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Let's talk about why there is no Magic Damage increase passive
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ADarklore✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭At least Magicka gets buffed in the sense that you get bonus's to flame/frost/shock damage. Ranged physical damage gets literally nothing, and doesn't even get acknowledged as a problem.
I believe Eric has stated before that Bow range attacks should not be on par with melee attacks because one offers high risk while the other keeps a personal relatively out of harm's way. So if you want safety, then you do less damage... if you want to risk melee combat, then you gain higher damage. As far as staff bonus, Stamina builds have much more diversity with weapon choices, whereas Magicka only has Destro staff... so with lack of options, perhaps he feels staff deserves higher damage potential.Edited by ADarklore on July 9, 2016 3:43AMCP: 2078 ** ESO+ 2025 Content Pass ** ~~ ***** Strictly a solo PvE quester *****
~~Started Playing: May 2015 | Stopped Playing: July 2025~~0 -
Vythri✭✭✭✭At least Magicka gets buffed in the sense that you get bonus's to flame/frost/shock damage. Ranged physical damage gets literally nothing, and doesn't even get acknowledged as a problem.
I believe Eric has stated before that Bow range attacks should not be on par with melee attacks because one offers high risk while the other keeps a personal relatively out of harm's way. So if you want safety, then you do less damage... if you want to risk melee combat, then you gain higher damage. As far as staff bonus, Stamina builds have much more diversity with weapon choices, whereas Magicka only has Destro staff... so with lack of options, perhaps he feels staff deserves higher damage potential.
Except you can spam gap closers over and over again from range. So thats a *** excuse. Also melee is inherently stronger than ranged physical as it is, and yet they still get racial passives to further that.Edited by Vythri on July 9, 2016 4:20AM1 -
Reykice✭✭✭✭✭I agree lame they did not use this to give altmers 2% like they gave dunmers 2% cold and lightning.
Maybe if we keep asking... even on breton its ok but not 2% maybe 4% magic like altmer has fire and frost.Edited by Reykice on July 9, 2016 9:53AM0 -
glavius✭✭✭✭✭At least Magicka gets buffed in the sense that you get bonus's to flame/frost/shock damage. Ranged physical damage gets literally nothing, and doesn't even get acknowledged as a problem.
I believe Eric has stated before that Bow range attacks should not be on par with melee attacks because one offers high risk while the other keeps a personal relatively out of harm's way. So if you want safety, then you do less damage... if you want to risk melee combat, then you gain higher damage. As far as staff bonus, Stamina builds have much more diversity with weapon choices, whereas Magicka only has Destro staff... so with lack of options, perhaps he feels staff deserves higher damage potential.
Except you can spam gap closers over and over again from range. So thats a *** excuse. Also melee is inherently stronger than ranged physical as it is, and yet they still get racial passives to further that.
Well theres only one race with physical dmg, so i can't see the problem0 -
Reykice✭✭✭✭✭At least Magicka gets buffed in the sense that you get bonus's to flame/frost/shock damage. Ranged physical damage gets literally nothing, and doesn't even get acknowledged as a problem.
I believe Eric has stated before that Bow range attacks should not be on par with melee attacks because one offers high risk while the other keeps a personal relatively out of harm's way. So if you want safety, then you do less damage... if you want to risk melee combat, then you gain higher damage. As far as staff bonus, Stamina builds have much more diversity with weapon choices, whereas Magicka only has Destro staff... so with lack of options, perhaps he feels staff deserves higher damage potential.
Except you can spam gap closers over and over again from range. So thats a *** excuse. Also melee is inherently stronger than ranged physical as it is, and yet they still get racial passives to further that.
Well theres only one race with physical dmg, so i can't see the problem
Khajit is 4% to 6% or more damage, redguard is unlimited stamina regen...plus orc with just damage. There is no magicka race with flat out damage or magic damage.1 -
Nifty2g✭✭✭✭✭
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@Wrobel
Since I don't have PTS, I went and gave it a try to see if max magic vs healing done. Results were interesting I suppose
So you're saying in this instance a Breton will hit harder spells than an Argonian
then what is 9% healing given? Healing spells hit for way more than enough now. 9% healing given is downright worthless.
Lol what... Argonians are the best healers now, that healing done is a flat percentage. The max magicka is a percentage based off of your current. You get more from the Argonian passive in terms of healingand yes, i want to give them more because as it stands as i have said countless times, there is no ways to increase magic damage
@wrobel could we please get a word in here
What about your 10% max magicka boost and elemental CP star boost of another 25%? Sounds like you can boost it enough right there. Also, you're a magicka Templar? You're just being greedy. You need dark flare to instakill or something?
That's still 7% less compared to flame damage and 4% less compared to frost and shock damage. This would be a great way to make bretons a viable dps-race. Because atm it's just good for nothing
Then why not make every race a viable DPS race? Your argument is baseless. Bretons put out plenty damage with 10% max magicka.
I just completely disagree with the entire premise of this thread. Again, other races have much more valid complaints. You guys are like the billionaire class asking for more tax relief.
I know there are other races who can complain (mainly nords, maybe bosmer), but most races are best in one roll. Bretons in it's current state are outclassed by dunmer/altmer for dps and argonians for healing.
How are Bretons outclassed by Argonians for healing? You have 10% max magicka. That's way better than 9% healing given. Your argument is baseless. Bretons have magicka resistance and cost reduction. Now you want more damage? They're buffing other races to get to the Altmer/Breton level. You seem to not understand why other races are getting buffs. Buffing Altmer/Breton defeats the purpose.
Spell resistance is nice but meh, you can hit cap fairly easy as a templar.
Cost reduction compared to the amount of sustain argonians just got handed? yea... cost reduction is fairly crap at end game level
Bretons I'm going to say right now are one of the weakest classes, along side nord. What is your argument, why are you just disagreeing? I don't think you understand what it is I am asking for... Magic Damage will benefit a lot of players and playstyles, not just templars
So 3% max magicka for argonian, and 9% healing done.and 12% of your max resources etc (incredible sustain)Amphibious: This passive ability has been renamed to “Resourceful.” Also, it no longer increases your swimming speed by 50%. It now increases your Max Magicka by 1/2/3%, and continues to restore 4/8/12% of your Max Health, Magicka, and Stamina whenever you drink a potion.
Quick to Mend: This passive ability now increases your healing done by 3/6/9%, instead of increasing your healing received by 3/6/9%.
Bretons, 3% cost reduction (really bad)
10% max magicka
so the comparison is, 7% max magicka vs 9% healing done. I don't think I need to explain which is obviously better
I know. I would take the 7% max magicka versus the healing done any day of the week. In fact I would give the healing done for pretty much any other passive. That's how worthless it is for the aforementioned reason.
No Altmer Passive (7% max magic for 2 points allocated)
Trait: Powered (6% Healing Done for purple quality)
Spell: Rushed Ceremony
Non Critical: 5223
Critical: 7834
Yes Altmer Passive (7% max magic for 2 points allocated)
Trait: Precise (No Healing Done)
Spell: Rushed Ceremony
Non Critical: 5114
Critical: 7716
HUH, well I'll be dammed, it seems even with 1% less, healing done does more than max magic. So now I'll ask you again, do you prefer 7% max magic or 9% healing done.
The recent change to Argonian has now made it weaker than Bretons and Altmers in terms of healing.
In my opinion I think that was an unjustified change and there really is no need to roll an Argonian.#MOREORBS1 -
Tremors✭✭✭SwaminoNowlino wrote: »Because you can stack max Magicka much higher then max stamina, thus it's a wash. If you could hit the high 40k/50k on stamina then I'd agree. But it's balanced this way.
Agree with this. I also feel that the resistance for a Breton could just be overall resistance, such as guard physical and spell resistance by 3k. Upon dealing elemental or magic damage, return 900 magicka every 5 seconds. I may just be a little one sided as loving my Breton but yeah.Passionfruit GM - PC NA
Godslayer | Dawnbringer1 -
Lord_Eomer✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »I played argonian on PTS as a tank, my healer is argonian too and the passives are actually good for those roles. If you don't like them it's not the passives fault.
If you say so. I disagree and I think a lot of tanks would, too. Their healing passive used to be good for tanks. Now, not so much. Anyway, you played it on PTS. I played it for the last 2 years as my main. I'm not coming from a place of ignorance. I've played the other races, optimized for Stam or magicka and the difference is clear. There is a reason why people min/max with those races and not Argonians. I'm ready to jump on the bandwagon.
There is also a reason we call bretons useless in it's current state on PTS, but i guess you won't get it ^^
Useless? That's a gross exaggeration. On the current PTS. Nothing has changed about them and neither has any other magicka race.
No one uses Bretons in endgame PVE by choice. Sustain is not an issue for magicka or stamina if you have a good group, so all they offer is 10% max magicka. Resistance again is of no consequence, just take my 16.5k life altmer templar who doesn't use channeled focus and doesn't die...
Breton need damage buff, they are left behind any other Magicka DPS race..0 -
hedna123b14_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭Lord_Dexter wrote: »hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »I played argonian on PTS as a tank, my healer is argonian too and the passives are actually good for those roles. If you don't like them it's not the passives fault.
If you say so. I disagree and I think a lot of tanks would, too. Their healing passive used to be good for tanks. Now, not so much. Anyway, you played it on PTS. I played it for the last 2 years as my main. I'm not coming from a place of ignorance. I've played the other races, optimized for Stam or magicka and the difference is clear. There is a reason why people min/max with those races and not Argonians. I'm ready to jump on the bandwagon.
There is also a reason we call bretons useless in it's current state on PTS, but i guess you won't get it ^^
Useless? That's a gross exaggeration. On the current PTS. Nothing has changed about them and neither has any other magicka race.
No one uses Bretons in endgame PVE by choice. Sustain is not an issue for magicka or stamina if you have a good group, so all they offer is 10% max magicka. Resistance again is of no consequence, just take my 16.5k life altmer templar who doesn't use channeled focus and doesn't die...
Breton need damage buff, they are left behind any other Magicka DPS race..
yup0 -
Junkogen✭✭✭✭✭Lord_Dexter wrote: »hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »I played argonian on PTS as a tank, my healer is argonian too and the passives are actually good for those roles. If you don't like them it's not the passives fault.
If you say so. I disagree and I think a lot of tanks would, too. Their healing passive used to be good for tanks. Now, not so much. Anyway, you played it on PTS. I played it for the last 2 years as my main. I'm not coming from a place of ignorance. I've played the other races, optimized for Stam or magicka and the difference is clear. There is a reason why people min/max with those races and not Argonians. I'm ready to jump on the bandwagon.
There is also a reason we call bretons useless in it's current state on PTS, but i guess you won't get it ^^
Useless? That's a gross exaggeration. On the current PTS. Nothing has changed about them and neither has any other magicka race.
No one uses Bretons in endgame PVE by choice. Sustain is not an issue for magicka or stamina if you have a good group, so all they offer is 10% max magicka. Resistance again is of no consequence, just take my 16.5k life altmer templar who doesn't use channeled focus and doesn't die...
Breton need damage buff, they are left behind any other Magicka DPS race..
Maybe they're not supposed to be a magicka DPS race.0 -
Nifty2g✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Lord_Dexter wrote: »hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »I played argonian on PTS as a tank, my healer is argonian too and the passives are actually good for those roles. If you don't like them it's not the passives fault.
If you say so. I disagree and I think a lot of tanks would, too. Their healing passive used to be good for tanks. Now, not so much. Anyway, you played it on PTS. I played it for the last 2 years as my main. I'm not coming from a place of ignorance. I've played the other races, optimized for Stam or magicka and the difference is clear. There is a reason why people min/max with those races and not Argonians. I'm ready to jump on the bandwagon.
There is also a reason we call bretons useless in it's current state on PTS, but i guess you won't get it ^^
Useless? That's a gross exaggeration. On the current PTS. Nothing has changed about them and neither has any other magicka race.
No one uses Bretons in endgame PVE by choice. Sustain is not an issue for magicka or stamina if you have a good group, so all they offer is 10% max magicka. Resistance again is of no consequence, just take my 16.5k life altmer templar who doesn't use channeled focus and doesn't die...
Breton need damage buff, they are left behind any other Magicka DPS race..
Maybe they're not supposed to be a magicka DPS race.
Judging from their passives zos said they are but they are incredibly weakLord_Dexter wrote: »hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »I played argonian on PTS as a tank, my healer is argonian too and the passives are actually good for those roles. If you don't like them it's not the passives fault.
If you say so. I disagree and I think a lot of tanks would, too. Their healing passive used to be good for tanks. Now, not so much. Anyway, you played it on PTS. I played it for the last 2 years as my main. I'm not coming from a place of ignorance. I've played the other races, optimized for Stam or magicka and the difference is clear. There is a reason why people min/max with those races and not Argonians. I'm ready to jump on the bandwagon.
There is also a reason we call bretons useless in it's current state on PTS, but i guess you won't get it ^^
Useless? That's a gross exaggeration. On the current PTS. Nothing has changed about them and neither has any other magicka race.
No one uses Bretons in endgame PVE by choice. Sustain is not an issue for magicka or stamina if you have a good group, so all they offer is 10% max magicka. Resistance again is of no consequence, just take my 16.5k life altmer templar who doesn't use channeled focus and doesn't die...
Breton need damage buff, they are left behind any other Magicka DPS race..
Maybe they're not supposed to be a magicka DPS race.#MOREORBS0 -
Ashamray✭✭✭✭✭Well, 6% and even 4% is too much, I guess... Because we have offensive Altmers, but 1/2/3% would be nice.Boadrig, EU PC
Very Balanced
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Imperial City feedback and suggestions0 -
Nifty2g✭✭✭✭✭
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I'd take 3% and race change about all 4 of my Templars I have...Well, 6% and even 4% is too much, I guess... Because we have offensive Altmers, but 1/2/3% would be nice.
@Wrobel please look into this there is still time before patch goes live
Edited by Nifty2g on July 13, 2016 12:14AM#MOREORBS0 -
Samuel_Bantien✭✭✭Let's just say 7 Champion Points into Spell Reduction is 3.2% cost reduced; Breton's Racial passive is 3% spell reduction.
Now think of their (underwhelming since 1.6) Spell Resistance that can now be completely penetrated by Sharpened Swords or 5 Light Armor passive and not to mention CP penetration can almost completely negate a whole Racial.
Now think of Racial balancing as Altmer's 9% Mana Regeneration which would equate to 24 Champion Points (VS. Breton's 7 Champion Points).
My opinion would be to replace the spell reduction with an "Add 2/3/4% (per point) Spell Critical" because we would not want to homogenize races. I would also buff the Spell Resistance passive to roughly 2500/5000/7500 (and Dark Elves' fire resistance racial to 5000/7500/10000). If neither can happen I would ask for a 9% Spell Cost Reduction to match Altmer's (24 Champion Point) passive.Zaxon
PC NA
Ebonheart:
Magicka Dragonknight: Suedoú
Magicka Nightblade: Suedou
Magicka Sorcerer: Suedoe0 -
Lord_Eomer✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Lord_Dexter wrote: »hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »I played argonian on PTS as a tank, my healer is argonian too and the passives are actually good for those roles. If you don't like them it's not the passives fault.
If you say so. I disagree and I think a lot of tanks would, too. Their healing passive used to be good for tanks. Now, not so much. Anyway, you played it on PTS. I played it for the last 2 years as my main. I'm not coming from a place of ignorance. I've played the other races, optimized for Stam or magicka and the difference is clear. There is a reason why people min/max with those races and not Argonians. I'm ready to jump on the bandwagon.
There is also a reason we call bretons useless in it's current state on PTS, but i guess you won't get it ^^
Useless? That's a gross exaggeration. On the current PTS. Nothing has changed about them and neither has any other magicka race.
No one uses Bretons in endgame PVE by choice. Sustain is not an issue for magicka or stamina if you have a good group, so all they offer is 10% max magicka. Resistance again is of no consequence, just take my 16.5k life altmer templar who doesn't use channeled focus and doesn't die...
Breton need damage buff, they are left behind any other Magicka DPS race..
Maybe they're not supposed to be a magicka DPS race.
May be they are not or supposed to be in ESO?
Well with worst passive, I am hoping for a race change.Edited by Lord_Eomer on July 14, 2016 4:35AM0 -
Junkogen✭✭✭✭✭Lord_Dexter wrote: »Lord_Dexter wrote: »hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »I played argonian on PTS as a tank, my healer is argonian too and the passives are actually good for those roles. If you don't like them it's not the passives fault.
If you say so. I disagree and I think a lot of tanks would, too. Their healing passive used to be good for tanks. Now, not so much. Anyway, you played it on PTS. I played it for the last 2 years as my main. I'm not coming from a place of ignorance. I've played the other races, optimized for Stam or magicka and the difference is clear. There is a reason why people min/max with those races and not Argonians. I'm ready to jump on the bandwagon.
There is also a reason we call bretons useless in it's current state on PTS, but i guess you won't get it ^^
Useless? That's a gross exaggeration. On the current PTS. Nothing has changed about them and neither has any other magicka race.
No one uses Bretons in endgame PVE by choice. Sustain is not an issue for magicka or stamina if you have a good group, so all they offer is 10% max magicka. Resistance again is of no consequence, just take my 16.5k life altmer templar who doesn't use channeled focus and doesn't die...
Breton need damage buff, they are left behind any other Magicka DPS race..
Maybe they're not supposed to be a magicka DPS race.
May be they are not or supposed to be in ESO?
Well with worst passive, I am hoping for a race change.
Breton passives are way better than Argonian passives. I will also be race changing. Tired of the BS.0 -
Nifty2g✭✭✭✭✭
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I also have a dk, nb and sorc... I play every role, what's your point?
You have 4 Templars and play for the Covenant. Biased much?
I also min max so all of my stuff is mostly high elf
But your post is kinda funny#MOREORBS1 -
X3ina✭✭✭That was a long read
I'll try to explain you guys why they don't add MAGIC damage passive to racial or champion points.
PvE: even if 3% looks really low addition it is added to your main spam skills, u literally spam them as a magblade and magplar (jabs, spear, even dark flare will hit over 70-80k for temp/ swallow soul, sap, grasp, merciless proc omg it will insta kill some mobs even in trials +++ both this classes execute is magic) so u litterally about 10-15% dps in general, multiply it on 5-6 (mNBs and mTemplars) in your raid group that will lead to shorter fights which itself leads to higher dps numbers and current trials again will become a cakewalk (at least waaay faster), from this point u will be able to grind loot u desired faster even with bad RNG -> leads to you will complain sooner about the lack of the content.
PvP: main problem is here same as sorc balance, there are poorly designed skills like (soul tether, proxy det, vamp ulti) which combined and multiplied with buffs and the amount of people in a zerggroups will litterally destroy current buggy and laggy PvP. You guys were laughing at a person that wasn't supporting this idea but ... can u imagine what will happen if someone with proxy (even solo) will explode in a big zerg? It will be a step back in evolution (good old days of VD set). And classes that u pointed have their own "class" aoe skills that are omg magic damage aswell.
But for overall i'm agreed that at least one race MUST HAVE that bonus, but i think it should be given to any "useless" halfstamina class like bosmer, orc or nord. Doing this will decrease the difference in dps between min-maxers and casuals, while someone might be interested in creating troll builds (like mSorc WW) that are really able to do at least something.SW GoH > ESO1 -
Nifty2g✭✭✭✭✭
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Summary: let's add magic damage but makes it useless so it doesn't matter.That was a long read
I'll try to explain you guys why they don't add MAGIC damage passive to racial or champion points.
PvE: even if 3% looks really low addition it is added to your main spam skills, u literally spam them as a magblade and magplar (jabs, spear, even dark flare will hit over 70-80k for temp/ swallow soul, sap, grasp, merciless proc omg it will insta kill some mobs even in trials +++ both this classes execute is magic) so u litterally about 10-15% dps in general, multiply it on 5-6 (mNBs and mTemplars) in your raid group that will lead to shorter fights which itself leads to higher dps numbers and current trials again will become a cakewalk (at least waaay faster), from this point u will be able to grind loot u desired faster even with bad RNG -> leads to you will complain sooner about the lack of the content.
PvP: main problem is here same as sorc balance, there are poorly designed skills like (soul tether, proxy det, vamp ulti) which combined and multiplied with buffs and the amount of people in a zerggroups will litterally destroy current buggy and laggy PvP. You guys were laughing at a person that wasn't supporting this idea but ... can u imagine what will happen if someone with proxy (even solo) will explode in a big zerg? It will be a step back in evolution (good old days of VD set). And classes that u pointed have their own "class" aoe skills that are omg magic damage aswell.
But for overall i'm agreed that at least one race MUST HAVE that bonus, but i think it should be given to any "useless" halfstamina class like bosmer, orc or nord. Doing this will decrease the difference in dps between min-maxers and casuals, while someone might be interested in creating troll builds (like mSorc WW) that are really able to do at least something.
With a magic damage passive for Bretons there is a huuuuuuge trade off you are making. Not worth it
For pve magic classes suck, a 3% buff would put them in place but not over th top, again there is a trade off you lose dot damage. It equals out without being op#MOREORBS3 -
Derra✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭As much as i want one - it would be too much of an obvious choice for most magica builds.<Noricum>
I live. I die. I live again.
Derra - DC - Sorc - AvA 50
Derrah - EP - Sorc - AvA 501 -
Derra✭✭✭✭✭
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For pvp it would be 3/4 classes on magica builds.<Noricum>
I live. I die. I live again.
Derra - DC - Sorc - AvA 50
Derrah - EP - Sorc - AvA 500 -
Iove✭✭✭✭It's true, what are Bretons good at now? Altmer have more sustain and damage, Argonians have more healing, Dunmer more damage and fire resist which is strong cause there is so much fire damage still.
Bretons are supposed to be a strong Magicka race so I argue that it is lore friendly to give them some extra magicka (12%?) or magic based damage increase. Surely they were never meant to be the weakest race at spellcasting? Lorewise, they were always strong in magic schools, which is added damage. It baffles me when people say it's lore unfriendly, but are ok that Dunmer have + Frost damage
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