SwaminoNowlino wrote: »I don't know where you have gotten this information from...SwaminoNowlino wrote: »Max Magicka = increased Magic dps
Max spell power = increased magic dps
Max stamina = increased stamina dps
Max weapon damage = increased stamina dps
Max Magicka = 45kish +
Max spell power = 3000ish
Max stamina = 35k ish
Max weapon damage = 4k ish
1 k more weapon damage = 10 k more max Magicka (roughly).
In terms of balance, if you want 4K spell power then give Stam classes an extra 10k more max stamina (do you really want folks running around with 50k Stam? I don't think so). This is balance. The baseline DPS of each based on these stats are roughly equal.
Max stamina and max magicka increase overall damage from every source, not a specific type of damage
And I don't think you are understanding the bases of what I am asking for with this passive change... @hedna123b14_ESO I'll let you talk about this
You are incorrect. Physical damage scales off max stamina. Magic damage scales off max magicka. If I have 50k max Magicka my biting jabs will hit like a noodle, if I have 35k max stamina they will hit harder.
It's broken down quite nicely here. http://esoacademy.com/damage-in-eso/
SwaminoNowlino wrote: »I don't know where you have gotten this information from...SwaminoNowlino wrote: »Max Magicka = increased Magic dps
Max spell power = increased magic dps
Max stamina = increased stamina dps
Max weapon damage = increased stamina dps
Max Magicka = 45kish +
Max spell power = 3000ish
Max stamina = 35k ish
Max weapon damage = 4k ish
1 k more weapon damage = 10 k more max Magicka (roughly).
In terms of balance, if you want 4K spell power then give Stam classes an extra 10k more max stamina (do you really want folks running around with 50k Stam? I don't think so). This is balance. The baseline DPS of each based on these stats are roughly equal.
Max stamina and max magicka increase overall damage from every source, not a specific type of damage
And I don't think you are understanding the bases of what I am asking for with this passive change... @hedna123b14_ESO I'll let you talk about this
You are incorrect. Physical damage scales off max stamina. Magic damage scales off max magicka. If I have 50k max Magicka my biting jabs will hit like a noodle, if I have 35k max stamina they will hit harder.
It's broken down quite nicely here. http://esoacademy.com/damage-in-eso/
SwaminoNowlino wrote: »Gilliamtherogue wrote: »@Nifty2g just report this guy for derailing the thread to get it removed. Posting misinformation, and bears 0 relevance on racial passive balancing.
All those sweet Magicka sorc wrecking blows
http://esoacademy.com/damage-in-eso/
That information does not go in depth what so ever, different skills are more beneficial than others based on the coefficients, nothing of what is mentioned in that website. Anyway, I'll let @hedna123b14_ESO go in more depth about it if he wants toSwaminoNowlino wrote: »I don't know where you have gotten this information from...SwaminoNowlino wrote: »Max Magicka = increased Magic dps
Max spell power = increased magic dps
Max stamina = increased stamina dps
Max weapon damage = increased stamina dps
Max Magicka = 45kish +
Max spell power = 3000ish
Max stamina = 35k ish
Max weapon damage = 4k ish
1 k more weapon damage = 10 k more max Magicka (roughly).
In terms of balance, if you want 4K spell power then give Stam classes an extra 10k more max stamina (do you really want folks running around with 50k Stam? I don't think so). This is balance. The baseline DPS of each based on these stats are roughly equal.
Max stamina and max magicka increase overall damage from every source, not a specific type of damage
And I don't think you are understanding the bases of what I am asking for with this passive change... @hedna123b14_ESO I'll let you talk about this
You are incorrect. Physical damage scales off max stamina. Magic damage scales off max magicka. If I have 50k max Magicka my biting jabs will hit like a noodle, if I have 35k max stamina they will hit harder.
It's broken down quite nicely here. http://esoacademy.com/damage-in-eso/
DisgracefulMind wrote: »SwaminoNowlino wrote: »I don't know where you have gotten this information from...SwaminoNowlino wrote: »Max Magicka = increased Magic dps
Max spell power = increased magic dps
Max stamina = increased stamina dps
Max weapon damage = increased stamina dps
Max Magicka = 45kish +
Max spell power = 3000ish
Max stamina = 35k ish
Max weapon damage = 4k ish
1 k more weapon damage = 10 k more max Magicka (roughly).
In terms of balance, if you want 4K spell power then give Stam classes an extra 10k more max stamina (do you really want folks running around with 50k Stam? I don't think so). This is balance. The baseline DPS of each based on these stats are roughly equal.
Max stamina and max magicka increase overall damage from every source, not a specific type of damage
And I don't think you are understanding the bases of what I am asking for with this passive change... @hedna123b14_ESO I'll let you talk about this
You are incorrect. Physical damage scales off max stamina. Magic damage scales off max magicka. If I have 50k max Magicka my biting jabs will hit like a noodle, if I have 35k max stamina they will hit harder.
It's broken down quite nicely here. http://esoacademy.com/damage-in-eso/
I think you're misunderstanding what this thread is even asking for. Magic damage is a source of damage in ESO. Just like elemental damage.
It's not going to lead to screwed up balance, it's going to give more build and race diversity for Nightblades and Templars. Considering Magic Nightblade and Templar right now in terms of damage is severely under performing because of this reason.SwaminoNowlino wrote: »DisgracefulMind wrote: »SwaminoNowlino wrote: »I don't know where you have gotten this information from...SwaminoNowlino wrote: »Max Magicka = increased Magic dps
Max spell power = increased magic dps
Max stamina = increased stamina dps
Max weapon damage = increased stamina dps
Max Magicka = 45kish +
Max spell power = 3000ish
Max stamina = 35k ish
Max weapon damage = 4k ish
1 k more weapon damage = 10 k more max Magicka (roughly).
In terms of balance, if you want 4K spell power then give Stam classes an extra 10k more max stamina (do you really want folks running around with 50k Stam? I don't think so). This is balance. The baseline DPS of each based on these stats are roughly equal.
Max stamina and max magicka increase overall damage from every source, not a specific type of damage
And I don't think you are understanding the bases of what I am asking for with this passive change... @hedna123b14_ESO I'll let you talk about this
You are incorrect. Physical damage scales off max stamina. Magic damage scales off max magicka. If I have 50k max Magicka my biting jabs will hit like a noodle, if I have 35k max stamina they will hit harder.
It's broken down quite nicely here. http://esoacademy.com/damage-in-eso/
I think you're misunderstanding what this thread is even asking for. Magic damage is a source of damage in ESO. Just like elemental damage.
I'm not misunderstanding at all. I understand what is being asked for, and am pointing to why it is not necessary in my opinion. I am backing my opinion up with facts regarding how dps works in this game, citing ESO academy and have been reviewing material from Asayre to see if it disagrees with me anywhere.
I understand that base magic damage is not as high as elemental damage, which is boosted by passives, max Magicka, and elemental expert. I also know that Nifty is mainly a Templar and base magic damage passives would increase the damage of sweeps, radiant, and dark flare similar to how elemental damage boosts vampires bane.
Again, I understand exactly what I am talking about and am not derailing this thread, I am merely pointing to how a base magic passive would increase damage output of all Magicka builds beyond what is attainable by stamina builds.
Edit: the same argument can be made when looking at the stamina sides of things in that Nightblades can access disease damage and DKs can access poison. I'm not necessarily against a magic damage passive, I'm merely pointing to where it might throw off the balance. Especially since Magicka Templars are so damn strong this patch.
Information and opinions that counter yours are not misinformation. I get that you all would like base damage of magic abilities to go up, I am pointing to how the disparity in terms of max stats and damage multipliers COULD lead to screwed balance.
SwaminoNowlino wrote: »DisgracefulMind wrote: »SwaminoNowlino wrote: »I don't know where you have gotten this information from...SwaminoNowlino wrote: »Max Magicka = increased Magic dps
Max spell power = increased magic dps
Max stamina = increased stamina dps
Max weapon damage = increased stamina dps
Max Magicka = 45kish +
Max spell power = 3000ish
Max stamina = 35k ish
Max weapon damage = 4k ish
1 k more weapon damage = 10 k more max Magicka (roughly).
In terms of balance, if you want 4K spell power then give Stam classes an extra 10k more max stamina (do you really want folks running around with 50k Stam? I don't think so). This is balance. The baseline DPS of each based on these stats are roughly equal.
Max stamina and max magicka increase overall damage from every source, not a specific type of damage
And I don't think you are understanding the bases of what I am asking for with this passive change... @hedna123b14_ESO I'll let you talk about this
You are incorrect. Physical damage scales off max stamina. Magic damage scales off max magicka. If I have 50k max Magicka my biting jabs will hit like a noodle, if I have 35k max stamina they will hit harder.
It's broken down quite nicely here. http://esoacademy.com/damage-in-eso/
I think you're misunderstanding what this thread is even asking for. Magic damage is a source of damage in ESO. Just like elemental damage.
I'm not misunderstanding at all. I understand what is being asked for, and am pointing to why it is not necessary in my opinion. I am backing my opinion up with facts regarding how dps works in this game, citing ESO academy and have been reviewing material from Asayre to see if it disagrees with me anywhere.
I understand that base magic damage is not as high as elemental damage, which is boosted by passives, max Magicka, and elemental expert. I also know that Nifty is mainly a Templar and base magic damage passives would increase the damage of sweeps, radiant, and dark flare similar to how elemental damage boosts vampires bane.
Again, I understand exactly what I am talking about and am not derailing this thread, I am merely pointing to how a base magic passive would increase damage output of all Magicka builds beyond what is attainable by stamina builds.
Edit: the same argument can be made when looking at the stamina sides of things in that Nightblades can access disease damage and DKs can access poison. I'm not necessarily against a magic damage passive, I'm merely pointing to where it might throw off the balance. Especially since Magicka Templars are so damn strong this patch.
Information and opinions that counter yours are not misinformation. I get that you all would like base damage of magic abilities to go up, I am pointing to how the disparity in terms of max stats and damage multipliers COULD lead to screwed balance.
Yes Templar damage is underperforming right now due to everything I have said in here. It's probably the weakest to DPS in PvE right now compared to the others because balance is being broken.SwaminoNowlino wrote: »@Nifty2g I am sorry but Templar damage underperforming? In comparison to what? In terms of Magicka dps they are second on a baseline to DK, discounting sorc overload. DK still reigns King in terms of PVE dps, but I really do believe Templars are the single most balanced class from both a Magicka and Stam perspective. High damage output with great group utility, self heals and mitigation. Not to mention radiant (every thread given enough time turns into a nerf radiant thread ). Nightblade is in a weird spot since the nerf to funnel health, but it's weird to put your finger on just what they need. Their damage could be a bit higher but with their sustain it could get out of hand.
Yes Templar damage is underperforming right now due to everything I have said in here. It's probably the weakest to DPS in PvE right now compared to the others because balance is being broken.SwaminoNowlino wrote: »@Nifty2g I am sorry but Templar damage underperforming? In comparison to what? In terms of Magicka dps they are second on a baseline to DK, discounting sorc overload. DK still reigns King in terms of PVE dps, but I really do believe Templars are the single most balanced class from both a Magicka and Stam perspective. High damage output with great group utility, self heals and mitigation. Not to mention radiant (every thread given enough time turns into a nerf radiant thread ). Nightblade is in a weird spot since the nerf to funnel health, but it's weird to put your finger on just what they need. Their damage could be a bit higher but with their sustain it could get out of hand.
This affects both Templars and Nightblades and opens up build diversity with race diversity instead of pigeonholing every race into High Elf, in this case it is now Dunmer.SwaminoNowlino wrote: »Yes Templar damage is underperforming right now due to everything I have said in here. It's probably the weakest to DPS in PvE right now compared to the others because balance is being broken.SwaminoNowlino wrote: »@Nifty2g I am sorry but Templar damage underperforming? In comparison to what? In terms of Magicka dps they are second on a baseline to DK, discounting sorc overload. DK still reigns King in terms of PVE dps, but I really do believe Templars are the single most balanced class from both a Magicka and Stam perspective. High damage output with great group utility, self heals and mitigation. Not to mention radiant (every thread given enough time turns into a nerf radiant thread ). Nightblade is in a weird spot since the nerf to funnel health, but it's weird to put your finger on just what they need. Their damage could be a bit higher but with their sustain it could get out of hand.
I mean we will have to agree to disagree there if that's where you're coming from. I know you're all about the Templar and I don't fault you for going to bat for it, but that's just not something you'll ever convince me to buy based on what I am experiencing in game. Dark flares can hit in PVP for almost 16k... And again, there is much more to balance than DPS. Magicka DK dominates PVE but sucks in PVP. Templars are the only balanced class across the board in this whole game, in my opinion. They're not the best at any single thing but they're far from the bottom regardless of what you do.
SwaminoNowlino wrote: »@Gilliamtherogue I'm not sure what your basing that on but the best performers on console are all Magicka aside from the Stam DK, and Magicka is still largely winning out there. Stam Nightblades have some insane burst but I still expect a Magicka Templar can out DPS them over the long term. Not to mention the utility that Magicka builds tend to bring that Stam builds lack. There is more to balance than just damage output.
Gilliamtherogue wrote: »SwaminoNowlino wrote: »@Gilliamtherogue I'm not sure what your basing that on but the best performers on console are all Magicka aside from the Stam DK, and Magicka is still largely winning out there. Stam Nightblades have some insane burst but I still expect a Magicka Templar can out DPS them over the long term. Not to mention the utility that Magicka builds tend to bring that Stam builds lack. There is more to balance than just damage output.
... All of my rage has been washed away by the sheer ignorance of this comment. Thank you. I will no longer argue with you since I see you are unfamiliar with what is happening in competitive PvE at the moment, thus unable to form accurate and meaningful context.
I am choosing a racial passive because it fits in with lore. Kind of the downside you have when you are looking to balance things with loreSwaminoNowlino wrote: »Edit: Now this is derailing the thread! I understand why you want the passive but I certainly don't think it needs to be race based. Class based would be a better argument. And maybe I am wrong, but would a magic damage passive not increase elemental damage also? I guess it wouldn't because it's not spell damage. But I can say for sure that crystal frags don't need to hit any harder.
I am choosing a racial passive because it fits in with lore. Kind of the downside you have when you are looking to balance things with loreSwaminoNowlino wrote: »Edit: Now this is derailing the thread! I understand why you want the passive but I certainly don't think it needs to be race based. Class based would be a better argument. And maybe I am wrong, but would a magic damage passive not increase elemental damage also? I guess it wouldn't because it's not spell damage. But I can say for sure that crystal frags don't need to hit any harder.
I agree with this 100%.
I'm so sorry that all it takes is one person to stain such a good suggestion.
This sounds like you don't want balance for your own benefit, kind of contradicting this whole argument? i agree with what Slakk has said. Seems like a good idea has been stained and probably turned ZOS away. Mind stop derailing it?SwaminoNowlino wrote: »I am choosing a racial passive because it fits in with lore. Kind of the downside you have when you are looking to balance things with loreSwaminoNowlino wrote: »Edit: Now this is derailing the thread! I understand why you want the passive but I certainly don't think it needs to be race based. Class based would be a better argument. And maybe I am wrong, but would a magic damage passive not increase elemental damage also? I guess it wouldn't because it's not spell damage. But I can say for sure that crystal frags don't need to hit any harder.
Agreed there. Makes it hard to ever achieve the balance folks want when you're confined by largely single player lore.
I do enjoy everyone's rage. Sorry not everyone wants to agree with 100% of everything. I just don't want to get hit with a 20k crystal frag. That would suck.
Toc de Malsvi wrote: »There will never be a fair and accurate assessment of output without having something like WorldofLogs to compare over a broad spectrum. Given a player base as small as 500,000 you will likely only group with less than 1% of that player base thus the best comparison you could give is to compare individual numbers on players you know personally. Even then you would only get PC numbers as the Xbox/PS4 is not set up for recording that type of info. I mean you could record 5min clips and take the time to pull out the numbers from the on instantaneous damage reporting but who has the time to do that.
This sounds like you don't want balance for your own benefit, kind of contradicting this whole argument? i agree with what Slakk has said. Seems like a good idea has been stained and probably turned ZOS away. Mind stop derailing it?SwaminoNowlino wrote: »I am choosing a racial passive because it fits in with lore. Kind of the downside you have when you are looking to balance things with loreSwaminoNowlino wrote: »Edit: Now this is derailing the thread! I understand why you want the passive but I certainly don't think it needs to be race based. Class based would be a better argument. And maybe I am wrong, but would a magic damage passive not increase elemental damage also? I guess it wouldn't because it's not spell damage. But I can say for sure that crystal frags don't need to hit any harder.
Agreed there. Makes it hard to ever achieve the balance folks want when you're confined by largely single player lore.
I do enjoy everyone's rage. Sorry not everyone wants to agree with 100% of everything. I just don't want to get hit with a 20k crystal frag. That would suck.
If I got hit by a 20k frag in pvp I don't think it would be the racials fault...
Excluding spell resistances, armor, etcSwaminoNowlino wrote: »If I got hit by a 20k frag in pvp I don't think it would be the racials fault...
My buddy wanted to test his Magicka Templar's damage in PVP a few days ago. I got on a lowbie and we ran some tests using his dark flare with me wearing impen and without. He's a Breton Magicka temp and I was on a dunmer Magicka DK. Without impen his dark flare hit me for 15k (I can't remember if he was empowering them, but likely). I'd have to run Asayres' spreadsheet on the benefits of a magic damage passive, but I think it'd likely boost that quite a bit.
SwaminoNowlino wrote: »If I got hit by a 20k frag in pvp I don't think it would be the racials fault...
My buddy wanted to test his Magicka Templar's damage in PVP a few days ago. I got on a lowbie and we ran some tests using his dark flare with me wearing impen and without. He's a Breton Magicka temp and I was on a dunmer Magicka DK. Without impen his dark flare hit me for 15k (I can't remember if he was empowering them, but likely). I'd have to run Asayres' spreadsheet on the benefits of a magic damage passive, but I think it'd likely boost that quite a bit.
SwaminoNowlino wrote: »@Gilliamtherogue I'm not sure what your basing that on but the best performers on console are all Magicka aside from the Stam DK, and Magicka is still largely winning out there. Stam Nightblades have some insane burst but I still expect a Magicka Templar can out DPS them over the long term. Not to mention the utility that Magicka builds tend to bring that Stam builds lack. There is more to balance than just damage output.