Let's talk about why there is no Magic Damage increase passive

susmitds

@Wrobel ...

L2Pissue

add magic damage passive? ok
add magic damage passive to altmer and/or replace current elemental damages with magic? NO
that will make many sets which may rely on elemental damage more useless
that will make sorcerer passives weaker
i wouldnt mind it being added to breton
remember, you dont play ESO solo.
there are plenty of people who likes builds outside of the meta
altmer is fine as it is.
enjoy

Nifty2g

L2Pissue wrote: »

add magic damage passive? ok
add magic damage passive to altmer and/or replace current elemental damages with magic? NO
that will make many sets which may rely on elemental damage more useless
that will make sorcerer passives weaker
i wouldnt mind it being added to breton
remember, you dont play ESO solo.
there are plenty of people who likes builds outside of the meta
altmer is fine as it is.
enjoy

I didn't say replace

Tanis-Stormbinder

At this point I would like magic damaged to be added to the Templar skill line passives if not to Altmer or Breton.

EgoRush

The Breton passive of spell resistance is pretty weak and made less effective by the Champion System, whereas CP complement High Elf magicka recovery, for example, due to the percentage increase compared to a flat increase. Therefore, I think Breton are in need of more love than Altmer and should be given a magic damage bonus with the spell resistance passive. Alternatively, they could just make Balanced Warrior give spell damage as well as weapon damage.

Definitely agree that a racial passive for bonus magic damage is suitable for the game - there are many class skills that deal magic damage. If it happens, I'll next campaign for a neutral destruction staff that does magic damage instead of elemental damage OP magicka Templar staff build incoming with that.

Excellent idea, however implemented though. If it goes to Altmer over Breton then I'd simply do the race change.

Ragnaroek93

Buff Altmers? Are you crazy? Really, I thought you are trolling after reading the topic...
The race is already strong enough and Magplar is strong enough too without extra dmg from an overpowered race.

Can't believe why people upvote this, this would make balance even worse. And don't come with "BUT THE LORE SAYS ALTMER SHOULD HAVE STRONGER SPELLS", because Altmers, Dunmer and Bretons ALREADY have more magic dmg thanks to the max magicka passives.

I have a Altmer Magplar by myself and there is exactly no reason to buff it.

Nifty2g

Ragnaroek93 wrote: »

Buff Altmers? Are you crazy? Really, I thought you are trolling after reading the topic...
The race is already strong enough and Magplar is strong enough too without extra dmg from an overpowered race.

Can't believe why people upvote this, this would make balance even worse. And don't come with "BUT THE LORE SAYS ALTMER SHOULD HAVE STRONGER SPELLS", because Altmers, Dunmer and Bretons ALREADY have more magic dmg thanks to the max magicka passives.

I have a Altmer Magplar by myself and there is exactly no reason to buff it.

We have gone through this discussion... max magic increases all damage as does max stamina.

Ragnaroek93

Nifty2g wrote: »

Ragnaroek93 wrote: »

Buff Altmers? Are you crazy? Really, I thought you are trolling after reading the topic...
The race is already strong enough and Magplar is strong enough too without extra dmg from an overpowered race.

Can't believe why people upvote this, this would make balance even worse. And don't come with "BUT THE LORE SAYS ALTMER SHOULD HAVE STRONGER SPELLS", because Altmers, Dunmer and Bretons ALREADY have more magic dmg thanks to the max magicka passives.

I have a Altmer Magplar by myself and there is exactly no reason to buff it.

We have gone through this discussion... max magic increases all damage as does max stamina.

And now? Why is this a reason to buff Altmer even more? There are people who play a stamina based race as Magplar for example, why do you want to have even more advantage over them? Is 10% regen and 10% magicka not already strong enough? Do you really want to make balance even worse?
10% regen, 10% magicka, 4% more elemental dmg and 5% more magicka dmg on top of that. Come on, this is not like balance looks like...

This would be the same if I ask for more physical dmg on my Woodelf (oh wait, it is not the same, because Woodelfs aren't even a top tier race right now).
But yes, if I look at the buffs to Khajiit your chances are pretty good to get your Altmer buff

Nifty2g

Ragnaroek93 wrote: »

Nifty2g wrote: »

Ragnaroek93 wrote: »

Buff Altmers? Are you crazy? Really, I thought you are trolling after reading the topic...
The race is already strong enough and Magplar is strong enough too without extra dmg from an overpowered race.

Can't believe why people upvote this, this would make balance even worse. And don't come with "BUT THE LORE SAYS ALTMER SHOULD HAVE STRONGER SPELLS", because Altmers, Dunmer and Bretons ALREADY have more magic dmg thanks to the max magicka passives.

I have a Altmer Magplar by myself and there is exactly no reason to buff it.

We have gone through this discussion... max magic increases all damage as does max stamina.

And now? Why is this a reason to buff Altmer even more? There are people who play a stamina based race as Magplar for example, why do you want to have even more advantage over them? Is 10% regen and 10% magicka not already strong enough? Do you really want to make balance even worse?
10% regen, 10% magicka, 4% more elemental dmg and 5% more magicka dmg on top of that. Come on, this is not like balance looks like...

This would be the same if I ask for more physical dmg on my Woodelf (oh wait, it is not the same, because Woodelfs aren't even a top tier race right now).
But yes, if I look at the buffs to Khajiit your chances are pretty good to get your Altmer buff

If you could actually read the original post, I suggest both Altmer and Breton, I do not care which get it, but it needs to be in the game.
Stop pulling random numbers, I'm asking for 3% and to bring fire, ice and lightning to 3% damage too (if Altmer gets the change).
Did you just skip over this?

Mumyo

Why do people allways want mirrors and everything to be the same, u don't know what you wish for.
Is there any issues in terms of content when u don't have 3% more spell dmg?
It's not easy to not sepperate pvp from pve entirely but i don'T see any issues in not having 3% more spell dmg.

MichYodias

Nifty2g wrote: »

Alcast wrote: »

Nifty2g wrote: »

How come this is still not added into the game? I was for sure with this racial rebalance we would be seeing a passive to Altmer or Breton to increase Magic Damage by 3-5%, for the classes of Nightblades and Templars are becoming weaker and weaker due to the fact they just can't keep up with Fire, Frost and Shock Damage bonuses.

From a balance point of view I see no reason why this isn't in the game at the moment. It's still very early into the PTS, I'm hoping it can be made into Live, especially with the recent change to Dunmer including all the Elemental Damage in the world but leaving Altmer or Breton without Magic Damage.
@ZOS_JessicaFolsom @Wrobel

They could give it to altmer, like only a 3% dmg increase or smth like that. Didnt get a single buff compared to darkelf.

I agree to give it to Altmer, wouldn't really make sense for a Breton since they are made for healing/sustain and some defense

This is why spell crit would be good for a Breton. It'll help healing and dps without breaking lore with the word damage. Bretons are outclassed in both roles by other races. I mean i would even say Breton is the 3rd choice for healing behind Argonian and Altmer (3% red < 9% regen , spell resist is not going to sway me). Breton needs love one way or another so people at least need to consider the race when making a new character or race changing.

Nifty2g

MichYodias wrote: »

Nifty2g wrote: »

Alcast wrote: »

Nifty2g wrote: »

How come this is still not added into the game? I was for sure with this racial rebalance we would be seeing a passive to Altmer or Breton to increase Magic Damage by 3-5%, for the classes of Nightblades and Templars are becoming weaker and weaker due to the fact they just can't keep up with Fire, Frost and Shock Damage bonuses.

From a balance point of view I see no reason why this isn't in the game at the moment. It's still very early into the PTS, I'm hoping it can be made into Live, especially with the recent change to Dunmer including all the Elemental Damage in the world but leaving Altmer or Breton without Magic Damage.
@ZOS_JessicaFolsom @Wrobel

They could give it to altmer, like only a 3% dmg increase or smth like that. Didnt get a single buff compared to darkelf.

I agree to give it to Altmer, wouldn't really make sense for a Breton since they are made for healing/sustain and some defense

This is why spell crit would be good for a Breton. It'll help healing and dps without breaking lore with the word damage. Bretons are outclassed in both roles by other races. I mean i would even say Breton is the 3rd choice for healing behind Argonian and Altmer (3% red < 9% regen , spell resist is not going to sway me). Breton needs love one way or another so people at least need to consider the race when making a new character or race changing.

Spell crit is nice

Dymence

Ragnaroek93 wrote: »

Nifty2g wrote: »

Ragnaroek93 wrote: »

Buff Altmers? Are you crazy? Really, I thought you are trolling after reading the topic...
The race is already strong enough and Magplar is strong enough too without extra dmg from an overpowered race.

Can't believe why people upvote this, this would make balance even worse. And don't come with "BUT THE LORE SAYS ALTMER SHOULD HAVE STRONGER SPELLS", because Altmers, Dunmer and Bretons ALREADY have more magic dmg thanks to the max magicka passives.

I have a Altmer Magplar by myself and there is exactly no reason to buff it.

We have gone through this discussion... max magic increases all damage as does max stamina.

And now? Why is this a reason to buff Altmer even more? There are people who play a stamina based race as Magplar for example, why do you want to have even more advantage over them? Is 10% regen and 10% magicka not already strong enough? Do you really want to make balance even worse?
10% regen, 10% magicka, 4% more elemental dmg and 5% more magicka dmg on top of that. Come on, this is not like balance looks like...

This would be the same if I ask for more physical dmg on my Woodelf (oh wait, it is not the same, because Woodelfs aren't even a top tier race right now).
But yes, if I look at the buffs to Khajiit your chances are pretty good to get your Altmer buff

Mumyo wrote: »

Why do people allways want mirrors and everything to be the same, u don't know what you wish for.
Is there any issues in terms of content when u don't have 3% more spell dmg?
It's not easy to not sepperate pvp from pve entirely but i don'T see any issues in not having 3% more spell dmg.

I like how so many people in this thread don't know the difference between spell damage and magic damage, even though the difference has been explained numerous times in the thread.

Spell damage increases the damage of all spells that cost magicka.

Magic damage is a type of damage like fire, ice and lightning. It only increases the damage of skills that deal MAGIC damage, not every skill that costs MAGICKA.

Xael

@Nifty2g
I couldn't care less about lore, even the so-called Loremaster himself says he makes things up on the fly, moreover look at all the lorebreaking changes that have transpired.

Let's just use some simple common sense and focus on ESO being ESO, not a typical TES game, as it's not.
Altmer already have +4% to Elemental Damage.
Dunmer have + 7% Fire and 2 to cold and shock.
Breton another magicka race, have nothing. If anyone should get this change, it should be Breton making them more desirable. Altmer and Dunmer are already "go to" races for most things magicka.

STEVIL

Nifty2g wrote: »

Yes Templar damage is underperforming right now due to everything I have said in here. It's probably the weakest to DPS in PvE right now compared to the others because balance is being broken.

A couple things...

First, While diversity has been mentiioned as a goal here as well as balance, trying to fix an underperforming class with a racial passive is the opposite of diversity. it would, all things taken at face value, lock in the racial class pairing.

Second: My experience with templars is not that they necessarily underperform with damage but certainly they can do so. Question is do they choose to use the more damage prone offenses or the more health prone offenses like jabs/stabs massive heal while putting out good damage. They usually cant get both massive constant healing AND top level DPS at the same instant.

But a lot depends on choices.

However, I generally fall against arguments which start by subdividing, isolating, and then compaing certain key elements as opposed to those looking at overall broader packages. More often than not the more you focus in on a smalller and smaller part of the picture the more you miss.

Net result, IF this was to be explored fuirther, it should IMO be done so in a bigger scope than a racial passive in order to avoid locking in race-class combos.

James-Wayne

If any race gets a magic damage increase by 2/4/6% it should be Breton as they have Magicka Mastery passives which says it all, Bretons are the masters of magic which is lore friendly!

Magicka Mastery

cosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO

Eh, templars and NB's are fine, they don't need any buffs. Just L2P or whatever if you think templars and NB's need a buff like you tell sorcs.

Elyu

Alcast wrote: »

Nifty2g wrote: »

How come this is still not added into the game? I was for sure with this racial rebalance we would be seeing a passive to Altmer or Breton to increase Magic Damage by 3-5%, for the classes of Nightblades and Templars are becoming weaker and weaker due to the fact they just can't keep up with Fire, Frost and Shock Damage bonuses.

From a balance point of view I see no reason why this isn't in the game at the moment. It's still very early into the PTS, I'm hoping it can be made into Live, especially with the recent change to Dunmer including all the Elemental Damage in the world but leaving Altmer or Breton without Magic Damage.
@ZOS_JessicaFolsom @Wrobel

They could give it to altmer, like only a 3% dmg increase or smth like that. Didnt get a single buff compared to darkelf.

Personally I'd stick to: Dunmer have increased fire dmg, altmer have increased shock dmg, Breton have increased magic dmg. And no race gives increased frost dmg, or give it to all 3 'magicka DD' races.

Junkogen

Why give more damage to already strong races? Breton and especially Altmer have been top choices since forever. How is it balanced to give them even more? This seems like a wanton power grab. I'm for giving out a magicka damage boost, but then the race that gets either has to be Argonian (since they are the weakest magicka race) or loose something to make up for the gain.

Nifty2g

Any word if this is possible @Wrobel ?

Destruent

Junkogen wrote: »

Why give more damage to already strong races? Breton and especially Altmer have been top choices since forever. How is it balanced to give them even more? This seems like a wanton power grab. I'm for giving out a magicka damage boost, but then the race that gets either has to be Argonian (since they are the weakest magicka race) or loose something to make up for the gain.

Argonians are good for healing on PTS whereas bretons are good for nearly nothing (maybe for magicka-tanks, but nothing beats a stam-DK-tank). Would be nice to give a small magick-dmg-increase to bretons.

Khaos_Bane

L2Pissue wrote: »

add magic damage passive? ok
add magic damage passive to altmer and/or replace current elemental damages with magic? NO
that will make many sets which may rely on elemental damage more useless
that will make sorcerer passives weaker
i wouldnt mind it being added to breton
remember, you dont play ESO solo.
there are plenty of people who likes builds outside of the meta
altmer is fine as it is.
enjoy

Heh. Change your forum name to L2Read

khele23eb17_ESO

Nifty2g wrote: »

Is it possible to know if this feedback is able to be passed along for consideration in changes @ZOS_JessicaFolsom

Passed along and ignored :P

Akimbro

I agree that a magic damage passive has been missing. So has poison/disease damage and physical damage, especially after the DB changes to certain stamina morphs of skills. However, from a Lore standpoint, are Altmers not masters of ALL spell trades? Not specifically just magic damage, but everything including elemental, illusion, alteration, and so forth. I think it would make more sense to give Altmers like 5% spell crit instead. Nothing too high though like the Khajiit 8% since Altmers have high max magicka and recovery already. This would provide a viable race to DD's who use magic damage skills, without saying that Altmers were only good with magic and not all spell trades.

Also to piggyback off of this, the Elemental Talent passive should then be given to Dunmers because Dunmers were masters of Destruction magic, not specifically fire damage. I may make a thread with my suggestions for racial passives that better fit the lore and rebalance the races.

Nifty2g

Akimbro wrote: »

I agree that a magic damage passive has been missing. So has poison/disease damage and physical damage, especially after the DB changes to certain stamina morphs of skills. However, from a Lore standpoint, are Altmers not masters of ALL spell trades? Not specifically just magic damage, but everything including elemental, illusion, alteration, and so forth. I think it would make more sense to give Altmers like 5% spell crit instead. Nothing too high though like the Khajiit 8% since Altmers have high max magicka and recovery already. This would provide a viable race to DD's who use magic damage skills, without saying that Altmers were only good with magic and not all spell trades.

Also to piggyback off of this, the Elemental Talent passive should then be given to Dunmers because Dunmers were masters of Destruction magic, not specifically fire damage. I may make a thread with my suggestions for racial passives that better fit the lore and rebalance the races.

poison, disease and physical damage are in class passives/race passives already

Toc de Malsvi

Nifty2g wrote: »

poison, disease and physical damage are in class passives/race passives already

It helps to remain candid when discussing balancing issues. This is an out right lie or attempt at deception, there are racial passives that bonus damage from stealth and there are racial passives that bonus charge attack, there is no racial passives that bonus: poison, disease, or physical damage as identifiers themselves.

Passive increases to Fire, Frost, and Shock do not rely upon modifiers of "are you attacking from stealth?" or "is this a gap closing ability?" they are static increases to those types of damage.

Akimbro

Nifty2g wrote: »

Akimbro wrote: »

I agree that a magic damage passive has been missing. So has poison/disease damage and physical damage, especially after the DB changes to certain stamina morphs of skills. However, from a Lore standpoint, are Altmers not masters of ALL spell trades? Not specifically just magic damage, but everything including elemental, illusion, alteration, and so forth. I think it would make more sense to give Altmers like 5% spell crit instead. Nothing too high though like the Khajiit 8% since Altmers have high max magicka and recovery already. This would provide a viable race to DD's who use magic damage skills, without saying that Altmers were only good with magic and not all spell trades.

Also to piggyback off of this, the Elemental Talent passive should then be given to Dunmers because Dunmers were masters of Destruction magic, not specifically fire damage. I may make a thread with my suggestions for racial passives that better fit the lore and rebalance the races.

poison, disease and physical damage are in class passives/race passives already

They're not in racial passives, only indirectly buffed by weapon crit and max stamina. But the same could be said that magic damage is "already in" with max magicka and crit from class passives. And yes, I know poison damage etc. are in class passives already but I thought this was a discussion purely on racial passives. But with that, I agree class passives are also lacking magic damage bonuses, but I think it's been overlooked by the passives for crit and damage. Either way, there is a lack of specifically magic damage bonuses in general. I personally don't think magic damage should go to Bretons though since they're strengths are magic/spell mitigation, rather than output.

Minalan

Buff the 3% Magicka cost decrease to 5 or 6%

Problem solved!

I'd rather cast more spells than have damage any day, dark brotherhood PVP is all about sustain, sustain, and then more sustain.

Nifty2g

Toc de Malsvi wrote: »

Nifty2g wrote: »

poison, disease and physical damage are in class passives/race passives already

It helps to remain candid when discussing balancing issues. This is an out right lie or attempt at deception, there are racial passives that bonus damage from stealth and there are racial passives that bonus charge attack, there is no racial passives that bonus: poison, disease, or physical damage as identifiers themselves.

Passive increases to Fire, Frost, and Shock do not rely upon modifiers of "are you attacking from stealth?" or "is this a gap closing ability?" they are static increases to those types of damage.

It's not an out right lie, there are passives to increase poison, disease and physical damage, they are in class passives. But there is 0 ways to increase magic damage. I've said it several times. That's why I said "racial passives/passives."

Nifty2g

Minalan wrote: »

Buff the 3% Magicka cost decrease to 5 or 6%

Problem solved!

I'd rather cast more spells than have damage any day, dark brotherhood PVP is all about sustain, sustain, and then more sustain.

That doesn't solve anything, because cost reduction gets hit pretty hard with diminishing returns, regeneration does not