterday I was taking on this guy, we were having a good fight and I almost had him down and then out of no where I dropped dead. My health went from 80% to 0% in a click, I doubt the player was macroing or cheating but with lag alone it's harder to do things now. I am guessing I was a victim of the crit charge bug, no big deal... not his fault.

Xsorus

KenaPKK wrote: »

Xeven wrote: »

Confirming Yoyuyi is one of the top players PC NA without question.

Now I want us all to take a step back from our egos for a moment. When I was at the top of my game it was 1.6 and Sorc was OP as balls. Do I still perform well, am I still competitive? Yes. Can I take out 6 players without breaking a sweat anymore?

Absolutely not.

When Yoyuyi was at the top of his game there was no Hardy star as we know it now, and dragon leap was the only Ult that scaled with Mighty. We all rode the gravy train at one point or another.

We are NOT as good as we think we are, and skill NEVER mattered as much as we think it did.

Is skill a thing? Absolutely. Do I want it to be worth more than it currently is? Absolutely, but I will say this. There are only so many combos and so many options in a game with 10 skill slots, 1 potion slot, 2 ults, and a hard cap of 60 APM due to global cooldowns.

There is a hard cap on skill. It will only take you so far simply because of game mechanics that have ALWAYS been there.

I realized last night that this is absolutely correct. Skill doesn't win duels anymore. Broken mechanics do.

Anymore? Most of the duels were won by luck and mechanics when you get to a certain point in gameplay know how.....Skill really hasn't been a huge factor in this game. In fact if you're playing an MMORPG chances are you win duels based on your ability to find out Mechanics that work for you....and using it to your advantage.

I'll use an example of this from Guild Wars 2

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aKQFfbriD5Y

This is me vs Faux, we're both comparable in terms of skill level. We're both playing the same class...Playing VERY similar setups...He was Natures based Regen Bunker build, I was a Beastmaster Regen Bunker Build.

He won the first duel against me, After that first fight I remembered one important mechanic on a Ranger, If your pet dies you die to a condition build. So I simply went after his Mechanic, aka his weaker pet. Since My pet was stronger via beastmaster (Again a Mechanic) he couldn't kill mine before I swapped. We dueled a few more times after that and I won every single fight.

Now some might say it was skillful to swap up my strategy but that was simply know a mechanic that most people would be able to spot and using it to my advantage; i played virtually the same way i only swapped targets and took out the pet first.

ESO has been the same way, There is nothing super skillful about me holding block with Twin Sisters and slowly eating people away with Dots and Lethal Arrow, but it was bloody effective. it certainly didn't require more skill then say my undaunted armor build with Taunt proccing a huge damage shield. It was simpy taking advantage of Mechanics that were available to me.

This is probably actually why @Sypher stopped dueling. cause he realized that Most 1v1 in this game are pointless, You're truly tested when you do 1vX.