Let's talk about why there is no Magic Damage increase passive

DisgracefulMind

SwaminoNowlino wrote: »

Nifty2g wrote: »

SwaminoNowlino wrote: »

Max Magicka = increased Magic dps
Max spell power = increased magic dps
Max stamina = increased stamina dps
Max weapon damage = increased stamina dps

Max Magicka = 45kish +
Max spell power = 3000ish
Max stamina = 35k ish
Max weapon damage = 4k ish

1 k more weapon damage = 10 k more max Magicka (roughly).

In terms of balance, if you want 4K spell power then give Stam classes an extra 10k more max stamina (do you really want folks running around with 50k Stam? I don't think so). This is balance. The baseline DPS of each based on these stats are roughly equal.

I don't know where you have gotten this information from...
Max stamina and max magicka increase overall damage from every source, not a specific type of damage

And I don't think you are understanding the bases of what I am asking for with this passive change... @hedna123b14_ESO I'll let you talk about this

You are incorrect. Physical damage scales off max stamina. Magic damage scales off max magicka. If I have 50k max Magicka my biting jabs will hit like a noodle, if I have 35k max stamina they will hit harder.

It's broken down quite nicely here. http://esoacademy.com/damage-in-eso/

I think you're misunderstanding what this thread is even asking for. Magic damage is a source of damage in ESO. Just like elemental damage.

Panth141

SwaminoNowlino wrote: »

Nifty2g wrote: »

SwaminoNowlino wrote: »

Max Magicka = increased Magic dps
Max spell power = increased magic dps
Max stamina = increased stamina dps
Max weapon damage = increased stamina dps

Max Magicka = 45kish +
Max spell power = 3000ish
Max stamina = 35k ish
Max weapon damage = 4k ish

1 k more weapon damage = 10 k more max Magicka (roughly).

In terms of balance, if you want 4K spell power then give Stam classes an extra 10k more max stamina (do you really want folks running around with 50k Stam? I don't think so). This is balance. The baseline DPS of each based on these stats are roughly equal.

I don't know where you have gotten this information from...
Max stamina and max magicka increase overall damage from every source, not a specific type of damage

And I don't think you are understanding the bases of what I am asking for with this passive change... @hedna123b14_ESO I'll let you talk about this

You are incorrect. Physical damage scales off max stamina. Magic damage scales off max magicka. If I have 50k max Magicka my biting jabs will hit like a noodle, if I have 35k max stamina they will hit harder.

It's broken down quite nicely here. http://esoacademy.com/damage-in-eso/

@SwaminoNowlino

I'm going to try once and only once:

This is not a point about magicka vs stamina. Rather it's a statement that there are racial buffs that increase your elemental damage, but none that buff pure, magical damage. The question being posed is why it is the case that elemental damage (frost, fire, shock) gets racial buffs, but magic damage does not.

For example, a DK whip can be buffed by both Elemental Expert and the Dunmer passive Flame Talent. However, magic skills like Swallow Soul are buffed by only Elemental Expert - there are no similar racial passives that buff its magic damage.

Gilliamtherogue

SwaminoNowlino wrote: »

Gilliamtherogue wrote: »

@Nifty2g just report this guy for derailing the thread to get it removed. Posting misinformation, and bears 0 relevance on racial passive balancing.

All those sweet Magicka sorc wrecking blows

http://esoacademy.com/damage-in-eso/

You are extremely confused. This is a thread discussing the lack of a racial passive increasing the damage of Magic Damage types. There are the following damage types in the game; Physical, Poison, Disease, Magic, Fire, Ice, Shock, Daedra/Oblivion, and Unresistable. Any of these damage sources can scale uniquely, how they scale off of Weapon or Spell damage is based upon the cost of the ability. Stamina cost abilities use; Physical Resistance, Weapon Critical, Weapon Damage, and Max Stamina to scale. Magicka cost abilities use; Spell Resistance, Spell Critical, Spell Damage, and Max Magicka to scale.

Some abilities, such as Ultimates, scale based on whichever Max Stat and Damage (weapon or spell) is the highest. For example, Flames of Oblivion deals fire damage but scales with EITHER Max Stam/Wep damage OR Max Magicka/Spell damage. The same with ultimates.

On top of that, we are not discussing how these scale. Some racial passives amplify damage sources by a flat %, but currently there are no % amps to Magic damage, despite there being many for Fire, Ice, or Shock damage. This leaves certain classes which deal primarily Magic damage at a massive disadvantage.

Next time, READ instead of instantly feeling like you have to contribute to a post before you understand what is being discussed.

Nifty2g

SwaminoNowlino wrote: »

Nifty2g wrote: »

SwaminoNowlino wrote: »

Max Magicka = increased Magic dps
Max spell power = increased magic dps
Max stamina = increased stamina dps
Max weapon damage = increased stamina dps

Max Magicka = 45kish +
Max spell power = 3000ish
Max stamina = 35k ish
Max weapon damage = 4k ish

1 k more weapon damage = 10 k more max Magicka (roughly).

In terms of balance, if you want 4K spell power then give Stam classes an extra 10k more max stamina (do you really want folks running around with 50k Stam? I don't think so). This is balance. The baseline DPS of each based on these stats are roughly equal.

I don't know where you have gotten this information from...
Max stamina and max magicka increase overall damage from every source, not a specific type of damage

And I don't think you are understanding the bases of what I am asking for with this passive change... @hedna123b14_ESO I'll let you talk about this

You are incorrect. Physical damage scales off max stamina. Magic damage scales off max magicka. If I have 50k max Magicka my biting jabs will hit like a noodle, if I have 35k max stamina they will hit harder.

It's broken down quite nicely here. http://esoacademy.com/damage-in-eso/

That information does not go in depth what so ever, different skills are more beneficial than others based on the coefficients, nothing of what is mentioned in that website. Anyway, I'll let @hedna123b14_ESO go in more depth about it if he wants to

For now, I'll show you what I am talking about, I took all of my points out of champion system seeing as it increases your max magicka per point by a percentage.

0 Points Allocated
(Magic) Puncturing Sweeps: 828 Magic Damage
(Magic) Blazing Spear: 3238 Magic Damage / 692 Magic Damage
(Elemental) Force Pulse: 1707 Flame Damage, 1707 Cold Damage, 1707 Shock Damage


100 Points Allocated (in blessed to not affect tooltips like elemental expert and thaumaturge)
(Magic) Puncturing Sweeps: 891 Magic Damage (difference of 63)
(Magic) Blazing Spear: 3483 Magic Damage / 744 Magic Damage (difference of 245 and 52)
(Elemental) Force Pulse: 1836 Flame Damage, 1836 Cold Damage, 1836 Shock Damage (difference of 129)

Do you understand now? Try it yourself. Please don't spread misinformation

SwaminoNowlino

DisgracefulMind wrote: »

SwaminoNowlino wrote: »

Nifty2g wrote: »

SwaminoNowlino wrote: »

Max Magicka = increased Magic dps
Max spell power = increased magic dps
Max stamina = increased stamina dps
Max weapon damage = increased stamina dps

Max Magicka = 45kish +
Max spell power = 3000ish
Max stamina = 35k ish
Max weapon damage = 4k ish

1 k more weapon damage = 10 k more max Magicka (roughly).

In terms of balance, if you want 4K spell power then give Stam classes an extra 10k more max stamina (do you really want folks running around with 50k Stam? I don't think so). This is balance. The baseline DPS of each based on these stats are roughly equal.

I don't know where you have gotten this information from...
Max stamina and max magicka increase overall damage from every source, not a specific type of damage

And I don't think you are understanding the bases of what I am asking for with this passive change... @hedna123b14_ESO I'll let you talk about this

You are incorrect. Physical damage scales off max stamina. Magic damage scales off max magicka. If I have 50k max Magicka my biting jabs will hit like a noodle, if I have 35k max stamina they will hit harder.

It's broken down quite nicely here. http://esoacademy.com/damage-in-eso/

I think you're misunderstanding what this thread is even asking for. Magic damage is a source of damage in ESO. Just like elemental damage.

I'm not misunderstanding at all. I understand what is being asked for, and am pointing to why it is not necessary in my opinion. I am backing my opinion up with facts regarding how dps works in this game, citing ESO academy and have been reviewing material from Asayre to see if it disagrees with me anywhere.

I understand that base magic damage is not as high as elemental damage, which is boosted by passives, max Magicka, and elemental expert. I also know that Nifty is mainly a Templar and base magic damage passives would increase the damage of sweeps, radiant, and dark flare similar to how elemental damage boosts vampires bane.

Again, I understand exactly what I am talking about and am not derailing this thread, I am merely pointing to how a base magic passive would increase damage output of all Magicka builds beyond what is attainable by stamina builds.

Edit: the same argument can be made when looking at the stamina sides of things in that Nightblades can access disease damage and DKs can access poison. I'm not necessarily against a magic damage passive, I'm merely pointing to where it might throw off the balance. Especially since Magicka Templars are so damn strong this patch.

Information and opinions that counter yours are not misinformation. I get that you all would like base damage of magic abilities to go up, I am pointing to how the disparity in terms of max stats and damage multipliers COULD lead to screwed balance.

Nifty2g

SwaminoNowlino wrote: »

DisgracefulMind wrote: »

SwaminoNowlino wrote: »

Nifty2g wrote: »

SwaminoNowlino wrote: »

Max Magicka = increased Magic dps
Max spell power = increased magic dps
Max stamina = increased stamina dps
Max weapon damage = increased stamina dps

Max Magicka = 45kish +
Max spell power = 3000ish
Max stamina = 35k ish
Max weapon damage = 4k ish

1 k more weapon damage = 10 k more max Magicka (roughly).

In terms of balance, if you want 4K spell power then give Stam classes an extra 10k more max stamina (do you really want folks running around with 50k Stam? I don't think so). This is balance. The baseline DPS of each based on these stats are roughly equal.

I don't know where you have gotten this information from...
Max stamina and max magicka increase overall damage from every source, not a specific type of damage

And I don't think you are understanding the bases of what I am asking for with this passive change... @hedna123b14_ESO I'll let you talk about this

You are incorrect. Physical damage scales off max stamina. Magic damage scales off max magicka. If I have 50k max Magicka my biting jabs will hit like a noodle, if I have 35k max stamina they will hit harder.

It's broken down quite nicely here. http://esoacademy.com/damage-in-eso/

I think you're misunderstanding what this thread is even asking for. Magic damage is a source of damage in ESO. Just like elemental damage.

I'm not misunderstanding at all. I understand what is being asked for, and am pointing to why it is not necessary in my opinion. I am backing my opinion up with facts regarding how dps works in this game, citing ESO academy and have been reviewing material from Asayre to see if it disagrees with me anywhere.

I understand that base magic damage is not as high as elemental damage, which is boosted by passives, max Magicka, and elemental expert. I also know that Nifty is mainly a Templar and base magic damage passives would increase the damage of sweeps, radiant, and dark flare similar to how elemental damage boosts vampires bane.

Again, I understand exactly what I am talking about and am not derailing this thread, I am merely pointing to how a base magic passive would increase damage output of all Magicka builds beyond what is attainable by stamina builds.

Edit: the same argument can be made when looking at the stamina sides of things in that Nightblades can access disease damage and DKs can access poison. I'm not necessarily against a magic damage passive, I'm merely pointing to where it might throw off the balance. Especially since Magicka Templars are so damn strong this patch.

Information and opinions that counter yours are not misinformation. I get that you all would like base damage of magic abilities to go up, I am pointing to how the disparity in terms of max stats and damage multipliers COULD lead to screwed balance.

It's not going to lead to screwed up balance, it's going to give more build and race diversity for Nightblades and Templars. Considering Magic Nightblade and Templar right now in terms of damage is severely under performing because of this reason.

SwaminoNowlino

You can agree to disagree with me all you want, but I sure don't want a magic damage passive to be a racial thing. If they want to throw Templars and Nightblades a bone then sure, put it in their class passives. But giving altmer a 3% magic damage passive ? Don't disagree with Alcast much but I do there.

SwaminoNowlino

@Nifty2g I am sorry but Templar damage underperforming? In comparison to what? In terms of Magicka dps they are second on a baseline to DK, discounting sorc overload. DK still reigns King in terms of PVE dps, but I really do believe Templars are the single most balanced class from both a Magicka and Stam perspective. High damage output with great group utility, self heals and mitigation. Not to mention radiant (every thread given enough time turns into a nerf radiant thread ). Nightblade is in a weird spot since the nerf to funnel health, but it's weird to put your finger on just what they need. Their damage could be a bit higher but with their sustain it could get out of hand.

Gilliamtherogue

SwaminoNowlino wrote: »

DisgracefulMind wrote: »

SwaminoNowlino wrote: »

Nifty2g wrote: »

SwaminoNowlino wrote: »

Max Magicka = increased Magic dps
Max spell power = increased magic dps
Max stamina = increased stamina dps
Max weapon damage = increased stamina dps

Max Magicka = 45kish +
Max spell power = 3000ish
Max stamina = 35k ish
Max weapon damage = 4k ish

1 k more weapon damage = 10 k more max Magicka (roughly).

In terms of balance, if you want 4K spell power then give Stam classes an extra 10k more max stamina (do you really want folks running around with 50k Stam? I don't think so). This is balance. The baseline DPS of each based on these stats are roughly equal.

I don't know where you have gotten this information from...
Max stamina and max magicka increase overall damage from every source, not a specific type of damage

And I don't think you are understanding the bases of what I am asking for with this passive change... @hedna123b14_ESO I'll let you talk about this

You are incorrect. Physical damage scales off max stamina. Magic damage scales off max magicka. If I have 50k max Magicka my biting jabs will hit like a noodle, if I have 35k max stamina they will hit harder.

It's broken down quite nicely here. http://esoacademy.com/damage-in-eso/

I think you're misunderstanding what this thread is even asking for. Magic damage is a source of damage in ESO. Just like elemental damage.

I'm not misunderstanding at all. I understand what is being asked for, and am pointing to why it is not necessary in my opinion. I am backing my opinion up with facts regarding how dps works in this game, citing ESO academy and have been reviewing material from Asayre to see if it disagrees with me anywhere.

I understand that base magic damage is not as high as elemental damage, which is boosted by passives, max Magicka, and elemental expert. I also know that Nifty is mainly a Templar and base magic damage passives would increase the damage of sweeps, radiant, and dark flare similar to how elemental damage boosts vampires bane.

Again, I understand exactly what I am talking about and am not derailing this thread, I am merely pointing to how a base magic passive would increase damage output of all Magicka builds beyond what is attainable by stamina builds.

Edit: the same argument can be made when looking at the stamina sides of things in that Nightblades can access disease damage and DKs can access poison. I'm not necessarily against a magic damage passive, I'm merely pointing to where it might throw off the balance. Especially since Magicka Templars are so damn strong this patch.

Information and opinions that counter yours are not misinformation. I get that you all would like base damage of magic abilities to go up, I am pointing to how the disparity in terms of max stats and damage multipliers COULD lead to screwed balance.

Except for the fact that Stamina builds are out DPSing Caster builds in every way shape and form now. This is in the interest of balance, while your argument is against, despite it hindering balance.

SwaminoNowlino

@Gilliamtherogue I'm not sure what your basing that on but the best performers on console are all Magicka aside from the Stam DK, and Magicka is still largely winning out there. Stam Nightblades have some insane burst but I still expect a Magicka Templar can out DPS them over the long term. Not to mention the utility that Magicka builds tend to bring that Stam builds lack. There is more to balance than just damage output.

Nifty2g

SwaminoNowlino wrote: »

@Nifty2g I am sorry but Templar damage underperforming? In comparison to what? In terms of Magicka dps they are second on a baseline to DK, discounting sorc overload. DK still reigns King in terms of PVE dps, but I really do believe Templars are the single most balanced class from both a Magicka and Stam perspective. High damage output with great group utility, self heals and mitigation. Not to mention radiant (every thread given enough time turns into a nerf radiant thread ). Nightblade is in a weird spot since the nerf to funnel health, but it's weird to put your finger on just what they need. Their damage could be a bit higher but with their sustain it could get out of hand.

Yes Templar damage is underperforming right now due to everything I have said in here. It's probably the weakest to DPS in PvE right now compared to the others because balance is being broken.

SwaminoNowlino

Nifty2g wrote: »

SwaminoNowlino wrote: »

@Nifty2g I am sorry but Templar damage underperforming? In comparison to what? In terms of Magicka dps they are second on a baseline to DK, discounting sorc overload. DK still reigns King in terms of PVE dps, but I really do believe Templars are the single most balanced class from both a Magicka and Stam perspective. High damage output with great group utility, self heals and mitigation. Not to mention radiant (every thread given enough time turns into a nerf radiant thread ). Nightblade is in a weird spot since the nerf to funnel health, but it's weird to put your finger on just what they need. Their damage could be a bit higher but with their sustain it could get out of hand.

Yes Templar damage is underperforming right now due to everything I have said in here. It's probably the weakest to DPS in PvE right now compared to the others because balance is being broken.

I mean we will have to agree to disagree there if that's where you're coming from. I know you're all about the Templar and I don't fault you for going to bat for it, but that's just not something you'll ever convince me to buy based on what I am experiencing in game. Dark flares can hit in PVP for almost 16k... And again, there is much more to balance than DPS. Magicka DK dominates PVE but sucks in PVP. Templars are the only balanced class across the board in this whole game, in my opinion. Once they're out of overload Magicka Sorc is the bottom of the bucket in group PVE, and they have no group utility. (My Magicka sorc is used exclusively for VMA, so I'm not going to complain about sorc dos). Templars are not the best at any single thing but they're far from the bottom regardless of what you do.

Edit: Now this is derailing the thread! I understand why you want the passive but I certainly don't think it needs to be race based. Class based would be a better argument. And maybe I am wrong, but would a magic damage passive not increase elemental damage also? I guess it wouldn't because it's not spell damage. But I can say for sure that crystal frags don't need to hit any harder.

Nifty2g

SwaminoNowlino wrote: »

Nifty2g wrote: »

SwaminoNowlino wrote: »

@Nifty2g I am sorry but Templar damage underperforming? In comparison to what? In terms of Magicka dps they are second on a baseline to DK, discounting sorc overload. DK still reigns King in terms of PVE dps, but I really do believe Templars are the single most balanced class from both a Magicka and Stam perspective. High damage output with great group utility, self heals and mitigation. Not to mention radiant (every thread given enough time turns into a nerf radiant thread ). Nightblade is in a weird spot since the nerf to funnel health, but it's weird to put your finger on just what they need. Their damage could be a bit higher but with their sustain it could get out of hand.

Yes Templar damage is underperforming right now due to everything I have said in here. It's probably the weakest to DPS in PvE right now compared to the others because balance is being broken.

I mean we will have to agree to disagree there if that's where you're coming from. I know you're all about the Templar and I don't fault you for going to bat for it, but that's just not something you'll ever convince me to buy based on what I am experiencing in game. Dark flares can hit in PVP for almost 16k... And again, there is much more to balance than DPS. Magicka DK dominates PVE but sucks in PVP. Templars are the only balanced class across the board in this whole game, in my opinion. They're not the best at any single thing but they're far from the bottom regardless of what you do.

This affects both Templars and Nightblades and opens up build diversity with race diversity instead of pigeonholing every race into High Elf, in this case it is now Dunmer.
All this information is from the end game raiders of csh/infinity and hodor.

I do not understand why you are continuing your argument, there is 0 passives to increase Magic Damage, whether it be a class passive or a race passive, but every other single source of damage has a passive to increase it.

That in itself is a huge balance issue in my opinion

Gilliamtherogue

SwaminoNowlino wrote: »

@Gilliamtherogue I'm not sure what your basing that on but the best performers on console are all Magicka aside from the Stam DK, and Magicka is still largely winning out there. Stam Nightblades have some insane burst but I still expect a Magicka Templar can out DPS them over the long term. Not to mention the utility that Magicka builds tend to bring that Stam builds lack. There is more to balance than just damage output.

... All of my rage has been washed away by the sheer ignorance of this comment. Thank you. I will no longer argue with you since I see you are unfamiliar with what is happening in competitive PvE at the moment, thus unable to form accurate and meaningful context.

Manpoints

Gilliamtherogue wrote: »

SwaminoNowlino wrote: »

@Gilliamtherogue I'm not sure what your basing that on but the best performers on console are all Magicka aside from the Stam DK, and Magicka is still largely winning out there. Stam Nightblades have some insane burst but I still expect a Magicka Templar can out DPS them over the long term. Not to mention the utility that Magicka builds tend to bring that Stam builds lack. There is more to balance than just damage output.

... All of my rage has been washed away by the sheer ignorance of this comment. Thank you. I will no longer argue with you since I see you are unfamiliar with what is happening in competitive PvE at the moment, thus unable to form accurate and meaningful context.

XD

So yeah, a magic dmg passive, maybe added to high elf would be appreciated Zos. Kthnx

Nifty2g

SwaminoNowlino wrote: »

Edit: Now this is derailing the thread! I understand why you want the passive but I certainly don't think it needs to be race based. Class based would be a better argument. And maybe I am wrong, but would a magic damage passive not increase elemental damage also? I guess it wouldn't because it's not spell damage. But I can say for sure that crystal frags don't need to hit any harder.

I am choosing a racial passive because it fits in with lore. Kind of the downside you have when you are looking to balance things with lore

SwaminoNowlino

@Gilliamtherogue agree to disagree I guess. You can have your alternate reality where sorcs are somehow being used in "competitive PVE." I'll leave you to your rage thread where dissenting opinions can't be heard. But I guess my ally here is Wrobel since he seems to agree, which is an uncomfortable place for me to be in.

Slakk

I agree with this 100%.

I'm so sorry that all it takes is one person to stain such a good suggestion.

SwaminoNowlino

Nifty2g wrote: »

SwaminoNowlino wrote: »

Edit: Now this is derailing the thread! I understand why you want the passive but I certainly don't think it needs to be race based. Class based would be a better argument. And maybe I am wrong, but would a magic damage passive not increase elemental damage also? I guess it wouldn't because it's not spell damage. But I can say for sure that crystal frags don't need to hit any harder.

I am choosing a racial passive because it fits in with lore. Kind of the downside you have when you are looking to balance things with lore

Agreed there. Makes it hard to ever achieve the balance folks want when you're confined by largely single player lore.

I do enjoy everyone's rage. Sorry not everyone wants to agree with 100% of everything. I just don't want to get hit with a 20k crystal frag. That would suck.

Toc de Malsvi

There will never be a fair and accurate assessment of output without having something like WorldofLogs to compare over a broad spectrum. Given a player base as small as 500,000 you will likely only group with less than 1% of that player base thus the best comparison you could give is to compare individual numbers on players you know personally. Even then you would only get PC numbers as the Xbox/PS4 is not set up for recording that type of info. I mean you could record 5min clips and take the time to pull out the numbers from the on instantaneous damage reporting but who has the time to do that.

SwaminoNowlino

Slakk wrote: »

I agree with this 100%.

I'm so sorry that all it takes is one person to stain such a good suggestion.

Comin in and ruinin all the threads with a counter opinion. Damn me!! Be happy folks, not worth getting this worked up over. I'm entitled to disagree and am doing so with facts based on my experience.

Nifty2g

SwaminoNowlino wrote: »

Nifty2g wrote: »

SwaminoNowlino wrote: »

Edit: Now this is derailing the thread! I understand why you want the passive but I certainly don't think it needs to be race based. Class based would be a better argument. And maybe I am wrong, but would a magic damage passive not increase elemental damage also? I guess it wouldn't because it's not spell damage. But I can say for sure that crystal frags don't need to hit any harder.

I am choosing a racial passive because it fits in with lore. Kind of the downside you have when you are looking to balance things with lore

Agreed there. Makes it hard to ever achieve the balance folks want when you're confined by largely single player lore.

I do enjoy everyone's rage. Sorry not everyone wants to agree with 100% of everything. I just don't want to get hit with a 20k crystal frag. That would suck.

This sounds like you don't want balance for your own benefit, kind of contradicting this whole argument? i agree with what Slakk has said. Seems like a good idea has been stained and probably turned ZOS away. Mind stop derailing it?

SwaminoNowlino

Toc de Malsvi wrote: »

There will never be a fair and accurate assessment of output without having something like WorldofLogs to compare over a broad spectrum. Given a player base as small as 500,000 you will likely only group with less than 1% of that player base thus the best comparison you could give is to compare individual numbers on players you know personally. Even then you would only get PC numbers as the Xbox/PS4 is not set up for recording that type of info. I mean you could record 5min clips and take the time to pull out the numbers from the on instantaneous damage reporting but who has the time to do that.

A fantastic point. And hey, things may be much different on console than they are on PC (ESPECIALLY SINCE THEY WONT FIX THAUMATURGE ON TEMPLARS). But even then I'm aware of the group compositions and damage numbers of folks clearing VMOL and VetSO. Lots of Magicka Templars, even with the sweeps bug.

SwaminoNowlino

@Nifty2g nope, like I said I have a Magicka sorc used for VMA runs, I'd love for my crystal frags to hit harder there. I have a Magicka nightblade that is almost exclusively VMA, I'd love my swallow soul to hit harder there.

I'm saying and will maintain that there is more to balance than DPS. If you want your Templar to put out Magicka DK PVE numbers then strip all the group utility from it and remove the heal from sweeps.

jknight201

Nifty2g wrote: »

SwaminoNowlino wrote: »

Nifty2g wrote: »

SwaminoNowlino wrote: »

Edit: Now this is derailing the thread! I understand why you want the passive but I certainly don't think it needs to be race based. Class based would be a better argument. And maybe I am wrong, but would a magic damage passive not increase elemental damage also? I guess it wouldn't because it's not spell damage. But I can say for sure that crystal frags don't need to hit any harder.

I am choosing a racial passive because it fits in with lore. Kind of the downside you have when you are looking to balance things with lore

Agreed there. Makes it hard to ever achieve the balance folks want when you're confined by largely single player lore.

I do enjoy everyone's rage. Sorry not everyone wants to agree with 100% of everything. I just don't want to get hit with a 20k crystal frag. That would suck.

This sounds like you don't want balance for your own benefit, kind of contradicting this whole argument? i agree with what Slakk has said. Seems like a good idea has been stained and probably turned ZOS away. Mind stop derailing it?

Trying to move the conversation back - I agree with Nifty in that the racial bonuses should be balanced across races. So it would be nice to see a magic damage bonus given to one of the classes, making it more useful for magicka NB and Templars. Non-elemental magic bonus, I should add.

Slakk

If I got hit by a 20k frag in pvp I don't think it would be the racials fault...

SwaminoNowlino

Slakk wrote: »

If I got hit by a 20k frag in pvp I don't think it would be the racials fault...

My buddy wanted to test his Magicka Templar's damage in PVP a few days ago. I got on a lowbie and we ran some tests using his dark flare with me wearing impen and without. He's a Breton Magicka temp and I was on a dunmer Magicka DK. Without impen his dark flare hit me for 15k (I can't remember if he was empowering them, but likely). I'd have to run Asayres' spreadsheet on the benefits of a magic damage passive, but I think it'd likely boost that quite a bit.

Nifty2g

SwaminoNowlino wrote: »

Slakk wrote: »

If I got hit by a 20k frag in pvp I don't think it would be the racials fault...

My buddy wanted to test his Magicka Templar's damage in PVP a few days ago. I got on a lowbie and we ran some tests using his dark flare with me wearing impen and without. He's a Breton Magicka temp and I was on a dunmer Magicka DK. Without impen his dark flare hit me for 15k (I can't remember if he was empowering them, but likely). I'd have to run Asayres' spreadsheet on the benefits of a magic damage passive, but I think it'd likely boost that quite a bit.

Excluding spell resistances, armor, etc
a 3% direct increase to a flat value of 15000 is 15450

Polysemy

SwaminoNowlino wrote: »

Slakk wrote: »

If I got hit by a 20k frag in pvp I don't think it would be the racials fault...

My buddy wanted to test his Magicka Templar's damage in PVP a few days ago. I got on a lowbie and we ran some tests using his dark flare with me wearing impen and without. He's a Breton Magicka temp and I was on a dunmer Magicka DK. Without impen his dark flare hit me for 15k (I can't remember if he was empowering them, but likely). I'd have to run Asayres' spreadsheet on the benefits of a magic damage passive, but I think it'd likely boost that quite a bit.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bfi1e_2xif4

Take your foot out of your mouth please, and promptly quit the game..

That was a month ago too...

Zinaroth

SwaminoNowlino wrote: »

@Gilliamtherogue I'm not sure what your basing that on but the best performers on console are all Magicka aside from the Stam DK, and Magicka is still largely winning out there. Stam Nightblades have some insane burst but I still expect a Magicka Templar can out DPS them over the long term. Not to mention the utility that Magicka builds tend to bring that Stam builds lack. There is more to balance than just damage output.

Plays console.
Talks about performance that can't be numerically measured because console.
Talks about burst, which is a useless term in PvE.
Pressumes to know stuff about current class/build balance in competetive raiding.

Thanks for the laugh.

I might not like Nifty and we sure had our run ins here on the forum but atleast he knows what he is talking about when it comes to magicka templars and he is certainly more knowledgeable than you. Same goes for Alcasat and William.

A magic damage passive would be a nice step in the right direction.