Still no brutality for Bow?

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Vangy wrote: »

@ShadowStarKing @masterbroodub17_ESO

Ok now im truly confused. Initially I thought this thread was about making bow more viable as a ranged DPS option. I don't see what major brutality has to do with it...... Like 99.99% of builds use 1 main DPS weapon and 1 buff bar weapon.... Like taking most stamina toons they use --> 1 buff bar and 1 damage bar. Normally bow bar is for buffs and utility while melee bar is DPS.

You can swap this around to make 2h/DW a buff bar while bow becomes a main bar the same way a DK might use igneous on his bow bar then swap over to his DW to DPS. For bow you can use rally or igneous etc on your melee bar and swap back to bow for DPS.

I think we are all getting sidetracked here. I don't care about major brutality being available to bow cos I can get it from other places no probs. What I AM mildly concerned about is that bow just straight up SUCKS as a main DPS weapon. Im okay with doing maybe 20% less than melee builds but on my stam melee DK I can do 50k DPS with good raid buffs and bow only pulls like 30k..... That's almost a 40% loss in damage.

The single most glaring problem with bow is that snipe is good for opening bursts but falls severely short in terms of a main spammable...

Arguing about major brutality is just useless imo... Heck most end game builds dont even slot major brutality or major sorcery on their bars... They prefer to get it from pots. I know I do. Every time I cast rally that's 1+ seconds of me not doing DPS. Every 1 second my Rapid strikes can do well over 15k crits... That's a 15k damage being lost to my overall damage done every time I cast rally. Over a 1+ minute fight, that's 3 recasts of rally and that's a 45k damage lost... That's 3 times my DPS rotation needs to be held up to buff. That will result in an even larger DPS loss. If you want to min max you are going to use pots period.

The question we should be asking is what needs to be done to make bow a viable single target option. I think magnum shot, one morph can be change to remove all the knockbacks etc while making it a spammable that applies crit damage buff. Coupled with rearming trap (make sure magnum buff and trap buff stackz) and arrow hail + other class based DOTS/poison injection, this could actually make bow pull around 35-40k DPS which I would be VERY happy with. I would also not mind slotting 2h on off bar for major brutality in case im low on potions etc.

These proposed changes will also have minimal effect in PvP. No one is going to use trap in PvP and magnum shot without utility is nothing compared to other spammables like dizzying or RS even with crit damage buff since crit sucks in general in PvP. This also takes NOTHING away from people who like to use one or the other morphs of snipe. One has healing debuff and one has armour debuff and most likely, people would complain if we took one morph away from them.

My humble 2 centz.

Yes it is access to a major brutality buff without the need of a melee weapon is something that would help bow be a stand alone dps weapon.

Although you can use pots and quite frankly you're right they are better for dps parses its just that they have a cost and can all be consumed up.

I personally would go a step further and say bow needs these tweaks:

-Snipe velocity increase.
-Draining shot range increase.
-your proposed magnum shot change.

And boom bow is instantly a better weapon however I don't think the devs will take the time to read threads like these and most of the community will say bow is fine because they get one shoted by snipe gankers.

We're in the minority in this game so the least they can do is allows bow users to get major brutality without having to rely on other weapons as an option in addition to pot use. Since 2h Dw and Bow are dps weapons they all should have major brutality but bow doesn't have it and it seems like bow was meant utility weapon sadly.

Edit: thanks for the insight though its good to hear opinions from othersides

Vythri

I also wish they didn't make Endless Hail physical damage. Why not swap fire with poison and have it be a similar theme to the rest of the bow skills?

masterbroodub17_ESO

Vythri wrote: »

I also wish they didn't make Endless Hail physical damage. Why not swap fire with poison and have it be a similar theme to the rest of the bow skills?

This!

Toc de Malsvi

Vythri wrote: »

I also wish they didn't make Endless Hail physical damage. Why not swap fire with poison and have it be a similar theme to the rest of the bow skills?

This was something that was mentioned in the PTS, I know there were threads asking for a poison morph... This is why you can't make suggestions for MMO's, if you suggest it they will do something different. Just glad a Bow thread didn't immediately drop to the back pages of the forum.

I'd be super happy if they shortened the charge time, flight time, and responsiveness of Bow heavy attacks. I know that I'm probably on an island here but this would make me very happy.

Molten Armaments+medium weave+venom arrow used to be my "spammable" rotation. That was back before Molten took the nerf to only benefit from fully charged heavy attacks, and I didn't have the CP to pull off one shots. My DK archer was much more well rounded back then, didn't have as high burst as now but sustain was solid and survivability/utility was solid.

Vangy

@ShadowStarKing

How will snipe velocity time decrease help? Sorry im confused. Like Snipe has a 1.05 seconds cast time. Lets say it takes about 1.5 seconds to land.

So let's say snipe does 10k damage (for example);

in 10 seconds --> you can cast 10 snipes (ignoring the 0.05s for ez math) --> so in a time frame of 10s + 1.5s (time for last snipe to land) ;
you would do 100k damage in 11.5s = 8.7k DPS.

So if flight time reduced lets say to 0.5s (which is wayyy to fast btw but lets just take it to be true);
in a time frame of 10s + 0.5s;
we would do 100k damge in 10.5s = 9.5k DPS

Its a very marginal increase no? Or did you mean something else entirely?

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Vangy wrote: »

@ShadowStarKing

How will snipe velocity time decrease help? Sorry im confused. Like Snipe has a 1.05 seconds cast time. Lets say it takes about 1.5 seconds to land.

So let's say snipe does 10k damage (for example);

in 10 seconds --> you can cast 10 snipes (ignoring the 0.05s for ez math) --> so in a time frame of 10s + 1.5s (time for last snipe to land) ;
you would do 100k damage in 11.5s = 8.7k DPS.

So if flight time reduced lets say to 0.5s (which is wayyy to fast btw but lets just take it to be true);
in a time frame of 10s + 0.5s;
we would do 100k damge in 10.5s = 9.5k DPS

Its a very marginal increase no? Or did you mean something else entirely?

I meant it for both dps increase and for reliability,

Example(PVE): right now snipe has a cast time of 1.1 secs plus 3 secs if you're at max range to take advantage of long shots passive.

If it crits, it will deal 20K dmg which is good right?
But I could AC Suprise Attack 3 times with LA weaving and if each hit crits for 10K that's about 30k dmg in 4.1 secs. That's pretty significant dmg difference and it's only because the arrow travels slow.

Example 2 (PVP): because of the velocity you have enough time to take defensive actions before snipe hits no one will stand and wait 4 secs to have an arrow hit you and ONE dodge roll is enough to dodge 3 stacked snipes in the air at once.

This is why archers are gankers because you don't expect an arrow to hit you if you don't see it although you can still hear it. And people will justify bow being OP because of this tactic but its the only option for archers atm besides zerg surfing bombars spamming.

Here is my proposal:

-increase velocity of snipe the dmg will need to be adjusted but it will make this skill a sustained dps skill and less than a one shot gank skill. This would lead to less one shot snipes.(plus is ruins muh immersion seeing an arrow arc in the air at a target 7m away from me )

-remove the 'snare' from is. Its really frustrating when trying to kit to be snared while casting. Especially in a game where gap closers can be spammed and snare you on top of it it makes ranged combat impossible

-make it uninterruptedable its dumb that the skill counts as 'spell casting' and is subject to interrupts by crushing shock.

For draining shot it needs one thing:

INCREASE THE RANGE

masterbroodub17_ESO

ShadowStarKing wrote: »

Vangy wrote: »

@ShadowStarKing

How will snipe velocity time decrease help? Sorry im confused. Like Snipe has a 1.05 seconds cast time. Lets say it takes about 1.5 seconds to land.

So let's say snipe does 10k damage (for example);

in 10 seconds --> you can cast 10 snipes (ignoring the 0.05s for ez math) --> so in a time frame of 10s + 1.5s (time for last snipe to land) ;
you would do 100k damage in 11.5s = 8.7k DPS.

So if flight time reduced lets say to 0.5s (which is wayyy to fast btw but lets just take it to be true);
in a time frame of 10s + 0.5s;
we would do 100k damge in 10.5s = 9.5k DPS

Its a very marginal increase no? Or did you mean something else entirely?

I meant it for both dps increase and for reliability,

Example(PVE): right now snipe has a cast time of 1.1 secs plus 3 secs if you're at max range to take advantage of long shots passive.

If it crits, it will deal 20K dmg which is good right?
But I could AC Suprise Attack 3 times with LA weaving and if each hit crits for 10K that's about 30k dmg in 4.1 secs. That's pretty significant dmg difference and it's only because the arrow travels slow.

Example 2 (PVP): because of the velocity you have enough time to take defensive actions before snipe hits no one will stand and wait 4 secs to have an arrow hit you and ONE dodge roll is enough to dodge 3 stacked snipes in the air at once.

This is why archers are gankers because you don't expect an arrow to hit you if you don't see it although you can still hear it. And people will justify bow being OP because of this tactic but its the only option for archers atm besides zerg surfing bombars spamming.

Here is my proposal:

-increase velocity of snipe the dmg will need to be adjusted but it will make this skill a sustained dps skill and less than a one shot gank skill. This would lead to less one shot snipes.(plus is ruins muh immersion seeing an arrow arc in the air at a target 7m away from me )

-remove the 'snare' from is. Its really frustrating when trying to kit to be snared while casting. Especially in a game where gap closers can be spammed and snare you on top of it it makes ranged combat impossible

-make it uninterruptedable its dumb that the skill counts as 'spell casting' and is subject to interrupts by crushing shock.

For draining shot it needs one thing:

INCREASE THE RANGE

Totally with you on the snipe change. As it is right now it only serves ONE purpose in PvP and in PvE it's only just ok for being the "ultimate" bow skill

Baconlad

Hah...stamina templar (not currently...) I use the dog *** out of the bow, and not as a gank. Bow when in PVP is my primary offense, while my two hander is just for executing, with crit rush and rally on the back bar. Bow is SO op even without rally slotted on off bar, poison injection hits like a friggin truck and heavy attacks are my main form of damage...so OP!

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Baconlad wrote: »

Hah...stamina templar (not currently...) I use the dog *** out of the bow, and not as a gank. Bow when in PVP is my primary offense, while my two hander is just for executing, with crit rush and rally on the back bar. Bow is SO op even without rally slotted on off bar, poison injection hits like a friggin truck and heavy attacks are my main form of damage...so OP!

Against potates that don't dodge roll shuffle/block/ shield stack yes.